Orvar, the All-Form | Upping the Average
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- čas přidán 7. 09. 2021
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An Upping the Average where you talk about all the requested commanders that you wouldn't upgrade would be a neat watch also. Not one video for each, but one full video listing a number of them and why you wouldn't change anything. A 'Repping the Average' if you would.
I'm down for that, or a top ten or twenty that don't require upping.
I was thinking the same thing!
Sunscorched desert?! Joey, you're a treasure!
Agreed added it immediately!
Strongly, STRONGLY STRONGLY STRONGLY, recommend Precursor Golem...On cast, you make 2 golems. Next cantrip you cast targeting it while Orvar out will copy it and bring out 2 more golem tokens and another Precursor, then the spell will have to target each golem, twice because there are two precursors. Now, do that with a cantrip that also draws a card, that spell will draw you many, MANY, cards. So for 1 Blue mana you draw a card for 4 golem tokens, 2 precursors, 1 Orvar (changeling- also a golem) twice because each precursor copies the spell for each golem it can target and there are two precursors so 7x2=14 cards. You can dig VERY deep into your deck that way. Next 1 mana cantrip that draws you a card targeting precursor will draw you 30.
I went back and forth on this one myself. The downside being a lighting bolt wipes your squad and commander feels so scary
@@C00oo0Lbeans very true. I guess if you are playing high power, you want to have Fierce Guardianship in hand, a few more more mana to counter whatever comes your way. Besides, once you play Precursor Golem and draw 15-45 cards you should be closing the game.
@@lokumo13 Any counter can only get rid of one of the copies. The Golem's not in my list for the same reason that one removal spell becomes an almost unpreventable one-sided boardwipe, you can't counter all the copies. Mizzium skin is about the only way at this point. It's far too high risk.
More importantly, you also don't get Orvar triggers on copies of spells, only casts, so it doesn't actually work with cantrips the way you've described.
@@HalcyonVentures oh I am aware that the copies don’t trigger Orvar. That’s not what I described. The only time you make more golems is when you target precursor with a cantrip when orvar is out. Orvar makes a copy of the precursor in addition to the precursor making more golem tokens. Then both precursors trigger copying the spell for each golem, not for Orvar’s ability but for the “draw a card” on the cantrip. Again, aware that one removal removes your board but like I’ve said, you’d only cast Precursor if you know you’re safe and are going for the win that turn.
@@lokumo13 even if you dont win it is still fun to have shit ton of golems multiplying off your spells.
Something i would 100% add to any orvar deck is muddle the mixture purely because that sort of flexibility is extremely crucial. Its a counterspell when you need it and a tutor aswell. Its very easy to hold 3 for protection and transmute on the last players upkeep to go and get combo pieces for your next turn. In a similar vein cards like chain of vapour double as interaction against opponents and copy spells you can use on yourself. There is also artisan of forms, which honestly i would argue is among the best creatures you can put in an orvar deck, it can act as both protection for our commander and something we can use to get value from opponents, they cast a dockside? No problem, make your own and storm off during their turn. Finally, baral chief of compliance needs to be in orvar, because the instant + sorcery cost reduction is so extremely critical to efficiently assembling your combo, baral will often just act as another sapphire medallion, and medallion is another one of those best cards in our deck
You can only transmute as sorcery though, but yes muddle the mixture is great
@@plain6677 I guess i need my morning coffee haha yeah you're absolutely right. Even still, great interaction that's also a tutor, hard to beat in mono blue
I am such a big fan of this series! Great content! Thank you.
Memory Crystal is a cool suggestion.
Yesss i am so glad I asked for this! Thank you so much
Orvar is my #1!
I like playing voracious greatshark, if you’re set up to copy him you can keep the board pretty clear while also adding a lot of power to your side. It attracts all kinds of hate but it I guess that’s true of pretty much everything in this deck.
I was just looking at Orvar this week - mind...blown
I purposely made mine just Lord tribal since it's so easy to break Orvar any other way, just get a Lord, copy it, make Orvar and the board huge. It's definitively weaker that way but it draws a lot less hate and having a lower power deck is also nice from time to time.
The moment we've all been waiting for.
I'd definitely be interested to see the video of commanders that already have the perfect list.
I have an Orvar Merfolk Lord tribal deck, where you just clone the lords and get a huge board super fast.
list? :)
Oh man, that deck is sick, it's literally a fun killer for every opponent at the table :P It can win absolutely from nowhere in one turn and I LOVE it.
