Did Hermès Snub Me? Hermès Lawsuit & Baby Birkin!
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- čas přidán 29. 03. 2024
- #hermes #shoppingineurope #MyfavoriteswithMaggie
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These videos about Hermes helps me to get over the "brand".
I watch these kind of videos too for all luxury brands so that I know what’s going on. ☺️❤️
Was never a big fan. Definitely not ever going to Hermes’
Same for me, I’ll give my money to smaller brands with excellent craftsmanship, no need to feed into the hype
All of these things have turned me off so much I sold my Picotin & Mini Lindy. So over it.
Hermes CEO is a genius. This is the only business I know where the customers are treated like shit and they are happy to spend thousands of dollars on crap they don't need in hope of getting a bag. Any bag. And feel grateful when they get it. And happy to pay any price for it. Genius.
It's like having a bad boyfriend who treats a girl like sh*t and she keeps going back to him trying to be a perfect girlfriend so that he'll love her more. They are genius at marketing. ❤
on the other hand...I think people are getting tired of paying $$ with negative customer experience and decreased product quality.
@@kadd4415 I agree - I think the tide is turning.
French marketing /snobbery at its finest.
Stockholm syndrome. LOL!!!!!
The thought of so many women begging the store to sell them a handbag is mind-boggling to me.
hmmm…. I thought I asked for a bag to purchase - just as if I ask for availability of an item to purchase at a department store. If a sales associate at a store tells me that they don’t have an, and if I think they may have the item, I ask the sales person to check in the back to see to confirm. But you’re not the only person who saw it as me begging, so I must not have conveyed how I really felt accurately enough. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. ❤️
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie Oh sorry, I didn't mean you. I think you handled the situation admirably. I was referring to seeing snd knowing so many women desperate to get their hands on a Birkin, to a point of almost begging. Which reflects what a insane world we live in today.
I used to buy Hermes in the 90s, usually at the Tokyo flagship store. It was a nice experience back then. I dont know why people buy Hermes now. Sounds like a horror story of a brand now.
I didn't get into Hermès until a few years ago, but your experience sounds wonderful! That's how it should be now..... Thanks for watching and commenting! 😘
I really find it hard to understand why woman allow these designers to humilate them. You have the money and they feel that you are not good enough to own their product. Stop doing this to yourself and find a brand that respects you and wants you to be happy with your purchase. I would never allow a salesperson or a company treat me in such a way.
Great point, but I didn't feel humiliated, but rather more warranted to call out for what I wanted. The fact that they didn't have the item that I wanted or that they came out with a bag after saying there's no bag available made me walk out without buying anything from that particular store. At my age, I'm not ashamed of any of my actions - I know exactly what I'm willing to buy and the service I'm willing to take. That said, everyone makes mistakes when they are busy, so, I'm not quick to judge on any actions of a sales person immediately, but once I feel that I'm not getting the curtesy and respect I deserve, I walked out. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤️😘
And still, so many are queing to buy an Hermes bag , I just can’t believe, not just the crazy prize , but the humiliation people are willing to endure in order to get a handbag 😳
I went to the Hermes store in Vienna last week. I am Filipino and was paired with a Filipino SA. He was honest enough to tell me that the 25 mm Birkin that I was interested in is not only hard to get but you have to be on the wishlist, I think is what they call it. He also told me that they prioritize the locals versus the tourists. His advice to me was if I am planning to go to Paris that I would have a better chance of getting it there. I appreciated his honesty and he talked to me for almost an hour to explain their policy. I know he really wanted to help me but he also has to follow their store policy. I still bought a bangle to show him my appreciation. I’ve been snubbed at the Paris stores also so never again. I feel your frustration. I can’t believe we have to beg to buy a $10K bag (that is the price in the US). I know it is cheaper in Europe. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Hermes are picking and choosing who they what to sell their bags too which is wrong if they keep doing that they will lose customers.
So far, their sales practices, whether it's fair or not, is working to increase their revenues. I think unless people decide that they no longer covet these bags, Hermès holds the upper hand. It's fair capitalism - if consumers continue to want their items, they can continue to do the same sales practice. Thanks Virginia for watching and sharing your thoughts!
To the contrary- this is exactly the reason they are able to sell at the highest price level out of all mainstream "luxury" brands.
My H SA has been saying the “I don’t know when we’re getting bags in” line to me since 2012. I stopped asking after 2015. I was always polite, dressed nice but casual and always friendly. The day I stopped asking was when I saw another customer, apparently a FOMO member, get a bag with no purchase history. It was a 25cm in a color that was definitely not popular and she squealed in delight. She didn’t care what color and leather. So of course when she was looking for Twillys, I complimented her bag. I asked the color and leather and clueless. I went to my SA, who was always pleasant and we’d have great conversation, and let him know that I wasn’t going to ask about bags anymore. It was quite obvious that a twit with a sugar daddy that couldn’t even pronounce Hermes, was more their style for a Birkin or Kelly. I only go back there to drop off things for the spa service. If I want perfume or something else, I get it online. No bag? Okay, no commission on other things. We’re not friends. It’s business and I can retaliate in my own way.
Omg, that’s so aggravating! I’ve been waiting for either a Kelly or a birkin at my local store since 2019. Couple times, my sa said that ‘she’s got me’ when I mentioned some of my big milestones that I’d like to celebrate with buying one of these bags. But alas, nothing. That said, she did say that supply was limited due to the pandemic. That said, with all the stuff I went through last year and this year, I haven’t been back to the store in over a year. My SA is nice and pleasant, but I’ve got too many things on my plate these days. C’est la vie. ❤️😘
The only place I’d go for a new bag nowadays is Paris. That’s, if you can get an appointment and maybe an SA that wants to make you happy. I got my first B in NY in ‘96 before the mad rush in the 2k. Back when there was no wish list.
