CSL DD vs. ALPHA MINI vs. CAMMUS DD!!!
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- čas přidán 21. 12. 2021
- The Simagic Wheelbase was sent to me by Simracingpros.com and approved by Simagic for review purposes. Thank you to both for this awesome opportunity!
Simagic Website: www.simagic.com/
Simracingpros.com: simracingpros.com/
If you would like to purchase a Cammus Wheelbase or bundle, please consider using my code "doug" it helps the channel and gives you almost $50.00 off the total.
Wheelbase:
shop.windbooster.com/product/...
Wheel + base:
shop.windbooster.com/product/...
Music by: Traibing - Hry
Craftsmanship:
+3 Mini
+2 Cammus
+1 CSL
Power:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Size/weight:
+3 Mini
+2 CSL
+1 Cammus
Appearance:
+3 Mini
+2 Cammus
+1 CSL
Mounting:
+3 CSL
+2 Cammus
+1 Mini
Tuning Software:
+3 CSL
+2 Mini
+1 Cammus
Value:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Connections:
+3 Cammus
+2 CSL
+1 Mini
Ecosystem:
+3 CSL
+2 Mini
+1 Cammus
Game Compatibility:
+3 CSL
+2 Mini
+1 Cammus
Quick Release:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Convenience:
+3 Cammus
+2 CSL
+1 Mini
Materials:
+3 Mini
+2 Cammus
+1 CSL
Customer Service:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Overall FFB Satisfaction:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Small FFB Detail:
+3 Mini
+2 CSL
+1 Cammus
Large FFB Detail:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Practicality:
+3 Cammus
+2 Mini
+1 CSL
Totals:
Cammus- 40
Mini- 38
CSL- 30
i think you need to pin this comment. Strong video tho!💪👌
@@sleit0n whoops thought I did. Thank you!
Ordered my mini! If I needed a fancy wheel I would have gone with one of the other two, simagic wheels are so expensive. Although I have seen a few eBay usb flappy paddle systems from Russia that bolt between hub and wheel if I wanted to do gt racing.
Your value calculations are off. It seems like you're purely looking at nm per $ in which case CSL comes in second. It's $60 per nm. Mini is $63.
@@regibson23 I did the calculations purely on how I feel. There is no way you can put these 3 up against each other any other way imo. They are all great, they all perform and do what they are supposed to do, it boils down to the individual and what they hold highest, what categories are most important to them.
I feel you hold looks, sound levels and mounting options high on your list. :)
I feel I did these wheelbases justice and if you don't agree, that's ok! We all value things differently, I just hope I can help people decide what's best for them as individuals.
I think you're the only person(end user) in this world that own all of this budget direct drive combo
I was so excited to be able to do this video and I have been waiting a long time. I'm happy that Cammus came on to the scene shortly after I announced I was planning a CSL DD vs Simagic video. This really added a whole different layer that is much welcomed in this space!
This is what we wanted to see man; short, crisp and to the point reviews. No doubt many other channels like sim racing garage put in hours and hours in maybe a simple quick release review but that detail is mostly unwanted. Good to see your unbaised thoughts
Thank you! I have been wanting to make a CSL DD vs Simagic video for a good while, the Cammus popping onto the scene was really unexpected.
What a GREAT comparison of these DD wheelbases!
No real big surprises (to me), but awesome to have it all explained so succinctly! 👍👍👍
This video was more to help people decide if they were struggling to make a choice. Even though Cammus won on paper with the points, if you or others value one of the categories more, it's easier to decide I think.
you're easily one of the most honest reviewers ive seen
Literally what I told him too
Thank you both! I know it can hurt my chances working with certain companies in the future but if they make something I can stand behind, I think people are able to see that shine through on the videos.
Even though Simagic and Fanatec got 2nd and 3rd in this video that doesn't make them bad options but for someone wanting to feel confident they made a solid choice based on the qualities they hold most important, this video can help I think.
Lol
Loving waking up to these every morning this week. You're the hardest working man on sim racing youtube right now.
That's a huge compliment man, I'm happy to be that for you right now! I got 4 more Simagic videos planned for release, 2 of them filmed, a pedal review, pedal mod video and then a ton of regular videos of course.
I haven't abandoned Simterviews btw, just made it my goal to get product related stuff out before Christmas so people can be informed.
No doubt, he puts stuff out in time for coffee. It also explains the high count of pajama vids.
@@CypressWalker lol
Those reviews might not feel as "professional" as some other simracing youtubers, but I really love how you dare to be honest, when all the others direct drive reviews are like "this is still inferior to a simucube2 ultimate, but it costs a lot less so it's ok" clearly avoiding a comparision with direct competitors to not make any company angry. Also thank you for reviewing lots or more obscure chinese products, i got the handbrake you liked less about one year ago, and it's still great value compared to "premium" offerings.
Hear hear
Thank you for your kind words, that is my goal here!
Any one of these products on their own could please someone for years to come but with so many choices these days it's nice to be able to see how they stack up to each other in all the ways I could think of.
Did you get the samurai sword or the one with the integrated handle?
@@kenhiew2900 :)
@@DouglasThompson the samurai one, the others weren't available on amazon when i bought it, but i payed only 60€ for it, more than worth them! Now i'd need a sequential shifter but amazon doesn't have any here, so i think i'd have to go the aliexpress way
EDIT: BTW another "broke simracing" suggestion i have: instead of buying expensive button box to have paddles on your wheels, on 3drap you can buy paddle shifters at less than 40€ (a bit more for the "pro" ones, but they're worth the extra cost), and get an aluminum or carbon plate cut for you, then you only need a joystick board (10€ on amazon) and some buttons (10 metal ones for 9€) and you can have a custom USB button plate for any wheel you like really cheap (i can send you photos of the two i made for myself)
@@martinocesaratto that would be cool to see. demureg@gmail.com
Awesome review, you rock! Great job on everything. Happy holidays.
You as well man! Thank you for all your support you give!
