Alternative to Rocker Lockers. D.I.Y. Method To Reduce Ticking Of Harley Twin Cam Motors.
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- čas přidán 1. 09. 2020
- Most folks know about the annoying ticking sound of Harley Twin Cam motors. One of the sources of noise is from the rocker shafts pivoting while in operation. The shafts repeatedly rotate back and forth until they hit the limit stops on the bracket bolt which results in a "ticking" noise. Rocker Lockers is a product that is designed to stop this noise and they work very well. However, I posted this video to show that there is a pretty simple D.I.Y. method to stop this source of unwanted ticking that I thought I'd share with you.
There are two major advantages for Rocker Lockers, yes they lock the shaft, but just as important is they center the rocker arm assembly plate where it was designed to be, every time. Without the inserts there is as much as 1/8 inch play on the bolts, the plate can rotate as it is being installed. This can cause the push rods to scrape on the tubes, or cause the rocker arm foot to be repositioned on the valve stem causing multiple wear patterns on the foot. (We have seen this on many 100k motors.) It puts the push rod at a slight angle changing the geometry of the rocker arm, and can cause the rocker arm to move back and forth if not properly shimmed. In the past we noticed that the majority of this top end tick was after the top end work had been done and contribute it to the placement of the plate creating additional angle on the push rod and lateral movement in the rocker arms.
The advice I would give if using this fix is to be aware of the placement of the plate during installation.
That's some good thinking, Harley is looking for people like you.
Smarter than the average bear! Definitely easier than the rocker lockers and I already have the set screws. Appreciate it. No more sewing machine for me
Nice job. You're right about WHEN, not IF you have to go back in. I have pulled out and reused Rocker Lockers with a puller I fashioned on a lathe out of a Gr8 bolt and a sleve. Your method is one and done.
Good idea, but after riding HD for over 30 years I just look at the engine noises they make and they all do through the years is just HD music. And in this case HD doesn't mean High Definition! But seriously I feel with the design of this engine if you try to tighten things up to much one could be looking for problems. This engine, even though they have made updates is basically the same design from the old Knucklehead just variations. And it needs to run more loose in order to allow for it inherent vibrations and to allow for proper lubrication being air cooled. I believe you tighten up to much to quiet them down and you Open more problems down the road. I love my HD music! But you did have a good idea and put a lot of thought and I will give you a thumbs up for that! Carry on!
I tend to agree with your comment about H-D engine design and the inherent sounds that it makes.
Do the proper maintenance and a Harley engine will last a long time. Just like a noisy diesel engine.
If you want a quiet motorcycle, buy a Goldwing.
Great solution for those of us overseas. Rocker Lockers are incredibly expensive after you factor-in their crazy overseas shipping costs and import taxes (which include tax on the cost of shipping as well as the product itself). This, on the other hand, is a $5 fix. As an aside, I seem to spend a lot of time chasing-down this or that rattle on my Harley. Might be time to just call it a day and buy something else.
Maybe a video showing us how you did it 🤷🏻♂️ this clacking makes me cray cray
Very interesting and thanks for the video. I just came across your channel in my feed actually and I'm happy to support your efforts and those of other fellow moto content creators. I look forward to seeing and hearing more from you in the future, keep up the great work and ride safe out there.
Well done lad! Highly appreciative of this video
The problem with this method is the set screw will upset the metal shaft and prevent the shaft from sliding out easily and will scrap the very fine machined bore. The only way to use this procedure safely is to grind a small flat were the set screw contacts the shaft.
That is a very well thought out mechanical stand point, thanks
Excellent idea! Thanks for sharing this video 👍
Was thinking about rocker lockers but I'm definitely going this route now!!! Great idea and I'm stealing it lol
I love the idea. The set screw is obviously hardened steel, and the rocker platform looks to be fairly soft aluminum. Would it be better to add a helicoil insert?
I like it better than the rocker locker. Thanks for the info.
Couldn’t you just spin the shaft 180 and grind a new smaller crescent groove, trial and error till it’s a snug fit.
Now there is an idea. Just make a flat on the shaft that lines up with the set screw hole.
You could also put a 1/8 inch set screw first, then a 3/8 or 1/2 inch on top to insure a double lock so vibration won't loosen the screw.
Very clever...I like it!
Your method sounds great but, my thoughts are… when/while the engine is running it’s gonna turn and twist the rocker shaft,… causing the set screw to run against the shaft causing metal shavings., the brass inserts are mailable allowing wear not like steel on steel,… idk I like your design but I like the brass inserts… let me know how it holds up and runs
Genius, very nice.
