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Excellent advice! Unless space constraints are an issue, I can’t see any reason to choose the WiiM over the Onkyo or any other big brand AVR in a similar price range. Streaming isn’t a concern for me or anybody who has an Apple TV or Roku or smart TV (which is probably 90% of the audience here).
@@KristiWright Thanks! I always watch your guys videos. I appreciate your content a lot more than 1990’s industrial design lol. Hey there’s an idea for a video, ranking each decades most iconic good and bad designs. Don’t worry I won’t expect any royalties ☺️
I got sucked in by the mini-receiver hype and bought an Arylic B50. After suffering through HDMI problems and mediocre sound I ditched it and got a refurbished Denon AVR and couldn't be happier. If you HAVE to have all the fancy streaming services (which 99% of people DON'T), just get a Wiim Pro and plug it into a cheap AVR. You'll be happier.
Why even bother with the Wiim, I like my Wiim Mini a lot, but but many even budget Denon and Marantz models have Heos built right in. If one prefers, they can still add a Wiim or the streamer of their choice, but far from a need.
I can't stream, so I use a lot of physicals, use a regular stereo receiver that not too ancient & not very modern but does the job quite well, has a lot of features & power also
I used a Yamaha RX-V595 for 2 channel for close to 20 years and had zero complaints. In fact, since majorly upgrading my home set up, it has been relegated to my office with a topping D10 dac, and I stream to it directly from my computer, and frankly sounds amazing.
Since 2000, my main stereo listening has always been through an AVR, whether that be a low-end Sony, Yamaha, or now the Onkyo TX-RZ50. I think AVR are a great solution for any multi-use room such as a living room or family room. No regrets on taking this path.
Good to see Onkyo is still making great "entry level" recievers in 2024. I have a 2003 predecessor to this reciever, $399 at Circuit City, bought because it was the cheapest on the market that had all the features I wanted, 6-channel RCA, Dolby PL2, DTS and Dolby 6.1, and it's still chugging along today. This reciever playing well with the Focals shows that such budget-matching concerns are largely meaningless. One could decide to concentrate their budget on speakers and anchor the system with a cheapish-but-capable reciever. If your audio-nerd friends snicker at you for this, simply turn up the volume.
Thank you for this review. I have an old Onkyo TX SR608. Was using it for all HD inputs feeding into a plasma TV. The TV died and I replaced with a 4k LG. Now I feed the sound (with ARC) from the TV into the 608. I love this receiver.
I have an Onkyo that I bought back in 1999. Still working perfectly. I stupidly made it clip-enough (level up unplugging an rca line level ) but it wasn’t affected. I’d buy another in a heartbeat. I’m glad they resurrected.
I just got into AV receiver worked beginning of this year... i went with Yamaha V6A and its been a great choice. 7 channel... 100W/ch.... built in streaming and 2 zone setup is amazing.
My buddy wanted a cheap but good sounding stereo to get away from the Bluetooth speakers and soundbars. Hooked him up with an older onkyo tx receiver, 2 polk monitor 50's, an onkyo 10" subwoofer and an additional denon 8" subwoofer for about $175. He just went into shock after hearing it cuz he paid more for his bluetooth speaker than the stereo and the comparison obviously wasn't even close. That Onkyo that he got for $25 is still playing hard
I donated my Onkyo amplifier to a friend in need and it’s doing really well. He found a good phono amp for his fabulous micro Seiko turntable and a second hand pair of KEFs from the 90’s!
I have both. Denon AVR and the Wiim. The Wiim is in a small room where I didn't want an AVR to dominate the room. There is a place for both and if you live in a small apartment and are a streaming first person then the Wiim, to me, is the perfect way into hifi - or not
This is the first video of yours in a long time that features a product that is actually in my price range, I've watched countless regardless, but I'm pretty stoked about this 🎉 I have an OLD Onkyo stereo receiver, and have for the last 5 years, and this may just be the thing that brings my system into the twenty first century
I recently switched to the Denon S660H and use it for listening to vinyl (via a dedicated phono amp) as well as high resolution audio (FLAC and DSD) - quite satisfied. I had dabbled with separates - am taking a break from that quest for perfection to enjoy the music more and not regretting it at all 🙂
I have to say that this is refreshing to see. A review that is on something I can actually afford/allowed to spend. Hahaha Thank you for taking the time to review this and other more affordable options. Now I just need to justify to my wife that we need to get a new one!! 😂😂 God bless and keep up the good work. Thank you
I follow at least ten CZcams HiFi ‘specialist’s ‘ and applaud this solution too! I also started with a Yamaha AVR after a long break from my original system that was stolen after a burglary. Incredible value for money . These amplifiers were three times the price about 20 years ago!
FYI I own the Onkyo TX5100 I bought a couple of months ago at Best Buy & they updated the push pin binding posts to banana plugs : the newest revision , for the win !
We tried to get confirmation about this change from Onkyo before filming but couldn't. The fact that it is on sale (amzn.to/3rRWM4l) now makes it a an even better get.
Years ago when I was looking for speakers and amplification, I thought that I would have to buy atleast an integrated amp because all the hifi forum guys were saying that AVR's suck for music. I went to the Magnolia at one of the local Best Buys to demo speakers. They had the B&W 702's connected to a Pioneer VSX LX-504 AVR. They sounded wonderful together with my test tracks, and that was when I knew that audiophiles are full of sh*t. I've heard the high end rigs; I've gone to the audio shows; I know what good sound sounds like when I hear it. And my precious Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 (what I ended up buying) does a fine job paired with my JBL Studio 590s. You can totally get good sound from an AVR!
Thanks Andrew (and Kristi). In addition, there is huge value in used AVRs for music listening. A $2000 original MSRP 10-15 year old AVR can be had for peanuts ($100-200 often, in excellent condition with remote) and can sound awesome with most speakers for 2-channel or 2.1 listening since they have great bass management also. Used Anthems, which could have been $2000 new, are $300-400 on the used market and are excellent. Their value drops like a rock because they don’t have the latest gaming or home theater specs.
Love this review, receivers are a great solution. What are the benefits, if any, of using a dedicated streamer such as the Wiim, as opposed to a Roku 4K, with a receiver like this one? Is it really worth the extra $$?
Good day Andrew. I was so glad you compared the WIIM amp to this budget reciever. I always will choose a reciever over something like the WIIM amp. Flexibly and growth are the key factors. For two channel listening, my experience, AV receivers don’t sound as good as dedicated two channel setup. Those pure direct modes found on most AV receivers work to some extent but they tend leave you wanting more. Everyone has to start someplace and your budget example is a good one.
The click while increasing volume is caused by a relay. It's in most amps and receivers. It activates or deactivates electronic circuits. In AV receivers it prevents speaker pop at start-up, activates or deactivates amp channels, and maybe activates high power circuits as you increase the volume.
I couldn't agree more! I have been using various AVRs for music because they provide great functionality and - importantly - a nice margin in the power budget (if you only use 2 channels) - preventing power compression (contrary to most budget chi-fi amps). They virtually lie on the street, so it's very easy to try all major brands with their "home sound" signatures. They provide many options for experimenting - which will also accelerate younger audiophiles in their journey. I ended up using a higher-tier Yamaha AVR (RX-A) as a streamer and pre-amp with an older but beefy (20KG+) Marantz 5-ch. power stage driving a pair of Magnepans (with 2 subs) - and it gives me everything I ask of it. There's EQ for less-than-audiophile-quality recordings - and pure-direct analog mode to connect an external DAC of choice for critical listening. And you are not limited to the popular AVRs like Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo or Pioneer - how about Rotel, Arcam or Emotiva with even more power budget?
I took the time to consider how well an AVR would work for stereo before selecting my AVR. I can understand that some units without measuring up to the consumer's hearing or expectations, but I am certain that you will find what you seek, even if it means making a choice from another. Keep your options open and listen and buy what makes you happy and, as Andrew says, be satisfied with what you bought!
