The Rings of Power Season Finale: My Thoughts
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- čas přidán 16. 10. 2022
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"There are no moral absolutes!" They insist absolutely.
"Only Sith deal in absolutes!"
"But Obi'wan you just used an absolute. What does that make you?"
@@joelt2002 Technically speaking, Obi-Wan did not use an absolute but the meme is fun anyway.
@@superprontocritico Acknowledging the existence of moral absolutes was something a true-blue Jedi should not have been able to do, much less contemplate. It was probably the error of whoever wrote Obi-Wan's dialogue and Obi-Wan himself. An unintentional fourth-wall break.
This is basically "two wolves are fighting inside you, the one you feed wins." Followed by "which one is the right wolf to feed? How will I know" and the answer is "sometimes you have to feed the wrong wolf."
"There are lights in the sky and lights in the water... which do you follow?" Mate, even Gollum knows not to follow the lights in the water.
Well, if you don't know wich wolf is which, you eventually feed the wrong one, and then you learn from this mistake. In that sense that worked. No one is free from evil done in a moment of weakness and ignorance, no matter how prepared.
@@benjaminthibieroz4155
Each wolf is always described as a good wolf and a bad wolf (descriptors vary depending on the version being told, but it's always a good thing versus a bad thing). There are no obfuscations here. It's a cautionary tale about internal struggle and how you deal with it.
Careful now, or hobbits go down to join the Dead Ones, and light little candles of their own.
@@benjaminthibieroz4155 a pretty deadly mistake since if you feed the wrong one, it will kill the right one.
@@ohifonlyx33
No doubt. The guy drew an odd conclusion from your analogy. Nobody learns what wrong is by doing wrong. It's just not apparent that way. We have to be taught, preferably by responsible people. Children cannot be told, "You have to be bad to know what it is," otherwise, they'll get into all kinds of trouble. J.R.R. Tolkien addressed the line between good and evil. What Amazon is doing is irresponsible.
“The rings of power can’t be that bad”
“You have not seen what I have seen”
“I have seen my share”
“You have not seen what I have seen”
🤣
There is a tempest in me! Indeed, the tempest must have crowded out any accumulated wisdom.
Critical Drinker: "I've seen She-Hulk"
@@deanzaZZR when she first said "there is a tempest in me" my immediate thought was "I got some Gas-X if you need it"
I've giveth the meat, giveth me raw
It's amazing how the poor quality of this show has brought so many people together to talk about it. I love it :D
The last 8 weeks have been an excellent education on the working process of the culture wars, storytelling, Tolkien, and ethics/morals. I only watched one episode but I’ve gotten so much from it.
I will probably watch the remaining eps (watched only 2 and 1/2 then fell asleep)..
Lore aside it seems to not have much to tell. Characters seem shallow and the moral compass seems very different from classic Fantasy. Plus I predicted correctly who were going to be the 2 misteriou characters since the beginning...
Last Alliance of Fascist-Adjacent and Incels if you believe the corporate media.
It's the show you love to hate.
It’s what the show runners wanted. Lol
Gandalf: YOU SHALL…
Bezos: Here’s a billion dollars.
Gandalf: …pass.
POV: nerd of the rings
@Tech Priest No... He was offered the ULTIMATE price, the One Ring. With both Narya and the One Ring on his hand, and direct access to Vilya and Nenya, he would have been all powerful on Middle Earth. Only the combined forces of the Valar could have stopped him.
...and he refused...
So did Galadriel when the same was offered to her.
@@meleardil you mean the real Galadriel not this snippet
@@scambammer6102 Snippet? You mean strumpet? 😀
That's a good one!
"I'm good, "-Discount Gandalf...
Wow, truly worthy of Tolkien
"Sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness" = "That bad boy phase wasn't your fault. It was just a learning experience."
GuyLadriel is the most evil person in the series, well, Guyladriel and the hobbitses, sorry, Harfoots.
I thought that line from 'Finrod' was a bit creepy... Felt more like, Come touch my darkness, sister.
They're using my TWO MOST HATED methods of writing.
They're attempting to create ARTIFICIAL DRAMA by having characters refuse or just fail to share IMPORTANT information with each other. And what Dave points out, which is providing the AUDIENCE with critical information, and then allowing us to 'enjoy?' watching while a character SLOWLY makes the discovery of something that we're SO SMART to already know about!...
It's like every horror movie where someone sees or hears something completely unexplainable or supernatural.
Which would cause them to behave in a unorthodox way out of fear.
And when someone asks what's wrong, they don't explain at all. Leading other characters to just think they are stupid or crazy
Well it's called dramatic irony, when we know what the character doesn't. Prime example done well is Columbo. This is done piss poor because the characters seem dumb like you clearly explained. 🙂
the story is relaying the plot hole to make any sense (plot hole be little more than script typo, that some how made it the finish screen, got the basis the hole plot of the film show or what ever?
Good rant. It reminds me of late Game of Thrones, particularly the Battle of the Bastards.
If Sansa had told Jon the knights of the vale were on their way, he would have completely altered his strategy to one of buying time, instead of fighting desperately and getting 95% of his men killed.
in defense of chacters not sharing info (not a defense of ROP) some true events that create dramatic moments are due to just that.
It is why in Western Militaries the concept that NEVER ASSUME higher comannd knows what you know and that passing information raipdly is the the goal . And why in some militaries a cmmanders personal power is based on how much infromation you control.
Had Halsey been more clear that HE and all of TF 34 were moving north Kinkiad might have sent a ship as a look out off of Samar. This is not as wilfull as some examples but due to the lack of communication between Kinkaid and Halsey we have the most dramatic surface actions of WW2
As an aside the issues between Halsey and Kinkaid are often put on Halsey alone this is I think unfair as Kinkaid made little effrot to secure the north thinking that TF34 was not going to move. Given the very slow communication between 3rd Fleet and 7th fleet it would have been prudent to send at least 1 destroyer to to monitory the straight off Samar.
“You have… elected…. the way of PAIN!”
- Christopher Lee, most definitely
My favorite part was when Sauron said "And here we go..." before forging the One ring.
"IT'S SAURON TIME!"
proving Boromir wrong by "walking into Mordor was mine"
Liked it best when Galadriel said (as the volcano erupted): “I felt a great disturbance in the Force...as if tens of voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.”
I suppose 'Looking on the bright side' * it might - just possibly might, 'at a pinch', have been even worse:
I mean - think about it! - Sauron COULD always have said as he was reaching for his hammer:
"'Ere we go! 'Ere we go! 'Ere we go!