Can you do a video with Zevlor, Elturel Exile ? I believe it will be another fun killer :D
I just made the sythis deck and I’m in love. In desperate need of a Golos episode
This aged poorly
This will be fun to get tips. I'm working on an Adrix and Nev with secret Orvar commander deck. I'm looking mostly for fun value with a sea creatures sub theme instead of 100% degeneracy.
Mirage mirror aswel is amazing , you can copy any card your opponent has for 2 Mana then just target that to gain copies of it
THIS^ I always recommend this card for any deck making copies or triggered abilities. Puts in work in pir and toothy as a counter storage device for moving counters around too.
Also, you can use creatures like grand architect to make it more efficient and interactable.
The best thing imho, is to load an Orvar deck with creatures like Clone.
Mirrormade, phyrexian metamorph, etc etc. Just grab someone's most important thing then keep making copies of it.
Would love to see Hofri Ghostforge/Reki, the History of Kamigawa sometime, loving the stuff man
Love these videos! Please do Gisa and Geralf next!
I have a Bant Populate deck (under Roon), managed to squeeze Orvar into it and a package of small targeted protection spells (while already running Cackling Counterpart) Alas, couldn't put in any useful cards that target anything, but a nice suite of little protection spells were cool, especially in land spots and without disrupting other aspects of the deck.
I may have just missed it in your list but it’s incredibly easy to get infinite Capsize in this deck.
I really like Orvar. I have him in my Veyran deck and he's great!
Scholar of Ages is also good recursion option for instants and sorceries because it returns two spells. It is expensive to cast though.
Something like a Riftwing Cloudskate is REALLY good, cheap in the early game... and MEAN when you start copying it. It's a flexible removal option and gets rid of things like Propaganda that stop tokens swinging in for the win.
Windrider Wizard also gives great card selection with a triggered loot. It's an optional trigger too so having a few copies is very flexible.
Oh! Another HUGE one but with a high price tag is Primal Amulet. It makes Buyback cheaper but it also flips into a spell copying land. Pretty good with Twiddle and the like.
Auger of bolas, gauntlet of power, mystic reflection, patron wizard, and memory crystal are great. Also some spicy small copy targets/wincons are altar of the brood and ruin crab (if you get the infinite lands you can deck everyone out) also a cute draw engine is faire miscreant doesn't do anything initially but once another copy drops in you draw a card. It combos well with bounce effects too considering orvar goes off b4 the bounce then you can 1:1 ratio your card draw essentially. Timestream navigator is also a cool infinite turns card under the right circumstances (shaky at best, but satisfying to pull off)
I forgot to mention grand architect is always a good idea in blue with artifact win cons. Him an orvar already get you 4 mana in for artifacts.
It was so refreshing to see a "this deck is already fine tuned, I'll explained why and make one or two swaps". Please do this with Kadena~
man!!! memory crystal!! i have a semi competitive Orvar deck andtrust me! i will put it in the deck!! thank you guys for all very well done videos you put out so often and of such quality!
I agree the only other channel that puts this much care into the card suggestions I watch is EDH Deck Building. Check em out if you want
@@robertmendez8383 I basically fallw em all hahahah!
The cool part about torrential gearhulk is that its casts the card, so you can still pay additional costs such as buyback.
Is there a version of the deck that uses Orvar just for value, or does he always collapse into infinite combo eventually? It might help take some heat off if you can tell your group that you can't go infinite.
You don't need to go infinite, and there a dozen different branching builds. Just ask yourself: what would I do if the singleton rule didn't apply? Just don't expect your play group to be any less salty
I went merfolk tribal and is a very, very aggro blue deck. The copying becomes less automatic max value play and more about what types of resources or abilities I need. It is an expensive build though.
I agree with @Ryan H and @B Wood, you don't have to go infinite. Throw a Talrand, the Sky Summoner in with Coat of Arms and smack people in the face. Coat of Arms with Master of Waves (as suggested) is even better....a lot lot lot better.
What makes him go infinite are peregrine drake like creatures and buyback.
Reduce those and you're still archenemy. Especially if your have graveyard spell recursion with blink effects.
My fav deck!
Can we get one of these that is asmoralda? I could see it being similar to the other food commander where you look at artifact sacs
It's a pet card of mine, and doesn't work with the buyback loop, but I love Eye of the Storm.
Once it's out, every cast of an instant or sorcery is a cast of EVERY instant of sorcery cast since it has been out.
Just like Isochron Scepter, it copies the cards it has exiled and then you cast them for free.
It stacks up fast and they all trigger Orvar.