I haven't found any AV Receivers that satisfy my music passion needs, so l just add a Arcam Stereo Amp to Preouts of Marantz Cinema 70 AV Receiver and do AV Bypass for separate Music playback, works great get Best of both worlds then
I feel like this just makes the Onkyo TX-NR6050 an even better deal than it was before. It has all of the 4k 120Hz and 8k 60Hz support while providing the extra 2 channels (with real binding posts) and can be had for $399 just about anywhere these days. I love my NR6050 and feel like it is and was an absolute steal of a deal.
What an amazing deal! Awesome review, as usual!!!! I prefer the simple layout and to add my own source (streamer of choice) and love that they chose to spend the money on s decent amp section and going with binding posts rather than push in speaker wire terminals! Very nice Onkyo!!!!!
I am using the Denon AVR S750H for my music listening rooms and just love the experience. One room is a 4.1 setup and the other, larger room is a 7.1 setup. My home theater system is an older Onkyo AV Receiver TX-NR656 set up as a 7.1 system paired with a 92-inch Mitsubishi DLP. That system is still working great and I won't be upgrading until either the TV or the receiver quits working. The AVRs work well with the Klipsch RP8000Fs and the Magnat Transpuls 1500s as front speakers. I'm happy with my systems. They play cleanly and loud enough for me.
Hi Andrew, I am 71 years old and have been pursuing this hobby since I was 12 - built a few Heathkits (griefkits is what we used to call them ) an allied shortwave receiver, and a couple of Dynaco amps along the way, and a hafler dh-200 years ago. I dont build them any more but I do try to buy good value equipment that lets me enjoy music without the intrusion of noise and distortion from badly designed equipment. That said, I think a decent HT receiver is a perfectly acceptable way to enjoy music and I have for years enjoyed my HTR-5560 yamaha receiver, both as a stand alone unit using the internal amps and as just a preamp processor with some of Bob Carver's wonderful amplifiers as foundations for reproducing live levels in my home. Speakersd? VMPS Tower II special edition mains with their center and AR3a's as surround speakers and the wonderful VMPS larger subwoofer (2 0f them) rounding out the bottom end. Each channel was blessed with at least 600w/channel of power thru Bob's genius creations. Alas a home fire in late april of this year destroyed all of that equipment and now I am starting over. The VMPS speakers are no longer available...the Yamaha HTR-5560 is available only in unrestored used condition and Bob Carver's amps are a vanishing breed. That said, I am leaning towards the high powered Emotiva amps and the Yamaha A6A Receiver as a replacement for the old Yamaha, and considering a set of Legacy Audio Focus as the Front LR, a pair of Signatures as rear surrounds, a Legacy audio Marquis XD center speaker and a a pair of deep sea sound 18" powered subs as the foundation for the system. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on these choices - The room its going in is 15x18 with a sloped ceiling that goes from 10' to 20' along the long dimension of the room. Room will have carpeted floor and sheetrock walls and ceiling.
I have nothing against AVRs in general. My main problem with them is that some of them cheap out where I wish they didn’t, like the quality of the power unit itself. It’s far from everyone, it’s far from every brand as well. I personally keep going back from a fairly expensive soundbar setup, to a full surround setup for the bedroom and haven’t decided yet really, but I’m starting to lean more and more towards the old school AVR with a few smaller sized speakers. And although many soundbar can very much achieve a full sound, I’m very sensitive to having a very specific type of sound and quality to it, which pushes me more towards full on surround setup. That being said, I’ll never “cheap out” by going with a small china made amplifier like Wiim. It can be an incredible piece of tech, but I live by a simple rule: the stingy always pays twice. I also have horrible luck with tech, period. So this review is perfect for me as I’m now way closer to an actual choice. I like Onkyo and always have. This might be my choice, unless I go with that Sony you mentioned. Either way, great review and video! Thank you guys and hope everyone has an awesome weekend, and a Happy Easter for those who celebrate!
I always love your thoughts on whatever we're discussing because you consider all sides and arguments and do so in such a complete way. I really value you and your opinions, and I hope people in our community here on the channel do too! Have a great rest of your day, and best to you and the family!
@@Moonplant432 that’s exactly my point. There are tons of awesome products that could be considered cheap or are much cheaper than competition. But most of the time, there’s a reason for it, absolutely.
My old Technics amp just died and I was thinking about buying the WiiM amp. By chance I saw Yamaha AV on FB marketplace place and managed to get it for £140, total bargain! I’m currently using it in Stereo mode with a Kef sub, WiIM Pro and Topping Dac and I’m really happy with the sound.
The 805 was a fickle beast. Many literally went up in smoke. Mine lasted one week before it went pop and smoke came out. But what a glorious week it was. Replaced it with a Denon that lasted a lot longer, but it sounded so much worse in every way.
I just returned my Wiim after about 20 minutes of listening. My speakers have a sensitivity of 86 and these just had enough to get the sound to just 70 db. It got me thinking that I would have issues with classical music. I also tried a Yamaha avr but my wife just did not want something that big on the console since it would not fit in any of the cubbies. I bought the SVS SoundBase and wow what a difference. I didn't even bother to AB any of the other amps. Just packed them up and returned them. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the Wiim. If I had a smaller build and a more sensitive speaker setup it's possible the Wiim could have sufficed. I would definitely consider getting it for my daughter when she moves out and wants a nice small set up. Thanks for your videos, I've learned a lot.
THIS IS IT! I’m admittedly newer to the audiophile hobby but I couldn’t help but think why would you buy 3 cheap $89 devices with low end class D amps and exaggerated wattage when you could get a decent avr (good one if you wait for a sale)that’s loaded with features!!!
Keep up the good work, A&K. I appreciate the honesty. I have a full Emotiva set up (2 channel), and bought the Wiim to see if it could hold up. Emotiva T1+, Q5040, and Martin Logan 35's all sounded muddy on the WIIM. I used the bass management with an SVS SB 2000, still sucked. Save up, get good gear, ride out...
Thank you, thank you, Andrew! The great majority of online reviewers totally dismiss the value of an AV receiver for use in a hi-fi system. As an example, Darko, whose views I respect and whose channel I subscribe to and enjoy, would never entertain the idea of an AVR as "hi-fi" even though he actively endorses and promotes the ideals of minimalism and integration in stereo components, which he labels as "future-fi". The AVR is "future-fi"! And it has been so for a long number of years. What can be more minimal or integrated than a single box solution to handle all your av and stereo needs? Can you use an AVR for hi-fi playback? Hell yes! I have done it for more than 20 years. David
I agree 100%. Yes. Yes, you can use a receiver for any good to great stereo setup. A 20 year old Yamaha AVR with good speakers, even better separation 8'+, old Blu-ray as CD transport thru TOSLINK, using 25 year old Transparent speaker cables and interconnects. It sounds great for all types of music! Maybe it's time for an upgrade...Onkyo! (I know, I was sucker back then for overpriced wires!)
I’ve waited months for someone to review this. If you shop around you can easily find it for 349 down to 299. I really don’t think you can find a better value for a new 5.2 receiver right now
I would never buy an Onkyo receiver again. A few years ago they released the latest firmware update for my TX-NR616. I tried to install it as usual. It got stuck at 61%. Since then my receiver stopped working, I called them and told them about my experience. They just said, "We apologize, we know the firmware for your receiver was listed as the correct one, but it is not compatible with your receiver." So out of irresponsibility, I now have a ruined receiver because Onkyo didn't delete the firmware from their website. Never again Onkyo.
Inexcusable. I wonder if there is any consumer protection available to you. Much like “lemon laws” holding a manufacturer or seller responsible for a 100%, no questions asked refund. Different states have different laws in place.
The wiim amp sounds great. Paired with bookshelf speakers that are on the detailed side as the wiim is slightly on the warm side for somthing in the digital realm. Even paired with a rega turntable it sounds good to my ears. Its very compact and packs great features.
Onkyo gets the typical consumer. I fretted for years about what to do for watching movies and listening to my vintage audio components. I went with the Onkyo RZ-50 and I could not be happier. Contrary to some online comments from snobs, the sound is oustanding; clear and clean with great channel separation. And that thing absolutely cranks! This TX-SR3100 looks like a screaming deal and an excellent option for a very large segment of the home audio market. The competition had better step it up in the value department or they will be left in the dust of overpriced home audio.