Still, perhaps I shouldn't give them any ideas!
After all: there's always the possibiity of a 're-make' of The Rings of Power' to consider! **
*A phrase which will probably wind up as the epitaph chiselled on my headstone!
** Mind you, given Dave's cartoon figure's expressions of alarm, bewilderment, horror and stomach-churning disgust he used to illustrate his critiques of the cringe-inspiringly 'Woke' drivel which constituted the storylines of the Rings of Power series, I suspect that he might need to preface his reviews of any such future re-makes with an X-Rating on the grounds that viewing such cinematographic garbage would be likely to cause serious and potentially life-changing and permanent damage to the stomachs and sensibilities of even the most case-hardened viewers of the original series!***
*** A bit like the effect of the CV-19 'Tea', but adminstered visually through the medium of film celluloid!
yawn
The ending when you said there are plans for five seasons of this show. I literally almost started crying... 😭😥
I don't understand how they can do 5 seasons when they've condensed so much into a short space of time, the forging of the rings should have taken half a season alone. And with so many Last Alliance characters being introduced now 1500 years before they are born they have to wrap everything up more quicky.
i Just hope people who dont like it stop watching it and maybe they will cancel it otherwise i dont think they will understand that this was a failure. They still say in their interviews that this was a success and only a few trolls dislike it. I checked imdb and there seems 2 be many fake positive reviews aswell, many 10s and 9s...total nutcases if u read thru.. Maybe the 2 writers giving reviews 2 themselves xD
@@haxelhoff4809 In order to actually hit Amazon monetarily we need to stop buying products for them and cancel our memberships. Otherwise even if we don't watch RoP their wallets won't be affected.
@@TheHacknor Look, just suspend disbelief, already! (together with your natural feelings of revulsion and horror at the prospect of having to undergo a full 'frontal lobotomy' in the name of 'Cinematographic Art' - which will be a pre-requisite for any possibility - however remote and fantastical -of your escaping a total meltdown of your brain which must inevitably result from watching even one more series of such televisual festering hog slurry as 'The Rings of Power' !
Oh my.... 5 of them.... It's like visiting a dentist....
The more corporate is involved in the creative process of running a franchise, the more misery it brings.
This philosophy first started with the Disney purchase of SW back in 2012.
I kept thinking of Disney Star Wars, and the way they parasitize better stories by “expanding the lore” with prequel series.
“You know Ob-Wan Kenobi, and you know how the Obi-Wan Kenobi story ends, but do you know… _WHAT OBI-WAN KENOBI ATE FOR BREAKFAST???_
No, I don’t gain anything from a less-interesting middle chapter that functionally cannot have any consequence for the outcome of the saga, and it can only serve to demystify part of what made the world so captivating in the first place.
@@DeflatingAtheism expand Ming the lore by deleting that lore from active publications?
Sounds hypocritical to me
Note: Sauron would have NEVER turned himself into a human. He held nothing but contempt for Man. To seduce the elven smiths, he turned himself into Anatar, the Gift-Giver, a handsome, charismatic Maiar of Aule who spoke honeyed words. Sauron hated the elves too, but at least held some respect for them.
Galadriel never trusted Anatar, by the way.
EDIT: updated; he didn't turn himself into an elf either.
They are ripping the lore to shreds to tell their own shitty story
To be fair, Amazon does not have rights for Annatar. What they've done with Halbrand-Sauron isn't really bad.
@@J_Warral it's fg ghastly are you serious?
@@J_Warral if you don't have the rights for the Tolkien's books covering the Second age, then you don't do a show about the Second age. it's not like the doctor prescribed Amazon to make this God awful "adaptation" of Tolkien
@@J_Warral you cannot tamper mythology. Tolkien's work is mythology. It is unchanged. If you don't get it then gtfo
I wouldn't say that no one wanted a screen adaptation of the 2nd age. I wanted that. I was cautiously optimistic about this show when it was first announced. Seeing the fall of Numenor fleshed out and brought to the tv screen would have been awesome. The instant they started advertising I lost all hope for a good show let alone a faithful adaptation.
I honestly never believed that Amazon could do the books justice. In part because the Second Age isn't a single, contained story like LOTR or The Hobbit. That alone makes things difficult. Then, when I learned they didn't have the rights to the relevant parts of the Silmarillion or Unfinished Tales I knew we were in for trouble of one kind or another because you can't really tell that story without those texts.
@@pittland44 I never thought it would be easy to do, just hoping someone who had the talent and cared about the lore was put in charge. Didn't look into the details of the showrunners and production until they started advertising, then when I did look into it I saw nothing to give confidence.
@@Phillibetrus The thing that made me realize it wasn't going to work was, as odd as this will sound, when they announced we would see Durin III and Durin IV together at the same time. Which, according to Tolkien's lore, wouldn't happen. Like, ever.
@@pittland44 That was just one of a hundred red flags.
I love the scene with Gandalf and the girl Hobbit at the end. It's very Christian. I would watch a series about them confronting the ringwraiths and Sauron in the East.
RoP doesn't look good. It's overly soap opera like for me. But people are overlooking Galadriel is a sinner who believes she is good. One of the showrunners is a Mormon. The other must be Christian. They must work within the commands of ESG. The series is very clean and old fashioned. It feels like an old BBC series, and at least, it's better than the junk from Disney
So Guyladriel is to blame for Sauron going all rejected incel demonic psycho Chad. Wow, such courage and bravery. Left me in tears of joy clapping hurray at the screen.
*so if Sauron had been given more group hugs and allowed to open up and talk about his true feelings about being rejected by others and how much that hurt him the war of the ring might never had happened and the proceeding ages would have unfolded far differently than what actually took place...thanks a lot Guyladriel for ruining property values all over Middle earth*
@@scottmantooth8785 exactly. all she had to do was go on just one date with him. Gosh!
@@danielread4490 hey guys, getting friend zoned can turn any guy to a Sauron LOL
‘From the writers of The Last Jedi…
And scenes that would not be out of place in She-Hulk…
Comes an all new 25% different adaptation.
The Rings of Power. Buy it you peasants! Lord Bezos commands it!’
Jeff Joseph Abrams endorses this message.
Takes an incel to know one I'd guess.
Dave, you are spot-on with your observations of how the current generation of writers depict Good vs Evil. They just don't understand it which is why they don't understand Tolkien. You have wisdom. So glad you got 'God-pilled' a few years ago! Keep it up!