@@StarrTrekn I was not into luxury bags in the 90s and thought that spending couple hundred dollars on a bag was an extravagant gift for me! How I’ve evolved! 😂
My first intro to H was in the mid 80s during my internship. One of the lady bosses asked if I wanted to join her as she was going shopping. Who was I to say no? It ended up being very educational since she wanted to know more about me and my goals. We went to pick up her B35 in box noir. That bag was her gift to herself for aiming high in a male dominated industry and reaching a level that she could get this bag and not second guess herself spending the money on it. We are still friends to this day, she still has that bag and I still have mine that I got which is also a B35 box noir. I miss the days you could walk in, order, wait about 2 years and get a bag. Good times. 😂😂😂
@@StarrTrekn Love that story! A Birkin 35 to celebrate her achievement! I feel like that about my luxury purchases now. I've worked hard for 50 years before I allowed myself to buy expensive things to celebrate my achievements. I wish we could go back to the good old days of waiting on a waitlist and knowing what the rules are. Definitely a first world problem. 😂😘
Your scarf is lovely and looks so pretty on you 🌸
Thank you so much! 😘
To each their own!
Thank you for sharing your experience - this reminds us all that our money is our own and that we should not give it to people who are deceiving and lying to us no matter what "brand" they represent
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
I haven't purchased any Hermes bags for a couple of years, but haven't had any issues getting the bags I wanted. When I was in Paris 13 years ago I walked into the flagship store and purchased a Kelly. On the same trip we went to Nice and then onto Monaco where I purchased an Hermes clutch. I believe it was called the good lock. At the same store I was offered an orange Birkin. It wasn't a color I was interested in so I turned it down. When we went to Hawaii, I visited the Honolulu store and purchased a garden party and an Evelyne bag without any issues. Recently in Colorado, I stopped into an Hermes store to see if any Evelyne bags were available and they told me they didn't have any stock so I left. I am never desperate for any bag. If the store doesn't have what I want, I just go to a different store. Honestly, Hermes doesn't care whether or not the non-elite customers buy their goods or not. They have plenty of ultra wealthy people who will keep them in business for a very long time.
Totally agree! Unfortunately, I think that the buying process is different now than a decade ago. Thanks for sharing your experience! ❤️
I would 100% have done the same, including walking out 🤣
I was very close to walking out too, but it's kind of weird because when they speak to you, they're speaking in nice tones and being pleasant. So, I'm not aware that they may be brushing me off right away.
I'm sure they don't care if you walk out and in some instances, that is what they are hoping for. Very toxic.
I guess I would never understand u would support a luxury fashion house ur hard working money for what so u can carry their handbags! It's really sad that we wasted ur x ?😢
I am completely disinterested in Hermes’ because of the games. At the end of the day, those workers are just people who go home to their homes in the suburbs after work. We should not be judged or shamed by anyone.
I totally agree. At the end of the day, we’re all souls having human experiences no matter what our earthly circumstances are. ❤️
Former SA here 👋🏾 - worked in Shoes. We always had bags even when we didn’t 😊
I knew it!!! 😂😂. Thank you so much for sharing your experience! ❤️
Nothing changes at Hermes. We had the same experience in Paris in 2011 😂 we saw many bags being shown, but immediately they were packed up when we approached to see it!!! I will never shop at Hermes.
Wow, that’s not cool. Thanks for sharing your story! ❤
This is where it becomes extremely “cloudy”! Was the reason they could not offer you the refused Garden Party because it was on someone else’s longtime wishlist?… and they were next in line to be offered it?…the real issue is that whether they truly “snubbed” you or not…you FELT SNUBBED!!! And that’s unacceptable!!! I don’t play…firstly, I have no boutique in my area, and secondly I buy preloved. Yes, I know I’m paying higher than retail, but I’m not purchasing things I don’t want, and I’m getting the exact item, color, and size that I want. Maybe it’s my “new math” but it’s how I justify purchasing these lovely items that I love!!!
So sad that this was not the celebratory experience you had hoped for!!!!😞
I don't think the Garden Party was in someone else's wishlist because it was offered to an American tourist couple who walked in. I asked for the sales associate to find out if I can buy it while that couple was still in the store but had turned down the bag. So, definitely not saved for a regular client. I would totally buy pre-loved and have bought pre-loved Hermès, but I'm hesitant to buy them even from reputable sellers because of super fakes. Especially for BKC, which are highly copied and faked, I'm afraid to buy them second hand unless I can be assured exactly who bought it and how it's available for sale on secondary market. The best method would be to buy it from a close friend whom you know if legit and have bought from the store. I was disappointed because I really wanted to celebrate and mark my 60th birthday and our wedding anniversary with something tangible (the running joke in our family is that I forget everything unless I can touch it and I tend to remember places we went to by nice things I've bought at the location!) 😂. That said, this is definitely a first world problem and I really can't complain. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Thank you for such a lovely story! I said “no” to entire brand and I have no regrets 😊 There are so many good brands where I can find amazing products and be treated with respect.
I'm not quite there, yet ,to say no to the entire brand, but I was pretty close to saying it until I went to the other Hermes store in Berlin. Thanks for watching!
I don’t understand the craziness with people wanting to buy Hermes. I did a similar trip as you and I was just enjoyed the places. Not obsessed with buying things. It’s better to have experiences than things. I would never let someone greet me like that. I just buy as I am leaving in the duty free shop. Crazy.
I think you didn't hear me say that I prioritized touring first and went to the stores when we had time and happened to be in the area. I don't remember a lot of the places we visit especially so many places look similar after you go from one city to another (old age memory, hahaha - sometimes I can look at a picture of me in a place and don't remember being there, 😂). That said, I remember all the times I bought something fancy, and I remember walking around with the fancy thing I bought even if the rest of my outfit looks crappy. I makes me happy like a kid with a new toy. That said, I'm 61, it's silly to be wanting things to make me silly happy, I guess.
Love the scarf. I’ve never heard of Baby Birkin with strap???!!! Thank you for sharing your experience in Europe 😊
I was shocked to see such a cute Birkin! It must be real since she had it at the Hermes store with all the sales associates who would have said something if it was a fake! She said it was the most useful bag she's owned and she absolutely loves it. I totally want that bag! hahaha! Thanks for watching and commenting! 😘
I cannot imagine begging a brand to purchase from them 🤨 I could never 😳
hmmmm.... I never thought of myself as begging for a bag, but rather thought of asking for a bag to purchase and calling them out when I saw a disprepancy. That said, I can see how it can seem that way. If I was really begging for a bag, I think I would have bought a lot more to show that they should sell a bag to me since I'm spending a lot. I only wanted what I went to buy and nothing more. Clearly that wasn't enough, but I'm not going to spend on things I don't want to buy just to get a bag. I would never beg for anything other than to beg God to give me strength to help with my ailing parents (which I have done last year). Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. I didn't know I came off sounding that way.
