Muldrotha, the Gravetide | Upping the Average
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- čas přidán 8. 09. 2024
- Upping the Average is a new series from EDHREC that helps tune and tweak a commander's average decklist to help it go from 'good' to 'GREAT!' Check out the final decklist here:
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It's good to see Joey branching out into new archetypes like reanimator. Really wouldn't have expected that out of him.
My Muldrotha build is focused on self mill with a ton of ways to reanimated and/or play things from the graveyard, so stuff like Stitcher's Supplier is a great effect even if Muldrotha isn't on the field. I also tend to not play her until late into the game, when I have a full bin and ways to protect her. I find playing her as soon as you have 6 mana is always a mistake.
Hope to see more of this series, love the insight you provide. Deckbuilding/Theorycrafting is the cornerstone of my enjoyment in commander. Love the attention to budget too!
Muldrotha player here. Really great analysis of the deck. Glacial Chasm and Mazirek are great suggestions that I will strongly consider slotting in. I will have a tough time cutting my Tamiyo because she is one of the few planeswalkers I can cast with Muldrotha in my deck, although I agree about the redundancies (Type Distribution). I like to use Living Death, Syr Konrad as win conditions. Looking forward to more of these types of videos.
Ryan Rogers I only have one walker in my deck (started with like 5 but I cut them all) now I just have Oko. Probably the best one, 3 mana commander removal and artifact removal which it can stick around
This is amazing nice job Joey and the team
Seal of Removal is a mixture of removal or protection, and Sinister Concoction is both removal and hilarious.
Just looked at that card, 3 insignificant costs and 2 benefits? Nice!
A few of my personal favorites in Muldrotha are Elephant Grass, Dustbowl and Manglehorn!
Next up - Upping the Average Queen Marchesa, long may she reign!
Took five months but it happened
Love this new series! I would love to see a cool toolbox Sisay, Weatherlight Captain deck!!
Excellent series idea! More please!
I love this new series idea. Could we get a Feather episode somewhere down the line? I always feel like I’m doing something wrong with her, but I’m never sure what.
You had me at Syr Konrad. He's one of my favorite cards and commanders.
Thanks, Joey! Great. video!
I love this as a concept for future videos. Really loved you analysis of the average deck. I hope to see more of them for many different Commanders. Great job
Big podcast listener here, great content keep up the good work. I think videos like these is a great direction for your channel. :)
I feel like Yavimaya Granger is severely underrated in Muldrotha. It is a farhaven elf that sacrifices itself because of echo. You can just replay it every turn
This episode is incredible!, love how you analized the deck and otherwise cut cards that we sometimes just cant do ourselves but dont know why. Would lvoe to see my favorite Orzhov commander, Teysa, Orzhov Scion!
The win condition i use most often is a Lord of Extinction and altar of dementia combo. Lord is hovering around 5 dollars i believe but altar is a bit more expensive. Its a good win condition that even has a backup of just the threat of a large creature.
Wow, love this series, this gave me some great ideas for my Muldrotha deck!
Love this! This is a super helpful video and showed some interesting ideas i haven’t thought of for my own muldrotha deck! Something to look into!
Woah I really like what you did hear. Cool series!!
Cumulative upkeep cards are great. There's 2 enchantments I like that can really screw up our opponents. I forget the names, but respectively, one is green the other is black. CUpkeep cost is 2 and 1life+B. Lands tap for colourless, lands tap for black. Pass the turn with these in play and we've massively restricted what our opponents can do. Comes back to our turn, we can sac them, play our stuff, replay one of these as the enchantment for turn, and sit pretty knowing its gonna take a lot for our opponents to get rid of them, until our next turn.
Hop on scryfall and search CUpkeep cards, and you'll find something you like. Also, contamination (lands tap for black) is also similar in that we can sac it at start of turn then replay.
I've found that Sinister Concoction also overperforms in Muldrotha -- it's cheap, gets cards in the yard, and can be used at Instant speed while destroying a threat. And it's an Enchantment.
I run a 99-permanent version of Muldrotha that uses Primal Surge and all the Empty Library win cards like Thassa's Oracle, Jace, Wielder of Mysteries, and Lab Man.
Also, Planeswalkers tend to be overlooked in this deck. Sultai has access to some of the best Planeswalkers in EDH, and pair well with Nev's Disk and Pernicious Deed because they don't get blown up when everything else goes.
In the process of piecing a Muldrotha deck together right now. This is great! Thanks!