Sauron was Annatar "bringer of gifts" and the idea that evil must be "touched" goes a long way back, in fact one of the most quoted (and misqouted) Philosophers of the 19th century Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." Thogh that was a warning.
*to quote from Sir Terry Pratchett..."when you look into the abyss, it's not supposed to wave back at you"*
Thats what happened to Saruman
"He who slay the dragon will become the dragon." I like this one as well ;-)
Well, taking good notes of romantic writers, philosophers and clergymen about the nature of evil, its many forms, would have been necessary to portray Anatar and possibly other forms. But it would have required competence, talent and involvement. Things that all this corporate world despises...
@@klug5916 I disagree that the corprate world dispises. Jacksons LotR was a coparte production. That the moden left are scolds and the writers of RoP were and are not up to the task and unwilling to NOT make it a fanfic of the lowest type .. that I will agree with.
@@Bidimus1 Well, the LotR trilogy was some kind of anomaly. It's actually a miracle that it was validated by a producer. Then, with Weta Workshop involved (company founded by P. Jackson) and all the team he began making movies, the corporate part wasn't that much present.
I know quite a lot as its history is super interesting and brings a lot of knowledge.
Here, the situation is not the same, even at its core. It wasn't a total fan with a crazy project successing getting the funds, it was the big corpo machine trying to milk a product of the pop culture, with the woke influence because why not adding bad thing to a bad beginning.
At this point, I'll accept an anime adaptation of Tolkien's work over Amazon's "fitting tribute to Tolkien's legacy".
Well you won't have to wait long, an anime show about the birth of the Rohirrim is underway.
A hentai version would have had more art and value in it...
I've actually thought that an animated version of the Silmarillion could be really cool.
@@meleardil 😂😂😂
Ah! The relative joys of post-modernism where even Tolkien is peeled like an onion until nothing is left.
Thanks, Dave for putting your finger on the sore spot.
and we know what is the result of peeling an oinon...... tears, many tears.
Thank you Dave for mentioning the importance of Objective Morality.
I just had a horrible realization. Galadriel isn’t going to warn the people of the Southlands who Halbrand truly is. She’s going to hide the information from everyone.
You'd think the people of the Southlands would have known there hadn't been a king for over 1000 years.
Heck... you'd think that would have been common knowledge throughout Middle Earth but Galadriel needed Mr. Spock to dig up some scroll to figure it out.
@@nolster1 well the elves certainly knew because they have been patrolling that area from the tower. So galadriel must be fg retarded.
@@scambammer6102 They were patrolling that area... with their keen vision...
...but COMPLETELY MISSED a thousand orcs digging a huge trench and burning the forest around it.
This is another feeble attempt of this show trying to copy an idea from LOTR. Aragorn Halbrand.
@@nolster1 the people of the Southland's are like 30 extras Amazon could be arsed to hire. The scale of this show is fucked. The comparison is tired but there were more people present at the funeral of laena on house of dragons then there was at the conflict in the Southland's on rings of power.
It's an absolute farce
"He needs Elvis healing. That means they have to go see Arwen's dad who is Steven Tyler" A quote from the writer's room.
That guy with the missing limbs... I'm sure he'll be fine.
That other guy with the 3rd degree burns all over his body... I'm sure he'll pull through.
That lady with the critical head wound from being hit with a boulder... I'm sure she'll recover shortly.
But I just glanced at Halbrand's bloody shirt and determined he needs Elvis healing, STAT!
Let's hop on our horses, without any supplies or provisions and ride 1200 miles in 6 days to get it! (Apparently "elvish healing" just means getting a sponge bath from a few people wearing hooded robes).
This all meant... OMG! We only have one episode left to get some actual rings into the Rings of Power... we need to teleport to Celebrimbor so we can whip some up in about 15 minutes!
@@nolster1 "Elves don't need medicine" Arondel Ep 2
What's funny is that Galadriel asks Celebrimbor to heal Halbrand/Sauron but passes by Elrond who in canon was a great healer! He was "master of healing", Aragorn in book talks about how out of all the Peredhil, the half-elven Elrond has the greatest power for healing!
"'Here I must put forth all such power and skill as is given to me,' he said. 'Would that Elrond were here, for he is the eldest of all our race, and has the greater power.'"
(not to mention that Elendil would probably have the gift of healing and Aragorn inherited that, as "hands of the king are the hands of a healer" :) even if Elendil's line are not king yet)
Then there are writings such as this:
"There are indeed some differences between the natural inclinations of neri and nissi, and other differences that have been established by custom (varying in place and in time, and in the several races of the Eldar). For instance, the arts of healing, and all that touches on the care of the body, are among all the Eldar most practised by the nissi; whereas it was the elven-men who bore arms at need. And the Eldar deemed that the dealing of death, even when lawful or under necessity, diminished the power of healing, and that the virtue of the nissi in this matter was due rather to their abstaining from hunting or war than to any special power that went with their womanhood. Indeed in dire straits or desperate defence, the nissi fought valiantly, and there was less difference in strength and speed between elven-men and elven-women that had not borne child than is seen among mortals. On the other hand many elven-men were great healers and skilled in the lore of living bodies, though such men abstained from hunting, and went not to war until the last need." (Of the Laws and Customs Among the Eldar, Morgoth's Ring)
:)
"'How do the side and shoulder feel now?'
'I don't know.' Frodo answered. 'They don't feel at all: which is an improvement, but'-he made an effort-'I can move my arm again a little. Yes, it is coming back to life. It is not cold,' he added, touching his left hand with his right.
'Good!' said Gandalf. 'It is mending fast. You will soon be sound again. Elrond has cured you: he has tended you for days, ever since you were brought in.'
'Days?' said Frodo.
'Well, four nights and three days, to be exact. [...] Elrond is a master of healing, but the weapons of our Enemy are deadly. To tell you the truth, I had very little hope; for I suspected that there was some fragment of the blade still in the closed wound. But it could not be found until last night. Then Elrond removed a splinter. It was deeply buried, and it was working inwards.'
Frodo shuddered, remembering the cruel knife with notched blade that had vanished in Strider's hands. 'Don't be alarmed!' said Gandalf. 'It is gone now. It has been melted.'"
They kind of forgot that Elrond is healer?! This is getting worse than Dumb and dumber's last seasons of GoT ahaha :). Also Frodo needed elvish medicine because his wound was enchanted, needed more 'magical' solution (it was way way less serious wound on the left shoulder but what Halbrand has is serious deep and infected wound in the abdomen so for ordinary mortal something like that could be fatal, one can also say that travel on horseback would not be beneficial and even immortal elves would have to surprised how he managed to survive so long! Showing that he is not that ordinary to begin with :).
