Mario Sunshine’s Greatest Mystery: Revisiting the Noki Bay Book 20 Years Later
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- čas přidán 9. 04. 2022
- Super Mario Sunshine's greatest mystery, in my opinion, is the book left at the bottom of the sea in Noki Bay's 3rd mission: Red Coins in a Bottle. Why was this book left behind by developers and how did it originally fit into the game? In this video we take a look back at this Super Mario Sunshine cut content to talk about this Mario mystery that has plagued fans for years.
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Written, filmed, and edited by SwankyBox.
Music credits:
Songs from Super Mario Sunshine OST
"Credits Roll" - Super Mario 64
"Noki Bay" - Super Mario Sunshine
"Dusk" - Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door - Hry
What’s your theory about the book?
Hi
First
Awesome video
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Noki's can breathe underwater, so maybe the bottle was always filled with water and this was the old man's secret spot for his diary.
* Nokis. No apostrophe needed.
@@runnersdialzero1244 I was gonna say that their autocorrect might be acting up, but mine autocorrect it to Nokia sooo
oh hi
@@whispycake64 hi
I like that when you mess with the level so that you don't get forced into the bottle, that it replaces every text box with "!!!" as if they're all really shocked that you're here. Even the sign can't contain its surprise
lmao
@@whyareyoureadingthislol yo are Henry stickmin from herny stickmin collection!1!!!!!!11!1
It's the same thing in Pokemon Red/Blue/Yellow if you talk to the Pokemon in Fuchsia City. They will simply say "!".
I always liked to imagine the book is a physical copy of "Mario Story". While a tongue-in-cheek reference to Paper Mario, it could practically be a recycled asset from Luigi's Mansion that was put into Sunshine's engine for testing; it was left in there and forgotten about.
That was also my thought. If we take a closer look into Luigis Mansion we might find this book. It definitely looks like it belongs into Luigis Mansion.
@@waveburner1254 I thought we already looked into other games, but if not this comment might be the catalyst of a giant discovery
@@athing8523 You see, i'm not an expert so i can't say anything for sure. I just can share my guesses and that's it.
@@waveburner1254 precisely, thats the beauty of icebergs imo everyone jumps in to combine ideas it's great.
Herringway made that novel after all.
I like to think that in an alternate universe, the book is part of a simple fetch quest and the episode with the bottle is considered one of the weakest and most pointless ones in the game.
I like to think that in that alternate universe there are videos titled "the unattainable red coin of noki bay bottle "
20 years....
That book is definitely waterlogged by now
There's something interesting you neglected to mention about this mystery - the name of the music that plays in the level is apparently "The Book in the Bottle." (And also for the Sandbird, Pachinko, etc.). I'm not quite sure where this name comes from - maybe a rip from the game files? It seems to be called that everywhere on the internet, anyway; though on the digital Japanese soundtrack released with 3D All Stars it's simply called ヒミツコース 空と海 (Secret Course - Sky and Sea) instead. Is the music named after the book, or was the book placed after the music? Is this the official title of the track, or was it made up by fans?
Interesting! Though if I had to guess, it's a fan name. The amount of effort that went into All-Stars suggests Nintendo wouldn't have changed a soundtrack name.
Not gonna lie, I was waiting for him to mention this.
That's a fan name. The name of the song has constantly been reffered to as Sky and Sea, even back from the Gamecube version of the game. Not once have i been heard it called anything else.
@@drakath5727 It's interesting, right? Several OST uploads to youtube call it "The Book in the Bottle", with the earliest current one seeming to be from 2008. It's also given that name in old forum posts - I found one from 2007. My guess is that a fan ripped the sound files (or recorded them off their TV) but didn't have names for them, so gave them the more interesting names, which then proliferated throughout the internet. The correct name of "Sky & sea" was on the 2005 Nintendo Sound Selection Vol.3: B-Side Music released in Japan. I also found some old forum posts that give both names for the tracks.
