Triple-T
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- čas přidán 13. 03. 2024
- #tyrellknifeworks
In today's Triple-T (tools, tips and talk) #175, we continue the Beginner Series with how to heat treat a knife.
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I love doing the heat treatment process. It’s nerve racking because of all the things that can go wrong. But a successful outcome is a great feeling.
I totally agree, it’s when the build comes to life! Thanks for watching, Erik!
What a great video ! This basically sums up everything it took myself nearly 2 years of testing and figuring out for myself in a 30min video. Absolutely well done and I´m sure this will be a great help for a lot of people !
Glad to hear you think so! Thanks for watching, Richard.
Incredibly helpful information. Thank you! I love this series of foundational skills all being in one easy to access location.
I’m glad it’s helpful! It’s been fun to make. ❤️
Great video Dennis! I like the tip about using salt. I appreciate you and all you do for the community.
I’m glad it was useful to you! Thanks for watching
Thanks for this. I think a lot of people will appreciate "translating" Dr. Thomas's book; it's very valuable information, but sometimes a bit hard to get through as a non-scientist.
Ha, yeah that a nice way to put it. It’s a great book, but most people want more direct steps and as a scientist I get Larrin doesn’t want to do that. I’m no scientist so I’m happy to dumb it down. 😜. Thanks for watching, Bryson.
Another great tutorial Denis!
You have a very good way of explaining things in easily understandable terms to people who may not be highly educated on the subject matter.
Keep up the great work!
Glad it was helpful! Thanks for watching.
Super cool video! Very informative and well explained. Thank you
Glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for watching, Steve.
Great video. Always learning. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for watching, Glenn!
Great down to earth content. TV has led me astray, lol. Sending blanks out for professional heat treating gives me confidence in the quality of the HT.
Yeah Forged in fire is very misleading and I do not agree with lots of things they say or do. But 75% of the viewers don’t know anything about this trade/craft. Let alone ever successfully made any legitimate knives. Tv will “dumb”things down and show anything to keep audiences interested….. I stopped watching 5+ years ago. Couldn’t hardly stand it anymore
Yeah, the stuff on FiF can definitely lead you down some wrong paths. It’s a game show and should be viewed as such. I just had a comment on another video that I was working the steel too cold. When I questioned him, he admitted to having no actual experience so is just regurgitating what he hears on FiF. (It was the silver katana build where I was keeping the steel between 1600F and 1700F because of the silver content.) 🙄
😳that’s funny but annoying at the same time. Not to knock anyone. but people don’t become experienced with things or at minimal do deep research before questioning others.
Thank you sir.
Thanks for following along!
Great video! Thank you. I always learn something new with every video of yours I watch!.
Awesome! Thank you!
Solid video per usual Dennis! This was helpful for me. I was reading New Jersey Steel Baron's guide on heat treating 80crv2 and was curious about the normalization cycles vs grain reduction. I need to rebuild my forge with a ribbon burner and a PID over using the heat gun, so I'll be giving your videos on that several views over the next few months.
Many people do confuse normalization and grain refinement. You won’t regret the PID and just having the temp available all the time is so nice! Thanks for watching.
I moved from my parents old house to an apartment. Haven’t been able to make a knife in a loooong time. My mom let me know recently that I can come work on stuff at the house whenever as long as she gets a hello and goodbye hug
Sounds like a good deal! You should take her up on that for sure! 😉. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks most definitely. Also great video. Got me all caught up so I don’t get too rusty!
Good run down, I endorse the book as well for anyone who works with steels.
Though the camera seems to have a love affair with your grinder :)
I know, I didn’t notice it until it was too late. Weird, the settings on the camera were same as always. 😕
Thanks again, Denis. I’m soaking in everything you post about beginning knifemaking. BTW…regarding sprinkling salt on your steel to determine temperature…I did that once. It left a bubble-pattern etch in the steel that took forever to get out. On the other hand, it did look cool, but wasn’t what I wanted for that knife.
Oh that’s interesting, I hadn’t heard that before. Probably best to put a test piece in beside your knife. Thanks for watching
Great video - tons of useful information! Really got me thinking of putting a thermocouple and/or a PID Controller in my forge. I'll have to watch your video on that next.