I completely agree: I do not want a Sauron origin story; it de-mystifies evil.
I just want some grown up dialogue and a plot that makes sense.
Not necessarily. All the work on the Silmarillon is putting evil in its forms into a myth. Morgoth, then Sauron, just to indicate the big bad rebel angels are fascinating. Having him well portrayed as Anatar and probably other forms, to corrupt the powerful kingdoms of men, tempt the elves and dwarves would have been great. Not to take off anything from evil, but to show its many forms and appearances.
But it would have need talent, passion, knowledge and dedication to put Sauron in this way in an interesting show...
@@klug5916 Yes, talent... passion... knowledge.... and no corporate deadline or message/agenda.
@@GravityBoy72 Finding such people in the show business seems mission impossible these days.
@@klug5916 well there is a difference of telling about a story/it's outline and actually portraying it.
But to be fair actually there is no origin story anyway Sauron originated much earlier. So that they are trying to make this an origin story is stupid anyway
Sometimes you need to murder someone to know it's bad. ~ Bilbo Baggins , Rings of Power
"But sometimes the lights shine just as brightly reflected in the water as they do in the sky, it's hard to say which way is up, and which way is down... How am I to know which lights to follow?"
"The lights in the water tremble, moved by the currents and waves. Sometimes they look tempting, inviting you to follow them into the depths. But in your heart, you know they are not real, for even the lightest breeze disturb their shape. The lights in the sky are immovable, constant reminders that no matter the storm creeping in the horizon, no matter the turbulent whirlwind around us or the tempest inside our hearts, they will still shine, as bright as ever, lighting and guiding the way forward."
Your analysis on modern culture and it’s lack of positive role models and absolute values, as well as the spread of relativistic POV is spot on. Couldn’t have said it better myself!
You’ve done a great work.
I believed in moral absolutism until I reached the age of 5, basically right when I was introduced to science.
We had the ultimate role model in Yahshua Christ. But Babylonian Hollywood, literature, false prophets in the church, etc has turned too many people away from Christ
To be a little fair, knowing who the traitor is far before the "Hero", can pay off if the goal is to build up suspense for when the "Hero" finds out. But this has to be done very carefully as it is still a risky move. For example, in Death Note, we know who Kira is day one. But when we find out who L is and watch their mind games ensue, we can only hope that L finds out who Kira is even though Kira has been standing next to him the entire time. By the time he found out, it was already too late.
But Galadriel and Halbrand are not a good example of this at all. The difference is that Light and L were always cautious and suspicious of one another despite their "friendship", and while one of them knew the truth the entire time, he had to wait for the perfect moment and take dangerous gambles to outsmart his intellectual equal, the patience of the killer and the suspense that comes with it. While Halbrand seemed to just be playing it for kicks while Galadriel was too busy focusing on the endgame than what was right in front of her. Halbrand didn't need to be cautious, like at all. There was no suspense, he didn't even really need to trick Galadriel because Galadriel just brought her own downfall by failing to be even remotely cautious.
It's like if L said, "Well you're the son of a police officer so you're obviously also a police officer I can trust in this investigation" to Light. And then was never suspicious of Light ever.
So writing the traitor early has its perks but it has to be done right, otherwise, you get the "pLoT tWiSt" of Rings of Power.
"Evil cannot create anything new, they can only corrupt and ruin what good forces have invented or made"
- JRR Tolkien
The ending is all the more ridiculous when you remember that Galadriel, of all people, was the first to sense the deceit in Annatar.
But that was the real Galadriel who sensed the real Sauron. Not this… thing
Excellent, Dave. When philosophy is abandoned, art falls.
The part where galadriel charges in riding a twerking she hulk while shouting "wakanda forever" always gets to me.
yawn
The tragedy is that the Fall of Numenor could be great story, but it’s not one that Hollywood could tell - pride, fear of death, punishment for challenging the gods, etc. But Hollywood would be firmly in Al Pharzon’s camp.
There was a time even in Tolkien's writing that Sauron was on the edge of good. He did not see himself as Evil in the second age . He thought he was foing good. Unlike Morgoth who was pure selfishness.
The villain who thinks he's doing good, or who thinks he wants to do good makes for a far more compelling villain then the cardboard let me kill some of my own henchmen for shits and giggles variety. Unless they get an actor for it who can chew carpet with the best of them. Sauron's desire to want to do good for the world by bringing order was what allowed Morgoth to corrupt him, making for a good origin story. Oddly enough one that the show wanted to retell all over again. Only this time instead of Morgoth it's a pushy Karen elf who turns him to evil.
No true villain sees themselves as evil, yet that does not excuse the objective truth of what they are doing. Motive does not excuse acts of violence and terror. We need only look at real life tyrants to know that while they saw themselves as pure, they were arrogant of their malevolence. Wanting to "bring order" is not an interesting character trait, its cliche, and certainly not a valid justification to generate sympathy in an audience.
@@chaptermasterpedrokantor1623 Sounds like why Bezos does what he does.
@@wishfulthinkin3478 It was not so much he was doing it for evil. One can read into the writing as he initially started out after the fall trying to change. He ended up being as and as Morgoth. Tolkein leaves that time specifically vague. He left it to myth and legend so the reader could choose. The big problem is the show tried cram thousands of years into a short time. He was a longterm prisoner on the island.
@@wishfulthinkin3478 you do realise, that what you've called "cliche" is literally what Tolkien wrote about Sauron? It is not invented out of thin air by Amazon (hence why, coupled with Vickers' performance, it is a good part of the series).
Sure, Amazon took a lot of liberty with pretty much everything, but the core concept of the Sauron in the Second Age stayed true to Tolkien's writings so far.
What I HAVE loved about this show was all the coverage by people like Nerdrotic and company. I've actually learned a ton about the Tolkien lore than I never knew before. Its gotten me back into the original published works of Tolkien and now that I'm an adult reading them I'm getting a much deeper read from them. Otherwise the Amazon series itself is obvious trash, but hey, it got people talking about how great LotR actually is.
I've been watching the Nerdrotic / FNT reviews of Rings of Power fairly faithfully, and I can honestly say I still have no idea what the stakes of the series were supposed to be.
When Lalo morbed all over Howard while screaming "I'm She-Hulk and you gotta deal with it" and then proceeded to make love to Homelander's long lost brother -Sauron- Halbrand I teared up and clapped for 10 minutes straight. Such profound television!