This is what it is called in certain spots in the Prima Game Guide! Some of the secret stages have different names too from what i remember
Out of bounds things in Sunshine were always especially intriguing or unnerving to me for some reason.
Out of bounds things in games in general are freaky. I dunno what it is, but there's something up with finding an object or person past where reality ends...
Yeah, it freaks me out as well
yes, like that weird rocked nozzle box inside the bell tower near the fruit marked is one that is realy weird
Saaame
Especially in sunshine.
Racist toad, pianta village swastika. Just to name a few
I have always loved the tropical feel of the game. I loved the water and colorful fruits and earthy look in Noki bay, Gellato beach and the huge watermelons all just felt so full of color and life to me. That's why it's always surprised me to see so many hated it's setting, to me the setting and music made this game special. One of my all time favorites, and nothing ever felt better than beating it's notoriously difficult levels to me. Probably explains why I have become such a fan of difficult games since I was a kid.
In my opinion, there's no way the book would have been collectible (and the door openable) at some point in development. If they had been at some point, they would have been separate objects. If they were then scrapped, there's no reason they would have taken the time to import the 3D models for the door and book into the 3D model for the level, they would have just deleted them. Especially the book since it's not supposed to be normally visible. I'm guessing whoever made the 3D model just put it there to give a hint at some kind of backstory for the ruin, and that's it.
Deleting something is more work than leaving or moving it. If it was scrapped it could've already been present and intended to have a separate trigger ect placed over it.
Yea look at the recent fnaf game, if I’m not wrong the game game out ridiculously big due to leaving unused assets in. Like complete floors and all the objects just left there rather than deleting.
Thanks for covering this Swanky, This game has been with me my entire life, and the book was a major part of my childhood. I remember scouring the internet trying to find more info about it
Can't believe me and my favorite game are gonna be 20 this year
NQue's sister here, I'm the one who initially planted the seed of wonder in his head when we saw videos online about this very topic. Very fond memories of trying to figure out what the hell it might mean. I only ever managed to clip inside that structure once.
Nice! Happy early birthday!
I wish I were still that young.
@@Monarchofmonarch 2nd game for me, I played OOT first
I’d like to think the book is a notebook on native or alien fauna for Isle Delfino. You had to unlock the door and retrieve the book in order to find out what is wrong with the eel in the abyss of Noki Bay.
The notorious rush in releasing sunshine has had so many effects on the game, I’d be surprised if this wasn’t supposed to be something more
Where no lore exists, the fandom shall create it!
Clearly, the door and book are part of the level geometry because minerals in the water have calcified them, fusing them to the surfaces around them.
From a story standpoint as opposed to a mission one, maybe the book was a compilation of Noki Bay's royal kings who's resting place you infiltrate in the episode beforehand? Maybe the old noki was planning to give you the book, and share some knowledge with you as a reward for cleaning their waters, only to find out they were in fact NOT clean after defeating Gooper Blooper yet. Maybe as he was looking into it and discovered the monster known as Eely-Mouth below, he ultimately decided Mario was still too new and strange to the area to be trusted with all these secrets and history of Noki Bay, and so hid the book behind that locked door in the bottle. But at the same time, Mario did prove himself by taking care of two menaces that were in the bay, so the old noki figures he'll pop the question and ask for help one more time with ol' Eely. Help in the form of an underwater practice run free of the threat of being eaten by a large eel. Maybe that's why he's fishing in the bottle as the level begins: he's swishing the water and coins around inside to make it the ideal, underwater test for Mario. He might have planned to give Mario the book for real once Eely-Mouth was gone, but senility and forgetfulness got the better of him, and he never got around to it.
