Seeing the danger of conditioning | J. Krishnamurti
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2021
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Seeing the danger of conditioning | J. Krishnamurti
Extract from the second dialogue in Saanen, 1978.
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Still very relevant today as it was in 1978!
More than ever
It's eternal
Unbelievable. Tears come to my eyes. ♥️
Seeing and understading this is extremely sad, everyone is just acting out their conditioning unable to help it and completely unaware of it
Yes it is. Ive cried many times seeing this.
That's why it is said they are dreaming who have not realized the Self. Also, why those like K are said to be awakened. He's saying a similar thing that is in the Patanjali yoga sutras. "Now I give the explanation of yoga and its practice." "The skill of yoga is demonstrated
by the conscious non-operation of the vibrational modes of the mento-
emotional energy." "That non-operation of the vibrational modes
is achieved by effective practice in not having an interest
in the very same operations." Buddha said something like this in a response to a question by Manjusri. "Manjusri asked, World-honored one, what is the state of the unconditioned? Buddha said, The absence of thought is the state of the unconditioned." When you ignore those thoughts they die out of their own for want of fuel, like a revolving fan that is cut off from power slows down, you notice the gaps more and more until finally it comes to a halt. It isn't a doing, although it may seem to take effort in the beginning it will become effortless and natural. For some it is instant, perpetual silence instantly. For most others, the mind takes a while for conditioning to perish. When the mind is gone completely, there is no more sense of self and other, no more conflict, no sense of what is inside or outside. There is peace. Let there be peace and love among all beings of the universe, aum Shanti Shanti Shanti. ❤
so do we,dont we. what to do about it
@@satriakesumap I was thinking the same question. I think if we try to do something about someone else's conditioning, we may end up in trouble either by re-conditioning them, or making them dig in deeper. On the other hand, by listening to K, I got a heads-up, a warning to be careful about my own conditioning before I try to sort out other peoples. The same goes, ironically, for ourselves: if we actively interfere with our own conditioning, we will almost certainly produce unpredictable results. K's advice was 'do nothing' other than to be aware of our conditioning. If we maintain that awareness, the conditioning will depart by itself. We are so 'conditioned' to take action, that this is hard to believe!
There is a saying which I think is relative to this idea: 'If the Tao grows a foot, the demon is already ten feet tall!'. In other words if you go into battle against something you dislike about yourself and try to get rid of it, you may actually strengthen its existence. Deny its existence, you automatically affirm it by default. Acknowledge it's existence and fret about what to do about it, or actively try to expel it, you have again reaffirmed its existence.
If you leave it be, do nothing but remain aware of it, then it looses energy and vanishes. I don't say this is the truth. I just say this is how I see it and that this has worked for me. The very realisation that we are conditioned is sufficient in itself to free us from the conditioning -- provided we stand back and let the realisation do the work without conscious, activist interference from ourselves.
As I believe lordwhite0 in the comment above implies, in meditation when an unpleasant or unwanted thought comes up, we let it be. If we engage with it -- either by denying it or fighting it -- we empower it. For example, there is no point in realising that one has been culturally conditioned to be a fanatical Protestant, if in trying to eliminate that conditioning we re-condition ourselves to be become fanatical anti-Protestants. We are still conditioned: the same demon but under a different name.
So K's answer is be aware, then do nothing. And the amazing thing is that doing nothing, in that context, is infinitely more powerful than trying do something about it. Not easy to do nothing, but better to put the effort into something which is effective than a course action which is harmful. Again, this is just my take on it. I am not a guru LOL.
@@davidhanna8029 excellent. Thank you
Everything has got to be explained. Beloved Sir, In these hard times - miss you so much ❤
Yeah
I’m
One of the best lectures on our being. I am so glad he cuts through the religious prejudices.
I have to rewind thrice to grasp the last part and there's lies the fact. Thank you for uploading
I've to do it once and I got it. I felt this is the crux of the video, the takeaway of inaction. A brilliant video it is isn't it?
That's the Message ☺️, thank you for being helpful guiding me to hold the grasp on the Speach especially the last part. 🌷
Every problem has the same solution just to see it trying not to get involved in it with thought...but just seeing it and it fades away eventually...
This man l have listened to for many year's, really is one of the Greatest teacher just by listening "what's listening"
One of the greatest speech ever listened. So clear and revealing at the same time. Thanks for sharing this one.