White, great suggestion! That would be a really fun card to play in the deck!
Roil elemental is a fave card of mine so it's in for me
Id also like to recommend tribute mage. So many good 2 mana artifacts to go tutor for, sapphire medallion, arcane signet, and lightning greaves to name a few. Going infinte and then getting lightning greaves lets you just win with all your mow hasty dudes (just dont equip them until you go to attack)
Hey, would you do a stompy Stonebrow, Krosan Hero deck for us, the gruul fans?
I really want to at least see a mention of Felisa, Fang of Silverquill. While her list is also pretty tightly tuned already, there are some cards that are some real stinkers that I think are only on the list because they were in the precon.
when are the rest of recon precon coming from the DnD Set? cant belive you still didnt do the reanimator commander sefris
Regarding Master of Waves, do the token copies of him also have the blue pips and a mana cost that count towards devotion?
Yes, tokens of permanents have their mana cost
That’s why scute swarm is gross in Kodama, since each token copy of the swarm has 3 cmc for her ability. Or why Nykthos is crazy in an Aeve deck when each Aeve token has 3 green pips
In your experience, did you find this level of Orvar to be a bit too strong for most tables? I cut the buyback spells, and that really limited the explosive combo power of the deck. As such, it actually opened up other lines, and also stopped the game from just ending on turn 5 or 6 sometimes.
I don't like infinite things, so I build Orvar with a Wizard subtheme and it's kind of fun.
Also.. Vedalken Plotter is a fun one if you want to be hated by every 3+ color opponent. Just make sure they never have the right colors.
can someone please explain to me how clockspinning words on this deck? I'm currently building it. Thanks!
Clockspinning can target any permanent, not just a permanent with a counter on it :) So it's just a repeatable targeting spell for Orvar. Good luck with your brew!
What do you think about Veilstone Amulet in this deck?
I love this deck as well
My favs are locus lands
Griffin canyon
And heraldic banner
Sapphire Charm is amazing
I like to have counterspells easily under the hand if I'm running a mono blue. I added Daring Apprentice and Perplexing chimera in the list. I love the last one. it's a bit expensive but once it's out, you can counter or steal anything around you, making a pretty decent defense. And if you go infinite on that, well, nobody can play anything else than a 3/3, and it's pretty hilarious. What about clockspinning? there is no much counter mechanic here. I'm lost a little bit with this one. What I'm missing?
Clockspinning can target any permanent, not just those with counters on them, so its another repeatable way to clone your stuff
can I copy treachery and use on my opponent card?
Would like to see lurrus of the dream den
Clockspinning targets a counter on the permanent, so you cant use it on a island, right? Unless it has counters on it.
The target would happen and theres no counters so nothing would happen, except the orvar trigger would copy for the target.
I never see Dark Depths on any decklists for Orvar. Wouldn’t his ability to copy that land have the same effect as the other copy effects that remove the counters and net you a huge indestructible creature? I mean a 20/20 you can make copies of seems pretty fun
It wouldn't work that way sadly. The usual copy Dark Depths combo is using Thespian's Stage which enters the field and then you can, when you like, use it to copy the on field Dark Depths. The difference between that and something like Orvar copying it is that when you make a copy with Orvar, it makes a new copy which enters play and triggers any ETB effects, including Dark Depths' to put counters on it. Thespian Stage doesn't trigger that ETB so it copies the land, sees that it never got any counters, and explodes into a 20/20. In theory, you could put it into the deck anyways if you wanted due to how easy it is to get infinite mana, but in this deck infinite mana can be used to make infinite copies of whatever else you have on board, and at that point infinite 20/20s and infinite 1/1s have very little difference (not to mention the legend rule you have to work to get around with Mirror Box or Sakashima or the like)
I love Orvar, but I could see my playgroup hating it. :-)
We need more videos like this, it’s fun seeing what makes some commanders so strong! Maybe title it “Understanding the Average”?
I have Mechanized Production and Mycosynth Lattice and i intend to make 8 copies of my artifactinated Mechanized Productions.
This kind of list was too strong for my tables so I swapped into an artifact tokens strategy inspired by sharding Sphinx and its still really fun and strong. By the way, you NEED a mystic reflection in that list!
I'm honestly surprised Orvar isn't banned.
Not that I am complaining.
Honestly, most of the special target spells sell for less than a quarter. This deck can become nearly competitive on a budget.
I just love playing treachery in this. Take control of creatures, untap lands, watch people cry.
Saaame lmao it's not very nice tho
Love how the downside of it being on a removable enchantment is a plus side in this deck.