I started over a year ago with a Marantz Cinema 50, and slowly integrated and phased it out to a McIntosh stereo system. There’s some functionality I definitely miss but much prefer the simpler layout, I have my TV connected to the preamp through earc, a turntable and a WiiM pro plus as a streamer. I loved the cinema 50 but the audiophile in me took over the setup.
With all the apples to oranges comparison comments, I just wanted to affirm the comparison you made to the wiim amp. Just a few weeks ago I was deciding between a wiim amp vs a traditional budget AVR. So it is a valid and useful comparison.
Great video as usual. I agree with you on the ‘value’ of the cheap DAC amps. Answer to your question? Heck ya! I grew up listening to my dad’s 2-channel HiFi systems (I still have his old Sansui G5700 with Technics turntable and other components, while he and mom are now running a Denon AVR and AppleTV). My first system getting into college was a Sony AVR that had Dolby Pro-Logic and no center channel. I used it for music and movies. I later upgraded that for a Harmon AVR55. I really enjoyed that system for movies and music. When I bought my Marantz SR5007 several years later (it was time to adopt HDMI, lol), the HK AVR was paired to an Emotiva 3-channel power amp running two channels, my Dad’s turntable, and som Axiom M60 towers. At the time I also had a desktop system running a pair of PSB speakers, and a vintage Sansui setup. The HK receiver sounded great. I have now replaced The HK (movers broke it) with my Marantz 5007 (which is great as a two-channel music system with the same power amp from Emotiva), and set up a Marantz Cinema 70 as my movie system (thanks to your great review - and others). While I have a nice Rotel/Monitor Audio system in my main floor listening environment, and a nice NAD/Q setup for my office, a vintage Marantz system in my gym area, and the vintage Sansui setup, I still love listening to the 2-channel coming out of that Marantz 5007 pre-amping the Emotiva XPR amp and Axiom M60 v4s. So, heck ya, use what you got, enjoy your music! Great video Andrew!
I like my Denon AVR. I would not limit the quality of speakers to use with it. I use it for a 2.1 system for video and music, and it is totally satisfying. The feature set and performance of AVRs is great for the money. Audyssey offers an EQ tool that let you pinpoint the frequencies who want to emphasize for best sound.
hear ya there my friend. I'm looking forward to the WiiM ultra. I'm going to make my speakers active and power them with the Fosi mono amps. Throw in some vinyl , tv and life will be good. Couldn't ask for anything more.
Great review! AVR can definitely be used for Hifi. Now waiting for the next backyard progress pick. Looked like the retaining wall was finished and backfilled . Looking good 👍🏻
My 17 year old Arcam AVR300 ($2,000 new in 2007) still rivals entry level separates in terms of sonic performance, with a huge toroidal transformer (a real 100w x 7) and capacitor bank, Stereo Direct option, and a bi-amp function for channels 6&7 to use on the main speakers, giving 200wpc on tap. More than enough for 90% of speakers on the market.
Appreciate your take here. Never heard the Wiim amp. Do have Wiim pro and a SMSL SU-1 Dac in my vintage systems. They play well together. Also have a Fosi BT20 blue tooth class d amp. Played so well on my vintage gear had to try it in my primary system. The Fosi pushed my $5000 Bryston A 1 very well. Rated 4 ohms and 88db efficient. Tbh was shocked how well. The Fosi will not replace my Hegel H190 but it was a fun experience. HiFi should be fun. All the best.
Nice job Andrew, and Happy Easter! I think the Wiim Amp's strong suit is exactly what you mentioned - to be tied into an existing amplifier for streaming use, or particularly as a source for lower volume listening, like my upcoming deck project, etc. The convenience of it is unparalleled, and the Wiim's do an _amazing_ job syncing throughout a home.
Love your reviews and agree with you here. I'm a retiree on a budget. Hence I have a Yamaha RX-V4A ($229/3yr warranty) for my main and a Fosi Audio ($50) for garage streaming. 😊
This is quite timely. I just purchased an older (2017, I think) Onkyo Tx-8270 on a whim. I tested it in place of my Audiolab 6000A Play with my Wharfedale Lintons, and much to my surprise, I love the sound even more than my Audiolab. I've A/B tested for about a week, and the Audiolab is getting sold. This was completely unexpected, but I'm more than happy with the older Onkyo.
I was into stereo music in the 70’s & 80’s. Got into AVR’s in the 90’s & 00’s and it sapped my love for music. Got back into 2 channel in the 10’s and my love for music has returned. Just saying AVRs are good for movies & TV but 2 or 2.1 channel for music is the way to go. Can’t beat it.
@@orangecat5036 Be honnest i had a harman kardon 161s avr (85w for stereo) for years and liked it very much 😊. But the problem is that the amps in avrs are weaker, than what you would have in a true stereo system (because of this it sounds much fuller and powerfull) Avrs are great is you use all it has, hdmi 5.1 etz) for stereo a stereo amp always wins 😊, and yes you will hear it.
Listening to music on a 5.1 system set to stereo sounds okay, but it doesn’t sound like a dedicated 2 channel system to me. But to be honest my 2 channel speakers and equipment make the comparison unfair. After getting back into stereo I’ve spent some money on my system. But that’s what I’m talking about. The AVRs didn’t motivate me to seek out better equipment. It was just music. But as soon as I went back to 2 channel I got bit by the audiophile bug all over again. Dang!
Awesome and fair review. Loved it. Looking to the future, affordable chip based amps are now being implemented with PFFB. Very soon, they will likely offer much better performance with varying load impedance. We all win from the competition as competing technologies continue to improve.
Very nice video. I just saw your other friends video on the Wiim. I feel more comfortable with a traditional amplifier. Thank you guys. Happy EASTER 🐰🐣
AVR's for 2CH HiFi are great I've had a Deon AVR-2809 for the last 15 years. It's been excellent as a HT receiver with a suite of Klipsch Reference towers and surrounds. It's now the centrepiece of a simple 2.0 Setup, plug in a Chromecast Audio and it's now a modern streaming receiver. with a very nice phono stage built in. Paired with the B&W 606 S2's (yes @andrew and half the internet hates these speakers) Running with Audyssey correction built in tames down the B&W's where needed and they sound excellent "In my room"
Older higher end AVRs can be a bargain for two channel listening. As AVRs they are considered obsolete because they do not have the latest audio codecs, so no one wants them. For stereo listening none of that matters and many have really good amplifiers, dacs and, often, a half decent phono stage as well. Lots of them also have bi-amp capability so you can repurpose un-used amplifiers to bi-amp speakers if you are into that sort of thing.
My stereo is in my living room. So is my TV, Blu Ray, and my kids’ Nintendo Switch. AVRs do a fine job with stereo. Something I wish you would do is something you touched on in the last unplugged: what is available today is an embarrassment of riches compared to twenty years ago. IDK if showing old components with prices adjusted for inflation and comparable performance with what you can get today, is feasible. It often seems that many in our little niche want the world for $99.99.
For many years I used a Denon AVR-988 for both stereo music & HT and I never had any complaints. Granted, that was a higher end receiver at the time. Before that I had been using an old Newcastle R-725 (a Pro Logic unit) that was an absolute monster for 2-channel listening (it still is actually - friends are using it for that purpose). These days I have dedicated HT and stereo setups in my listening space. I don't HAVE to, but more toys = more fun, right? :)
Andrew, many years ago (2003?) when I was an installer I had a customer that had a home theater in his finished basement and he used at least 2-3 of the flagship Denon AVR's for video and audio. I think he may have had a separate 2 channel Denon amp for the front speakers but even when listening to music such as a CD or Record all the speakers were on. I think he had a 9.2 system at the time, possibly more than that. It could have been an 11.2 or 13.2! All I know was it played loud and the room pressurized very easily despite its large size.
Great video. I do still miss the immediacy of K’s responses and questions within the same video. I thought this part of your format was what really made a big difference. Also love your more general unplugged newsy chats. I also realise you can’t do everything as you put a lot of planning into everything you do.