J. Krishnamurti is truly the greatest gift to humanity. Profuse and eternal thanks to each and every person having responded to K's petition to disseminate The Teachings, evidently the ONLY posibilty to save our planet, wiith all life on it, the Solar System, and probably much, much more...🙏
We see the Sun by its very light We don't have to do a thing J Krishnamurti is Light To see our conditioning we have to be perceptive Perceiving is doing and this is Intelligence for which sensitivity is needed which cannot be learnt from another
@@joginderanand7618 Thank you kind friend for your insight. I understand now . Its not a bout doing which implies a reaction .🙏💘🌞🌎❤️ Direct observation of it .
One word: Genius 💡
the most importand thing man has to do. See the dangerous of the self. But we have to do it seriously, fearless and with courage. A real seeker can see the trueth but when i seek for my self, to become a better ego, i never can find trueth...
Hello, please explain this in simpler words... i am so touched and intrigued by this statement
When someone has the belief that they are a separate entity then that which appears in their awareness, and we use that belief to dictate how they act and talk and think, and it will only lead to suffering and vanity, because there are no separate individuals called “selves” all life forms and not just humans, all are One, it only appears separate which is an illusion of the mind, when we come to understand that, we start to become free and compassionate because nothing is separate from anyone it’s all connected and therefore we choose love and kindness because “I am” includes all life. Hope that helps
Any positive action is inaction whereas being aware of conditioning (watching all its responses) and not doing anything, but just observing, is intelligence. ~ Krishnamurthy (rephrased)
no ambition = intelligence
a tree doesn’t attempt to be anything else naturally logically scientifically
☮️
It's very sad what humans have done themselves
Brilliance....Honesty....Truth.
This is it.. Freedom at last....❤
Excellent advice
Choice is seldom a reflection of freedom in todays world. As we understand choice in the realm of cognitive studies most are actually compulsory symptoms of damage done to the subconscious of a child. “Choice is conditioning”.
How you handle a situation is not entirely your choice, but how you handle yourself is entirely yours. Exercise your choice.
So, we're conditioned to be miserable. Caught up making compulsive decisions to be feel secure. Conditioning is dangerous. I hear ya bro, lets raise our kids to aspire? Aspire to what?
Aspire them just to be themselves
@@tomaszliske2131 r😁
That sounds like a pretty massive leap for a field like cognitive science. Where did you get a conclusion like that from?
J K is a genius..thank u sir
Exordinary Speach on danger of conditioning by JK Sir , J K sir is genius.and Brilient
Thank You Master
All is One
I see the danger of being conditioned. It’s very crucial to see this. Now….as an adult this recognition has led me to a dark discovery. I do believe light will arise.
BRILLIANT! … as always!
好慶幸能聽到這段話，無為，原來意義深刻
New age movement. Coming a total human being. Totally free and totally unconditioned. Welcom to eternity 🎉❤
Thank you
Brilliant sir by heart❤
Genius man. Buddha himself.
I feel he would not thank for this label🙏
@the white rabbit thank you
@Iñaki Macazaga that comment it’s self is conditioned as silly as it sounds it’s a bit of a paradox
Except one man no body can see it as simple because our condittional Mind never touch the same he is extraordinary and unique must say Krishnamurti the Avatar and a time will come to the world know what is the pure and perfect word to change the human condition ing
He is an Avatar like Buddha. Krishna ..but this time in a Greater. He started to change human revolution from the root in there is no word no comparison and nothing say about The Krishnamurti universe made one time Krishnamurti to change the violent free World .but the fake are cover it.one time will come every body will read the lessons of real truth... ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Jk is a real psychologist.....
I feel Krishnamurti was pragmatic and fearless, always a thought away from insanity right to his end. Genius
Thank you!
Thanks guru ji
Why paint your conditioning to him?
Using the word he utterly rejected!
@@ThomiX0.0Yes, many people paint him as buddha but they Don't know that jiddu krishnamurti has denied any authority including buddha and his teachings or any sect.
Thank you❤
We need this wisdom today.,in the world..,!
Ohhhh, I LOVE this!! I LOVE listening to those who help me to expand!!!
Amazing. So very beautiful and true.
Wow excellent, 💛💛💛💛💛
Namaste thankyou
All I can see is Grace! Intelligence!