Definitely my favorite sim gear reviewer. Thanks for all the work you do 👌
Thank you for watching and sharing how you feel! Makes me feel proud to do what I'm doing!
@@DouglasThompson You should be proud! Keep being you, man
I like how fair you are! Straight to the point as well! Great content!
Thanks man! I try.
Best comparison, straight to the point, no BS video.
Thank you much! I tried to be as straight forward as possible. They are all great but I know my choice! ;)
I just wanna say that I've never enjoyed a review more than this one. So much explained, fast and with a clear voice.
I was in the market for the CSL DD to switch from my toy G29, but it's out of stock till July. I'm so glad I found your video, and now have two other options to look at. Thank you!
That was my exact goal, to share my knowledge of these three great options to help people like you find something that will suit their needs/wants. :)
You are the most honest and relatable reviewer and I'm not talking just about sim racing stuff, all youtube categories in general! You comprehensively dive into the equipment and compare stuff that are so obvious yet so important to a regular buyer. And from these three, although that Alpha Mini looks gorgeous and I would probably never need anything more personally, I love the path that Cammus are on. That wheelbase and the QR, for that price, with all those functions is totally crazy. And hopefully if they continue the software R&D and bring us updates I'm sure they can extract waay more out of that base. They are in a position to push the market to a different level with that price to performance and quality ratio. Bottom line I think is, if you have a rig to mount that giant ass brick on, that Cammus wheel base is a no brainer. You said it perfectly!
Thank you so much!
And yes the motor is a 17nm motor that is down tuned, I asked them if it would be possible to extract more force out of the wheelbase through firmware updates and they said yes, they are long term testing the wheelbase at different levels to see what the maximum they can get out of it will be. ;)
what a substantial size difference between the alpha mini and the cammus. another great vid Doug!
It really is...it's gigantor compared. That's why I wanted the mini in the Middle so that could be seen! ;)
@@DouglasThompson just gotta say that its amazing that you are one of the only reviewers that has compared all 3 wheelbases. thanks for your hard work. imo fanatec is like the apple of the sim racing world while simagic is like samsung. cammus huawei/xiaomi. hahaha
@@keanetan2439 lol that's a great comparison!
@@keanetan2439 100% agregó. Fanatec has became something like the Apple religion in simracing, Even has an army of "fanatecs" after it.
Correct! Lol
That was direct and informative and should be part of any potensial buyers due dilligence. If I were to replace my AF based on this video I would go for the Cammus out of these three because of the headroom and the fact that I don't like/need too much/sharp details. And the price of the Cammus is about half of what I payed for my AF almost 7 years ago!
Visually it is Simagic all day though.
Good to see a growing number of DD's for the masses.
Agree 100%
I actually used to refer people to accuforce as the best budget DD PC option before Fanatec came out with the CSL DD.
No it's all about Simagic and Cammus around this price point. They are the 2 biggest forces in this range.
Gotta go with the simagic. I can see for rally and dirt where you may not care as much about the small details, but the DD wheel craze began because everyone wants to feel these details.
The other huge selling point of the mini is because of its small size, and cable location, your monitor mounting positions are much more flexible than about any other wheel on the market.
I did really like that about the Simagic actually...I didn't have to worry about my cables hitting my monitor stand. Good point!
I hope you do another review or comparison because simagic been doing very well on the ecosystem and their software
Simagic has many new impressive products.
All great options imo, each warranting their price range. I think the user can really decide what factors are most important to the buyer.
Yes indeedy, I'm going to try and break this video up into small sections so it's easier to navigate when I get time.
Good comparison mate. I'm in UK and had my mini arrive two days ago. Simagic rim quality is phenomenal imo. I went with the GT1-D rim and I'm super happy with the entire package. I mainly drive GTE.
it really is a great setup. could easily accept it as my forever base.
@@DouglasThompson well I'll at least be happy with it for a couple of years until I go for an SC2 Pro. That's the dream base right there.
@@LowBlow I've heard nothing but good from them! Great end goal!
great info, thanks for sharing this!!
Any of the 3 would be great choices, honestly. What type of racing you do is one of the biggest factors ime.
@@DouglasThompson I’m into sim drifting ! I have a t300 rs id like to upgrade soon looking at the alpha mini a lot!
@jacobgoyeau the mini is a great base, super cool, knly thing I didn't like was the price and the non standard mounting base size but you can get an adapter.
Great comparison buddy!👌
Thank you much RVR!
Trust your reviews more than any other sim reviews..
Thank you so much! That is what I try to do and I'm glad you can appreciate it!
Great video Doug, nicely explained! I really like Alpha mini tho. It's so tiny but powerfull. thanks for sharing ✌️
It really is a cool base!
Nice comparison, small note you can also buy the CSL universal hub for the DD which has buttons/QR and paddle shifters combined for around 150 bucks. I picked it up with the Black Friday deal they had and although it is plastic I'm satisfied with it so far.
Definitely a good option but quality-wise I would not put the CSL universal hub in the same category as what Cammus has to offer. Thank you for adding that though, it's an option for Fanatec users that need a cost effective way to attach any rim they want.
@@DouglasThompson Indeed immediately bought 3 rims lol
thanks. you convinced me with the cammus.
Well if you buy from me right now it's 500 dollars flat no shipping. First 30 usa customers only
My favorite review on these products.
Thank you much! I tried to break it down so people could target exactly what features ere important to them.
I've bought a Fanatec CSL DD aaaand even if it first felt like heaven coming from my tmx wheel, after a few months i'm starting to regret not being aware of those other options back then because this DD base has lots of flaws, feel like really poor materials have been used, the wheel is kinda bent already (less than 200hours of actual usage), the ffb is weird af sometimes, like something is broken inside the base and sometimes not, like totally random
The more I use it, the cheapest it feels and I had issues with stuff, Fanatec customer service is awfully slow, If you don't harass them, nothing happens, had to wait 3 weeks to receive a replacement piece that broke on their (really cheap and poorly manufactured) table clamp
... Yeah wouldn't recommend anything from Fanatec at this point, big disappointment even tho it's kind of "expected" for such a "low price"
Great video btw, straight to the point, crystal clear informations ! cheers
You sound about as lucky as me when it comes to Fanatec gear. I have had quite a few occasions when I had to make use of Fanatec's "customer service" it's more like a disservice...lol
If they spent a bit more of thier profits on customer service and quality control they might be in a more favorable position in my mind. They make some good gear and they do a lot of promotion for simracing but they are not my favorite people...