They likely have tons of bags available but are playing games with people; what a silly policy.. unbelievable.
What I don’t understand is how all the other luxury brands have recovered their inventory amount from the pandemic, but Hermes is still limited in their bag inventories. Shouldn’t they have gotten their operations back in order? No matter…. They definitely know how to market and create a buzz around their products. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤️
Why are these expensive purses NEVER closed? Do they not stay closed? They look so clunky and sloppy. Personally, I can understand paying a lot of money for something you really love. I guess these purses just don’t look very good to me. They look like old lady purses. They don’t look functional or sleek. I understand the allure of the exclusive, but this is not something I particularly think is worth the trouble.
hahahaha! I don't know why these expensive purses are not shown closed. I think, for Hermes Kelly or Birkin (I don't own them), it's because they are difficult to completely close and open. I don't close my bags (both expensive and cheap) unless I'm worries that the contents will spill out during driving or if I'm going through a crowded places. Otherwise, it's just easier for me to have access to the bag with it opened. ❤
Hahaha, i thought I was the only one who thought they looked old lady and I’m an old lady. The prices are the price of a small car and you don’t have to put up with that nonsense. 🤗🐨
I'm so sorry Maggie you were treated that way. There's just things in life that are not worth it.
Thank you. It irritated me at first when it happened, but I was never hurt emotionally. It's a bag and I've been through a lot worse (when I was growing up in the 70's, someone throw rocks at our house since we were the only Asians in the neighborhood). It takes a lot more to hurt my spirit. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
Those rich people doesn't live forever...who knows what lawsuit brings to Hermes...company maybe crys long long time...Hermes stuff shows very bad side...
Unbelievable 🤔
You were discriminated - it's simply as that. If I was treated like that I wouldn't spend a dime on anything made by Hermes, just on principle.
I didn’t want to buy anything from him and left and bought from another store where the SA was very friendly and helpful. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
I like your hair! ❤
Thank you for your kind words! 😘
I like the picture hanging in your background more than anything Hermes sells! Just beautiful! Your hair, the flowers everything is a complete vibe. 😍😍😍
Thank you so much!!! ❤
I have gone into my Hermes store in overalls and a t-shirt and had no problem with the staff. I did build a relationship with my SA and I purchased some scarves, which I love so much, and other items then I was offer a Birkin. I now have 2 and they are truly my dream bags which I totally love. I always love going into my favorite store and I’ve never had any problems with the staff.
I don't have any problems in my local Hermès store either. I've bought scarves, bags and other things and my SA has always been lovely. That said, I've never been offered a quota bag. And now, I haven't been to the local store in over a year and a half. Thanks for watching and sharing your story! 😘
Thanks for sharing. The scarf suits you very much 😊
Thanks for watching! I love this shawl too! Hermès makes great looking shawls and scarves. ❤️
I refuse to play their game. You either want my business or you don’t. You can’t force me to buy crap I really don’t want before ‘allowing’ me to buy a Birkin. Hermes can keep it all.
I totally get it. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
So sorry this happened to you. So glad you made this video to warn others
Thanks for watching! ❤️
These stories are crazy..I cant believe how patient you all are.. I just buy my Hermes from Vestiaire or Fashionphile or order online.. if I go spend my hard earned money I dont want to beg..I want a nice experience… so sorry you went through all that..
Thanks. I’ve bought Hermes from all those places as well as EBay authenticate. I was hoping to buy from the store in Europe while traveling. No biggie…. I bought a great speedy 20b which I love to use all the time! ❤
If it were me, I would have walked out of the store. Why did you allow yourself to be insulted and disrespected? I don't get why people bow to Hermes knowing the games they play to make them desperate for their bags.
In retrospect, I should have left when he said he couldn’t sell me a bag that the other customer didn’t want. I think i must have thought that they had bags in the inventory in the back and I’ve already spent almost half an hour waiting. Also, my heart was set on buying one of Hermes bags (non quota) that I’ve been eyeing for past few years as a commemoration of our trip to Europe. You get sort of sucked into the process when you have a goal of buying something you’ve set your heart on for months. But you’re absolutely right, hind sight is always 20-20. Thanks for watching and commenting! ❤️
After 2 years and a trip to France I gave up and bought from a reseller. I have bought a few things that I really wanted but to me luxury shopping is how I am treated at Chanel not at Hermes.
I get it. I have a friend who went twice to Paris (for business) and tried to get leather appointments at Hermes and couldn't. I think a lot of people would rather go shop at resellers and avoid the whole shopping experience stress. I've bought things from resellers too at much lower prices than retail. These were not quota bags though. Thanks for watching & sharing your thoughts!
Of course you were snubbed. As a POC, I'm always torn between "I'll show them! I can buy ANYTHING in this store!!" OR "I'll NEVER buy from this company after being treated so poorly!" Bottom line: these companies need us consumers more than we need them. If no one buys this stuff, they go out of business. The games are old and boring. At my age (64) I'm over the "luxury brand" stuff. I wear what I like, high or low, from Gap to Chanel.
Absolutely right that these companies (non-essential item companies) need us more than we need them. I'm not over luxury brand since I still wear my luxury bags and jewelry because I love wearing them. That said, most of my clothing are either from Target/uniqlo (and yes, Costco!) and majority from consignment shops since I made a resolution (made a video 😉). At 61, I, like you, don't care what other people think about how I look. I buy things because I want to for myself. I had planned, prior to the trip, to buy a bag from Hermès as a celebration. I think I was focused on trying to achieve that. I should have walked out when they said they couldn't sell me the bag the other couple had rejected, but, again, I thought they had a bag in the back that I could buy. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. 😘
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie Exactly! ETA: when I said I'm "over the 'luxury brand" stuff" I meant, for me, I'm over shopping for/adding to my collection of said brands. I really don't need or want any more bags, shoes, accessories, SLG, etc. Because my motto is always quality over quantity, I'm fully saturated. Those luxury items still perform beautifully. (Well...maybe one more cashmere cardigan LOL). Happy shopping and I hope you acquire ALL that you wish for. Thanks for your posts :)
I don't understand why people want to go through the Hermes "journey". I wouldn't give them a penny.