This! So much this! Receivers are so criminally underrated. In just about every other walk of life, as the list of things something can do competently to even great grows, it becomes more and more in demand. Some audiophiles use this list as a checklist in reverse. Oh, you say it can do B, what a joke of a product then, no way am ai buying something that can do B, I just need A, don't want antlything else "distracting" it. It can't possibly be any good at A if it can also do B. It is like someone who only speaks English who is buying interpreting service as he has a meeting with a German and French executive. They proudly tell him they have a great deal for him as he can get the services of one person that is a great interpreter for both languages for the session for only $1k. He then asks what do you have as far as separate interpreters that can't crossover between German and French? They say well we do have that available, but it will be $1,700 each, and you will lose a lot of abilities....... while she is still talking, the customer says I will take them!!!
I didn't want this getting too long, so I decided to break it up. I keep seeing videos about these new hyped up 2 channel amps that are finally adding HDMI ARC. However, other than compact size, it is pretty hard to get excited when there are thousands of recent receivers with HDMI ARC that can be had used, shipped to my door for under $100 that will thoroughly destroy the Wiim Amp in stereo, and while the Wiim is still licking it's wounds the receiver will be kicking it on Avengers in 5.1.2! Further upmarket, I haven't checked in the last couple of years, but literally no dedicated pre-amp could match, let alone beat the Denon x3600h on most measurements at Audio Science Review. I am not going to say that all of these huge gains from integrated receivers or separates over receivers are placebo effect, but I will say that based on my personal testing, I don't see how it can be anything else in a lot of cases. Me personally, I have plenty of dedicated amps, processors, and integrated amps around. However, nothing beats my Arcam AVR30 to my ears. I also find that I use receivers in most of my systems as I hear no penalty in quality and they just do everything I need, in a single box. What more can you ask for?
I dumped my Denon 5.1 AVR three years ago for the Cambridge CXA-81. Yes, I lost 5.1 for movies but for hi-fi playback, the sound from the CXA-81 smashes my old AVR to pieces. Not even close, night and day difference. However, if I were to purchase a new AVR, and maybe I will one day, the Onkyo here would be on the shortlist. I just listen to music more now at my old age of 50+.
You're AVR must have been crap then because my Denon x3800h has been a god send.. With my Wharfedale Standing speakers. And speakers on Stands and my SVS Subwoofer. Is absolutely stunning sound. Mind you i did get it professionally fitted for my room by a BANG & OLUFSEN.
@@ENGBriseB In fairness, it was an opening price point Denon with 5.1 so it is quite a mismatch versus the CXA-81. I've never heard the x3800h but it also would be on my shortlist. Big fan of Denon and Marantz. I'd also consider Onkyo (obviously) and Pioneer.
That's awesome! I prefer them with the grilles on myself, but they're not as interesting to film all covered up. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
The form factor is due to the functionality. The Wiim has one hdmi and two speaker connections. For the same price or so you get more channels and more inputs. As well as this being able to handle multiple rooms
@@user-jm8ky1kn2t Yup , I get that. But form factor is a big deal to me. I'm not interested in all the extra. I need one digital, one analog and possibly one HDMI . Nothing more and not interested in multiroom. The new WiiM ultra will be more than enough.
I think you said it in the first 10 seconds. For those who are always chasing dac/amps there should be a DAC of the month club like Trunk Club or Watch of the month club. 😅
@robinsonbrand excellent review. For my main listening area I have an Onkyo tx-nr6050 for both movies and music. Budget and space are factors. Loved the balance of this review.
They balance each other out really well. I'm moving toward watching the Friday video and only going back to the solo video if I want the full sales pitch.
I had the Onkyo TX-RZ50 at one point and found if you set the speakers to 6 ohm or 4 ohm (I think you can only set to 6 ohm) that made that audible click never happen even if you were using 8 ohm speakers.
Great video Andrew! Someone had to say it, electronically there is nothing that makes an AVR be worse then a 2 chan amplifier, it just depends on how each one of them is build. For years I’ve been powering my Klipsch RF7-II’s with an old Onkyo TX-SR608 from 2010 and although the HDMIs are old versions the sound continues to be accurate, very strong and dynamic 👌
Happy Sunday Andrew and Kristi. Onkyo has been a brand that always seems to offer very competitive products in the entry level price point. Their entry level 2-channel integrated amp (I believe currently the $350 A-9110) has always been highly regarded at its price point but seems to fly under the radar.
Great product, great review! What's not to like? More than enough power, can be used for 2 channels listening and home theater as well, plenty of connections, analogue, digital and HDMI, the quality coming from a brand like Onkyo, the price, now on sale at the big box store for $339.00 and even has tone controls! The Wiim counterpart? Not even close!
An AVR for movies and music is gets you further up the quality ladder of both for the same money compared to separate systems for movies and music. I have a NAD AVR and Hsu Research speakers and sub and I challenge anyone to pick apart its stereo performance. Subs are also hugely underrated as additions to stereo systems.
I have a wiim amp and love it . have two Kef bookshelf speakers . The wiim amp is much smaller allowing me to place it on my office desk . Overall I would still pick wiim.
In a desktop situation where you don't need to turn things up since you're listening in the near field, I'm not surprised that you are happy with your purchase.
I bought one of those little amps for my garage. It is, absolutely, in every way, inferior to even a basic mainstream amp. The ONLY nice things about it: 1. it’s small and fits anywhere. 2. it has no vents so it will likely last longer in my sometimes less than super clean garage.
I would love if you could assign the channels as 4.2.1, meaning re-assigning the center channel as a mono height. Sure it won't give you much in the way of stereo height movement, but if you're a single listener? I can see it being a great budget option for "Atmos". Sadly that's not something Atmos supports
Yes, you can use AVRs for 2-channel hi-fi listening. I use a Pioneer Elite SC-LX501 for both home theater and stereo music, both with great results. I also use and old Sony DA4ES as a stereo amp to power my desktop system, running HDMI from the computer into the TV that I use as a monitor and then optical from the TV to the receiver. This also sounds great.
Thank you for the avr truth! My 20yo pioneer elite vsx-94txh is so versatile with multiple inputs including hdmi and phono. Paired with a wiim mini streamer and with plenty of power to drive my polk es20 speakers, I couldn’t be happier.
I bought the RXV6A a couple years ago and really like it, especially MusicCast to my surprise. Still I sometimes think about looking for a used Denon like the one this Yamaha replaced when it died. I find I miss the preamp outs and 7 channel input more than I like atmos and HDMI. I realize this makes me sort of a dinosaur.
I agree with you about pre-outs. Pre-outs are still a prerequisite on a receiver for me. It's just ridiculous how much they expect you to pay to get them on new AVRs these days, which is one reason why I stick with used, and I don't use my receivers for video so I don't care about HDMI inputs.
I agree with the comment on using an AVR in stereo mode for music listening. Many people automatically assume that an AVR cannot sound good or cannot compete with an integrated amp in the same price range. I believe that most of those people have never really listened to music through an AVR before. I have a Sony mid-price AVR (from 5-6 years ago) that, to me, sounds much better than an NAD integrated amp at the same price - clearer, cleaner and more even across the frequency range.
What a weird comparison of product with the wiim amp. Fine review of the onkyo but completely different use cases. You buy the wiim amp because of the streamer that also has an amp/dac built inside. The fact that you don't have built in streaming plus already making it slightly more expensive you're nearly double the price already. Yes the wiim amp doesn't have hdmi 2.2, fine. Its not really made for home theater. the better comparison would be a used receiver that also doesn't have 2.2 at a fraction of the price. Still, that wouldn't even talk about aesthetics which typically are big on your channel. I bought a wiim amp because its small, aesthetically pleasing and easily places 2.0/2.1 with minimal effort and minimalist look. You don't have to plug anything else into it and it looks great on table top. If i want i can add a record player. Eventually, i might add a frame tv to my common/living room mounted on my wall above my sound system with hidden wires. Now picture that set up with a big black box onkyo avr. Id have to buy a specific piece of furniture to hide the thing that wont overheat or have it sitting out. Night and day different product.
