What Was Each Primarch’s Relationship With The Emperor Like? | Warhammer 40k Lore
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- čas přidán 8. 06. 2024
- The Big E wasn't the best dad around, but was his relationship with his sons really that bad?
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TLDR, Emperor should have smacked some of his sons more and others probably a little bit less
Lorgar probably could have done with a softer smack
To give yourself something to smack to go here : www.patreon.com/majorkill
He should have divorced his wife and married.... I don't know someone who knows how to raise little Demi gods
Perturabo really needed some friends, and better tasks.
The Emperor really screwed over Angron by kidnapping him, instead of taking his whole army (and cybernetically upgrading them similar to Luther)
The Emperor also screwed over Mortarion, instead of working with him and supporting him, he decided to kill steal!
Really, there is no threat greater to Mankind than the Emperor himself. Chaos wouldn't have had anything to twist or corrupt if he had been a better person. There's only so much Malcador could do.
Majorkill, your current hair and facial hair style works. The clean shave and office hair cuts dont work on u.
👏👏👏👏👏👏
Make video on lucius the eternal and all these space marines chapters
flame falcons
raptors
silver skulls
storm giants
Mantis warriors
Noise marines
Sons of malice
Sons of antaeus
Also make a videos about the machine god omnissiah
beastmans in 40k
ollanius pius
Soul forge
Daemon engines
Warp smiths and dark mechanicum
what the Emperor needed was family counceling and therapists.
How the fuck do you raise so many children by yourself?
It's just sheer irresponsibility having 20 sons at once, you can't give each one the attention they need, especially as a single dad.
The neglect for some sons from emps seems to familiar I grew up with 7 siblings
He was not planning on being a single dad ... He intended to strike out from Terra together with them letting them go and conquer on their own when they felt ready.
Everyone forgets that the Emperor’s plan for the Primarchs was different than what happened.
That and he had to run a empire
But i mean time management is one thing
leaving a son's adoptive family to be sluaghtered was kinda fucked
Hahahaha, so true, so sad
The Emperor had a lot on his plate, but nothing could protect him from bad writing.
I know, right? It goes from half of the Primarchs betraying him to this Linkin Park song and more edges than a scrapyard.
It makes sense when you look at him in totality though.
Stealing power from the gods at moloch did something terrible to him, as did the creation of the primarchs. Constantine and Malcador talk about this at one point, with Constantine noting that he is becoming more and more inhuman as time goes by. When Malcador visits him in the psychic desert realm in Mortis, at one point he sees Neoth as something profoundly more terrifying that even a powerful psychic perpetual.
That's why, at times, Neoth had some emotional intelligence, and why, during other times, he did shit like zap Angron out of the battlefield rather than come down to help him. He was already beginning a transformation into an eldritch god way back then: after 10k years on the throne, being fed psykers every day, there's almost certainly no humanity left to him.
@@justincoates4582 well, the emperor never steal something from the dark gods, in fact he bargain for that power, constantin and malcador never truly understood his plan, and what was the real price he must pay to have this power.
in reality, he was very human, but must do terrible thing to protect humanity and his many son.
@@ScooterinAB omg im literally lol'ing. Linkin Park and 'more edges than a scrapyard' XD
@@magnusmaximus1415 whatever he did, it fucked him up pretty bad. The Neoth who was a father to the primarchs was very different from the Neoth who went into that cave on Moloch. Erda and the other Perpetuals describe him as someone who was intimate, charismatic, and actually extremely funny, who was often a ruler but rarely a tyrant. Compare that to the Neoth we see in the Heresy, to say nothing of the psychic abomination on the Golden Throne in the current timeline.
Ollanius' fears turned out to be correct. The man who would become the emperor saw the future, but, because of his own hubris, largely brought that future about by his own hand.
Imagine if Emps had been smart enough to be like, "hey, Maclador, my best friend, my confidant, the god-father of my children. Go to Magnus and help him grow into a good non-chaos warp sorcery badass like yourself. k thnkx."
Nah. That would have been a (relatively) good dad thing to too. Can't have that happening.
And have Perturabo work with Bobby G so their campaigns would had less brutality pined on the iron warriors
@@justinLaw5 Kinda sad those two DIDN'T work together. Maybe Perty would have found a friend other than Magnus, and be less of an ass.
@@ItamarO93 issue was that after Perty's decimation of his legion for inefficiency Gman hated his guts because he liked and respected many of the Iron Warriors that were killed
@@callumcochrane7759 Sure, but Gman was the kind of guy to forgive.
Despite of all the shit fans like to talke about him, he was a good dude overall.
Big E was either father of the year or literally the worst in the galaxy, depending completely on which side of the heresy he needed his sons on
This is the correct answer.
hey, its "the" gal!! lmao
This!
Horus would like a word
HE. DID. NOT. PLAN. THE. HERESY.
Fulgrim sounds like the one most likely to say "Daddy" instead of "Father" when talking about the emperor.
Isn't he a demon of slannesh?
@@samuraitadpole5459 yes
@@samuraitadpole5459 Yes. He'll still refer to the Big E as Daddy. Just in a more spiteful sense.
yeah now he be like "oooooh daddy choke me harder" but you know...in a spiteful way....yeah...
@@HasvenWorld Like Veronica from Riverdale.
Lion asks daddy about why Horus has a parade, in utter confusion.
Big E: “some men need praise and acknowledgments of their accolades...” *looks directly at the lion* “ And some men do not.”
Peak father-son relationship, 10/10.
Some paraphrase in quote.
indeed, the lion don't need his dick stroked to go kill shit, but horus? Hes a sensitive one, he needs daddy to tell him hes doing a good job.
