I have several old A 20 inch rides, each just a little bit different. I have an 18 and a 17 I really love, too. Getting a good contrast between two is the trick: sometimes they'll sound good on their own, but the pitches clash against each other or against the hi hats. It's really hard: the room plays a role, too. Something I hadn't considered much until now: a 20 on the left side. No law says you have to play an 18 on the left, or even cymbals of two different diameters.
Cameron Fitzgerald I went and bought one after watching this and it sounded nothing like in the video haha. Luckily I returned it haha. Heed his advice! Try before you buy!
Another tip that guided me into my recent drum kit setup is “There is no cymbal that is exclusively meant for Jazz, or Rock. There are just cymbals. It’s up to the drummer to bring their sound to the equipment they have.” For instance, I play everything from Jazz, to Stoner Metal. But the cymbals I choose to use are typically associated with Jazz & Fusion, because I just like the way they sound. That said, That Overhammered ride, and the Kerope are my favorites!
i simply CANNOT comprehend why you don't millions of subscribers. from the other content i've seen on ur channel, you are a SUPER good drummer, and ur videos are super high quality and almost feel like informative short films lmao keep it up, PLEASE do not stop my man
Some other tips, from and "old guy:" Play the cymbal from the bell to the edge and listen for a "sweet spot." Bring a friend, stand about 10' away and listen to the cymbal while your friend plays it. A cymbal will sound very different to the audience than it does sitting behind it. When you play the bell, play it with the "neck" (between the bead and shoulder) of the stick to bring out the full sound. Crash and ride the cymbal. Ask if you can return it within a day if you don't like it. What sounds good in a store, may not sound as good in your house or while playing with the band. Bring some other cymbals that you'll be playing with the ride with and listen to hear if it's a complement or a contrast and which one you like. Don't listen to too many cymbals at one time. Go from cymbal to cymbal, strike it a couple of times then, return to the ones that immediately caught your attention. BTW, excellent video. Dream & the first Agop are my choices.
I’ve been playing drums for many many years, and everything you said about rides especially is so true. The other thing that drives me crazy is snare drums. I’ve had so many different snare drums in my life, it isn’t funny. For many drummers the search for the perfect ride and cymbal set up never ends.
If you can, get the 22" Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride. That should end your search. Funny thing is, it looks dull and tarnished, like a piece of junk, but the sound is awesome. I'd like to hear it from a distance, as suggested by another poster. It came with a nice medium-brown bag. Very classy.
It looks like everyone loved the Dream cymbal... and I did too...But that Lenny White cymbal really caught my attention the most ... Beautiful sound...Thanks for sharing these.
The Jeff Hamilton Bosphorus is my favorite sounding one, and I like the warm undertones. I actually use a 22" Istanbul Jazz ride as my main ride cymbal, yet it sounds a bit darker in pitch than the one played on this video. I definitely agree with the philosophy of trying as many cymbals as you can when selecting a ride. I believe I tried around 200 rides before I ultimately decided to go with my 22" Istanbul, and it turned out to be a selection for me.
That Bosphorus ride is definitely one of my favorites too. Warm undertones and super controllable. Its one of the two cymbals in my current setup! Thanks for watching!
Hey man, great video. You’re doing the drumming world a great service! My fave on this was surprisingly the Dream Dark Matter, followed by the 20” Bosphorus ride, even though I’m primarily a Zildjian guy. Thanks!
Thank you Julian for all these vids and so much praises for your top level playing and taste. You are a great musician, yet with humility, you share your doubts on cymbals, the quest for « the » perfect ride cymbal every jazz drummer dreams of. To my ears, the Dream dark matter and the bosphorus 20 hammer would be the choice in a small group context and you can imagine them in situation. It is fun to see that you seem to search a 22’’ « old K-ish » grail but some of your prestigious 22s remain in the bag : I live the same thing after 35 years of playing :-)). I sold a 22 dark complex ride, I didn’t liked a 22 medium thin low cons, ecc. I actually I play an Istanbul Mehmet 22 jazz ride (2670g) from the 2000’s and 2 Bosphorus, a 22 Hammer and a 19’’Hammer, both picked at the factory with the help of Ibrahim. They sound great, even when recording, but gave not an end to the quest!
Awesome, loved doing the blind test on this vid. Personally I loved the Istanbul agop JR , but they all are so different it’s great to hear the comparisons ..
Great cymbal nerd vid. Weight, profile, taper, bell are my priorities aside from diameter. But really first priority is the musical setting/group you envision and sound and then the intervals with your other cymbals to make a cymbal orchestra. I bring my arsenal when selecting cymbals from now on. Expensive hobby...
love those first two Zildjians. That Dream ride sounds great too--reminds me a lot of my Sabian HH Pandora ride (which is the perfect dry ride to my ear). I think the overhammered K Con was my favorite
let me start out by saying wow 20 ride cymbals thats impressive on its own. i,m a new drummer this month be a year playing and i found it funny to myself that ive been playing on a paiste alpha 20 in power ride that i feel sounds amazing loud crisp and clean, and after listening to your 20 cymbals only made me like mine more witch kinda sucks because im been looking to up grade my ride cymbal this last month. So my advice to someone wanting to a new ride cymbal is sometimes a low end cymbal can be the best cymbal for your ears... ThanQ 4 Sharing your impressive ride collection... smiles and keep on drumming
Having just bought some new cymbals, I did all of what you recommended before seeing this video. The fact that I'm a very old fart who has played drums for over 55 years may have had something to do with it. Your advice is spot on!!!!!!
Flat rides sounds so specific ! I have a 20'' Paiste 2002 Black label flatride, and it sounds not so different from the Zildjian you've played at the end! My fav one are by far, the Dream Dark Matter and the Bosphorus China with the rivets, they sounds insanely good ! I think i'll try some Big chinas !
