Amadeus | One Fatal Flaw
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- čas přidán 18. 11. 2020
- (SPOILERS FOR AMADEUS [1984])
This series aims to discuss films that I argue suffer tremendously from a single writing/directorial decision. That is not to say that it is the ONLY flaw in the entire film nor do I mean to say said flaw makes the film a complete and utter crap shoot, but rather the particular flaw significantly reduces the quality of the film and/or prevents it from being far more effective and/or thematically brilliant than it already may be.
On today's episode, we will discuss Milos Forman's 1984 adaptation of Peter Schaffer's stage-play, Amadeus!
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VIDEOS REFERENCED
F. Murray Abraham wins Best Actor at the 1985 Academy Awards: • F. Murray Abraham winn...
MUSIC
"Symphony No.25 In G Minor, K. 183, 1st Movement" performed by Sir Neville Marriner, Academy of St. Martin in the Fields / written by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart / from the Amadeus Original Motion Picture Soundtrack
"Requiem, Confutatis" performed by Neville Marriner / written by Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart / from the Amadeus Original Motion Picture Soundtrack - Krátké a kreslené filmy
I'm a history buff, but I can forgive the inaccuracies for two reasons:
1) While not ACCURATE, it's AUTHENTIC. The costumes, the way Mozart behaved, the little details like Salieri's sweet tooth and Emperor Josef saying there are too many notes; it perfectly captures the time period.
2) The story is told by a senile old man, so of course he's going to say certain things.
I personally love when historical and “true story” films stretch the truth a bit through unreliable narration.
I believe there’s a scene at the end of The Social Network where Rashida Jones’ character mentions that when there’s emotional testimony, she assumes that most of it is exaggerated and the rest is perjury. I love that line because it clarifies to the audience that much of what we’ve seen is colored by the perspectives of Mark Zuckerberg’s rivals. The film is not trying to recreate the actual person. Rather it’s depicting the impression he’s left on the people he’s betrayed, with an emphasis on the darker parts of his personality that drove him to do so. It’s a good example of how diversion from reality can sometimes say a lot more than following reality closely.
Dear Pyro, I like your use of the words Accurate and Authentic. Normally, I would think they mean the same thing, but here accurate means that the words and actions are literally true, while authentic means the work gives a true feeling of the look and atmosphere of the times. I do not agree, however, that Salieri is senile. In his conversation with the priest, Salieri is quite lucid and open. While at times, there is subtle humor in his words, what comes across is a person who is bitter and angry, with both God and how his life has turned out. He refuses to confess and in his final scene hails the mediocrity all around him. I do not see him as senile. I see him as a broken person for whom God is a cheat and life has no meaning. Perhaps being senile would have been more merciful.
I don't understand why people have to "forgive the inaccuracies". It's a play inspired by another play called Mozart and Salieri back in 1830. It's like making a drama about King Arthur and go like, "Oh, but that's not the real King Arthur." Like for real?
I mean if you didn't get it Saleri is an unreliable source for the story since he is in a mental hospital therefore it doesn't have to be accurate because in Saleri eyes this is what happened and this is how he imagined Mozart to be
Maybe this could be interpreted as Salieri looking up to Mozart and he twisted his memories in his old age to express his regret and guilt of not making Mozart's music and him more popular, hence "killing" Mozart
So this whole movie and all the jealousy was just all in Salieri's head
I'm 20 years old, so I've only seen the director's cut. Literally almost no one on my age has watched this film. I only saw it because my piano teacher recommended it. It has powerful messages like an ancient allegorical short tale, but with the production of a full blown opera. Gorgeous scenes, great acting, and probably the best music a movie can have (I've singed Mozart's requiem in a choir and is quite the experience!).
I don't care it's historically inaccurate, it's a movie that wants to pass those messages; it could do it at any setting, but chose this great one. I'm a musician myself, and villainery aside, I can relate to Salieri best. I always saw this movie as a lesson about mediocrity. I could never be as good as some musicians I've met, and I'm just mediocre relative to them. If I only knew my work, I would be very happy, but knowing I can't achieve the beauty people like Mozart have, I get somewhat envious. Like movie's Salieri, he is a great composer, but not quite as good as Mozart. And all the feelings he gets become relatable. Theology makes all of this even greater and you can apply it to anything, not only music. So, the last line of the film is like a catharsis to me, it's like Salieri breaks the fourth wall and absolves me, you, anyone that can feel mediocre in front of a great master. It's like he's giving me a reason to strive towards what I like, to not get envious, but to get creative.
And that's why I love this movie so much. I've become that one person that doesn't leave you in peace until you've watched it. For me it just transcends favouritism in films, but if I could pick my favourite, it would be this one. I hope young people see your video and watch this masterpiece, and let it be as cathartic as it was to me.
We are kindred spirits. My friends hates me when I wouldn’t shut up about it lol
“Almost no one my age has watched this film.” Maybe where you live. Where I live I know most high school kids watch this as part of music class.
@@wellesradio Good for you! I hope that were true here too.
@@wellesradio here in America we watch t4nny prid3 and how we're all r4sist videos as part of our reeducation training
@@jerrypizzle7433 Don’t even know where to begin with that bullshit. As someone who actually works in a high school and loves Amadeus without feeling the need to politicize every goddamn thing - STOP WATCHING FOX NEWS.
I saw a video of someone analysing this movie and how George Lucas should have structured Episode II more like this film in order to fix Anakin's characterization
that sounds interestingg. can you post the link?
Hi, if you see this reply, I’d love to see the link too!
I generally agree with this video, specially regarding the scene with Katerina. One other thing I do think helps the director's cut: the subplot where Salieri spreads the rumor that Mozart molests his teenage female students. That explains why later on he can't get any pupils, which goes unexplained in the original version.
Well in reality he hd problems gettign students because a) he demanded pay while others like salieri didnt and b) he was a comnpleat social wacko who appeared to most members of the high nobility as a weirdo. They liked his music but didnt really want him around.
I always assumed that he didn't have pupils for the reason he himself gave -- it doesn't leave enough time for composition.
Who's Katerina? Did you mean Constanze?
NOTHING LIKE Katerina...
