ZACK SNYDER’s Controversial BATMAN Comments, Let’s Talk About It…
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2024
- On Joe Rogan’s podcast Zack Snyder was talking about how to some comic book fans, these stories are like a religion and he talks Batman not being allowed to kill and how that rule makes him want to break that very rule. This has caused some fans to be outraged and news outlets are running headlines about it. But is the uproar fair or is this a situation where fans are overreacting? Let's talk about it.
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I honestly don't get it. I didn't get how people get all upset about Superman killing Zod in Man of Steel either. I personally like that both of these characters were challenged more. Conflict in scenes helps keep the movie interesting. It started to pay off in ZSJL and if the sequels were made I'm sure we would have seen more.
The religious parallel is an apt one. It's interesting that as comic fans we obsess over the "canon"; a word with its roots in theology. People cultivate a very specific personal version of these characters like their deities or their country. And they get very very angry when people "blaspheme" against it
Under the Red Hood gave a great reason why Batman doesn't kill. Red Hood accuses Batman of being to soft for letting guys like Joker live. Batman explains that crossing that line would be a point of no return for him, because once he starts killing criminals he won't be able to stop himself.
People: why doesn't batman kill bad people
Also people: noooooo batman doesn't kill people!!
People here is Snyder cultist
No DC comics guy have ever said this
@@abps9947 shut up don't think you special here since you call called me a Snyder cultist I am a huge DC and marvel fan not an MCU and and a gunn... Number one not a Gunn fan cause he said the dark Knight is awful and number 2 not a MCU fan cause the characters aren't serious cause eg hulk that's why I like the film logan number 3 clearly yiu have watched this video and I was sure you looked for me to call me a "Snyder cultist" just to feel special cause hatman has killed people since 89 and y'all don't complain about it.....which means y'all ain't taking this "batman doesn't kill people" seriously cause if you did you wound have not stated with ben Affleck in fact y'all would have started with the first comic if you took "batman doesn't kill" seriously
@@abps9947You are completely wrong. There are tons of people who complains about him not killing, especially batman fan/haters.
I ultimately believed that Batman shouldn’t kill but at the same time people act like Batman hasn’t killed people before like remember Keaton Batman? Like he use the Batmobile to burn someone alive and there was even a deleted scene of the flash where it basically said Keaton retired because he killed a criminal in front of his son or how about Bale? He could’ve save Ra’s Al ghul but he left him. You know what this reminds me of the whole Superman killing Zod situation personally I believe Superman shouldn’t killed Zod but I understand why he did it because that’s the only way he could’ve stop him at the moment and Reeves Superman killed Zod as well. So Yes Batman & Superman has killed before but at the end of the day I personally believe they shouldn’t but you can still showcase them almost breaking their limit but not ultimately killing.
People have criticized Burton for making Batman kill.
@@vineetdesai6396 yeah I know but that’s not the point I’m trying to make I’m calling out those people who say “Batman never killed someone”
@@donavinrodriguez6288 A Batman not killing is more cooler than a Batman killing. A Batman killing is just another dark edgy hero.
@@vineetdesai6396 I strongly agree
@@vineetdesai6396Lol ....Who will be responsible for more deaths then???? Barman ?
I really dislike how most news media take Snyder’s words out of context for clicks, even I would probably fall for it if I don’t know about Snyder’s approach to films as much as I do now
Btw I find it really ironic what Snyder said about a movie he did eight years ago probably gets more attention than any recent DCU news
I don't mind Snyder's comments and the fact that his heroes kill. All superheroes in movies kill - both Marvel and DC.
Like Iron Man thor hulk Captain america
they are completely different.what u dont realise is batman is a vigilante.tthats crime enough now imagine if he includes murder????
@@wambokodavid7109 nothing wrong with that.
@@silverstrike5904 then u sir are just an edge lord too like Snyder.otherwise what's the difference and interesting dynamic between him and the joker???
@@wambokodavid7109 he doesn't kill innocent people
8 years ago... man i feel old
And Affleck's/ Snyder's Batman is my favorite
Same here
Mines too. I like how Batfleck fits the height and physique of how Batman is drawn in the comics.
@puichiung2959 It Depends Which Versions, Bcuz His Version & His Big TDK Suits A Old BAT.
By this videos admission, that’s not Batman. So you don’t like Batman.
Me too
Saw your take on twitter and i agree with it. People are so hellbent on bashing Snyder they arent even celebrating DC or its future which as DC fans i believe we should all be excited! I love all of Snyders CBM's and I love all of James Gunns projects. Not to mention Snyder has openly supported Gunn! Lets celebrate the brand we love and its future rather than constantly fight and bicker about the past. Like what you like, just dont be an asshole about it
@@ComicBookGuy89874
And The Truth 31.
Thank You.
I liked how Snyder is challenging these Superhero’s morals. His Batman arc & redemption in ZSJL was good to see. I felt Batman’s pain looking down @ the dead Superman & wanted to do better & put a Justice League of Superheros together
LOL..zsjl Bats Using Small GUN & Bigger GUN Again & Future Nightmare Scene Become Killer/Murder & Use Guns..AGING, So Still DumbAss, Stupid No Development At All.🥴👎🤦♀.