This is good info. I’ve just jumped from console to PC and looking for a DD. Fanatec sound horrible to get hold of, have stuff delivered and just deal with on a human level it seems. Where I thought it excelled was quality, eco system and range. But, if quality is as you say, that’s another reason to avoid them. They are also always out of stock in Australia where I live.
@@rover1374 Consider that Fanatec has a much larger user base and has been around for a lot longer, so there will be a lot more people eager to complain and even more that are using it happily with no issue.
Simagic all day bro. Couldn't be happier I cancelled my CSL and got the mini alpha. Has exceeded every expectation I've had and then some. Nice vid bro.
its around 80% more expensive vs the fanatec
@@joost1183 What?
If you want just a round wheel with Fanatec and 8Nm.
It is 480€ for base and then additional minimum of 200€ for the wheel (WRC, Mclaren GT3) or if you want something bigger, because you find 30cm to be a bit on the small side, so something like 33-35cm, you need a Podium Hub. So in total you are paying 680€.
Simagic Alpha Mini for 13Nm with their wheelside 70mm QR you pay 735€ and you already have the QR. So there is only 55€ difference which if we ASSUME that they have the same strength, which they don't. Is not even 10% more expensive, compared to the Fanatec.
*I have excluded the rim price in both of these examples. Because we are interested in price difference to mount the wheel and not total price with the wheel.
But if you wan't podium level of wheel, then you get the whole GT1 pack for 1080€
With Fanatec Porsche Podium steering wheel which is 550€ extra the total is 1030€
Again, the price difference is still about 50€.
So I don't understand on what you are basing your claims.
Also with Fanatec it is known that the button caps keep braking, even the podium ones. Simagic buttons are made differently, so I don't expect to see a single one broken/split. On my Universal HUB all button caps have split in about a year of use.
@@nejcmirtic529 8nm is also not really enough for a standard 350mm steering wheel so you're really limited to sim racing wheels (only fanatec wheels will work) and the least desirable aftermarket ones.
@@Shakshuka69 I know, noticed that with my CSW 2.5 for 2kg combo of Universal Hub and 33cm OMP GP Racing steering wheel. That it is losing details compared to the Formula V2.5 when I borrowed it from a friend for a comparison. But as I said earlier this week, when I decide to swap it will most likely be a SC2 Pro or the second best thing VRS DFP.
The Simagic is a great option at this price point, as I said, if you hold Small FFB Detail high with a good amount of headroom, it's the clear choice of the 3.
Great review man. I currently own the alpha mini and absolutely love it! Would love to see you do a review on the new immsource! Heard it's Playstation compatible.
Really...I'll have to check into that. Maybe I'll reach out to them.
Great review man! Cammus seems to be the underdog winner. Wish these cheaper bases were out when I was in the market. I dropped 2k when I bought my Dd1 and wheel. Cammus seems like a valid cheaper option. Great job man
I had a DD1 with F1 wheel combo as well, paid 1800...sold it for the CSL DD. Lol
@@DouglasThompson really!? Wow. Yeah I don’t get it how all these cheaper bases can outperform a product that’s twice as expensive. It’s a little annoying tbh. Are you gonna stick with the csl dd or switch over? If so which one?
@@dirtinthebox32 I have switched over to the Cammus full time, I am keeping the csl DD as backup still though.
you are a very fair reviewer...excellent job, son!
Thank you dad!
@@DouglasThompson 🚓
@@richardthompson7611 🎠
Cheers brother earned a sub finally a no bs reveiw gonna go with the alpha as I do alot of open wheel racing
Nice man! Glad I could provide some info to help confirm your choice!
@@DouglasThompson cheers for the reply, should be here in the next day or two =) just got the base as I have osw rims
@@emde174 you will love it. Great little base and impressive for the size.
Great video bro , even though I don't need another wheel base I can't take my eyes off the Cammus 🤷
Lol it's the bane of a Sim racer...
Hopefully they'll actually have it for sale soon ("wishlist" is the only option from those links) and from a retailer in the states. $150-200 for shipping means the base w/wheel is actually $900 + taxes, while the base alone is $650 + Taxes
Are you talking about the Cammus? If so the store is being altered. You have to contact Rebecca on that page.
I agree with the other commenters. The other channels go into great detail and depth. Sometimes its not always what a new sim racer wants to hear. it's about time someone compared DD wheels. This puts the explanations out there makes it much easier for a new person getting into direct drive wheels needs to hear. helps them make the best decision they can.
I'm selling my CSW wheel base , My dilemma now is should I sell my Fanatec Clubsport V3 pedals and get the Sim Magic pedals or wait for cammus pedals? or just hang on them for now?
I also do Rally racing.
Not sure why my first comment didn't post everything I wrote but I suggest to keep the V3's, the Simagic pedals definitely feel better for the most part but the Fanatecs feel great for the money. I also like the fanatec hydraulic brake pedal better than Simagics. Simagics feels more like air than fluid.
I agree too that it's great to finally see a comparison of DD wheels. The only other proper DD wheels comparison I found is from the Simracing Garage from more than 5 years ago..
About the FFB overall satisfaction and detail (the most important part imho): maybe the less detail of the Cammus is due to some smoothing that could be tweaked in the future with newer versions of their software?
Btw, I like the name the "DTDD Emporium" (tagline could be "The comparison videos that the simracing garage doesn't do anymore").