03:02 the nature of conditioning
07:10 do you know you are conditioned?
18:35 is it possible to be totally unconditioned?
Yeah. Get away from civilian terrorist territories (Babylon) and then see how much differently you think an act.
@@nimofoxx2902 🤣🤣
Beautiful talk. I found a book from him in the second hand shop and I was sold. Much love. xx
Lucky you! 💜
What book is it ?
Wonderful question !
This is interesting I see where he is going
When I had a mystical experience, I suddenly realized that there is nothing to do at all and we are all fine just the way we are. conditions are not reality it’s only an imagination. When one realize this, you’ll realize everything you do (meditation or yoga etc) has no concrete purpose. It’s meaningless on the level of the mind. There is a higher purpose and reason for the things we do - we don’t need a reason. The reason is beyond what we think it is. So whatever we do, just do it without attachment or judgement. Just do it.
Yes there is a Higher purpose and The only One : to realize our True Nature, to wake up from the mortal dream and abide in our True Self which is behond thoughts, undescribable, yet we have to use the mind to get rid of the mind or the ego, once you're with no mind The Ultimate will take over and Bliss, Joy, Happiness, Love, God will be, always has been, is, will, be, have a wonderful journey....
Yes You know my name, and I know you are watching over me in Longview Washington, Thank you for all you do I'm so grateful
Conditioning is very dangerous. It requires a great deal of investigation for un-conditioning the content of consciousness.
I can't 'uncondition' it, as it would be the same..
yes
With out content there is no you if there is no you then where is all the stuf he is a paradox
@ Thomas,
You said "I can't 'uncondition' it, as it would be the same"
If there is nothing to "uncondition". Then you will not try to get identified with the statement you said.
Hope you understand
Seeing the conditioning is getting rid of it
MOST BRILLIANT! SUPERWONDERFUL! "How do you know that you are in pain? Somebody tells you that you are in pain?
Or is pain separate from you who says, "I'm in pain?" K
I was waiting for the video release :)
Me too :)
Same here.
Me three :)
Deep Gratitude! ... profound healing... and as one of the conditionings arose again after co-healing with Krishnamurti Psyche re.minded great wisdom shared by Mohandas Gandhi: "repentance is not to repeat" in our experiences we can stop repeating (come out of the conditioning as consciousness) the moment we realize the harm of conditioning but often we choose not to ... why?
BRILLIANT! WHAT A GIFT!
brilliance
Thanks a lot Sir
6:22 Once people’s minds are conditioned there is division.
13:45 It’s only when looking at something ( yourself, or some facet or question about yourself ) [ from ] outside yourself, [ that ] you can say you are conditioned. [ Become aware of your own conditioning. ]
18:54 Is it possible to be unconditioned ?
21:43 Once you see the danger . . . it is finished.
28:25
31:16 Don’t do a thing. Instead be with it and don’t act. Be aware of it. Observing it.
Non positive action.
My night lecture ❤
Great speech.
Thanks for uploading
Love
We are all conditioned to be happy and on peace, and this very conditioning gives human kind sorrow and suffering. No conditioning, no suffering!!!
Not actually on contrary thought is conditioned in it very nature of protection then happy and peace is intelligent response of mind to find order but one don’t see ways of thought there lies mischief misery not in happy and peace.we are not conditioned by happy and peace but it is sensitive response of pain abberation which is intelligence not conditioning problem lie in not see nature of thought and found expression in thought world.
Thanks🙏🙏🙏🙏 love you sir I am also like you hate conditioning of society, world, people, etc indeed sociology also says this society don't let any individual fly. Thy conditioning them they create Hall Mark of good or bad hit or flop, nice or not, that's create premonition in individual not let him do his karma.
✍ yessir 🙏🌟
Love ❤ that k!
got it.
🙏🙏🙏
All of us would have experienced at some point in our lives pure joy when the I does not exist atleast for a few moments. Then it passes and we are left wondering if it is possible to live a life filled with joy like this .A joy which is not dependent on external factors but arises from within .What kind of sadhana is required to reach a stage like this..
its amazing to listen him but impossible to realize actually what he said .
It's not impossible. Check out his talk with A. Anderson at SDSU 1-18
Not really.
@@nimofoxx2902 may be i am very much conditioned or have dull mind
this man is genius
🙏
True
the ripe fruit is falling simultaneously the root is cut this total aware interrogation inner is very important thanks for sharing this video ;)
Jiddu was my first teacher
Miralo y dejalo en paz!!
