Tech Talk: Toyota Supra, Ruined by Bump Steer?!?!
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- čas přidán 30. 05. 2020
- Join in as I talk about what bump steer is and how it’s made an amazing car nearly unusable for serious track use!
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Exactly the critique that we (track day guys) need. Info from a firsthand hardcore user about problems like bumpsteer in the Supra or overheating 675LTs is invaluable. No car is perfect but at least our eyes are open.
Every car has it quirk now doubt and we find it quick haha
@@RobertMitchell Great video Robert, how much have you sunk into this project and willing to? Also, would the BMW have the same problem?
@@larssonk22 Toyota/BMW same suspension geometry. I'd be surprised if it has excessive bumpsteer. Stock 2019 Z4 did 7:55 Nurburgring lap time and the Supra did 7:52 lap time, which would be very difficult to achieve with excessive bumpsteer on a 97 inch wheelbase car. SportAuto has a plenty of videos of stock Supra/Z4 on the track... I saw nothing unusual. I'm familiar with front-end bumsteer on BMWs when you lower the car too much, but I've never seen/heard of rear bumpsteer from reasonably lowering a BMW. I would love to see a video of Supra bumpsteer.
NoToBigBro thats actually not correct. The car can still be drivin quick it just feels like shit. 100% has bumpsteer issues and I’ll show graphs etc on next vid
Ash YES!
More of these please, Robert. Very informative to someone who's interested in racing and everything involved, but isnt in the industry.
We will try and do more of them. They’re my favorite to make as well
@@RobertMitchell I like these as well. More suspension and alignment setup talks would be interesting to listen to. How is the optimal camber/caster/toe going to be different on a RWD car vs FWD vs AWD? What about rebound and compression? How can all these things be used to tune a cars balance? Also the Sub-7 up series was great. Hope to see another like that with a new car (I don't know if the TDI counts haha!)
@@RobertMitchell I recently watched a Video Option video on supra max speed test. The test driver there Mr Akira Iida also reported that the Supra has some problems with the stability at the rear.
czcams.com/video/Ni8tM3y8MTY/video.html
You can watch that part at 22:20 in the video.
@@RobertMitchell This was an absolute blast. Could you do one on all the BMW 3-series from old to new?
Robert Mitchell no wonder everyone is turning them into drag cars and drift cars!!!
Drifters: It's a free real estate.
I wouldn't mind you doing more videos about explaining mechanical things like toe in and out, camber and all the different things that play a part when driving on the track.
The way you explain it is very easy to follow and I think it's something a lot of people would enjoy. Something like you did with Tim recently about the Cup2 R tyres.
Yeah that would be great!
We will do for sure more. Hope you’ve been enjoying them:-)
Toyota said bump steer, BMW said character.
Look at the e30.
Over an inch of bump steer through out the suspension travel. Or 25mm.
One of the most fun cars to drive and very successful.
To give fun driving feel in stock car average driver... Often advanced and pro drive have specific preference and definately wont left the suspension geometry stock...
@@WyFoster the most successful production car winning races ever untill now
@@xo_danihn ...is the Porsche 911.
The suspension of Bmw is different
Can’t beat an honest review vs the continuously satisfied youtube “influencers”
Agri Farm Models love this comment 😎100%
Like someone already said, a comparison between the Supra and the Z4 would be really interesting.
Then why havn't you checked out the dozen of videos and articles that do exactly this?
Or hell go down to the locale dealership, and check for BMW parts?
I tell you why, cause your not that interested at the end of a day.