Neato. I have a Muldrotha deck myself that is fairly budget(around 100 bucks). I go the Lands route for the most part, and consider it unique in that it only runs 4 non basics in order to maximize my ramp spells. Its not unheard of for me to animate my lands, mill someone out with Alter of Dementia and recur them with World Shaper.
@ 6:46 (Sidisi is pretty good, especially with Altar of Dementia)
In a good Muldrotha build, Sidisi is much better at creating zombie tokens than she is at filling the yard by herself - as Sidisi gets 1 ETB (excluding blink / flicker effects) and only swings once per turn max to mill (if she sticks around & doesn't need to be recast), but every single other mill effect we set off is another possibility for her "whenever" (really powerful word on a triggered ability) zombie engine to pop out a token. Creatures are our deck's best card type to shoot for behind lands (looking at you, Gitrog), so they give us decent odds with every mill we fire off. Altar of Dementia (Muldrotha's favorite sac outlet) can also help Sidisi's tokens churn the deck into the yard, possibly replacing themselves on each mill while digging for answers. To get Sidisi to stick around & contribute more in the mill department (& pop out more zombies), find a way to make her unblockable to really shine (Aqueous Form is cheap).
One thing I'd like to add, a card that I've found is better than Lignify in the decks that can run it is Metamorphic Alteration. It's a 1U enchantment that makes a creature into a copy of another creature. That means you can usually make someone's commander into a 1/1, OR you can make one of your 1/1's, say, Farhaven Elf, into, say, another Rampaging Baloths. Pair that with Evolving Wilds and you're getting 4 4/4's a turn! It just has that extra bit of versatility, as removal or a budget Phantasmal Image.
Was looking for new ways to spice up my Muldrotha List. Mainly Win Conditions that don´t just are "produce infinite Mana - Stonks!"
Very grateful for the Mazirek suggestion. Also Syr Konrad. I added Living Death, because both just interact beautiful with that. Now my favorite Deck is at a point where it is always a blast to play and very much less linear.
Alexi's Cloak {1}{U}
Enchantment - Aura
Flash
Enchant creature
Enchanted creature has shroud.
Also great piece of protection with flash!
This is GOOD stuff. Immediately subed!
Yesssss. Finally someone talks about Phyrexian scriptures. That card is a house in my list.
This series is an incredible idea! I hope to see more episodes,
It's great that the budget was also taken into account for the final list
keep up!
I'm so glad someone finally addressed the fact that Muldrotha owners have been playing way too many non-permanent spells. Loved how you touched on win conditions too. With all the small creatures and Muldrotha in play, a potentially cheaper win condition might be Pathbreaker Ibex?
Ibex would be fine, but Mazirek is better IMO. Often we don't have a lot of small creatures in play but do have a lot of them entering and getting sacrificed, with a couple big guys left on the field (Muldrotha, Gitrog, Mazirek, Syr Konrad, Sheoldred, maybe Gravebreaker Lamia). Two Plaguecrafter effects per turn with Mazirek in play (easy to do with Animate Dead and Plaguecrafter in the yard) can put you so far ahead it's silly.
You can however play Archaeomancer which has an ETB to return Instants and Sorceries from grave to hand though. But I would still keep the non perms to a minimum but keep the ones worth using over and over and at a low cost. Also, you can use Titans' Nest to exile each non permanent(or w/e you want) for 1 colorless mana each, essentially making Muldrotha potentially cast higher CMC things for low cost
@ 7:57 (Sinister Concoction > Seal of Doom)
In the category of targeted creature removal on an enchantment, Sinister Concoction is cheaper to cast than Seal of Doom - plus it mills us 1, it's half the price (a bargain @ only 5¢), & isn't restricted to nonblack creatures, which is huge. Only downsides are it costs 1 life, requires a discard, & needs 1 mana open if you want to "rattlesnake" with it, all of which are well worth being able to murder anything on the board.
I would love to see a video about Roon of the Hidden Realm. Been having some trouble tuning the deck to my liking.
@ 2:56 (Khalni Heart Expedition > Font of Fertility > Wood Elves > Farhaven Elf > Solemn Simulacrum)
Cheaper than Farhaven Elf & Wood Elves: Khalni Heart Expedition & Font of Fertility. These help balance the 4 other land ramps on creatures with 2 on enchantments. Both enchantments sacrifice themselves to recur immediately (all the creatures except Sakura need a sac outlet or cooperative opponent). Khalni ramps 2 lands for 2 mana - lower cost per land than any of our other land ramp (besides World Shaper, depending on circumstances). Khalni is the best choice for easily recurrable land ramp at any point in the game. Playing lands from the yard leaves plenty in hand to ensure land drops (& landfall) in case Muldrotha gets taken offline. When fetch & other land ramp effects are brought in while Khalni is in play, it really shines & can even crack the same turn it's cast.
