Why is NATO not taking Combat Drones seriously? | CV90 COUNTER UAS CAPABILITY
Vložit
- čas přidán 7. 05. 2023
- Drones are deadly today against Infantry and infantry fighting vehicles that join them in battle. But why is that? And why is are militaries not taking them as seriously as they should?
CV90 has been making strides in terms of UAS or drone defense. Let's take a look!
Hope you enjoy!!
💥 💣 Check out our partnership clothing brand! Attire For Effect💣 💥 www.attireforeffect.com 📸 Also follow them on Instagram: # attire_for_effect
💰 Want to support my channel? Check out my Patreon Donation page! www.patreon.com/user?u=3081754
💰PayPal: paypal.me/Matsimus?locale.x=e...
👕 Check out my Merch: teespring.com/stores/matsimus...
📬Wanna send me something? My PO Box: 210A - 12A Street N Suite No. 135 Lethbridge Alberta Canada T1H2J
📸 My instagram: Matt_matsimus
🎮 Twitch: / matsimus_9033
👋DISCORD: / discord
📘 Facebook: profile.php?...
🐦Twitter: / matsimusgaming - Věda a technologie
"Can't you just hear the drones?" Me after a lifetime around heavy equipment: "WHAT!?"
You can't even hear them on a battlefield any way. Throw in wind and rustling trees! You have no chance. They can fly 30-40m over your head and you'll never hear it.
I hadn't given it much thought but it's true , on a battlefield it would be impossible to isolate the sound
Yeah, that's completely understandable. Nevermind hearing the drone over the sound of all that machinery, you probably won't be hearing them over your own breathing after hiking around in full combat gear all day.
lol Im laughing at your comment. Not the fact that your hearing is damaged. Im only 37 and people are telling me to not speak as loud so I wouldent be surprised if I need my hearing checked or even hearing aids. What did I do to my ears ? Iv been to more Rock concerts then I can count. I "use to" shoot my gun without hearing protection but I changed my ways in that. I think im just getting older bud lol
@V4 Skunk can confirm..some of these drones they're using are similar to the ones my buddies use for photography and I was surprised how close they can get until I can hear them. It's ridiculous!
That automatic visual scan for aerial targets seems like nice to have at modern battlefield.
I would say that its probobly even a necessity.
Russia don´t use as much small drones, but if they did, Ukraine would probobly be in quite some problem.
Its not like other armies have not taken drone seriously. They very much have. But they mostly thought of them in the offensive sense, not the defensive.
Its very asymmetric in the way that its way easier to use offensive than defensive.
I imagine that automatic omnidirectional visual and thermal scan will become important, as that seems like the only solution that will work at night too, especially with multiple platforms so you can defend against other platform's blind spots eg the sun.
Especially when your doctrine requires your infantry to look out of the hatches of your IFV most of the time
@@matsv201Russia has and does. Have you not been seeing the constant use of loitering munitions and their own deployment or reconnaissance drones?
They use more drones than Ukraine does.
With AFVs it's rather easy to fall into the trap of only looking at the hard factors but one of the most important soft factors that has decided a number of engagements historically is situational awareness. even if you look at a video game such as warthunder, where you have unrealistically good visibility compared to real vehicles, the first to spot often decides who comes out on top. If you look at the 6-day war, Israel deliberately trained crews to engage at longer ranges where good sights were key while the arab league used soviet tanks with night vision systems. How each was used and crew quality ended up deciding how each faired. The soviet MBTs for a while actually had a lead on night vision creating a key distinction on situational awareness.
An automatic visual scan, essentially provides several advantages:
- It in essence adds the situational awareness of near another crew member to the AFV
- The information from that scan is networked to other AFVs, raising their situational awareness
- That awareness capability is not diminished by buttoning up, unlike early in the cold war when this was carried out by a crew member of the AFV
If anything, There will be more use of cameras and automated detection in modern AFVs with the move to integrate drone systems into AFVs. This is due to said drones when in use adding cognitive load to crews that automation can reduce. Crews could even operate multiple drones at once for some terrifying capabilities once networked to artillery. Multiple drones being in the air could rival the awareness that having dismounted infantry provides for support against anti-tank teams.
As a former CV90 operator I was really glad to have the programmable smart munitions. It gives platoon or even a section level unit some organic AA capability that is cost effective against such cheap drones.
We can argue about sensors all day(some comments i read before posting this) but the fact of the matter is when a CV90 is on the field, and it has its smart munitions, the drone operator needs to be much more careful.
I can attest to the fact how well a trained gunner is able to track air targets with the CV90 fire control system.
Specifically I'm a former CV9035 driver(more)/gunner(less) but we were trained on all crew positions of the vehicle.
Do the cv90 going to Ukraine has this capacity?
So, what about its gun elevation then? Don't you have a massive dead zone over head?
@@user-dp4ok9ox5w I'm guessing it just gives u an alert and u could just blast it with your rifle. Hope opening the hatch doesn't get u killed.
