BMW E92 335I 17 HYRBID N54 Boost Issues: IM STUCK
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- čas přidán 31. 05. 2021
- BMW E92 335I 17 HYRBID N54 Boost Issues: IM STUCK
I forgot to mention in the video increasing duty bias in the JB4 doesn't seem to affect this issue at all. WGDC increases but boost seems to stay that 1psi below target.....
Datazap Logs - datazap.me/u/zeroto60tube/e92...
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I forgot to mention in the video increasing duty bias in the JB4 doesn't seem to affect this issue at all. WGDC increases but boost seems to stay that 1psi below target.....
Datazap Logs - datazap.me/u/zeroto60tube/e92-17t-boost-issues-0?log=0&data=1-4
I would disable wastegate adaptation, set FF back to default (80) and then adjust the duty bias accordingly. With wastegate adaptation enabled it is very difficult to dial things in properly as it is ever changing even during a single gear pull.
Only started playing with duty bias in the last few weeks. But it doesnt affect the under boost. Just increases WGDC boost stays that 1psi ish under target at the top end.
@@ZeroTo60Tube your duty bias is only 67 at 6000, go more aggressive on it, increase it by the factor of target/actual boost, or a bit less so you remain on the conservative side, but you have plenty of wgdc left to work with.
It was set at 60, i went up by 5 and then 7 on everything above 5500 today and it didn't effect actual boost. WGDC kept creeping up tho.
@@ZeroTo60Tube the higher you go on wgdc the more exponential increments you need to make to gain small additional boost. These are 17t turbos, at those high rpms and 27 psi they are out of their efficiency range, that is also something to consider.
Can’t wait for next video!
Check your 3.5 bar tmap sensor, could be out of sync, I was losing boost because of my dvs, was one of the first issues I had, good luck for roll racing!
Take a look at your rear inlet where it bends going onto the turbo. It's a tight bend/space. The heat weakens the silicone. If it's not in there perfect it will get over bent and reduce flow to the rear turbo and decrease boost.
You'll usually see this at higher boost and higher rpm's around 5000 and up.
Hmmmmm this could be worth double checking. Just incase its sitting funny since the motor swap. Thanks man
@@ZeroTo60Tube i noticed something since the same 100%setup as you , my rear inlet is shorter than the old VTT inlet i had. after the installed installed my turbo so he had to cut from the old inlet
How it could be fixed?
Check your PCV system. Also Smoke check the turbo's, sometimes after turbo install the metal turbo outlet pipes can sometimes leak and its very hard to see. I had this issue with the aftermarket outlets and had to switch back to stock. Wouldn't run your max boost until you sort this out.
Im having a similar issue, i believe it started when i installed the 3.5 bar sensor. Ebay quality of course.
This boost issue also happens with my car, when I put my first tune that targets 24psi with 186 load it was only boosting to ~21psi and 170 actual load, but then after a week of driving it started to hit load and boost targets with a little bit of trottle closure. I decide to update my tune file to increase the load target to 187 and now it's underboosting again. This could be a tune issue or the ECU needs some time to adapt
6:15 the racing overboost issue. With JB4 it assumes you will have traction disabled. With the nannies ON, the DME closes throttle and brakes to keep traction. When it closes throttle, boost spikes to the roof and the PID cannot control it fast enough.
I’ve owned JB4 for ages and it’s come a long way, but the overboost safety is annoying when I have traction on and just want to give it a go. If you do it twice, where you have a throttle closure it bumps you to safety. Say 1st gear slipping at the redline, switch to 2nd and slipping would cause throttle closure and safety to bump you out.
The normal program 335i DME use to only allow like 80% throttle as the “100%”. Could have been for HP reduction, or flow, or whatever. It’s why JB4 was the first to see so many gains at W.O.T real 100%.
Anyway, nannies OFF with every test. Maybe set your custom JB4 map so it will never change.
The boost should always be controlled by the wastegates. So the best way to go would be using the aftermarket diverter valves and do some serious port work on the wastegate channels.
Just get a good charge pipe and BOV set up get ride of that diverter set up. You’ll appreciate it I promise
That's the plan! Need to for the single anyway just to clean up that side of the engine bay. Had 3 different sets of diverter valves on it so far and nothing effects the top end boost.
@@ZeroTo60Tube sounds like a plan.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I agree with Devon Smith. I personally always used BOV to atmosphere setups. I like the sound of the car when you let off the throttle.