@@MsLizziebeth1 Katerina was the singer Salieri was in love with, played by Christine Ebersole in the movie
IRL Salieri: I have never met this man in my life....(he gud tho)
film Salieri: *P E A C E W A S N E V E R A N O P T I O N*
(oh yeah, History Buffs has a vid on this)
7:45: this is ironic...I have only seen the director's cut, and I have tried on occasion to guess which scenes had not existed in the theatrical version, and I thought the whole sequence with Constanza and Salieri did not exist in the theatrical version, or at least here coming back to...offer herself, lol...I mean, lol, it's interesting to see that I was right that it didn't exist in the theatrical version...that said, ironically, for someone who only saw the director's cut, I always thought that scene felt like it was "too much", lol...like it felt superfluous, unlikely...I actually feel like it would all work better as shown here, 7:46 or so...I think it would perfectly explain her behavior/hostility at the end without all the other stuff that follows, lol...I mean, lol...I always felt that scene was too much and felt certain it was added in the director's cut...so I would have expected anyone who had first watched the theatrical cut to feel that even more strongly than I do, lol...
...another scene, lol, and I know this is something most people would disagree on, the Don Giovanni scene seemed too long to me, lol...unless you like opera (hell, lol, I don't hate opera and I don't care much for that sequence)...I mean...and I'm always puzzled when people like the composing-scene between Mozart and Salieri so much...I feel the only way you'd like it is if you are a composer or something (or a creative, perhaps, I suppose actually being a composer wouldn't be necessary)...I mean, lol, it's not my favorite scene in the film, or perhaps even one of them, lol, let alone in film history...
I think you miss the possibility that Salieri had a change of heart during the night of composing with Mozart, that he recognized that Mozart was sharing his genius with Salieri in an intimate personal way that nobody else had experienced, that Mozart was practically giving him the gift of understanding straight from God, and that, by morning, Salieri no longer intended to kill him. When he says, “Because, madame, I was at hand”, the unspoken message was “and you weren’t”. Salieri was in a position of taking care of Mozart and his music, possibly learning to appreciate him as a man and a colleague, and the twist was that right after he was granted entrance into Mozart’s inner genius, Mozart died. At least, that’s how I interpreted the ending of the theatrical release.
That’s exactly how I interpret it too. When Mozart says “I was foolish, I thought you did not care for my work or me. Forgive me... forgive me.” And you see that wave of shock (and slight tinge of regret) on Salieri’s face. It’s tragic and heartbreaking when you realize that these two could have been friends long ago but couldn’t reconcile until Mozart was on his literal deathbed. Salieri never gave Mozart a true chance through the years, he was bound and determined to get revenge on God no matter what.
That’s how I always saw it. He regretted everything he did. That’s why he confessed it.
They could have learned TREMENDOUSLY from each other. Mozart needed polish, needed to understand Viennese society generally and Emperor Joseph II especially; he needed to learn how to get along, etc. These impeded his success in court. Salieri could have taught him that. Salieri needed an improved grasp of compositional layering. Mozart could have taught him that. They both could have benefitted by friendship and exchange. But no; envy (Salieri's) and pride (Mozart's) prevented it.
@@tamarabedic9601 You do realize that this is fiction, right? All of the things you just stated only apply to the fictional versions of the Mozart and Salieri.
Salieri was not composing with Mozart, he was taking dictation
.
Amadeus is an absolute masterpiece - thanks for drawing attention to it
Amadeus is an indisputable masterpiece, a mind-blowing feat considering Forman's One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest is also in that league. Still, Amadeus needs more discussion - much more - because it's hard to get people interested in seeing it these days. It doesn't "pop" for us the way OFOTCN does. The best way I've found to gin up interest is to tell people it's not essentially about Mozart or classical music; it's about the falsity of the phrase "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder," at least with respect to art, and unpacking the implications of that falsity.
While not an admirable character, Salieri in many ways is sympathetic because, when confronted with the nearly divine majesty of Mozart's compositions, he doesn't immediately begin lying to himself about aesthetic realities. He doesn't tell himself, "Meh, it's all subjective anyway, so I'm just as good as Mozart." He sees the truth of the matter and it corrodes his soul like acid. It's worth considering that perhaps much of the motivation for asserting relativism, at least in aesthetics, is precisely to avoid the fury, resentment, envy, and despair that the alternative would virtually guarantee. It's a therapeutic move more than an intellectual one. Salieri is perversely noble for refusing that therapy. He is honest enough, despite being otherwise mendacious, to acknowledge what is plainly true: Mozart's music is objectively superior to his, and it will very likely always be so.
As a result, his anger is not really directed at Mozart but at God (or Nature, if you prefer) for distributing sublime genius so arbitrarily. Mozart is just a pawn in Salieri's quest for vengeance against God. He received the gifts that Salieri, in his mind, rightfully deserved; therefore God is unjust, his world is wrong, and the proper crusade is to foil his plans. Hence the ironic significance of the title *Amadeus,* i.e., "lover of God."
In short, the film is so successful because it tells the truth, one that any aspiring artist will immediately recognize in fear and trembling.
Couldn't have said it better myself, just beautifully put, insightful and sincere.
@@pinheiro... p
Great observations. I’ll just add that in general people took their relationship with a personal God far more seriously in the eighteenth century than they do now, and seen in the light of that era’s beliefs Salieri’s resentments make sense. So far as he’s concerned he and God had a deal: in exchange for Salieri’s devotion, God would make him immortal through his music, and by granting greater talent to a vulgar upstart God had let down His end of the bargain.
Exquisitely stated.
This makes me think of how insanely jealous I was when one of my close friends got married last year. Not because of the man she was marrying, he is far older and I don’t know him. It’s all the pictures from the engagement and leading up to the wedding and knowing she… would look like an absolute goddess on her wedding day. My friend is actually a beauty queen and competed in national level pageants to give some legitimacy to these claims. Expressive blue-green eyes, a gorgeous curvy figure and long legs in a petite frame … But it’s her wide smile that dazzles: she got that Colgate mouth.
Did I try to say she was not that pretty? Without success, yes I did. It took me two weeks before I could look at her wedding pictures for fear that I was not ready with the crippling insecurity I felt in the face of my friend’s glorious appearance.
Seeing pictures of her in a swimsuit were not easy either seeing so much more of her figure on display than usual.
I don’t think anybody tried to tell me that she wasn’t pretty and I was. In a way I wanted them to tell me the truth and see what I saw.
I wanted to be just as gorgeous as her… especially when I made the mistake of thinking that the man who married her picked her because she was hot.