@@user-dp4ok9ox5w The point is that i should not get above you, you or another vehicle should spot it before that. CV90 are not going alone, but is a unit of other cv90 or other vechicles. There are not many plattforms that fire straight up, and no plattform is 100% great at everything.
@@tooboukou8ball702 I don't know. My guess is no(and I can be very wrong) but let me elaborate.
I'm a former operator of CV9035 (which you can see in this promotional video with the bushmaster 3 cannon) and it had an ammunition programmer on the end of the barrel (German Puma IFV has a similar element on its barrel tip). That programmer is what enables the use of smart ammo.
From what I understand Sweden is sending CV9040 (with the 40mm Bofors cannon). And I cannot see such an ammunition programmer but from what I've heard such an ammunition programmer can be inside the vehicle. And Sweden may have them since CV9040 has a dedicated SPAAG version for AA work. Without a (former) Swedish CV9040 operator to talk to I can only guess.
But the lack of any programmable munitions does not mean the CV90 can't do AA with. All CV90 IFVs are equipped with the UTAAS sight as said in the video and it means "universal tank and anti-aircraft sight" (if I remember it right) and it comes with a fire control system capable of dealing with both vehicles and aircraft. The gunner only needs to maintain target, laze it, and fire. The computer will do all the work of calculating lead and aiming the gun.
This reminded me of when my unit in Iraq was assaulting in the City of Najaf and my Bradley A3 was parked in an alley near a 2 story building. We were at an intersection in order to engage enemy RPG teams that were denying our Tanks on the flank access. Now, back to the alley and the building. I started hearing explosions that were really close but I could not, and nor could the CDR, find or identify the origin. Turns out, it was an enemy turd on the roof of the building next to us dropping hand grenades on the turret. Imagining a 1lb Shaped Charge instead of a hand grenade is chilling. It would cut through the roof of the Bradley A3 with it's added protection like a hot knife through butter. This threat is real and will become ever more present as it's not hard to get ahold of or even design and make the deployment systems - UAS's if you will. I do hope this threat is taken far more seriously by all NATO members and members of friendly countries.
With a time fuzed amo you can kill enemies that hide behind corners, walls or rooftops.
in the new age of drone warfare tanks will be little more than expensive mobile metal coffins.
@@len2063This is Iraq. That stuff, especially on the go programmable rounds (meaning the ammunition loading mechanism itself is setting the fuse for each round so long the gunner clicks laser range finder before) was in the very very early stages of development. What could’ve been actually done is launched a RQ-20 Puma in less than a few minutes, locate him with thermal have the drone send the coordinates back to the infantry on the ground and smash some AP or MP-T rounds through the wall he was hiding behind. All of that was a capability of the US military even in the early 2000s. Something that no other military had but no we seem to be seriously lacking integrated counter UAS to all armored vehicles. Even the CROWS remote weapon stations could easily be programmed for counter UAS with their advanced thermal imager and ballistic computer, you could just start taking these out when you saw them come over the horizon. The issue is Russian tank optics are extremely poor. They are able to detect people, vehicles, and other large heat sources but not small electronic drones.
Give me hours of CV90 content I dare you!
Some really interesting topics that I have not found covered that you might be able to shed some light onto is the armour rating system and its real world impact and the lack of air burst munitions being deployed both from a vehicle standpoint as well as artillery/mortar.
For the armour ratings I know there is a STANAG chart that covers the different tiers but what are the real world implications in terms of added weight, is it an issue for machining, tools or specific skillsets to go from protecting against say a 20mm vs a 30mm or higher.
In terms of the air burst munitions I have seen countless instances where traditional artillery has reduced effect because of terrain and an air burst would have solved the issue, same with smaller weapons like mortars or vehicle mounted systems like a 30mm autocannon. Why is there such a big capabilities gap, what systems are available and why does it seem that nobody is fielding these if they are available.
Detection of UAV and have the tool to eliminate is very important. A modern CV90 have the sensor power and cpu/gpu power to make it happen with a timed fuzed 35mm gun amo or a sensor fuzed 40mm gun amo.
With a platton of modern CV90 they can triangle in a UAV far-away without using active sensors.
I'd say that passive ability is critical. Sitting around blasting EM radiation all around is begging for a fire mission.
@@tickticktickBOOOOM indeed , all an enemy has to do is program it into anti radiation mode and then watch Netflicks
Never gonna happen.
Matt. I also am extremely impressed with the cv-90. Prior to the BAE Systems video you showed highlighting anti drone capabilities I believed it to be the smartest IFV sent to Ukraine.
I really love a minor detail in the movie. The soldiers you see are not regulars or conscript. They are members of the Homeguard, a volunteer organisation more in line with National Guard or Territorial army. The things that gives it away is their small arms, AK4, or as it is known internationally H&K G3. But some of the units are really well drilled and far from the old Dads army. I am a member myself. It is interesting that they choose to get a squad of Homeguard and not some mechanized infantry but like I said, some companies are really good. Everyone have prior military training, either as conscripts or as former regulars. So noyou one is a total rookie. This makes a difference, since what you do at the yearly exercises is maintaining skills and work on learning new without ever having to start from the ground up. We talk a lot drone and even the Homeguard will recive our own drones.