Every time I watch your videos Robert, I always learn many new things from them. Its not the typical vlogger approach of 'What colour should I wrap for my car?' or 'GETTING ARMYTRIX EXHAUST FOR MY LAMBORGHINI!! *INSANELY LOUD**' or '5 things I HATE about ___ car' etc. I know i'm regurgitating what other people have written in the comments section, but thank you sincerely for these very technical insights in the cars that you drive, out of your busy schedule. There's another automotive youtube channel called 'Savagegeese' who in his reviews, he takes the cars up on a two post lift to discuss about their suspension designs, cooling/aero flow and also weighs them on his corner-weight measuring device to find out their cross-weight as well as the overall weight distribution. He posted a couple of A90 Supra videos and I was surprised that he has not mentioned about the bumpsteer/alignment issue that you have been getting. Perhaps the roads/track that he's driven them on were relatively more flat than the undulating+camber filled roads you've been testing your Supra on. He mentioned on his instagram that he got his hands on the 2021 model year Supra with the updated B58, so i'm curious to see if he's going to talk about those issues you've covered too. Keep up the great work.
smilepermile: Bump-steer would be more prevalent on high-speed roads or tracks with more elevation change (i.e. places that cause more and faster suspension travel), so I’d imagine this problem would be really noticeable on the Nurburgring.
@@981porsche3 Yes, I think you're right. Savagegeese went to Summit Point Motorsports Park which most likely doesn't have as much elevation and camber changes per mile than the Nordschleife does. It appears to have shorter straights than the Nordschleife does too. By the way, great driving on your videos, nice one!
What he was describing should happen anywhere that you have high braking zones, it shouldn't be only where elevation changes are, but for sure those would make it worse. It's just any situation where the suspension will go from being compressed to uncompressed. So on a fast straight into hard braking and a turn then back on throttle would make the rear end feel like it had a mind of its own since it would be going through dramatic toe changes several times. At least that's how I'm understanding it.
I love the way you explain things Robert. Thank you.
Youre welcome!!
Thanks for another great video, Robert! I appreciate how straight forward you explain technical things and I learn something new every time. You wouldn't believe how much this carries over to a sim driver and setup
Yes I’m hearing that the sim set ups are really accurate and true to real world!!!
@@RobertMitchell Do you think that the suspension geometry has anything to do with the Japanese love of drifting perhaps?
@@RobertMitchell I think my 6:40 avg in a GT3 or similar car for Nordschleife tourist lap times on Assetto Corsa servers are predominanty due things Misha and yourself have said about tuning for The Ring.
Holy shit, I just realized I've been a sim driver for over 5 years now....bonkers
Loving these Tech Talks Robert! Very interesting
Yes that’s actually the content that I want
It’s helping me in my
I’m part of a team that participate in formula student uk and this actually helping a lot
Thank you and keep this content going ❤️
@Robert Mitchell Thank you. I recently drove a Supra for a team and it was the first time for both driver and car at the track. Bumpsteer wasn't in my mind when trying to describe what was happening but you nailed it. Thank you and look forward to seeing what you guys come up with to help solve this issue.
I'd love to see Robert do a Supra vs. BMW Z4 comparison and hear his opinion.
It think that would be a lot of fun!
it's been over a year. still looking forward to some update video about GR Supra from you guys.
I really dig the technical knowledge from you Robert! Keep this kind of informative content coming.
Knowledge is power especially behind the wheel.
Great quality content , the way you expressed and explained everything was very nice 👌🏻 and the car looks super cool in background.
I've got one and I completely agree with how weird and twitchy the rear end feels.
The strange thing is that the rear end isn't ACTUALLY stepping out when you feel this "twitch". I've done a lot of drifting in a lot of different cars (from a 350Z to a supercharged Audi R8, and currently compete in British Drift Championship) so I'm pretty familiar with how a car really feels when its about to slide and when its sliding. In this car you get that initial feeling of it starting to rotate... but then nothing actually happens. Even on track when I pumped the rear tyres up to 45 psi to make it slide around more easily and then intentionally tried to upset the balance, its hard to actually get it to start sliding properly. Of course you can make it break loose, but I'm just saying it takes way more effort than that initial twitchy feeling would have you believe. So I think there's a chance it might have been an intentional choice from Toyota/BMW. I think their logic could have been that It makes the car feel "playful" to people who aren't particularly experienced with drifting or track driving - but without it actually being dangerous and making people oversteer everywhere.