I saw this movie in the theater in 1984 when it came out, and I’ve never seen the “director’s cut”. Up until this moment, I took the Salieri walk-out scene to be a very cold, rude, wordless rejection of Stanzi’s request. I thought Salieri was so amazed and impressed by Mozart’s work in the pages, that his heart was so very hardened with envy and hatred, that he walked out on poor Stanzi’s pleadings- in other words, a big NO! That has been my assumption since 1984. So Stanzi’s later coldness and distrust of Salieri at the end made sense to me (and my family who saw it at the same time).
Yeah it still makes sense it just seemed, at least on my first viewing a BIT odd, considering she seemed so upset with him despite them only sharing a single scene together. And again, the added context really does emphasize the subtleties of Elizabeth's performance in that scene.
I also agree that the director’s cut adds nothing significant to the basic plot. One footnote to the director’s cut: You have to feel sorry for the brilliant character actor, Ken McMillan, who played the father of the young girl Mozart was attempting to teach piano lessons to. This entire subplot was cut out of the original theatrical release so he was not seen at all in the movie!
@@MacabreStorytelling Love your idea of how to create the perfect cut. Perhaps even better, though: the theatrical cut and then, before the scene with Mozart's musical scores on the floor and Salieri storms out on Stanzi, Salieri makes a subtle suggestion to her how he might be convinced to recommend Mozart, followed by a rejection from Stanzi, and then, he humiliated, a call by Salieri for his servant to show her out.
Damn, I had no idea about the missing scene that wasn't missing. I was wondering what on earth the "one fatal flaw" would be, racking my mind for what I could possibly have missed; which strikes me as a tad ironic, considering I once wrote an essay for a media studies class putting forth the argument that Amadeus's climax is a perfection of the cinematic artform.
Golly, this film and the two Godfathers are my favorites, so I'm glad whenever I see someone else gush about the same.
Your analysis is bang on, it's one of the greatest films ever made and that scene made the finale electric. When it premiered on broadway in 81 it starred Tim Curry as Mozart, Jane Seymour as Constanze and Ian Mckellen as Salieri. You'll never get a trio that good again in anything. I was lucky to get Kenny Bakers autograph on the DVD.
When I saw it onstage in L.A., it was Mark Hamill who played Mozart. I really liked the film much more than the play - ever since I saw it in December of '84, it's been one of my favorite movies. I wish more people watched it nowadays.
I would suggest that the National's "Amadeus", first presented at the National Theatre in 1979 and directed by Sir Peter Hall starring Paul Scofield as Salieri, Simon Callow as Mozart, and Felicity Kendal as Constanze had the superior cast. Check out Scofield's first monologue in the play:
czcams.com/video/rvPIjzp9NPc/video.html
@@andredarin8966 is this originally a play??? wow, i thought this film is an original
Amadeus (the Director's cut) is my absolute favorite film and I am so happy to see that there are other fans out there who appreciate this masterpiece. I watch it every year on my birthday and I learn something new every time. I hope to see more of your critical analysis of this film. Big fan of your channel!
I know it's not required but I think maybe having one very short sequence with women of the court gossiping and giggling about Constanze being humiliated would have really emphasized the effectiveness of Salieri's plot against her, since to my recollection we never see evidence in the rest of the film that word of what she did spread further than that single servant who saw her. Of course, we can read between the lines knowing that servants of the aristocracy in these times constantly spread gossip about their employers, so one could also chalk this up to the film respecting the audience's intelligence once again.
My headcanon is that people absolutely would have gossipped and mocked both Mozart and Constanze, but the gossip would have been quiet enough to never find its way back to Mozart for him to discover Salieri's true nature so that part of Salieri's plot went off perfectly, but he had to destroy the reputation of an innocent woman to achieve it.
But dont you see? He doesnt emerge any better if it becomes gossip. Him having a last minute change of heart means he intended to commit adultery...but chickens out.
If he changed his mind at the last moment to humiliate her? Hes a mean spirited plotting viper trying to humiliate a desperate woman?
Humiliate her why exactly?
OR if its gets around he would seem like less of a *man* for kicking a naked woman out of his chambers.
Of course WE know that Salieri is a scared virgin.
And lbvs-he doesnt want to have sex with Mozarts wife and come up ahem 'short' yet again!
Stanze doesnt want him.
She's desperate!
No man that a woman beds for convenience will compare to a man she beds for LOVE.
Lesson:Salieri waits TOO long to act.
He waits too long to learn music.
He waits too long to bed the soprano.
He waits too long to put a pillow over Wolfies face and kill him.
He waits too long to scoop up the mass.
He even waits too long to confess and commit suicide, hes an old man and doesnt have the strength and frankly no one cares.
Salieri is literally a *beat* behind.
Re:Servants gossiping. Just like modern day personal assistants-the smart ones keep their traps shut so they dont mess up a VERY cushy job.
It simply isnt worth it when people are starving to death shoeless in the streets.
It makes complete sense for Salieri to rage-quit after seeing Mozart's genius on the page. He can't cope in the moment so he has to go. This is an ultimate blow, to see how effortless Mozart's writing is, especially since Stanzi is apparently innocent of just what it means to write music like this in one go. How could Salieri possibly explain his feelings at this moment? Sure, it's awkward - but he couldn't do anything else but walk out. I've not seen the director's cut, I realise now - so this is the version I'm familiar with and it does make sense to me.
Yeah, he's not even *there* anymore, he's got to go have a swirling ragefest at God and wind up burning a crucifix and swearing vengeance at God, I mean, he is *transported* into a place where Stanzi's presence is beyond irrelevant. I never had trouble with that scene the way he walked out. And in the final scene with Stanzi, the tension is perfectly understandable because it is established that Stanzi doesn't like or trust Salieri, and she's not just "a sweet girl", she's very savvy and she's not the only one of Mozart's society who shows apprehension and distrust of Salieri. However, he is right that the scene adds so much. I have seen the original theatrical cut a million times and didn't see the director's cut until oh 2008 or so and while that scene did make me uncomfortable it seemed to add so much to the nature of Salieri that I felt it really should have been in there. I've never seen the original play so I don't actually know what was in the original.
9:27 I actually find that if he had done all the other stuff to Constanza, lol, she would be even more hostile to him in that ending scene...I find the amount of hostility as shown the film entirely consistent with him just walking out on her...hell, lol, some people would be even more hostile...I mean, every time I watch the film, I thought the scene was too much, and was certain, for that reason, that it had been added to the director's cut...