Thanks for the advice and comparison. To me there are several important considerations. The sound of cymbals is very different sitting on the kit vs listening in an audience. Some cymbals with broad low washes sound great on the kit but are simply lost in a mix or large acoustic venue; say with a big jazz band. Also some cymbal brands have very wide variability in their cymbals. Dream Bliss is an example. My thoughts are that I would only buy a Dream cymbal from a local seller, as you suggest, where you have many to select from. If you simply have to buy cymbals on line and don't want to hassle with returns, I find Paiste Cymbals to be quite consistent. Personally I like the Zildjian Constantinoples and Sweet K line up as they sound good at the kit, and from the audience. That said, I own Paiste Masters, Signatures, Zildjian As and Ks, Meinl, Istanbul Mehmet that I select from depending on whether the gig is ensemble or big band, Jazz, Funk or Rock/Pop.
I studied from a great S.F. drummer when I was young named Jim Zimmerman. When I asked him what to look for in a ride cymbal one of the things he told me is that you should be able to get a deep full crash out of it. If it's too heavy you'll never be able to do that. This is coming from a real journeyman working drummer who at that time viewed the ride as the workhorse of the kit. Today we have so many choices and tend to segregate sounds, but in the old days cymbals were inconsistent and often hard to find , such as the original K's, and you needed to obtain a cymbal that could do a lot. For me shoulder crashes and the rate of decay and controllability is very important too. Does it sound good playing simple light quarter notes as well as busy more forceful patterns? How does it sound when you really max it out like a full swell with mallets. I like your comment on bringing your own sticks; you could actually bring your whole stick bag and see what brushes or mallets sound like on it.
Thanks for your nice video. Great cymbals. I have Istanbul Agop Turk Jazz Rides, a 22 with a steel rivet and a 20 without. Great for small band, acoustic jazz. An Agop Signature 22 Medium Ride, a Paiste Traditional 22 Light Ride and a Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22 Ride for big band and electric music. A Zildjian Kerope 19 Crash Ride, a Sabian HHX 21 3-point Ride, a Paiste Masters 22 Swish with 6 steel rivets and a Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22 China, also with 6 steel rivets.
Man second one of your videos I've watched and I'm dying for you to crash into these. On the edge Haaard, and shoulder shank right in the middle like bill stewart, would tell these awesome cymbals whole story.
Yeah my Favs are my Istanbul Agop OM series 24” and my Tony Williams Tribute 22” from Istanbul Mehmet. You have to play before you buy and rivets won't make it better my fav china is the Agop Signature 22” the only cymbal I bought w/o playing but my guy at Memphis drum shop was able to match it perfectly to my tastes. This guy was spot on Great Vid!
It's the end of 2022 and I am just finding this great video! So if you still have that Epoch or the Kerope and you want to sell them let me know!! Those are my favorites!
If I had to pick one it would be that Kerope. And I like that Agop and the 20" Bosphorus.Those three are in the zone for me. I don't go for too much garbage can, but for that sound that Dark Matter is outstanding.
I think a lot of this is useful stuff, but also keep in mind that you’re not really gonna know what it sounds like until you’re in the practice space or at the gig with the live band. Most drum shops or music stores have a pretty fair return policy, especially if you’re buying new. Just buy it and go check it out. Don’t sweat it.
This is so true. I had some second thoughts about a couple of cymbals but once I played them live and heard them in the mix, it was perfect and I could rest assured.
I liked the dark matter and the Zildjian flat ride, which surprised me. The absolute worst one was the Bosphorus China type ride, sounded like an old beat up metal garbage can lid. My favorite that you don’t have or didn’t demonstrate is my Istambul Agop 24” special edition jazz-Tony Williams ride, 24” 2676 grams, not bad for 24”, so versatile for a 24” jazz cymbal. I use it for all types of music along side my Paiste 19” crash ride. Great video, thanks, very helpful!
Was lucky enough to pick up #72 of Sabian's Jack DeJonette's Shimmering 75 ride. Saw it used on GC website and took a chance. Warm, articulate but still crashable and a great bell. Never selling it
I’m currently at 9 rides lol still searching. Great video they all have their own thing going on the kerope sounded nice with the rivets I have a 22 medium it’s a beautiful cymbal they are great I got a 18 and 20 on the same day bought one went back bought the other too ha haaaa. Fn cymbals the dark matter sounded really nice too kind of liked em all except the flat 18 but I’m just not a huge flat ride fan. I’m new to the channel can’t wait to check out your videos. I’m currently about to pull the trigger on a Nicky Moon ride but I have to order it and hope I like it I wish I could play the actual cymbal. I’ve ordered one once before and yup didn’t like it at all but live and learn. Like you said about matching the sound from a recording I once brought my headphones played the song I liked the ride sound and went around to find the closest sounding one it’s a great way to find what your looking for. Also you can bring your other cymbals to make sure the new one goes with it. I have an 18 k custom dark crash and a 19 k dark thin and they almost sound identical it’s crazy so I don’t really use them together because they don’t go well etc. Happy drumming and great collection bro 🥁🔥
I like is the most is a Dream Dark Matter flat ride. Try using UFIP, they are fantastic cymbals. Natural Series and Experience Series they are the best for jazz.
I like the Dark Matter, the K Con, and although I might not use it in a jazz context, that A flat ride has some zing that would work well in funk or hip-hop.
@@JulianArcher Yeah definitely going to try to find one that I can play first. You’re so right about that statement, I’ve bought at least one jazz ride that I was not happy with because I didn’t truly know how it sounded. As is a lot of jazz drummers’ dreams are, I hope one day I’ll find my way into the VJO, going to temple U next year and this video definitely made some great points. At the end of the day though, the most important component is HOW you play that cymbal.