1. I have a turbo car and I want people to hear it! 😆😆😆
Think of what you car is doing when you boost and then let off the throttle suddenly. If you have Diverter valve setup of a Recirculated BOV setup the extra unwanted boost is just going th try to go back in the motor, hence overboost or reversion back to the compressor of the turbo = BAD🤕🤕🤕.
Turbo need freedom of flow, whether it's the compression side or exhaust side.
By the way I'm still on stockers FBO at 18psi with the charge pipe BOV setup.
No issues here.
Keep up the good content and cheers!!!!
Mod on..........
You should through a 6 speed manny instead. The dual clutch maybe not as good as a 8 speed? The dct to much time since I don’t have the n55 and is extremely expensive , also got the gs6x53bz but the problem I came up with is that the fly wheel changes and I need 6 hole and it’s stupid expensive . But the 6 speed sounds so cool! I wish I could of done the conversion :/
Funny thing is I'm battling the exact same thing!! So battle of the boost leaky, target thingy not working properly N54s Saturday night it is 🤣🤣
Bahahaha. I mean I can work around it by just targeting higher boost. But it bugs me it used to be bang on. What’s changed, what’s broken???? I need to know.
@@ZeroTo60Tube it's definitely weird hey.... mine used to be spot on as well so it's really annoying me! Solenoids should be here tomorrow so see how they go? I did replace them probably 2yrs ago so don't have any great hope of them being the problem...
Boost pressure sensor, hose fallen off or kinked, check all the basics. Just a thought, if the amount of boost under target increases at a similar rate to the boost pressure increasing (e.g. you mentioned target of 25psi, it was hitting 23.8psi, if say at 30psi it's hitting 28.4psi) then I'd be leaning towards either the pressure sensor being out of calibration, or a boost leak somewhere. Absolute left-field problem, if you've already checked every single hose and connection, could be a tiny hole/split in the intake manifold, which would leak more with higher boost. Do you have access to a smoke machine? Get some smoke into the intake while it's under boost, see if you can see any coming out in the engine bay. I mean, you could try that with coloured water too, could be a good way to clean your pistons at the same time 🤣🤣
Old video but ive hard boost target is not actually a target but more of a ceiling(max) boost. If boost hit it or go over it then it overboost.
Its almost never gonna be boost the same as target, at least with mhd, maybe jb4..
I always like to work from a clean slate when diagnosing issues like this on my car. So my first step would be to remove the JB4, run the stock map and log to see if the car hits target, if it does then I would load a MHD stage 1 or 2+ map on the car and log that and see if it hits target. If both of those hit target perfectly then JB4 is at fault or the settings on the JB4 are at fault so I would then reset everything on the JB4 to factory settings and start with a low boost map 1 and see if it hits boost on that map perfectly and work my way up from there.
Well its only a problem on my high boost map. So the clean slate thing is out the window there hehe. However i have kept records of every change made, so i can normally identify a niggle. The problem arose when the motor was swapped. To be fair i can work around the issue. I just want to know why it doesnt hit target like it used to on the old motor.
Hey! What is the app used to view the datalog at 7:45? Great content by the way thanks for sharing everything!
That’s JB4. Need the app and jb4 module
@@ZeroTo60Tube Now I feel stupid, I have just realised there is the graph option! I was always using datazap
I reckon try a different JB4 and see if its that. It's weird that you can change the target psi and and the actual boost remains consistently below. Could be a fault on the board or connections that's causing an error in the signals being sent out to the car.
That is a possibility and has crossed my mind.
Hahaha all good ethel is coming back twice as fast this time round 😁🤟
What? What? You coming to rolls?
@@ZeroTo60Tube unfortunately no not for a while.. but I'll work it out with you guys when I do 😊
@@cornfedboost ohhhh I got excited for a second there
@@ZeroTo60Tube yeah I wish I was ready but still waiting for parts and still have a heap left to order unfortunately
And try tightening the wastegate arms a couple turns it might help with getting that target boost. It’s pretty easy
I’m thinking it may be something like an arm out of adjustment or wastegate wearing out. Changing the solenoids didn’t effect it. The turbos are one of the few bits of hardware that I haven’t messed with.