9:32: actually, lol, I think Constanza isn't always sweet, look at her interacting with Mozart's dad, lol...she's not overly kind to the servant either...look at her quarrelling with (forgot his name) the actor/singer/writer of The Magic Flute when he swings by...not even just that scene, when he visits them in their box at the opera during the performance of The Marriage of Figaro for the commoners...I mean...she's mainly only kind to Mozart, I think, and sometimes she scolds him, lol...her behavior at the end toward Salieri is entirely consistent with their interaction without all the added stuff from the director's cut...
Ok, lol, 11:25, maybe "I regret we have no servants to show you out"-line does make more sense in light of that cut-scene...but other than that, lol...
While we all know Mozart, I would like to stress that Joseph II was arguably one of the best emperors Austria ever had. He was dedicated to the principles of enlightenment; one can strongly feel this even in the movie. Working since 16 years abroad I watch this movie everytime I feelt homesick, lonely or burnt-out and it gave me a morality boost every time I watch it. As a matter of fact, one can also learn a lot about what means Austria and Austrian culture at its best from this movie and I strongly encourage everyone to watch this movie also from this angle. Being asked what might be Austrian culture at its best? It is the focus on music as the connecting link in society and between ethnicities. Due to many offcial languages, we never had our own "national epos"; but we had music; I trust it was a positive political decision to use music instead. I love how serious they took music in those days. Just as serious as we take AI or a new algotithm. Thank you for sharing your analysisi of the movie and looking forward to your comments.
God, the whole discussion on what to cut, is so insanity inducing. Personally when it comes to fiction I like the "more is better". Like a like the long wandering inner monologues and discriptions Dostoevsky does in his books. I like the long wandering camera takes of Tarkvosky. But I definitely see where you are coming from, knowing when to cut is really the essence of knowing how to make a film. Directors must by necessity have that anal obsession about editing to make a cohesive film.
I love Amadeus either way, but I agree The Director’s Cut has “too many notes” and given a choice, I definitely prefer the original version. However, I still don’t think the Stanzi scene is necessary because over the years Salieri played so many tricks on Mozart behind his back, and as duplicitous as Salieri was, I don’t think it was a secret to anybody in their musical sphere that he had it out for Mozart. They struggled financially, his operas were sabotaged, and Mozart obviously didn’t get the teaching position she begged Salieri for. Mozart regularly complained about the Italians, so she had plenty of other reasons to be suspicious of Salieri being alone with Mozart, especially when he refused to leave when asked the first time.
Never have seen the director's cut, but I do love this movie: I love the screenplay better than the stage play, which, as I remember, focuses almost exclusively on Salieri to the detriment of Mozart's character. There is a very wonderful moment in the stage play where Salieri brings up the house lights and addresses himself directly to us, but the screenplay, I feel, is a much rounder, richer showcase for both central characters as well as the secondary characters, especially the wonderful Roy Dotrice as Papa Mozart - Jeffery Jones, horrible human being though he is, delivers a great Emperor, with the way his "mm-hmm" seems to echo in an empty cranium. And the use of the music during the movie is outstanding.
Perfect movies - personally, I have a few: "Babette's Feast". "Amadeus" for sure. "Casablanca". "Hobson's Choice". "Kind Hearts and Coronets". "The Red Shoes". "What's Up, Doc". "Young Frankenstein". Some are smaller movies, some very grand, most start from a careful script featuring relatable, troubled people in conflict, rounded out with either deceptively simple or eye-filling cinematography. Looking forward to looking at your other entries in this series.
Fantastic analysis! You elucidate why this is such an amazing movie seeing things I never consciously noticed (such as dual character study, moving seamlessly from hilarity to horror, etc.)
I know in my own writing, especially under the influence of inadequate writing coaches, I've been persuaded to add exposition I didn't think my story needed and came to regret. That definitely can happen. No surprise that a director's cut could make that mistep.
But the idea that the theatrical release would leave something out which then the director's cut would very importantly put back in, but bloat the story up with other non-essential elements - - this is exactly the kind of re-vision process mess that gives writers migraines...!
And I love that it's sweet, devoted Stanzi, who in her enthusiasm to push Mozart to be the breadwinner, and willingness to morally and emotionally compromised herself for the sake of their survival, who would have had such an incriminating encounter with the antagonist and thus see through Salieri...
The irony for him, her guilt over trying to help in a way that seems to have harmed, the cupuppance of a cad and her wounded dignity avenged, her new wisdom as a wife...
GREAT~💥‼️‼️💥
"I regret we have no servants to show you out, Herr Salieri." BING! BING! BING!
The added scenes of the Director's cut (Caterina and Costanze) layer a sexual (very personal) revenge on top of the professional, compositional envy.
I agree with you; Salieri was unsure Costanze would come and was horrified that she did. In the scene where she is bravely undressing herself, the 40+ year old virgin is...lost; doesn't know what to do, how to react. I don't think Salieri delayed calling his servant, to deliberately humiliate her.
It was like he was getting shown a side of life that he had never really experienced which was a corporeal beauty and so he both just watched and froze before doing what he had always done and fled from the situation
I own the theatrical cut on VHS and director's on DVD. Love them both. One of the best films I've ever watched
Loved this film, that laugh was iconic.
I was a basic 18 year old who watched this movie and I ended up loving it. I think it's Forman's best work, I hold it in a higher regard than One Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest.
Agreed. I love Cuckoo's Nest but there are some gripes I have with it when looking back. They don't dull the brilliance, but do prevent it from being "perfect" IMO.
@@MacabreStorytelling well this one also isn't perfect since it has one fatal flaw right? All jokes aside, this movie rocks, or rather classisizes!
Man you’re pumping these out like the baby factory in Mad Max Fury Road.
Hey man, Harold II traveled all across in England in just 4 days with a giant army.
@@gfilmer7150
Actually, he did it twice - once on the way to Stamford Bridge, and again when he rushed south to fight at Hastings.
@@warlordofbritannia True. I was trying to have it more simplified.
@@gfilmer7150
It’s alright - I’m just the self-appointed defender of the legacy of Harold II Godwinsson
You can tell due to my pfp and username 😂
@@warlordofbritannia Lol. That war for England was a partial inspiration for Game of Thrones.