The Epoch and A Flat Ride are my favorites. I usually prefer larger flat rides (I have a 20" K Custom that is the only cymbal I have that I don't wish was any different), but your flat ride is great. It must be great with a piano or guitar trio. I like the Epoch for the extra weight it has, though it still sounds much lighter than it is. But I like the stick definition, and people I'd played with tend to love more stick definition. I've come to really like heavier ride cymbals for jazz, based on the sounds that drummers like Jack DeJohnette and Paul Motian have played (the 602 Dark Ride) or Jon Christensen with his extra-heavy old K. Dark, heavy cymbals can be amazing. I don't have any cymbals like those, and nobody makes anything quite like them now.
@DrummerFlex - I love love love those 70’s 80’s ECM records of DeJohnette, Motian and Christensen - their flat rides and heavier traditional rides… I have a 2520g 22 K Con med thin high that with a few pieces of gaffers tape sounds close to that dreamy heavy ride sound but I’m on a so far fruitless search for a flat ride that I like. @Julian Archer - great content, man - keep it up!
@@craigwilliams501 I have a 22" K Con Medium Thin High too. I've experimented with tape a lot, and it's in the same weight range as yours. With tape it has a nice ping but lacks body.
Every piano player deeply appreciates a great ride cymbal ,even if they're not awear of it, because nothing can cover up the best sonic qualities of a piano more than a lousy ride cymbal.
Getting old I guess, just like the cymbals I use, lol. Old school K Zildjian Istanbul (which will bankrupt you on either Ebay or Reverb) intermediate stamp, Paiste Formula 602 preserial, finally the EAK Zildjian to round out my arsenal for jazz applications. I usually end up with the heavier ones w/stiffer surface as I get better rebounds because I am more the light touch technique from being corrupted by the old schoolers, lol. I have many other models for rock applications, A Zildjian, Z Zildjian, (not planet z), UFIP Bionic, & Paiste 2002. I really liked that Kerope you were playing, and the Dream could pass as a China application. There was a couple others but my short term is questionable (?) LOL but not as much as the present President. Yes, cymbal collecting is an expensive hobby, although 90% of my collection was purchased used, & many ppl think I'm nuts for such a hobby.. Ahhhhhh, they don't understand drummers and our love for our girls who shine and sing when properly stimulated, lol. And, buying cymbals keeps us out of the taverns, lol, and the other girls, like a bad tempered wife, are happy for that. Is good to see the craft being passed to you younger guys and yourself, which the girls will continue to be in good hands. Keep swinging Bro.
The original páiste 602 rides are my favourite. I play a vintage UFIP ritmo myself. I like your agop ride the most in this video. I think you use Vic firth jazz 8a sticks?
Hi. Last week I changed an Istanbul green label hats for a used Dream flat bell 24". It sound amaizing. I like a Constantinople for your collection. Thank s. My apologies for my english.
I like this guide youve put together. Really well thought out and very understandable advice for one to consider for the sake of their wallet and their time searching. If I may add, since my ride collection has now reached 7, (I guess 8 cause I have a dream bliss crash ride 20 but I never ride it) I'd say to not be afraid to think outside the box as to what kind of sound to achieve. These days, fuckin dudes are tearing it up using jazz rides on their math rock albums or using an earth ride from reverb (3000g+) for jazz. At times, the timbre can be a limitless journey if you believe. Like wearing a pair of sunglasses you think you can't pull off, you can if you try. Some cymbals I hear that would be built for an application just don't do it for me, I feel. So yeah, don't buy in to jargon and marketing, go with what your heart says and if it is unconventional, fuck it. Also, shop old/discontinued if you can. Lots of cymbals *cough* zildjian paiste *cough* just aren't made the way they used to, so def take advantage of of the used market out there. Great job!
I just came across this video a couple hours after having that exact experience - opening a brand new cymbal I had shipped and it was just…. bad. I went straight to my local shop and found a ride I like way better for half the price. Doh! I guess it goes that way sometimes.
When buying a cymbal I wil listen to music without drums on my phone (for instance some tracks from Christian McBride - Conversations with Christian), earbuds in. This way I get more of an idea on what an audience might hear.
The Overhammered and Dark Matter are my choices. There was a shop where the owner had an upstairs cymbal room. So concerened about stick marks the owner would give a little felt mallet. so I'd sneak in a stick in my coat and play until I heard him running up the stairs. As you said, you can't by it until you hear it.
@@JulianArcher Glad you got a laugh. Still have my Istanbul K that I bought in 1978. Given war broke out then the store manager said this is end of the line. Asking why he answered that the are making bullets now. Paid $110. Priceless. Thanks for the videos.
@@petersimonson9145 cool story. What war was it? I tried to look up some info on wars in 1978 but I can only find afganistan/Soviet war in 1979. I'm a fan of history so I was just curious. Thanks.
The dream is great ! I’m looking for a ride that has some nice sizzle yet has a explosive almost gong like quality when hit hard. Would you say the dream flat earth would be the best for that ?
I wish there was an easy answer, but I would go play a few different dreams, and see if any of them have the qualities you’re looking for before you purchase one! :)
478 subscribers only? Mate, what the heck your channel is awesome and your videos are very well produced. I see a lot of potential in this channel! Can you do a video on how to approach a jazz drum kit? I've recently transitioned from a fast tempo rock perspective where I was looking for loudness only. In jazz I see more dynamics in playing, more subtle details, etc. How would you tune your drums? Which drumheads would you use? etc? I think that could be very interesting! ps: if you're into motorcycle do the RN 40 in Argentina someday ;)
Thanks so much Iván!! Makes me really happy to read such a kind comment! These are all awesome suggestions, I’ll write them down. I’ll have to check out RN 40, sounds awesome!