@@ZeroTo60Tube definitely worth taking a look at I had a similar situation on one of my builds and it solid it took about an hour to adjust but it was well worth it
Did you try measure exhaust back pressure before turbo? 🤔
Now that sucks... but I've seen 2 cars with the same issue but different reasons...a friend had this issue it turned out the wastgate wasnt sealing tight enough.. he adjusted the rod and was done... the other was my car... which turned out to be the DVS... switch to aluminum charge pipe and a tial BOV and it was fixed... mind you we don't have e85 here so we are not targetting that high boost levels... but hey boost is boost and you are leaking 🙂
If actual boost goes slightly over target boost, you will get throttle closures, so its better for actual boost to be slightly under target boost level
You are right with flash only cars. But the throttle closures on overboost don’t happen with the jb4. The cars dme never sees the overboost. Only the jb4 sees it.
audi RS6 diverter valves will fit too, if you want something slightly cheaper
From what I understand trough the years is the N54 maps are Load based. So boost and timing are used to reach the load target. If your load target is reached then it won't add more boost bc it doesn't need to. With new dv's you probably have less boost leak (or the seals in the tubes) and your turbos don't have to compensate to get more airmass to go with the fueling... Your ignition timing isn't looking really good/high, I would focus more on that and add more E?
Jb4 throws all that out the window. Jb4 simplifies boost control massively, which is normally a good thing and helps show mechanic issues. Don’t get me wrong this is not a big issue and I can work around it by just targeting slightly higher boost than I actually want. I just wanna find out what I messed up when I swapped the engines.
You should drop in a mechanical boost gauge to just see if maybe the JB4 is reading it incorrectly?
And just a thought, I know you said you wanted to do the fastest times with the 17t with the 6hp21, would be cool if you got a TCU tune from Rod Sutphin to compare times. Since his tune is optimized for each person and their power and ramp rate and all that goodness where xhp is more designed for stock ramp and all that stuff. Just a thought. Would be cool to see if there is a difference and if it’s worth it for other people to consider a custom tune
Rod would make the zf6 quicker 100%. For roll racing his tunes are fire. But a bit pointless to pay for since the box will be coming out soon.
You should try eBay tial with bms bov vacuum kit
I’m gonna want to change the bov when the single goes on
i have the issue, JSR 19t viv3 turbo and high WGDC to maintain 22 psi on pump. with jb4 and bef, with very high FF and duty cycles
That sounds like a boost leak. Had much time to look in to it yet?
@@ZeroTo60Tube I will take tommorow to a shop. I am disappointed so from these turbos. Car is making 400whp on VD . I was hoping from everyone saying that it will make 500whp on pump
@@ram00sa00 Its frustrating, but the turbos will easily make 700whp, so something is up. Remember tho, if you run them with a boost leak for long, you will kill them.
andrew i think you have 1 turbo making more boost than the other. try putting a manual boost gauge on 1 turbo and do a run then put the gauge on the other and do the identical run and film both to see if it is different i say this because if your jb4 is taking boost reference from 1 turbo it may not be the same on the other one hence 1 might be boosting more so there might be your discrepancy in boost cheers glenn
JB mentioned it below, but it could be an issue with wastegates wearing and them being out of whack. You can't actually measure boost coming out of each turbo separately, they both immediately connect to each on the charged side.
@@ZeroTo60Tube try and close them with vacuum I think it is? And see if it works. If it is not fully closed just adjust them. Sounds like it could be that actually. Since it is always the same 1.2 psi
Sooooo if your making more boost with the aftermarket diverter valves, and still making low boost with stock diverter that tells me the diverter valves are bleeding off boost. At least that seems like it to me. The tune might have been compensating for that. A bad diverter/bov would either cause a leak under boost, or compressor surge.
Same boost issue up top with both stock and China bovs. But the China ones just caused over boost on aggressive throttle tip in.
@@ZeroTo60Tube almost like they are bleeding boost at aggressive tip in while the ecu tries to target boost, then they slam shut causing a spike.
Hey mate iv been following you from the start of your 17t install I have a 335i and did all the mods you did bar the port injection I got it tuned with one of the boys in America and was going great now I have gold and silver flakes in the oil filter housing very little in the filter when I opened it I’m just asking you to see do you think it could be to do with the turbos or rod bearings I ordered the rod bearings and got a oil test oil wasn’t old enough to say for sure what it was but showed a bit of iron and Copper just said I’d ask you because you know them inside out but I never seen you change rod bearings thanks in advance I lived in Mackay for years just back in Ireland now would love a roll race sometime when I get back thanks 😁
It’s probably rod bearings just coming to the end of their life. It’s purely luck of the draw when you wind a second hand N54 up. Just a random example but if one of its previous owners split a rad hose and got the motor hot, years ago that could have been what started the bearing failure. And now yours is making serious cylinder pressues (which is how any motor makes power) it’s too much for the worn bearings.
Thicker oil and change your oil super regularly is something that high power N54s seem to like.