I think you'll be interested to see the next couple videos on this topic then. We have some cool stuff coming out.
I also do not think this was planned rather a screw up as they are changing it on new cars
ChrisDrift i have a really difficult time believing BMW would dial this into a chassis, it makes no sense. The people that buy them are on the enthusiast side of things, If they start to feel like the back end has too much rear end oversteer at corner entry or mid corner, the driver will intuitively adjust his throttle and steering (counter steer). If that happens, you are further disrupting the balance of the car, the chassis, suspension, brakes and tires are now doing something totally at odds with one another and you are going to either kill your lap time or end up backwards or in a guard rail OR you are going to learn slowly and form really poor driving techniques. This can’t be something that was invented to take place. Hope they get it figured out as it appears the car has a lot of promise.
So good, this is the kind of car channel that I always wanted. This is immeasurably informative!
I think these are the videos what can give you and edge over Misha. So you can explain these things (and show) really well and point out the technical things. You invest time in it to show how it works. + a honest opinion makes the whole video better. I wish you would have the same detailed video about all your cars. Good and bad things too.
FreestylerAlbert it’s not about getting an “edge over” Misha man. I understand what you are saying and I really enjoy Robert’s technical knowledge and deep insight which differs from Misha’s vlogs, but I don’t like the way you phrased that.
@@tonycarpaccio9550 I ment explain wise. Read the whole sentetence not just the 2 words.
@@FreestylerAlbert dude above is right, everything he said went right over ur head lol
No slight to misha, his enthusiasm for the ring is contagious. Not to mention showing you not only how to make the best of your TF at the ring but the facilities available near the Nordschliefe. I discovered Robert through Misha.
However I subscribed to Rob's channel AND hit the bell icon. I dont usually do that😂. Appreciate what you do Rob💪.
And here we are. New geometry is made and mounted. All we need now is a vid of it going round the ring.
The conclusion was powerful Robert, especially because it indeed did happen. Nice work from you, Verkline and all involved.
I’m just a regular car guy with no knowledge whatsoever about mechanical setups or anything like that, but I enjoyed this technical explanation so much more than I anticipated. I have no clue how suspension really works, but this was so informative and accessible at the same time. Congrats on that, I mean it - making alien concepts accessible and understandable to an audience is an art form in itself. And this I know because I teach for a living.
So glad to hear you’re relating! That makes it fun. I’ll keep doing some intros to certain concepts and hope it can help some
@@RobertMitchell definitely looking forward to those!!!
Fantastic video Robert.
Keep bringing high quality content like this. From real car guys, for real car guys.
Thank you!
It's almost like the car was engineered to have a 4 cylinder block instead of a 6 cylinder, but needed to stick a 6 cylinder suddenly and didn't have enough time to redevelop/balance for new heavier front end...
Japan has a 4cyl model, not sure if exporting to other countries yet.
@@Drift13b88 ya it is. at least us and germany. and it seems to be received better than the inline 6
@@ScReamOut93 I think all of europe, Norway is getting it too
@@Drift13b88 The US is getting the 4cyl in this next revision, but its set up to be a GT car, smaller breaks, softer suspension changes, much less HP
This is maybe a bit irrelevant, but the car behaves exactly as you describe in Gran Turismo Sport. Tons of rear end control loss. Interesting to see how accurate the game was, and also disappointing for the platform. Thanks for the video
Don’t rely on that game trust me you’ll end up on the wall but yea good point
I hate driving it in the game. I always crash it, it’s so hard to control. And I don’t have that problem with the others
Sounds accurate then 🤣🤣
Yeah. Same. Unfortunately you can't feel the slip under your ass to appreciate you losing control.