I think the emperor knew some primarchs would fall he just didn't know how many or who and the only ones he was sure of were the lion sanguine and guil
@@lordsathariel4384 he specifically says the only one he’s sure of was the Lion.
@@9e7exkbzvwpf7c no what i mean is i think he was 100% sure of the lion around 80% with sanguine and guil but the rest were all around 50 to 40% sure like he seems most trusting to those 3 while with all the other primarchs he seems like more of a dick to them
He wasn't sure with Jaghatai and Corax.
He definitely dropped the ball with Angron, and arguably Curze as well. He ignored or dismissed the things that mattered to them and never acknowledged why those things were even important to them.
Maybe coming down to a planet that is in eternal night as a shining golden asshole blinding everyone ... is not the best move.
Don’t forget about treating Lorgar like Sh!t without warning.
@@robertnelson9599 I don't think it WAS without warning though. Lorgar was told over and over again to stop treating the Emperor like a God and to stop wasting time building monuments and shrines when he should have been fighting the Great Crusade.
@@robertnelson9599 the burning of the city was basically the switch from big e going "lorgar stop it youre being wierd" to slapping him over the head with a powerfist.
The two primarchs with the greatest potential...
I love these Primarch videos that explain their relationship. We just need what the Primarch feels about their legions or xenos and it would be awesome!
Angron and Curze hated their legions. Morty hated what his legion became due to Typhus. Horus was the only Primarch that seemed to even respect xenos.
@@robertnelson9599 *Fulgrim at first seemed pretty respectfull to Eldrad. It was after he mentioned Horus would turn traitor, and the stuff about Chaos that Fulgrim tried to massacre him.*
(It happened during the book "Fulgrim" btw.)
Vulcan felt a to of warmth to the Eldar.
@@robertnelson9599 ultramarines had a form of respect for xenos bearing in mind they would imitate their tactics if they were good. Can't do that unless you respect the Xenos in some way
I think they all hate xenos, with Guilliman probably having the most tolerance for them.🤔
Not only did the primarchs get their positive aspects from the emperor, they also inherited his negative traits. Even his fears. Perhaps even the temptation to embrace chaos?
who let this heretic voice a very thought provoking opinion?!
@@danielhogan6255 If big E made 10 instead of 20.
@@jonathanathor117 Probably would've been a much more manageable load lol
@@jonathanathor117 yeah, it probably would've made it easier to define their traits, instead of some Primarchs embodying his logistic skills, battle prowess, and other adopting his...sneakiness or his furry kink lol
@@vincentadultman6226 man the big e is like primus but reckless.
Also Khan is one the best trash talk of the universe, his sick burns are fking awesome.
If you ask the Primarks if the Emperor have a dad problem with their sons, 18 of 20 will say "YES", with the other 2 being not found to give their opinion.
But if will ask the Emperor if he is a good dad to their sons, he will say "They are not my sons, they are my tools", like a good rich, absent and very ocupied father allways respond.
if you wanna talk about it...
I would say the lion would be in the stages of grief when asked that question
I think that's quite a bit harsh on E. I think he viewed them in a combined view. As tools to fulfill his plans but still beloved sons, even as his expression of that love can be twisted/abusive at times
The tool part was only when he became a husk of the man he was. He lost all of his humanity making him a cold but still human loving god
@@ias787 That is mostly a fan theory, which mainly derives from the star child and that is very very old lore with no new references in canon. I think you might be getting that from Text To Specch Device series which had the emporer doing exactly that.
Emporer to me seems to just have an unstable and egotistical way of going about things. Deep down he loved them, but also viewed them as tools to help bring about humanities perfection. You can still love someone but view them in a limited perspective like that.
He might have been the most intelligent, charismatic, ambitious man to ever live, but still had trouble being a nice relatable human being a lot of the time to his sons.
Majorkill you should make a video about the intended role of each primarch would be if the heresy never happened I know valrak has already made a vid on this but he left out some primarchs (mortarion ) plus your opinions could wildly different from his I would love to see it
Pretty sure he already did a video on those or maybe I just heard it. But I swore majorkill did a video on this subject already.
@@deron2203 maybe I can't remember it though
@@deron2203 I'm pretty sure that was arch and not majorkill, I remember he has done some in depth analysis on certain primarchs and what they were ment to do or not
The primarch who got it the worst was probably angron. Emperor didnt even try to fix that relationship
He was like "meh i got them all idc he gonna follow my order"
If only he paid more attention to angron and few other..
Anyway big E lore is currently retconed right ? I heard about a book and "Lady astartes"
Angron was unfixable. The Emperor should have let him be killed, if anything.
Always love hearing about the adventures of the God Emperor of Gaslight, Gatekeep, and Girlboss
Based.
I am fortifying these waffles
Hes...the GEGGG.
The fact that russ liked malcador while also hating psykers is hilarious to me
He distrusted pyskers he didn't necessarily hate them malcador and the emperor were very careful about psykers and saw them as potential problems even though they used them. Keep in mind when the space wolves spike at the council of ikea to vote to ban pyskers they gave a simple this is where I stand thats it.
It was mortarian that made up some huge speech to try and manipulate the others
cuz morty be a bit of a dingleberry.
Don't forget about his own legion utilizing runepriests. The man would rebuke the supernatural, in the middle of casting bone dice to scry the future
@@Fuerto203 true its dumb but he honestly thought there was a difference im surprised the emperor didn't tell russ it was the warp
@@lordcommissar7813 did...did you just say the Council of Ikea?
I watched a video about the new alpharius novel.
Tldr: alpharius was found 1st and kept a secret
When omegon was found they switched places, alpharius became omegon and omegon became alpharius.
