Hard to complain about a 10th over 10 inches, check it again in about 4-6 months, dollars to doughnuts it moved. The worst lathe I ever leveled had a 14 foot bed and spanned across 3 concrete slabs, it took us 4 days to get it level! In 3 months it was out again. Great job, enjoyed that very much!
We'll revisit the leveling and straightness chuck in a few months and see if we get some changes. I have no doubt that it will. The Pacemaker at work has a 14' bed. It was a pain to get leveled up, and I'm sure it's not even close now.
Thanks Tom, its a pretty sweet machine. I'm glad I have it. Thanks for showing the fine adjust, learned something from you as always. Talk to you soon bud. Adam
you probably dont care but if you guys are bored like me during the covid times you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my girlfriend for the last weeks :)
I appreciate how you’ll experiment like this in order to improve your work’s accuracy and do things that are new to you like make this tailstock adjustment.
Good video, after watching your videos and seeing how critical you are indicating I was a little surprised you didn't go after the .0001. Only joking your attention to detail in your work is commendable. Thanks for sharing
Very nice Adam, I'm at the phase of dialing in super tight tolerances that I don't so much need but drive me insane when I turn my pieces. Thanks for sharing. Well done.
What I find interesting is that the people who are finding deviancy always blame their shop floor. There are so many additional factors involved in the casting itself. Are there voids in the casting, was the guy machining the ways hung over that day, on and on.....these machines probably don't measure that good straight on the factory crates guys! Next thing you know, you guys will be measuring not tenths of a thousandths, but tenths of tenths due to air circulation...LOL! Gotta love the machinist guys!
Awesome Adam. Your getting real good at this and I have learned a lot from your show. Thanks for sharing with us. I know it takes a lot of effort doing this stuff.
Round head Colchesters have a headstock angle adjustment as I recall. Do not know about others, so at least in the Colchester case the headstock adj. could be off. Ideally you could extend your test bar down to the tail stock to check twist all the way to the tailstock as well bed wear along the ways and misalignment of the tail stock. Keith at vintage machinery had a problem with a badly worn saddle to the point it needed to be built up with Moglice or similar material.
awesome display of alignment, i really enjoy your videos, im getting out of the trade going back to school to go further in engineering but i love metal work and would love to have my own shop just like you do one day, Really appreciate the videos Adam keep it up, love from NZ!!
That is extremely close for any lathe!! Hopefully I'll get same kind of results from my lathe too! Before regrind, my lathe was doing about a thou per inch taper for the first 10 inches.. Thanks for your vids!!
Yes I did like! Enjoying your videos, Bro, and watching you set things up so patiently and diligently. Lots of lessons for me. Subscribed for more. Thank you!
Thanks Gill. I think we got it pretty damn close. Hopefully I can maintain the straightness for a while. It's doing good so far. Next is the pump, then tail stock.
Hey Adam, A tenth of an inch in about 10 inches is pretty damn close. If that holds true, that would be about 2 tenths for 20" I don't ever recall you turning something that long. If you start turning 8-foot prop shafts like Keith "GetterDone" Fenner, then some additional tweaking will no doubt be in order. Thanks for the video! Have a good one! Dave
Well I learned something new today and can now go to bed, thanks Adam. Actually that's not true, you taught me a couple things this evening with your dial indicator and the rate of cross feed to the spindle, then truing up the ways to the head stock. Scott, thanks
Dear Adam: I use a Shop Vac with a HEPA filter in combination with the premium yellow bags which are suitable for fine drywall and concrete dust. This will get all of the dust off your shop floor. Don't try to use standard bags and filters. Concrete dust is so fine that it will blow through.
Hi Adam, That's a great alignment job, lots of tail stocks measure lower than they should, had a lathe like that where I had to shim about .009", as long as your cutter is leveled the difference wont show. Cheers, Pierre
if your bearing in headstock are worn the pressure on tool willcause the work to cut shallower than near the stock, simple physics if you put a toolholder blunt end in and take it up to the work, place a dti on the work then dial in oo2 with your cross feed, then see how much movement you have in the head bearings , take a long pipe put it in the chuck, then lean on it, you'll see wear easily, least that's my take on it Adam
I wanted to add, now that the new camera mount video has been posted, this was one of the first videos I made using using the Rode mic on the machine. You can hear me better when I'm first talking at the beginning, but notice my voice isnt quite as clear when I'm behind the camera during the cuts. The mic picked up the noise of the turning tools well, but not so good when I'm talking behind it. The mic is great for picking up audio from the direction it's pointing, but not so much from the side or behind it. My hopes is that the isolation mount will help with the machine noise you always hear when the Noga is stuck to the machine, like on the tail stock or compound. But anyways, just wanted you guys to know the Rode was used when filming this video. Adam
That sort of mic is highly directional by design, specifically intended to minimise pickup from directions other than where the camera points. Maybe swing the mic around to point at you while the camera points at the machine?