Besides dropping Farhaven Elf, we should also swap out Solemn Simulacrum for Wood Elves. There may be a lot of robot love for Solemn, but he's objectively not great. We have to wait for Solemn to die for his "cantrip" draw (plus, there are way better ways to draw & mill for Muldrotha), & paying 4 mana to ramp a single land is relatively steep. For the same cost, we can get 3 lands if we cast Khalni & Sakura instead. Further, Wood Elves is almost $3 cheaper than Solemn. Although Solemn is an artifact creature (which provides a little flexibility when deciding permanent types from the yard), having a better pick of cards is much more important than blurring the lines of permanent types. These changes will give us better functionality for the deck, a better overall balance of permanent types, & a happier wallet (saved over $4 swapping in 2 better cards).
I know this is a really old comment but have you thought of playing Yavimaya Granger? It is a Farhaven Elf but has a echo cost meaning it sacrifices itself which makes it perfect for Muldrotha
@ 5:07 (Soul Ransom > Control Magic)
Soul Ransom is strictly better than Control Magic for Muldrotha. When we take the biggest threat on the board, any of our opponents can pay to pull the trigger on this creature we don't own - actively denying themselves access to resources, drawing us cards, & dropping our steal effect back in the yard. They could also use their own likely non recurrable removal on our definitely recurrable steal effect (sounds like a good trade, especially if we have Claws of Gix to keep it from exile) or they could use their own removal on a creature we don't own (still a win if removal is pointed away from creatures we do own) - either way, we will get to cast it again & pick another target. If none of those things happen, we get to keep the scariest thing around while Soul Ransom taunts our opponents about it. It's an impressively wicked effect. Soul Ransom is also 30¢ cheaper and has less color-restrictive casting cost than Control Magic. (no double pips)
One of my favorite cards in Muldrotha has to be Nyx Weaver. It doesn't look threatening, It's 3 mana, an enchantment and a creature that with Muldrotha basically reads "during ur upkeep draw two cards". The fact it exiles itself to get a card back is a little weird, but is nice since it can get back those powerful non-permanent cards you may still be running.
Awesome new series - really like this approach. As for Muldrotha, yeah, mine's a value engine that struggles to close games. Even worse, I'm about to remove Skullbriar because I want it in my Kathril deck and it spiked so I won't be buying a second copy. However, I also just stripped down my Syr Konrad deck, and I like your suggestion, so it will probably be going in as a new win condition.
One card I'd recommend but that wasn't in the average and that wasn't mention is Elephant Grass. Less than two dollars, acts as a one mana Ghostly Prison that also completely stops all black creatures from attacking you.
Super cool series idea, I use Average Deck all the time, so I'm looking forward to more. Especially for commanders whose decklists are very different, so the average deck just doesn't work. An example (though not a popular one) would be Ascendant Evincar.
This is a phenomenal start to what I hope is a very expansive series. I would love to see a Morophon video sometime
Really like the idea of this series, despite the fact that I despise Muldrotha. Hope to see more of these soon. Maybe you could generate some interest for some of the less played commanders?
Kresh the bloodbraided. Great video. Sir
Man I just realized mystic subdual from Ikoria is gonna be LIT in muldrotha
I like Sinister Concoction for less restrictive point creature removal removal and Pemmin's Aura for protection plus finisher. Bottomless Pit can make enemies but will give leverage against combo and control opponents Muldrotha can be weak against.
Also a fair portion of removal and card advantage creatures shouldn't depend on searching library or comes into play effects as those can be turned off by somewhat commonly paid cards.
I wouldn't play Mindslaver because of salt, but would play Nihil Spellbomb and Ashiok Dream Render for grave control plus value.
Sinister concocation is so underrated in muldrotha deck
I'm going to have to rebuild my Muldrotha deck now. Please do Korvold next
Same, sorry for ruining all my friends game (but not so sorry)
I see that Wayfarer's Bauble! Really great content! Even though I don't play Muldrotha, your process of tuning the deck is really interesting.
Great video 👍 Hope to see more in this series.
mortal combat is my win-con for muldrotha (with morality shift), mostly because it's funny and I've never seen it played. Also if you are a monster, oko is even more broko than usual in this deck, can keep bringing him back and turning commanders into elk.
All great stuff. Similar to how I would build it for sure with the Seal of Doom and Executioner’s Capsule. I have a Commander Cube built and Muldrotha is an option, and I have those cards in the cube specifically for her archetype. Only cut I didn’t really like was Tamiyo. She was in the self mill section, but she also can be another Eternal Witness with the Planeswalker permanent type that is kinda underrepresented. Loved everything else though.