I drove the Supra on the Nurburgring in GT Sport and it was all over the place! I thought it was the tires I chose, regular sport tires, not racing. It was difficult to keep it from floating around. Now I know why!
Another excellent video with technical explanations! Keep it coming.
Rob, I love this shit!
Thank you for talking about suspension geometry and driving dynamics. The Pista vids were great and very informative as well.
My back ground is driving solid axle vehicles used in rock crawling and general off road use. Bump steer is probably the biggest issue to deal with on a rig that is used for both rock crawling and highway use. To design a suspension system and take into account ackerman, scrub radius, instant center, roll center, anti squat, anti dive, the toe in or out you want it's a massive mine field of information overload. I love nerding out on this stuff!
BTW, Mr. Tim Burton is going to come around soon I presume. I would love to see you guys do a "pod cast" style video and just talk about cars or whatever. I think that would be really interesting.
Thanks again for these vids, very interesting.
Love your video's Robert and am very in tune with your way of thinking on this matter.
Another great video Robert! Keep them coming
Wow just wow.
So good with a honest opinion
You just keep impress me 👍
futte2303 not an opinion, it is fact. That’s why his videos are great. 👍
Robert thank you fair making such videos as this for us to really understand flaws with new cars and help others to make an better decision when buying these cars for the intended purpose that they are built for. Keep it up !
Very nice breakdown with simple words underlining the problems of each car showing that you have deep knowledge, unlike the majority of youtubers
Thank you!!!
Enjoying these technical explanation videos. More please Robert
Thank you for this video and your honesty. You just saved me a huge regret. Looking forward to see how you go about fixing this if it can be done.
You’re Welcome and thank you for checking it out
A very good and clear explanation as always!
You are the only vlogger who has pointed this out. It’s crazy no one has commented about this!
because it's not as bad as they are saying it, some time attack driver have talk about this, seems he is the only one to cry about it
I'm loving these videos,keep it up 👍🏻
Enjoy these type of video's to Robert 👍🏻
That wrap looks absolutely amazing on the Supra, 1st time watching ur vids, gotta sub now
Thanks for the sub!
I find it unlikely BMW/Toyota would have allowed such a bump steer sensitive design to manifest from multibody simulation all the way to series production vehicles.. Are the build sequence numbers of the problematic Supras close together? A possible cause may be, tolerance stack up across the suspension hardpoints, combined with maturity/variation of the child parts as they ramp up production. Additionaly the lowered ride height could exaggerate the issue further.
Have you disconnected the damper and measured the rear axle geometry through its travel?
Is the rear axle isolated? Intersting to see the bushing design, as shortfalls in subframe bushing Z-stiffness could lead to significant axle movement under 'spirited' driving.
I suggest you raise the issue with Toyota, and if enough people have an issue with it they will follow their business processes to resolve the problem.
Interesting to hear your experience on this, as I have seen issues like this pop up at various prestigious OEM's in the past.
why not just run some spacers on the tie rod end to change the bump curve (after plotting it).
I think this video will go viral. Your inputs are so Spot On!
Such a great video Robert. From a different end of the spectrum but when I first picked up my E36 my control arm bushings were so flogged it had MAJOR toe change mid-corner, all fixed now but confirms suspicions I had about the Supra. In my half hour drive of a Supra (several months ago now) I didn't diagnose this problem, but it was definitely a difficult car to trust on the road. Felt great, as you said, when the car was loaded but definitely 'loose' under brakes and interestingly when only driven at 6/10 it wasn't very pleasant either. So great to hear the reason behind it.
yes shot business will make a horrible car to drive
Entertaining and informative video! An interesting issue, and the way you teach makes me learn a lot! 🙂👍
Man the audio quality in your videos is on another level 💪💪💪
Loved this Robert! Very informative, great explanation.
Such interesting balanced insight, thank you for the video and your efforts... really cool.