Idk if you've had any experience with the Sabian Big and Ugly series, but I'm considering the 24" HH Nova and can't find one to play in person (especially not now due to the whole "stay at home" business). What do you think of them, if you've had a chance to try them out? Love your stuff, btw!
Thanks for the kind words!! I have played a few of those Big and Uglys. I have played a couple I like, and also quite a few I don’t like. I would say the most virus-friendly option to find a good one would be to buy a cymbal that is matched to an audio file or video online (mycymbal.com or cymbalsonly.com). There is still a little risk involved (because they most likely play different sticks than you, and you don’t know how the cymbal is recorded. Although there is still risk, there is much less than just buying a cymbal on Sabians website, guitar center etc. Hope this helps, and good luck cymbal hunting!
I have the 22" Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride, and the 14" hats from the same series. Amazing. You don't want to know what they cost. They are from Turkey. Zildjian moved from there and since then, their stuff isn't as good as it was. The top jazz guys in the 50s and 60s had Turkish Zildjians. Those were awesome. I also have three different 22" Zildjian K Constantinople rides, and they are very good. None of mine, though, have that nice trebly sound that you hear on the classic early 60s recordings. My Agop ride was purchased in Manhattan and its original owner, an Australian, had it with him at a jazz club. Bill Stewart saw it and tried it out and he loved it. I bought it from the Australian on eBay. The odd thing is that I am a reed player. I hoped that a drummer would use these, but it never happened. I wish I could show the hats to Jo Jones. He would have loved the sound. For those who don't know, Jo had a fantastic hi-hat style in that classic Basie rhythm section. That was arguably the best-ever rhythm section - even though I am into the hard bop style.
I like to go by Jeff Hamilton’s philosophy: a good “ride” cymbal should be able to be a great crash cymbal, AND a great ride cymbal! My favorite ride cymbals are also very crashable. :)
My life changed when I realized on many of the old records what I thought were old Ks were actually old As.
Yes! There’s lots of incredible sounding old A’s!
I feel that!
Right. An old friend of Jeff Hamilton urged I keep that old 20” A in play. I did gigs at CBGB with in the 70s! It won’t replace my jazz rides, though.
The older As had a darker sound .
I have several old A 20 inch rides, each just a little bit different. I have an 18 and a 17 I really love, too. Getting a good contrast between two is the trick: sometimes they'll sound good on their own, but the pitches clash against each other or against the hi hats. It's really hard: the room plays a role, too. Something I hadn't considered much until now: a 20 on the left side. No law says you have to play an 18 on the left, or even cymbals of two different diameters.
That 20" Dream "Dark Matter" is an amazing sounding cymbal.
Thank you, I definitely love that one too!
By far my fave of the group too
I thought so too it surprised me how much I liked it
Cameron Fitzgerald I went and bought one after watching this and it sounded nothing like in the video haha. Luckily I returned it haha. Heed his advice! Try before you buy!
Mavao lol I’ve learned the hard way as well!!
Another tip that guided me into my recent drum kit setup is “There is no cymbal that is exclusively meant for Jazz, or Rock. There are just cymbals. It’s up to the drummer to bring their sound to the equipment they have.”
For instance, I play everything from Jazz, to Stoner Metal. But the cymbals I choose to use are typically associated with Jazz & Fusion, because I just like the way they sound.
That said, That Overhammered ride, and the Kerope are my favorites!
and I suspect not very good at any of these forms.
hypocrite @@jonblachley1911
i simply CANNOT comprehend why you don't millions of subscribers. from the other content i've seen on ur channel, you are a SUPER good drummer, and ur videos are super high quality and almost feel like informative short films lmao
keep it up, PLEASE do not stop my man
Thank you so much! Reading comments like this is why I do it!! I’ll keep the videos coming, and thanks again for the support! :)
Some other tips, from and "old guy:" Play the cymbal from the bell to the edge and listen for a "sweet spot." Bring a friend, stand about 10' away and listen to the cymbal while your friend plays it. A cymbal will sound very different to the audience than it does sitting behind it.
When you play the bell, play it with the "neck" (between the bead and shoulder) of the stick to bring out the full sound. Crash and ride the cymbal. Ask if you can return it within a day if you don't like it. What sounds good in a store, may not sound as good in your house or while playing with the band. Bring some other cymbals that you'll be playing with the ride with and listen to hear if it's a complement or a contrast and which one you like. Don't listen to too many cymbals at one time. Go from cymbal to cymbal, strike it a couple of times then, return to the ones that immediately caught your attention. BTW, excellent video. Dream & the first Agop are my choices.
Great observation. Btw I like agop the best and maybe dark matter after.
Tone on the 20” Jeff Hamilton is crazy. Can almost hear the snare comping along when you demo it
I’ve been playing drums for many many years, and everything you said about rides especially is so true. The other thing that drives me crazy is snare drums. I’ve had so many different snare drums in my life, it isn’t funny. For many drummers the search for the perfect ride and cymbal set up never ends.
Thanks for saying that, Chuck! It definitely seems to be an endless search!
If you can, get the 22" Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride. That should end your search. Funny thing is, it looks dull and tarnished, like a piece of junk, but the sound is awesome. I'd like to hear it from a distance, as suggested by another poster. It came with a nice medium-brown bag. Very classy.
finally, I've been looking for this vid for ages. Thanks!!
It looks like everyone loved the Dream cymbal... and I did too...But that Lenny White cymbal really caught my attention the most ... Beautiful sound...Thanks for sharing these.
That epoch is definitely one of my favorites too. I used it as my main ride for a long time!
@@JulianArcher I can see why! I might have to get me one
I came across this video while researching a new cymbal purchase. You’ve inspired me to be more patient in my search.
I’m really glad I could help!! I wish I had someone tell me to do that at an earlier stage!