Glad your doing these again- your pre-tyrion film reviews were great so was hoping you'd get back to them
I’ve seen both and I disagree. I think the added scene cheapens tHe movie. When he just walks out on her that’s not trivial. She asked for help from him at her most desperate hour and also has seen that he loves the music and yet he just walks out? Let me give you the subtext “Fuck you” that’s the subtext and it’s hardly subtle. So yes she realizes he is an enemy at that point. So seeing him at her husbands side when Mozart is very sick, especially working on that piece he said was killing him is going to make for very awkward tension indeed. This is just over analyzing imho.
It’s not over analyzing, I agree with you. I recently bought and watched the Director’s cut for the first time and I prefer the theatrical version. I like that scene ending with his silent “fuck you and fuck him” walk away and the very LOUD door slam. It spoke volumes!
Agreed
In one scene, after Salieri puts on a successful opera, Mozart sits in disgust having no part of the performance and deriding every note in his mind. After the opera, Salieri asks Mozart for his opinion only to get a back-handed compliment. "What can one say when one hears such sounds, but... Salieri" he mocks. I noticed in this scene that Salieri looks for Mozarts praise, because he always seeks it from the outside. From external reward, applause glory , not from within. Salieri is in fact a great man in his own right. He surpassed his father's condemnation to become a teacher and excellent musician in the highest court. He dotes on his students and truly loves music, as we can see for his recognition of Mozart's great Talent. But Salieri's great flaw is that he can not see his own greatness.
On the other hand, Mozart is a great musician and performer, but he can't see any one else's greatness through his own arrogant pride and childish ways. In that scene I saw both men as villainous in certain ways. It's when Salieri destroys Mozart that he ironically loses his own greatness. Mozart's punishment was death and Salieri's was his remaining life. A great film.
I agree with your analysis and I also love this movie which is one of my favorites. I actually forgot that the scene with Stanzie and Salieri was cut from the theatrical release.
I would agree that the scene with Caterina in her dressing room serves no purpose and even weakens the distance between Mozart and Salieri, coming off as almost too "chummy" if that makes sense in that moment.
The other scene I think should have been removed from the director's cut is the one between Constanza and Mozart's father. Not when he arrives or questions her housekeeping (since it helps when Salieri's spy maid is introduced) but the rest of the bickering between his father and Stanzie because it makes him a less imposing figure. I think it should have been kept to his father acting disapprovingly and then to Mozart suggesting they go out to have fun.
Alright, you've convinced me to edit a personal copy of "Amadeus" that cuts all the unnecessary scenes.
I've had all these exact thoughts ever since I first watched Amadeus (Director's Cut) and read up on the differences with the theatrical cut. Thank you for articulating it here! And yeah, someone really should make a fan edit that's somewhere in between the two: ~2 hrs, 50 min long, I imagine.
I think you’re spot on here. Everything you’ve said rings true. The scene should have stayed in the original, and would have added even more to an already incredibly great film. Conversely, its addition in the director’s cut is diluted (well, the entire film is, actually) due to the addition of the other ponderous and unhelpful scenes. Between the two versions, the original theatrical release is best - hands down. But that version actually could have been improved upon in the way that you described, with the Salieri and Stanzi scene being allowed to run to its originally intended length. Oh, and one more thing - this film has truly been my favorite film since I saw it (three times!) in the cinema. Simply adore it!
Oh, and one more thing to add to my “one more thing”: let’s not forget the scene which follows Constanza’s almost intimate meeting with Salieri: she’s totally distraught when her husband (Mozart) finds her weeping in bed, and she tearfully declares her love for him. That scene, in addition to the death scene, makes more sense and carries more weight once we better understand why she was crying so bitterly - she was willing to sacrifice herself in devotion to the man she so fully loved.
This is such a great analysis, having watched the theatrical cut first on dvd and then owning the directors cut on blu ray later. I never understood just quite the level of animosity between Salieri and Constanze. The directors cut does have fat in it that did not need to exist but that element is crucial.
When I saw that you were featuring Amadeus in this series, I definitely thought you jumped the shark as I find it to be an amazing piece of cinema. Good thing I watched the video
So stoked when I saw this in my feed. Right there with ya on favorite film. I'm not as well watched or written as you, but this movie always had me going through all sorts of emotions from beginning to end.
Personally, I do feel for Salieri despite what he does. His upbringing and struggles against great envy of Mozart for his desires of musical talent. He is jealous how easily it comes to Mozart whereas he is self disciplined and does all the "right" things by being a tutor and a part of the King's musical committee and so on, and yet he isn't even close to Mozart even in his dreams.
Great video, thank you.
@Naikomi we all know that if anyone should be jealous of anyone it's mozart of haydn because haydn was vastly more important
My dad used to play this movie when I was a little kid. My brothers (and even my dad) would usually get bored and leave the room by the halfway point but I would be absolutely glued and enraptured. Since I was a kid this has been my favorite movie OAT.
EDIT: I should add, I was watching the theatrical cut not the directors cut as a child lol
My family and I just watched this film, and it's so good. I actually got into a fun argument with them about how I thought that Salieri might not of been as mediocre as he believed, as he was able to understand Mozart's work better than anyone else, and his own need for recognition meant that he was making work specifically designed for the boring upper class that didn't understand anything about music other than what they were told. That if he wasn't so locked up in his own ego and his own need to be recognized, he might of been free to make pieces that while not popular with the establishment, been what he really wanted to make. It's such a wonderfully well written movie.
Great point!
Great video Mac. Thanks for reminding me of this gem, it's been a long time since I last saw it. Hope you will make your OFF of Midsommar soon, I have so mixed thoughts about this movie
There is only one flaw in my opinion in this cinema masterpiece: the 80s inspired wigs.
Every time I see the film the only thing that disturbs my immersion into the film is stuff like pink wigs or wigs that have a slight 80s flair to them and are not wholly appropriate to the era the film is supposed to take place in. Some of it is subtle but it is enough to disturb the immersion of the audience.
Other than that the movie is flawless.
Agreed 100%, but since there is no perfect cut, I prefer the theatrical version since I feel the other drags too much. Shame they didn't think of cutting around the nudity. So happy to hear the love for this movie, it's one of my favs as well!