Isnt g3 German? Why they call it ak?
@@randomdude8202Yes it’s Germans, the Swedish armed forces renames all weapons with Swedish names AK stands for Automat Karbin (eng: Automatic Rifle) So now you know that not all AK’s are Russian 😊
Thanks for the info, i was wondering why they were running around with the G3.
@@hellmalm thanks
@@alolen6261 the rebuilt g3 for the swedish army has really good reviews from what i heard. Only problems ive heard of are some ergonomics
This has really opened my eyes as drones like these can be operated by practically any opponent in combat, anywhere from a small guerrilla group to an entire standing army, and you couldn’t have said it better when you talked about the threat of improvised devices now coming from above and not just below. Also loved that intro, keep it up brother 👊🔥
USMC has a new MOS called Squad Systems Operator and they do nothing but drones, quadcopters and UGVs
@@JinKee wow, that's news to me infact iam calling it now ; this is the future of infantry!
Rifles are going the way of spears soon , still useful but mostly useless
NATO is taking drones extremely seriously. Military bureucracy just moves at a snails pace, and I guess the research has been a bit niche up until now. It's going to take a while before drones are a ubiquitous part of a military.
I hope Ukraine has worked as a wake up call, and that the research will get some more funding now.
@@cedriceric9730exactly of the 100's of thousands of dead Russian soldiers in Ukraine I bet more have faced their demise as the result of a drone than a rifle.
easy for the US forces to jam drones, detect them with various radars, the US actually operates with air cover, and more. just becasue Ukraine and Russia struggle to counter drones, doesn't mean others can't deal with them.
other recent conflicts have used drones, and yet have not made the same impact as we see in Ukraine.
The CV90 platform has really changed and greatly improved it's capabilities since I was driving it back in 05
Indeed very relevant today and I agree, that little thought seems to be spent on how to deal with drones, UAS/UCAVs when on the receiving end.
Good thing the CV90 comes with this capability. However, it can be only be a first step of many more to take. Drones can pop up virtually anywhere and are low cost, whereas the defense against them is costly and needs to be dispersed over an entire area of operations, including the logistics hubs and artillery firing positions. And even then the question remains: how does one defend against swarm/saturation attacks? It would be nice if some sort of wide area EMP weapon would become available, taking out hundreds/thousands of them by TREE (transient effect on electronics) in a single pulse.
Small, cheap drones arguably offer more capability in more situations than the big boys, whether it’s for delivering munitions or for acting as a forward observer. Yeah, we can blast an area with EM radiation to find them but as another poster noted that basically turns you into an offering to the arty gods. And the problem with the Mark 1 Human Eyeball is that human senses are fairly bad. There’s a reason why law enforcement in many countries is training raptors to attack nuisance drones. They see a lot better than we do and have faster reactions.
Damn man. I've been off CZcams for a few months and you've completely changed the channel. This has gone next level. Awesome 👌🏼
Local area jamming, or targeted jamming in a cone shaped wave. These kits are not expensive and can be added to any existing vehicle by wiring them to the vehicle's battery.
Other option is a mini CIWS. Small calibre rounds are all that is needed, we're talking less than 100m engagement distances. The weapon would not have to be very large, and a short burst would take out any low cost drone currently in use.
4:02 even “dismounted”, in the middle of nowhere you could not hear it if there is some wind hitting your ears, and that’s with commercial drones, which are not made to be silent and used in warfare
Yeah i fly an old Parrot drone and that thing goes silent after 30meters unless I'm pushing it to full speed
Sweet weapons system. Its nice to see someone is taking the Drone threat seriously. Other militaries are going to get lots of losses before they take it serious. Its as if they are not watching the Drone usage in the Ukraine war. Its now one of the most versatile combat
econ systems on the battlefield right now.
imagine a swarm of tiny drones, each with an small explosive
Ukraine would have won the war already if west sent them 100000 drones equipped with grenades thats it
@@noapopimagine if west sent ukraine 100k comercial drones with grenades or if ukraine requested this instead of usless 10 leopards and f16
@@teodorcaraba979 drones don't yet have the mass to replace a tank gun, however real drone swarms will.
If one soldier can command 50 or more drones then they can fight multiple platoons like a tank
LOL at anyone who thinks Raytheon, General Dynamics, Lockheed Martin, etc doesn't already have humongous drone R&D budgets...
I am building and flying racing drones as a hobby: I doubt this will be enough but looks better then most things I have seen.