The kerope and the Jeff Hamilton ride were the best! Really dug the dream one too!
Thanks Sigge!! Those are definitely some of my favorites too!
The Jeff Hamilton Bosphorus is my favorite sounding one, and I like the warm undertones. I actually use a 22" Istanbul Jazz ride as my main ride cymbal, yet it sounds a bit darker in pitch than the one played on this video. I definitely agree with the philosophy of trying as many cymbals as you can when selecting a ride. I believe I tried around 200 rides before I ultimately decided to go with my 22" Istanbul, and it turned out to be a selection for me.
That Bosphorus ride is definitely one of my favorites too. Warm undertones and super controllable. Its one of the two cymbals in my current setup! Thanks for watching!
Love those Dream Dark matter cymbals, especially the mini bells!
This is my first time watching this channel. Amazing content. ❤
Hey man, great video. You’re doing the drumming world a great service! My fave on this was surprisingly the Dream Dark Matter, followed by the 20” Bosphorus ride, even though I’m primarily a Zildjian guy. Thanks!
Those are the two I play all the time!! Good taste :)
definite plus one for these two beauties.
Thank you Julian for all these vids and so much praises for your top level playing and taste. You are a great musician, yet with humility, you share your doubts on cymbals, the quest for « the » perfect ride cymbal every jazz drummer dreams of. To my ears, the Dream dark matter and the bosphorus 20 hammer would be the choice in a small group context and you can imagine them in situation. It is fun to see that you seem to search a 22’’ « old K-ish » grail but some of your prestigious 22s remain in the bag : I live the same thing after 35 years of playing :-)). I sold a 22 dark complex ride, I didn’t liked a 22 medium thin low cons, ecc. I actually I play an Istanbul Mehmet 22 jazz ride (2670g) from the 2000’s and 2 Bosphorus, a 22 Hammer and a 19’’Hammer, both picked at the factory with the help of Ibrahim. They sound great, even when recording, but gave not an end to the quest!
So many great tips and well done! As a fellow jazz drummer you hit all the good points.
Thanks Manny! I’m glad you enjoyed it, and I appreciate you saying that!!
Just bought my first, a 20” bosphrpus 1600 era ride 🫡
Awesome, loved doing the blind test on this vid. Personally I loved the Istanbul agop JR , but they all are so different it’s great to hear the comparisons ..
Very cool, the blind test is killing! Thanks Stephen!
The Zildjian k con 22 overhammered is the best sounding of the ones you demonstrated.
Love that cymbal too! Was my main ride for a few years, need to break it out again!
I agree. That was my favorite out of this bunch!
Yes, to my ears, it sound very close to the Dark Complex Thin Ride (first run), which was developped with Bill Stewart
The best to you.
Dang.... never thought about hitting cyms with my own sticks... easy yet super sage advice!
Definitely an easy way to get closer to how the cymbal will sound with your setup! :)
Great cymbal nerd vid. Weight, profile, taper, bell are my priorities aside from diameter. But really first priority is the musical setting/group you envision and sound and then the intervals with your other cymbals to make a cymbal orchestra. I bring my arsenal when selecting cymbals from now on. Expensive hobby...
It is quite an expensive hobby lol!
So true! in time all these things will reveal themselves. great video.
Absolutely! Thanks for watching!
Very informative and it's nice to have it laid out like this. The endless search......
Thanks again George, glad you enjoyed it!
I love that Zildjian 18” flat ride
love those first two Zildjians. That Dream ride sounds great too--reminds me a lot of my Sabian HH Pandora ride (which is the perfect dry ride to my ear). I think the overhammered K Con was my favorite
Love that overhammer too! Thanks Tyler!
let me start out by saying wow 20 ride cymbals thats impressive on its own. i,m a new drummer this month be a year playing and i found it funny to myself that ive been playing on a paiste alpha 20 in power ride that i feel sounds amazing loud crisp and clean, and after listening to your 20 cymbals only made me like mine more witch kinda sucks because im been looking to up grade my ride cymbal this last month. So my advice to someone wanting to a new ride cymbal is sometimes a low end cymbal can be the best cymbal for your ears... ThanQ 4 Sharing your impressive ride collection... smiles and keep on drumming
Having just bought some new cymbals, I did all of what you recommended before seeing this video. The fact that I'm a very old fart who has played drums for over 55 years may have had something to do with it. Your advice is spot on!!!!!!
I really appreciate you saying this man!! Thank you so much!
The 20" Dream "Dark Matter" is my favorite! It sounds amazing!
Love that cymbal! Playing it right now!
I like that 20" Jeff Hamilton, it really wobbles. And also liking the 18" flat ride.
The Zildjian over hammered ride and Jeff Hamilton ride; those would be my go-to cymbals of this set.
20 in Dream Dark matter was my favorite! Sounded great!
The 22" Istanbul was nice. Thanks for the video!!
thanks! this really helped me out!
Great video dude love the advice on buying cymbals
Thanks Ryan! Glad you dug it.
Flat rides sounds so specific ! I have a 20'' Paiste 2002 Black label flatride, and it sounds not so different from the Zildjian you've played at the end! My fav one are by far, the Dream Dark Matter and the Bosphorus China with the rivets, they sounds insanely good ! I think i'll try some Big chinas !
Thanks for the advice and comparison. To me there are several important considerations. The sound of cymbals is very different sitting on the kit vs listening in an audience. Some cymbals with broad low washes sound great on the kit but are simply lost in a mix or large acoustic venue; say with a big jazz band. Also some cymbal brands have very wide variability in their cymbals. Dream Bliss is an example. My thoughts are that I would only buy a Dream cymbal from a local seller, as you suggest, where you have many to select from. If you simply have to buy cymbals on line and don't want to hassle with returns, I find Paiste Cymbals to be quite consistent. Personally I like the Zildjian Constantinoples and Sweet K line up as they sound good at the kit, and from the audience. That said, I own Paiste Masters, Signatures, Zildjian As and Ks, Meinl, Istanbul Mehmet that I select from depending on whether the gig is ensemble or big band, Jazz, Funk or Rock/Pop.
