Commodore Intermittent No Crank MiracleMAX
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- čas přidán 7. 08. 2024
- There is only one thing worse than you vehicle not starting - the vehicle not starting when your wife is driving!
This customer has and intermittent no crank/no start complaint with his Commodore and his wife has had the issue several times as well. Best to get it sorted before it gets worse.
Simple!
Sometimes there is more than one fault that creates the issues the customer is having with their vehicle. This Commodore has several common faults creating this no crank issue.
How do you determine where the faults exist? Follow along and see!
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Just a note to say that your videos are a master class in applied thinking. Very very helpful & thanks from NZ.
Hey Tizard Design,
Thanks for your kind words from over the ditch!
A lot of what I share if what I have learned from others, but I do try and think outside of the box to make explanations easier for my students and to apply tests with the limited equipment I have in my own workshop.
Thanks again for your comments
MiracleMAX
Awesome thank you
You are welcome
Hi Max Awesome video .. I will certainly be adding extra earths to 2004 VZ SV8 as theres a guy in the USA that has the same type of motor gearbox but in the pontiac gto of the same year and the same fly by wire setup for the throttle and throttle body combination. He said to add as many earths every where I can & it will stop the problem I'm having the same as he was. Mine goes into safety mode (limp mode) every now and then and it reduces the power to the motor as safety mode does. It even plays a little jingle along with it (which i bloody hate haha) so no matter wjere i am i have to pull over and stop the car. I take out the key ,, lock the car with the fob ,, unlock it ,, lock it again ,,, unlock it 1 more time , put the key back in and off it goes out & goes out of safety mode and goes like a dream.
The damn thing also likes to do this safety mode thing and pulls up at bus stops for some uncanny reason (maybe just a coincidence) so it got named the bus stop car hahaha..
I have had it on some laptop type scan tools and the dearest of scan tools from mechanics that deal with just these type of V8 SS's and even on a holden scan tool and does not show up any fault codes and even when it is in limp mode.
Ive been told it could be the fbw pedal and is not communicating properly with the throttle body (ive replaced that bit and put a new 1 on it and it did stop for a wgile then back,tp normal bjr 4 bus stops in a row pfffttt).
The actual manual for the sv8 says to take it holden for proper analysis. I did that and no fault codes thrown. Grrrrrr ...
I watched another video you made on checking to see if the the starter on this sv8 and what you taught me about testing where the starter relay goes in to loop it i to the top hole with male spades and the right spade 86 and 30 so I tried that and i was as happy as apig in shit as the car actually started up so that led me to believe it was the ignition starter switch so I replaced that and starts first kick every time now.
Thnakyou soo much for making & showing these videos to us as they are soooo handy to get some knowledge without having to spend 100's or thousands of
$$$ or get shonked over from a bodgey fixer upperer hahha.
Cheers and thanks again from John.
Glad to hear that you are getting some use out of the videos! It can be very difficult when you don't get any fault codes to guide you. Generally, things like Throttle Body issues as well as Pedal Position Sensors would come up with a code.
Everyone always checks for power in a circuit, but forget about the ground. But that is just as important as that completes the circuit. One important test is a voltage drop test on both the positive and negative side of the circuit. That might help you locate if you have a faulty ground circuit.
czcams.com/video/gX5djxG24oI/video.html
Thanks for your comments
Thanks for the video
You are welcome - I hope it was helpful.
@@MiracleMAX well it definitely gave me a few new things for me to check and see which a part of what youtube channels r for so again thank u for helping build my knowledge about potential problems with vz commodores.
Would u say that most of those issues in ur video would be the similar to say vt,vx,vy series or only for vz and ve,vf commodores.
@@merlintroy I have other videos on Commodore faults. I will have a VZ Commodore video out in a while dealing on a faulty ECM, so stay tuned!
@@merlintroy I hope it works out well for you 👍
@@merlintroy I'm not fussy on which car manufacturer, but make a living off bad designs. In case you are interested, I do electronic repairs as well, which is listed on a separate playlist. Look forward to seeing your progress
Thanks Max, My story lined up with your customers.... Wifes VZ Wagon was a no start before daughters Basketball... disaster!! Of course I turned up and it started straight away.. (greater disaster!!). You were spot on the relay, was burnt to blazes. Thanks for saving the marriage :-)
Hey Brett,
Glad the video helped. I do have some other VZ Commodore videos on the channel that might interest you. 😊
MiracleMAX
max good video presentation clear concise bit of humor and know your stuff no gimmicks very methodical and informative as to fault tracing and more importantly fault determination
Hey John,
Thanks for your comment. I love a challenge and to get the old grey matter working. Just like you said finding the fault is one thing, finding the cause is another thing - the most important thing.
MiracleMAX
Simple and easy to understand. Great information thank you
Thanks Aaron,
I'm glad the video was helpful 😊
MiracleMAX
VERY helpful. Many thanks!