As my mentor always told me. Earth level is a starting point. If after Tramming/Alignment of the machine, earth level is off a bit, does not matter at all. How the machine cuts is what matters. If earth level is close, coolants will flow/drain correctly and really that is what earth level is for. All machines have twist and crown. If after you take the twist and crown out, and machine cuts like A bomb got it.....Earth level, Shmevel!
Hello Adam, Your video demonstrates sometimes have a hard time getting over to people. A lathe does not have to be level to cut true and you don't need a precision level to install a lathe. I once set up a lathe with the back left corner two inches higher than the front right corner just to prove the point. The aim is to get the lathe to cut true and in the end the only test that matters is to cut a test piece. You showed in your previous video that you couldn't trust the level because of wear in the bed throwing off the reading.
I would rather show the factory recommended procedures to properly level out a lathe, and saying that I don't think I followed there recommendations perfectly after reading some of the older manuals. It's best IMO to use a level and get it close.
Monarch really understand the users, the lathe layout looks so easy to learn and use with a huge jump in precision with very little effort from the operator, no offense Adam. You'll always be way better than I'll ever be but I love the look of the older lathes, the 10EE is gorgeous yet you don't see that in modern lathes that can do the same but look like long oblongs......a shame . Heh and yes I am saving up for a lathe, Sherline 4400 will do for the time being, then a Myford ML7 maybe......or a 10EE if I win the lottery, lols
You could tell on the video that there was a discrepancy between the just machined journals, with a little "tool drag" on the end of the piece as you pulled the tool back. Is this what you called "push off" ? Big thumbs up!
That can be considered push off no doubt,l but I'm hoping it is also because of the twist I was getting. But any work piece hanging way out is subject to flex from the tool, thats why I chose to use very light cuts and a large diameter.
Now you've gone and done it ! *One step closer to ROCKET SCIENCE :p It's great to see an older machine get a bit of 'hot - rodding' ! Tweek it a little more, & you'll be in the SCIENCE FICTION realm ! ! ! Past few years, I've been designing and cutting faceted gems. . . using a worn out machine that was built in the '70's . . . with a great deal of eyestrain, I'm getting accuracy of a wavelength of light - *polishing facets to get the same color of 'reflected' light . . . it's practically magic ! By constantly keeping 'backlash' in check, incredible results can be had ! Horizontal & vertical angles on the machine have micro adjustments , called 'cheaters' - which leads me to the old saying 'cheating you blind' ! ! ! I must admit that ten hour days of cutting have led me to wearing stronger glasses :( Great to see you getting some MILLWRIGHT experience & sharing it with the rest of us ! Thanks Adam !
Now that you have brought that end of the lathe up maybe the tailstock won't be so low. Since the Monarch uses a split base tail you could fairly easily shim it if you had to.
Wow I didnt know that works. There are so many lathes with tapers from age and use. Does this mean you could reduce or eliminate this problem with ta simple table twist? Probably it will over shoot at the far end and under shoot near the chuck, but most work is done is a relatively constant area of the bed so I guess this would work. Nice
A spirit level I have to acquire. Informative video, demonstrating the removal or introduction of twist to take out the taper. Clearly, it has an effect. Do you have ventilation in the shop to get rid of the "shop fragrance"? Nice program, Adam. Thanks.
No ventilation so to speak, but I do have a fume extractor I can use, I just have never set it up for the new shop. It looks like a big turbo charger, with some pipe fittings to position the inlet where I want by the machine. The smoke has never bothered me though.
I have been told to leave the HS side 2/10 smaller by people a lot smarter than me. For certain, the lateral load on the tailstock when using live center is reduced by at least a factor of 4 due to misalignment. for this reason alone, the effort is justified.
Question: what is a "spring cut"? I tried to search for it but just come up with links to spring manufacturing. Love your vids, I've learned a lot. Duncan
Hi, Duncan. I see this post was from several years ago, and you may have figured it out already. Any machine, no matter how rigid it appears, has a certain amount of elasticity. This means that it flexes or bends, however slightly, under high loads, such as those experienced under quite heavy cuts. Once the large cuts have been made, the lathe operator normally makes a second (or third) pass over the part, without making adjustments to the cutting depth. This allows the machine to "work out" the "springiness" inherent to all instruments, and give a true reading. Hence, the "spring" cut. Robin Renzetti, (YT channel robrenz) is a metrologist, and he reckons that we should think of any machine or system as being made from rubber. Everything gives, no matter how slightly. Hope this helps.