Your welcome!!!! Thank you for the support
Same thing I felt when I went for a test drive with the first GT86 to be honest. On the Internet everyone seemed in love with the lively back ( for drifts with it's power limitations I suspect ) but it didn't feel confident in high speed corners where you build load into the exterior wheels of a corner.
Evening Robert, thanks for your insight/thoughts into why the supra was removed from the fleet.
Your videos like this are why I subbed. More please
I have heard this from a Supra owner, but he isn't a track guy so I took it with a grain of salt. So good to hear an honest review of the car and it's issues. Keep the videos going, all of us track guys and racers enjoy them very much! Hoping someday to make it over to Apex and get some taxi laps and rental laps at the 'ring.
Very interesting video. Awesome explanation of bump steer etc. Very honest opinion regarding the car's flaws. The other individuals haven't pointed this out because everyone wanted this car to be such a success that they aren't willing to point it out. You are, because you are willing to try and fix it. That's unique to the "CZcams world".
Really great video Robert! Very infomative and to the point!
Much appreciated!
Another great video, i started mechanical engineering tried to reach chasis/suspensions on nice racing series someday, sadly life revoqued my dreams (dont even own a car). This is super interesting and you are extremely spot on how you explained it. Hope you get to the bottom of it. I have seen analysis cases of bad angles on steering racks and links ruining front suspensions travel toes but you cant counter misbehavior of rear suspension with your hands, very surprised here.
I’d love to see more of these kind of videos Robert! Also, have you considered making a video about your opinion on Koenigsegg, hypercars, and that kind of cars, would be great to hear an opinion from you!
Fantastic video explaining bump steer and toe angles. Well done.
Glad you liked it!
I have no idea how this video or the McLaren video popped up on my feed but I'm glad it did. Quality content, thank you.
I’m glad it did too!!!!
Amazing video Robert. Really fascinating!! Thanks
So insightful, you’re the only one point this flaw out. Keep up the good work.
Robert: "Let's talk about facts"
Also Robert: Provides eleven minutes and thirty two seconds of conjecture with no backup
I'm not trying to defend the Zupra, I 'm looking for the facts. Providing alignment specs as received, and since you are noting bump steer, toe figures at rest, fully loaded, partially loaded & negatively loaded while on the stock suspension setup, then provide those figures again for whatever modified suspension setup you are running now is what would have made your conjecture facts. Saying "the rear feels twitchy on lift off or hard braking" without any corroboration/data isn't a fact, it's conjecture/opinion.
Additional note: the Zupra has a "50:50" weight distribution, however more than half of that I-6 is forward of the front axle, that isn't helping under braking, as it will make the rear lighter than if it were inboard, hence my suggestion to check it negatively loaded and provide the numbers.
When I look at the engine bay sans-plastic cover, it makes me think somewhere in development Toyota had planned to go with a version of their V6TT, but nixed it for cost savings (or I-6 fanboi love) during production. I think it would have been a better handler with the V6TT, as more of the weight would have been inside the wheelbase, but that's just my opinion.
yes I had the same question about this vid, too. They state supra had the bump steering "feelings" and twitchy on weight transfer, but gave no scientific examination. I didn't see any strong evidence on this video
Thanks again for great insights! I will go through all my cars to learn about their stock geometry. My goal is to get as smart as to understand whether there is room for improvement and understanding what my preferred setup optimally is for each car. Ig, I want to learn if some of the loading up on the steering can be eliminated by adjustments in geometry. My 328 GTB and my 308 GTB rally-rebuild suffer from heavy load-up but not my 246 Dino nor my 1st gen testarossa. Also, I will seek to additionally improve Autobahn high speed stability on my Rolls Corniche. It improved greatly with Öhlins front shocks - now I'll give its geometry a closer study. Thanks again, Robert, very inspiring!
I think I know about cars because I've been pretty much looking and reading into them ever since I was a child. Then I ser these videos.. and I realize how much of an ignorant I actually am on the topic I love the most. Literally jawdropped.