I’d throw new bearings in it for now and see how it goes. Timing chains can also fail, so just keep an eye on it until you do a oil change and it’s all sweet
@@ZeroTo60Tube @Zero To 60 @Zero To 60 thanks a lot for your reply subframe off again so for the third time in 3 weeks haha got to love it going to go with the acl bearings will see how they go thanks again 👍
Not sure what's causing the problem mate, but from what I read, around 1psi off target is acceptable, plus if you can get it to boost to 25psi or 27psi, by raising boost targets, is it even worth going through the trouble? 🤷♂️
I think it's a boost leak still. Can you do a smoke test on the car.
Was thinking the intake manifold is plastic and could have a small crack somewhere. Just a thought.
Have done smoke test, but not pressurised test
In for the reason because I have no damn idea!
On a side note, Tim, now is your time to strike 🤫😅
Did you ever have the wg actuator off? They need to be set to between 6-7 in/hg. My new ps2 build (n55) was only hitting 22 psi. Had the wg set at around 9 in/hg. Set it correctly and now I'm seeing 26-27 psi at spool. 👍🏼
I didn’t in these turbos. And it could be a worn wastegate. They were fine but who know how hot it got when the water pump died last yeat
I use the same bovs. They don't cause overboost, not related. Boost control is something else. But your stockers are leaking for sure.
Yeah I don’t get how the diverter valves could cause overboost either
I have had 2 sets of stock ones, with no overboost issues. Aftermarket ones over boost. All 3 sets had zero effect on top end boost.
@@ZeroTo60Tube its not the bovs trust me
@@ZeroTo60Tube I get that they could cause spikes on throttle closure but seems strange at wot as they can’t ‘make’ pressure. Perhaps they are actually passing and compounding pressure to the turbo inlets?
I’m gonna put you on the spot now. Explain how 2 sets of stock ones don’t overboost and the China ones do? Even with the China ones on the softest setting? Or could be like I said in the video where my vacuum setup doesn’t provide the appropriate vac to the China bovs?
Regardless the overboost issue was fixed by removing the China bovs.
Also keep in mind if your China ones were supplied with a softer spring they will behave differently to these.
The PID is not quick enought to react. If you get on it smoothly, boost doesn't build up quickly, but at a sudden WOT your boost is approaching target very fast, so if PID is not aggressive enough to react, you will overboost.
Also did you adjust the duty bias? So it will be more on target?
You are correct. But it if i lowered PID in the JB4 it would too slow to make boost on a log type scenario. Basically with stock diverter valves i dont get the low RPM overboost.
@@ZeroTo60Tube you need to have the tune adjusted, and D factor from PID needs to be more aggressive, that is what catches sudden movements.
The only problem now is not hitting target over 6500rpm. No issues with sudden movements.
Here's a man who knows a thing or two!
@@ZeroTo60Tube mate, it's not hitting it on stock dvs because they have a leak, all of them, masking ur issues with boost control, with that leak, which also manifests itself as underboost at high rpm, your aftermarket ones do not leak, which is what causes the spike in boost because your pids can't catch it fast enough! Changing the pids will catch the overboost (sudden movements referenced above). The only thing a bov can aspire to is keep ur charge pipe sealed, that's what ur China bovs do. They don't add boost much like a solid tube wouldn't , ur boost control algorithm adds boost.
TeamN54🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
I am starting to have he same issue. My car is custom tuned on 91 Canadian gas at 18 psi. My car pikes to target and then falls down to 16-17psi. I replaced all my hardware and boost solenoids. And same thing happens. So annoying, this last for awhile then my car almost goes into limp mode and will only make 10 or so psi intill I shut the car off and turn it back on.
Are you running stocks.
Try swapping map sensors. Cant remember if you have an n20 sensor? Have you smoke tested?
Have an n20. Have smoke tested.
@@ZeroTo60Tube I'm no help then.
N54 is usaly better to be half a psi or so below target. Even 1 psi. Thats because if you actually hit target car uses throttle closures to control overboost. Usually I tune about .3 psi under target. Also what BEF are you using ? I would use MDH for the tune and the JB4 just for the Ethanol control/ Port injection.
Custom bef. Never had issues with throttle closures. But the dme never sees the true boost anyway.
@@ZeroTo60Tube i think thats ur issue
Give 1 turn on the wastegate adjust arm, that is your problem, bad wastegate calibration, probably you are not making the same amount of vacum that you have on the other engine.
Wastegates is a good shout.