I’m not on Hermes journey. I just wanted to buy a non-quota bag and some other things to celebrate a milestone. I’m happy I bought a great bag from Lv and some Hermes things I wanted to buy for a long time at the other Hermes store. I like their products. That said, I know what you mean. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤️
It’s like being made a fool of, you aren’t being picky at all, you can sense you are not being treated properly x I would imagine more ppl have this story than those who got lucky and got a bag. Maybe they are too embarrassed to share bc they felt they weren’t “good enough” to score the bag. I love the belt and hope you enjoy wearing it
I think you're right that more people may have my kind of story than the onces where they get lucky and get a bag. But, I think this can happen many other luxury brand store. A friend of mine was in retail clothing and she said that you can never tell who's going to spend money and who's not based on how they're dressed. Wise words. I absolutely love the belt - It seems to wear better than my Ferragamo gold belt which got tarnished within a year of purchasing it even when I only wear it for special occasions. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie I don’t like this judgement on what you wear, actual insanely wealthy don’t waste money on stupid overpriced clothing w logos dripping, thats pretend wealth dressing. I don’t care either way what someone wears but I don’t think these SA should be so judgemental that personally makes my skin crawl. I really enjoyed hearing your perspective and experience x
You WERE treated terribly by Hermes. I would truly be done with them and as an Hermes Customer, I am done with them and their attitude. There are too, too many beautiful handbags made, out there in the wild. Shame on them.
I’m okay and almost forgot about the whole thing until I made the video and thought about it again. Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤️
Bag offers only after you purchase your items. Then voila, the bag shipment just arrived :D
😂😂😂. Thanks for watching! 😘
I live in Atlanta GA and I wouldn’t even consider walking into a Hermes store. I don’t need the stress or the narcissistic behavior of the sales associates or company policy. I have plenty other high-end fashion houses who love to have my business.
It's interesting how Hermès sales tactics, which makes it seem like these bags are so hard to get, makes some people want them more and others turn away from them. I like the quality of their bags.... that said, I also like the quality of Longchamp and Tory Burch bags too. I just feel "fancier" when I wear my luxury designer bags (even when I'm in shorts and t-shirts). Thanks for watching and sharing! 😘
I refuse to give a brand my hard earned money with all the stories about their treatment. I will say this too (being Asian) I feel discriminated at times and not treated the same. Thank you for this amd sharing and hoping the lawsuit happens because its ridiculous to make other feels less than worthy.
The other couple who were dressed really nicely were of Vietnamese descent. They were really nicely dressed and she had a Kelly 25. But I know what you mean. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
I would never bend by back to a brand. Hermes might be good quality but the only interesting thing about them are their scarfs in my opinion. Maybe also knitwear.
I love their scarves and shawls! Also, Evelyne is one of my most used bag. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Love your scarf! So sorry this happened to you!
Thank you! ❤️
Some people who got birkins and kellies said they were dressed head to toe in Hermes when they walked into the store. So now you also have to look like a walking advertisement along with buying things you don't want or need
One of the couples was wearing a Kelly 25! hahaha! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
This stuff happens a lot in Germany. Specialy in Berlin where a lot of rich foreigners come and go. This has happened to me while buying cosmetics, bikes, gadgets. The sales associates tell you to wait for half an hour and then ignore you while they serve some old German couple. 🙄
I didn't know that! The people he was serving were American tourists (I spoke to the couple who refused the Garden Party 🙂). The other young couple dressed in head to toe designer clothing were of Vietnamese descent (not sure if they live in Vietnam or are from one of the Western countries though). That said, they were much more stylish than me and my husband. I'm very comfortable in my own skin and don't give a sh*t what other people think of how I dress, so I won't be changing the way I dress for any luxury brand companies. Thanks for watching and commenting! 😘
There is an element of secrecy and unfairness with Hermes that is beyond frustrating. You shouldn’t have to leave an establishment feeling confused, wronged or slighted. On another note, your Prague pics were beautiful! It’s on my list of places to visit.
You definitely should visit Prague! It’s one of the most beautiful cities I’ve visited - almost as beautiful as Venice. We biked around the city and walked everywhere. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
It's called company wide extortion, seems to legal when applied to handbags. I never beg a company to take my money. The belt and bracelet you were "offered" is part of the game. Hermes should allow salesmen/ladies to get a commission on the sale of all bags. Greed, greed, greed!
I do not like the Hermes shopping experience overall. I have purchased a few items over the years, all with zero effort to be offered a bag - they were just things I really liked, such as silver jewelry, a watch, couple of belts, etc. I have never made a Wish List. I shop luxury because it is fun, and overall I see Hermes as not a fun experience. Chanel gets the bulk of my shopping money since I have several wonderful SA’s that always alert me to new treasures that come in. Add to that some VCA and Louis Vuitton thrown in here and there, sometimes DIOR and Cartier. All are fun for me.
When I was in the south of France last summer I did quite a bit of shopping; one stand out experience was Lanvin in Monte Carlo. I was outside admiring the window display and the sales associate stepped out and graciously invited me in. She was so warm and welcoming, and 5 minutes later I walked out with my first Lanvin bag :D EXCELLENT customer service that made it a very enjoyable experience.
I never get that feeling at Hermes. So I don’t allocate much time or money to them.
You are smart! I love all those brand too, and I think Chanel has the prettiest bags, but I don't like their quality now. I have a friend who loves Chanel bags and have bought a few in last couple of years, and they showed wear so quickly - so, I'm reluctant to spend so much money for it now. What a wonderful experience you had at Lanvin! They make great quality stuffs!
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie reports of declining quality definitely concerns me with Chanel. Knock wood I have had no problems so far. But the continued price increases also irritate me greatly. I realize price increases are inevitable, but Chanel has gone too far to the extreme. But I always fall in love with something, so it is a hard habit to break.