Then true omegon betrayed the emperor on behalf of the cabal and true alpharius is still loyal as far as we know.
2:29 Lion El'Jonson: "My normal calm has been compromised. The only way to atone for not being by Father's side is to hunt down the Traitors and annihilate them with immense abhorrence."
I like the theory that the Emperor knew Angron had the Butcher's Nails, and that despite his efforts he wouldn't be able to remove them. So he gave his son a source of hate. Something to keep him going. Because the Emperor knew if he were to help Angron and his warriors, that the Butcher's Nails would kill Angron sooner than they already were. So the Emperor gave him a source of constant hate and anger to quell the Nails.
New head canon achieved
indeed
This is a hill that I will die on. The emperor truly is the reason for his sons turning to chaos. They may be primarchs, but they all have human emotions
It also doesn’t help that they were sent to such distant and varied environments. I bet none of the Primarchs would have turned if they had grown up in the Imperial Palace.
@@robertnelson9599 they were sent to distant worlds because of Erda the primarchs mother though so if anything he made a really stupid decision.
@@robertnelson9599 Have you read Imperium Ascendant?
@@555tork Such a stupid lore change.
indeed... I mean the mechanicus had servitors pretty much on lock by then, they could shown him how to make a primarch more "compliant" once he found them. Whats he go and do? Trys to play father to 20 wildly varied, very mentally unstable, autistic, vat grown weapons.
That Analysis of Fulgrim was spot on... It also makes me wish GW would do something with that Loyal Fulgrim Clone... it would be super dope if there was a face-off with Trazyn and a sect of Chaos Emperor's Children wanting their Daddy back like he used to be... but when they bust him out of Trazyn's cage... he immediately wrecks the Chaos Legion, dodges out on Trazyn, and makes a bee-line back to the Loyalist... that would make an awesome book(series...) culminating in Fulgrim Vs. Chaos Fulgrim
While that would be cool it still wouldn't be true fulgrim part of the primarchs power is in there soul so while he may act like fulgrim he would not be as strong
@@lordcommissar7813 Clonegrim HAS fulgrims original soul
In becoming snek fulgrim had his soul removed. So Clonegrim has the og soul. It's why manus can be resurrected via clone only to be added to snakegrim's manus head collection.
They need to make an 18-20 episode series where every episode goes over how the emperor met all of his sons, and each episode is dedicated to a primarch's backstory and lore
18 episodes and 2 black charts with the title [removed]
Exactly
@@xzenitramx666 warp yeah!
Objection: the best Primarch is Vulkan!
Boop the snoot of the toad
You spelled Sanguinius wrong mate 🙃🤣
Vulkan lives *STOMP* *STOMP*
Objective truth.
OBJECTION!!!! RUSS IS THE BEST!!!!
For anyone that's curious about a particular Primarch, here are the timestamps for each:
- (1st): Lion El'Jonson [1:13]
- (2nd): *Unknown* [2:37]
- (3rd): Fulgrim [2:49]
- (4th): Perturabo [3:36]
- (5th): Jaghatai Khan [4:54]
- (6th): Leman Russ [6:09]
- (7th): Rogal Dorn [6:56]
- (8th): Konrad Curze [7:38]
- (9th): Sanguinius [8:31]
- (10th): Ferrus Manus [9:18]
- (11th): *Unknown* [9:50]
- (12th): Angron [9:59]
- (13th): Roboute Guilliman [10:31]
- (14th): Mortarion [11:09]
- (15th): Magnus the Red [11:57]
- (16th): Horus [12:32]
- (17th): Lorgar [13:23]
- (18th): Vulkan [14:02]
- (19th): Corvas Corax [14:34]
- (20th): Alpharius, Omegon [15:39]
0:10 Yeah the Primarchs needed a lot of therapy to work out their daddy issues and get help.
Mr. Perfect Cell: "Oh please there isn't a shrink qualified enough to deal with those hot messes!"
Alucard: "Good thing I have the experience of being a successful therapist to countless of people and myself for a decade! *So I am over beyond qualified!"*
OK thanks to you I'm now imagining a Horus Heresy Abridged series by Team Four Star and I love it 🤣🤣
That would be crazy.
Alucard would just pisses Man Emperor so much that he got all of his Schrodinger Soul got erased by his special flaming sword
If Magnus and his sons could kill the nerfed Satan in W40K then I'm sure his dad could erase Satan's hosts like Alucard if Emperor found him too much of a swindling crotch, Alucard might as well got a crotch rot in a hive world
@@ohamatchhams You can't erase something that is effectilvely omni present. However what the emperor would a fun time dealing with our vampire hunter. What emps can do is throwing him over and over and over like a stress ball made of blood and guts.
Nero: My arm still hurts.
*thumbnail*
Man-Emperor of Mankind, Angron and Alpharius likes to go for a walk.
A very enthusiastic father and son walk.
Honestly as much as I love Magnus and Vulkan learning more about the Lion makes me like him so much more. I'm not a Dark Angels fancy but I respect and enjoy the pre-heresy Dark Angels.
Dude, Vulkan and Magnus, along with Sanguineous and the Khan, were kinda the best people.
@@ItamarO93 I know, I still like Magnus and Vulkan the most. Sanguinius is kinda boring to me with how noble and perfect her is. And Khan? He's so fucking boring, there's nothing special about him other than speed. He's soooo boring.
@@inductivegrunt94 if you wanna be reductive like that than you can say so about most primarchs.
Magnus - red salty psychic nerd
Vulkan - huggy fire black man
Lion - hush it's a secret
Guilliman - accomplished little goody two shoes
Mortarion - he smells so bad but doesn't want to smell so bad
Angron - Angery
Corvus - Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad
Alpharius - I'm actually Omegon
Omegon - I'm actually Alpharius
Should I keep going lol?