Dude I’m in love with that Dream Dark Matter Ride now but I keep remembering what you said about try before you buy haha. Gotta fight the temptation!
Haha I understand the feeling! Good job not caving in lol!
I studied from a great S.F. drummer when I was young named Jim Zimmerman. When I asked him what to look for in a ride cymbal one of the things he told me is that you should be able to get a deep full crash out of it. If it's too heavy you'll never be able to do that. This is coming from a real journeyman working drummer who at that time viewed the ride as the workhorse of the kit. Today we have so many choices and tend to segregate sounds, but in the old days cymbals were inconsistent and often hard to find , such as the original K's, and you needed to obtain a cymbal that could do a lot. For me shoulder crashes and the rate of decay and controllability is very important too. Does it sound good playing simple light quarter notes as well as busy more forceful patterns? How does it sound when you really max it out like a full swell with mallets. I like your comment on bringing your own sticks; you could actually bring your whole stick bag and see what brushes or mallets sound like on it.
I have a Sabian HHX prototype 21 inch that sounds similar to the dream dark matter.. love that smoky roar.
That overhammered K. Con. reminds me of Art Taylor's ride on Giant Steps.
Such a useful video, Julian, thanks man! :)
Glad I could help! Thanks Tim! :)
You've got great taste my man. Didn't expect to ever like Zildjians but you showed me the way haha - that kerope is pretty sweet.
Haha awesome!
Thanks for your nice video. Great cymbals. I have Istanbul Agop Turk Jazz Rides, a 22 with a steel rivet and a 20 without. Great for small band, acoustic jazz. An Agop Signature 22 Medium Ride, a Paiste Traditional 22 Light Ride and a Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22 Ride for big band and electric music. A Zildjian Kerope 19 Crash Ride, a Sabian HHX 21 3-point Ride, a Paiste Masters 22 Swish with 6 steel rivets and a Formula 602 Modern Essentials 22 China, also with 6 steel rivets.
Man second one of your videos I've watched and I'm dying for you to crash into these. On the edge Haaard, and shoulder shank right in the middle like bill stewart, would tell these awesome cymbals whole story.
Yeah my Favs are my Istanbul Agop OM series 24” and my Tony Williams Tribute 22” from Istanbul Mehmet. You have to play before you buy and rivets won't make it better my fav china is the Agop Signature 22” the only cymbal I bought w/o playing but my guy at Memphis drum shop was able to match it perfectly to my tastes. This guy was spot on Great Vid!
Thanks Ramon! Those are all great cymbals!
Julian Archer hey thanks a lot . Time for how to choose a snare drum vid
It's the end of 2022 and I am just finding this great video! So if you still have that Epoch or the Kerope and you want to sell them let me know!! Those are my favorites!
If I had to pick one it would be that Kerope. And I like that Agop and the 20" Bosphorus.Those three are in the zone for me. I don't go for too much garbage can, but for that sound that Dark Matter is outstanding.
Great upload...good info, nice editing and demos!
Thanks man! Glad you enjoyed!
Wow I love your channel!!!! Thank you so much
Thanks so much!! Makes me really happy to hear that!
Thank you for useful information and presentation. 22" kerope sounds hot!
Thanks for the kind words! I love that cymbal too!
I think a lot of this is useful stuff, but also keep in mind that you’re not really gonna know what it sounds like until you’re in the practice space or at the gig with the live band. Most drum shops or music stores have a pretty fair return policy, especially if you’re buying new. Just buy it and go check it out. Don’t sweat it.
This is so true. I had some second thoughts about a couple of cymbals but once I played them live and heard them in the mix, it was perfect and I could rest assured.
The kereope and dream black!
Fav was that rivetless Bosporus.
The Dream dark matter was so good to me, it sounded really sweet, I'm gonna look for the 22" model and if I can play it. Really nice video ! subed.
Thanks so much for subscribing! That’s definitely one of my favorite cymbals too!
my favorite too
If anyone is curious... I had one and it weighed around 2150 grams. They sound really great and are reasonably priced.
Christopher Bloom awesome, thanks man!
I've got the 22"... it is really fun to play. it has a great crash too
I really like the hammer series rides. Got my eye on a 22 for Xmas.
Love that cymbal! Try to play before you buy! :)
I liked the dark matter and the Zildjian flat ride, which surprised me. The absolute worst one was the Bosphorus China type ride, sounded like an old beat up metal garbage can lid. My favorite that you don’t have or didn’t demonstrate is my Istambul Agop 24” special edition jazz-Tony Williams ride, 24” 2676 grams, not bad for 24”, so versatile for a 24” jazz cymbal. I use it for all types of music along side my Paiste 19” crash ride. Great video, thanks, very helpful!
Do you have any advice for someone who doesn't have drum shops to go to in real life and has to buy online?