Thank you Matsimus for the insight on this platform! One of the newest features of the CV90 not shown here though (& subject of discussion) was the integrated drone support for remote targeting using a 5th. gen. Akeron MP ATGM (first test only very recently in Jan. 23'). A truly unique capability for any battlefield platform, really nothing like it. Ability to share targeting information with other vehicles (even troops) from an integrated UAS would be game changing - no doubt. Multiple CV90's each deploying their own UAS would provide an umbrella of protection. Also threats from directly overhead being engaged by a laser weapon a bit premature (high power lasers require a lot of energy - don't think tech. there yet for a system on such a small platform & would undoubtedly be very expensive when available). Think a current capabilities of targeted jamming of a UAV / UAS with 'enhanced' electronic capabilities on the CV90 would be a more practical solution. Example would be the handheld signal jammers currently employed by Ukrainian forces to take down / capture Russian drones has proven effective.
Everyone should be a CV90 fanboy!
Matsimus makes an excellent point. If you're on tank or riding on the back of a BTR, you will simply not hear the drone hovering above you at all. As a result of such, soldiers need to be retrained on constantly watching the skies above them because they could come from anywhere.
Good video, I think Rheinmetail also seems like they are taking the drone threat seriously! Drones do seem to be a huge threat that seems hard to counter!
Everybody does in a different way, the title is misleading while the video itself is informative.
The CV90 surely does bring a LOT to the mechanized Squad level far beyond drone defense.
@@ArgelTal_no they dont the fact that us abrams tank has no drone for top down vision of surroundings is mind blowing, also us switchblade is a such a joke ukraine fpv drones made those look so bad
@@teodorcaraba979 The difference is in air supremacy. The battlefield in Ukraine is that of air denial, which both sides cannot break through. Without air superiority, drones become dangerous. With air superiority or supremacy, which is NATO's combat doctrine, the ground troops go in after the entire air campaign has destroyed the enemy. The Abrams will have a theatre-wide AWACS, a local AWACs, close air support and UAV support scanning the area, then it goes in.
Air superiority seriously changes the equation on the battlefield. The FPVs are effective because the Ukrainians can't just call in F-35 strikes on everything with precision or Rapid Dragon strikes before they move in. They don't have control of the airspace. The US can do that at will with air supremacy, so they just need the Switchblade to precisely take out what little is left of the enemy in between waves of bomber strikes, PGMs, cruise missiles, and helo or UAV CAS.
@@aegisghost With the incredible saturation of surface to air systems on the modern battlefield, conventional air superiority is nigh impossible
@@brigadgeneralvoid2508
I find your views on this quite interesting, especially with the 'saturation' of SAM systems. What kind of SAM systems were you referring to, what kind of battlefield were you referencing, and what kind of attacking airpower did you have in mind?
An overwhelming array of options exist to degrade and destroy an IADS, ranging from HARMs to saturation strikes by cruise missiles, to precision strikes by stealth fighters or UAVs. While SHORAD can still come into play under the enemy's air supremacy (see Coalition air losses over Iraq circa 2003 despite having air supremacy), the majority of, if not all, long and mid-ranged SAM networks can be overwhelmed, degraded and destroyed.
I’m a fan on these. Think this would make a massive difference and think it’s the best in its class.
Real first hand information help your review of the systems no end, I saw your CV 90 review the other month and that showed a really impressive offence weapons and optics system for this platform. This vid and your review of highlights attitudes that BAE Systems have rev’d up to encompass the battle field truths that have now got to be faced. are we, the UK forces facing these truths when it comes to the Boxer, Ajax and the Challenger III yet. Could they get hold of a strap on system that would be easy to fit and still be enabled for battlefield awareness linking which on the future battlefield will need to be an important underpinning for all fighting vehicles both small to MBT sizes?? Or need this be a retrofit after the first roll outs which is desperately needed. This needs to be brought to the procurers attention as you have stated.
Cheers Aah Kid. A really honest appraisal and to be honest a wake up call.
The most innovative thing I got from this BAE video was the simple foot loop... so many AFV's I have experienced have limited options for mounting. A wheel, tread, or needing to bodily slide onto the deck or glacis and "roll up" hoping there was a lifting ring or something else "insensitive" to use as a hold was the norm. Not cool, with gear, especially with all the million-dollar protuberances on modern machines. A few had little "boot flaps" in the skirt, but only a few. It always seemed that the designers never factored into the design how to actually get in/on the thing.
I feel like on the CV90 platform they should be able to create a cord-driven drone with radar. You send it 30-50m straight up in the air with the whole radar and scanning kit hanging on a drone and you are able to observe the territory much further than having the scanning and radar directly on a fighting CV90. Put a few of them in the back of the pack and youll have a good pre-warning for the fighting CV90s. It would of course require a large drone, which is why it probably need to be cord-driven by the power systems of the CV90 itself.
This is very good coverage for BAE. Well deserved too, CV90 Mark 4 is next gen.
More CV90 👍🏻
The CV90 with that gun the Bofors in particular (I like the latest version cv90/4 ) is the best armoured troop carrier vehicle as shown on the market today just like the other vehicle I love is that Boxer wheeled vehicle the video of its drive across the lake makes it is the best in its group of vehicles. Thankfully UK is slowly having delivery of the boxer (not the swimmer version pity UK) why haven't we seen the light over buying the CV90 only god above knows why and he's not telling .🇨🇦🤜🤛🏴🏴🏴 nice to see you settling in Canada!