...This is the most pragmatic and objective description I have ever heard....about anything. The narration in this Video itself....carries tremendous perfections. Thank you for posting....is good shit
Well, thanks for this vid, Chris. You've made me realize that I saw this movie when I was 13 and not mature enough to appreciate it at all. I wouldn't have bothered seeing it again, but now I'm eager to rewatch it!
I think you're right. Taking out the scene where Salieri deliberately humiliates Constanze greatly weakens the dramatic impact of their final confrontation. The other cut scenes involved Mozart begging for money. They were (probably) removed because they were slowing down the pace. Removing them didn't damage the story at all.
I clicked on this because, despite only ever seeing Amadeus a few times (the original cinema version at the time of release and then the original cut VHS) I could not imagine what the one fatal flaw could be! In my opinion it was that rarest of things, a flawless movie. But when you explain your reasoning for wanting the director's cut scene where Salieri humiliates Constanzi edited back into the original, it does make absolute sense. I always assumed that when she locks away the score at the end, Constanzi must have knowledge of Salieri's machinations that we had not seen on screen. Her reaction to him is so extreme, so you are correct, that deleted scene does really help explain what goes on between them. Such an incredible film though. I do tend to find Director's Cuts of films tend to be bloated, obviously there are a few notable exceptions, but it's as though directors get too close to the project to have real clarity and lose the perspective that the endeavour is actually for the audience experience and not their own.
I found this series this morning. And the wait (2 hours) has been too long already.
Give us the Fatal Flaw of Midsommar! The suspense is killing me!
I remember watching this movie a lot with my mom when I was younger (although she skipped through some scenes) and I really want to watch this again now that I’m older and definitely more mature than I was when I was nine
I love the added scene between them. It sent shivers through me that Salieri would stoop that low. Yet when I look back on it, it takes away his chastity. He made a vow to God that he would give him his chastity. He never made the slightest move on Caterina. I think that the character of Salieri is to sexually naive to even think of that scheme. So now when I look back on the scene with Mozart and Salieri walking in on Caterina it makes more sense that he catches on a little late, that "the creature had her." Then the scene where Salieri turns away and walks off from Constanze and steps on Mozart's music after she admits they have no money "that money just slips though his fingers." She shows him his music, which are originals, no mistakes, no copies, finished as no music is finished. Here is his jealousy and pettiness. He made his vows to God, prayed to him, but God decided to speak through a man who spends all his money on nonsense, booze and finery. Of course he walks off like he does. I think Constanze sees him as a rich pompous asshole. She has just opened up about a hardship to someone she probably sees as a peer and friend to her husband. All this while servants bring her rich delicacies in Salieri's rich house. Of course she acts like she does when she meets him taking advantage of he husband in a poor house with no furniture and her husband dies. Just saying. Anyways Amadeus has always been a favorite and is one of the few movies in the day in age I actually own. Thanks for the video I thoroughly enjoyed it and had me thinking.
What a feast this film is. Visually luscious, musically stunning, cinematically mesmerising with such balance of colour and light we feel totally transported to Vienna.
only that it was filmed in Prague
Greetings from Vienna.
I saw Amadeus in the cinema when I was 16 and it's been my favorite movie ever since. But I always felt like something was missing in the story and now that I've seen this, the final puzzle piece falls into place. Thanks for that!
i've seen this as a child. watch it once a year ever since. never met anyone really digging this movie
You are not the only one who has loved it.
Never watched this movie. May give it a go on your recommendation, Mac.
Its so good! Highly recommend it.
It's a damn shame most people have never heard of this movie, its one of the best films I've ever seen.
You will not regret.
It's great.
I'm afraid I agree with the Theatrical Cut removing the humiliation scene. My family used to watch Amadeus on Thanksgiving Day as some kind of tradition but eventually that DVD got scratched and we got a replacement, it was the Director's Cut. The humiliation scene was just not fitting at all for Thanksgiving, it is in it's own way a brutally uncomfortable scene that I would say darkens the tone of the movie too far, and the nudity just make it worse. While the ending make more sense, it comes at the cost of making the movie too dark and making Salieri far less relatable.
We saw the film in high school. It probably was the theatrical cut but I am not sure. Artistic nudity is not as big as a taboo here compared to some other places. I can see how that scene may be particularly uncomfortable, but the film is pretty dark even without it. The mood switches mentioned in this video even accentuate the dark undertones in my opinion.
I agree; one of the few instances where I much prefer the theatrical to the director's cut, but didn't miss the frankly unnecessarily salacious Constanze/Salieri scene, even though it confused me a bit during the Requiem "reunion". Happy to see you love this film so much, it was a fond childhood memory, and later when I happened to run into Tom Hulce at a Juilliard elevator, quite a surreal moment.
I agree, i'd like to see a version cut that includes the servant escorting Constanze out to make the film perfect.
My friend gave me his DVD of the theatrical cut. It's the version I first saw, and it's the one I also prefer. The story flows more smoothly. The scene where Constanza revisits Salieri and bares her breasts would obviously not be appropriate for all audiences, but adds nothing to the storyline. Neither does the chat with Madame Cavalieri in her dressing room as described.
As for Constanza's outrage, it was clear to me from the theatrical version that she realized Salieri was no friend of her husband and enjoyed great success at his expense given his "mediocrity". Salieri's refusal to help after the initial meeting, and then walking over the manuscripts was reason enough to hate him.
I am an absolute lover of Amadeus, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. This shows how director's cuts are not necessarily better for adding content, and that editing is in itself an important component of the art of movie making. The theatrical cut is stronger and better than the director's.
This film is nothing short of a masterpiece.
I thought i noticed sonething odd when i saw this movie recently ( last watched on vhs when i was a kid ). The Stanzi scene really stood out and i rewound it to see if i missed something. Thanks for explaining all this!!
I used to think that the Stanze scene was unnecessary. But now i get it. Thanks!!
I have never seen the director’s cut, only the original theatrical version. (I was in my 20’s when this came out.) I always thought it was odd at the end when she said that they didn’t have servants to see Salieri out. It just didn’t sit right. Now that you’ve discussed the cut scenes (both in the dressing room and when Salieri dismissed her, it makes sense.
where can I find the original cut?
Goddammit.
I realized now that I've never seen the director's cut. And I LOVE this movie.
I can't believe that, all along, it had a scene that made it even better than I thought it was.
