HOW TO PROPERLY TENSION A TENSION LINE - THE ROPE ACCESS AND CLIMBING PODCAST
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- čas přidán 6. 02. 2021
- HOW TO PROPERLY TENSION A TENSION LINE - THE ROPE ACCESS AND CLIMBING PODCAST
Hello and welcome back to The Rope Access and Climbing Podcast, and yes we are talking about everyone's favourite thing, Tension Lines.
This is something that so many people resort to yet, know the least about. Today I'm not going in-depth with tension lines. But let's first start out with the basics.
If you don't know the basics, you're surely unable to understand the theory.
Please note that this is rigged on vertical bolts, not something you would normally see but it's not wrong. Also for the case here. It allows you to see what's happening better.
So stay tuned.
So please make sure to chime in, in the comments I would love to see what you have to say about the setups.
Disclaimer
Just because I say something is acceptable or not doesn't mean you can just go and use these setups at work. Before doing anything please talk to your subject matter expert for the company you work. Also, make sure that any and all gear you use on the job is approved and has a proper risk assessment done on it.
Make sure you undergo proper training and have the proper information before proceeding with anything.
Thank you*
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Till next time,
Mikey Stevenson
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Thanks for the video!
I normally tension a line with a 3:1 unless otherwise needed for a specific task and I tie butterflies.
Thank you very much for the video! It's always good to know stuff like this..
Ya, tech talk to go with this. Will be released soon
In Australia minimum anchorage is 15Kn. But your correct Mikey from the meeting or exceeding manufacturers spec is perfectly fine.
Personally I use a slipknot and tension it by hand. Occasionally we need to lift the angle if the span is past 3 metres,so I'll chuck a 3:1 on there.
Great video as always brother 🤙🏼
Thank you!! Cheers
absolutely agree
Cheers
I strongly agree with hand tensioning for tensioned lines.
dunno if you guys cares but if you are bored like me during the covid times you can watch pretty much all of the latest series on instaflixxer. Have been watching with my gf for the last few weeks xD
@Chaim Terrance Definitely, have been using InstaFlixxer for months myself =)
Good info, but I'd also add the importance of equal tension being put in the system on either line and straight line of pull to know you're actually getting the load you're aiming for.
Hey, thank you for your comment. Yes, in an ideal situation. But, still not something that I'm totally worried about. In this event, the vertical bolts help you see what's happening.
Even with the vertical bolts and or the lines not being at the same tension. You are still operating will within the manufacturer's specifications.
I’m not very familiar with tension lines so thanks 🤙🏼
Your welcome!
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 i really like your content. keep posting.
I enjoy the vid. By what standard do you refer anchor minimum to be? I assume IRATA because you are in Canada but I have always known it to be 6kn with a 2.5 times safety factor equaling 15kn. Of course I’m wrong often and it seems to me a lot is changing in rope access currently.
Hey there,
Great question.
Where I live anchorage must be Atleast 16kN
IRATA is 15kN. Or yes 2.5 times The anticipated load of the max impact force being 6kN = 15kN
Same same just different 😂
Would this apply for a 100+ foot high line in a rescue event ie koontey high line? Fire/Rescue guy asking
Hey,
Thank you for your comment. Yes this is transferable to the fire industry as well.
At the end of the day, the more tension on the system. The more likely something could fail.
Interested question, since the ID's and Rig's nowadays autolock themselves and do not the same modes after the revision of 2019, is there a technique for that apart from having to tend it at and hold the handle while tensioning or is the ID's simply not a device to use like this after the revision? I'm curious and have read a bunch about it, but most of the videos out there seems to assume that you can leave it in belay mode.
Im not 100% sure I understand what your getting at and don’t want to give a wrong perspective
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380
What I do mean is being able to use the new version for line tensioning when it has the autolocking feature, but further study has shown that it is simply not a problem for those things and that the function is smarter designed than that. But thank you anyways, love your content!
Hey thank you for clearing that up.
So, just because Petzl has included auto locking handles on both the Rig and the ID does not change the function of these devices.
You can still use both to tension up lines, haul/low loads.
I hope that helps
Cheers
Mikey
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380
Perfectly, thanks!
lol @ Worrying about your angle/too much tension when IDs are inherently load limiting.
Good.
But if a company procedure exceeds in this scenario the slip knot advises from maker, does not matter if it regarded as exceeding? Maybe the slip knot is so it can be released when jams to the rig, so what does the rope guys do then if procedure conflicts (never mind exceed or not) is conflicting and deviating from maker instruction?
For me I would stick to maker instructions as they know more for technical limits of their gear. Just opinion of working rope guy.
Hey,
At the end of the day, you should follow your company procedures. As you take on the personal liability if you deviate from them if anything were to happen.