Norway's CV9030N Mk3b even have it's own drone, and it is talk about them getting adjusted/upgraded to the Mk4-standard, since the changes needed are not much and Norway did most of the upgrade in Norway, so now it's just about "eat while it's hot".
What I do like about the Norwegian CV9030N Mk3b, is in addition to the improved armor (HEAT anti-tank protection). But the main thing is it is equipped with Protector RWS with improved optics, armed with 12.7mm and grenades (there is a variant with rocket's as well, have yet to see it!), the other thing I like is that the 30mm gun is belt feed and there is "SO MUCH AMMO", it take some time to empty that magazine! You can fire for 3+minuts on full auto... if you haven't manage to do what you are supposed to do within those 3+min (in real world 10-15 min), you are fucked!
I do also like that they upgraded the engine to 910 hp and increased the range to 1150km.
Former CV90 commander here. Will stay brief - this is a serious weapon. If used right with air and heavy armor it's as nasty as can get.
I agree with these types of systems. Don’t care which company is behind them. Just get them out to protect our troops. However, there is also a need for smaller truck based (or similar sized vehicles) that are side by side in the general area of the dismounted or dug in troops. Something quick, light and small.
I think NATO has a doctrinal issue. This is a novel new and evolving Capability. Covering a broad spectrum of requirements. A great deal of uses including reconnaissance artillery control direct attack and many more aspects of combat. I can see in the future that drones are part of an armored vehicle's package. Part of an integrated system. With a I imagine the integrated possibilities of this technology. ,nders would be able to capture the integrated flow of the battle space and unbelievable depth. I used the a I term as it would be too complex for a human being with the volume of information to be able to make good determinations Is in very complex situations. I have had over forty years of experience in the munitions worldd this is a game changer. Instead of set doctrine we should have fluid doctrine to match the technology at the time. I may also point out this was from the bottom up. An extreme force multiplayer from the youth of their nation. In your world artillery spotting this may be a real game changer for us here in canada. This proves a point that technological innovation should be put into doctrine during active combat. Good assault provoking content this video.
Russo-Ukraine war actually opened up the fact that both the NATO doctrine and Russian Doctrine of Defense/Combined Arms Warfare is obsolete in today's environment of Drones.
As usual Matt top drawer production
Brings up a question: would this perhaps be a good way to counter top attack munitions such as Javelin? With the laser and the imaging technology on top I feel like it might have a chance against a javelin top attack
What I like about your vids is the passion. You never sound like a scripted AI generated voice.
Dang, this stuffs crazy! I took a class on drones, drone programming, and even normal drone piloting in school, and this stuff just shows how that education actually applies to irl.
Lol
I love the footage here, like really modern vehicles, but infantry of course running around with old workhorse guns.
That thermal armor is the coolest thing I think i've ever seen.
EOS T2000 direct energy turret is designed for the purpose you speak of. I agree with you
When I did my military service in the mid 90:s as a platoon commander for a heavy transport platoon. The CV90 provided us with good AA protection if needed, while loaded on the back of the trucks. According to the gunners of the CV90 that is. Looked easy enough to me.
hi, we are contracting CV90 for army in Czechia, very good tech, very good capabilities. With F-35s, we are going to be serious again. THX for vids
CV90 is the best ifv out there righr now.
Matt-I really enjoy and appreciate all your work. I'm a former Canadian soldier and really wish we'd buy the CV90, but as this is Canada it's a pipe dream...unless you have any pull? No? Too bad😢
9:28
Plus there are new blades that are much more silent ! The two blades are shaped like a " V ", im not sure if they provide more lift then the regular ones but they do fly and they are very very silent. Scary times indeed.
I've read that the cv90, particularly the 40mm variant, has a bad elevation angle compared to other IFVs. Software an network is super important, but also been able to aim the gun at the target.
CV90's does not operate alone, and with buddies around and the networking capability, the unit can easily deal with any drone (spotted). Cheers.
it's all about drones not being able to see you and locate you, i.e. being able to have an invisible shield around you by, among other things, disrupting the drone
I live in Canada and work outside beside the river unloading ships. It sucks so bad in winter, the -20c become a -30c plus the wind. I get rained on, snowed on, freezing rain, yet snow on the face etc.
I just can't imagine fighting in these conditions, yerk.
This was actually a good question
I’d love to have a go with my FPV drones engaging something like this. I reckon travelling at 80mph at
I love that these guys and girls in the video use the AK4C (HK G3 variant) wich is the main weapon for the Swedish Home Guard.
Nice vid.
When a small drone operated on squad level can carry shaped charge munitions (they can and have, RKG for example and even larger shells) its really a huge game changer for threat to armor. Would be interested to know how well jamming actually works for keeping out small drones. Does it cover front lines or is it just used for larger positions?