Love your insights and the way you transmit knowledge, very cool yet very insightful.
Will definitely stop by Apex if I ever go to the Nurburgring!
Great content! I'm glad u address this issue & speak out about it .( not like Car Journalist that hide the truth) also, I'm glad u see the potential on this new Supra & are willing to develop it to bring out the full potential as well.
Question.. Does the Z4 behave as well as the Supra? Or did BMW engineers do a better job on the Z4?
Good info and excellent vid ... as usual! Thank you Robert!
Thank YOU!!
Thank you for an honest review of the Supra , all magazines and CZcams reviewers are afraid to say anything negative about this car.
@Robert Mitchell: I don’t know about the Supra specifically, but companies do make toe links (tie rods) with bump steer kits which more closely aligns the pivot points of the toe arms with the pivot points of the lower control arms (which is how you fix bump steer on cars with a McPherson Strut suspension). As you said, this is a common problem on cars that have been lowered (like a race car, for example), and that’s how you can solve it with an aftermarket solution.
Also, bump-steer would be more prevalent on high-speed roads or tracks with a lot of elevation change (i.e. places that cause more and faster suspension travel), so I’d imagine this problem would be really noticeable on the Nurburgring!
Here is a video on bump steer and roll steer, so you (and others) can visualize the geometry of bump steer: czcams.com/video/P2PYBzH0AYk/video.html
Usually, as you mentioned, car manufacturers design the bump steer to not cross over from toe in to toe out during bump and rebound. It is a more common problem with race cars because, they are often lowered, but also because race cars usually have a toe out alignment on the front to help with turn-in-something you really never do on a street car alignment because it makes the car feel more “darty,” especially with the crowning of most public roads. That makes bump steer problems a lot more prevalent on dedicated track cars. However, the fact that the problem is on the back with the Supra is really surprising.
Anyway, great video, as usual! I can’t believe they made a sports car with so much bump steer right from the factory 🙄
Robert, top notch insight! Have been watching your videos for some time, and would love to see Apex have an FK8 Type R, a global car as the Supra is, and get your insights on how you feel about it in stock form and your journey on modifying it so the suspension feels right on Street & Track. Cheers from Canada :) - Humza
2:26 - Toyota's "Oh, what a feeling!" slogan just got updated. :) You made the safest choice not to run the car despite it being terrible for business and it's THOSE kinds of decisions which can only reflect positively on the Apex brand. Excellent stuff!
Just found your channel 3 days ago .. I love It !!
Welcome!! Glad to have you on board
Great vid. Super informative and really well explained!
Been reliably informed that the 2021 Supra has received redesigned suspension parts. Really enjoy these Tech Talks.
Nice to know this. Counting the days until someone offers a whole new rear hub with different rod attachment geometry for the Supra. Hopefully they fix it, cuz its such a nice car..
Very interesting to hear this. Keep us updated
Will do!
Love the content! Great work!!
That's some high quality content, Mr. Mitchel.
Excellent video, thanks.
I have set up my BRZ to have a little Toe-in to address oversteer.
But it is still very aggressive on steering input.
Enjoyed this thanks Robert. From my experience with BMW, stupid soft rear subframe bushes with big gaps in them cause this too! Horrible feeling at speed!
NHV on non M cars was the culprit.
Fitting the four solid rubber bushings from M3/5 totally cured it. The steering was transformed, once the slop was taken out of the rear.
I've got an M140i and sometimes the rear end feels disconnected from the car, I suspected the rear subframe bushes.
Steady Red
That’s a lot of the reason yes.
Have a look on babybmw.com forum, where this issue has been covered in great detail 👍🏻
Fascinating talk, thanks for shining a light from your experiencd
Wow, very well explained 👌
I think I have a similar problem with my Opel GT roadster but at least it is a 12 year old car and I don‘t drive tracks.