Once you put in the thermocouple at the very least, you’ll wonder why you didn’t do it earlier! 😉. Thanks for watching.
Good morning ❤
Good morning! Thanks for watching, Matt!
Great video Denis…when you shim temper in your 3 point jig, do you over correct or shim to straight?
You have to overcorrect. It usually takes a few rounds. I just did it with my Viking challenge sword. 😉. Thanks for watching, Jason.
Is DET Annealing necessary after the grain refinement cycles or can you go to the quenching after the grain refinement
While it’s not strictly necessary, you will get a point or so more hrc if you anneal first. Thanks for watching.
Do you temper the blade in the clamp or do you preheat the clamp before adding the blade to the tempering
You can temper the blade with the clamp attached. There's no need to preheat anything. Thanks for watching.
Thanks for video!
Please, explain me - why you recommend soak AEBL steel in 1350f (760 c) for 10 min befor austenitization?
It’s the recipe I’ve always used. I’m pretty sure it came from Larrin’s book. Thanks for watching.
What do you think about building an oil bath tempering oven as opposed to a conventional air tempering oven.
Honestly, I think it's a waste of time. Tempering in a kiln is super accurate and it's not like tempering does anything bad to the steel like create scale. The next best thing would be a liquid salt bath. That is probably the best process to use for heat treating, but it's kinda dangerous. I hope that helps. Thanks for watching.
I do have a question. I have had other makes tell me that HT should anneal first then normalize and grain refine before the quench. So your number 1 would be step 3 and your step 3 would be number 1. Does it matter in what order we do these steps? I am asking as I want to learn all I can. Thank you, love the videos.
They say anneal so it’s easy to grind. Sometimes I’ll leave my work in the forge when I’m done, turn the forge off and let it cool slowly as the forge cools. A lot of times I’ll just normalize after forging and forego the anneal then. The steel is soft enough to still grind easily. The anneal as the stage of the heat treat before quenching improves hardenability. This is per Dr Larrin Thomas’ book, Knife Engineering. I hope that helps explain. Thanks for watching.
Dennis, thank you for another excellent video! I have two novice questions:
1) you mentioned canola as alternative quench medium for 5160. Would motor oil or transmission oil work instead?
2) how is scratching a glass bottle for the hardness test?
Thank you again!
I’m glad the video was useful. 1) never, ever use motor oil. It’s full of dangerous cancer-causing chemicals when burnt and it’s a terrible quenchant. 2) no, glass isn’t very hard, you can scratch it with mild steel. Mild steel is around 45hrc. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworksDennis, thank you very much for your answers! Guess, I will invest in some canola oil then. 🙂
That camera really wants to focus on anything but the person talking. I think the most I yell at Forged In Fire is seeing people quench too hot; like you can look at steel and see the color, idk why so many people have a problem with it. I love when people use salt or magnets though, that makes it a lot harder to mess up. Mine have all come out hard and none have cracked in the quench or shattered when I've tested them. I really like those files and they are super helpful, even if they aren't exact; a rough idea is better than shooting in the dark. Thank you for making this series, its very helpful.
Yeah the camera was giving me grief in this video for some reason. 😕. I agree on the quenching too hot. It’s just the fact that they’re in a hurry in FiF I guess. 🤷♂️. This one came out perfectly heat treated. Thanks for following along!
@@TyrellKnifeworks You are very welcome. I get mad at that show a lot, but I don't think I could make a knife in three hours 😅
Hallo, danke für diese genaue Erklärung. Schmieden ist mein Hobby und diese Video ist die beste Erklärung die ich gesehen habe. Dart ich einen Link unter mein Video setzten. Das wäre super. Danke und weiter so.mfg die Hobbyschmiede.
Ich bin froh, dass es hilfreich war. Danke fürs zuschauen!
Hi, it's been a while since you posted the video, but I'm hoping for a response.
In the recipes after each treatment you say to soak the piece for ex 10 minutes , but this is not there in the video. So what is the correct procedure? Soak the piece in Oil or? for the correct amount of time after each step on treatment?
And your job is awesome! thank you!