@@favs970 lol I don't want to throw a jab at Barry, I think he does great work. The tuning software is still in it's infancy with Cammus so it will indeed improve with time. Don't get me wrong it feel great and is my favorite feeling of all three! I use a motion rig when I race on my own time and that actually introduces all that sort of small vibrations that the Cammus is a bit worse at so when my rig is doing it's thing the pedals, shifter, handbrake, steering wheel, seat all have that road noise feel! ;)
@@DouglasThompson hehe yeah I like Barry too, I was just wishing for more comparison vids.. (and to the SRG much deserved credit, he was basically the only one to ever do DDs comparisons before)
@@favs970 He seems top be slowing his content down a bit, not sure if maybe he is busy outside of youtube or just needed a break.
Canceled my csl dd and went with vrs direct force. Couldn’t be happier. Great comparison.
Let me know how the VRS is! :) Been hearing a lot about that option.
I reached out to them to see if they would be willing to send a review unit.
totally agree with everything I just usually see people racing the 10-12N range versus 15 and up. Obviously, torque and speed will be much higher for the 15N and up rims.
Ya they are all great honestly.
Awesome review.
I would just include 1 additional review/ points category: Regional & Stock Availability.
Fanatecs seem to be almost always on pre order/ sold out.
Cammus currently wants $120 or more to ship, which factors greatly into the total cost
That's a great idea but that would be impossible to keep up with unfortunately. :(
@@DouglasThompson no worries
yes nice vid man, for me the alpha mini is deffinetly the big winner. its awsome size and the details ar so acurate
Incredible detail, I agree. The size is something I wish more companies would replicate. Simagic has proven this size is possible, hopefully the next iterations of companies DD offerings will follow suit!
Nice roundup, short to the point and you’re thoughts. Bit quick thoughts after receiving the alpha. Anyway although these are the budget dd wheels most would buy the Fanatec. Mainly because it’s widely supported by many games. And the majority will hook it up, install drivers and start using it. Not saying you’re wrong but as long games aren’t widely adopted or you need a work around to get working Fanatec will be the number 1 goto dd wheel. Never the less good roundup and it will help certainly a lot of people.
That's true and I think I mentioned that in the comparison, Fanatec is definitely a driving force in the industry and although I recommend the Mini and Cammus over the Fanatec for the type of racing I do, it doesn't mean the winner of this comparison is the best choice for everyone. ;)
i love the aggressiveness of this
Lol
I feel like SIMAGIC win.
It's a great base for sure! Not my choice but it is an excellent option out of these three!
Subscribed and just bought cammus after watching this video.
Nice man! You will be very happy!
@@DouglasThompson yes I am !
What a no B.S. review. You’re the man Duggie.
Thank you Gavigan!
@@DouglasThompson your welcome Dumplas Thogson
@@gavancorrigan8813 Thank you Gavel!
Finally someone comparing cammus to same price range bases. So many videos people complaining about things on cammus and comparing it to simcube or other double the price bases. I was thinking to buy moza r9 but its out of stock where i live so i found about cammus and it seems pretty damn good deal even after shipping which is 160$ with airplane(10-20days) and 80$ with train(45-60days). With 5% coupon code it would be 730€ with 15nm base and decent steering wheel shipped from china to my house. If i would buy moza R9 which costs 460€ and CS wheel 360€ its already more expensive with less power. Customer service looks good too, I asked about stuff on email and got answer in 24h.
Cammus is doing 650 for 15nm base and wheel combo right now, also you can use my "doug" code for 5 percent off! ;)
They also have a 300 dollar 8nm wheelbase soon. I will be reviewing right when it comes out! Stay tuned.
The only problem for the alfa and cammus for the entry level should be the amount of force they are generating for people without a rig. So living room simracers, they don't have much of a choice.
I have the mini on a GT Omega Apex stand and it's sturdy enough to fully enjoy it.
Or you can easily just limit the power and match what csl dd has
@@dcu21 In Rurope SImagic and Cammus is really more expensive. I would go for the alfa mini for sure if I the price wasn't like 30-40% more than China/US
You can always turn it down. ;)
@@KondyoTheLightning wow...that's really too bad. I'm sorry I didn't include that in the comparison but I am speaking from a North American perspective as you know. Wouldn't the Fanatec be just as much of a price increase or is it because the Simagic and Cammus are Chinese companies affecting the price?
I really like what you’re saying about the Cammus. Could you do a future video on it that answers these questions: What games are compatible? How well does the app work? What else plugs into it? (Like a pass through USB perhaps?). How long does shipping by sea take (to save money)? and How likely is Cammus going to stick around in this industry? I’m just concerned with them being so new to the sim racing game.
I requested the game compatibility list, they are compiling it. :)
The English version of the android app is still being finalized, the iOS one is up but I don't have an iPhone or know anyone with one... :(
The handbrake, pedals and sequential plug into the rear currently.
It would most likely take a month or so by sea from my experience buying Chinese goods.
I think Cammus will stick around because they have already been around for a good while in the automotive industry, sim racing is now a permanent part of the auto industry! :)
Yo Doug . I'm still running the fanatec CSW 2.5 . Still debating whether to upgrade now or wait . Is it time yet? Is it outdated? Is this gonna be as good as it gets with DD wheel bases? Always love ur stuff Doug. Keep um. Coming! 🤷🏽♂️
I'd say you have the absolute best belt driven wheelbase on the market, stay with that till it breaks imo. DD feels better but the Fanatec belt driven bases are some of the best on the market if the torque level satisfies you still. :)
Thanks for the great comparison video. I was about to pull the trigger on the Simagic but then your video about the Cammus came out.
Just want to get your opinion, I've heard some guys saying the Cammus is running hot? What is your opinion regarding that?
Do you think that they will do any other wheels? I would love a GT wheel from them.
they are working on other wheel options and they will also be implementing a directional stick or 2 on the next wheel button box iteration. I'd like to think I have something to do with that decision. ;)
my wheelbase runs cool to the touch even at 100 percent output. the Simagic I tested actual is the only one that gets warm to the touch. even that one doesn't get hot though.