I never doubted the big Monarch would cut good. It's made a whole lot heaftier than the new stuff. I think if you had done a spring pass on the very first cut it would have been very close to true as it was. The 400 series SS seems to machine well. How is it for corrosion resistance and galling? I have to make some threaded rod and valve plates in the near future for a water treatment facility and it would appear to be a good material choice. Colin ;-)
Colin, the 400 grade stainless machine excellent, but will rust and is magnetic. It's stronger than 300 though, and is used for pump shafts or motor shafts. As for galling, I believe it's slightly better than 300. We mad to machine a bunch of them with threads on each end to accept couplings.
If you put a 6 foot straight edge across the lathe and site it with a quality level like a Topcon it will be much more accurate than a machine level. I think I prove that on my two. Metre bed lathe
So with the adjustments showing half a measurement 'off' level after dialing it in, is the adjustment compensating for the headstock alignment with the bed or is it something else? Getting it down to 0.0001 after starting at 0.001 is quite the improvement! :)
twisting the rear part of the weys (ways?) up to compensate for the uphill travel the tool has to make to get back to the level of the part in the chuck. However, you tightened up your tolerances around the chuck area which means the further away from the chuck that you get, the more out of calibration or level the tailstock will be compared to the chuck or the material at the chuck. Am I right about this?
Adam To what tolerances are the lathe bearings held? Is it possible that the play regardless of how incremental in the headstock bearings will magnify itself at the far end of the stock? Would it not be better to make sure that you run this test with the tailstock attached to the workpiece? And again... what about the combination of run out created by the bearings in both the headstock and tailstock? I am not a machinist and just wonder exactly how accurate you guys are supposed to be. Please respond with your thoughts. Thanks, Keep up the good work, Anon
very good Adam glad to see that your Monarch is still working just fine !!! Thanks for sharing ps I hope you make your own T-shirts even if you use DoubleBoosts' logo I plan on trying to buy one from him you tom Keith F and if Stanley makes one his too....there are many good metal working/movie producers (:)) ) out there Mannhy
Adam and Tom, I watched Tom do the alignment test cuts and you too. Nice work as always. I was wondering why make the undercut? Would the same info come out by making a cut and the both ends and then check the diameter difference without making the undercut? All the best, Eric
Great video as usual. Question, the "twist" that you called it, isn't that really uneven wear on the ways where the saddle is most heavily used? Looking forward to the coolant fix and then the tail stock rebuild.
You have to consider wear on machines, but lathes have twist in the bed. Even brand new machines from the factory will have twist in them when you move one in and set it up. The "twist" isn't enough to see by eye, but its there.
Ok, so after my last question, I read the other comments. lesson learned... from now on I will do that before commenting. Now I know why you did not use the tailstock but I am still curious just how the bearings play into things. Also how accurate the lathe is supposed to be as per the factory claims/promises? Also, what is the most accurate you ever have to be when doing the kind of work you do? Is there an industry that must work to more exacting standards? Last question... Wouldn't a digital level be much more accurate and a better tool for dialing in something where you are looking to make such small adjustments? I too like those Starrett levels... have used them but don't own one... but I now fell in love with my digital level and keep a few on hand in my different shops / toolboxes. I have come to just not liking to use my bubble levels any more. Again, as always...KUTGW Anon
You can buy them from Mcmaster carr, and a few others. Tom Lipton just made a FAQ video and reveals some of the other places, and part numbers. It's called The Spillmaster.
I’ve used 400SS for windmill shafts that are exposed to weather extremes in cold climates and have never had a failure. Just a question..did you run identical tests with identical stock before moving the lathe?
What do you recommend to flush the headstock...ATF or kerosene like manual says? Just bought a 1951 monarch ck and doing all the pm before operating. Nice video btw about adjusting taper.
Adam who showed you how to do that?? I seem to recall I did at Keith Rucker's scraping class? lol I have been giving Stefan some crap because he forgot to mention me in his show on lathe leveling too. I love you show people what I taught you, but please give me credit at least until I croak. Rich
the taper was strictly because of thermal sink of the chuck, and the none sink part out at the end, and that is because he was not running coolant. had he been running coolant, this taper would disappear.
Adam, I’ve tried the same test. Fixed in a four jaw dialed in and really tight but as soon as I went to start cutting it chattered and only got worse. Tried a few times with no luck. Any ideas or tips thanks.