...I know there's the glaring issue of 'Why would he set up a red coin trial in the bottle where he's trying to hide this top secret book where Mario could find it?' Well, think about it. The old noki IS right outside there, watching over Mario like a hawk as he moves around in the bottle, and with the door locked and water pressure perhaps creating a vacuum seal, the chances of Mario finding the book are slim to none... not to mention the urgency of the polluted seas. NO ONE should be in them right now, but there's no guarantee some brave or foolish nokis aren't down there swimming about and could find the book if he threw it in the water, or it would wash up somewhere else. He's too old to climb the cliffs and hide the book, and can't trust the shady boat renting tanooki or even his grandson to hide it up there, so he doesn't have too much of a choice.
Mario needs his underwater practice for the Eely-Mouth fight, he can't swim in the polluted water, and there's really no where else to hide the book on such short notice, and in such dire times.
Maybe the book was for a mission to collect it then bring it back to the old man? but is unknown, maybe a beta build having a mission related to it could finally explain things
I really am certain that this mission was originally a swimming training mission and all you needed to do was get the book. However, that is basically just dropping down and grabbing the object and doesn't teach the player how to swim around properly, so it was changed to red coins.
No
I refuse to believe it has been 20 years
2002 to 2022 that’s 20 years meh boi
I aged by a thousand years when I saw it say 20 years ago. It doesn't feel that long ago
20 years.. wow I never imagined I’d feel old!! I think the book might’ve had stories or secrets about the old guy, notice how there’s the grandson at the beginning of some episodes as his disciple or something of the sort. There’s definitely history and knowledge written in the book/diary and perhaps he wanted to pass it down to his grandson asap (hence the coughing due to illness? upon entering Noki Bay) & that’s why the elder sends Mario down the bottle to retrieve the book, but instead there’s too much buildup of sea residue due to the long time it’s been in there, therefore Mario can’t get it but a mission of coins appears instead and the Shine Sprite is what he gets out of there as an alternative. Just a theory! As always, thanks for making this, I enjoy your Mario Sunshine videos they’re always a treat and definitely my favorite! 😊
For those of you wondering about the bouncing thing in the window of Isle Delfino plaza, it's a shine sprite when it has not been collected yet. It looks like it's bouncing up and down due to the heat in the air.
I just checked my copy and while I have the sprite, I am a good distance away from it but the wavey heat is making it look like it's bouncing.
What if the player was meant to complete a puzzle to drain the water and collect the book? Maybe they would need to do something to allow the water to drain, and they are timed by their air meter which can be increased with coins. After draining the water, they will open the door and the book will teleport them back to the surface where the old Noki can be seen with the book next to him and he will give you the shine.
I wonder if it was scrapped because they thought the original idea was too complicated if the player is simply trying to learn how the underwater mechanics work, then apply those mechanics to a boss that just requires a bunch of hovering. It’s also possible that it was too hard for the game to transition to being underwater and outside of water without switching areas (because the underwater mechanics in that level are different than normal water mechanics), or perhaps something else that has to do with coding complications in underwater levels. Seems less likely, but it’s possible.
Maybe the beta version of the geometry for the original mission had the book and door attached to them so the devs would know where to put the real ones later. After scrapping it, they left the same beta geometry in the level, maybe redid them a little, and used it as the structure for the red coin mission.
you're a genius 👏
At 3:40, technically yes it can't be opened, but Tas only exploits, you can *technically* open the door.
It requires a LOT of explanation, on something I don't understand much of, but basically, BLJing combined with camera fuckery, and using the invisible cap location, you can force your way into the door, but again, its more TAS stuff, and only possible for a machine, not a human to do at all (unless someone went through the effort to try and do that, then I question your sanity).
Other wise, this was an interesting return and take on an old video game mystery!
Super Mario Sunshine: July 2002, Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door: July 2004, I thought the door and the book was a little easter egg for the next Paper Mario game they were working on. The book was a reference to the Japanese name "Mario Story" and how the characters look like they come from a story book, and the door is meant to reference the Thousand Year door. Isn't that what it was decided it was?
This is what I thought as well!