Thank you for this I enjoy these type of comparison videos. A few of your point's did seem a bit silly though. As far as looks goes that's completely opinion. My opinion is the Camus looks too big and bulky and probably would not fit as well in my cockpit.
As far as build quality and materials I'm sure they are all top notch. Just because one might sound a little different when slapping it on top like a drum...lol.
Quick release? Do you really need more than one?
As far as NMs go I see all the time reviewers praising a base with a high NM but then they only ever use 8-10 NM when they actually use them.
As for me I went with the CL dd because I wanted the options to use it on my xbox series c or ps5 (with the workaround) or PC. Right now I'm using xbox but when gpu prices drop I may upgrade my pc and switch over. Right now I'm over the moon with how amazing the CL dd feels and don't regret my choice one bit. I honestly don't see why anyone would realistically need or want more force than what it offers. If I was only on PC I might have gone with the sim magic though, I don't know.
Anyways thanks for the vid, just respectfully offering my opinions like you asked for.
You must realize nearly all of this is opinion that's why people watch my videos,they want my opinion on things. ;)
Also the slap was not what I based my points on, that was for fun lol I try to keep things fun while I give information out.
Having multiple quick release options is essential for many and although my only reason to have 4 at any one time is because I have a video series called BrokeA$$ $imra¢ing where I need to switch quickly between 3 or more setups. Check it out if you haven't already!
Either way, Im glad you got some enjoyment out of my video and I appreciate you taking the time to give feedback on the video!
I had to send my dd pro back bc it bricked on update . I will say they were pretty good with the turn around . Took only one week to get a replacement with free overnight delivery .
Did you try rolling it back or it didn't let you? Did you try to put it into manual update mode? Not sure if it would have helped but I'm curious.
@@DouglasThompson I tried everything . Every driver , bootloader , deleting reinstalling, I did it all nothing got the motor to update.
@@CaliCuh that's too bad...I'm sorry your experience was so horrible. Fanatec software isn't perfect. Its mostly good though.
@@DouglasThompson yea they handled it well . 1 week from when I sent out and had a new one not bad at all. Can’t complain .
@@CaliCuh they shipped it out before receiving the broken unit first?
Fanatec are the only one with both Xbox and playstation compatibility! That's a big reason people are steered in their direction!!
Awsome video, thanks for making me discover the cammus!
Ya man! Cammus is an exciting company!
I was always under the impression Thrustmaster was Xbox compatible as well... Strange
Yes TM and Logitech work on console, but it's nothing to compare with a DD
@@rr_reaperqc yes, I see. Well Thrustmaster has the stage set for them, they better perform when it comes time,too bad they had to delay it...
You should do a review on the Alpha U 23nM wheel base next
I'd love to, I will ask simagic I'd they would be willing to send a review unit.
They all sound pretty good. I’m really happy with my dd. Unless someone makes a major breakthrough in ffb I don’t see any reason to buy another base…..unless mine takes a dump.
you sir have the correct mindset! the best wheelbase is the one you have/ will get. :)
im loving my csl dd, i would have almost gone with the sim magic but i wanted to complete my eco system since i had the pedals handbrake and shifter already
@@SSmallwood not to take away from your excitement but be aware of what you just said.
"I wanted to complete my ecosystem because I had the pedals,handbrake and shifter already."
That's how they get you to keep on buying Fanatec stuff. ;)
Once you're in deep, you're going to have to lose some blood to get out. Lol
@@DouglasThompson absolutely, im planning on going to the BJ steel hydraulic gt pedal set next year :D
@@SSmallwood haven't seen that one, I'll check it out!
Simagic is definitely the winner atleast in europe, still about 150€ more expensive than the CSL DD but with better wheel compatibility and 150€ cheaper than the cammus
That's interesting, I'll see if I can find out why the Cammus is so much more in Europe. Thank you for sharing your experience/thoughts. :)
cammus is just 500 usd dollars. why its expensive than simagic???
@@windboosterwinsbooster5870 Shipping
@@windboosterwinsbooster5870 shipping and VAT brings the cammus base to about 750€
@@DouglasThompson in South America the base with the wheel is $698 + $300 for shipping and 23% of taxes, I almost 1200us$. The csl DD 8nm Is about $700 for the base (shipping and taxes included and $270 for universal hub with wheel that was for sale on black Friday. Now the alpha mini I found it in about $1400 after taxes with free shipping with the GTR round wheel. So I'm in a really crossroads in cancelling the csl DD order and add some extra money for the cammus or alpha mini. I'm basically a rally driver but like the details and realistic ffb and that's my concern with the cammus. What would you do in my case?
I've only used Fanatec DD1 & 2 and i couldn't justify the expense, when I first used the CSL DD I preferred it to its bigger bros, i also prefer the QR1 Lite, which eliminates the slight wobble that you get with QR1, I also have some pretty serious health issues, which limit how much torque i need (only weigh 50kgs) I've been very happy with the CSL DD 8Nm with the exception of the run out clamp, not a good design, after replacing it with a two piece two bolt version, it feels better and operates quieter with the better designed clamp. Cammus are showing up in the UK now but it's easy to get Fanatec products here. The software has been improved too, it's a good unit if 8Nm is sufficient for your needs. Id like to try out the Simagic, i can't imagine more detailed ffb than the CSL DD provides, so I'm now intrigued.... Doh! Interesting vid thanks 👍🏻
Thank you much! Cammus will be sending me the new Lp8 8nm dd wheelbase and they also have the 250 dollar 5nm with 7nm peak torque C5 dd wheelbase. ;) they have been doing great things for the simracing community
Disappointed that the Fanatec didn't compare well, but its still a great choice if you don't mind being stuck in Fanatec's ecosystem. There is a way you don't have to pay Fanatec for everything, but it is almost as expensive as Fanatec's offerings, so its not really a viable work around.
So I can't fault anything you've said about the wheelbase, Fanatec's ecosystem or its customer service issues. It's all proven to be true. Great video, sir.