And that’s where the problem comes from. The fact that Batman killed people from time to time in BVS and has absolutely no remorse or any consequences, which destroys his fundamentals and core values of the character. Plus, his whole thing with Superman and the one thing that’s stopping from killing him is because of his dead mom’s share the same name. What a complete joke. 🤣
@@luisquintero7359 Are we talking about the same film? Batman’s conscious & his heart becoming darken was the consequence. Hence when Alfred said to him “fear & range, the feeling of powerlessness.. it’s what turns good Men cruel” while he looked directly at him. The Martha line is a Post Traumatic trigger for Bruce because all he ever wanted to do was save his Mom “Martha” from being murdered in cold blood right in front of him as a 10y old boy. In Bruce eyes “The Superman” is a death symbol, wherever “The Superman” goes innocent humans die. (Battle in Metropolis, battle in Smallville, & at the United States Capitol. Etc) So in Bruce’s eyes “The Superman” is a Demon who fell from the Stars, hence the line (“You were never a God, you were never even a Man”) & he believes he’s doing “Justice” by killing this Demon with a Spear. Right before he Ends him, he yells out “Find him Save Martha” triggering Bruce’s Post Traumatic Stress syndrome.. hence Bruce’s response to him saying that. Again idk if we’re talking about the same film but definitely not a “joke.” Also thanks for your response.
@@luisquintero7359 Are we talking about the same film? Batman’s conscious & his heart becoming darken was the consequence. Hence when Alfred said to him “fear & range, the feeling of powerlessness.. it’s what turns good Men cruel” while he looked directly at him. The Martha line is a Post Traumatic trigger for Bruce because all he ever wanted to do was save his Mom “Martha” from being murdered in cold blood right in front of him as a 10y old boy. In Bruce eyes “The Superman” is a death symbol, wherever “The Superman” goes innocent humans die. (Battle in Metropolis, battle in Smallville, & at the United States Capitol. Etc) So in Bruce’s eyes “The Superman” is a Demon who fell from the Stars, hence the line (“You were never a God, you were never even a Man”) & he believes he’s doing “Justice” by killing this Demon with a Spear. Right before he Ends him, he yells out “Find him Save Martha” triggering Bruce’s Post Traumatic Stress syndrome.. hence Bruce’s response to him saying that. Again idk if we’re talking about the same film but definitely not a “joke.” Also thanks for your response.
@@luisquintero7359 Are we talking about the same film? Batman’s conscious & his heart becoming darken was the consequence. Hence when Alfred said to him “fear & range, the feeling of powerlessness.. it’s what turns good Men cruel” while he looked directly at him. The Martha line is a Post Traumatic trigger for Bruce because all he ever wanted to do was save his Mom “Martha” from being murdered in cold blood right in front of him as a 10y old boy. In Bruce eyes “The Superman” is a death symbol, wherever “The Superman” goes innocent humans die. (Battle in Metropolis, battle in Smallville, & at the United States Capitol. Etc) So in Bruce’s eyes “The Superman” is a Demon who fell from the Stars, hence the line (“You were never a God, you were never even a Man”) & he believes he’s doing “Justice” by killing this Demon with a Spear. Right before he Ends him, he yells out “Find him Save Martha” triggering Bruce’s Post Traumatic Stress syndrome.. hence Bruce’s response to him saying that. Again idk if we’re talking about the same film but definitely not a “joke.” Also thanks for your response.
I like that Snyder took a more realistic and humanistic approach to the DC characters, as opposed to the usual portrayal that they do in the past. Maybe that's why these films resonate with so many people.
His characters have no personality
@@kayenat10 I'm on the autistic spectrum so i'm supposed to be socially impaired and struggle to read peoples feelings and i understood his work.
So either your talking out of your ass or you have serious issues
Who are the "so many" people?
@@cooperjazz77 The fans who crashed the servers of HBO Max when ZSJL premiered. The ones who bought the DVDs and Blu-Rays when they went on sale in record numbers. And let's not forget the ones who got The Snyder Cut made in the first place!
He wanted Injustice Superman and Frank Miller's Dark Knight.
I wish Zack, could have made jl2 and Batman returns
facts
Fun Fact Batman has killed plenty times in the comics and so if you're gonna be mad at Zack Snyder be mad at the comics as well
Arkham Asylum a Serious House has a scene where Batman outright uses an axe, and that's a critically acclaimed story. People are just hypocritical. I mean, what are they, stupid? ( *Que MAN meme* )
Another fun fact is that those people aren't taking "batman doesn't kill" seriously cause if they did they would have started with those comics you were talking about
not really. in more than 80 yrs of his existence, Batman's killings were always exceptions. Also, many of those come from alternative versions, elseworlds.
The "mainstream" Batman, let's call him that way, is the one with the moral code. And yes, he's been challenged many times, despite what Snyder thinks. But still, it's an important feature of the character, and has been for decades.
Thank you my friend.
You are so welcome!
The backlash just proved Snyder's point.
We're mad because Not killing is the most central aspects of Batman's character. He doesn't kill because those criminals might have children, and he doesn't want that child to go through what he did, he knows if he kills it won't make him any better than the villains he fights. Also if this Batman kills, then why the fuck is The Joker still alive?! We know this Joker killed Robin, so wouldn't Joker be the first person Batman would kill? No, we are not stuck in the past. No, we don't want these characters to be perfect, we want them to be heroic and aspirational just the way they are! That's why we hate Snyder, that's why we hate the Snyderverse!
1:36 Reads paragraph from article
5:31 Reads the same paragraph again
8:04 Reads the same paragraph yet again
Pad out that runtime.....