@@NeutralGuyDoubleZero Each of the primarchs are just one note characters when you look into them. And that's how I know whether to enjoy them or not. Kurze is a good example: Edgy Edgelord McEdgy Edgersin.
@@inductivegrunt94 It was rhetorical, i dont think the primarchs are all one note like that. My point is that you're being a bit unfair to khan by being so reductive/dismissive yet appreciative of magnus/vulkan or when you learned about the lion.
Kahn is similar in that he has some other layers if you look deper/are interested. His aspect of growing up against tyrants/kings yet deciding to serve his tyrant father opposed to chaos is one I particularly like about him
Portarabo and rogal dorn are so good at being friends and are best of friends there's no discontent for who wants to build bath houses and shit
So little has been written about the interactions with the emperor, you could literally summarize it on one single page!
I feel like some people neglect the fact that all the primarchs were grown ass men with the exception of Angron. They didn’t need to be such assholes but they choose to be regardless.
Grown in a tube, you mean...
The biggest fucking babies I have ever known, are adults 🤣
Majorkill not calling Angron a walking abortion and admitting the Emperor did a shit one without trying to tack any blame onto Angron?
Majorkill, m8, are you ok?
How much was Angron’s fault and how much was the Butcher’s Nails? Weird archeotech that heightens aggression and lowers self control would make life difficult.
@@maxpower3990 It did so much more than that. The butchers nails esentially replaced his entire central nervous system, and rewarded anything but anger with massive amounts of pain. Even thinking caused pain. Removing it would have killed him outright.
@TinyWhale doesn't help that his primarch powers would've made him an empath
Imagine if magnus ended up of a world filled with blanks
He'd have gone insane
Now Imagine the big E finding this fucked up magnus and being like
Yeah you'll do
come on we have a galactic war to wage
Angron Is less failed abortion
More baby dropped on its head
Yeah, the nails weren’t designed for primarch brains, so they did NOT mesh well with Angron. They had to remove entire chunks of his brain to implant the nails. He was basically lobotomized. No wonder he could never get anything done.
0:33 In short, the Man-Emperor of Mankind has a bipolar disorder. Which makes sense since He used to be the souls of the Shamans that ritually killed themselves that fuse together into one supremely powerful singular soul as the Anathema to Chaos.
I cannot understand why they retconned the mysteries surrounding the Dark Angels true loyalties and agenda, which made their substance.
You don't have to be Imperium or Chaos, there are many other ways, the novel Legion showed it. Following your own secret path doesn't mean you're an ennemy of the Emperor either.
Well to be fair alphauris doesn't really have a side. So having to see the dark angels copy the same thing, wouldn't be as interesting.
"Your own secret path"?
*heavy bolter loaded*
What do you mean 😀 . There is only the emperor and the imperium.
@@strangerlucky5753 Lol there are many human factions within the Galaxy, some strongly affiliated with the Imperium, some affiliated only by name (leagues of Votaan), some following chaos, independent ones, some that rebelled or became de facto independant.
The Imperium acknowledges some, turns a blind eye on others, some they are planning to attack when possible, many they are not even aware of.
The DA fell into the bracket part of the Imperium/strongly affiliated, but whose loyalty was one of interest or due to a balance of power.
Why ? We will never know now.
@@t.m.t3215 Certainly he never know about Constantin fucking Valdor and his secret Imperial Daemon and new blanks armies in the Immaterium, he doesn't even take shits from most Inquisition bodies especially from the folds of Ordos of retardicus
The Emperor really needed to have a sincere heart to heart with each of his sons. YES, he still should have told them about Choas. Although he could have done that in pieces and not allow Choas be all "Stranger Danger". But mainly he needed to let his sons understand what they were, were meant for in his Great Crusade, and what he meant for them in the days after, so they might understand how to be themselves.
And maybe slowed down the Great Crusade by a few centuries at least, just so that there would be time for the Emperor to at least steer his sons in the direction he would have meant to raise them. I can see the Emperor ever so slightly steering himself to better steer some of his sons. Like catching on to Horus before he slips into corruption. Rein in Magnus' ego and desire for knowledge with actual goals and positive reinforcement. Getting Kruze his own Batcave. Letting Pertti Robbo and Dorn hold regular building contests even open schools for the arts of engineering and architecture (this was before AD Mechs took over such endeavors). Let Angron save his friends and their world HIMSELF... and either remove or deaden the Butchers nails. The list goes on... If The Emperor had not rushed things too fast, he might have had time to catch and fix problem before they were a problem.
The Emperor might have benefited from being a parent a few times, before making his own sons. Observing how successful parents raise their kids. Of course, this assumes he had was planning on doing a good job raising them.
Okay, I don't know why people keep saying that it's so hard to understand Conrad's motivation.
Conrad was one of the first to really come to grips with the idea that they weren't born, they were genetically created in a lab and they were all created with specific abilities in mind.
From birth Conrad was given a gift with the ability to see the future, and only ever saw the worst possible options. At no point did the emperor ever give him any kind of training or guidance or explain to him how he could be using those to avert bad events. Instead he left Conrad on his own and as a result Conrad misinterpreted his gift as that it was only ever showing him an immutable future that could not be changed. This is why he's a little crazy, because all he is constantly seeing in his head is how everything is going to crap and nothing ever good happens.
The entire point of him allowing the Assassin to kill him is that it vindicates his interpretation of his gift. If there was any other possible interpretation, he wouldn't die at that moment. And if the emperor was going to contradict him, the emperor would have done or said something to change that future.