You are welcome Karlosss,
I have other videos on the channel with this model that you might enjoy! 😊
You’re a legend, I replaced a $15 relay to solve this issue, saved me $200 in tow fees alone.
Glad I could help! 😁
Great video, certainly helped me.
Thanks, I'm glad I could help!
Like your work Miracle Max👍
Cheers Mate, Thanks! 😁
Great job max love the video
Thanks Michael,
Gratefully appreciate the comment! 😊
I hope you benefit from other videos on the channel
MiracleMAX
Your genius... i was watching your video as my holden struggles to start. Earlier it was intermittent now it has totally given up. Will go now and check the relay. I have also pulled off slip ring in my case and drove it that way for a while. 😂
Hey MUHAM,
I hope the video helps you to find the fault & carry out the repair. 😊
MiracleMAX i hope.. but after playing with relays.. putting slip ring back.. no luck with the engine crank up. I suspect its a bad starter motor. But i changed it exactly an year ago. Also my car while running stalls at low RPM. In few weeks the car got total mess. 😞 Too disappointed. No great mechanics in my city (saudi arabia)
@@Mechrank Have you checked the powers and grounds doing a voltage drop test as shown in the video? Do you have good powers and grounds to the ECU?
Thanks mate spot on 👍
Cheers, glad it helped!
Very helpful
Glad it helped Brian! 😉
Sorted good job again
Hey Ian,
With this sort of fault, you have to start with the obvious and work your way thru until you have sorted all the faults. I learned a lot on this one
Thanks for your comments
MiracleMAX
Firstly I’d like to say thanks for taking the time to explain these issues
I have a vz Calais with only 74,000 klms that I brought which had a minor front end crash
I have the very low fuel warning and no crank issue
I removed start relay and by bridging with wire it will crank but not fire
I brought a ECU, BCM, PIM and keyhead from a working Calais but still does the same thing
I have noticed that there doesn’t seem to be any fuel pressure in lines and haven’t heard fuel pump turn on
Would it be possible fuel pump is the issue?
Any help would be highly appreciated
Thanks
Hey _donksrevvin Ords,
To be able to have a running engine, you need 3 things- Air, Fuel & Heat. If you have no fuel, then it will not run. What testing have you done to see if there is fuel in the lines? You should be able to hear a buzz noise near the fuel tank for at least 2 seconds when the ignition is turned on.
Can you spray a small amount (this is done at your own risk) of some Aerostart into the intake duct & see if it at least tries to start? That would direct you to a fuel issue. Is the fuel pump fuse OK?
So you have spark?
However, that would not explain your no crank issue. Do the lights dull when you go to the crank position? Is the immobiliser light on or flashing? Are there any fault codes in any of the systems? Are the main & fuel pump relays working correctly?
Let us know what you find. 😉
Hi max thanks for your reply
I have put a multimeter on fuel pump fuse and battery negative and it has 12.5 volts so I think it is the pump
It has sat around for a year or so too
I have had someone turn ignition on and off multiple times while I lay underneath fuel tank and never heard it turn on
The PIM turns fuel pump on I think?
By taking start relay out and bridging it to crank it should start correct?
I have checked fuses relays etc
It may be possible that the second hand ecu etc may not have been working as I can only go off the person’s word I brought it off that it was working
The fact that the car was driving to be crashed in first place makes me wonder how ecu etc would just stop working
@@_donksrevvinords4453 We are doing 'Starting Systems' at the college where I teach at the moment. We did that test on a VT Commodore today. As long as the ignition was turned on, bypassing the relay would start the engine. Are you getting the start signal from the ECU? Do you have a scan tool? Also, keep in mind that the ECUs you have fitted may need to be calibrated. The correct numbers will need to be put in using a scan tool.
Good job, Mark! I like my older and simpler auto. I would rather have multi-port fuel injection though instead of the TBI setup.
Hey Robert, these are a multiport injection. Much older cars here in Australia had Throttle Body Injection. The only one that regularly spings to mind is the EA Falcon. A mungrel at idle and cold starting issues. MPI is by far the better choice.......now we have Direct Injection to deal with! :)
Thanks for your comments.
Mine runs good. I rebuilt the TBI several years ago myself. The only problem that I have with it is that the TPS only lasts for about 2 to 3 years and I have to replace it with a new one.
MPI is a little bit more involved but I would get maybe 40 or so more horsepower from it than I get from the TBI unit.
@@robertcalkjr.8325 Is the throttle shaft worn, making the TPS wear out? That's unusual.
It didn't seem like it when I rebuilt the TBI, but it might be. It is a "87 Chevy Van with a 350. Next time it needs rebuilt I will just replace it with a new unit or just sell it and buy a "90 or so model van with MPI.
@@robertcalkjr.8325 1987 - You have done well. There does become a time when you have to decide whether to throw more money at it or replace it. It can be a tough choice if you like the vehicle.