Well if other sites are gonna misquote Snyder, might as well say the actual quote 3 times so it sinks in lol
@maybetoby exactly. I have to reinforce what Snyder actually said because it’s clear people hear what they want to hear which caused this outrage in the first place.
Does Zach Snyder know Batman? Yes. But he doesn't like the way most people preseave Batman. That's why he brought the Batman he likes on the big screen, Frank Miller's Batman. He understands Kevin Conroy's Batman but doesn't like that. The problem, his take on Batman wasn't for everybody. Which is why Batman Vs. Superman was divisive.
it's because people don't know its full version also exists and they perceive wrong information from critics.
I miss Zacks DC
Same
Me too, and I will continue to miss it until it returns
@@ComicBookGuy89874 wrong
lol . His dc was disgusting
@@ComicBookGuy89874 wrong
Snyder is living rent free in haters minds
but not his garbage dc movies
@@Fantasticjabber people are talking about them 24/7, even fans are tired but haters? No no they have an orgasm
@@Darkseidsolosfiction Which people talk about these disgusting snyder movies ??. You mean bots
@@Darkseidsolosfictionfr
@@Fantasticjabber you do right now
I'm a movie nerd, don't read comics, so i seriously don't care. All i know is i like his universe the way i like Nolan's universe, Thomas Jane's Punisher, First Thor, Netflix Daredevil, Hellboy golden army, Keanu's Constantine, Batman Returns, Raimi's Spiderman, Routh's Superman, Blade 2, Reeves' Batman, Evans' Fantastic Four etc etc.
it has been 8 years since bvs released people still talking about it because it actually successful movie
Not because its was the first time batman and superman ever came on screen together?
Getting back to Batman, though, I think a lot of people who were upset were tired of not getting a decent version of Batman in the latest movies, a soulful Batman that more resembled the cartoons we grew up with as children, but yes, an artist having Batman kill should have Batman get just comeuppance, and in the Snyder films, it did, even hinting in the Justice League movie that this Batman had made the wrong choices and was part of a failed timeline, but I'll point out that the comics always have Bruce Wayne's Batman follow a strict no kill rule, and they don't shy away from putting him in difficult situations where if he wasn't the skilled tactician that he is, he would have to kill many times over. This is part of why Batman's villains need to be portrayed accurately as well, so that those challenges can be explored.
I’ve seen so many different takes on Batman I just don’t understand why Zack Snyder’s vision gets hated on
because it was successful movie
I think WB started the Snyder hate to influence people to give up on Snyder's DC movies because they wanted to do things like Marvel way back in 2016 because they felt entitled BvS should've made a billion. WB has great influence with the industry trades and other media covering WB. Just like in real world matters the media influences thoughts in fandom (and sometimes dishonestly imo), so people who aren't already fans of Snyder will have their opinion set even if they never saw Snyder's movies. Just saying.
Because it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of the character. Pretty simple
@@ari-fariq sure...
I agree. Snyder is entitled to have his own views, his own takes on these characters who are just based on comic books. But here's the thing. I love Zack, but I disagree with him here. You can push Batman as much as you want to break his rule. But then, don't stop there. Show us how he finds it hard to maintain his rule and show us that even though how hard it is, he would never kill, no matter the situation, he would always find a way to abide by his principle. That is Batman to me. The same goes for the rest of the superheroes as well. Put them in situations where it feels like it is impossible to follow his/her moral, but then, show us how no matter the situation, they would not break their morals and continue to strive harder to make the best decisions they can.
The point of this story was to redeem batman. batman has essentially been hunting for ways to kill superman from the time he fought zod. SO much that he sees it as his last responsibility. Through out the film,he isn't fighting crime to fight crime,he never does. Even in the first mission where he saves victims of trafficking,it's really him looking for information on the white Portuguese. The story shows a batman that is reckless. When he is one on one with a criminal,he doesn't kill them,but when he's going about his business,he has complete disregard for them,he doesn't value their lives,he see them as "weeds".
What i also like is that the story never really shows this "bad" batman being successful while doing things recklessly,most times,it is Bruce Wayne who is successful with retrieving info on the white Portuguese from the Russian, Saving Wallace & the girl in metropolis, Hacking lex's servers . The psycho Batman on the other hand fails to get info on the white portuguese, fails to steal the kryptonite (until he uses a cautious stealthy method), This movie doesn't want you to root for batman,it wants you to be relieved when he starts to find his way back at the end.
This movie actually fulfills canon in a way too, because,batman says he wouldn't be able to stop once he crosses the line. And we don't see him reconsider stopping this recklessness until superman. Superman is the symbol of virtue (hence lex's distaste) & it makes sense that he would be the one to redeem Batman. So i actually agree with Zack, batman has a rule,he falls & breaks this rule,goes down a spiral,but then thanks to superman,he emerges out of this darkness. If everyone (falsely) kept this rule,we would never know what it takes for him to get back to his senses.
A lot of people say "if the rule is broken,why is the Joker still alive".
1.it's not like Joker is on a silver platter waiting to be killed. He's one of the most crafty & elusive villains.
2. This story isn't about Batman killing,it's about him being reckless to the point of disregard for human life hence technically killing people. he clearly doesn't kill everyone in his path. He just isn't shy about it. It's ,like I said,a redemption story.