Was lucky enough to pick up #72 of Sabian's Jack DeJonette's Shimmering 75 ride. Saw it used on GC website and took a chance. Warm, articulate but still crashable and a great bell. Never selling it
What do you think of the Paiste rides ?for jazz ? Thx
I’m currently at 9 rides lol still searching. Great video they all have their own thing going on the kerope sounded nice with the rivets I have a 22 medium it’s a beautiful cymbal they are great I got a 18 and 20 on the same day bought one went back bought the other too ha haaaa. Fn cymbals the dark matter sounded really nice too kind of liked em all except the flat 18 but I’m just not a huge flat ride fan. I’m new to the channel can’t wait to check out your videos. I’m currently about to pull the trigger on a Nicky Moon ride but I have to order it and hope I like it I wish I could play the actual cymbal. I’ve ordered one once before and yup didn’t like it at all but live and learn. Like you said about matching the sound from a recording I once brought my headphones played the song I liked the ride sound and went around to find the closest sounding one it’s a great way to find what your looking for. Also you can bring your other cymbals to make sure the new one goes with it. I have an 18 k custom dark crash and a 19 k dark thin and they almost sound identical it’s crazy so I don’t really use them together because they don’t go well etc. Happy drumming and great collection bro 🥁🔥
Just bought a 22" 1960 zildjian avedis swish knocker off of Ebay today, I'm so excited for it!!! Great comparison, what do you think of your kerope?
the dream one is amazing!
Istanbul 22" for me! I dunno, istanbul cymbals have this smoothness to them that i really like
I like is the most is a Dream Dark Matter flat ride. Try using UFIP, they are fantastic cymbals. Natural Series and Experience Series they are the best for jazz.
I like the Dark Matter, the K Con, and although I might not use it in a jazz context, that A flat ride has some zing that would work well in funk or hip-hop.
Good tips for non-jazz cymbals too, cheers!
Awesome! Have a good one!
That bosphorus hammer series China sounds more like Mel Lewis’s China than the one zildjian made to specifically sound like Mel’s China. Damn
I very much agree!! Jeff definitely tried to model it after Mr. Lewis’ cymbal!
@@JulianArcher Yeah definitely going to try to find one that I can play first. You’re so right about that statement, I’ve bought at least one jazz ride that I was not happy with because I didn’t truly know how it sounded. As is a lot of jazz drummers’ dreams are, I hope one day I’ll find my way into the VJO, going to temple U next year and this video definitely made some great points. At the end of the day though, the most important component is HOW you play that cymbal.
The Epoch and A Flat Ride are my favorites. I usually prefer larger flat rides (I have a 20" K Custom that is the only cymbal I have that I don't wish was any different), but your flat ride is great. It must be great with a piano or guitar trio. I like the Epoch for the extra weight it has, though it still sounds much lighter than it is. But I like the stick definition, and people I'd played with tend to love more stick definition. I've come to really like heavier ride cymbals for jazz, based on the sounds that drummers like Jack DeJohnette and Paul Motian have played (the 602 Dark Ride) or Jon Christensen with his extra-heavy old K. Dark, heavy cymbals can be amazing. I don't have any cymbals like those, and nobody makes anything quite like them now.
@DrummerFlex - I love love love those 70’s 80’s ECM records of DeJohnette, Motian and Christensen - their flat rides and heavier traditional rides… I have a 2520g 22 K Con med thin high that with a few pieces of gaffers tape sounds close to that dreamy heavy ride sound but I’m on a so far fruitless search for a flat ride that I like. @Julian Archer - great content, man - keep it up!
@@craigwilliams501 I have a 22" K Con Medium Thin High too. I've experimented with tape a lot, and it's in the same weight range as yours. With tape it has a nice ping but lacks body.
So far, the best I've found is a 19" Pre-Split Istanbul Crash-Ride (a greenie). I liked your 20" Bosphorus.
Every piano player deeply appreciates a great ride cymbal ,even if they're not awear of it, because nothing can cover up the best sonic qualities of a piano more than a lousy ride cymbal.
I liked the Zildjian 22" K Kerope, the Istanbul Agop 22" Jazz Ride, and the Dream 20" Dark Matter Ride the best.
the Zildjian 22 kerope and the dark matter were the standouts to me
Same here
Getting old I guess, just like the cymbals I use, lol. Old school K Zildjian Istanbul (which will bankrupt you on either Ebay or Reverb) intermediate stamp, Paiste Formula 602 preserial, finally the EAK Zildjian to round out my arsenal for jazz applications. I usually end up with the heavier ones w/stiffer surface as I get better rebounds because I am more the light touch technique from being corrupted by the old schoolers, lol. I have many other models for rock applications, A Zildjian, Z Zildjian, (not planet z), UFIP Bionic, & Paiste 2002. I really liked that Kerope you were playing, and the Dream could pass as a China application. There was a couple others but my short term is questionable (?) LOL but not as much as the present President. Yes, cymbal collecting is an expensive hobby, although 90% of my collection was purchased used, & many ppl think I'm nuts for such a hobby.. Ahhhhhh, they don't understand drummers and our love for our girls who shine and sing when properly stimulated, lol. And, buying cymbals keeps us out of the taverns, lol, and the other girls, like a bad tempered wife, are happy for that. Is good to see the craft being passed to you younger guys and yourself, which the girls will continue to be in good hands. Keep swinging Bro.
Great video!
Thanks Luke! I appreciate you saying that
The original páiste 602 rides are my favourite. I play a vintage UFIP ritmo myself. I like your agop ride the most in this video. I think you use Vic firth jazz 8a sticks?
Hi. Last week I changed an Istanbul green label hats for a used Dream flat bell 24". It sound amaizing. I like a Constantinople for your collection. Thank s. My apologies for my english.
No need for an apology, I understand everything you’re saying! The dream dark matters are great cymbals! Glad you’re enjoying it too!
Man, that DREAM Dark Matter ❤️💯
I like this guide youve put together. Really well thought out and very understandable advice for one to consider for the sake of their wallet and their time searching. If I may add, since my ride collection has now reached 7, (I guess 8 cause I have a dream bliss crash ride 20 but I never ride it) I'd say to not be afraid to think outside the box as to what kind of sound to achieve. These days, fuckin dudes are tearing it up using jazz rides on their math rock albums or using an earth ride from reverb (3000g+) for jazz. At times, the timbre can be a limitless journey if you believe. Like wearing a pair of sunglasses you think you can't pull off, you can if you try. Some cymbals I hear that would be built for an application just don't do it for me, I feel. So yeah, don't buy in to jargon and marketing, go with what your heart says and if it is unconventional, fuck it. Also, shop old/discontinued if you can. Lots of cymbals *cough* zildjian paiste *cough* just aren't made the way they used to, so def take advantage of of the used market out there. Great job!