Edit: for what it's worth, my original take on the ending (without the missing scene) is that in their final collaboration, Salieri's own twisted affection for Mozart, ultimately, is what won out and led to him carelessly allowing Stanzi to lock away the requiem.
It's never a bad idea to watch a Miloš Forman's movie... And the most underrated and forgotten one is "Taking off", that is, the most hilarious movie ever ...
I never thought that Salieri simply walking out of the room without saying another word didn't make sense. He has just seen Mozart's genius on paper, page after page of perfect music without any corrections needed, and it makes him really upset and angry. Walking away , refusing to help, is a much better way of showing his jealousy than shouting a monologue at her, which lesser films would've made him do.
Well said. My only gripe is Stanze’s hostility towards him. I guess it still makes sense but the missing scene really takes away the subtlety of Elizabeth’s performance.
@@MacabreStorytelling That's true. I understood her hostility to stem from Salieri's refusal to help them earlier, as well as her guilt for leaving her husband plus her instinct to protect him when he is ill and shouldn't be disturbed (let alone be working all night). But the missing scene does add a whole other layer to that, and some lines (like the one about the servants) make more sense now.
Incidentally, his attempt at seduction and her reaction (and _his_ reaction to that, starting an affair with Katherina himself despite his vow of virtue to God) have quite a prominent place in the stage play. I was surprised that it was missing from the film, but now it's clear what happened. (I own the theatrical cut on DVD, I've never seen the extended version.) So I learned something today, which is always nice. 😊
Love the breakdown. Amadeus has always been my favorite film. As a kid, I was always confused by the added tension between Constanza and Salieri near the end. Throwing that one scene in would be perfection, yet I'm happy I got to see the dogs annoying him.
My favourite film too! I have a habit of watching it every New Year's Day. I guess it's the perfect way of openig my cinematic year : ) And BTW great analysis!
💓
I grew up with the theatrical version (on VHS) and it has always been one of my favorite movies. but man, I never knew about those scenes. I just assumed she was being hasty and wanted him out cause he had been there all night, and it was the parting to much that was causing Amadeus to have problems. but yea! wow yea! that changes everything. great video dude
One of favorite films period. Still waiting for it to come to 4k Blu-ray
I was 18 in 1984 and loved the movie. I never saw the directors cut but i think you are spot on.
agreed on every analytical point. This was a great film my only beef is that the laugh was a little over-the-top for me felt like it was too silly. My favorite parts are when salieri talks to the camera.
There is another music kinda history film I still watch whenever I see it but is hard to locate - IMMORTAL BELOVED starring Gary Oldman as Beethoven. It's a great whodunit mystery, sad,poignant, but for the misplacement of a note, lives would have been completely different.
The passion of the custody trial over Beethoven's nephew makes sense w the reveal of the ending. The scene at end where postman hands thhe recently found note, " Frau Beethoven ? I believe this is for you...", ahe goes inside, the camera frames a window, suddenly a woman is heard wailing, sobbing in a harrowing sound, of unfortunate realization of the other life that should have been.
Did I mention the music of Beethoven throughout? The trandformation of Beethoven from liberal anti-monarch Napoleon supporter to Napoleon hater?
This is in my top 5 movies of all time. Maybe Oldman (see The Darkest Hour, and The Professional w debut of Natalie Portman) had a hand in that !
Great analysis w behind scene info, loved this, but my film is slightly better...na na ne nyah na - st
I first saw Amadeus in 1984 as an 18-year-old. Dork that I am I bought and put up an Amadeus poster in my room and bought the soundtrack on early CD. I am fortunate to own the 1997 two-sided Wide Screen DVD. To this day I can vividly recall most scenes from an image, snippet of dialogue, or passage of music. Amadeus and Lawrence of Arabia are my two favorite movies.
BTW, a flaw can make an object more beautiful. "Kintsugi, also known as kintsukuroi, is the Japanese art of repairing broken pottery by mending the areas of breakage with lacquer dusted or mixed with powdered gold, silver, or platinum, a method similar to the maki-e technique. As a philosophy, it treats breakage and repair as part of the history of an object, rather than something to disguise." - Wikipedia
In the original cut, Salieri covers Costanze’s breasts with the portfolio as he was standing over her, leaving her embarrassed. At least that is how I interpreted it.
"There are simply too many notes"
What are your thoughts on Paul Thomas Anderson's There Will be Blood?
Kino as fuck.
Would you say it has any flaws?
@@ErickGonzalez-gy2kt Perhaps. Has been a while since I have seen it so many need to give it another watch.
Didn’t expect to laugh my butt off during a video about Amadeus. You’re very funny when you wanna be! I adore this movie. For the most part I prefer the theatrical cut, but I feel like I agree with every point you made. Great video bro!
So my first viewing of this film was an interesting introduction. In 7th grade piano class the music teacher played this movie for some reason (but in retrospect as to this teacher getting arrested 1.5 years ago for planting cameras in the band room for himself. That information changes why he thought this movie was ok to show to 7-12 grade students).
It has been a long time since I have seen a video that I have to agree 110%. You just said everything I always thought!
Amadeus was shot in Prague.
I now live in Prague.
I watched this film as a teenager, (the original, theatrical cut - yep, I'm THAT old 😏) and fell in love with it. So much so, that a couple of years later, it inspired one of my assignments when I was an art student. But yeah, I DO remember that scene with Constanze and Salieri baffling the heck out of me - I too, was like "Whu - you're just walking away? Huh? What does THAT mean?"
The overwhelming popularity of Amadeus during its theatrical, cable tv, and VHS releases proves that this theory has the fatal flaw. People DID NOT watch the movie and leave confused about Constanze's (pronounced Cone-stahn-tsa btw, not Con-stan-zee) treatment of Antonio Salieri. I watched the theatrical version in 1989 and had zero questions about her behavior. I'm sure this is because at a time of desperate need and showing extreme humility, Constanze went to Salieri and without asking for a favor, (only consideration based on merit) Salieri's response to her was to dump her husband's original scores onto the floor, walk on them, creasing them in the process, and abandon her kneeling on the floor like a child without the assistance she'd requested. Add to that, that because Wolfgang was mocking Salieri throughout, even assuming (as this video points out ) that Salieri didn't like him , one can assume that Mozart complained to Constanze off camera as well, and so one can understand that Salieri's name might have been mud to Constanze. In the movie, Constanze didn't even like Emanuel Schikaneder a real life friend of Wolfgang's. No reason at all was given for that. Yet this video didn't question it once.