Snyder didn't even get a chance to introduce his batman to us properly enough for people to understand why he was how he was in BvS. Very few people are willing to watch beyond the entertainment into the inspiration of the characters' behaviour
In BvS we can see Batman had lost his faith on his war on crime probably after the death of Robin, even lost more faith after Superman's battle with Zod in Metropolis destroyed one of Bruce Wayne's buildings, and succumbed also to Lex Luthor's gaslighting scheme in which Wallace (the crippled Wayne Enterprises employee) was blown up in Congress in the wheelchair Lex provided. This Batman just plainly didn't care anymore and told Alfred, "We're criminals, Alfred...we always were" and "If there's even a one percent chance, we have to take it as an absolute certainty" regarding how he viewed Superman as a threat to the world. This Batman likely would've continued on his downward spiral if it hadn't been for the often mocked "Martha" comment by Superman as Batman had the Kryptonite spear at his throat, and it shocked Batman into seeing himself as no better than the man who killed his parents, so Batman was awakened from his depression then and inspired later by Superman's self sacrifice against Doomsday. In ZSJL we can see Batman/Bruce having much more optimism and faith in Superman and everything else, so he was getting back to his old less cynical self.
To bad Zack didn’t understand this
@@tedenejp1644 what exactly didn't he understand?
Facts. Very well said. SIR. I salute this report and you and sensible opinion.
Batman Under the Red Hood 🤷🏻♂️
Zack Snyder should make the Batman solo movie with Ben Affleck as Batman.
Yes, he would.
One of many reasons his dceu failed
NAH..LOL..BvS Said Otherwise. Bcuz BvS Is Havy Adapted From TDKR Comics/Animation Is A BATMAN Comic/Movie.
Seems fair to me
@@puichiung2959they owe us
Affleck/Zack snyder’s Batman will forever be my favourite don’t get why people don’t like affleck Batman he played the role so good
Its because of Gunn-bots. I mean if Snyder has bots, I'm sure Gunn has bots. Just saying. 😑
@@ComicBookGuy89874dceu it's not snyderverse.
@@ComicBookGuy89874Their comment is about bots and you're talking about the old DCEU...while also being the same one replying to every comment about the Snyderverse or even lightly critical of Gunn.
Oh this is just sad.
@@firstlast9846you mean people rabidly jumping in to the defend the current chief of DC films? yep, that's sad, sycophantic and pathetic.
This is why I liked Snyders films. It pushed heroes to their limits and even broke, but also came back from the brink. Just hate that the DCEU wasn't fully utilised as if WB hadn't interfered it would've been interesting universe with its heroes following this same format Snyder talked about.
And that’s the problem. Most if not all of the characters like Ben Affleck’s Batman, their development that made them the way they are in the movies was mostly done offscreen or executed poorly or laughable (with the example of the Martha scene). If Zack and WB had just taken his time and give each of the characters their separate movies and see them on screen, then people would resonate more with the DCEU like how the general public resonate well with the MCU.
One more thing is that Zack does not understand the core values of Superman. Most of the time, he portrays Superman as a Jesus-type figure in which people look up and worship. But doing that, Zack makes the character less relatable, makes him less sympathetic, and makes the audience care less about Superman.
this is why I watch this channel and Dave the film junkie, you guys are not bias and keep it 100%
Thanks!
The problem with this movie is... Batman is not morally challenged by the story, he is on the dark side already, if we would see for example Zack's version of "Death in the family" when he becames killing batman because of his rage of Jason's/(or in this version Dick's for some reason) death, that would be better for the audience to learn to enjoy that version of Batman. This is precisely the same problem as the version of Luke Skywalker from The Last Jedi. Fans remember his hero as a good guy, but when the movie starts he is already bad guy and audience do not see believable version of "why that happened?" and they are rightfully critical about that.
and then comes another problem with Ben’s Batman. Most of the development that turned him dark and violent was mostly done off screen. If Zack had just take his time and give each of the two their solo movies, then people would resonate more with the DCEU like with the MCU.
@@luisquintero7359 Exactly.
So glad you made this video, and happy you specifically addressed the IGN article, because that was bullsh*t! I'm no keyboard warrior, by any stretch, but found myself on damage control asking commenters if they even read the quote, or just read the headline. Obviously, it was too late, and the author's intended damage was done, but the majority only read the headline and didn't even take the one word in quotations into account. The wild goal post movers came out, with one writing, "Why blame (Kilmer's) Batman for Two Face's incompetence (his death in Batman Forever). He shouldn't be so addicted to his coin." No one batted an eye at that kill in the '90s, and still don't today. Batman waged a war on crime; casualties are going to happen whether it be collateral damage, or in self defense. And they always write themselves out of it in the comics, and cartoons. It's cheating really. And, that's the difference, between Batman outright killing and collateral damage, whether gross negligence or not. In BVS, who shot first? It's the mercenaries by the way.
Batfleck and Clark Cavil is the best representation of Batman an Superman.
I love the whole deconstruction approach. Like your favorite hero did this horrible thing. Well…now how do they find their way back from it? I love what if scenarios like that.
Thanks for not being bias. I love your content.
I appreciate that!
ZSJL and ZSJL 2,3 is a masterpiece and a global phenomenon
I really loved Keaton's Bruce Wayne in Batman 1989 but wasn't a fan of him in Returns, but loved him as Batman in The Flash and would have loved to see more of him as Batman in the cancelled Batgirl movie.
Huge fan of Pattison as Batman in The Batman and can't wait for The Batman 2
Ben Affleck as Batman is insanely good and we haven't had enough time with him in my opinion to really properly form an opinion on his Bruce Wayne so I would have loved to see that explored.