My favorite cards in my muldrotha deck are oath of lieges for mass mill and free creature's. Bane of the living (boardwipe) and turntimber sower(tokens)
@EDHRECast Podcast my friend and I used the average decklist and the random commander button to blind play games online. It was a fun way to play decks outside our normal comfort zones.
Nice features. Great functionality. I was looking to make digital decklists and this looks like what I'm after. Thanks!
This new series is GREAT
Muldrotha player since release. Great add-ons and replacements. At end of day my win-con is Syr Konrad and ...............Gravecrawler.
I definitely recommend checking out sinister concoction over executioners capsule. Its activation costs 1 less and mills a card, sure it discards, but that's still your "hand". Also I've recently been trying hostage taker over chupacabra, taking a sol ring/mana crypt when there's no relevant creatures to remove is back breaking.
I'd also like to note that I prefer ghost quarter over tectonic edge. Reason being its one mana less for the activation and you can hold it up for end of turn instant tutors. In that case its just as good as strip mine because no one wants to get a basic after they just vampiric tutored :)
I'd love to see your take on Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge!
Great video! Would be nice to see more of this kind of series, and may I suggest you to do the more kind of “generic” commanders like Sidisi, Brood Tyrant or The Scarab God to focus them into more fun and synergistic lists
I really enjoyed this as I have a muldrotha deck!! My current favorite deck is estrid the masked and it is pretty powerful. Not budget at all! Would like to see your take on it
I like this series. Would not complain if u made more videos like these :)
I want to see more of these nice job
This is an amazing video, I'll definitely forward this to some friends!
Muldrotha is a fantastic home for Primal Surge. I generally finish with Lab Man combo (around turn 12) this is just to close out a long game.
In my Muldrotha deck I've gotten a huge amount of value out of Cephalid Vandal. It's not a particularly fast or...good...card, but I've found that in Muldrotha it's pretty easy to always have a few more threatening cards on the board so that people don't remove the Vandal for a few rounds, and I usually get to mill myself for at least 15 before it dies for the first time.
Next Commander suggestion: Korvold, Fae-Cursed King. With such a variety of varied budget, tribal and combo options this seems like an interesting challenge for Upping the Average.
That was really nice, I Love my muldrotha, and some of The cards that edhrec recommended are pretty expensive. Thanks for the advices
I think that Crop Sigil should be in the deck, along with zagoth triome
I love trade routes and dreamscape artist in this deck.
My only tip for muldrotha, go all in mill or don't go at all. If you don't mill (or just a mill a little) you don't need to be fearing your general beying killed this much. If you go all in mill you can use Reanimator effects and profit with World Shaper and other stuff. Being in the middle don't justify having all these Reanimator effects but makes you rely a lot on muldrotha, what is bad because she is going to be killed and it will matter a lot for you.
I still think, one of the best win cons is Possessed Portal. It shuts people out of getting new cards, so they cant even find answers to the portal, while we replay our cards from the yard over and over
what every Muldrotha list needs is a possessed portal. If no1 has artifact removal in hand the turn it drops, its almost insta win
Zur's Weirding is kind of effective for similar reasons, but neither card is very fun to play and will make enemies.
@@shayneweyker will in my playgroup ww go one around and everyone looks for an answer and if nobody has one we scoop and statt over.
@@shayneweyker and with zur wiedring they still get cards in their Yard, so the night draw into an out
@@moersertrupp Not if they don't already have something in hand or on the board that exiles enchantments or brings back what they need from the yard. We get to veto anything else they may draw into.
First off, I love the idea behind this video and would love to see a ton more of them.
Second off, you've given me for my own build. And I look forward to retooling my deck with them.
Thirdly, consider how few non-permanent spells Muldrotha players run, I recommend Primal Surge. My Muldrotha deck contains it as it's only spell, and if it's successfully cast it dumps my entire deck unto the battlefield. With a WAR Jace or a Thassa's Oracle or a LabMan, that's an practically an instant win.
Crypt of Agadeem is a nuts land when you're going the more self mill route and a cheap alternative to Urborg + cabal coffers
I'm not sure why people have taken it out, but Kokusho is a killer finisher in Muldrotha.
My guess is that it's $12 and Gary is 40¢.
Is this the first "upping the average"? I'd like to see Feldon next, who is my favourite commander! Greetings from Germany
Second Feldon! My Feldon deck is my favorite Commander deck I've ever built.