So for him it was Vindication of everything he had said. That the emperor was a monster who had created a living being who was forced to only see the horrible future that awaited all of mankind, with no ability to make changes to it. If the emperor had stepped in, if the Assassin had turned its blade, if anything had happened other than as he had seen it then that would have meant that he was wrong, and that some of his brothers were right, and he did have the ability to change the future. And that was not something that Conrad wanted to confront, the possibility that all of his insanity and Madness and all the vile things he have done were for nothing. That's why he is bizarre Lee so happy in those last moments, because he has been proven right
Conrad could *absolutely* see the good outcomes, but because it made his misery more bearable to blame his choices on "fate" instead of himself, he basically just straight up lied to his brothers and father about it. Also, it's pretty heavily implied that the Emperor *did* try to help, but because Kurze had so thoroughly convinced himself that the bad path was the "true one" in order to live with the fucking terrible things he'd done, he didn't want it. Kurze, for all the people who say that his fall was unavoidable, literally made the conscious choice to go along with the "fate" of him falling, purely because then he wouldn't have to really do anything to improve himself.
Also, notably, there were like... 6 or 7 Primarchs that pretty immediately determined they were artificial; Purterabo, Kurze, Corax, Guilliman, Magnus and the Gorgon I believe all figured it out long before they were picked up by the Emperor. It's likely that Sanguineous had also figured it out, but legitimately, I'm not sure. I don't really know much about his story beyond "he showed up, he changed the Blood Angels from what amounts to biological weapons into noble Angels and then he died after being sent to Terra and defending the gate for like a week straight solo".
This guy gets it.
I mean if if you class being right as being forgotten by practically 80% of the fan base as well as no one really caring for you. Perty had a point as is generally liked meanwhile Conrad’s the emo that no-one really cared for.
His reason was pretty shit and his outlook horrible he himself hated his legion but does nothing about it, he blames everyone else but doesn’t try to improve himself.
Conrad’s the kids that blames everyone but himself and refuses to change and adapt as well as saying he couldn’t do anything but having so many options available.
The only Primarchs that I think have a genuinely good reason for betraying him are Angron and maybe Curze.
Kurze was insane and The Emperor did not do much. Morti had all the reason to betray daddy, he was always marginalized.
Mortarion was an idealist, serving no goal but humanity's liberation from all oppression, at the side of whoever would give him the military means to do so.
He was always a dangerous extremist, whose vision about freeing humanity from its chains had more to do with Pol Pot's than Mandela's.
A ticking bomb at the very heart of the Imperium armed forces.
@@Liminal.Headspace steal the kill and your fate is in stone
Would say magnus as well. Giving your son all the psychic powers and just leaving him alone with them just telling him: „don’t use them too much“ isn’t the best thing. And then later on blaming magnus for everything… not the best father here
I would say lorgar.
The Emperor was a bad father. But he didnt have the time to spend with his sons, the Great Crusade could not be posposse more time, Chaos really did a great job spreading the primarchs. And then it was the Webway project that even when the Emperor let the Great Crusade the Webway wasnt compleated even at the end of the Horus Heresy, turning into the torture champer of the Big E.
If Big E would have told Magnus about the Webway that wouldnt have happen, and the Webway would have stay functional
Posposse? Is that even a word?
@@johannesstephanusroos4969 im trying to discern what that typo is from but i literally cannot think of the word its supposed to be
@@gravytube4099 Postpone
Maybe big E should have made 5 to 10 primarchs.
@@jonathanathor117 The Imperium needed (and needs) 20 primarchs. 2 died, 18 were left. 9 turned traitors. And like 3-4 loyalist died. There are like 5 Primarchs out there, and the Imperium neees more than that
Let's be honest, if The Emperor chose The Lion as warmaster and put Guilliman in charge of calming him the fuck down, we would have nothing to talk about.
Not really. With the new lore we know that the emperor and malcador knew that whoever became war master would be corrupted by chaos.
@@shadearca And its makes them stupid as fuck then. "Warmaster will fall to chaos, but we appoint one anyway, so i can get shanked and sit on the Golden Throne! Just look how fabulous it is!"
Never understood why people were so confused about the Emperor’s relationship with the primarchs.
From “Malcador: The First Lord of Terra”:
*In comparing the Thunder Warriors and the Primarchs*
“Like them, burning brightly but briefly. But the Emperor and I could not conduct the Great Crusade with genhanced mortals. We needed something greater, something stronger to reclaim the stars. And in order to control it, we needed a lifespan of the Astartes that had nothing to do with aging or timed infirmity. Believe me when I say it Sibel Niasta, this was always intended to be the final act of the crusade. We wanted the Primarchs to turn against one another, against their father. […] Be assured, we maneuvered each of them from the moment of their rediscovery. Pitting them against each other, stoking their brotherly rivalries with his *unequal* favour. It was not difficult, no more so than positioning pieces on a Cheops board. Those who could not be managed -well-- they would never reach the endgame.”
Really makes the theory that Emps orchestrated the whole HH a little more real
@@TheSickjits Too bad it worked too well with Chaos making Big E regret it
@@bentim7732 Big E should have waited a little longer until the Imperial Webway is complete and the Imperium successfully have reclaimed and consolidated their hold on the galaxy, including making sure Chaos is neutralized.
@@bentim7732 I say blame Erda. She started it all when she collaborated with the Chaos Gods to scatter all Primarchs across the galaxy where half of them will eventually fall to Chaos and turn traitor.
Primarchs with Daddy Issues: "NOTICE US!!!"
Man-Emperor of Mankind: "Nooooooo...."