Hello, very clever idea and solution! One concern that comes to mind is IF that set screw does work loose, as it releases from the shaft, the hardened shaft could pivot/vibrate and do battle with the tip of that set screw - shredding off hardened metal particles that could escape into the engine. With the brass rocker lockers, if the shaft has any remaining free play, the slight ticking action could dimple the sleeve and over time release brass particles. So in both cases, it’s hyper-important to achieve zero free play. I suppose the stock design, with shaft ticking against the bolt is not ideal either! It must have been a design decision in favor of loose fit = faster install/assembly at the factory.
Theres no way it would be able to completely fall out the way he did it...
Thanks that is another great idea
If the set screw needs to be long enough to prevent falling out, it doesn’t sound like there’s a lot of confidence the set screw won’t come loose. If it does vibrate loose, the original purpose is defeated. I like the brass sleeves better.
Go back into the video and find where Tim mentions "BLUE THREAD LOCKER". That screw is going nowhere.
Great idea!
Tim Stone... I have installed rocker lockers on several bikes now and sometimes they work to eliminate the noise and sometimes they don't.. In the cases where it doesn't the noise is probably coming from the rockers moving back and forth on the shaft.. I don't like using shims on them because unless it's likely to wear out from metal on metal friction hardened steel. Definitely don't want metal shavings floating around in the oil. I like your idea with the set screw in the bottom but my only concern is does that end of the shaft need to float as well? If not it seems like Harley would design the shaft to be a press fit into the rocker plate and still allow the rocker to float.. Just my thoughts.
my rocker shafts are a press fit. 108,000 miles Maybe you need new bushings
That side of the rocker shaft is held in place by the bolt going through it. Locking it down with a set screw just keeps it from rotating. The other end on the other hand needs to expand with heat. That's why he mentioned doing this mod on the same side as Harley.
I'll take you up on that idea 👍
Way cool idea I'll give it a go
Super idea, very clever, just i am asking you, it will be a problem if i will use both methods rocker locker and your idea with screw?To be more safe, what is your opinion.I am asking you this because i done allready last week puting rocker locker and still make noise.
Good one.
Did you have to drill and tap for the set screw? Or is that a pre-existing tapped hole?
That’s what I was wondering, did you ever get any clarification?
Brilliant
Seems like a sound idea,if you have the tools to do. I’m one who has so I may give it a try. Thank you!
Why won’t anyone make a bolt that is shouldered larger with the same length, thread, and head as factory?
Thats exactly what I think. Shaft as thick as the rocker locker sleeve until thread portion, just slightly shorter so it doesn't bottom out. It's pretty easy to make a bolt on a lathe. Are they even high tensile?
Just watched this again. So I have an idea. Drill your hole for the rocker arm shaft set screw with the shaft in place. Let the drill bit hit the shaft. It will leave a mark. Then pull out the shaft and grind a flat where the drill bit hit. That should stop all possible movement of the shaft. What do you think?
You could go one further and drill your hole all the way through the shaft and out the other end, and pin the whole lot.
@@chrisjohns9631 That is a whole lot more work. Not to mention the possibilities of broken drill bits. Aluminum is easy to tap. Hardened steel is not so easy.
I have a small one man shop & have installed rocker stoppers on several bike & every one I do I'm thinking what a pain these are gonna be to get out of I ever have take apart ! That is a killer idea which I'm gonna start using right away ! Any thought s on an Evo motor my every day ride a 91 FXR is doing that ticking as soon as it gets warmed up ! Was looking at some Evo rocker boxes it could be done but no safety like the twin cam the set screw could fall out ! Maybe use red loctite !?
If you use red loctite,you will have to apply a lot of heat to that screw before you can get it out. Blue thread locker will work just fine.
Smart!
Ok, how about a hard plastic sleeve?
If this is such a common problem WHY hasn’t Harley tightened these rockers over the years???? If it was an issue I believe they would of corrected it on later models.
cool idea, but why not wrap some shim brass around the bolt shank?
Sounds like a good idea too!
Would a screw that is 3/8 inch long work?
Outstanding idea thanks!
CB antennas have used those for years
Is the hole existing or do you have to drill and tap?
Drill and tap
Where did you pick up the threaded Allen screw from?
Local Lowes or home depot
Are you in wisconsin and want to do mine? Lmao, the tick on my bike is obnoxious.