That's because I was taking a heavier cut during the undercut. It's harder to get a bright smooth finish when your only taking a few thou using a carbide insert, depending on the insert used.
Mainly to have two small straight turned areas to work off of. No real need to make a long cut. You really just need two machined areas big enough to measure.
Yeah, it'll grind the tip right down. It only takes very low force to move the pin, too, so it'll also skip and chatter and be too noisy a reading to use.
Hi Adam, I am not getting what you adjusted on lathe exactly? Level or something else? I am having problem to understand where is this headstock alignment and if this is something that can be done on any lathe. Thank you
Ok I did search on google so its something that can be adjusted where Chuck is you pointed on the back of lathe so i was confused (English is not my primary language).
Adam: When you stop the chuck rotation on the Monarch lathe I hear a high pitched whine from the machine. Is something running when the chuck is stopped? What's going on with that lathe, maybe some sort of idler mechanism?
Rj Morgan RJ, the electric Motor is running continous. Engaging the chuck is done via a clutch mechanism, that works better for heavy parts than kicking the engine from zero to full speed in splitseconds. Cheers
I'm curious as to why you didn't face and center drill the free end of that piece, and stick the tailstock in it. I would have thought for a test like this, that you would want the stability.
Yes, this test is to check the alignment of the headstock with the carriage of the machine, to make sure it is cutting straight. The tail stock is a different animal to tend to. We will get to that later. To answer your question, if I was to use the tailstock holding the work piece with a center, then I would be reading the errors in the tail stock, not in the bed ways.
0.0001" git down Adam! Hey, I emailed you some info on Monarch Lathes. There is some articles on millwrighting a Monarch and other info. Might be handy?
Hard to complain about a 10th over 10 inches, check it again in about 4-6 months, dollars to doughnuts it moved. The worst lathe I ever leveled had a 14 foot bed and spanned across 3 concrete slabs, it took us 4 days to get it level! In 3 months it was out again.
Great job, enjoyed that very much!
We'll revisit the leveling and straightness chuck in a few months and see if we get some changes. I have no doubt that it will. The Pacemaker at work has a 14' bed. It was a pain to get leveled up, and I'm sure it's not even close now.
There is nothing still, straight, flat or square in the real world.
The question is; is it within tolerances?
The only thing that rivals your attention to detail is your humility and modesty. Love watching you work. Thanks for sharing. :)
Perseverance pays off. A classic video for any body who doesn't belive you can do this. 🔨🔩🔧👍 Thanks again.
Hey Adam,
Good job. I sure love that Monarch. Its sounds so smooth and sweet. Now its super straight to boot.
Talk to you soon.
Tom
Thanks Tom, its a pretty sweet machine. I'm glad I have it. Thanks for showing the fine adjust, learned something from you as always. Talk to you soon bud.
Adam
Abom79 I'm your big fan from india
you probably dont care but if you guys are bored like me during the covid times you can watch all of the latest series on InstaFlixxer. I've been watching with my girlfriend for the last weeks :)
@Rex Alonzo definitely, I have been using InstaFlixxer for since november myself :)
I always come away having learnt something watching your vids - Thank You Glenn
I appreciate how you’ll experiment like this in order to improve your work’s accuracy and do things that are new to you like make this tailstock adjustment.
Close enough for me ..Your ceiling and lights look nice .the shop is brighter now
Man I am so glad that project is finished! Thanks!
That is incredible accuracy! I just acquired the same model Monarch today, will get it home this weekend, I am excited!
Good video, after watching your videos and seeing how critical you are indicating I was a little surprised you didn't go after the .0001. Only joking your attention to detail in your work is commendable. Thanks for sharing
Always wanted to understand more about this. Thanks Abom !
Very nice Adam, I'm at the phase of dialing in super tight tolerances that I don't so much need but drive me insane when I turn my pieces. Thanks for sharing. Well done.
I should tell you were happy with the results. Nice job.
Good quick fix and not expensive. The real fix would be to realign the headstock by scraping it into alignment.
Great series Adam. I'm in the process of tuning up my own lathe, and this is a great help. Thx ...Kevin
Very nice job on leveling the Monarch in the first place. You really didn't have to do a lot of adjusting to bring it in.
Matt C.
I would call that "dead nuts" your good to go brother!
Ray
Its close enough for me! Thanks ray!
Great video Adam! Thanks so much for posting this. I have to do this same thing to my 11" Sheldon lathe.