Seriously helpful and easy to understand. Thank you!
Thanks for your kind words Libby Ivory 😉
Please suggest me a good fault Code reader for holden commodore vz sv6.
Hey MUHAM,
It is really difficult to make a suggestion as I don't know all scan tool/code reader capabilities.
Depending on how deep your pocket is, you could try a Launch for a cheaper reader.
The best thing to do is go to their site and find out what the units do & what vehicles they suit, if you can update their software, warranty and other information.
Other end of the scale are SnapOn, GScan etc.
MiracleMAX
Good day Mark, I hope you are doing well. Great video!
I have a Chevrolet Lumina SS 5.7L V8 2005 model (only in Southern Africa) which is basically a Holden Commodore in Australia (not sure if it's a VZ or any other model)
It has intermittent starting issues as well, if you switch on the the ignition all lights goes on, fuel gauge doesn't lift and warning of 'very low fuel' comes on. If you start it, it crancks but no start, after a few turns it will eventually start and idle but not with its normal power and idle will eventually drop and switch off. I switched out the relays that seemed burnt, but problem still exists. Could it be the ECU or perhaps ground wires, not sure. Please advise. Thank you.
Hey Jacques Armand de Waal,
When it does stall and doesn't restart, have you checked if it has spark? What is the fuel pressure? Is there a voltage drop to the fuel pump? What is the voltage at the pump? Are there any stored fault codes? When it does start, does the fuel gauge come up?
MiracleMAX
@@MiracleMAX Thanks for the reply.
I haven't done any voltage checks yet, the fuel gauge doesn't lift when it's running. It does have spark when I try to start it again. I guess I have to do a fuel pressure check. No fault codes thus far.
@@Jakkiebascos I would certainly focus on the fuel pump at this point, including pressures, voltage drop and current. How many kilometres has the vehicle done?
@@MiracleMAX It currently sits on a little more than 134 000 km. I have removed the tank to check the fuel pump but didn't do a voltage or pressure check, will definitely look into it. I tried to bridge the relay and it started without hesitation. I really need to know if it could be the ECU but have to do everything to make sure. Thank you once again for your help and patience.
@@Jakkiebascos Have you replaced the fuel pump relay? If you have bypassed it, it could be a faulty relay, a voltage drop or a poor switching circuit. What voltage is at the control side of the relay (is it system voltage) and is the switching working correctly - is the ground being pulled down to 0 volts?
Having same problem with my vz and is driving me nuts. Changed slip ring, battery , key and door locks. Still does it about once a month or when most inconvenient. Always starts after a while of opening and shitting doors. Where is your business located?
Does it crank at all or just click? Or do just the red lights come on the dash and no more?
You can contact me at miraclemax3@hotmail.com
@@MiracleMAX 99 per cent of the time the car goes great. Every now and then you turn the key and nothing lights on dash are fine. We open and shut the doors wait five minutes and it starts and then runs great until next time. It hasn't not started once after waiting. No mechanic or auto electrician we have taken it to can fix it. It is driving me nuts.
@@movieklump can you send me an Email please 🤗
Can you help me? 2005 vz v6. Car sat for 4 months. Got new battery for it. Turned it on and drove it to mechanic so I could get service/rwc for sale. Mechanics next morning called, said car doesn't start. They spelt 4 hours looking. Can't find reason why. No error codes, no bad fuses/relays etc. Key works, locks/unlocks and gives power to car etc. When turning key on fully it does nothing there's no sound no crank no relay sound etc. Immobiliser light is turned off implying it should work.
Hey Jon ZX,
Firstly, do you have access to a scan tool? You should be able to see if the slip ring is being activated or not. You need to see if you are getting power to the ECU. Can you bypass the starter relay and see if it starts? Are you using the same key as before? This system use a rolling code to ensure you have the correct key.
What were the mechanics doing at the time that it wouldn't restart?
I hope that gives you a starting point toward your repair.
MiracleMAX
86 Max! Sorry 'bout that Chief...
Sorry, didn't get that one.....
How do I fix the fuel gauge error witch says contact dealer on the dashboard
What testing have you done so far? Have you tested the sender unit?
Not start, fuel gauge, error ABS, powertrain. Relay jumper, start ok. Whats is ecu? Wiring? Pim?
Where fuiz traction and esp? Holden v6 3.6
Sorry, I'm not sure I understand what you are asking.
@@MiracleMAX traction control
@@MiracleMAX how to remove traction control holden v6 3.6 alloytec
I want drift
@@Respect-yc1pv The data providers I use are Autodata & Haynes. They should be able to provide you with all the information you need.
replace this and that and still not sure if the fault was found. maybe. the customer will tell you in a a few months, or go somewhere else -)
After thorough testing this vehicle was diagnosed and repaired. The customer has reported 2 years later that it has no problem and was very happy with the repair.
Thanks for your comment.
MiracleMAX