Really do wish that in April when WBD can Merge/Sell, that something can happen with the Snyderverse and we can have that be an elseworlds storyline. Desperate to see ZSJL 2 & 3.
Super excited for James Gunn's DCU as well.
These are my genuine opinions and feelings, I have been confused by why people can't like more than one thing lol
When people talk about how "The REAL Superman" would never do this or "The REAL Batman" would never do that, it gives me the ick. When people say "REAL" they mean "the version in my head". And if you're not going to allow people to challenge your biases or at least explore the logic, morality or character traits behind them... you're just going to get stroppy about anything that doesn't confirm your biases.
Superman '78 and Man of Steel have very different things to say about Superman. But they're both amazing Superman movies.
Batman Begins and Batman V Superman have VERY different things to say about Batman. But they're both amazing Batman movies.
If one likes, or even prefers, this version of Batman, that's fine.
And it's fine if a filmmaker wants to make a different version, even far different from the source material, as long as he deeply knows and understands the basics of the characters, and finds interesting ways to showcase a new portrayal.
Unfortunately that wasn't the case with Snyder's take, because if you know Batman's comics, watching Batman v Superman you often get the feeling he isn't really aware of the caped crusader's traits and his core features. Also the fact that apparently he has no other reference other than Miller's Dark Knight is another clue; this is also why it's very difficult to claim Affleck's Batman is comic book accurate, since it basically features the aesthetic of The Dark Knight Returns, but lacks everything else. And what is showcased in the movie has barely any connection to Batman's comics (in terms of psychology, attitude, morality, and characterization generally speaking).
About the approach itself, Snyder's take wasn't really "deconstruction". Deconstructive stories have a more sophisticated approach, that explore the layers of established characters, while Snyder just turned the character upside down saying "let's make him break his rule".
And that's why many fans weren't happy with his version. Not because "they don't want Batman to be challenged or be put in a position where he doesn't have to kill".
At the end of the day, as I said it's totally fine to have different tastes, but this filmmaker and most of his fans always try to push the narrative that his approach was right/accurate and people just didn't get it because they're gatekeepers, or misunderstood the film. If they just accepted that it's cool to love this version of the character without claiming that it's also accurate (or worse, the "most accurate") this debate wouldn't have escalated to this point.
ZACK SNYDER David Ayer is Generous kind respectful persons with a big heart ❤️
We appreciate everything what ZACK SNYDER Deborah Snyder David Ayer has already done for us
Thanks for keeping it real and level. Well done 👏👏👏
Thanks for watching!
@@OurMovieNewsshould u review Zack synder Joe Rogan
8:30 if you can't challenge these characters in any way, you end up with the first Captain Marvel movie
Everything ZACK SNYDER touches turns to gold
What was Snyder smoking?
Batman doesn't kill his enemies that's why he is fu*king Batman not punisher.
You sir at Our Movie News really rip this moral thing down to its molecular structure and word everything in detail so creatively and fluidly. Your channel is awesome. And you make a lot of sense in clearing the air on other social media platforms cherry picking Zacks words to fit their narratives. Keep up the fantastic work sir!! Have a great day. 👍
So nice of you, thank you!
I honestly think the Nostalgia Critic put it best in his review of _Batman Returns._ The whole "Batman not killing" really depends on each iteration of the character. It's not so much a question of _"should_ Batman kill?"; more _"would this_ version of Batman kill?"
Would Kevin Conroy's Batman kill? Fuck no.
Would Christian Bale's Batman kill? Only when he had no choice.
Would Robert Pattinson's Batman kill? He certainly comes off as someone who would if he was pushed far enough, but usually keeps himself in check.
Would Michael Keaton's Batman kill? Yes (go back and watch his movies; he DOES kill).
So, it purely depends on the upbringing of each particular iteration.
Imagine Zack directing a Spider-Man movie. Now, that would be an interesting take. Of course, most fans wouldn't like it.
Batman was created as killer who carried a gun, the no kill rule was forced on all comics during a time when there were witch hunts against comics.
Batman killed after tnat and even used a gun again after that.
Bob Kane praised Burtons Batman who also killed as he did when he was created by Kane.
Bale killed, Kilmer killed.
Too bad he mostly never kills Joker or his other main enemies.
@@cooperjazz77He never experienced Superman like threat from them.. that's why
@@MovieMatrix_11 Im not talking about the movie alone. Whenever batman killed was it just because of superman?
So, you're saying you don't want Batman to be creative in how he solves problems.
perfect
Now I'll be honest, don't like many of Snyder's choices in the dceu while I loved some other of his ideas but even if U hate them. Movies were made 7 to 8 years ago, 11 for MoS. Zack was basically saying what we already knew from his interviews. why can't people just get along :/
I'm gonna let the filthy casuals in on a dirty secret: Batman kills. Not just in his debut back in '39, or in the '89 film, but many times in between and after.
ZACK SNYDER David Ayer is the all time best directors
And don't forget that they tried to say Superman doesn't kill either when he killed Zod but if you remember Christopher Reeves also broke zod's hand and dropped him off the cliff at Superman's Ice Palace home and Lois Lane punch the bad chick in the face and she fell down and then the big mute guy tried to fly and fell to his own death. That was on the big screen that was Christopher Reeves playing Superman and they wiped out Zod and his two henchmen so yeah Superman has killed on the big screen before and so I didn't get or understand why everyone was throwing a big fit when he killed Zod in Batman v Superman, because Batman and Superman have both killed on the big screen before
🇩🇪 Das waren Marvel Fans die verhindern wollen das DC erfolgreicher werden.