I'm glad you're enjoying your WiiM, that's all I want for anyone. I just find the WiiM to be overhyped (not to mention misleading with respect to its specs). In this case, a lot of would be WiiM customers, specifically those looking for a solution for their living rooms etc., would be doing themselves a disservice by ignoring AVRs like the Onkyo. That's all. I will concur that the WiiM is the "sexier" looking package, but it doesn't deliver on all that it promises as it relates to power and sound quality, which we (and others) have demonstrated. To me that's reason enough NOT to give a company my business, for if they're okay with lying to customers, that's not a business I want to reward with my money.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews thanks for the reply. I think some of what you're saying is valid about performance and the wiim amp is not an end all be all product. I am saying it seems like 2 or 3 separate conversations. 1) this Onkyo is a good product, here's why, heres a review. Consider buying it over a class d chifi amp 2) this streamer amp combo is overrated and over hyped. Its specs dont deliver. Still, its a streamer first so recommending a non streamer doesn't make sense 3) don't want to give recommendations on products/companies that aren't honest on specs/delivery. Then you recommended wiim product as a pairing is pretty counter to your argument. I understand the wiim pro/plus/ standard is a different product but stll same org. Also, plenty of avr companies seem to lie about watts/specs. With all of that said, i do enjoy your content and thank you for putting it out there. This just seems like a pretty odd head to head and to me. it seems like a shoehorned gripe with the wiim amp pushed into this Onkyo review
WiiM Amp is not a Hi-Fi product. But a WiiM streamer with a budget friendly AV receiver like the mentioned Onkyo is the way to go. I like more aesthetics of the WiiM Amp, and its dimensions too, but do we want to live in the future with audio products who almost destroying Hi-Fi values? WiiM must be accepted as a borderline supplement to the Hi-Fi world and not like one of the leading forces for future innovations for good sound. On the positive side WiiM and SONOS are the fancy way to better sound with those, shall we say, lifestyle products. I personally could buy a WiiM amp and after two years of decision making I am coming to purchase Onkyo for sure. Those are not needed steps for audiophile hobby.
@@MotoMatini Is streaming not hi-fi because it's not analog? Seems like think so when you use the words borderline supplement. Perhaps a wiim amp isnt "hifi." So what? Its a cheap, minimalist product as outlined above that can play pretty decent quality sound for a variety of speakers with strong spousal approval factor. Not every rig in your house needs to be your definition of "hi-fi." It'll still sounds better than most common peoples' set-ups. you could also do just that (2 years and upgrade the amp/dac) and use the wiim amp simply just as streamer like the wiim pro plus and wouldn't have spent much more. Again, my point is that these are 2 very different products for very different use cases. IDGAF about 5 channels or dolby services that the onkyo provides for my use case, i do want streaming though which it doesn't. Its like arguing my truck doesn't hold as many people as your mini-van. Sure, but it hauls things, thats why i got it. Yeah, i guess you can attach a trailer to your minivan but they're very still different and for different uses. Lastly, this "it isn't hifi" thing seems very gatekeepy.
OK, here in Norway is 02:39 on my clock, but I shall respond. Yes, one product is a truck and another is a minivan in the car world. Many people buy what they want to have and not necessarily what they really need. But regardless of the product, if the producent of a truck or minivan shows 200 HP strong engines, then I want to pay for 200 HP. But if I find that truck essentially has 180 HP I buy a minivan. Hi-Fi world is even more rigid on produsent data and there laying my borderline mark. You are right, the WiiM Amp is OK and people want simplicity and style. Like every other new product, WiiM and SONOS need time to implement refinement in solutions and sound stages. I am more for traditional Hi-Fi and the lack of better designs among "ordinary" AV receivers is not good for the Hi-Fi world. But many new products are very good and consumers have a variety of choices like never before. Nice!
I on a Onkyo A-9010 and it destroys amps up to 700$, even the Rotel A11 Tribute, was cleaner sounding but not as exiting as the onkyo. Onkyo is deeply undervalued and a hidden gem!
I started with stereo speakers connected to a NAD D3020. Then I replaced the NAD with a Marantz Receiver (slim line - nothing fancy). I believe the DSP alone was sufficient to enhance the sound of the same speakers on the Marantz. Considering all the functionality, I have no doubt that a receiver can outperform an integrated amp, at least at the entry level.
I have a NAD D3020, compared to your new amp without the DSP (if you tested it), did you find any significant difference? I compared it to my other amp (a Denon) and found it really hard to perceive any difference. I also compared it to one of those cheap class D Chinese amps and there was some difference, but a very small one, certainly not 10x difference (as the price). I'm starting to think that amps are quite easy to build nowadays, after all an amp just has to amplify the sound with the minimum coloration possible, and this does not require super expensive equipment (while speakers are another story).
@@TommasoPaba As far as I can remember, I think the Marantz without DSP was worse than the NAD. Nothing crazy, but the treble was harsh on the Marantz. I also compared the NAD with some cheap Topping and there was almost no difference. Lastly, I also tried the same speakers with an entry-level Cambridge Audio, and it was the worst of all - the sound was muddy. So, I think the amp can make a difference, but not always
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Yamaha RX-V4A is on sale for the same $$ @ Crutchfield. You get wifi, LAN and everything the Onkyo has. Thanks for the review.
@@-loki-7727 Nice catch! The Yamaha would be another good value. On sale here - bit.ly/3VtMJzB
Excellent advice! Unless space constraints are an issue, I can’t see any reason to choose the WiiM over the Onkyo or any other big brand AVR in a similar price range. Streaming isn’t a concern for me or anybody who has an Apple TV or Roku or smart TV (which is probably 90% of the audience here).
@@richardbixler good to see you back!
@@KristiWright Thanks! I always watch your guys videos. I appreciate your content a lot more than 1990’s industrial design lol. Hey there’s an idea for a video, ranking each decades most iconic good and bad designs. Don’t worry I won’t expect any royalties ☺️
I got sucked in by the mini-receiver hype and bought an Arylic B50. After suffering through HDMI problems and mediocre sound I ditched it and got a refurbished Denon AVR and couldn't be happier. If you HAVE to have all the fancy streaming services (which 99% of people DON'T), just get a Wiim Pro and plug it into a cheap AVR. You'll be happier.
Why even bother with the Wiim, I like my Wiim Mini a lot, but but many even budget Denon and Marantz models have Heos built right in. If one prefers, they can still add a Wiim or the streamer of their choice, but far from a need.
I can't stream, so I use a lot of physicals, use a regular stereo receiver that not too ancient & not very modern but does the job quite well, has a lot of features & power also
Got a Yamaha AVR and just love it for 2 channel stereo. Thank you for reviewing reasonably priced products.
I used a Yamaha RX-V595 for 2 channel for close to 20 years and had zero complaints. In fact, since majorly upgrading my home set up, it has been relegated to my office with a topping D10 dac, and I stream to it directly from my computer, and frankly sounds amazing.
Since 2000, my main stereo listening has always been through an AVR, whether that be a low-end Sony, Yamaha, or now the Onkyo TX-RZ50. I think AVR are a great solution for any multi-use room such as a living room or family room. No regrets on taking this path.
you may have some really nice ones. For stereo listening, you will get much more of a 3D sound when using a stereo amplifier of $300 or more.
Good to see Onkyo is still making great "entry level" recievers in 2024. I have a 2003 predecessor to this reciever, $399 at Circuit City, bought because it was the cheapest on the market that had all the features I wanted, 6-channel RCA, Dolby PL2, DTS and Dolby 6.1, and it's still chugging along today.
This reciever playing well with the Focals shows that such budget-matching concerns are largely meaningless. One could decide to concentrate their budget on speakers and anchor the system with a cheapish-but-capable reciever. If your audio-nerd friends snicker at you for this, simply turn up the volume.
Thank you for this review. I have an old Onkyo TX SR608. Was using it for all HD inputs feeding into a plasma TV. The TV died and I replaced with a 4k LG. Now I feed the sound (with ARC) from the TV into the 608. I love this receiver.
I have an Onkyo that I bought back in 1999. Still working perfectly. I stupidly made it clip-enough (level up unplugging an rca line level ) but it wasn’t affected.
I’d buy another in a heartbeat.
I’m glad they resurrected.
I just got into AV receiver worked beginning of this year... i went with Yamaha V6A and its been a great choice. 7 channel... 100W/ch.... built in streaming and 2 zone setup is amazing.