They do have an amazing ecosystem but it just feels so controlling and that's what I don't like about it. As we both agree it is still a great option for PC and currently the best option for console.
So, how we supposed to operate those buttons while driving with this CAMMUS base ? I mean without cutting off fingers if possible ?
Lol you'd be surprised how easy it is. I mostly use the right momentary switch but you can reach around.
Would you recommend the cammus for drifting. I'm learning to drift on the sim while building my IRL car, then I will using it to build on what i learn with the car? From tgis video it sounds like from what you say I could tune it to feel like my real car. Granted I havent built it yet, but once i have I could, if I understand you correctly. Currently the cammus ddwb bundle with the lc100 pedals is the most cost effective in the uk from what i can see. Since having an IRL drift lesson i see the benefits of the sim. It really helped me by having something to build of the. Something to go home and practice what I learned, but I do now see the limitations of my thrustmaster especially the pedals
I have many irl drifting friends that say it can feel just like their cars with some ffb tuning. I don't drift myself but most of my friends that bought Cammus bases do.
If you end up wanting the lc100 pedals, please watch my video showing how to get the most out of them! czcams.com/video/wNoc-g0kXgM/video.html
From your experience, how do you compare csl dd with interpolation filter at max vs cammus in terms of detail? are they equal? i ask this because i have tested csl dd and i like it the most with interpolation filer set to max... Thank you in advice for your answer! 🙏 u are helping a lot of peoples with those reviews! ♥️🔥
No, if you turn interpolation filter off to a completely raw signal the Fanatec CSL DD provides more detail.
@@DouglasThompson yes, i now this! but if u put it to max (at 20 i think), how is it compared to Cammus?
Ahhh I see...well I would say the Cammus would feel similar or slightly better.
@Douglas Thompson that is nice! 🔥😁 Thank you! 🙏
Hey, Doug!
Planning to switch from g29 to either simagic alpha mini or csl dd. I really like everything the alpha base brings to the table as far as detail, price, power and qr.On the con side of things I'm really not sold on the ecosystem. Also, I dont really like the look of simagic wheels and they seem too expensive (I intend to buy 2 wheels), you could buy an off-brand wheel from ebay, but you lose the paddels. I need pedals as well... A full Fanatec build costs around 1000 Eur (CSL DD 8nm+Wrc wheel+pedals with lc and metal QR). Would u offer some advice?
Keep in mind Fanatec is compatible with more games as well if you play a huge list of racing games. Most of the big titles are supported of course.
@@DouglasThompson Mostly rally games as I love Dirt, but ACC, F1 and might venture into iRacing at some point. How would you compare simagic wheels to fanatec ones, are they worth the price premium?
If you do rally, the Cammus or Fanatec will serve you well. The Simagic is probably the best feeling for the power range it sits in but it's just held back by the wheel mounting options honestly...
@@DouglasThompson Can't you just use their optional QR, or any other NRG type QR for all wheels?
I love you man, when it comes to reviews it just feels like you actually mean everything you say and it hasn't been pushed by those companies for you to say that and that. On the other hand I feel like you have a biased inclination to Cammus, but maybe that's just me (I say that because for example, you said cammus has buttons on the wheel and its and advantage, well for me that's not an advantage because you wouldn't be able to reach behind the wheel while driving or you rated it 2nd on looks, let's be honest the fanatec is smaller and more compact, cammus looks like a big box but of course those are personal prefferences). The review is still great and loving this type of content on your channel.
I can see your point.
I look at it like this
If you drift or play rally, you don't need paddle shifters or a button box on your wheel, you can still use the buttons on the base to navigate game menus without having to get your keyboard or mouse.
This is especially important in VR to have something hard mounted so your hand always know where to go as it's very annoying to take a headset off just to find a certain key on a keyboard. ;)
I have also successfully used the wheelbase buttons in game as well, even a simple function like "ignition" in beamng feels cool to use the wheelbase buttons for.
Keep in mind this is my personal experience with the units and I also don't race much outside of rally so my perspective is geared that way. :)
Thank you for the comment!
@@DouglasThompson To be fair. I can see the good side of it as well. Like you can even get a wheel with no electronics, just the cammus base and attach it to that and just use the base buttons.
I see what they aiming for. They're trying to give the fairest offer.
"when it comes to reviews it just feels like you actually mean everything you say"... Take my word for it, he does mean everything he says... He's into it 100%!
@@richardthompson7611 Thank you! :)
@@laur.an01 :)
Hey! Nice video, could you answer me two question. 1) is the cammus compatible with f1 21? 2) you said that small details are hard to feel on the cammus, what actually can't be felt with the cammus wheelbase?
I call it "noise" almost like static on a TV but through your hands. That is harder to feel, the ffb feels more rounded (in a pleasant way).
Also, I'm not sure about that game but I think it is. I have requested Cammus compile a "compatible games" list for the website. They are working on it. :)
@@DouglasThompson thank you For the quick reply, i'm planning to upgrade from a csw v2.5 to a direct drive wheel and this looks promising only issue that i have with it that there are no costumer reviews on it which would help with the decision.
Ask me anything :)
Just curious, would you be able to hook up a fanatec clubsport or any other shifter to the base. Considering buying one myself
I tried, it didnt work, it fit though
Hey Doug, posted on one of your other videos, but just updating that I finally received my CSL DD and Clubsport V3's. I went ahead and put the curved/raised faces on, black spring on clutch and throttle, red/green on the brake pedal, and damper on the throttle. Order my stuff in September, only just arrived about a month ago LOL the industry I work in is the same so I understand. Now I'm just waiting on the updated Trak Racer Fanatec DD mount. What forums do you recommend as good resource/community?
You looking for setup suggestions? Ffb and such?
@@DouglasThompson not necessarily, but would probably be appreciated. Just wanted to know a good community forum to ask questions and for suggestions when I need them. I probably won't have my rig running for a few more weeks so don't really need setup suggestions just yet.