But I am now exploring other lesser known brands as well, such as Lanvin and Bulgari. I have just one bag from each, but I am impressed so far. The experience in Lanvin Monte Carlo was very nice. Too bad there are no boutiques anywhere near where I live (northern CA). There is one in Las Vegas, so hopefully I can visit that one soon.
My sister recently bought a Bulgari bag and it is gorgeous! She got it for an amazing price second hand at a local estate sale! 💕
I have wanted a black Kelly 25 for ages knowing I would never be able to purchase one preloved. I don’t know if St Louis even had Hermes. Anyway, today I received a beautiful dupe bag from Mille. It has everything but the Hermes name and is constructed really well with very nice small grain pebbling leather. It smells like heaven. When I look at it and carry it around it feels
OMG, I've been seeing Mille come up on my Instagram feed lately all the time! Good to know that the quality is good. Thanks for sharing! ❤
I would just walk out. So sad.
I was so close to walking out when I saw the SA helping the second customers (the American tourist couple who walked in after me). Thanks for watching and commenting! 😘
Wednesday Martin describes the M.O. of Hermes in the book ‘Primates of Park Avenue.’
Absolutely! She got one and she said that she realizes what their game is but still wanted the birkin. Once she got it, she said she wasn’t pushed off the street by another woman. 😂😂😂😂. It all seem ridiculous- power play by women through their birkin! But I know there’s some truth to it for some people. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
Could you share information about the scarf you are wearing?
It's Hermes shawl called "plume un fete". I made a video unboxing this item - czcams.com/video/5O_DlTdTwSg/video.html. I love the color and quality of Hermès scarves and shawls. 🙂 Thanks for watching!
My understanding is that they won't offer you the bag, even if it was being rejected by the first couple, because they probably had more customers on their list that they were going to offer it to. I just went into the Hermes in Costa Mesa (not my home boutique) and asked if they had any bags, just to see if I could get lucky. I got the same answer: Oh, we sold out of everything; we had a shipment yesterday and everything sold out; we never know when we're going to get a shipment, etc, etc. They're lies. They wouldn't sell me a bag because they don't know me and I don't have a relationship with any of their SAs. I'm sure they were selling bags to other customers there. That's just the nature of the game. The SA said he could sell me a wallet or a Rodeo. That was all they were willing to sell me.
So I came back to my home boutique and bought some fine jewelry from my SA and updated my wish list with her. Hopefully she'll be able to get me a bag soon.
Great experiment! Love it! I hope you get a quota bag of your dreams soon too! I just don't like that there seems to be an unwritten rule to buy other things in order to buy what we really want to buy. But, I keep playing "my game", and I'm sure I'll continue to fail to buy a quota bag from the store. That said, I don't really care. Don't get me wrong, I would be thrilled to be offered one of these bags just because how hard they're to get, but I'm not holding my breath. At this point, it's kind of a running joke with my husband and me to see if they'll ever offer me one of these bags when I ask for them at the store. At the end of the day, they're just things, and I'm having a great time just trying to see if it'll happen. 😂 Thanks so much for sharing your story! 😘
They saved their inventory for their usual customers, could be the end users or buy and resales. They live on commission and have to meet the quota, therefore, they don’t just sell a bag but building the relationship to those who would buy things that other than the bag to make up the targeted sales. I am pretty sure international they assign bags to the salesperson. They may not get to have a bag to sell every month.
Actually they don’t get much commission for bags.
You’ve mentioned information that I’ve been reading in this comment section. I’ve seen several comments mentioning that sales associate are assigned bags to sell and they don’t sell other sales person’s inventory. This was news to me! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
One good thing is that shawl looks beautiful on you! I couldn’t take my eyes off of you.
Thank you! ❤️
Hello, I just wanted to say, I cannot effort an Hermes bag, BUT I would never ever tolerate such behavior in any store!
You have a lot of patience, but this is just rude.They aren't even worth selling you the 'cheaper' stuff.
Greetings from tiny Belgium, Inge 😘
Thank you! It was frustrating moment in otherwise a wonderful trip. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
I wish you had walked out when he said no bags with the Garden Party just sitting pretty there in front of you, rejected by the other customer and they tell you it’s not for sale is just ridiculous, mind boggling, rude af and disrespectful 🤯
Hindsight being 20/20, I wish I walked out too when he said that I couldn't buy the Garden Party the others didn't want. But, at that point, I knew they had other bags in the back he wasn't selling me and I spent so much time at that store waiting..... That said, I came to my senses and walked out without buying and went to the other Hermes store to buy it from the nicer SA. Thanks for sharing your thoughts! 😘
I have a sincere suggestion. If you are a person that has the means to be able to afford an Hermes bag, do something truly unique instead. There are plenty of amazingly talented leather craftsman. Find one. Give them an idea of what you want and have your own bag made to your personal specifications.
You have a very god point about finding a leather craftsman and having something made. It's not easy to find someone like that where I live and when I travel, I don't stay in one area long enough to find great leather craftsmen. But the real problem is that I'm not talented enough to create my own design. Knowing me, it would totally look awful. I've had a leather jacket made when I was in Argentina, and I designed it. Unfotunately, even though it fits be beautifully, I wish that I had made different design decisions. Thanks for watching and sharing your ideas! ❤
I would NEVER beg a retailer to take my money. I’m not a sheep 🐑 and so many other beautiful and affordable options . Not a popular opinion but I think they are kinda ugly, forgive me. You look very classy, don’t buy Hermes anymore.
Thank you. I didn’t think I was begging, but rather trying to buy, but it must have come off that way since a few people mentioned that. I love their bags and find them very functional, but I know exactly what you mean - there are certainly lots of other bags that are fabulous (I’m obsessed with my new Longchamp le piage xs!). Thank you again and sharing your thoughts! 😘
I have many scarves BUT if I were treated that way I would wash my hands of them and every time I got a compliment about a scarf I would tell my story.
hahaha! If every Hermès SA interaction I had was like that, I wouldn't even buy anything from them and give away all my scarves. I've always had great customer service at my local Hermès and the SA at the other Berlin store was lovely to me. 🙂. I was more annoyed than hurt. It takes a lot more to hurt this old broad! hahaha! 😂Thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
After watching this type of video about Hermes. I now realise that they do this to their customers to make them determined to have the product no matter how they are treated. Woman want the brand to accept them as being worthy. I think the customer should move on and stop wanting their acceptance. The customer is paying to be demeaned. This is how I see it.