Emperor was the best dad ever. He gave them godly bodies, their own legion, great gadgets, called them sons. They had gigachad uncle malcador. What more can someone ask in that dark time?! He was very nice to those sons who made sense. Sanguinius, Vulkan, Russ, Dorn..etc all those pure hearted recived emperor's love.
Then why was perturabo used as cannon fodder all he wanted was to feel loved by the emperor but instead dude shit on him
@@weightlifter2012 emperor can read thoughts and charecter of someone. He probably saw a cold jealous manchild in perturabo. Also He gave perturabo hard battles because emperor trusted him, called him his lord of iron, someone with iron will who has the guts to do what needed to be done. He gave him hard sieges because perturabo had one of the best brain among primarchs. Emperor never said him to use his men as cannon fodder, but he did. He ruined his own image among his brothers. Don't blame emperor on this
The best dad ever wouldn't have got pissed off that one of his sons refused to join him to instead die with his slave brothers and then teleport him alone aboard his ship, leaving the other slaves to die and fuck angron up even more than the nails already had
I'm assuming this is pure sarcasm. Big E treated Angron like shit for no reason and lost his trust from day 1.
@@yerauldda6955 Emperor is thousands of years old, he witnessed all the deaths and cruelty, faced it. I guess he doesn't care or didn't give much thoughts about some unknown slaves with nails on the head. He only saved his son. He probably didn't know angron was very close to them
3:20 Black Templar William Smith after slapping the Third Legion Primarch: "KEEP MY EMPEROR'S NAME OUT YOUR FRAKKING MOUTH!"
You made Perty's relationship w big E sound great! I was getting the vibe that it would totally make an epic drama/action movie if it were set in ancient Greece or Rome and then everything else you said was the same.
Peter Turbo CSM Primarch #1!
He wasn't bad, he was a work-aholic, ideological, neglectful, egotistical, pragmatist. He had no time for being a friend dad, he was straight up parental unit who could sacrifice his offspring because he could genetically modify more.
Oh no, he was a bad dad. An absolutely a terrible father on every paternal level. Playing favourites, clearly more interested in some than in others beyond that, barely acknowledging the existence of some, not seeing or caring about most of (perhaps all of) them beyond what they could do for him, using them as weapons of punishment against one another (using the Ultramarines to punish Lorgar. Not simply pitting them against one another - it was putting one brother clearly at the mercy of another brother. Maybe it was necessary for Lorgar to be taught that lesson, but it should have been the Custodes to teach that lesson, not the Ultramarines.), etc. Not only was he a terrible father, but he was a terrible War leader - that's abundantly clear.
The question is how much of it was absolutely intentional (ie: he knew or NEEDED some of the Primarchs to turn on him, and so he pushed many of them onto paths that could only lead to Rebellion), was it just Tragic Mistakes (He didn't MEAN to alienate Mortarian and Angron so completely, he didn't realize how isolated Perturabo was getting, whoopsie on what happened to Magnus, the brain fart from above, etc.)... or is it just that GW hadn't really thought this out before letting Writers explore the ideas on their own, and are now doing the "Well, in your game... YOU get to decide what's real!" as a way to try to wash their hands of it?
so not a bad dad....a shit one. Gotcha
Well look what his so called "pragmatism" lead to.
@@jonathanathor117 yeah, but the thousands sons primarch, Lorgar, Horus, and maybe alpharius fucked it up... That's his idealog neglect fuckt the emperor, too much of an ego in his own work, maybe I don't know
@@JosePerez-ld8qg imma be honest. The unification wars on Terra MAY have been necessary given the circumstances with techno barbarians and all that shit (there could have been a little bit more peaceful way like you know not destroying every religion and culture and replace it with r/ atheism).
However when you use the same line of logic to something as vast as the milky way galaxy, you get to realize that unnecessary scorch earth, genocide, xenocide etc is really uncalled for. I mean come on the world eaters and nightlords and iron warriors are evidence of that. Yes there may have alot of harmful xenos but what about the nice ones huh. The diasporex?
Also the big E wasn't honest about his plans at all outside of small snippets like atheism, science, and human web way project. Magnus would have thought twice before punching the psychic magic wall Jimmy space built. If he had talked to his primarchs on what chaos is in an unbiased manner they wouldn't have joined. If he told humanity in general on what his plans alot of things can go smoothly. Then again his plans for humanity were narrow minded and tunnel vision at best.
As someone who has twins and knows the effort it takes, 9 good ones and 9 trying to kill him is batting 0.500
According to your own theory, the primarchs are are chaos demi-gods taken from the warp and incarnated. I assume the deal went something along the lines: "Instead of 6, you will get 12, but half will betray you no matter what you do". Chaos is cryptic and double-crossing like that.
The point I'm trying to make is that, being the control freak that he is, probably the Big E tried to manipulate their destiny and make specific primarchs to betray him instead of random ones, which might include his favorites. Hence he is dad of the year at times and the shittiest dad in the galaxy at the same time.
Hope that makes sense. W40K gave my cancer autism.
Majorkill has said similar things in other videos. That idea is the only way to make the inconsistent parenting make sense
I know a lot of people dont like Angron but he has always been my favorite Primarch.
It's a shame he never got any time free of the nails.
And Big E treated him like absolute shit. I say I like him a lot too just because of his backstory. He definitely needed a better life.
Pre demon angron? Yes very fucking yes
Post demon? Ehhh
Emperor of Mankind: *Sees his sons as tools and not people.*
Also Emperor of Mankind: *Love Vulkan due to him being the most human of the Primachs.*
That is why gathering storm and dark imperium is stupid lore wise
And not Canon
@@whiteeye3453 dark Imperium is not Canon??