I had just posted something discussing that one in the same theory on a different thread here! but I was having problems REMEMBERING it and posted that it was theorized to be the entrance to the paper mario universe, but it was later debunked and was suggested to be the old nokis journal... well lol, seems my memory was WAY off the mark! but wasn't that one also suggested? dunno... I kinda remember hearing that one to be a theory too. but I also remember yours. . . odd, maybe they were BOTH floating around you tube theory's at the time and I guess I must have heard them both or something.
Now this is why I'm still subscribed. More like this!!!
I've never actually heard of this mystery, this is interesting!
5:02 I looked away and thought he said "this f*ckin door". I did quite a large double take
Cool to see a video on this subject, I still think about this book on occasion.
1:03 oh christ, I think that realization just threw my back out. I need to lie down for a bit.
HAPPY Super Mario Sunshine 20th Anniversary
Something that just came to mind is that some of the secret courses have secondary shines that have to do with 8 red coins. Usually, you beat the course as needed to progress to the next shine in the game, but you can head back there to get a second optional shine.
Perhaps the current version of the bottle being a red coin mission was actually meant to be the secondary version. But perhaps they thought it worked out better than the main version, or the main version didn't get made in time. Or perhaps they thought that since, unlike the other secret courses, this one can't be assessed in any other stage and would need to be selected on its own, then there was no way to have 2 versions be selectable without the red coins permanently overriding the first version. It would also be unlikely for the player to choose this level again expecting it to be different.
So then between the 2 versions, they decided that they could only have 1 and thought the red coin version worked best. Plus, the game had a tight schedule so they probably couldn't work around this issue to include both in time before release.
Swanky, I love Noki Bay. What a beautiful surprise in my feed.
I'm pretty sure the song that plays on this level is called the book in the bottle so its safe to say that getting the book was the original goal
Every player: Come on open the DOOR AHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This one of the OG mysteries that got me into gaming mysteries 😭 I miss watching these old videos when I was young af lmao
Damn this game is 20 years old. Does not feel like that in the slightest. Time really doesn't get lost when it's all recorded so well
I never noticed until way too late that Noki is a play on 'gnocchi'.
I had no idea but now that I do I find it utterly fascinating
I gotta be honest, the title and intro portion made me think we had the answer to this book, but then the rest of your video just repeats what we already know or have seen.
1:12
Charles Martinet, you're a legend!
Hold the torch up high
We celebrate your career!
And even though an era comes to an end,
All the hearts your voice has touched
Will still give a hearty cheer!
Awesome video
0:30 wait i didnt know it was exactly 24 years and 1 month later. I knew that the 2401 meant 25th of june. You get that by doing 2+4+0+1 and 24+01. This was planned so well
I don't think I ever knew about the book until this video.
I just noticed that the book has the same texture as the sand layers in the bottle. Nifty.
HOW HAVE I NOT KNOWN ABOUT THIS OMGGGGGG
Thank you for the video.
😮 this game is 20 years old?!? Man I remembered back when I was a kid and played it back then in the early to mid 2000s when times were much simpler.
i love ur videos man
All so very interesting and mysterious.
The movement in Mario sunshine ironically feels like water
I guess even the most blank book has the most intriguing histories
Mario from sunshine: struggles to open door.
Mario from 64: yahooo ya ya ya yayayayayayayayahooo
Maybe the ruins at the bottom had more built on top of it originally and there was a sort of maze you had to go through to get to the bottom. They might have scrapped it, removed the top portion of the ruins and kept the bottom. The game was rushed at the end, so I wouldn't be surprised if they forgot about the book or didn't have time to render a new 3D object in its place.
Idk why but the book gives me MYST vibes. It could just me an easteregg nodding at CYAN. Would also make sense in the whole "world inside a world" thing that0s going on with the bottle itself.
It could be some kind of Easter-egg or a reference to something...or a secret deliberately hidden by a developer as a sort of "signature." I dunno.
And that's why trying to peel sticky wet pages off of each other will always be one of my Pixel Portals.