Howdy Adam, love precision type things.. cold rolled steel, leveled.. awesome
A great video Adam, thanks 👍🇬🇧
Great news!! Looking forward to the tail stock vid!
ATB
Chuck
We'll get to that part later for sure. I have some work to do on it. Next Monarch project in line is the coolant pump. Started working on it today.
What I find interesting is that the people who are finding deviancy always blame their shop floor. There are so many additional factors involved in the casting itself. Are there voids in the casting, was the guy machining the ways hung over that day, on and on.....these machines probably don't measure that good straight on the factory crates guys!
Next thing you know, you guys will be measuring not tenths of a thousandths, but tenths of tenths due to air circulation...LOL! Gotta love the machinist guys!
Awesome Adam. Your getting real good at this and I have learned a lot from your show. Thanks for sharing with us. I know it takes a lot of effort doing this stuff.
Round head Colchesters have a headstock angle adjustment as I recall. Do not know about others, so at least in the Colchester case the headstock adj. could be off. Ideally you could extend your test bar down to the tail stock to check twist all the way to the tailstock as well bed wear along the ways and misalignment of the tail stock. Keith at vintage machinery had a problem with a badly worn saddle to the point it needed to be built up with Moglice or similar material.
awesome display of alignment, i really enjoy your videos, im getting out of the trade going back to school to go further in engineering but i love metal work and would love to have my own shop just like you do one day,
Really appreciate the videos Adam keep it up, love from NZ!!
This shaft will have some flex at the end...looking good!
Adam now the Monarch is officially OXED!
Awesome! I especially enjoyed the part when the blue rag was getting down and dirty.
Those are some nice rags Todd! Thanks!
That is extremely close for any lathe!! Hopefully I'll get same kind of results from my lathe too! Before regrind, my lathe was doing about a thou per inch taper for the first 10 inches.. Thanks for your vids!!
Yes I did like! Enjoying your videos, Bro, and watching you set things up so patiently and diligently. Lots of lessons for me. Subscribed for more. Thank you!
Adam, a very nice adjustment. Excellent results!
Thanks....13
Good job on the wrench there buddy!!!
Glad she is cutting good.
Gill
Thanks Gill. I think we got it pretty damn close. Hopefully I can maintain the straightness for a while. It's doing good so far. Next is the pump, then tail stock.
Nice work, Adam. Interested to see what you do about the tailstock.
Gives a whole meaning to 'chippie'!
Love watching your videos Adam, great work.
Hey Adam,
A tenth of an inch in about 10 inches is pretty damn close. If that holds true, that would be about 2 tenths for 20" I don't ever recall you turning something that long. If you start turning 8-foot prop shafts like Keith "GetterDone" Fenner, then some additional tweaking will no doubt be in order. Thanks for the video!
Have a good one!
Dave
10th thou over 10" - well within Adam I reckon - Thanks for the videos.
Well I learned something new today and can now go to bed, thanks Adam. Actually that's not true, you taught me a couple things this evening with your dial indicator and the rate of cross feed to the spindle, then truing up the ways to the head stock. Scott, thanks
Dear Adam:
I use a Shop Vac with a HEPA filter in combination with the premium yellow bags which are suitable for fine drywall and concrete dust. This will get all of the dust off your shop floor. Don't try to use standard bags and filters. Concrete dust is so fine that it will blow through.
Wow. .0001 over 10 inches. Nice job Adam.
Adam, your micrometer is the same as mine... good lathe, good teacher. Greeting from Peru.
great information Adam.....learned something new, glad you were able to nail that to .0001......and quick too.....PB
Hi Adam,
That's a great alignment job, lots of tail stocks measure lower than they should, had a lathe like that where I had to shim about .009", as long as your cutter is leveled the difference wont show.
Cheers,
Pierre
if your bearing in headstock are worn the pressure on tool willcause the work to cut shallower than near the stock, simple physics
if you put a toolholder blunt end in and take it up to the work, place a dti on the work then dial in oo2 with your cross feed, then see how much movement you have in the head bearings , take a long pipe put it in the chuck, then lean on it, you'll see wear easily, least that's my take on it Adam
I wanted to add, now that the new camera mount video has been posted, this was one of the first videos I made using using the Rode mic on the machine. You can hear me better when I'm first talking at the beginning, but notice my voice isnt quite as clear when I'm behind the camera during the cuts. The mic picked up the noise of the turning tools well, but not so good when I'm talking behind it.
The mic is great for picking up audio from the direction it's pointing, but not so much from the side or behind it.
My hopes is that the isolation mount will help with the machine noise you always hear when the Noga is stuck to the machine, like on the tail stock or compound.