_"the big reveal of the season was fairly obvious to the audience for some episodes now"_
The audience was almost certain he was Sauron from the minute he appeared in episode 1. Just like they were almost certain the Stranger was Gandalf the minute he fell from the sky.
_"and just think, there's plans for five seasons of this show"_
At the rate they're going, the final season is at least 10 years away.
4:27 totally agreed. younger generations don't have a proper "hero" to cling to, they have these confused mess of people
I saw an interview with the actor who plays Halbrand and it seems that he's actually read the Silmarillion, the appendices, and some of Tolkien's letters (which is probably more research than the showrunners bothered to do) and explicitly says that Sauron is irredeemably evil. Doesn't seem like the actors have much control over their scripts, though.
"No one is born evil. Most will be touched by it. But staying is a choice."
Sauron repented of his evil actions and vowed to do good. But instead of going to Valinor as order he fled and hid. He still desired to heal the earth after causing it so much damage. Whether he did this from a genuine desire to do good or just as an act of self preservation and trickery isn't made clear. He did intend to do good when he wasn't being forced to regardless. At least for a while, until he fell back into prideful ways. And this was after loyally serving Morgoth for thousands of years. Maybe said actor mentioned this and thought it was all a ruse by the great deceiver. He did at least try to commit to good deeds for a time. I thought he was the best actor on the show. Which isn't saying much as I can't recall any other good performances. The dwarf maybe? I only saw the show thru a bunch of reviews ripping it to shreds though.
It sounds like they should hire him as showrunner. It sounds like he would be willing to listen to scholars such as Tom Shippey, and, critically, has a solid foundation in Tolkien's work himself, and has enjoyed reading him. So maybe we should get a petition supporting Saur- er, Charlie Vickers for Rings of Power showrunner?
@@marijeangalloway1560 literally anyone would be better than the current ones. Peter Jackson could've done so good with $1 billion
The Rings of Power, Amazon's $1 billion woke flop. 😂
I once worked on a project that had so much money involved that people lost focus on the goal and instead just worked on getting a piece of the action.
I wonder if that is the case here also. How else would you explain so much money spent on a show that most of all feels like a student project.
Just curious, was the project you were on Superman Lives?
I just love the scene where Halbrand says; "This is not Mythril." and hurls the flash flame powder to the ground causing a massive CGI explosion.
I loved it when Bezos stepped back from the fandom and said “We’re gonna need a bigger marketing budget”.
They simply took familiar "member berries" from Tolkien lore, then sort of made up their own "prequel" story to the LOTR. Sort of a fan-fac "dramatization" of Middle Earth history. It diverges greatly from the Jackson trilogy that held true to the literature as written.
my favorite part also is when Guyladriel said “Dead or Alive, you’re coming with me”
As a die-hard Tolkien fan, I'm thoroughly enjoying the show. Is it perfect? No, but it's not a cataclysm of bad TV as many are making it out to be. It captures the spirit of Middle-earth really well and it pays homage to the books AND the moves, all while creating something suitable for Amazon Prime. So they fudged the timeline, those types of changes are not new for TV series. Were fans asking for content around the second age? Yes! Why not? It's a great world, with great characters, Galadriel being one of the most interesting characters in all of Tolkien's writings, IMO. Again, did it have flaws? Sure, but I'd rather have 5 seasons of Rings of Power than nothing created based in Middle Earth. Any opportunity I have to dive back into the world, I will take on head-first - I honestly enjoyed every single moment. I'm always amazed at how people can hate a show, yet watch every single episode and disect each one... by those metrics, it's good.
You said 'good writing' and 'rings of power' in the same sentence. Oh, Dave. you crack me up.
In a 'very real existential sense' sense - and speaking with very specific reference to 'The Rings of Power' - it's quite surprising that the phrases 'good writing' and 'The Rings of Power' don't cancel each other out to equate to a 'Big Fat Zero'!
it's ok if they are separated by the word "not"
Haven't watched any episodes. Looks like I haven't missed much.
It is clear to me that Sauron was tempting her, deceiving her. He did it several times before, to the elven smiths, to Eonwe. He was just following the same path as his master, Melkor, who corrupted the Maia into following him.
Thank you . I agree completely with your review. Tolkien was a Christion who believed in absolute good & absolute evil. There is honor majesty and scope in his writing. If they wanted to make a post-modern relativistic show, they should have, but leave Tolkien out of it. Nowhere in the original was the idea that you should ever embrace (touch) evil. Gil-galad would never be dishonorable. Sauron came to the Elves in the guise of a High Elf, they thought him perhaps a Maier.. No one would have taken a Mortal Man seriously as a Craftsman. And Please- Celibrimbor not knowing about alloys? I've loved this story for decades and refused to see the LoTR Trilogy in the theater because I didn't believe they could do it justice, which I regret. Sadly, I wasted 8 hours of my life on this series.
I think it's fine to have characters that are grey and ambiguous to reflect the average person. But characters that are traditionally the epitome of good/evil should not be muddied up to be so ambiguous.
Your analysis is bang on imo and you nailed current Western culture as well.
So I get a notification and open it immediately. We'll I saw the last few seconds of the premiere. Now to watch the entire video.
Looks like you've got some really tedious TV for the foreseeable, Dave.....good luck!
The amount of you that even considered watching this is astounding.
The shirt going from green to red between the "...5 seasons of this show" and "...ooooh boy" lines was a bigger surprise than the Sauron reveal.
Well spotted!
At least we can thank Amazon for something, that has been unthinkable in the LotR Fandom: We (or at least i) want to see Sauron win over Guyladriel.
There was an interest in bringing the mythic stories of middle earth to the screen. We saw tiny snippets in the movies but seeing the mythic versions done competently and with a focus on bringing the stories of tolkeen to focus like lotr did would be wonderous.
This version instead feels like bile in my throat.
This is the best review I've seen and heard anywhere. Thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth!
Your reflection on good and bad, as absolutes: spot on. Postmodern relativism is destroying us.
So they didn't have the rights to have Sauron disguise him as the Lord of Gifts?
"You cannot know evil until you experience it yourself" Actually I'd say that's pretty accurate. Not in the sense that you have to try evil, more in the sense that you need to be a victim of it before you take the idea seriously. Plenty of people out there are totally closed to the idea of a true metaphysical evil. The ones who aren't are usually people who have been on the receiving end of it. Going through shit in your life *_shows you_* that evil is real.