I could only assume, given that it was at some point meant to be collected that it contained information necessary to Noki's plot. Maybe it was information that would help clean the bay. It's very odd considering that the only way to end a level in the final game is by collecting a shine sprite. Maybe Mario would simply interact with the book by pressing B, and after reading the text a shine would appear and in the next level the information would be given to the old man.
I never noticed that door up until now
I’m trying to figure out what this game was I played as a kid, I remember this game where I was playing as wario or maybe Mario/Luigi(think it was wario for some reason) riding a jet ski thru open water? And would go thru these portal things like thru time maybe like whirlpools in the water? Pretty sure The jet ski part was limited timed to do or collect something or find the whirlpool portals, and I think that cloud wizard looking character was in the top right corner holding the timer??? Can’t remember what system it was on cause I had so many growing up they all blend together in my memories, but if any of that sounds familiar please let me know what game & system it was!! Pretty sure it was around when I got Mario paint maybe? I think it was Mario is Missing(or something like that like a spin off Mario game) but don’t see the jet ski part when I look at clips of that game, and other parts of it don’t look familiar but really can’t can’t remember to be sure… Hell it could be Mario sunshine even idk is there a jet ski part in it? Please let me know!
That's Mario's Time Machine. The jet skiiing portions are the segments when you're actually travelling through time.
@@Showsni omg yes that was it! Lol wow what a crappy looking game, all I could remember was the riding around on the jet ski part looks like for good reason, you never really do anything else from what I just saw looking it up on here! always wondered what game that was! Takes me back! Thanks!
I got it in my head that it was a scrapped teaser for paper Mario and the thousand year door
This is literally the first time I've ever heard about this book, lol
It would be cool to see a video of someone exploring around Noki Bay in mission 3 and see if there’s anything odd that the player would otherwise not be able to see due to being forced into the bottle at the beginning of the level.
Even if there isn’t anything out of the ordinary other than the NPCs having broken dialogue, it would still be cool to explore the level. Maybe collect the shine from the golden bird or see if the 100 coin shine is displaced like it is in Episode 8. Are there even any coins in the level at all?
The book resembles a copy of the vintage cookbook by Maitre Delish. Zess T. the chef talked about this vintage book in Paper Mario 2: The Thousand Year Door.
more sunshine please!
Okay analysis video! Tragically, we may never know what is in the pages of that book, nor know what the purpose of it was. We can speculate, but never anything concrete, unless some new official content is released.
I can't remember if you did a video about the mystery of the secret soccer ball hidden somewhere in this game. Tetrabit Gaming said that Nintendo wouldn't make another Super Mario Strikers game.
Maby it was to get the book but the water drains then a boss pulls you out and you have to fight it to grow back and get a shine.
I think one of the rumor's I heard when I was young I think was mentioned by chuggaconroy was that maybe it was a reference to the cookbook you find in the boo mansion in paper Mario thousand year door by rolling under a slot in the wall. I don't remember the reasoning might go try to look it up.
I find it a possible idea of a hint to paper Mario ttyd that came out 2 years after sunshine. as the whole game uses book from the beginning for transitions and intro to main save.
Hey Swanky, would you be interested in making a discussion video about the mysteries surrounding Rosalina's identity, the two luigis, and the 120 star secret ending cutscene from Super Mario Galaxy?
Around April of 2002 this game released, wow that's long time 10 years
This is one of my favorite games of all time and I did not know about this until today. I’m ashamed 😔. I just thought it was a wall at the end of the corridor. Never noticed it was a door. 🤦🏻
After my n64 i got a ps2. While im glad about that, i still am sad not being able to play sunshine when it was nee
Lol I'm like "it's nothing, just let it go man” 😂
I think the reason the old Noki is fishing in the bottle is simply because that’s just his neutral animation and the bottle just happened to be placed right there. When he speaks to Mario, he turns a little so the rod is no longer in the bottle. But man, that bottle must have disintegrated by now. It’s been underwater in that bottle for 20 years plus however many years ago in canon that Noki put it there.