I just came across this video a couple hours after having that exact experience - opening a brand new cymbal I had shipped and it was just…. bad. I went straight to my local shop and found a ride I like way better for half the price. Doh! I guess it goes that way sometimes.
Which sticks are you using? Greetings from argentina 🖖
When buying a cymbal I wil listen to music without drums on my phone (for instance some tracks from Christian McBride - Conversations with Christian), earbuds in. This way I get more of an idea on what an audience might hear.
The Overhammered and Dark Matter are my choices. There was a shop where the owner had an upstairs cymbal room. So concerened about stick marks the owner would give a little felt mallet. so I'd sneak in a stick in my coat and play until I heard him running up the stairs. As you said, you can't by it until you hear it.
Those are two of my favorites as well. That’s a great story Peter, I had a good laugh! Have a good one!
@@JulianArcher Glad you got a laugh. Still have my Istanbul K that I bought in 1978. Given war broke out then the store manager said this is end of the line. Asking why he answered that the are making bullets now. Paid $110. Priceless. Thanks for the videos.
@@petersimonson9145 cool story. What war was it? I tried to look up some info on wars in 1978 but I can only find afganistan/Soviet war in 1979. I'm a fan of history so I was just curious. Thanks.
i used to have one of those 18inch A flat ride. an old made in canada one. lost it due to a fire, wish i could find another one someday
The dream is great ! I’m looking for a ride that has some nice sizzle yet has a explosive almost gong like quality when hit hard. Would you say the dream flat earth would be the best for that ?
I wish there was an easy answer, but I would go play a few different dreams, and see if any of them have the qualities you’re looking for before you purchase one! :)
Wow, your kerope has an amazing bell sound. I'm jealous
Dream 20” Dark Matter. Really nice.
Gotta love that one! :)
Great content. Keep it up.
Thanks so much!
I like the Bosphorus a lot and the Dream...I have a Bliss that does it for me!
For jazz, I like them all except for the last 2.
478 subscribers only? Mate, what the heck your channel is awesome and your videos are very well produced. I see a lot of potential in this channel!
Can you do a video on how to approach a jazz drum kit? I've recently transitioned from a fast tempo rock perspective where I was looking for loudness only. In jazz I see more dynamics in playing, more subtle details, etc. How would you tune your drums? Which drumheads would you use? etc? I think that could be very interesting!
ps: if you're into motorcycle do the RN 40 in Argentina someday ;)
Thanks so much Iván!! Makes me really happy to read such a kind comment! These are all awesome suggestions, I’ll write them down. I’ll have to check out RN 40, sounds awesome!
Listen to Alan Cummings here. He knows about choosing a great ride, lol! All kidding aside, this was a very useful video for us drummers.
Thanks Thomas!! Lol
Hi Julian - would you sell the Dream ride?
Idk if you've had any experience with the Sabian Big and Ugly series, but I'm considering the 24" HH Nova and can't find one to play in person (especially not now due to the whole "stay at home" business). What do you think of them, if you've had a chance to try them out? Love your stuff, btw!
Thanks for the kind words!! I have played a few of those Big and Uglys. I have played a couple I like, and also quite a few I don’t like. I would say the most virus-friendly option to find a good one would be to buy a cymbal that is matched to an audio file or video online (mycymbal.com or cymbalsonly.com). There is still a little risk involved (because they most likely play different sticks than you, and you don’t know how the cymbal is recorded. Although there is still risk, there is much less than just buying a cymbal on Sabians website, guitar center etc. Hope this helps, and good luck cymbal hunting!
I have the 22" Istanbul Agop 30th Anniversary ride, and the 14" hats from the same series. Amazing. You don't want to know what they cost. They are from Turkey. Zildjian moved from there and since then, their stuff isn't as good as it was. The top jazz guys in the 50s and 60s had Turkish Zildjians. Those were awesome. I also have three different 22" Zildjian K Constantinople rides, and they are very good. None of mine, though, have that nice trebly sound that you hear on the classic early 60s recordings.
My Agop ride was purchased in Manhattan and its original owner, an Australian, had it with him at a jazz club. Bill Stewart saw it and tried it out and he loved it. I bought it from the Australian on eBay.
The odd thing is that I am a reed player. I hoped that a drummer would use these, but it never happened.
I wish I could show the hats to Jo Jones. He would have loved the sound. For those who don't know, Jo had a fantastic hi-hat style in that classic Basie rhythm section. That was arguably the best-ever rhythm section - even though I am into the hard bop style.
Some of those 30th anniversaries sound great!!
I also have the 18" crash in that series.
Lots of drummers played A Zildjians and Paiste 602s as well.
I liked more of the brighter sounding ones, but I personally prefer crash/ride cymbals to a standard crash or standard ride cymbal
I like to go by Jeff Hamilton’s philosophy: a good “ride” cymbal should be able to be a great crash cymbal, AND a great ride cymbal! My favorite ride cymbals are also very crashable. :)
Do they crank up the eq for mic on these Dry cymbals for jazz?
I didn’t mess with the eq on this video.
The Epoch and Jeff Hamilton pair well together. Feel like the Thin Overhammered had the “mojo.”
I need to try that combo out! Also, that thin overhammered was my main ride for years. I love that thing!
Thank you for the flat ride demos; they are the red haired stepchildren of demos, The Dream was very surpriaing😃
I'll say that finding cymbals that you like are the most difficult part of drums.