But anyways, just wanted you guys to know the Rode was used when filming this video.
Adam
That sort of mic is highly directional by design, specifically intended to minimise pickup from directions other than where the camera points. Maybe swing the mic around to point at you while the camera points at the machine?
Man that's close , Great job with the adjustments man .. Looking for a tail stock vid ..
Can't wait to do this on the cnc lathe
As my mentor always told me. Earth level is a starting point. If after Tramming/Alignment of the machine, earth level is off a bit, does not matter at all. How the machine cuts is what matters. If earth level is close, coolants will flow/drain correctly and really that is what earth level is for. All machines have twist and crown. If after you take the twist and crown out, and machine cuts like A bomb got it.....Earth level, Shmevel!
Hello Adam,
Your video demonstrates sometimes have a hard time getting over to people.
A lathe does not have to be level to cut true and you don't need a precision level to install a lathe. I once set up a lathe with the back left corner two inches higher than the front right corner just to prove the point.
The aim is to get the lathe to cut true and in the end the only test that matters is to cut a test piece. You showed in your previous video that you couldn't trust the level because of wear in the bed throwing off the reading.
I would rather show the factory recommended procedures to properly level out a lathe, and saying that I don't think I followed there recommendations perfectly after reading some of the older manuals. It's best IMO to use a level and get it close.
Monarch really understand the users, the lathe layout looks so easy to learn and use with a huge jump in precision with very little effort from the operator, no offense Adam. You'll always be way better than I'll ever be but I love the look of the older lathes, the 10EE is gorgeous yet you don't see that in modern lathes that can do the same but look like long oblongs......a shame . Heh and yes I am saving up for a lathe, Sherline 4400 will do for the time being, then a Myford ML7 maybe......or a 10EE if I win the lottery, lols
You could tell on the video that there was a discrepancy between the just machined journals, with a little "tool drag" on the end of the piece as you pulled the tool back. Is this what you called "push off" ? Big thumbs up!
That can be considered push off no doubt,l but I'm hoping it is also because of the twist I was getting. But any work piece hanging way out is subject to flex from the tool, thats why I chose to use very light cuts and a large diameter.
Now you've gone and done it ! *One step closer to ROCKET SCIENCE :p It's great to see an older machine get a bit of 'hot - rodding' ! Tweek it a little more, & you'll be in the SCIENCE FICTION realm ! ! !
Past few years, I've been designing and cutting faceted gems. . . using a worn out machine that was built in the '70's . . . with a great deal of eyestrain, I'm getting accuracy of a wavelength of light - *polishing facets to get the same color of 'reflected' light . . . it's practically magic ! By constantly keeping 'backlash' in check, incredible results can be had ! Horizontal & vertical angles on the machine have micro adjustments , called 'cheaters' - which leads me to the old saying 'cheating you blind' ! ! ! I must admit that ten hour days of cutting have led me to wearing stronger glasses :(
Great to see you getting some MILLWRIGHT experience & sharing it with the rest of us ! Thanks Adam !
Now that you have brought that end of the lathe up maybe the tailstock won't be so low. Since the Monarch uses a split base tail you could fairly easily shim it if you had to.
Yes i will most likely have to shim the tail stock up a bit to get it inline with the center axis.
I guess with your tools available maybe spray welding milling and file fitting might be an option as well. :-)
yeah its spot on now adam
Wow I didnt know that works. There are so many lathes with tapers from age and use. Does this mean you could reduce or eliminate this problem with ta simple table twist? Probably it will over shoot at the far end and under shoot near the chuck, but most work is done is a relatively constant area of the bed so I guess this would work. Nice
Hi Adam, I can't imagine anyone not being totally happy with that... :o]
O,,,
Well done
adam good job
A spirit level I have to acquire. Informative video, demonstrating the removal or introduction of twist to take out the taper. Clearly, it has an effect.
Do you have ventilation in the shop to get rid of the "shop fragrance"? Nice program, Adam. Thanks.
No ventilation so to speak, but I do have a fume extractor I can use, I just have never set it up for the new shop. It looks like a big turbo charger, with some pipe fittings to position the inlet where I want by the machine. The smoke has never bothered me though.
I have been told to leave the HS side 2/10 smaller by people a lot smarter than me. For certain, the lateral load on the tailstock when using live center is reduced by at least a factor of 4 due to misalignment. for this reason alone, the effort is justified.
Question: what is a "spring cut"? I tried to search for it but just come up with links to spring manufacturing. Love your vids, I've learned a lot.