Jamming is one solution yes, but you want to operate drones as well which gets a lot harder if you are at the same time trying to jam the enemy. As always is it a race between weapons and other systems and the race just get faster and faster.
Jamming won't work if the drone has AI on board, thats when it's going to get real scary. We are already capable of building these.....
@@cesiumalloy It depends on what and how you are jamming. Different sensors can be fooled in different ways. Like I said, there will always be a race between systems and counter systems.
@@drosendahl How can you "jam" an autonomous clever drone?
I agree, this should be a upfront problem.
Well I remember hearing a story of a Marsoc guy his unit was being either hit or reconned with drones they just called up the companies DJI, etc. Got a certain frequency used it and were just dropping the drones out of the sky. Even used the SD card inside the drone to find out where the enemy was and targeted them with mortars.
I remember that kmw showed an anti drone thing for the Puma RCWS. Man i would love that on a Puma but i know it means 20 mio more per tank/ifv 😅
A couple of countries are developing active defence systems for vehicles to deal with things like drones and portable anti-vehicle missiles.
3:50 Toroidal propellers has become a thing now as well. And they are making drones even more silent and capable of traveling longer on the same energy
Economically speaking. A proximity or range detonating shell is probably one of the most economical ways to deal with a small inexpensive drone. Adapting stuff we already have such as air-burst munitions to take out drones seems like a really viable alternative to some of the more niche and expensive methods I've seen proposed.
Drones with long loiter time whose main job is to detect other drones and relay targeting info to ground based platforms could also be a great counter against enemy approaching drones. There's plenty of platforms that could shoot at drones if they could detect them, but networked detection is the key ingredient
Irst sensor suites like the one on the wiesel combined with say a 40mm prox fuse round would be almost ideal for taking care of the drone threat.
the cammo looks so freakin cool
I can't help wondering if Hostile Fire Indicators might be adapted to give early warning of incoming drones?
Also, why is the UK still effing around with Ajax when this vehicle is available?
I agree - drones have come to represent an extremely cost effective scouting and harassment option - the fast adopters will get a real force multiplier out of them until the tech becomes unbiquitous.
Big fan of high elevation angle that TCA ammo can shoot at, in a compact remote turret.
Honestly what's more terrifying is spotter drones correcting fire, set up an automatic 40mm grenade launcher, fire a short burst, see where it goes, correct and repeat until the enemy is dead.
If your on the other side, Run, be evasive, find solid cover, pray it will protect you.
Sweden's arms industry is so cool, very glad they work so closely with the UK
Puzzles me why someone hasn't come up with the idea of using a large number of small autonomous drones to act as missile defence...
I see one drawback of such a system. These systems wont work if the IVF is hidden in the woods. This means the IFV needs to expose itself in the open field to use its sensors. In that case it can be targeted by artillery for example. Or maybe the optic can be destroyed by a laser in the future. But anyhow I would love to see such a system on our Pumas. ;)
Mate they showed some anti UAV thing for the Puma turret on an Boxer for the Schwerer Waffenträger but the australien CRV Boxer won
It would work thanks to the shared system between the ifvs. Each has a limited view sure but so would the drones from above
It is very likely that first generation staring systems will be limited when in concealment. IMO the slightest flicker of imagination leaps to one the oldest stealth systems which rely on concealment: submarines. Also: trench warfare. Both used extendable periscopes. At some point the weapons developers will realize that early warning sensors on an extendable mast will be a thing. They have been so in the movies for at least five decades. Even more exciting, the platform may have its own drones that rise up to provide threat detection and early warning ...
Why not let one CV90 stay far behind and provide overwatch for any drones ?
40mm have a good reach.
Also instead of a periscope saying "here I am" why not take the next step and have a drone of your own go up with sensors ?
@@matso3856 most modern periscopes employ various forms of low-observable tech. IMO it will be more of 360 sensors on a low-obs extendable mast rather than trad periscope. The EW drone should be primary, but there are scenarios where drones are not viable. Better to have some layers for EW including net-centric engagement. The folks that need these capabilities most are field artillery that has to stop briefly to engage. CV90s in overwatch role could address the need.
Well done. I’m another Ryan McBeth convert.✌️🇺🇦
I know from colleagues in Syria that mounted and dismounted non kinetic systems for jamming drones have been very successful. At least at squad and company level. Distributed aperture systems that can be networked like the one CV90 has are the way forward. Detecting amd tracking these drones individually is key. As for swarms of drones it will be essential to have several vehicles on guard for low horizon air threats. It now looks like air superiority has a new layer to deal with. With Taranis and Jakal BAE Sytems has some world class offensive systems in development to. As for the rest of NATO there are always nations that lag behind. Regardless of that these threats are here and here to stay. Ignoring them is no longer an option and lethally so.
The Russians can jam most drones , but in reality the equipment is just not on the front where it is needed . So Ukraine can win this war with drones, not anything else IF the world can get serious and help Ukraine win this war
@@buddyrojek9417 they can jam some drones and it depend upon the uplink being used and local ECM assets. And this war can certainly not be won with drones alone. I was an army troop medic for 16 years and nothing is won until soldiers stand on top of it.