Right but nowadays you know that blaming a supposed metaphysical evil is simply scapegoating the real material evils of mankind.
No, this is not true. I can understand that the holocaust is pure evil without experiencing it myself. All one needs to do to understand evil is to study history. Of course things that we have experienced are going to resonate more though.
@@benjaminofperrin Unfortunately we have people who are deniers of events like Holocaust Deniers and religious people sure as hell delight in looking as they see fit, brushing away at religious wars and the persecution of others for not fitting the social norms.
Anyone who's anyone knows that Empathy is the Source of Morality as Humans understand it. You could say Evil as Augustine puts it as the absence of Good.
Because just because something bad happens to you doesn't make it evil.
I would say that the Opposite of good is a complete indifference to good.
Cause the true horrors of the Holocaust is that the Nazis were not insane grotesque monsters or something of that line, it was done by people with the psychology of any regular dudes, the conditions that caused WW2 can happen again.
By portraying Nazis as these Impossible evils that can't be replicated, it absolves society, the businesses, the media and political infrastructure that let them in power in the first place of their culpability in that.
So yes applying primitive Narratives of good and Evil is dangerous and irresponsible.
@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme I think he was precisely talking about the evil of mankind rather that some high concept not many pay attention to anyway.
That evil is just as ignored by people who think themselves good.
@@marksalmoneussorcerersupreme "The Opposite of Good is a complete indifference to good"
I like that idea. Thanks.
Sauron was never about being evil just to be evil. He saw the world and knew the chaos and infighting would destroy the world. He wanted control, and of course to be the one with the control. Morgoth wanted to destroy everything and was the embodiment of evil. Sauron was the hero of his own story, felt the races needed to controlled by a superior being or be destroyed. It’s a completely different mindset then just being pure evil.
Creative bankruptcy is an apt description of modern Hollywood
Like the man himself said... "The Shadow Cannot Create it can only Corrupt"
Given Tolkein's unambivalent portrayal of a world in which an entity which represents Supreme Evil is opposed - and finally defeated in open battle - by a 'Coalition of Light' comprising the free peoples of Middle Earth, I am reminded of The Gospel according to St. John: Chapter 10, Vs. 10:
'The thief (Satan) comes only to kill, steal and destroy,
but I (The Lord) am come that they might have Life in all its fullness'
Don't be sad that it happened, smile because it's over.
but it's still there! make it go away..
“my favorite part is when Guyladriel said “there are no pacts between lions and men”
i can’t believe they actually had Gandalf say “I AM GOOD!” lol
I also noticed how strange they made Sauron… They didn’t depict him as pure evil but instead try to make him good or seeking redemption or not on the side of good and evil. It’s another example that the modern movie writers are blurring the line between the truth of good and evil. And in these types of times and situations is where evil can really flourish…
Walter White... as they said.
To be fair, in the lore Sauron did have a period of attempted redemption. It's unclear if he was ever truly repentant out of a genuine desire to do good and forsake evil or simply sheer cowardice after his master was defeated which means the same forces could have made easy work of him.
But he did repent and attempt to surrender to a fellow maiar but when he was told to report back to valinor he instead fled and hid in Middle Earth for many years.
Though he refused to face the music and only came out of hiding when he thought the valar had forgotten about him, he did actually desire to do some good in the form of healing the earth of some of the damage he caused. His true motives again aren't made totally clear but he had the noble goal regardless.
This led him right back down the path of untamable pride when he saw just how much rational creatures admired him and his vast knowledge. Which ultimately made the point of no return just a matter of time.
There is certainly some nuance to how evil Sauron was. First, ultimately desiring order over chaos and wasted friction. Not exactly the most evil desire to begin with. The road to hell being paved with good intentions and all that. Once Morgoth got his evil claws into him that's when Sauron relished commiting despicable deeds. And still he had that period where he had good aspirations. Even after loyally serving the first dark lord for thousands of years.
But he is known as the 'great deceiver' for a good reason as this wasn't the first time he had alluded the Valar themselves. He could have been doing it all strictly as an act of self preservation.
Though, I personally think he did have some good left inside him and had partially pure intentions.
Tolkien states the last good he had was displayed when he corrupted numenor into worshiping morgoth because even though he was engaged in vile actions for evil purposes of revenge he still was able to recognize a being above himself even though that being was the devil in Tolkien's world. When he died in the great wave, any remnant of good left inside him died also. As did his ability to take a fair form. From then on he looked like how he felt/ what he held inside.
To be clear: none of that is to defend the sickening desecration these hacks have committed with this silly show. Or not to acknowledge the tendency in modern media to confuse the sense of right and wrong/ Good and evil of anyone they possibly can. But to simply point out that the character did have more depth than most people tend to realize.
@@DirtySouthJR I'm reading the Simarilian now. It happened well before the time RoP is set and he was being deceptive... he was biding his time and then got found out spreading lies.
Tolkien has him as irredeemably evil.
@@GravityBoy72 To say he was always irredeemably evil isn't accurate. Leaving aside his time as Mairon, his first recorded name which means "the admirable" IIRC. He was corrupted and converted by Morgoth. After serving him loyally for thousands of years, commiting many evil acts, he repents and surrenders himself. You will come to this part after the war of wrath. Tolkien hits readers with his famous "some say" routine when saying that Sauron might have had pure motives when surrendering. Or he could have only done so out of fear.
But he did commit himself to doing good deeds after he fled. No one forced him to. He had no reason to believe he was being watched or would gain any direct benefit. In fact, he assumed the Valar had lost interest. He genuinely wanted to do good. Whether you want to believe he has purely good motives is another story. But he was still redeemable. Of course, he falls back into evil and doesn't look back. But Tolkien mentions the last remaining good in him when he is corrupting numenor. Up to this point he could have been redeemed, even if highly unlikely it was still possible. Once he lost the ability to take a fair form is when he lost any hope of redemption.
Tolkien also makes it pretty clear that there was at least a small part of him that genuinely wanted to do good for its own sake and to reject his evil ways after Morgoth's defeat. He absolutely could have been redeemed at this point and came very close, actually. And some part of him wanted redemption. But he just couldn't bring himself to surrender. His pride was too much to overcome. "The bonds Morgoth laid on him were very strong."