I love the film! I watched it soon after my mother died, and it brought a tiny bit of light into my life. I was a little disappointed to find that the main plot, that Salieri tried to kill Mozart wasn't true, more a story from the 19th Century, but it's still by far one of my favourite films.
I have seen the theatrical release more than a doizen times, loving it every single time. Watching the director's cut provided a lot of aha moments, filling in gaps, even if some of these may have been just subtlle nuances. Like compating an initial skecth to a final painting, the director's cut rpovides full depth and colour of Forman's masterpiece
I'm 35, I saw this movie at 32 and haven't be able to forget it.
Just saw this on the big screen two nights ago in nyc, for the first time in my life. First time it was on video in 1985 (?). The backstage scene did feel redundant and I agree that the scene where Salieri humiliates Constanza is vital. Closest thing to a perfect movie.
This is such an amazing film we watched this a few times in music class. We all loved it ❤️
I'll be checking this film out ASAP
As a writer, your first piece of advice was a diamond.
Fascinating. I just watched the original cut via an old DVD copy at my library, and I did notice Contanze seemed unusually miffed at Salieri at the end but just kind of dismissed it. Very interesting to see there is reason for that now. I felt this same way with the LORD OF THE RINGS extended cuts. Most of the additions to those were great, but I absolutely hated how RETURN OF THE KING basically added a way too early reveal of the ghost army. It basically is the same exact reveal that happens later, so now its in the movie twice, and its a Catch-22 because the theatrical cut is so lacking, but the extended version goes too far!
Damn dude, you are fast with these.
It comes in waves. You get four videos in a week... every 8 months.
Maybe it's because I've never seen the original cut, but I watched this on a whim two weeks ago and absolutely loved it! It doesn't feel three hours long at all
I need to see this again! the only time I did was in the early 90s , in the theatre, somwhere between 8 and 10. So damn right PG :) (though in Romania at that time there were no rules really). I remember it being super colourful , funny and also educational (complementary to the swashbuckle books I was reading on and off), and taking place relatively close to where I was, in Transylvania, which was kinda new too.
I don't think it's in Salieri's character to proposition her. I think that why they cut it. What do you think?
I think you should do the edit you were discussing.
Awesome video. Amadeus is my second favorite movie. I had the pleasure of seeing the original as a kid on VHS. Unfortunately being on the spectrum and a ADHD kid I never fully appreciated it, in fact I thought it was boring. Fast forward years later and I rediscover the movie late high-school after my love for movies was growing. I think it was added to Netflix or something. Rewatching it I felt underwhelmed, but for some reason I felt compelled to give it another shot and I rewatched it again and after that I liked it. Then I saw it again, after that I loved it. With each viewing I started to appreciate and pick out all the details and great performances and soon enough it rose to my number 2 spot on my favorite movie list, which as far as I'm concerned is pretty rock solid.
no. 1?
@@redefinedliving5974 my number 1 is interstellar
Wow, what a fantastic video about my favourite movie.
It is fascinating to see how one can view this scene so differently about a movie we both love, while I agree with you that most of the added scenes are unnecessary, the scene with Constanze completely destroys the Directors Cut for me.
The original scene was always the pinnacle point for me: Salieri finally brakes with god, because the jealousy takes over, he clearly realizes that Mozart's talent is god given, the talent he craves so much but doesn't posess. The way he walks straight into his office and burns the cross symbolizes the point of no return.
Salieri already gave his chastity to god years ago, he wasn't really interested in something sexual, that's why I don't like this scene, in my opinion it just doesn't fit his character and personality. As he said he was in love with Catarina, but I always interpreted this in an emotional, not physical way.
You are right that the final scene with Constanze and Salerie makes more sense the other way around, but it never bothered me that much.
Anyway, this movie is just a masterpiecel
Salieri was framed! Fun facts being that Salieri admired (or said he admired) MAGIC FLUTE, and later taught Schubert. But yes. Quite interesting. I only saw the film in the cinema.
I agree with you 100% I saw Amadeus the first time around here in London, England... The theatrical cut is the best version hands down..!! and i really dont like the directors cut.. 20mins that didn't need to be added..!! IMHO
it’s weird being so early for once... also hi again!
One of the best movies ever produced. At the time of the theatrical release, I thought Constanza's reaction to Saleri was simply his failure to award the commission to Mozart when he so clearly deserved it. While I agree the deleted scene provides a better motive for her anger and tension and gives further meaningful context to her "we don't have servants to show you out" the theatrical cut gives plenty of sufficient context to her anger toward Saleri. Any way, good analysis. But either way, still one of the most masterful movies ever produced. Better than any of the Godfather movies.
The author of the video gave us this discussion to have! He gave us good reasons for all of the cuts, including the crucial one, but also showed what a difference that one makes to the final scene. His verdict was that it was a flaw, and I agree with that, but I respect your view that there was "sufficient context to her anger toward Saleri". The cut scene does add much to her line "I regret, Herr Salieri, that we do not have servants to show you out". Apart from anything else, it gives Constanze a sharper mind than we otherwise see.
I personally would have liked them to keep the scene, but without the nudity - just because it too easily becomes a visual "highlight".
I've had the theatrical version on VHS a long time, I thought since the 80s but maybe 90s. I'd only ever seen the theatrical cut until a year or two ago. I knew exactly the scene, as soon as I saw it a lot became clear. I did like the other scenes too but I agree they weren't necessary for the story except for that one scene.
I like your take that he seemed surprised Stanzi actually showed up because he just doesn’t really do anything the whole time.
When we watched it in my high school History of Film class, people said that he did that to mess with her and I always thought that was a bit of a stretch.
I think it is possible he was attracted to her and the thing about payback for the affair with Katerina makes it make sense.
At the last second he couldn’t do it because well… think about how much he repressed himself. He is acting like a nervous virgin on the wedding night except this is not his wife and he does not actually want to sleep with her despite the attraction and power play.
Yes I think he was turned on by having some power over her … especially after what happened right before he propositioned her. He was blown away and agonizing over this flawless music.
So when he grabbed the power he could it made him feel in control.
But when she showed up? I agree he didn’t think she’d actually do it. Plus he was so repressed he did not know what to do because he’s shut down those instincts. Poor girl that must have been humiliated