@@dingusmagee3326 I'm sure there are some forums on Reddit. Fanatec has a forum as well but Fanatec themselves rarely comment or help people. You can always post on here and I will do my best to help you. ;)
@@DouglasThompson cool cool. In regards to setting the pedal height, would you recommend it be even with the bottom of my seat?
This is dependent on the type of racing you do most and your own personal preference. I like mine similar to my real car. Perhaps just measure your daily driver and have that be a starting point?
So what is best for GT3 racing? I dont want to dump more then 1000$ on pedals base and GT3 type of wheel. Any suggestions? Really nice comparison video.
If you're looking at a full set Ruoveden, wheel/base, pedals, etc. Prepare to pay around 1k.
@@DouglasThompson uh. any suggestion on the base pedals and wheel?
@user-bp9oj5ly1k any direct drive wheelbase within your chosen budget will be able to handle gt3 style racing. The fanatec bundle will be fine for you, the cammus 15nm bundle with lc100 pedals will be the best bang for your buck. Moza also makes a nice entry level bundle but pedal-wise, you won't find better than what cammus offers for the money and that will do more for your driving than a wheelbase because they are all capable of high fidelity ffb.
Do you think high power could help build arm back streanth I understand people seem to be saying the lower power newer DD have more detail sharpness but I'm more interested in running unrealistic power and using it like yoga or gym slowly turning it up maybe I have a mid back non degrading back issue do you think sorta area between arm and spine could get stronger with it it's only on one side so I could be gentle on it obviously will ask a doctor and personal trainer advice also so please don't worry have a great day
let me answer you by saying this.
I got into sim racing to recover my left shoulder after surgery so I could know when ai could safely drive my car again. ;)
I always tought i wanted the csl dd.(driving logicrap g923 now) but after many revieuws i think the 10nm simmagic is better. I like the eco system fanatec has so many wheels and such. But even the spare amount of wheels simmagic has are waaay better quality than 90 procent of fanatec wheels. The cammus sounds afwesome with the 15nm but i think i prefer more detail over more nm. But as i am just starting simracing its al to find out
Can't go wrong with any of them but if detail is what you're after, you will find it with the simagic. :)
Maybe you can comment. I was thinking of combining the Cammus with the XF1 Sport. But their website does not mention Cammus for compatibility. What QR do I need for it to work?
What is the xf1 sport?
Which one can I drift easier with? Moza simagic t300
Not sure, I'm sure anything dd above 5nm will serve you well though.
@@DouglasThompson thanx
Do you think you'd be able to suggest to Cammus that they sell their QR/button box as a standalone hub without a rim for people who want to BYOR?
Already have, it's on the table. I'm not sure if/when its going to be available but I have told them they should offer the button box as a standalone device for like 100 dollars or something.
@@DouglasThompson You're doing God's work my man!
:)
Cammus is way too big and for me and the buttons are in the wrong place. But it is always good to see more competition.
Oh yes indeed, Cammus now has the smallest 12nm wheelbase on the market though. ;)
Hey bud. Great vids. Do you know if their pedals are shipping?
I'm pretty sure they have stock. They are working on the revised model. Not sure if they sold out of V1's yet.
Subbed. Thanks!!
@@davenazemoto9788 Thank you!!! also, I will be reviewing the V2's as soon as they are ready. ;) along with the hall effect sensor sequential and load cell handbrake!
I'm assuming all 3 are compatible with the card board wheel. Right?
Correct. Its one of the best features!
I have reached out to CAMMUS to inquire about purchasing their product.
Nice! Make sure and mention my name and you will get money off if you decide to go for it. ;)
Hi, I receive my DD snub on February 15 and with hindsight what do you think of it?
What is the DD snub?
Cammus is not 500, when you have a tag of $200 for shipping plus you also have to pay them paypal fees too on top of it
Shipping is really a problem it's heavy and international shipping is not cheap...they are working on a solution for this though. :)
I was thinking the same, when considering the prices the shipping costs should be mentioned for all bases..
@@favs970 the thing is, depending on where you are in the world the prices are different. Fanatec actually refuses to ship to some parts of the world and I don't know how much Simagic is in Europe and such. It adds a layer of complexity that is confusing to the viewer so that's why I didn't factor that in. :;)
Hows the cammus on iracing if u play it i seen in another review the alpha mini referred to as notchy in the middle . Great review tho subbed!
Hey man, unfortunately I don't play Iracing mostly due to my disapproval of their subscription model. My apologies I can't help you with your question but I refuse to back a game that is set up this way. I hope you understand. :)
@@DouglasThompson nah I totally get it I'm super iffy on it myself still thanks for the fast reply 🍻
@@deathofthe-ego8454 ya man
Make videoLook inside cammus wheel base
Perhaps in the future. ;)
Now try with the clusport dd and dd+ lol. Big difference and more equal to a comparison. Tbh after using these idk i cant put cammus higher for ffb detail but the forces of course will not be more on the simagic and cammus. Since its only 5-8nm.
But the dd and dd+ the new ones are so so good. Its smashing my 15nm simagic and it reminds me of the simucube sport with even faster ffb. 6.2nm/ms compsred to 4.2nm/ms from the pro and sport simucube. The ultimate is 9nm/ms but testing has shown around 6.3nm/ms also. The jump fanatec has made with the new clubsport dd and dd+ is pretty damn incredible.
Definitely would love too but this is more based on price. :) this was also when the csl dd was more expensive.
What pedals does the cammus support for example can I use thrustmaster pedals on the cammus or does it only support their own pedals
If you are speaking of connecting pedals straight to the wheelbase, yes only Cammus pedals will work.
what wheel size pattern do i need to bolt directly to the alpha mini without adapter?
50mm
I have a T300 steering wheel, I drift easily. I wonder if I would drift easier or harder if I bought this product?
All products will allow you to drift, there are profiles from each company.
So do the simagic wheels fit, power and communicate with the cammus wheelbase? Looks like similar connections...
No they don't, I tried. Well they fit, yes but the buttons don't work.
@@DouglasThompson OK, good to know. Thanks for the feedback man, keep up the good work!