Why pay to be disappointed and demoralized?? Hermes does manufacture beautiful scarves. bags, and clothing, but is it worth emotional scars and humiliation? Not in my book. Find another place to shop, and / or new ways to pursue your dreams and find beauty. Some actually exist free of charge also. Leave snobbery and psychological abuse behind.
I have several scarves and shawls from Hermès that I bought both from the store and from resale market and I LOVE them. My local SA has always been very pleasant and friendly. I didn't buy anything from that store for that reason and went to antoher store where I was treat nicely and bought the rest of my things there. 🙂 Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Which strap in that on the speedy 20?
It’s the strap from the multi pochette! It’s a much better scale and size than the strap the bag comes with. I use the speedy 20 strap for my Estrela NM tote - to use it as a wide crossbody to support the heavier weight of the tote bag. Thanks for watching and commenting! ❤️😘
Usually I would not have taken the time for a story about rich people. BUT you seam sweet and not snob. I have to tell you your grey hair are beautiful. One question: was your husband in his kaki short with you? if yes maybe he is the reason. LOL
Do we really need these expansive articles? I live in Italy and go to a bag maker in my region , I purchase very well made bags plus I know the person that design them and see the people working in the back. I love that!
hahaha! You make me LOL!!!! YES, IT'S MY HUSBAND AND HE WAS WEARING HIS $12 SAM'S CLUB SHORTS! HAHAHAHA! We definitely don't need any of these expensive things. They are things, afterall. I LOVE the quality of leather in Italy and Argentina! I had a leather jacket made in Argentina (they made me a custom jacket in 2 days!). I have never seen them make bags in Italy though..... that said, I've only been to tourists places like Rome, Florence, Scility and Venice. I would have loved have seen the places you're talking about! Thanks for watching and sharing! ❤
They are a shop... they pay rent for.... having no inventory? If so, wouldn't a pop up stall then be enough for them to display and sell small items like belts and scarves,etc.? Bulls**t! I don't believe their lies about having no attractive inventory....
I think you may be right. How's it possible that non of the 3 stores had any bags for me especially when I visited them multiple times? What are the odds? 🤔. It's a good thing that I don't rely on Hermès for necessary survival things such as food and clothing. 😂
agreed. how could a leather goods business has nothing to sell.
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie Haha, good point 😄
I shop in luxury brand stores and I've noticed this behavior frequently and I wonder the same. I've been at the other end where I would be offered something, decline the item and I've noticed a similar thing going on around me. One time I asked my SA whom I have a long relationship w/ and it seems there is something going on. I didn't get much of a response but I wonder if it may have something to do w/ the other clients being from out of town? I don't agree w/ this. You are such a lovely lady I don't see why anyone would make a fuss for whatever reason. We travel and sure we want things to remember the trip by or whatever. All in all, I think this does cause negative feelings and isn't ok. I will say it is not all brands or not all stores. I don't get it either.
Thank you. The other couple who turned down the garden party were tourists from America. I spoke to them after the whole thing was over. It’s a good thing that I had a nice SA at the other Hermes store. I’m old and have a very comfortable life and have nothing to prove to anyone. This was someone I wanted to buy to commemorate a milestone. That said, all the pictures from the trip reminds me that we had a fabulous time! Thanks for watching and sharing your experience. 😘
Just found your channel. You look stunning! I remember when Oprah said Hermes treated her so wrong years ago.
I remember when she was treated poorly and it was a big news at the time! So glad you found my channel! Thanks for sharing your thoughts! ❤️
what do you think about second hand market. Japan offers very nice second hand Hermes bags .
where are the good places to shop in japan
I have a few from second hand market and would definitely buy from second hand market. This was more for celebrating milestone during a trip with a purchase. Thanks for watching! ❤️
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie, also what about delvaux bags? quality is through the roof! and it is not as common as burkin or kelly
@@vickapika22those are nice but not my style. Something about them seem a little too masculine for me personally
@@vickapika22 Delvaux is beautiful and the quality is amazing. I remember seeing them in Belgium a few years ago, but I've never seen on in my city. I'll have to see! Thanks!
I would have asked for the garden party in a calm, factual way. If the SA still denies existence of bags then I would have clarified that there clearly are bags available but just not for someone like me. got it. Bye. It’s obviously a form of elitism being practiced.
I don't think I have the guts to do that! hahaha! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
What a terrible experience. Your money is a good as anyone’s else’s. I don’t have anything from Hermes and honestly, your experience would put me off. Enjoyed the video. Xx
Thanks for watching and commenting! 😘
China is probably the easiest place to score the birkin, albeit at a sales tax, Chinese SA are very transparent about what and how much you need to buy and what kind of stock they hv, vs the elusive attitude of the European SA. I got my H quota bags in Asia, 2 Kelly 1 birkin and 1 mini C, back in 2017 it was much easier, they just told me to buy a gold CDC bangle, I bought it and within like a week or two I was called my Kelly has arrived….same situation for the other QB I got…..I’m lucky I got out of this game when they got ridiculously difficult during and post covid …..
I heard China is very competitive too. Wasn’t it there that a man stood outside Hermes store with a demonstration sign frustrated that he spent so much money without getting my a bag? From everything I’ve learned from the comments at this post, it definitely seems like the process was much better years ago. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience! 😘
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie competitive in the sense of spending requirement but they are well stock on their side products and straight forward about what they hv and the spending limit for the bag you want~~~ everyone know the game so for the European SA to pretend there is no such thing is ….. I don’t like to deal with what I don’t know about. My SA used to show me the stock list on her hand held whenever I’m approaching my target spending and she told me it’s way easier to score QB if you willing to buy their jewellery which I happened to find its design very wearable…..