Because Snyder haters can't get Snyder out of their head. Imo maybe the internet these days make it worse.
I never had a problem with Superman killing Zod. Meanwhile Batman killing random criminals feels like bad writing and misunderstanding of the character.
If you're going to have batman kill then you have to have him kill his rouges gallery. it makes him a villian if hes just killing hinchmen but leaves guy's like the joker (especially after killing robin) to just escape from jail and continue the cycle.
3:58- The media using out of context or incomplete quotes is how they get engagement in the first place. They know it fuels reader curiosity that, in turn, gets them to click, comment, and share that, one person at a time. Not a defense of it- just a sad reality. But they will never admit that's what they're doing.
Exactly.
Great video. We know the real reason they are all kicking off. Btw you forgot to put ‘To the Snyder haters and Gunn Cult’ in the title. I sense your frustration on this one, you got your channel to run, I sense you enjoyed the SnyderVerse but you have a channel to run and just had to move on, but you’re doing you and the same people that this video was subtly made for are the same ones that you have been fair with by moving on but then they have episodes and show you how toxic they can be. As someone who loves and wants the SnyderVerse back I do hope Gunn surprises me and does the characters justice, there is no hate here from my side although I do hold some resentment against it but I adore the DC characters and want to just enjoy more plus get Snyderverse back somehow, but it is what it is.
I feel for you though bro, sitting in the middle of it just trying to do you when you know where the toxicity is coming from. 😂 peace n love 😭
Batman DOES'NT KILL, this is canon, but i am ok with Batman killing if it is useful to the story like in BVS
Thank you for putting this video out and setting the record straight. It's not about being a Snyder fan or not. It's simply putting factual context to the purposely made click baits to create contention unnecessarily to make money off our emotions.
I'd say that's just evil. The Joe Rogan interview was good. It's not complicated unless dishonest scoopers want to complicate it. Our country is already divided on politics. We don't need to further it in our comics. -OG
I hate how the media are changing and misconstruing Snyders words just to get clicks and headlines. Leave the poor guy alone. He’s not working on Dc anymore. Batman Vs Superman came out in 2016 it’s 2024 now and he’s working on Rebel Moon. Zack Snyder doesn’t deserve any of this hate against him. He’s just a guy passionate about these characters who wants to deconstruct them and tell an elseworlds story where they are more flawed and human. If you don’t like that you don’t have to watch it. No one’s forcing you to watch a movie from 8 years ago.
First and foremost the Dark knight returns is not canon, that version of the character is not the definitive verson of Batman as you are aware.Secondly in the DKR comic it was stated clearly that no one was killed during the incident, meaning that Batman did not kill the mutant gang member even in the animation version of the DKR, Batman only injured the mutant gang member without killing her. In the same non canon story line Batman said that using a gun was the weapon of the enemy. How can a director say that Batman not killing makes him irrelevant, i disagree Batman no killing rule make him more interesting because unlike him his villains like The Joke kills. The intrigue will be how Batman stops a villain like this without killing him and that is why Christopher Nolans Dark knight is such a master piece of cinema, it take Batman to his limit. Batman is the world greatest detective and his biggest weapon is his brilliant mind meaning Batman will always be step ahead of his enemy. When Batman starts killing he is no longer that character at his core, he might as well be The Punisher. As a writer or a director you are allowed to change certain elements of a character but you don't change the core that make the character what they are, this is what most people did not like about Zack Snyder's version of Batman
This was great! Well done. Some people and media are pure clowns
Love this in depth, very thoughtful and intelligent conversation.
Love Snyder's take, how he took one dimensional characters, specially Superman and WW, and made them relevant. And regarding Battfleck, I love this take and his redemption arc. He tested Batman's morals, his being and came out redeemed. Thank you for this video
There's absolutely nothing wrong with zacks comments. We live in a SOFT and unrealistic world. All zack is saying is that at some point in time a hero will be put in a No win situation. Hence MOS superman had to Kill zod to save that family and MILLIONS of people. It's UNREALISTIC that they would NEVER be put in a situation like that. Exactly why Zack is a 🐐 cause he speaks REALISM and people can't comprehend it.
Zack Snyder's Batman is my favourite Batman av all time
Thousands of people need to get a grip
That's the our movie news that I like. Unbiased and exposing the real facts.
Thanks!
*I’m sorry but you’re actually wrong* about Affleck being comic accurate to TDKR.. he wasn’t accurate. People who have read it KNOW it’s not accurate. Just cos he wears a suit of armour and fights superman does not make it accurate. In that comic he mentions how repulsed he is by guns and how he will never use a weapon of the enemy to take a life… that is not Affleck’s Batman.
Batman DOES kill in TDKR. Twice. 1. The “I believe you” scene. The Mutant holding a kid hostage is shot by Batman. It may not be a headshot, but color (or lack of) is crucial. The panel shows the kid in color, but the Mutant is in black and white and there’s what can only be described as blood splattered on the wall behind the Mutant. Batman killed that Mutant, full stop. 2. Joker’s death. Batman snaps Joker’s neck but Joker is somehow talking to him. Note the speech bubbles from Joker’s dialogue - they’re gray. Almost all speech bubbles are white, but the thought bubbles are color-coded to specific characters. Batman’s thought bubbles are gray. If Joker were alive after having his neck snapped by Batman, why are Joker’s speech bubbles color-coded to Batman’s color? Frank Miller is highlighting Batman’s personal denial of his breaking his own rule.