Decklist needs a [willbreaker]. Also works great with small target spells. If cmd too expensive you can start stealing stuff
An amazing hate card/deck for Orvar would be Horobi, Death’s Wail.
Not really though, unless you can give him shroud/hexproof. The Orvar player has about 40 spells that can kill Horobi because his effect is symmetrical.
I love my Version of this deck, clone the tables creatures then make copies.
One pet card I use in my Orvar is Beguiler of Wills, doesn't take too much effort to start stealing away other players' commanders
This is the ONLY commander deck I put a Locus land in, Cloudpost.
Yes, I'll take 4 Cloudposts for 3 U mana.
Ludicrous commander.
Feldon next!
Elephant Graveyard is another land that protects Orvar.
Do Zaxara please. Hail Hydra.
I’m begging for Prosper, Tome Bound😭😭❤️
He did a precon recon on it already
This deck is so dirty that my play group refused to play against it. However, the deck is very commander dependant and folds if orvar gets removed too many times.
That's why in my brew I have the merfolk or illusion lord that gives hexproof also an elephant Graveyard.
When it comes to making copies of Orvar with Spark double, or Sakashima of a Thousand Faces, wouldn't it be more efficient to replace it with another one or two cmc instant that simply targets a creature; without removing it?
You would receive the same copy because of Orvar's ability when he is on the battlefield, and you can't copy something unless it is on the battlefield. You're essentially copying the commander for less mana, and from my understanding, you can target your tokens anyways and continue to make more copies of the original.
If you copy orvar, as he is a legendary crature, you have to put one of them intantly on the graveyard as a state based action, that's why spark double and sakashima are there, because they break the legendary rule, not because they copy.
Is there any hope that the series can take a look at Rashmi Eternities Crafter Control.
Hiya everyone
Gearhulk NEEDED to stay in! Its extremely important recursion and combo protection! When gearhulk triggers you can cast on of your buyback spells then pay the buyback and it returns to hand! This is extremly important if your buyback spell gets countered!
Ehh its 6 mana though, its extremely overcosted for the effect considering we have access to considerably cheaper recursion. In my personal orvar deck the only spell in the deck over 5 cmc is coveted jewel and thats purely because that card will win you the game if it sticks.
I'm running the Hulk in mine.
Having multible aetherflux reservoir also sounds scary ofc its not that budget
I loved Orvar as a concept, but he proved to be too linear a commander for my taste. His visual design is quite amazing, though.
Yeah it's very consistent. Gotta admit that copying value artifacts and enchantments is super fun tho.
Is there a way to submit a request for a video. I’m trying to brew a deck around Blast of Genius. I feel like you have the same taste in decks so I’d love to see what you come up with.
33 lands seems a bit light
Yes and no. Since almost every targeting spell in the deck can target lands too, many cards in the deck can let you make copies of your lands so once you hit the point where you can do that, you'd probably rather not be drawing more lands.
Sway of illusion is clutch. Not only does it target any number of creatures on the board, but it also draws you a card.
What about like. Not having combos in the deck.
I have an orvar deck myself and I would personally recommend rod of absorption it combos off easily with big mana rocks high tide and caged sun it's an instant win and easily is tutored that's my challenge!!
One neat trick with Orvar is that if it’s getting killed with target removal, you can target it with the spell, create a new copy of Orvar, and let the real copy die. In that way, you’re ‘blinking’ the Orvar.
Another card I love with it is Mirror Gallery. Orvar galore! 🤣🤣
Orvar doesn't make a copy of itself, the text reads "other permanents," so you'd have to make a Spark Double/Sakashima copy of Orvar first.
Nykthos is a bad land in Orvar. The rest is fine.
Gearhulk is used because you can get your buyback spell back to your hand. Yeah it cost 6 but its worth it. 6 is nothing to get to in Orvar.
I suppose its nice that mono blue has a nice strong commander. That said there is no real downside to Orvar. It seems both op and boring asf to me.
Gah! Love the series but I literally just took my deck apart
I disagree with Sunscorched desert. While it sounds amazing it runs into the same issue as running Though Vessel in Feather. The deck is pip reliant and you cant afford to run colorless lands.
Listen to me very carefully. Glyph Keeper is a BUSTED card in this deck. Orvar only cares about the target when you attempt to cast your first spell on Keeper. So you keep targeting the first one and create an army of 5/3 fliers with built in counterspell
IT IS BUSTED
Also, I have regularly held off a full pod with Orvar. Amphin Mutineer MVP.