Hope you get the problem solved.
great honest video. And still, that car, from that lower camera angle, looks soooo good.
It is a sharp angle. The boys spent quite some time debating what their fav angle was on the car hehe
It might be worth looking into the rear subframe mounts. I have an e92 335i with factory squishy lemforder bushings which are known to cause a wondering rear end, but plan on upgrading to M3 or solid bushings in the future which is supposed to be a big improvement. I'm not familiar with the Supra's set up but it might have something similar going on.
Thank you always be honest so many people just say the same thing when they evaluate a new car just to keep the manufacture happy
Thank you and brilliantly explained
Wow, what a great video; wasn't expecting such depth when I originally clicked
Glad you enjoyed and seeing you around in the comments
HPDE and AutoX'er. Just got a Supra, didn't know the Apex team had a Supra, watched this video. Fawk... Super informative and thank you!
Thanks for your honest review and your commitment in making that car better. What kind of rims is that Supra sitting on?
Look like Protrack One.
Great video. You should definitely reach out to Jackie Ding and see what suspension mods he's running. He has posted lots of track videos and actually crashed his first one!
Amazing video !!!!!!!! Please more of this technical stuff
Thanks this is very infomative, i really wanted "and still do" have hopes for the new supra. i knew it would be a stretch to live up to the old mk4's rep but i still think its an amazing car, i hear the engine is pretty stout also with people pushing decent hp on stock internals.
Mega interesting, learned something. Thanks Robert.
Would it be possible to disconnect the shock and then move the wheel up and down through it’s full articulation with an alignment laser or something like that attached, to show the deviation from a vertical plane?
This is what i look for at the internet. Please make more videos like this.
thank you!! more incoming
Awesome technical review... I wonder why this was not revealed in any of the other million youtube reviews. You think, a) they won't point it out because it's bad reputation for them amongst the brand or b) they could not feel it because the majority of the reviews are focused in many other details and not the real hard-core technical ones?? Cheers Robert, keep it up 👊👊
Looking forward to seeing this fixed!
That's a great inside Robert. Such a car with a great name and history to came like this, is the same for those driver's with jepp, suv's or tt(4×4), but don't use it for the purpose that was make. As you say, a lot of guys have "tested" and didn't get it.
So there a lot of bad revue/test.
Robert, just mastering the drive. 💪👏👌
I somewhat agree with your premise. You're not describing what's really going on with no toe. What's causing the "follow the road" effect doesn't really have anything to do with the toe being zero. It's because of the way tie rod ends work. Having toe in/out puts inward/outward tension on the TREs. Which makes the steering feel "tighter" and less "wandering". No toe essentially introduces "slop" in the steering because the TREs are not under inward/outward tension. Making it feel like the wheels want to "follow the road", particularly when driving in a straight line. But it's really that it's just not as easy to keep them from "following the road" due to this inherent "slop" in the steering when driving straight. Other than that zero toe is optimal. Since you rob yourself of some power with that wheel scrub too.
Insightful. Given that we know the Supra uses a unique combination of BMW suspension parts, one wonders if excessive rear bump steer is also present on any BMWs, like the Z4 or M2. I would imagine the Supra rear subframe (which as you know has an effect on geometry) is also from the BMW parts bin. And if this much bump steer exists on some BMWs as well, I wonder why it took the Supra for the problem to become apparent.
In cases like this, thank goodness for well engineered aftermarket solutions.
2 different types of car owners lol
Thanks a lot Robert such a great didactic video !
One day I will dive more info these geometry settings for my miata.😉
Glad you liked it! and you'll love it when you get in and tune in the set up in any car!!
Really enjoy the handling dynamic’s talk 👍🇬🇧
Very informative and well explained 👍
Very honest and informative. Great info. Subscribed.
Thank you for the sub!
Great video another truly informative in-depth explanation 👍🏻 8:08 👋🏼🤣
Your technical knowledge is mindblowing.