@@DirtySouthJR Irredeemable: "Now Sauron's lust and pride increased, until he knew no bounds, and he determined to make himself master of all things in Middle-earth, and to destroy the Elves, and to compass if he might, the downfall of Númenor. He brooked no freedom nor any rivalry, and he named himself Lord of the Earth. A mask he still could wear so that if he wished he might deceive the eyes of Men, seeming to them wise and fair. But he ruled rather by force and fear, if they might avail; and those who perceived his shadow spreading over the world called him the Dark Lord and named him the Enemy; and he gathered under his government all the evil things of the days of Morgoth that remained on earth or beneath it, and the Orcs were at his command and multiplied like flies"
Will not be watching the second season. What a disappointment!
Well Sauron had a corporal form, but he abandoned it, so when the ring got cut off his finger he lost his power and presence in the visible world. So it makes sense to have him as a real world figure in the second age, as a nazgul like figure at the end of the second age and as a non corporal being in the third age.
Apparently the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (accurately translated) is the Tree of Experiential Knowledge of Good and Evil - as in, knowing something because you've experienced it.
Handing this line to a diabolical character is fine, although you might expect Galadriel to be a little more clued-in than Eve.
My thanks to you guys for watching them and saving us from having to.
Hello, i am new to this channel.
I just wanted to comment on what you said of absolute evil and good.
I believe that at the core of every story is a concept, a moral, or a goal. Matter of fact, ancient historians used to changed details of actual events to give a meaning, a scale or an ending to the stories there were telling. Real life was also a story to them, and it also had a meaning.
Morality has always been at the center of most stories and has always had at least a big part in the rest. In the case of Tolkien, i want to say that it is the main subject of his whole mythos, though i am in no place to claim that.
By corrupting and changing this core part of Tolkien's mind and changing it into something he hated, something modern, clearly in opposition to his values, and to his vision of morality, not only did they blatantly insult him, they also changed and corrupted his WHOLE mythos, since it is at the core of it. They made it senseless, and as for everything senseless, it will not pass the test of time.
There are people at my job that praise this show and are genuinely excited about it.
The Valar called Melkor later known as Morgoth was a fallen godlike creation of Eru Illuvitar (The one true god). The Valar (godlike beings) where created to bring good to Arda, the world but Morgoth was the opposite. Sauron was a Ainur (angelic immortal being) who was corrupted by Morgoth. Sauron was more powerful than the Maier, lesser Ainur like Gandalf and Saruman.
I'm dreading what they would do with C.S Lewis.
Wow you made it through the whole show!
Yes
Albeit at the cost of an emergency stomach transplant!
@@petergleave7807 Your sacrafice will not be forgotten. Unlike the plot.
Ideologues who make self-defeating claims like there aren't _any_ absolute truths, do so absolutely.
Well, you do need to experience good and bad, happy and sad, pain and no pain, etc. to know the difference, which is better, a neutral state, and so on.
It's perfectly reasonable to say that you can't really know evil until you see it or learn about it in detail, and can apply it to yourself, and imagine yourself in the position of the victims and the aggressors, etc. A little kid has no idea about evil, until his innocence is broken by experience and learning.
After watching the season, I have no choice other than rooting for Sauron.
This is exactly how I felt when watching Black Panther.
the intro was enough for me, how tf did they mine the vibranium 😂
Thank you for talking about this, I've said it before, taking the villain of LotR and making him "morally gray" is a massive spit in the face to Tolkien's beliefs that were incredibly visible in his work. He believed in good and evil. He believed that some things in this world are just good, and some are just evil. Sauron is the embodyment of that, he is evil itself, what corrupts and entices and destroys, and the idea of making him even SLIGHTLY sympathetic is ludicrous, it's like a reboot of Fight Club where Tyler Durden happily returns to his old office job in the end. It's so damn disrespectful. If you don't agree with his beliefs and can't unbiasedly portray them DON'T ADAPT HIS WORK
I don't think you are really familiar with Tolkien's work. Otherwise, you would not say that.
Whilst Sauron's master, Melkor, represents Satan in his hubris against God (hubris that turns into vile hate), Sauron himself is hardly the Embodiment of Evil. There're several sources (letter 131 and, if I recall correctly, letter 138) that show how Sauron began his relapse into darkness out of a noble goal in mind.
Morgoth is the Embodiment of Evil. Sauron's role is different - he is an embodiment of a concept, how even noble motivations can be twisted and lead you into Darkness.
Astonishing anyone could watch LOTR or read the books and come away with an impression other than Sauron is evil and there is no good in him.
@@aleksander8497 astonishing anyone could just not read Tolkien's letters and realised that Sauron is a character with nuance and detail to him.
Go f*cking read.
Are you drunk? Sauron didn't have a love interest with Galadriel either. The narrative in the books of Sauron's corruption of Numenor was considerably more interesting and deep. You go read that
@@aleksander8497 I am not drunk, but you are a liar. I have said no word about Sauron and Galadriel's shipping - because it is Amazon's creation. Don't shift the subject of talk, we aren't talking about Amazon's ham-fisted romance, but about Sauron's character.
What I've said, and what you've tried to escape, is how Sauron's character is more nuisance than merely “Manifestation of Evil”. That role already belongs to Melkor, whilst Sauron is more complex in his motivations and his fall/relapse to Evil.
The Memes yes but another good thing about this show is it put some brilliant creators(Disparu to name one) on everyone's radar.
"Evil" is not always easy to see. If it were, there would not be so much man-made suffering in this world. Ironically, many people who do evil actually believe they are righteous. The Star Trek Next Generation Episode Drumhead: "Vigilance, Mr. Worf."
I do think that, sometimes, "It takes one to know one." If you think that you can easily see "Evil," then you will be fooled. Vigilance!
Sauron, whether Halbrand, Annatar or however the Amazon writers name him should be the embodiment of evil. He is not an antihero. He is not a lovable villain. He is evil.
To portray him as anything less than evil is to neuter the world Tolkien created.
Not quite. Morgoth was pure evil. Sauron on the other hand wanted order. He falls more in the category of I know what's best for you and I will make you do it, with or without your cooperation. The end justifies the means. Tolkien famously hated allegories, but if Morgoth was Satan then Sauron was the great dictators of the 20th century. Which is probably why the writers turned him into a likeable villain. The left worships these great dictators still. The end justifies the means is still the left's creed.
I think there is nothing inherently bad in making Sauron try to start a new life after the disaster of the First Age. Even showing him actually trying to help the Elves by creating the ring-forging techniques alongside Celebrimbor and using an inherent flaw it the process only after falling to darkness again, is fine. That is much like his story in Silmarillion: he tried to work with other Maiar and Valar smiths, but his self-centred nature and lust for power get better of him. At the same time the "good guy Sauron" phase could actually happen. He was not fully committed to Morgoth and his actions could have been misunderstood/reinterpreted by his enemies. And when his fall came, it was so complete, noone ever believed he did anything out of his good will or kindness of his heart.