That means soak it at that temp for 10 minutes. This is particularly critical for the fast quenching steels like 1095. For 1080/5160/etc, the soak time isn’t as important. Those recipes are more geared for people with a kiln. Thanks for watching
I spent 20 minutes heating my steel short sword but could not get it to glow red. What am I doing wrong? I am trying to harden it and need it to glow red until it loses its magnetic properties before I quench it. Can you offer any advice?
Sounds like your forge isn’t hot enough. Once it’s at temp, it should only take 10-15 mins to heat it up to quenching point. Note, non magnetic alone isn’t hot enough. It needs to be 75F hotter than that. Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks Don't have a forge, using a propane torch.
@JohnCranberry23 that’s not going to work. You need to at least make a two-brick forge. Google it.
this is why i keep a container of perlite when im done forging everything goes in to cool slow
Yes, that works. Just leaving them in the forge as it cools works too. Thanks for watching.
Is there a reason I can't just hit a blade ball peen hammer or a lighter forging hammer to straighten a warp out after tempering it? It never made sense that I could tap it with something harder than the steel but not use another piece of steel to straighten it, as I could soften another hammer.
The problem is that your ball peen hammer is softer than your blade so it’s not going to expand the metal on the blade so it won’t correct the warp. Solid carbide is much harder and hence it creates the divots in the blade that correct the warp. Make sense? Thanks for watching.
@@TyrellKnifeworks 🤔 Yes ...however being honest about 90% of the quenches i have done are clay quenches so i am differentially hardening almost every blade i make as i am obsessed with hamons. the kinds of warping i generally see is do to the softer spine bending a bit. So i can typically straiten a blade by bending it a little bit. or i got really uneaven heat do to not moving it around in the forge which i did for a little bit after i had gotten sick 2 years ago and could not forge for 6 months do coplacations after i got covid.
@@gundanium3126 Sure, but straightening hammers are cheap... why not get one that works with all blades. 😉
@@TyrellKnifeworks@TyrellKnifeworks true; however, I literally only recently learned about them, and I likely will pick one up eventually.😊
@@gundanium3126 a straightening hammer only will do so much and on large thin knives you always run the risk of having dents in the final blade. A straightening hammer is a nice extra tool but for me there is nothing better than a torch and a 3 point straightening jig. It just takes about 15-30 min fiddling with a blade instead of putting it back in the temper oven for x amounts of hours.
How can I like a video twice in here?
Thanks for watching, Francisco!
Well aren't you just the cats ass😁 I've been quenching my Alabama Damascus in parks 50 but it looks like i should be using AAA
But isn’t their Damascus 1084/15n20? That’s Parks50. Thanks for watching, Richard.
@@TyrellKnifeworks 5160/15n20 I think
@@richardbranton190I would check that. It’s a very odd combination for Damascus. 5160 is really not a dark steel plus it’s a different heat treat than the 15n20. If that IS what they’re making, I’d stay away from it personally.
I just went to their website and it is made from 5160 15n20 and ni200 what ever that is
@@richardbranton190 That's so bizarre. 5160 doesn't etch dark at all and has a different heat treat than 15n20 so it's a really strange combination. They must get a deal on the 5160 and get it cheap or something.
So not only are the fireballs unnecessary on Forged in Fire, but it'd seem that the "3 hours" they get in the first round is as well? How in the hell do any of them fit normalizing and annealing in before the quench if it takes 12+ hours alone for one of those processes? They always quench at the end of that 3 hour limit, and it sounds like both of those processes need to be done before the dip, right? I guess it's either just Hollywood creating the smoke and mirrors with a fake time limit to make it more exciting for the viewer, or I'm missing something in the logistics? 😅
On FiF, they are lucky if they get a normalization cycle, let alone a grain refinement. Certainly they never anneal, just no time for that. 80% of the people on that seem to quench about 200-500F above where they should be too. I guess the clock gets everyone crazy. Thanks for watching
@@TyrellKnifeworks really surprised more of the blades don't just explode on the first tests with them, knowing that now, hahah. And of course, thanks for all the details on a craft I knew next to nothing about before finding your channel, appreciate the reply all the same!