@@markpengell23 I am telling you that any Russians that are in the front have very limited equipment and they rely on mass artillery barrages to pound anything alive in front of assault teams. So if Ukrainians can use drones they can knock out artillery and any tanks in the area . We need drones , more !!!
This is all very nice...but surely some sort of net to cover the top of the APC..much cheaper.
It’s pretty awesome that the target acquisition system is linked to our leopard main battle tanks as well as the JAS 39 Gripen and the Archer, to mention a few. 🙂 It can autonomously keep track of 200+ targets simultaneously. 😈
A rare development I agree is a game changer
4:00 Even when you can hear a drone it's still extremely difficult to locate and spot. And that's just when you're at the beach. Imagine if the drone pilot was actually trying to hide.
Give me a "oh yea, why not?" Moment
Years ago, I mused about what would be the smallest possible drone that could mission kill a tank. I came up with a back of the envelope sketch of a mini drone a few inches across that could literally fly into the barrel and carry a few grams of thermite to weld itself into place in the barrel of the tank.
I think we haven't even remotely seen what "small, low cost drones" is going to mean in another few years. The precision to fly directly into a 105mm barrel is barely a problem now, and it'll be fairly trivial to automate in the very very near future. Think size of a butterfly. One soldier can carry dozens in their backpack. Even a very fancy near future IFV squad with guns and lasers will have a hard time engaging that sort of swarm.
I use cheep $50 active hearing protection at the gun range and can hear quite conversations 50’ away between muzzle blasts.
Using radar gives emitter position away to enemy.
Either Optionally limit the RF search signals to VSRange(still risky but reduces risk) Or use IIR sensors, which have no signatures for enemy to track.
Ideally, marry both types on board IFV, allow for Vehicle Comander Discretion as the situation needs changes
Effector preferably should be munitions already on board : 7.62mm, 40mm & Maingun Ammo.
This reduces logistics needs, same caliber, more usefulness.
Lasers are coming, but not ready yet & remain weather dependent for effectiveness.
I have good news, lasers are ready, they have just not yet had the chance to prove themselves, or are being kept back as a wild card
Infact some people want tank killing lasers already
One thing that is not covered here is that you could introduce source of jamming as well which can disable cheaper off the shelf drones.
On the modern battle field even with an enemy as lame as putler, such emissions are suicidal
Hands down the best IFV I've heard of from various sources. You could load one with spare ammo instead of troops for escort duty.
One thing for sure. I was a strong supporter of the A-10 Thunderbolt for close-in support. Now I think it can be retired and drones and guided munitions can do that job better, cheaper, and more safely.
the A-10 could be retired before its introduction and it would have been a better aircraft
Didn’t the a10 have problems with friendly fire and targeting systems?
@@euanpc3322 yes. thats actually a design flaw,
The a-10 was originally designed for one possible event back then when the soviet union was a threat. To hold a strategic corridor in germany thats basically a big open field between more rivers where the soviets most likely would try to rush through with masses of tanks instead of trying to conquer bridges.
The A-10 was meant to shred these ... if it comes to it.
I'd say from now on, IFVs are gonna have to be able to fill in as short range air defense. I don't think sticking autocannons onto a tank like that prototype Abrams is a particularly good idea, but something to keep low altitude and kamikaze drones off of them, and everything else, is absolutely needed.
I've been wanting something built on an IFV chassis to accompany tanks and mechanized infantry.
Without the squad, there is space for a sensor station and more ammo. Ideally an EMP gun or jammer, Stinger, and a 35-40mm main gun. Some sort of TOW or other anti-tank missile would be good too.
That's 2 more weapons systems than a M-2 Bradley, though EMP guns are small.
Thats why geppard is so good went from obsolete in to a must have in few years lol
Lvkv90 ? .. it was one of the first cv90 variants back in the 90's , someone really earned their salary back then.
@@recoil53 How effective are EMP weapons though? They work against civilian stuff (as shown in Ukraine) but it is not that hard to harden a drone against the kind of EMP you can mount as an add-on on a vehicle. Likewise jamming / spoofing capability: worked well against most drones, so it seems only likely that future drones will be able to cope better. Inertial navigation and auto return home for recon drones, and autonomous target tracking for suicide drones.
@@kaasmeester5903 It has to be anticipated that dealing with insurgents or a non-western armies that civilian model drones would be a thing.
Also shielding costs weight.
The really scary thing is most of these drones were not even made for combat and they are still extremely effective. They've only had relatively cheap and easy modifications.
Think about what capabilities Lockheed Martin or a similar company could come up with when they have millions of dollars for research and development.
They could make one "mothership" drone with good optics that is able to control 100 kamikaze drones. With its thermal imagery it could easily pick out and pilot all the kamikazes to every person in a trench line at the same exact time. And they can write software that will do all of that with a simple command "destroy all targets in the selected area" from an operator. It can pick the targets and pilot them with no further human input.