Thank you much! Will have some new gear to review in the coming weeks! ;)
Are we going to see the Moza R9 vs Simagic Alpha Mini?
I reached out to maza but they haven't responded more than the initial time but that was months ago. If you want me to review it and compare it against the wheelbases that I own and have owned write them an email please. :)
I really like the Cammus price and features (buttons in particular), but it seems too big for my liking, so I´m kind of on the fence about it, the Simagic or the Moza R9.
Send me a pic of your setup and I'll let you know if it would work for you. Keep in mind the reason I didn't like the size was because I run full motion otherwise it doesn't matter, you can simply mount it further back and you won't notice the size at all. ;)
demureg@gmail.com
@@DouglasThompson I use a GT Omega Classic Wheel Stand that I slip into my gaming desk when I use it, it´s not the sturdiest of stands, and mounting real state isn´t really generous, I know a Moza R9 would fit in the predrilled holes and is low profiled enough that I can keep fitting it in my current space.
It´s not very fancy, and not knowing the mounting bolt patter of the Cammus (I can´t find it anywhere online), makes me doubt If it would be possible to add it on my setup.
But damn, I love NRG QR´s.
I can do my best to measure it for you please remind me later if you would. I'll try to remember
I can do my best to measure it for you please remind me later if you would. I'll try to remember
How does the small FFB details from the belt driven CSL Elite compare to the Cammus? As Cam has the worst score in the small FFB department and I never touched a direct drive system.
Much better than a belt driven system.
@@DouglasThompson thank you!
Would it be possible to mount the Simagic Alpha mini on a normal PC desk, as the Fanatec CSL DD?
With a drill yes
What platforms do they all work on? I understand fanatec is PC Xbox and Playstation but what of the other 2
Only pc
Hi there! Do you know if the simagic quick release fits well on the Cammus wheel base without modification? Thanks!
No, it doesn't actually, I thought it did, but there is a difference
@@DouglasThompson thank you!
Simagic and cammus really need to step up into the console market
that would be amazing but I think Fanatec has that locked down tight.
That's a pretty expensive drum set you've got there. The tuning is surprisingly good though.
Lol I play in drop D.
Or drop DD if you want to get specific. ;)
The cammus looks like a mini welder lol
You get a subscribe for being a Subaru guy!
Thank you! I have quite a few vids of my outings in my WRX's if you are interested! Also going out tomorrow to grab some new footage. ;)
@@DouglasThompson I'm always down for Subaru content. I work at IAG so it's kind of my life.
@@DeweyWRX Nice! we got some cool footage yesterday actually, Ill try to get it done tonight if possible.
How do you buy cammus? Lol I can't figure out their website
windbooster.com or the new cammus.com site use "doug" for a discount ;)
To summarize - FINAL SCORE:
#1 - CAMMUS: 334,060 points
#2 - ALPHA MINI: 289,654 points
#3 - CSL DD: 27 points
😃😁 😂
Lol
You forgot to add up the points in the description.
Whoops I'll do that now.
Any way of getting one of those Cammus bundles from a US dealer? I'm really interested in picking one those up, but that $200 dollar shipping is brutal.
I am the US dealer now...lol
@@DouglasThompson Oh cool! Where can I go to purchase it?
@@Shake_nBake805 email me at demureg@gmail.com
Yeah this is making me regret getting a CSL DD. I could've got an early bird Alpha Mini + GT1-R for the same price as CSL DD + Boost kit + WRC wheel, but my dumbass decided not to. The CSL DD isn't _bad,_ it just isn't very impressive either. Not enough torque, notchy motor, pathetic end stop, terrible QR, loads of driver issues, and oscillation. It's a step up over my old T500RS for sure, but not as much as I expected.
I didn't feel my unit was notchy, do you mean when the unit was off or while in game?
@@DouglasThompson It's notchy all the time, regardless of what I'm doing or if it's off
@@willwastaken That's crazy...I'm sorry you are experiencing that. Mine felt smooth to me, moreso than the DD1. The Cammus feels smoother than both and the alpha mini felt pretty smooth as well.
@@DouglasThompson I'm not really sure what I should do at the moment. Part of me wants to just get rid of it immediately, but I don't think I'll do that since I just got it. I'll probably end up keeping it for the duration of the warranty and then consider upgrading again. What do you think?
If you want to sell it, now is the time to maximize the amount you will get back. With all the preorder bull you might even make a profit...
I usually use eBay and start a bid at 99 cents no reserve that way I don't feel I'm taking advantage, sometimes I come out ahead most times I lose money but either way I don't feel bad for price gouging because what someone bids is what they feel it's worth. That's how I look at things at least.
To ease your mind, if you haven't experienced other DD wheelbases, you won't notice that much difference. There are better values out there but one thing Fanatec really has going for them is game support. It's unmatched from my experience, there hasn't been a single game I've heard about or played that didn't work with my Fanatec gear....well except dirt rally 1 on console, the podium DD1 ps version is not compatible with that game, only on console though...and the CSL elite is compatible with that game on console... really strange.
When I brought that to their attention, the shrugged it off...I was a bit upset with how they handled that but at the end of the day, it's the main reason I decided to finally build a PC and have no limits as to what I can use or play Sim-racing wise. ;)
The CSL is the best value when you factor in pedals in the bundles....
Is it? ;)
How much is a third pedal for the CSL pedals?
Cammus still wins. You get way more for your money.
@@DouglasThompson Yeah im not opposed to the Cammus in any way, was just trying to factor in pedal costs, but for 15nm which is double the csl dd i get your point....
What I meant was if you add the clutch pedal to the equation you are looking at spending about 100 dollars more for a much beefier pedal set plus you can mount any wheel you want to the Cammus. In order to get that same function with Fanatec you have to buy a separate hub that allows you to do that. If you are on console, or you are deep in Fanatecs ecosystem are the main reasons to buy Fanatec gear. And the game compatibility of course. Fanatec makes good stuff no lie but the pricing can hurt sometimes.