Enjoyed hearing about your experience as I'm reaching the same goalpost age and beginning to maybe appreciate a Birkin. I've actually been lucky and have had good service in the Hermes stores, and notably in the main Paris store on the occasions I've been there (most recently in 2018). But the changes from 15 years ago in attitude are notable - previously I was able to walk in and buy 2 bags for my cousin in Paris and in Milan, a bag for myself. Things have changed. Since the pandemic I've been snubbed in Chanel and have encountered a less patient Hermes sales person in my home city. Unfortunately I expect to be snubbed like you were in Hermes if I do happen to ask for a bag - which should not be the case nor tolerated. You have every right to have been annoyed at the snub. I don't understand why stores condone treating customers this way.
I wasn’t into luxury bags until my children went off to college over a decade ago. And at that time, I bought my first luxury bag which was a canvas LV bag. That said, I know that the pandemic changed the availability of these bags. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience! ❤️
Also just to add you might find you were lucky not getting the bag bc if Hermes loses their case the resale value on the birkin and Kelly’s will drop hugely. You can they get exactly the bag you want at a good price not elevated on the second hand market
hahaha! perhaps you're right! Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Hermes is a disgrace and people need to wake up and stop embarrassing themselves
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
My daughter and I were killing time waiting for the big AFL footy game to start at the MCG.
We walked over to the 'paris' end of Collins St Melb. Ignored in our fav shoe shop, sales assistants turned their heads and were busy talking to each other. Until my daughter said, "Oh mum, they have my shoe's!" I said, deliberately (😅), no darling, they aren't your shoes, sweetheart. They are mine! You borrowed them and forgot to return them, so I had to buy another pair!!!!!
$2,500 each pair! (I've got a friend in the trade).
Well, the 2 sales ppl almost knocked us over in the rush! To little to late, lol 😂.
I've got another story similar for another day. It's a beauty!
LOVE, LOVE, LOVE!!!! 😂 Thanks for watching this video and sharing your story - I agree this type of thing isn't exclusive to Hermès. ❤😘
Happened to my daughter and I at Louboutin. Never again. Went to Gucci. They were awesome.....
@@victoriawinter8387 it is so unfortunate and unnecessary 😪 😒.
I have two lovely Hermes sales Assistants, one at Park Ave NY and another at the Goethestrasse in Frankfurt, neverthelessl, if I ever experience such employee behavior I will be sending a letter to their main office in Paris. Don't be shy, do it !!
I would feel the same way and yes I would have said xxx
I thought so! I knew you would have said something to them too! 😀
The sales associate have their own set of bags for their own clients. I believe they have to trade with another SA in order to get you what you want. That happened to me when I was offered a Birkin but I prefer a Kelly. So I said “No, thanks”. Then I get a call from my SA and she said I have a Kelly for you, come pick it up tomorrow. So I did.
I knew that was the case for quota bags but I was asking for non-quota bags and I let them know that I realize the quota bags are for their regular customers. Congratulations on your Kelly! ❤️
The bags are lovely and I know so many want them, but I wish y’all wouldn’t bother. This discriminatory treatment is trash.
I’ve had this kind of thing happen to me in LV when I first started buying luxury about a decade ago. It can be individual dependent. It was an irritation at that store but I received great treatment at the other Hermes. If I got this kind of experience at all Hermes, I definitely wouldn’t buy anything from the brand no matter how much I liked an item. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤
I think you shouldn’t take the Hermes experience personally. It’s clear there was a waiting list official or unofficial for the black garden party. I mean it is a very desirable bag in black. So as someone else said they keep it for the local customers whom they have built up relationship with. They really don’t care about the tourists. Also I’m wondering do all Hermes stores have access to your buying history because you clearly have one. So maybe next time mention it. You did really well to refuse that other bag. So be proud that your self esteem kicked in and you left. I am from an English speaking country and my experience is they know you’re a tourist and are not interested in pleasing us. !!🥰
Thank you Rose! I don't take anything like this personally. They're trying to make a living, and this is not a big deal in my life. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Yes, I have had that experience, although I do have a couple of quota bags. I buy what I want from who I think may be sincere.
I was successful in Paris ( but eventually) got lucky, The bags are too expensive to play games and purchase non desired bags or other items.
They know what most people want and really Need to sell other items to make a profit. Just know that going in and select wisely!.
You had this experience too?! I agree with you - these bags are too expensive to buy something that I don’t really love. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience! ❤
I refuse to shop these brand stores. Just too snotty.
❤. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts!
I’m sorry that happened to you. This is why I decided not to play the game and get the bag from a reseller. Some of the comments here are unnecessarily rude however.
Thank you. I was quite surprised at the attacks I got on my character from this video. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts. 😘
Hi Maggie, that´s a shame, but I guess that's how it works. I also had a very lovely experience in the Kuhdamm shop. I was shown many bags from the showcases that I couldn't buy. That was said directly. I had champagne and a very nice conversation about my ˋJourney´ in my home boutique. I forced !! myself not to buy anything. Why would I have done that? 😉
I'm glad you had a wonderful experience at the shops! I thought al the other shops within that department store had fantastic customer service too! I was offered water at Louis Vuitton. ☺️
I’m so sorry that you had to endure this awful treatment. I would be done with the brand all together. I don’t have time for this foolishness, so I got my bags on the resale market.
I think this was the most frustrating experience I've had in all my years of buying luxury bags. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
The Hermes business model is set to cater to their established client base with long standing history of purchases. Hermes has ALWAYS had an exclusive clientele. They usually have appointments with their regular client advisors or a manager. The new client advisors usually have to meet quotas with those clients who aren't as established. They also have to establish themselves and not everyone is successful. They don't cater to everyone. It's one of those "We reserve the right to refuse service" conditions to keep their items exclusive.
I think you may be right. And as a tourist, I probably had very little chance of buying any non quota bags. Thanks for watching and sharing your info! ❤️
i would never ever shop there again
I’ve also been dissed at LV a long time ago - I called out the SA and spoke to the manager, and the manager clarified why the SA was not friendly (they thought I was asking questions about the bag to make fake bags). Since then I’ve had great service at LV. Some of the comments on this video have explained what may have occurred. It may be that they had their own clients to offer or that each SA have their own bags to sell. Who knows. Thank goodness I had good experience at the other Hermes store. But if I didn’t, I definitely wouldn’t go back. Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! 😘
Wow!
This lady has a class!
Loss for Hermes!
You are too kind! Thank you! 😊
I totally agree!