Well done, But being an Engineer it doesn't matter where to put the set screw as long as there is a counter bore for the set screw to lock into on the rocker shaft itself also proper location of the set screw from the bottom was excellent choice as the material is plenty to drill and tap a small set screw. Preassembling the rocker shaft assembly with 2 set screws one at each end with blue locktite drill and tap set screws holes then put a slight counter sink hole in the rocker shaft it self I did it to my 99 dyna and it worked perfectly problem solved no more ticking S&S ROLLER ROCKERS AND NEW ROCKER SHAFTS S&S 89CC HEADS S&S 4INCH BIG BORE PISTONS S&S 585 EASY START CAMS S&S LIFTERS S&S QUICKEE PUSH RODS S&S CAM PLATE AND OIL PUMP GEAR DRIVE I HAVE BEEN BUILDING AND MODIFYING MOTORCYCLES FOR 38 YEARS AND I AM ALSO A BMW/MERCEDES TECH AND A LOCKSMITH WITH A BA IN MECHANICAL ENGINEERING I HAVE SPENT MANY YEARS RESTORING WW2 FIGHTER PLANES NOT A BRAGGING RIGHTS THING BUT I HAVE LEARNED A WEALTH OF KNOWLAGE BY WORKING ON SOME OF THE MOST EXOTIC MACHINES OF THE 20TH CENTURY GOOD JOB MY MAN EXCELLENT APPROCH AND EXECUTION KNEES IN THE BREEZE
What about drilling and tapping box and shaft put a small bolt in there! Or small hole solid through it and put it roll pin in it
Hi Tim! Clever idea! How does the engine sounds now? Is it still necessary to shim rocker arms?
Engine sounds pretty good (but still room for improvement). The pivoting shafts is only one of the sources of noise from the rockers IMO. Removing excessive end play (shimming) and worn bushings are also noise contributors IMO.
O hell yea that’s a good idear
tHE SHAFTS IN MY 2003 WITH 109,000 MILES are not loose in the rockers. (more like a press fit) If your shaft slides back and forth you most likely have a bad fit.
HE'S TALKING ABOUT the shaft being loose in the pedestal, not in the rocker itself.
Ticking is on cold bike or hot bike?
Rocker lockers are only $25, just invest in something that's proven to work. They also can be reused, you don't have to buy new ones.
As I said its a good product. Not sure how you press them out for reuse but maybe you're correct.
I would guarantee this to work and has a fail safe. Cant fall out.
@@timstone1744 If you cut the slant off the plastic dowel that comes with the kit you can hammer them out.
$46 in Australia, not worth it when there are alternatives.
Just my 2 cents,. If Harley engineers would really do any work,. They could make the other end of the shafts square... But that would be too easy right ??
Giving extra work to Chinese parts makers must be their thing !
That would solve the "issue" of ticking but cost more money to do. This ticking is annoying, not an actual issue that is causing harm. Then you would also have the problem of locking the shaft in place unless you keep the bolt going through the same hole and notching the shaft anyway.
I’m trying to do end play on 1997 Harley sportster 1200 amdseems none load side is same on both witch is the valve side because that’s the side the feeler Guage slides down next to it. Aka it’s not a twin can it has 4 cams. Also is the spec still .003 min cold on my bike ??and does that seem correct that none load side is both same as in valve side.?
Don't forget the lateral play that will require shimming the non load side of the rocker arm. If your using rocker lockers...you're gonna be shimming.
Ok, this locks the shaft... but your tapping that plate and making more mods than what the rocker lockers require which both locks that shaft and narrows the bolt hole, just seems like overthinking IMO.
You don't have to have those lockers press can they drop right in with your finger and you can take them right back out with your finger by just turning over the plate you're telling people that they have to be pressed in and that's not true at all they just drop right in place
I've done many original Rocker lockers. None have just dropped in. Maybe you purchased a Imported knock off brand.
@@steveg8375 hey Steve this is Chris Collins I don't even remember making that post there's another guy on here his name is Chris Cummings ings maybe it was him anyway just thought I'd drop you a line
What crappy engineering from HD....again.
Too much work. Rocker Lockers are easy, cheap, and they can be removed and reused in most cases.
This isn’t a bad idea, at all but I’d rather just grind the “crescent moon” around the entire circumference of the shaft… then it can spin all it wants
Problem is you'll wear out your rocker shaft pedestals as they get no lube. Then your rocker will walk all over your valve stem, eventually getting so bad that the rocker will chew up the valve.