FINALLY!!!! A review that actually people want and obtainable 😂 please continue reviewing
Please allow me to point you to this playlist bit.ly/2MhHm93.
My buddy wanted a cheap but good sounding stereo to get away from the Bluetooth speakers and soundbars. Hooked him up with an older onkyo tx receiver, 2 polk monitor 50's, an onkyo 10" subwoofer and an additional denon 8" subwoofer for about $175. He just went into shock after hearing it cuz he paid more for his bluetooth speaker than the stereo and the comparison obviously wasn't even close. That Onkyo that he got for $25 is still playing hard
I donated my Onkyo amplifier to a friend in need and it’s doing really well. He found a good phono amp for his fabulous micro Seiko turntable and a second hand pair of KEFs from the 90’s!
I have both. Denon AVR and the Wiim. The Wiim is in a small room where I didn't want an AVR to dominate the room. There is a place for both and if you live in a small apartment and are a streaming first person then the Wiim, to me, is the perfect way into hifi - or not
My trusty old Onkyo TX-NR 809 AVR that refuses to die is a beast of an AVR. It just has gobs of power.
HELL YEAH !!!!! I HAVE TWO of them..STILL WORK GREAT... .. I Also have a DENON 4311 CI which is also AWESOME...
I have the Integra 50.3 which is the same amp I believe. I’m finding it hard to fault or justify upgrading to a dedicated 2 channel amp
This is the first video of yours in a long time that features a product that is actually in my price range, I've watched countless regardless, but I'm pretty stoked about this 🎉 I have an OLD Onkyo stereo receiver, and have for the last 5 years, and this may just be the thing that brings my system into the twenty first century
Thank you so much for watching! We have a binge-worthy budget-friendly playlist on the main channel page that you may want to explore.
I recently switched to the Denon S660H and use it for listening to vinyl (via a dedicated phono amp) as well as high resolution audio (FLAC and DSD) - quite satisfied. I had dabbled with separates - am taking a break from that quest for perfection to enjoy the music more and not regretting it at all 🙂
I have to say that this is refreshing to see. A review that is on something I can actually afford/allowed to spend. Hahaha Thank you for taking the time to review this and other more affordable options. Now I just need to justify to my wife that we need to get a new one!! 😂😂 God bless and keep up the good work. Thank you
I follow at least ten CZcams HiFi ‘specialist’s ‘ and applaud this solution too! I also started with a Yamaha AVR after a long break from my original system that was stolen after a burglary. Incredible value for money . These amplifiers were three times the price about 20 years ago!
FYI I own the Onkyo TX5100 I bought a couple of months ago at Best Buy & they updated the push pin binding posts to banana plugs : the newest revision
, for the win !
We tried to get confirmation about this change from Onkyo before filming but couldn't. The fact that it is on sale (amzn.to/3rRWM4l) now makes it a an even better get.
Years ago when I was looking for speakers and amplification, I thought that I would have to buy atleast an integrated amp because all the hifi forum guys were saying that AVR's suck for music. I went to the Magnolia at one of the local Best Buys to demo speakers. They had the B&W 702's connected to a Pioneer VSX LX-504 AVR. They sounded wonderful together with my test tracks, and that was when I knew that audiophiles are full of sh*t. I've heard the high end rigs; I've gone to the audio shows; I know what good sound sounds like when I hear it. And my precious Yamaha Aventage rx-a780 (what I ended up buying) does a fine job paired with my JBL Studio 590s. You can totally get good sound from an AVR!
I love this comment, @Larwiz! Thank you for sharing!
Fantastic story...😍
Thanks Andrew (and Kristi). In addition, there is huge value in used AVRs for music listening. A $2000 original MSRP 10-15 year old AVR can be had for peanuts ($100-200 often, in excellent condition with remote) and can sound awesome with most speakers for 2-channel or 2.1 listening since they have great bass management also. Used Anthems, which could have been $2000 new, are $300-400 on the used market and are excellent. Their value drops like a rock because they don’t have the latest gaming or home theater specs.
Sorry but my Marantz surround processor pales in comparison to my Schiit freya+ plus 20 year old Herron Audio M150's.
Love this review, receivers are a great solution. What are the benefits, if any, of using a dedicated streamer such as the Wiim, as opposed to a Roku 4K, with a receiver like this one? Is it really worth the extra $$?
Good day Andrew. I was so glad you compared the WIIM amp to this budget reciever. I always will choose a reciever over something like the WIIM amp. Flexibly and growth are the key factors. For two channel listening, my experience, AV receivers don’t sound as good as dedicated two channel setup. Those pure direct modes found on most AV receivers work to some extent but they tend leave you wanting more. Everyone has to start someplace and your budget example is a good one.
I don't listen a lot but you are just smooth as silk! If you're not a professional speaker...you should be. 👏
The click while increasing volume is caused by a relay. It's in most amps and receivers. It activates or deactivates electronic circuits. In AV receivers it prevents speaker pop at start-up, activates or deactivates amp channels, and maybe activates high power circuits as you increase the volume.
I couldn't agree more!
I have been using various AVRs for music because they provide great functionality and - importantly - a nice margin in the power budget (if you only use 2 channels) - preventing power compression (contrary to most budget chi-fi amps).
They virtually lie on the street, so it's very easy to try all major brands with their "home sound" signatures. They provide many options for experimenting - which will also accelerate younger audiophiles in their journey.
I ended up using a higher-tier Yamaha AVR (RX-A) as a streamer and pre-amp with an older but beefy (20KG+) Marantz 5-ch. power stage driving a pair of Magnepans (with 2 subs) - and it gives me everything I ask of it. There's EQ for less-than-audiophile-quality recordings - and pure-direct analog mode to connect an external DAC of choice for critical listening.
And you are not limited to the popular AVRs like Yamaha, Marantz, Onkyo or Pioneer - how about Rotel, Arcam or Emotiva with even more power budget?
I took the time to consider how well an AVR would work for stereo before selecting my AVR. I can understand that some units without measuring up to the consumer's hearing or expectations, but I am certain that you will find what you seek, even if it means making a choice from another. Keep your options open and listen and buy what makes you happy and, as Andrew says, be satisfied with what you bought!
I haven't found any AV Receivers that satisfy my music passion needs, so l just add a Arcam Stereo Amp to Preouts of Marantz Cinema 70 AV Receiver and do AV Bypass for separate Music playback, works great get Best of both worlds then
Personally I would advise a newbie to go with an AV receiver over a small amp for one simple reason, the power supply. Love the channel. Cheers 😊
I feel like this just makes the Onkyo TX-NR6050 an even better deal than it was before. It has all of the 4k 120Hz and 8k 60Hz support while providing the extra 2 channels (with real binding posts) and can be had for $399 just about anywhere these days. I love my NR6050 and feel like it is and was an absolute steal of a deal.
What an amazing deal! Awesome review, as usual!!!! I prefer the simple layout and to add my own source (streamer of choice) and love that they chose to spend the money on s decent amp section and going with binding posts rather than push in speaker wire terminals! Very nice Onkyo!!!!!
I am using the Denon AVR S750H for my music listening rooms and just love the experience. One room is a 4.1 setup and the other, larger room is a 7.1 setup. My home theater system is an older Onkyo AV Receiver TX-NR656 set up as a 7.1 system paired with a 92-inch Mitsubishi DLP. That system is still working great and I won't be upgrading until either the TV or the receiver quits working. The AVRs work well with the Klipsch RP8000Fs and the Magnat Transpuls 1500s as front speakers. I'm happy with my systems. They play cleanly and loud enough for me.