@KeiNakagawa7 - No he doesn’t - that mutant part is left ambiguous.. and would leave the rest of the story null and void - if he killed there. He loses control and paralyses Joker but is again ambiguous as to whether he lost control or tried to subdue him.
Didn't batfleck use guns in the knightmare scenes. The circumstances there weren't really good for baterangs. The whole point was to show that it had reached a point where he had to do whatever it takes to survive inorder to undo the chaotic world that he was in
He's human for crying out loud. He's bound to adapt inorder to survive.
Evidently YOU didn't read the comic bc Batman did kill in it and did use a gun. When he broke the rifle and called it the weapon of the enemy this was after returning to form, physically and mentally
@dobi287 - he was never killing people left right and centre - you just looked at the pretty pictures didn’t you? Dont be afraid to say it ☺️
I started to realize why I didn’t like Batman in the DCEU I think it’s mostly because he’s put in these completely avoidable situations just like other heroes in the DCEU. Like for example in the docks scene in BVS before the Batmobile chase part Batman shoots a tracker onto the truck transporting the kryptonite, then moments later he’s chasing them gun toting with the Batmobile and after that scene we see the tracker barley hanging on to the truck which Batman could’ve potentially lost his only lead and means to stop Superman. To me that’s not really putting these characters in these impossible situations it tells me they get themselves in these easily avoidable situations that contradicts Snyder’s statement. The warehouse I get, but that docks really shows me the type of character that Batman is and shows me that he’s making rookie mistakes even though that Batman is supposed to be a veteran.
When has there been a Batman movie where he’s perfect?
The LEGO Batman Movie. Is it hilarious that a toy version of the character is 10x better than Ben Affleck’s version?
Batman can’t kill isn’t even a thing. They brought that up because they didnt like Snyder’s fans. Batman always kills.
Much love ❤and Respect towards ZACK SNYDER Deborah Snyder Chris Terrio David Ayer ZSJL 2,3 REBEL MOON 1,2 Ayer CUT S.S BLACK ADAM SNYDERVERSE DCEU with heart ❤️ and Soul
Great take and it's what I've been saying all along. Most comic fans don't do their research, as there are several comics where Batman is killed. Heck, Batman killed Hugo Strange in his very first solo comic! Even before that, there were at least five back-to-back issues where Batman killed his enemies (Detective Comics #37, 38, 39 and others).
N Fun Fact :- He/Snider Never Read That TDKR Comics Either, Bcuz TDKR Isn't Killed Anyone.
N As Kevin Smith Said "It Seems Fundamentally Misleading Of Those Characters, It Like Snyder Didn't Read Bunch Of Others Comics And Just Only Read TDKR Comics And His Best/Favorit Superman vs Batman Part".🤷♀.
N Also Nolan's Batman DID Exactly RIGHT, What zHach Director Said & Try And Failure Failed, Bcuz His Superheroes Characters Didn't Handles This Way Like He Said Bcuz His Superheroes Characters Unnecessarily Kills Killer/Murders.🥴👎🤦♀.
N Also Bale Batman Only Didn't Kill In First Movie Bcuz In Temple Scane Ninjas Scapes They Only Injured, Even Ras Al Gul Explain "You Burn My House I Will You Burn Your House" & "Finally You Made A Choice" And Batman Said "Not Kill You But Not Saving You...AGAIN" N Two Face Was Accidentally Killed Bcuz Saving Kids And Then Retired, N Only Time Directly Kill Was Truck Driver And Break His Rules First Time And Bcz Truck Fall So Talia Al Gul Died Too. So Only 1 Directly Kill And Overall 3 In TDK Trilogy.
We the Snyder Fans believe in ZACK SNYDER and DAVID AYER 1,000 percent with heart ❤️ and Soul
Really glad you included the part that batman used guns in comics way back then
I 100% agree with our movie news. There is nothing that he said here that I do not agree with. very well thought out and put together.
Thanks!
I think it's dumb that superheroes have to a have a do not kill Canon label stamped to their foreheads. No one can ever say that there's no way you'd ever kill.
Soldiers kill on behalf of their country during war time. Are they murderers and should go to prison? What if an intruder broke into your home and was going to kill your family, but you had the opportunity to stop it with a single bullet?
My point is that life happens. Yes, I like to say I follow the basic ten commandments. One of them being Thou Shalt Not Kill. God is a just God. But He's also a merciful God. Depending on where you fall, I'm certain God can discern your intent in your mind upon judgment day.
No one should purposely seek to take another's life. But how wonderful would you feel knowing that, as a result, you saved another. That's the feeling of being a superhero. -OG
The funny part is that they are ok with Batman grooming children and ruining their lives but murder is too far for them. This is why Batman started loosing his popularity, all because of the awful writing and the moronic fan base aka the bat-cult. I've hated Batman for so long and it's because of those two main components.
#MAKETHEBATFLECKMOVIE
#MAKETHEBATMANVDEATHSTROKEMOVIE
You, my friend has just earned a subscriber. I really like how you been using your head and thinking about the stuff. Before you make you move.
Thank you mate, I really appreciate it
he is right batman no kill code is a joke and make him look weak amd im super batman fan
Kiton's Batman killed in both films and fans had no problem with that. Kilmer Batman killed in his movie and fans had no problem with that. Bale Batman killed in his films and fans had no problem with it. Ben Affleck's Batman was killed on screen and fans were suddenly blown away. The conclusion is simple: Today's fans are concentrated hypocrites. That is why I will always stand by Snyder and his work. Because Snyder, unlike the majority, is always open in his thoughts and desires. He is honest with himself and honest with his audience. A great director and a great artist.