N54 problems never end lol. I was wondering if you could help me solve a problem that my 335 has had for over a year now. BMW of Dallas was no help. My rail pressure will go from 2000+ psi all the way down to under 100 in half a second then back up going back in forth until it limp modes. As you can imagine this jerks the car really hard and makes a high pitch beep making it undrivable, this only happens when driving. I've replaced the HPFP, injectors, all fuel pressure sensors, and vanos. LPFP has been steady however, this week my lpfp has started to target 84 psi instead of the usual 72. Do you think the rail pressure spikes could be due to lpfp, fuel regulator, or ekpm3? I am at a loss.
Sorry man that is a weird one. It’s gonna be a matter of changing things until it’s fixed. No issues with the wiring on the hpfp?
Hopefully there are some useful answers in the comments 😁
Hmmm, why not go back to a more conservative setup with the stock TMAP? I suspect all the JB4 trickery with the 3.5 bar tmap have gone awry. Besides, you say it’s too much power for the street, so back it off and enjoy “reliability” from an N54. 😀
I more power not less!! Hehe
@@ZeroTo60Tube that’s what orly is for!
Get rid of that JB4 and get a proper flash only tune.
Whyyyyyyy. Haha my car is still faster than all the mhd only 17t cars.
@@ZeroTo60Tube well if that is the case then that is great, but I will have to fact check that, lol.
@@twinscrolled Dont get me wrong JB4 with BEF has its niggles compared to flash only especially if someone is messing with settings they dont understand, but then again flash only is a pain when you start winding things up properly. To add a bit more spice to the mix and something i think a lot of people are unaware of, the fastest USA car 60-130mph @nico_135 was using JB4 when he set the world record. And the fastest N54 in Europe was also JB4 on a half mile record pass. My personal take for your average setup MHD only is the best. But if you wanna go fast that stock DME will be a limitation pretty quickly. Looking forward to seeing how some of the PI only N54s with aftermarket ecus play out as street cars. Ultimately stand alone fixes all the stock dme problems by removing them completely instead of band aiding them with a JB4.
@@ZeroTo60Tube On the same day that the N55 record was set in the standing start 1/2 mile by Steve at Wedge (MHD tuned of course who doesn't care for the JB4). who ran a 172.8MPH, Nico ran a best of 173MPH in his N54. He also beat several other single turbo N54's at that event (check out the wedge youtube channel). But yes, I agree that the JB4 requires an educated and dedicated user for sure to be able to handle all of the quirks and to make the right adjustments.
I had the same issue.. but ken told me this... i asked i was under target...... Please don't make assumptions about reading data logs as 90% of the people online have no clue as to what they are looking at and why. Boost target is a loose translation of ceiling and is not a target literally. It affects PID and will cause an increase in WGDC within reason, but shouldn't overshoot the target, same as load request. We are using load to control power not boost. Over time you will see boost target change by 2 maybe 3 PSI depending on weather, but load will stay the same. So, before you go thinking that you're not on target, well you're not and that's fine because we don't target boost, we request load and we should run just under both. You will notice that in multi gear pulls that boost should be closer to target in higher gears because the rpm rise is slower and allows for more boost to build, but it shouldn't overshoot the ceiling.
100%, what bugs me, is it used to be bang on haha.
Hope you sort it 🤞
Load seems to be manifold air density which would be why a difference in ambient pressure and density would change the boost pressure. Based on that then you might see boost pressure drop as your iat’s come down in the cooler months. Have you looked for correlation between those two? Assuming of course both results obtained at sea level or thereabouts.
It’s a silly problem that I just want to understand more than anything ekse
@@ZeroTo60Tube try heat soaking your intercooler to see if your boost pressure returns!
I don't think water in the trunk is a common issue. My e92 bought new from Latvia in 2007. Since 2017 its been driven in Estonia, which gets 4 months of snow. Both countries use salt to counter ice and snow. And my car has no rust after 14 years.
EDIT: rear subframe has some surface rust
The water gets in normally through sunroofs. Only 1 of our e9x cars hasn’t leaked yet. Could be a Qld heat thing drying out seals and rubbers tho. On the flip side we don’t get the underbody rust
@@ZeroTo60Tube ah yes.. The sunroof - i don't have it 😁
By what yur explaining , underboost to overboost. Probably faulty the whole time it was mapped.
Basicly had a boost leak mapped in. Lol. They should not be doing anything but dumping boost when you let off.
Opening when their is vacuum at the manifold.
They still transition from open to closed. I’m guessing my car being setup for the stock bov behaviour and the China ones being closed all the time was the boost spike.
Dont you own a welder? Wastegates dont need to open. 80s F1 qualifying engines taught me that!
LOL
Stop embarrassing yourself please..
@@thesmilechannel3647 Called the smile channel, cant even recognise a joke. lololol
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