Me, sitting here with focal aria 948s and a budget AVR 👀
Hi Andrew, I am 71 years old and have been pursuing this hobby since I was 12 - built a few Heathkits (griefkits is what we used to call them ) an allied shortwave receiver, and a couple of Dynaco amps along the way, and a hafler dh-200 years ago. I dont build them any more but I do try to buy good value equipment that lets me enjoy music without the intrusion of noise and distortion from badly designed equipment. That said, I think a decent HT receiver is a perfectly acceptable way to enjoy music and I have for years enjoyed my HTR-5560 yamaha receiver, both as a stand alone unit using the internal amps and as just a preamp processor with some of Bob Carver's wonderful amplifiers as foundations for reproducing live levels in my home. Speakersd? VMPS Tower II special edition mains with their center and AR3a's as surround speakers and the wonderful VMPS larger subwoofer (2 0f them) rounding out the bottom end. Each channel was blessed with at least 600w/channel of power thru Bob's genius creations. Alas a home fire in late april of this year destroyed all of that equipment and now I am starting over. The VMPS speakers are no longer available...the Yamaha HTR-5560 is available only in unrestored used condition and Bob Carver's amps are a vanishing breed. That said, I am leaning towards the high powered Emotiva amps and the Yamaha A6A Receiver as a replacement for the old Yamaha, and considering a set of Legacy Audio Focus as the Front LR, a pair of Signatures as rear surrounds, a Legacy audio Marquis XD center speaker and a a pair of deep sea sound 18" powered subs as the foundation for the system. I would be very interested to hear your thoughts on these choices - The room its going in is 15x18 with a sloped ceiling that goes from 10' to 20' along the long dimension of the room. Room will have carpeted floor and sheetrock walls and ceiling.
I have nothing against AVRs in general. My main problem with them is that some of them cheap out where I wish they didn’t, like the quality of the power unit itself. It’s far from everyone, it’s far from every brand as well. I personally keep going back from a fairly expensive soundbar setup, to a full surround setup for the bedroom and haven’t decided yet really, but I’m starting to lean more and more towards the old school AVR with a few smaller sized speakers. And although many soundbar can very much achieve a full sound, I’m very sensitive to having a very specific type of sound and quality to it, which pushes me more towards full on surround setup. That being said, I’ll never “cheap out” by going with a small china made amplifier like Wiim. It can be an incredible piece of tech, but I live by a simple rule: the stingy always pays twice. I also have horrible luck with tech, period. So this review is perfect for me as I’m now way closer to an actual choice. I like Onkyo and always have. This might be my choice, unless I go with that Sony you mentioned. Either way, great review and video! Thank you guys and hope everyone has an awesome weekend, and a Happy Easter for those who celebrate!
I always love your thoughts on whatever we're discussing because you consider all sides and arguments and do so in such a complete way. I really value you and your opinions, and I hope people in our community here on the channel do too! Have a great rest of your day, and best to you and the family!
@@andrewrobinsonreviewsthank you for your kind words! 😇☺️
And same to you guys!
@@Moonplant432 that’s exactly my point. There are tons of awesome products that could be considered cheap or are much cheaper than competition. But most of the time, there’s a reason for it, absolutely.
My old Technics amp just died and I was thinking about buying the WiiM amp. By chance I saw Yamaha AV on FB marketplace place and managed to get it for £140, total bargain! I’m currently using it in Stereo mode with a Kef sub, WiIM Pro and Topping Dac and I’m really happy with the sound.
That's awesome!
This would be a great starter AVR that can easily serve the majority of folks.
My old onkyo tx sr 805 is still proudly serving in my buddy’s stereo. 2 channel, records only. No slouch in stereo. Hes happy
AVRs continue to be the unsung heroes of hifi and for 90% of consumers, they're likely the better choice over a lot of dedicated hifi gear.
Txsr 600 here. No hdmi chip to crap out
The 805 was a fickle beast. Many literally went up in smoke. Mine lasted one week before it went pop and smoke came out. But what a glorious week it was. Replaced it with a Denon that lasted a lot longer, but it sounded so much worse in every way.
I just returned my Wiim after about 20 minutes of listening. My speakers have a sensitivity of 86 and these just had enough to get the sound to just 70 db. It got me thinking that I would have issues with classical music. I also tried a Yamaha avr but my wife just did not want something that big on the console since it would not fit in any of the cubbies. I bought the SVS SoundBase and wow what a difference. I didn't even bother to AB any of the other amps. Just packed them up and returned them. I knew it was a bit of a gamble with the Wiim. If I had a smaller build and a more sensitive speaker setup it's possible the Wiim could have sufficed. I would definitely consider getting it for my daughter when she moves out and wants a nice small set up. Thanks for your videos, I've learned a lot.
THIS IS IT! I’m admittedly newer to the audiophile hobby but I couldn’t help but think why would you buy 3 cheap $89 devices with low end class D amps and exaggerated wattage when you could get a decent avr (good one if you wait for a sale)that’s loaded with features!!!
DING! DING! DING! For someone new to the hobby you're further along than a lot of folks. Appreciate you watching Roberto.
Keep up the good work, A&K. I appreciate the honesty. I have a full Emotiva set up (2 channel), and bought the Wiim to see if it could hold up. Emotiva T1+, Q5040, and Martin Logan 35's all sounded muddy on the WIIM. I used the bass management with an SVS SB 2000, still sucked. Save up, get good gear, ride out...
Appreciate you sharing your personal experience(s). I think it helps others get an even better understanding.
Thank you, thank you, Andrew!
The great majority of online reviewers totally dismiss the value of an AV receiver for use in a hi-fi system. As an example, Darko, whose views I respect and whose channel I subscribe to and enjoy, would never entertain the idea of an AVR as "hi-fi" even though he actively endorses and promotes the ideals of minimalism and integration in stereo components, which he labels as "future-fi".
The AVR is "future-fi"! And it has been so for a long number of years. What can be more minimal or integrated than a single box solution to handle all your av and stereo needs?
Can you use an AVR for hi-fi playback? Hell yes! I have done it for more than 20 years.
David
Think, look and listen content, which takes you outside of the box. Good lord!! Thank you!
Two channels done right…still the gold standard in playback.
That's what I'm saying too
I fully agree.
Define "done right". 🙄
I agree 100%. Yes. Yes, you can use a receiver for any good to great stereo setup. A 20 year old Yamaha AVR with good speakers, even better separation 8'+, old Blu-ray as CD transport thru TOSLINK, using 25 year old Transparent speaker cables and interconnects. It sounds great for all types of music! Maybe it's time for an upgrade...Onkyo! (I know, I was sucker back then for overpriced wires!)
Now imagine that Onkyo in a well-done retro styled case. They could sell these for a $799 all day long. And kickstart a whole new segment.
TOTALLY AGREE!
Sounds like an excellent opportunity for Leak Audio to bring an AVR like that to market.
@@KristiWright bingo! Love your role in these vids, BTW.
Great Sunday everyone.
Morning!
Thanks for tuning in and I hope you enjoy the show!
I’ve waited months for someone to review this. If you shop around you can easily find it for 349 down to 299.
I really don’t think you can find a better value for a new 5.2 receiver right now
I would never buy an Onkyo receiver again. A few years ago they released the latest firmware update for my TX-NR616. I tried to install it as usual. It got stuck at 61%. Since then my receiver stopped working, I called them and told them about my experience. They just said, "We apologize, we know the firmware for your receiver was listed as the correct one, but it is not compatible with your receiver." So out of irresponsibility, I now have a ruined receiver because Onkyo didn't delete the firmware from their website. Never again Onkyo.
Inexcusable. I wonder if there is any consumer protection available to you. Much like “lemon laws” holding a manufacturer or seller responsible for a 100%, no questions asked refund. Different states have different laws in place.
That is All kinds of Fu:::up sorry to hear that bro.
The wiim amp sounds great. Paired with bookshelf speakers that are on the detailed side as the wiim is slightly on the warm side for somthing in the digital realm. Even paired with a rega turntable it sounds good to my ears. Its very compact and packs great features.
Happy sunday. Cheers. Always down for an Onkyo review
So glad. Hope you enjoy the video!
Good to see you!
@@KristiWright always!
Onkyo gets the typical consumer. I fretted for years about what to do for watching movies and listening to my vintage audio components. I went with the Onkyo RZ-50 and I could not be happier. Contrary to some online comments from snobs, the sound is oustanding; clear and clean with great channel separation. And that thing absolutely cranks!
This TX-SR3100 looks like a screaming deal and an excellent option for a very large segment of the home audio market. The competition had better step it up in the value department or they will be left in the dust of overpriced home audio.