I think it’s both he created them for a purpose to be tools he could use to conquer the galaxy. He then grew to care for them as sons (or at least most of them) as he got to know them.
I think that’s why the talk he has with Guilliman makes a lot of sense.
@@davekavanagh7599 becouse it was cash grab by greedy GW nothing else
The problem with the emperor's parenting skills is that he was either Great or Awfull depending on the primarch.
if he simply helped Angron's slave rebelion thing , instead of simply "stealing" (I put it like this because thats how Mortarion sees it) his kill he could defeat the necromancer who raised Morty and give him the kill as the guy clearly needed some closure with the whole Necromancer dad thing and given Perturabo some better missions he would end up gaining 3 more loyalist Primarchs.
And thats forgetting about Horus if the emperor instead of simply leaving telling him "I am going to Terra to solve a problem and it needs to be secretive or the ones who created this problem will fuck us up" he would not become a traitor and thats without revealing Chaos to him and giving him a answer that would satisfy him.
Tbf, he wasnt trying to make "sons", he was trying to make "generals."
You gotta love Majorkills's continous (un-) biasedness when it comes to the Lion xD
Majorkill Might I recommend 2 CZcams videos. 1) Go over titanic weapons with that sweet sweet Australian swang and 2) Would the golden age of mankind survive in either war in heavens.
2. Absolutely nooooo. But let him sort it out
@@hm_stg Yup, the Man-Emperor of Mankind would be seen as The Raditz if he's in the War in Heaven.
Well... it depends, I 'spose. They'd definitely survive if they were to join sides. Maybe they'd even help tip the power balance in the Old Ones' favor.
By themselves? No f*cking way.
@@TheWarmachine375 what's a raditz ?
@@licensed_beheader A term for a guy who may be strong but compared to the far stronger warriors being above his weight class, he is a pushover.
My head canon on the eleventh primarch simply goes, the Emperor found him on mars, where he was already too far augmented, that when they met the primarch literally just said "how may I serve you father, do you like my toaster?", then the Emperor just crushes him into the martian soil.
Honestly I think it was like how me and my dad were. My dad already raised 2 others to adulthood when I came around and well.. I was much different than he thought I would be. I see the sons having turned out to be much different than what the big E thought and didn’t really know how to raise them. More so only having found them after they were adults themselves. Wonder how different things would have been if he found them much sooner?
I love how I left a comment on the last video basically recommending this exact video idea, and you were obviously already editing it.
Same wavelength.
Shweet.
20 kids all boys and wasnt there to raise them...Boris Johson comes to mind
I heard in a 40K theories video that during horus’s face of with grandpa emperor, he was actually torn away from chaos’s influence for a moment, a moment which he used to realize what had happened virulently apologize to his dad, and beg that big E put him down for the good of humanity
He wasn’t a _good_ dad, but he wasn’t a bad one either. He genuinely loved some of his sons because those chosen few most closely embodied his ideals: he loved them because they _were_ him, writ small. He couldn’t care for the rest of his sons in the same way because he couldn’t accept their differences. He couldn’t understand that Lorgar’s worship was his desire for a father figure that wouldn’t beat the shit out of him for existing, and I think that says a lot: they weren’t even really people to him, just tools. He didn’t take into account their individual faults and past traumas.
I personally think he was a respectable man. Also uncle Malcador was a great man.
My mom can be recognize as a respectable woman on some subjects, but she's still a bad mother.
The Emperor is still a better parent than their “mother”, who should not even exist.
@@robertnelson9599 My mother was a tube…
Malcador the Chad.
I love primarchs videos. make more please. and maybe something about our solar system like what happened with rest of the planets
Lorgar needed a calm, level headed talking to about exactly why the whole "no more religion" bit was so important to the Emperor's plans instead of having his favorite city bombed and telling him to get good. If he had done that, Lorgar never would have fallen to Chaos.
Meh the Emperor should just have swallow his own pride and let Lorgar continue to worship him, the Emperor is intelligent enough to know the Imperial "Truth" is bullshit. Punishing Lorgar was completely unnecessary.
@@blankeon6613 I think he could have allowed Lorgar to go back to worshiping him once the Warp was tranquil and free of the Chaos Gods.
When you think about it the Emperor probably looked at them early on as his sons, but as the disappointments and betrayals began to rise from all 20 of them, yes, even the loyalists; his view gradually shifted to them being nothing more than tools.
The pre-heresy portraits you've shown are so well done. Some artists are just on another level.
The Emperor really needed to have some Daughters as well, they could have helped defuse family tensions and kept their Brother's toxic masculinity in check …
[hands over a bag of chips they're sharing]: "Have you considered sending dad a text asking him about it? Look, I'll help you write it".
Or they could have been batshit crazy like the Sisters of Battle.
As someone who has numerous brothers and sisters, I can say that the sibling rivalry would be worse.
Having sisters =/= keeping toxic masculinity in check
In fact all Emperor's needs is some more empathetic and sympathetic personality and few wives to nurture them, those whose adopted by good family akin to Guilliman tend to be raised up into a normal yet talented human being, having good and caring parents is the key to foster and cultivating good children, not adding gender factors
Also if anything, having siblings will eventually lead siblings to go on their own ways into adulthood by their own terms, not giving a damn about others but themselves and their own careers either, speaking from my personal experience on that one
Perturabo would have been even more loyal than Lion El'Johnson if given the same treatment. Or even similar. "Perty, i know you keep getting the shit end of the stick but heres a bunch of ancient tech as a 'sorry'" would have made a Dorn 2.0 out of Perty.
The ultimate problem in the universe DADDY ISSUES
Wake up to a new Majorkill video... My day is saved !!!