Are you sure that nobody criticised those older movies? Also the fact that there might be other reasons why people love those movies? Its not like everyone loved absolutely everything else about Snyder's Batman and only the killing part changed their minds. And didnt Snyder defend it in the past saying it was proxy killing?
@@cooperjazz77 Show me at least one publication with criticism towards those films where Batman kills and it's bad, and then we'll talk. And so far, I'm only sure that Snyder is hated simply because it's hype.
@@kadatan Im talking about the time when those movies came out.
But like i said, there were a lot of other things people loved in those movies which might also have made them look past the killing. But im pretty sure you can find general criticims on all of these movies on youtube.
Snyder's DC movies have always been very divisive and criticism he gets is valid though i dont defend the hate.
Even look at Rebel moon's situation.
Yikes! Look superhero stories are cool and all, but they're not religion; they're art. Art is not religion. We like art to be respected, but we realize that it is not religion. Following a religion often requires a change in lifestyle; appreciating art just requires a desire for people to get the art right.
Half of the people who's watched Snyder's films are Snyder's haters. They suppose to hate his movies yet they can't stop watching them and talking about him... As Joe Rogan said, they do that because they hate themselves... Hamada came and gone, Keaton's Batman came back as well, Pattinson's Batman has a solo movie, and Gunn takes DC control, but Snyder keep living rent free in their little minds...
❤❤😊
I love how Zack Snyder continues to expose how soft and how much crybabies exist in the dc world. The dude drops the cold truth and they start crying everytime
It wasn’t “the truth” it just exemplified that he never understood these characters to begin with. Batman killing is a fundamental misunderstanding of the character.
Imagine if Punisher didn't kill and was light hearted Or if Blade didn't hunt vampires and was lighthearted.
stfu.. batman been killing since the golden age comics..get a life@@firstlast9846
@@firstlast9846of course he understands the characters. It’s a deliberate departure. Everybody knows this. Come on.
@@firstlast9846and yet his Batman was still 10x more badass and cooler then Bales and Pattinsons, don’t deny it either
REBELMOON2 IS A MASTERPIECE AND A GLOBAL PHENOMENON
lol I believe in god people will have a different opinion and that’s ok I’m never the one to bash or say you’re wrong I would like to hear why you believe what you do with that being said it’s not different with superhero’s why did he do what he did and talk theorize about it rather you agree or not
Bro why defend Batfleck when his predecessors like Keaton's Batman openly throw goons from heights pull from chopper bombs and fire goons like he doesn't care and still, his Batman is more perfect and loved than Batfleck...bro This is Hypocritisim and clear-mouth marketing and forced negative criticism which is cooked specially for Zack Snyder's Batman or his Movies. #ourmovienews
you know what's funny in the so called "Golden Age" batman didn't concern about the lives of his enemies. in Detective comics #27 was his first kill confirmed while he knocked Alfred Stryker into a vat of acid. Batman continued to murder criminals, this continued until he killed a guy he regret to kill. in batman #4 while batman and robin were fighting, batman said to robin we do not kill. so it was never an original idea, it just applied later in the comics, i get the reason why people can be upset about it, but if it was never in the first few comics, can you than still say its canon?
Why repeat whya zack said alot
In my opinion there’s nothing controversial about what he said. The people who have a problem with what he said must obviously not have much experience with real comics and never really thought about these characters in any meaningful way.
Zack Snyder comes from an older generation of comic book readers. The era of people like grant Morrison, Alan Moore , Frank Miller and Neil gaiman. Once you understand that era one should understand his takes
Great video as always mate
There is no interest in the new DCU. Most fans just want to #restorethesnyderverse !! So let’s get it done!
There had been so much discussion with just the logo reveal.
exactly
@@ComicBookGuy89874 dude ur a t r0ll
@@ComicBookGuy89874 how about get a life
@@ComicBookGuy89874 t r 0ll
The dc snyderverse only works as elseworlds than a whole cinematic universe story which was TDKR
U Zack Haters keep proving Zack's point 💯🤦🤣🤣
Keaton: Indirectly killed the Joker and Penguin, and also personally killed their supporters without hesitation (one even with a smile)
Bale: Killed the fake Ra's Al Ghul along with a number of League of Shadows fighters and left the real Ra's Al Ghul to die: "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you."
Then killed Two-Face saving Gordon's family and killed Talia to intercept the bomb.
Ben Affleck: Killed and maimed many of Luthor's mercenaries.
Robert Pattinson: During the pursuit of the Penguin, he had an accident that clearly did not go without victims.
Also versions of Batman from the series Gotham, Titans and Batwoman: the first killed Ra's Al Ghul (although he was not yet Batman) the other two killed the Joker.
And animation:
JL: World of War
Doom That Came To Gotham
The Dark Knight Returns, Parts 1 and 2
Flashpoint Batman
Batman vs. Dracula (and pretty much every undead or parademon in the comics or DCAMU)
Red son of Batman
After that, do you still care if he kills the rank and file?
I genuinely feel sorry for the people who hate Zack and attack him as a person over a movie. You don’t have to like his movies, you don’t even have to like what he has to say, but man, do the haters take it too far and demand that he loses his job because he made a movie they hate… But whatever. I don’t care anymore. Hate is useless. Resentment is corrosive.