Mantenlo sencillo, lo dice siempre, y la analogia del precipicio es tan literal que es dificil no verlo, que alegria y que explosion en mi mente.
Buenos dias.
Full acceptance internal and external without fear
Conditioning towards unconditional mind that is free of will
Will - Quiet part of the mind that Observes, accepts, rejects, eliminates, indulges, orders corrections and changes, master in its own place capable of self empire. Sri Aurobindo
🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
🦋
This my greatest weaknesses sir i know I can do many many things but yehi hai stone 🗿 gravel, throne, in my 👣.
TRUE HUMAM BEING IS ALWAYS FREE FROM CONDITIONING
SOCIAL BEING IS SOCIALLY CONDITIONED
❤
Wow such interesting points. Some questions humanity could potentially ask itself in order to start an inner dialogue is if you saw someone being bullied on the playground as a child, would you stand up for them or would you not and why? As an adult, what if you witnessed a similar situation?
Positive action is in total inaction
🌹👏🏽🌹👏🏽🌹👏🏽🌹
It's only sad from your conditioned response 😘
All said 😭
I hope you must be here one day🙂
💛🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
At 15:02
(A) So, you know when you HAVE pain.
(B) So, you know when you ARE pain.
Conflict born out of conditioning!
Action not based on thought which is spontaneous is positive action and that has to be done as we are a living being e.g self preservation of our life.
You can recondition yourself when it is necessary for your survival, happiness alone will not break, only stretch the bonds. I reject my conditioning, not as an ideal or philosophy, but because it is at the core of my being, and I must live my truth or cease to exist with any meaning.
But it doesn't mean that old or new precipices won't appear when you are walking. But when you see them you won't walk off them.
If we are conditioned we can never be creative
16:55 A magnet.
"Any form of psychological choice is conditioning "
33:10 in 1978 and in 2022 the same nonsense of human beings over and over again
this is one of his best videos in my opinion
"Conditioned means brought up limited, into divided mind ... "
My soul and my ego, maybe...
Soul set aside, since I can only see it after I died ... 👋😊🤩😁, what I call "me or I" is my ego, may be in two parts, my images and skills/ abilities
Leaving skills- side aside, since there is nothing to question about, other.than pride, then what I have in my hand is the image of the me.... No ...
Go back to the skills side, if I delete the skills, even if I could... then life would become either unlivable without a job, or I would be bored to death. So just pluck out the pride and go back to image side with it ... ...
... Well... I am all divided ...
Can I get all of them back together, into the original state? How was my original state and where can I find it?
How many parts do I have to worry about?
...
So, this is one part of conditioning, trying to do something about i... the me
Can I just watch all those part of me dancing around individually or dancing around beautifully and harmoneously, in total mathematical order?
Why still separate?
It is wat the mind does automatically, seeking the contrast in order to choose..
Why follow that, becoming a politician of yourself..?
Enjoy the moment, seeing it.:-)
@@ThomiX0.0 choicelessly
🧚🏻♂️🌌🦅
..this wonderful Life..!
And what did I make of it, pfff..
beyond buddha and above any god who has walked upon this earth
When you die your conditions or conditionings die with you, too. Better early than later
Can link to this full dialogue be shared?
How are these dialogues at one place (for example saanen), are dialogues/talks 1, 2, 3 related? Are these continuous (on different days)?
For this and any other extracts, you can look it up yourself by searching for the full talk using the information in the video description. In this case, simply search for 'Saanen 1978 Dialogue 2' either directly on CZcams or Google. If you learn this method you won't need to ask for the link again. Hope this helps. As for series of talks in the same location/year, you can see the date an event took place in the title slate at the start of the video. For series of public talks, usually they took place one or two days apart, and they were usually very much connected. Although each talk makes sense as a stand-alone, it is worth watching a whole series chronologically.
Collectively whatever videos i have seen of him
I want to say one thing that, the very moment he says " Are you following all this, are you with me ?"
This is very very crucial
Otherwise we are lost...
Cannot understand what actually he wants to say ....
Wisdom cannot be communicated and is shared at the same level with the same intensity at the same time
Don't do anything .. 👍
By acting you oppose to it.. then it’s the same…I have no ambition