Duncan
Hi, Duncan. I see this post was from several years ago, and you may have figured it out already. Any machine, no matter how rigid it appears, has a certain amount of elasticity. This means that it flexes or bends, however slightly, under high loads, such as those experienced under quite heavy cuts. Once the large cuts have been made, the lathe operator normally makes a second (or third) pass over the part, without making adjustments to the cutting depth. This allows the machine to "work out" the "springiness" inherent to all instruments, and give a true reading. Hence, the "spring" cut.
Robin Renzetti, (YT channel robrenz) is a metrologist, and he reckons that we should think of any machine or system as being made from rubber. Everything gives, no matter how slightly.
Hope this helps.
Yeah, Monarch approved !
I never doubted the big Monarch would cut good. It's made a whole lot heaftier than the new stuff. I think if you had done a spring pass on the very first cut it would have been very close to true as it was.
The 400 series SS seems to machine well. How is it for corrosion resistance and galling? I have to make some threaded rod and valve plates in the near future for a water treatment facility and it would appear to be a good material choice.
Colin ;-)
Colin, the 400 grade stainless machine excellent, but will rust and is magnetic. It's stronger than 300 though, and is used for pump shafts or motor shafts. As for galling, I believe it's slightly better than 300. We mad to machine a bunch of them with threads on each end to accept couplings.
Question: there is no need to use a coolant? because I saw the whole video but i haven;t seen coolant appliance. but anyways i learned a lot, thanks
If you put a 6 foot straight edge across the lathe and site it with a quality level like a Topcon it will be much more accurate than a machine level. I think I prove that on my two. Metre bed lathe
So with the adjustments showing half a measurement 'off' level after dialing it in, is the adjustment compensating for the headstock alignment with the bed or is it something else? Getting it down to 0.0001 after starting at 0.001 is quite the improvement! :)
I am assuming that I am compensating for wear in the machine, or twist in the bed ways.
twisting the rear part of the weys (ways?) up to compensate for the uphill travel the tool has to make to get back to the level of the part in the chuck. However, you tightened up your tolerances around the chuck area which means the further away from the chuck that you get, the more out of calibration or level the tailstock will be compared to the chuck or the material at the chuck. Am I right about this?
Adam, I enjoyed this video just as always. I hope you keep it up. Did you have to tweek up the bed many times to get to a tenth?
Adam
To what tolerances are the lathe bearings held?
Is it possible that the play regardless of how incremental in the headstock bearings will magnify itself at the far end of the stock?
Would it not be better to make sure that you run this test with the tailstock attached to the workpiece?
And again... what about the combination of run out created by the bearings in both the headstock and tailstock?
I am not a machinist and just wonder exactly how accurate you guys are supposed to be.
Please respond with your thoughts.
Thanks,
Keep up the good work,
Anon
very good Adam glad to see that your Monarch is still working just fine !!!
Thanks for sharing
ps I hope you make your own T-shirts even if you use DoubleBoosts' logo I plan on trying to buy one from him you tom Keith F and if Stanley makes one his too....there are many good metal working/movie producers (:)) ) out there
Mannhy
damn .oo1 taper in an old manual lathe ,part being that long?that's pretty damn great
Adam and Tom, I watched Tom do the alignment test cuts and you too. Nice work as always. I was wondering why make the undercut? Would the same info come out by making a cut and the both ends and then check the diameter difference without making the undercut?
All the best,
Eric
It's mainly to keep from having to take a long cut. All you need to is two areas big enough to measure.
Ideally far away from each other so you can see the full length of the travel off center. Right?
Additionally, you can move the carriage from the outer cut to the inner cut without moving the cross feed setting.
now that was a cool video :)
Great video as usual. Question, the "twist" that you called it, isn't that really uneven wear on the ways where the saddle is most heavily used?
Looking forward to the coolant fix and then the tail stock rebuild.
I was wondering about way wear too.
You have to consider wear on machines, but lathes have twist in the bed. Even brand new machines from the factory will have twist in them when you move one in and set it up. The "twist" isn't enough to see by eye, but its there.
Ok, so after my last question, I read the other comments.
lesson learned... from now on I will do that before commenting.
Now I know why you did not use the tailstock but I am still curious just how the bearings play into things. Also how accurate the lathe is supposed to be as per the factory claims/promises?
Also, what is the most accurate you ever have to be when doing the kind of work you do? Is there an industry that must work to more exacting standards?
Last question...
Wouldn't a digital level be much more accurate and a better tool for dialing in something where you are looking to make such small adjustments?
I too like those Starrett levels... have used them but don't own one... but I now fell in love with my digital level and keep a few on hand in my different shops / toolboxes.