Why do I think the mechanical advantage setup you used is only a two to one and not a three to one. Rule one of mechanical advantage states when haul line is tied to an anchor it’s even. Rule three states the haul line when through a pulley and is attached at the anchor it’s just a change of direction. In your set up the Rig would be the load! And the figure 8 with biner, the anchor. The basic with rollclip is attached to the anchor line. If you took the basic out and went straight to the biner with the figure 8 with the rollclip it would be the same. Is this a 2 : 1 or 3 : 1 ? Please elaborate to help me understand thank you for your time 🙏🏻
Hey there,
Thank you for your message.
Under the rules of the Mechanical advantage.. If it is terminated at the load (the moving load) it's an odd number. If it's terminated at the anchor (the non-moving location) it's an even number.
So, in all accounts here. It could be either-or. However, when you tell people to rig up a 3:1 this is what you will get.
Please note. There's no moving object here, therefor it doesn't matter what you want to call it.
Cheers,
Mikey
It was a stated 3:1 used in that vid, however the actual mechanical advantage of a z rig where the auto bloc is a large cam descender is certainly less than x 3 although we label it such. Less so again if the rope is hairy dirty and or damp. If you closely observe what is happening at the descender when the mobile clutch is being hauled under load you should often observe the rope being gathered in in a delayed fashion around the cam. ie you haul the system but the system takes a moment to gather all the captured rope in the system taught as it overcomes the friction.This means that for at least a part of the haul cycle the only part of the hauling system acting on the load is the 2:1 hauling the mobile clutch/the basic.
In rope access the only hauling systems we use are either z rigs nominal 3:1, piggy backed z rigs nominal 9:1, or nominal 2:1, z rig assisted 2:1 (6:1), or go hog wild with a piggyback z rig assisted 2:1 for a whopping 18:1, I therefore characterising/describing mechanical advantage in terms of crane block rigging, as there's a tendency to confuse the training message. Better in my opinion to focus on practical manifestations, mobile clutch, rather than vaguely related theory.
The vid: I would add that I'm not keen on tying and clipping a knotted bight of slack rope back to the anchor assembly. My reasoning is that in the event of slippage under load, to the extent that the slack rope becomes fast against the descender and assembly components, recovering the system becomes more complicated than necessary, slipknot with a retaining crab, preferring either a, fig 8 on the bight or an alpine. This comes down to personal preference though.
@@uilleachan Some great points here. But when it comes to tension lines and tensioning them. Your pulling at hairs trying to figure out the true MA. Every device is different, the rope is different and the list goes on.
The point of this video is to give some guidance on the matter.
As for clipping back the knot, I don't care as stated, if you want to tie 8s or alpine. This also depends on if the manufacturer requires you to do anything at all.
All and All thank you for your comment. Keep it up.
I enjoy these chats.
Cheers
Mikey
Uilleachan great information man 👌🏽
The way I see it in this video.... if you take the rig off the anchor it’s on and let it hang under the figure 8 knot, still anchored, then put that basic and roll clip on the anchored line as in the video it’s 2 : 1 also assuming that the progress capture device “the rig” and the change of direction pulley “the roll clip” both have 100% efficiency from friction!
With it being on the other wall horizontally, the rig was slack then after using the mechanical advantage set up, the rig is the moving pulley! So it’s still 2:1 This is my thinking! I now want to make a video lol 😂 I actually plan on making some videos on mechanical advantage and how to tie knots efficiently and related topics! Thanks for your input I love information ℹ️
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 I refer to the z rig as a 3:1 even though I know that it it isn't really, well not using a descender as the bloc. Using the descender evolved from using ascenders and became popular as it misses out the change over to descender step for lowering, but that additional utility comes at the expense of efficiency. Still it's a worthy trade off.
Try rigging a haul using an ascender as the block (with a pulley fitted to the same crab that connects the ascender to the anchor) to feel the difference in use between the two, which I find more than tangible.
I got a minor discrepancy for not tying the tension lines back with a figure 8 a few years ago
Well that shouldn’t have happened. Providing you had something there.
@@theropeaccessandclimbingpo2380 yeah, he told me it was because the ID wasn't strong enough to meet the requirements, I didn't argue much because it was the only discrepancy and I already pass, but is good to know. Thanks for the video!
It’s not the anchorage...
You don’t tie off the ID on your harness... Why would you need to there...
But yes, better to take the discrepancy, and walk away.
OtherBut then you take 2 more incorrect penalty and lose your ticket. Other choice maybe to get maker instruction and show the evaluator and then agree with discrepancy but make comment to eccrediting body that you got penalty for sticking to maker instructions. Sounds my friend like you have more knowledge than the other guy!
If u don't have Descender, then how u tight to tension the rope
Depends on your company procedures…
I can not comment on that
Prusik and a pulley will do the job nicely
czcams.com/video/MxiYYEBHo0Q/video.html
progress capture is what it's called - another nice example ---> czcams.com/video/tuttcnJOUI4/video.html
you can use any sort of trucker's hitch or progress capture technique. Its important that the system you chose allows slippage under large loads though. Examples of things that would not allow slippage are things like tooth devices.