Could we say that the emperor took the most out of his mistakes with the previous primarchs, in how to deal with them?
6:10 Helluva transition
you truly are the best Warhammer 40K channel
Just in time for my shit! You're a channel I can always rely on! Thank you for all the potty entertainment you've given me through the years Major and emperor bless!
"You kept that mule Kor Phaeron. Russ kept his kin-friends. The Lion kept Luther. Humans - brothers and foster fathers - saved and raised into Legion ranks. But not me. Not Angron, no. Did the Emperor teleport his gold-wrapped Custodians down to help me and my army? No. Did he free the War Hounds and order them to battle, fight alongside me? No. Did he save my brothers and sisters the way he spared and honoured the Lion's closest kin? The way he honoured Kor Phaeron? No, no and no. No mercy for Angron. Angron the Oathbreaker. Angron the Betrayer."
Yeah, big E is an awful father.
As always great work boss man. I really love your perspective on the lore, and the way that you break it down. It may be a bit cheeky but it is spot on . Your videos are always the highlight of my day. Keep up the great work. I would love to see a much longer video at some point and would love for you to cover the Sabbat Crusade. You continue to justify my 5 dollars a month and as soon as I can afford more you will get it.
Low-key the Khan might be my favorite behind Sangy himself. I loved their short but sweet interactions.
I dunno, in the case of Lorgar, I don't think there was any way of the Emperor meeting their expectations. If a person sets you up as an infallible god, at some point you are gonna fall short and slight them for it.
To be honest the Emperor shoulda just killed Lorgar, given that Lorgar was so driven to undermine the Emperors vision of a secular Imperium. Lorgar was never going to be happy in that Empire, and would inevitably latch onto the Chaos gods who actually appreciate worship.
Watched a bunch of your videos while hammered. Now that I’m sober, I’m going back and watching them & randomly realize i’ve seen them before
That Mostly Calm reminded me of The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.....Mostly Harmless 😁
Why does everyone keep saying the emperor saw the primarchs only as tools when he literally called guilliman a son too as well as a tool . Plus his mind is broken beyond belief .
He called him son the way Tony stark calls Peter Parker the same: to assert control over a needy young man.
Why they made Big E from a well intentioned extremist but loving father to something-to put it lightly-more grimdark is beyond me.
Then again that's a running theme with 40K.
The emperor going from a flawed but ultimately good man to space Hitler and back to the first one is such a sin
@@andythesaladgod4578
GW writing in a nutshell, look at the Tau. Least the Farsight Enclave are more like the original Tau.
Also technically he could count as "space hitler" already given what he has already done, but at least he wasn't a complete, emotionless ass that sees everything as a tool.
Should do a thing on the penitent series and the implications for Constantine Plus the whole thing where Constantine picks up that gene wizard in warhawk
Perty is the best, he nailed it.
I love your channel man, every other WH40k channel has videos that contain 5 hour long essays on every single primarch's daily bathroom routine
That shit in Lorgar's breakfast was the most expensive shit ever taken by a human.
Maybe it turned into a coprolite and its in a museum on Terra.
The picture of Jada Fuckwit-Smith was perfect timing. Had me wheezing. Good shit man.
LoL, I love that picture of Angron. Perfect just perfection.
You should definitely a video on the Necron technology or top 10 most over powered Necron weapons
#2 committed the worst treachery of all...he had tacos on a wednesday
Angron being Angron
And I can totally understand why Lorgar isn't the biggest fan of the emperor. He truly was one of the most tragic characters in the lore.
I need a playlist of the music you play in the background of your videos. I can never find them
The lion: the emperor made me, and I'm freaking awesome.
Fulgrim:I'm Jelly for a tight booty
Perty: dad...please can I have a hug
Khan:...okay I know we are adopted
Lemun: Dad, I do you a prouda
Dorn:father, thank you, I have won the construction completion
Curze: no dad it's not just a phase
Sanguinious: dad *amazes the emperor* I made you a picture I drew *emperor puts it on the fridge*
Ferris: dad *opens a beer* look at this car I rebuilt
Angron: grrr rarrr grrr you're not my real dad and that's my mountin dew
Gman: father I have done your taxes for the next 5 years
Morty: no...i dont stink!! You do!!
Maguns:dad this book says XXX on it, and i read it...
Horus: dad, yeah i drove the car into the ditch but can i borrow yours?
Logar: dad, help me, i dropped the soap
Vulcon: look father, I helped all the homeless
Corax: dad,I know you're not into black metal and that's okay, but I do and I like how you drive me to the shows
Alpharius: dad, we are gonna sleep over at Tim's house, but will be home but then we will go to Ryan's house after but will throw out the trash but will hang out with Steven but..
0:55 That was an excellent Dr Evil impression major kill
awesome vids mate! :D
Love the vids homie, keep up the great work. Also I know you have been on a primarch hype train with 2 videos back to back but I kinda want to see how the prinarchs treated their sons/legions.
Everytime MajorKill makes a video about the Emperor being a bad dad, take a shot
This is the best warhammer content and you're personality and presentation is golden ! Please keep I up major kill I need your content for my sanity (I listen to you at work well I cut up chicken, pretty metal)
I also respect how you're not a fat basements dweller and a chad ass iron encyclopedia
Great video! Thank you for putting out entertaining content for us plebs👍
God emperor of man: i do not see you as a son but as tools to be used
Robot girlyman: yes i know father
I feel like he'd be a far better father if he just got a restraining order against Aaron Dembski-Bowden.
I still maintain that Perty was the most loyal primarch at least initially he was the only one who would do whatever the emperor asked with no questions he literally loved him more then his own sons which says a lot