But, and this is very crucial "but", the setup and the eventual fall would have to be masterfully crafted. Sauron would have to feel hurt and betrayed to the level there would be no turning back - and at the same time all of it must be brought on him by himself. Sauron, as Satan in Christianity, is always his own greatest enemy, bringing destruction upon himself (which is an important theme in LotR).
I don't think I could pull it off. George Lucas, arguably, could not pull if off. The writers of Bezos of the Ring most certainly can't.
Yep. Well said, Dave!
"The stone looks down into the darkness and sinks, but the ship looks up t the heavens and floats."
"But what if you flip the stone upside down as you put it in the water?"
"Then you get pumice."
If I were to write a Lord of the Rings Prequel, I wouldn’t have its main focus on established characters and events, rather I would establish from the beginning that the events of the simirilion have or are taken place, and that those stories are playing out behind the scenes, then I would create a bunch of brand new characters and tell an original story that is only briefly influenced by the events of the larger world.
Amazon's Ripoff if it were to be defined, is itself evil.
Take any of the fan's commentaries on how it butchered the lore and you see how abhorrent this series is.
Piratically nothing is cannon, or true to the lore Tolkein laid out.
To me, the best approach is apathy towards it. Just don't watch it.
Seen tbe hobbits run at the end and then been overtaken by men to go to defend middle earth really got me going. Damn, peter Jackson really did put his heart into making the best Tolkien adaption that he could. Man them movies are amazing.
I have a friend who is a local recognize compositor for jazz and other stuff.. he always enjoy more the music in a series or a movie. We watch sometimes marathon of LOTR And stuff.. the face that he did when he heard that awful song at the end of the season was priceless.
"You can't tell what evil is until you have experienced it for yourself."
I actually agree with that. How else can you truly KNOW the difference between "good" and "evil"? It just isn't a book-learning exercise. It is what we are here to decide for ourselves, through DIRECT EXPERIENCE.
Observation will always be a superior teacher to direct experience.
@@Hexiad "Some people learn by reading, some by observation, and some have to pee on the electric fence for themselves." -Will Rodgers Not an eloquent quote for sure, but I believe it sums up the thought process here. One certainly could learn a thing or two by committing a crime, but there are always consequences and those consequences could always be learned elsewhere. But some have to try it anyway because of an inherent shrugging off of good and evil. Without accepting the knowledge of both, as our society has shunned and has passed down fervently, one becomes as lost as a lamb without a shepherd. Thus the inherently foolish idea of "try it before you buy it" is born. Not like that ever ended poorly. 🙄
I disagree. When working with children we teach them proper behavior through modeling good behavior; and give reasoning for why not to try bad behavior. We don't let Children burn their hands on stoves to learn. Modeling bad behavior makes them more likely to copy what they see. I don't need to kill another person to know it is wrong. I don't need to do drugs, become a heavy drinker, or a food addict to know it is wrong. When I was young I discussed with multiple good moral adults who had also never done those things why it is a good idea to commit myself to never do those things or other more damaging or evil behaviors that cause harm to myself and others; Then I can easily notice how such abhorrent behaviors damage those that do them. As the other person in this thread wisely stated observation is superior to direct experience in resulting in people not choosing evil.
@@lovetobe6118 " We don't let Children burn their hands on stoves to learn. "
You are fantasizing. You cannot eliminate all painful experiences from life, nor should we.
" I don't need to kill another person to know it is wrong"
Depends on the level of "knowing" we are talking about. There is "knowing", and there is "KNOWING".
"I don't need to do drugs... to know it is wrong."
Our best drug councilors are ex-addicts.
" observation is superior to direct experience"
Very shallow understanding of how we deeply learn and ultimately grow in a real, soul-level, sense.
@@Hexiad "Observation will always be a superior teacher to direct experience."
That is just as silly as it sounds.
Not one of your main points, but I just wanted to clarify one thing: most of the time, Sauron DOES have a physical form, and he WAS able to take a so called "fair form". In that sense, his representation here is not totaly wrong. The Peter Jackson trilogy represented him as a giant, incorporeal eye, but in the books the "Eye of Sauron" was refering more to his presence and magic. He had a physical body, he was just residing in the tower. Also, he was moved in his actions by a corrupted idea of order, so it's not completely unreasonable that he saw his domination of Middle Earth as a "good deed".
I love the scene with Gandalf and the girl Hobbit at the end. It's very Christian. I would watch a series about them confronting the ringwraiths and Sauron in the East. I love the Hobbit novel.
pukes
There was so much to work with from Tolkiens actual work in the second age. Peter Jackson chose not to include Tom Bombadil in the LOTR movies because he couldn't fit it in, would have been great to see him worked into a show about the second age. I was so disappointed in the writing for this show in general I went back and watched the original Peter Jackson trilogy and I appreciate them even more after watching ROP lol.
You would think if there were plans for five seasons, they would not be writing from the hip. Perhaps they rush the writers so they have time for the visuals. Perhaps all the money is to pay the entitled diverse writers who throw together a script ski they can spend their money.
For years movies have been made for Hollywood; for awards and praise. They don't understand anything outside of southern Californian life, so this is gold and clever to them.
Access to resource material, extremely high budgets, content saturation and writing savvy should be at its highest zenith right now, yet we’re getting some of the lowest quality writing we have ever seen. What is going on? We deserve better.
VERY ENTERTAINING, HOPE TO SEE MORE VIDEOS JUST LIKE THIS.
This reminds me of the "big reveal" of first season of American Gods, that i otherwise liked. Chernobog calls Wednesday "Wotan" explicitly and repeatedly in front of Shadow in episode 2, Sweeney calls him Grimnir in several episodes, Media and Mr World makes explicit reference to Odin during their one encounter, there are many other clues that are visible for Shadow and yet he's completely surprise when Wednesday "reveals" he's Odin.
And Shadow does say in the first episode that he spent his time in prison reading books, hundreds of books.
I will point out that Tolkien himself established that the Valar made several critical misjudgments of how to handle Melkor because they didn't understand the nature of evil, having had no experience of it.
I will also note that Tolkien played with both the traditional idea that Evil is an absence rather than a thing in itself, and that it can act as a presence. I suggest reading "JRR Tolkien - Author of the Century" by Tom Shippey for more on this complex topic.