I think that perhaps the bottle was a training area of sorts for using the double jet underwater, like you do to clean the eel's teeth, also in Noki Bay. Maybe that mechanic was originally going to be spread through the game but was sidelined. That's my theory. The book was probably the goal of a scrapped mission. Get rhe old fisherman his journal, you get a sprite. Who knows though.
I love you swanks great channel you and beta 64 are great creatures all together
I used to think that the bottle in the sky was from a very old diorama made very early in Super Mario Sunshine development like reimagining the secret aquarium box in the sky from Super Mario 64. The book behind the door? I don’t even know. This old diorama was repurposed into an 8 red coin level leaving the book behind the door to guessing its true purpose other than being from an old diorama
Was the Super Mario 64 secret aquarium in the sky supposed to be like a diorama too? Look in through the windows into an aquarium.
Another way to look at this whole thing is like a ship in a bottle. You’re supposed to look at it from multiple angles and appreciate all the little details on the ship.
The book reminds me of Luigi’s diary in paper mario
I wonder if the book has the rest of the Mount Chiliad mural?
I like to think the journal was going to contain the secret of Eely Mouth. The Noki Elder needs you to retrieve it help figure out what is going on with the pollution. From reading that is what makes him figure how to solve the problem my sending Mario down again to clean the Eel's teeth.
Yeah, I remember that Easter Egg. Biggest mystery in the game.
That 3D model is not merged. It might be on a game object level, but geometry wise that book has a face at the bottom and the door has side faces, plus the interior of the room behind the door is modeled.
I've heard we were supposed to obtain the book for the old man originally, but the idea was scrapped, and they never took it out the ruins.
This was the first video game mystery I ever discovered. I was 7
Three possibilities:
1) The remnant of a scrapped gameplay idea
2) Some dev trolling us (who’s watching this video with a massive ‘Troll face’)
3) The devs tried to sneak in some additional plot, but Miyamoto found it before they went Gold and sent them to the dungeons before they could completely remove it.
I reckon the book was meant to be taken to then record your progress in, quests done, stars gathered, similar to jimmeny's journal in KH
I've got an idea for a mystery: The paper airplane on top of Ikana Castle in Majora's Mask.
I can’t wait until we can wipe memories , so I can play through sunshine again for the first time .
I think i know what the book is Swankybox, i think It's an easter egg that teased the next game which was "Paper Mario" I mean, it looks alot like the book Neville the Ghost was reading in Luigi's Mansion..
i was told that the presence of the book come from asset that been reused, this structure was copied from a previous game and pasted to sunshine game, the book just happened to have been copied during the process
was this is not true ??
unless you were told that by an actual game developer for sunshine, it's impossible to have it confirmed. but that is my guess
@@heathersmith4042 it was a random post on french forum that i forgotten the name today
As a kid for some reason I thought it was the paper Mario TTYD book. Or I thought it was related to paper Mario somehow. Yea I know that doesn’t make a lot of sense but it’s the thought process I had. I didn’t really think about it much though.
4:41 how do you do this we're you can look in the files of games and mess with models
if you looked at the ruin sides, there an simiulat outline that been filled in witch is very odd
"Something the boomer can give you"
My theory about the book is that you have to collect multiple of them originally instead of red coins
Good point!
texture looks v similar to the door? I bet it's just there as a leftover from making the level.
ie
1 - let's put a door here
2 - it needs to be kinda ruined
3 - let's used that cool book we didn't use
4 - moves book down
5 - copies textures
6 - doesn't delete book because it's not needed anymore and no one can see it
This literally came out when I was taking a break from playing sunshine for my review of it. I didn’t even know of the book’s existence until now. My video for sunshine is gonna take a little while for it to come out but if anyone is interested, check it out my Mario 64 review!
YOO NEW VID
Whoa, pause at 3:21 Random video to point this out, but I just noticed it here. Is it just me, or does that carpet in Luigi's Mansion have the Sheikah symbol/some other markings from Ocarina of Time on it?