Are there options that take combos together? Or options that count how many, carddraw, ramp so on you have inside the deck.
Btw Also i love to see options that can helps out to find out how optimised your deck is/ how strong that deck is.
I would Love to see kadena on The spotlight someday
I'd really love to see a Mizzix list next!!!!
Love this series. Maybe tackle some popular commanders like Yarok or Korvold first before taking on some niche commanders like Teshar
Looking at the EDHREC average deck page, I wish that it gave access to a picture of the cards so that I could see what exactly they do.
Teysa Karlov would a cool one to see next.
Orazca Relic I think is fairly good, giving card draw and life gain on an artifact to sacrifice
Hey mate, awesome video. I'm building a muldrotha list and this is exactly the way i wanted to go. I just have a few questions i would like to add.
1 - How do you feel about meren in this list?
2- Isn't Narset, Parter of veils a good hate piece? You can play a walker every turn, so, you can use the cheap ones to your advantage i guess. Are there any other walkers you would consider?
3- I would love to win by kokushing out my opponents of the game. Is it a bad idea to include that toolkit in this list?
4- I have a good mana base. How do you feel about the cycling lands in conjunction with life from the loam?
Thanks in advance, keep up the great work, you just got a new subscriber.
Excavator combine with ways that let you play multiple additional lands allows you to play more then one land per turn from your graveyard. It's not exactly a substitute for Muldrotha.
I personally would've kept some of the instant removal cards and ditched some cards like fact or fiction for tasigur. Archaeomancer and others can recur them every turn
I use primal surge/villanious wealth/rise of the dark realms as win con in my deck, this os just grind everyone after 30 turns
Zombie tribal, i always find myself ending up drowning in cards with this
I'm sorry, I can't hear Joey over the sound of how handsome he is.
the first thing i thought when the video opened
I would love to see Breya. Maybe in a form that makes her not so oppressive and playable at a non-cEDH table, though that may be asking for a lot.
Making her non cEDH is easy. just use a slow mana base (tri-lands, bounce lands, vivid lands), little-to-no tutoring, stay away from stax and use powerful but not combo-tastic synergies. My favorite Breya win is probably Marionette Master and treasure tokens. Or go thopter tribal. Sure, those are still fairly strong but if you cut efficient tutors, 0-cost counterspells, and efficient combos then you are pretty far from cEDH.
I think a lot of Muldrotha decks rely way too much on the commander rather than building a great reanimator deck and one that can use spells, I run 20-25 spells in my muldrotha and it works great! Along with archaeomancer and mnemonic wall
Currently working on a morophon the boundless eldrazi build using the average decklist, would love to hear what you would do with that
Night Incarnate is a great mini-sweeper that takes care of many utility creatures and tokens every turn. It also combos with Jolrad, Empress of Beasts. Unfortunately Empress dies as well so u can do it only once every two turns. Lantern of Insight helps to scout for gy hate or problematic cards.
I have been looking for a good win-con for my Muldrotha as well and never thought of Mazirek. I was considering Skithiryx but he's too pricy. Till now i 'd just steal something big, use Vraskas' ulti or kick n sac Josu Vess from gy repeatedly to overwhelm opponents. All these yielded mediocre results as finishers tbh though and despite the fact that Muldrotha gave me pretty good win ratios a lot of times the games were longer than i wanted even after i had ''locked'' the game.
2:34 I was confused when you said "too many spells." I was looking at the land count, and 37 is perfect. A moment later, you clarified, saying there are too many instants and sorceries. I know it's common to refer to instants and sorceries as "spells," but technically anything that's not a land is a spell. I think if the community was consistent about using "spell" to mean "nonland," this confusion wouldn't occur. Especially if a newer player recently discovered what the rules definition of a spell is.
Not trying to be corrosive about it, but I think it's worth bringing up.
I do agree, especially when enchantments and artifacts are mixed in, but he was more referring to noncreature spells. A new player is more likely to understand that a "spell" and a "creature/permanent" are not the same thing. From a literal perspective rather than a rules standard
Oh, do Judith or Merieke Ri Berit next
How does the Average deck function work with commanders who are more open-ended in the directions their decks can go? Does it have some system of comparing how often subsets of cards go together in the same decks?
Can you do this upgrading with Yarok I found this video to be helpful with making my decks better
Lets see what you can do with Kozilek!
I would like to see your take on Breya.
Would weaver of currents be a good addition to this deck?
Is it just me or do most Sultai commanders seem like extremely powerful but super uninteresting cards? Muldrotha, tasigur, yarok are all just generic goodstuff commanders. Love the series idea btw