I'd be surprised if the US doesnt already have something like this but I doubt they'd hand that over to another country.
Doesn't the use of an active sensor, like the radar also make the CV90 better detectable? Should this be of concern? I understand the benefits, and also some hardkill systems need to use a radar to detect the projectile/missile in time, and the energy and therefore range is nothing compared to a SAM site's radar to home in a HAARM, but could a anti drone radar make the presence of the CV90 visible through all the sophisticated conceilment, like the thermooptic camo or camo nets?
Also, what about those paper drones that have little if any radar returns
the hatch is open in case of missile attach cause it reduces the pressure inside the tank if hit by RPG-7 for example. but yes it makes it vulnerable to drones
I'm not that worried about drones dropping small grenades etc but as forward observation and intelligence. It gives so big advantage when you have top down situational awareness.
As manual loading of the main gun is rendered obsolete, there's a need for that crew position to be replaced with someone operating drones, managing defenses, vehicle radars and other detection equipment and keeping an eye out for airborne threats. Adding another set of duties along with the huge bump in information management that just came with the last technological change, I think advanced armor is going to need that. A $2000 drone can easily recon and spot for mortars, AT crews, or artillery these days. In five years time the drones will be highly integrated into electronic warfare systems.
That winter camouflage is beyond bitchin'.
as a last layer of defense against incoming objects , does CV-90 have decoys , chaff or some kinetic countermeasures at very close range ?
They are… but no one saw drones become this relevant this quickly. And counter systems takes time to develop and build.
The gun elevation of the CV90 is okay but not great with +45°. A real flakpanzer like the Gepard has +85°.
IFV anti air capability is nice but dedicated plattforms are needed.
"Oh cr*p that CV90 spotted my drone and shot it down."
"Call in air strike."
And its gone before the airstrike is even close to hitting it. While the AAA 2km behind the old position of the cv90 propably shoots down the plane.
unless you use dive bombs or cruise missiles, that might me even further away and take even longer.
so no.
airstrike denied.
@@ArgelTal_ "Call in artillery strike."
@@pj_ytmt-123 and Russia would win this war with artillery and hailstone warfare. But they just don’t have the manufacturing capability. They have run out of shells and rockets in Bakhmut. Russia is a few weeks away from total loss
The germans have started mantis, ground based and vehicle based (skyranger))short range/ medium range very effective.. some countries do more than others.
One of the main reasons this cheap/snall/not power, drones, have been effective is again because there has been a lack of focus on APS. These drones would be almost irrelevant of APS for all the vehicles would have been properly developed long ago. Another issue that Javelins and drones brought to the forefront is the glaring lack of topside protection on all the vehicles, including 70 ton MBTs. A vigorous and renewed focus needs to go into APS before developing or building more 5-10 million dollar tanks or APCs. Pretty sad that the collective West cannot provide Ukraine with tanks that have the latest APS, it would be a perfect testing ground for these systems, and would save lives and vehicles.
I dream of a world where a group of LAVs will be able to coordinate fire in the CIWS role, at the company or platoon level, and mitigate danger to their dismounts from things like rocket artillery, and drone swarms.
Tech for that, and using autocannons as an extended form of APS against missiles seem a natural evolution to follow, as we push for more anti-drone capabilities, and acquisition and targeting systems become gradually more ubiquitous and cost-effective.
CV90 can basically do that. There is quite a lot of system integration. There are some limitations to it.
The AA version have total integration and CV90 in AA version operate in a swarm, not only with other CV90 but also with stationary radar, flying radar, and sea based radar.
@@matsv201 Yeah, I figured it could.
Mostly I was thinking of other systems; LAV6s, Bradlys, Pumas, or the CROWS mounts on MBTs getting in on the work and talking to one another, as well as higher level systems the same way dedicated AA systems with a datalink do, or on individual levels when radio emissions aren't acceptable.
If we don't, the next few decades are gonna get a lot harder.
It's never going to happen. The economies of the collective 'West' are broke and soon to collapse. If it ever happens, it will be Russia pioneering.
This Top Attack from super cheap drones is why Russian forces are using special anti drone hoods that cover the turret entirely. Breaks up visual sillouette from a top down perspective and catches those small grenades.
It won't be long before there is advance's in combat drones. This is just the beginning before long the CV90 will be left standing, as it is far cheaper to modify a drone or commercial drone.
People are forgetting commercially available drones are susceptible to the same counter RCIED systems already deployed. While no country that’s hostile to NATO can currently field a credible drone swarm threat that uses encrypted communications. Of course countermeasures to those over the horizon threats is something you don’t really want to talk about publicly while you’re developing them.
Wasn't the Adaptiv IR concealment system dropped because it was too costly and largely replaceable by a cheaper IR concealment like Barracuda MCS?
Just not sure how effective it would be in a forest or city, but its something.
Is nice to have a radar that scans around for drones. Untill the enemy uses your radar to get your position and sends a greeting shell.