I have come to just not liking to use my bubble levels any more.
Again, as always...KUTGW
Anon
Are the jacking screws on steel or straight onto concrete.
And is the machine bolted down? Or just sitting.
Great video, hey Adam where could a person find a oil cup like the one you use with the acid brush?
You can buy them from Mcmaster carr, and a few others. Tom Lipton just made a FAQ video and reveals some of the other places, and part numbers. It's called The Spillmaster.
What size chuck are you running?
I just picked up a 16CY and need a 4jaw and a QC tool holder.
I’ve used 400SS for windmill shafts that are exposed to weather extremes in cold climates and have never had a failure. Just a question..did you run identical tests with identical stock before moving the lathe?
What do you recommend to flush the headstock...ATF or kerosene like manual says? Just bought a 1951 monarch ck and doing all the pm before operating. Nice video btw about adjusting taper.
Thank You! Your Good!
Adam who showed you how to do that?? I seem to recall I did at Keith Rucker's scraping class? lol I have been giving Stefan some crap because he forgot to mention me in his show on lathe leveling too. I love you show people what I taught you, but please give me credit at least until I croak. Rich
the taper was strictly because of thermal sink of the chuck, and the none sink part out at the end, and that is because he was not running coolant. had he been running coolant, this taper would disappear.
Does temperature make any difference when you level and align your lathe?
Adam, why didn't you use a live center to prevent the push out?
He said that his tail stock was worn and sitting slightly low. I'm not a machinist but I think that might prevent using a live center.
Adam, I’ve tried the same test. Fixed in a four jaw dialed in and really tight but as soon as I went to start cutting it chattered and only got worse. Tried a few times with no luck. Any ideas or tips thanks.
Why didn't you use the same bit to make the undercut as to make the adjusting passes? It seemed to make a much cleaner cut.
That's because I was taking a heavier cut during the undercut. It's harder to get a bright smooth finish when your only taking a few thou using a carbide insert, depending on the insert used.
👍🏻
Can you please explain why you did the undercut first please?
Mainly to have two small straight turned areas to work off of. No real need to make a long cut. You really just need two machined areas big enough to measure.
Thanks.
Good
Is it possible to run a dial indicator on it while you're cutting to see how much push off there is?
I'm betting you would be seeing the needle flicker around too much to have an accurate reading.
Abom79 Probably...i'd never seen anyone do it and just wondered if it was a thing that could be done (might wear the tip too)
Yeah, it'll grind the tip right down. It only takes very low force to move the pin, too, so it'll also skip and chatter and be too noisy a reading to use.
Great video, made it nats ass accurate, Thanks Adam, Harvey
excuse me sir, you can call me dumb but are you supposed to support the piece with a tail stock because it's sticking out that far?
adam....... if the ways are level why wouldnt you adjust the headstock to the ways rather than twisting the ways ??
That's even close enough for Tom ha
would it not be better to keep both ends of the bed level and work the taper out with the head.
straight and level that is.
Hi Adam, I am not getting what you adjusted on lathe exactly? Level or something else? I am having problem to understand where is this headstock alignment and if this is something that can be done on any lathe.
Thank you
Ok I did search on google so its something that can be adjusted where Chuck is you pointed on the back of lathe so i was confused (English is not my primary language).
Adam:
When you stop the chuck rotation on the Monarch lathe I hear a high pitched whine from the machine. Is something running when the chuck is stopped? What's going on with that lathe, maybe some sort of idler mechanism?
Rj Morgan RJ, the electric Motor is running continous. Engaging the chuck is done via a clutch mechanism, that works better for heavy parts than kicking the engine from zero to full speed in splitseconds. Cheers
I'm curious as to why you didn't face and center drill the free end of that piece, and stick the tailstock in it. I would have thought for a test like this, that you would want the stability.
Don, I believe it is so the tail stock doesn't influence the test. Hence the really stout piece of stock.
Yes, this test is to check the alignment of the headstock with the carriage of the machine, to make sure it is cutting straight. The tail stock is a different animal to tend to. We will get to that later. To answer your question, if I was to use the tailstock holding the work piece with a center, then I would be reading the errors in the tail stock, not in the bed ways.
Abom r u using inches micrometer
Of course. Much better than meters. If you don't know why then ping and I will explain it and the history of 12.
LOL... Some more shop fragrance :)
0.0001" git down Adam! Hey, I emailed you some info on Monarch Lathes. There is some articles on millwrighting a Monarch and other info. Might be handy?
I don't think I got your email.