The SA s are allocated bags to sell to their clients. That SA may not have had any allocated to him. He could have made a deal with the other SA to sell the bag to you but maybe they dont get along or he had nothing to trade.
Whaat?! I had no idea that SAs are allocated non-quota bags! So, does that mean that if a customer happens to be assigned to an SA who's used up all his allocation, that customer wouldn't be allowed to buy bags even though there's bags available at the store? That seems very restrictive especially for non-quota bags. I asked for non-quota bag styles because I knew that the quota bags are reserved for their regular customers. Thanks for watching and sharing your insight! 👍
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie i haven’t been told that directly but I’m pretty sure that that is what started happening after covid. Even non quota bags are not displayed in the store anymore except for some of the men’s collection that nobody wants. I have been trying to get a Halzan for over a year. In 2019 you could walk into any boutique and try those on and purchase. Whenever i ask my SA about bags he gets visibly anxious and i have never brought up a quota bag. He did ask me once if i would be interested in a Jypsiere. I do like my SA. I went through several before I found one that i liked. I would just go in and buy something small and see how i liked them until i felt that i had a good repore . European boutiques will rarely sell bags to Americans unless they drop major and i mean major money all at once. You need to find a boutique that you like to shop in and just go there. Ideally local to you but if you travel a lot it could be in say Hawaii or lasvegas or even a European city as long as you can be somewhat regular. They prioritize local clients but if you make it clear that this is your “home store” they will treat you like you are local. Paris does have a lottery system in place that you can take a shot at getting an appointment with, but it is a long shot. Having a Parisian purchase history does seem to help “win” the lottery. I really dont think it had to do with how you were dressed or who you are. They just have there systems in place and wont deviate. You cant expect to break through that in one session. Since you did purchase in that boutique next time you go back make an appointment with the SA that helped you. I bet you get offered a bag. May not be a quota bag but i think they will take care of you
@@lienecarter6411 Really great information! Thank you for your insight! I may try that later this year when I go back to Europe. 😊
Great information! Thanks for sharing! 😘
The salesperson was caught telling a lie. And he just wanted to stick with that by not selling that garden party. So sorry to hear this bad experience. Hermes has strange sales practice, their sales team seems to behave erratically - some are very nice while others behave so snootily - more so than the customers. Luckily Hermes handbags are so nice, guess Hermes is one of those retail stores that will do best with AI serving customers 😬😬
I totally agree. I felt that he was caught in a lie and had to cover himself. I literally had to almost force him to check the "back". hahaha! So, I think he came out with the most undesirable bag in their shop to see if I'd buy it. AI service customers - 🤣! I wish their practices were more uniform too. Thanks for watching!
Sorry for your bad experience😢, such a turnoff to be treated that way! The bigger Hermes boutique is real close to the KaDeWe though, it’s within max 30 minutes walking distance
That's the one I went to after KaDeWe experience. It didn't seem bigger to me, but the sales associate was much more attentive and nice. That said, she said they had no bags and asked me to check back later. At least, she didn't brush me off. Thanks for watching and sharing! ❤
Hermes and KARDASHIANS…..YUK!
Hmm I think it’s store specific and SA specific. Since I haven’t had that experience - so sorry to hear your terrible experience 😢
It definitely may be store specific and/or SA specific. I had a great SA at the other Hermes store. Thanks for watching! ❤
Until I retired from selling designer fashion there is no way I could go home go to bed feel good about myself if I had played with peoples feelings like the staff in Hermes staff.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! ❤️😘
It is silly in fact to be that desperate for an ugly bag that costs a fortune. Not only their bags are ugly but literally everything of theirs is ugly, shoes, belts etc. heats off to their marketing team they made normal people loose their minds literally begging to take their money. No offense but it is sick in the way 🥴
I like Ferragamo and Balenciaga. People can hate Balenciaga all they want. Several of their handbags are actually cute.
You did not play their game and by their rules. Their rules work because they’re still in business.
So True! ❤
Wonderful. I think I could really fib to myself that it is a real honest to God Kelly but I won’t!
Thanks for watching and sharing your thoughts! ❤️
I went to Hermes in Hawaii and the associate there was very rude to me as well:(...I'm so sorry😢
I've had great experiences and bad experiences at Hermès in Hawaii too. I like a SA in Alamoana Hermes and have bought a few things from her, but nothing from the shop at Waikiki for the same reason. Thanks for watching! ❤️
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggieit was the Waikiki store!
Wow the comment section is quite awful... I hope you had a wonderful holiday abroad aside from this encounter! While I love the brand, and have had pleasant experiences, I am not one to ever side with a multi-million company when I hear of these stories. If you ever take the time to visit Japan, please visit their secondary market stores for Hermes pieces. I myself picked one up last fall.
Thank you so much. I was quite shocked to read some of the very mean comments. That said, I'm on social media talking about stupidly expensive items no one really needs, so I get it. However, for me, whenever I don't agree with a content creator or can't relate to them, I just don't watch them - life is too short and why live in the negative energy space? We had a fabulous time on the Viking river cruise despite that fact that the river was too dried to cruise , and it was more like a small room hotel on a shallow river. My husband and I explored Prague and Berline on our own a lot and did group tours for other cities and towns along the Elbe River. I've been to preloved luxury shopping at Osaka a few years ago, but I wasn't into Hermes products then. Also, I'm afraid of buying a super fakes (I know Japan has strict laws, but there's no guarantee), and then leaving the country and having no recourse. I don't know Hermes quota bags well enough to discern whether they may be fake or not. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience! ❤
@@MyfavoritesWithMaggie Hi Maggie, That sounds like a fabulous trip! I am surrounded by men that purchase 10-50k watches, and they do not face the same amount of prejudice that luxury handbag lovers such as myself do. It's odd, isn't it? I do catch myself judging others for how they spend their money ($10,000 jet skis... I could never!), but I would never comment about it in real life or social media. It's not my place to police people and how they spend their money. Yes, you can never be sure about authenticity. I purchased both bags early on in my trip, and immediately submitted them for authentication at bababebi. They were both authentic. One was a newer quota bag from 2018, and the other, an Epsom Evelyne PM circa 2005 (it was in excellent condition! my fiance takes it to his workplace, family events, and various other errands).