I started over a year ago with a Marantz Cinema 50, and slowly integrated and phased it out to a McIntosh stereo system. There’s some functionality I definitely miss but much prefer the simpler layout, I have my TV connected to the preamp through earc, a turntable and a WiiM pro plus as a streamer. I loved the cinema 50 but the audiophile in me took over the setup.
With all the apples to oranges comparison comments, I just wanted to affirm the comparison you made to the wiim amp. Just a few weeks ago I was deciding between a wiim amp vs a traditional budget AVR. So it is a valid and useful comparison.
Great video as usual. I agree with you on the ‘value’ of the cheap DAC amps.
Answer to your question? Heck ya! I grew up listening to my dad’s 2-channel HiFi systems (I still have his old Sansui G5700 with Technics turntable and other components, while he and mom are now running a Denon AVR and AppleTV).
My first system getting into college was a Sony AVR that had Dolby Pro-Logic and no center channel. I used it for music and movies. I later upgraded that for a Harmon AVR55. I really enjoyed that system for movies and music. When I bought my Marantz SR5007 several years later (it was time to adopt HDMI, lol), the HK AVR was paired to an Emotiva 3-channel power amp running two channels, my Dad’s turntable, and som Axiom M60 towers. At the time I also had a desktop system running a pair of PSB speakers, and a vintage Sansui setup. The HK receiver sounded great.
I have now replaced
The HK (movers broke it) with my Marantz 5007 (which is great as a two-channel music system with the same power amp from Emotiva), and set up a Marantz Cinema 70 as my movie system (thanks to your great review - and others).
While I have a nice Rotel/Monitor Audio system in my main floor listening environment, and a nice NAD/Q setup for my office, a vintage Marantz system in my gym area, and the vintage Sansui setup, I still love listening to the 2-channel coming out of that Marantz 5007 pre-amping the Emotiva XPR amp and Axiom M60 v4s.
So, heck ya, use what you got, enjoy your music!
Great video Andrew!
I like my Denon AVR. I would not limit the quality of speakers to use with it. I use it for a 2.1 system for video and music, and it is totally satisfying. The feature set and performance of AVRs is great for the money. Audyssey offers an EQ tool that let you pinpoint the frequencies who want to emphasize for best sound.
100%! Thanks for sharing!
Wiim Amp is perfect for my bedroom setup. 2.1 with ARC and Tidal Connect. The amount of support/updates that Wiim provides is staggering.
hear ya there my friend. I'm looking forward to the WiiM ultra. I'm going to make my speakers active and power them with the Fosi mono amps. Throw in some vinyl , tv and life will be good. Couldn't ask for anything more.
Great review! AVR can definitely be used for Hifi. Now waiting for the next backyard progress pick. Looked like the retaining wall was finished and backfilled . Looking good 👍🏻
Did you see my IG story yesterday? More updates this week 😉
The Onkyo click has always driven me insane with their receivers. Thanks for mentioning! I would like to know what it is, though.
My 17 year old Arcam AVR300 ($2,000 new in 2007) still rivals entry level separates in terms of sonic performance, with a huge toroidal transformer (a real 100w x 7) and capacitor bank, Stereo Direct option, and a bi-amp function for channels 6&7 to use on the main speakers, giving 200wpc on tap. More than enough for 90% of speakers on the market.
Appreciate your take here. Never heard the Wiim amp. Do have Wiim pro and a SMSL SU-1 Dac in my vintage systems. They play well together. Also have a Fosi BT20 blue tooth class d amp. Played so well on my vintage gear had to try it in my primary system. The Fosi pushed my $5000 Bryston A 1 very well. Rated 4 ohms and 88db efficient. Tbh was shocked how well. The Fosi will not replace my Hegel H190 but it was a fun experience. HiFi should be fun. All the best.
Nice job Andrew, and Happy Easter! I think the Wiim Amp's strong suit is exactly what you mentioned - to be tied into an existing amplifier for streaming use, or particularly as a source for lower volume listening, like my upcoming deck project, etc. The convenience of it is unparalleled, and the Wiim's do an _amazing_ job syncing throughout a home.
I listen to music using an AVR, we only have one space for music and movies so that was the easiest solution.
Love your reviews and agree with you here. I'm a retiree on a budget. Hence I have a Yamaha RX-V4A ($229/3yr warranty) for my main and a Fosi Audio ($50) for garage streaming. 😊
which fosi audio amp do you have? [im not going to critisize as i started with one and it is good]
@@luluyouidiot BT20A
Nice video showcasing lower cost products and their attributes. Can we expect a Focal speaker review soon?
Yes, soon.
Used to listen for many years on denon x3500h, adding crown xls 2500 made a huge improvement, so I appreciate avr with preouts
I have a Marantz 1510 and happy with it for stereo and movies. Absolutely, an AVR can definitely work for both.
100% agree! Thanks for sharing!
This is quite timely. I just purchased an older (2017, I think) Onkyo Tx-8270 on a whim. I tested it in place of my Audiolab 6000A Play with my Wharfedale Lintons, and much to my surprise, I love the sound even more than my Audiolab. I've A/B tested for about a week, and the Audiolab is getting sold. This was completely unexpected, but I'm more than happy with the older Onkyo.
I was into stereo music in the 70’s & 80’s. Got into AVR’s in the 90’s & 00’s and it sapped my love for music. Got back into 2 channel in the 10’s and my love for music has returned. Just saying AVRs are good for movies & TV but 2 or 2.1 channel for music is the way to go. Can’t beat it.
Just asking around. Do you think 2 channel equipment handles stereo much better than HT receivers ?. Thank you.
@@orangecat5036 Be honnest i had a harman kardon 161s avr (85w for stereo) for years and liked it very much 😊.
But the problem is that the amps in avrs are weaker, than what you would have in a true stereo system (because of this it sounds much fuller and powerfull)
Avrs are great is you use all it has, hdmi 5.1 etz) for stereo a stereo amp always wins 😊, and yes you will hear it.
Listening to music on a 5.1 system set to stereo sounds okay, but it doesn’t sound like a dedicated 2 channel system to me. But to be honest my 2 channel speakers and equipment make the comparison unfair. After getting back into stereo I’ve spent some money on my system. But that’s what I’m talking about. The AVRs didn’t motivate me to seek out better equipment. It was just music. But as soon as I went back to 2 channel I got bit by the audiophile bug all over again. Dang!
Awesome and fair review. Loved it. Looking to the future, affordable chip based amps are now being implemented with PFFB. Very soon, they will likely offer much better performance with varying load impedance. We all win from the competition as competing technologies continue to improve.
Very nice video. I just saw your other friends video on the Wiim. I feel more comfortable with a traditional amplifier. Thank you guys. Happy EASTER 🐰🐣
Other "friend?"
AVR's for 2CH HiFi are great
I've had a Deon AVR-2809 for the last 15 years.
It's been excellent as a HT receiver with a suite of Klipsch Reference towers and surrounds.
It's now the centrepiece of a simple 2.0 Setup, plug in a Chromecast Audio and it's now a modern streaming receiver. with a very nice phono stage built in.
Paired with the B&W 606 S2's (yes @andrew and half the internet hates these speakers)
Running with Audyssey correction built in tames down the B&W's where needed and they sound excellent "In my room"
Older higher end AVRs can be a bargain for two channel listening. As AVRs they are considered obsolete because they do not have the latest audio codecs, so no one wants them. For stereo listening none of that matters and many have really good amplifiers, dacs and, often, a half decent phono stage as well. Lots of them also have bi-amp capability so you can repurpose un-used amplifiers to bi-amp speakers if you are into that sort of thing.
My stereo is in my living room. So is my TV, Blu Ray, and my kids’ Nintendo Switch. AVRs do a fine job with stereo.
Something I wish you would do is something you touched on in the last unplugged: what is available today is an embarrassment of riches compared to twenty years ago. IDK if showing old components with prices adjusted for inflation and comparable performance with what you can get today, is feasible.
It often seems that many in our little niche want the world for $99.99.
For many years I used a Denon AVR-988 for both stereo music & HT and I never had any complaints. Granted, that was a higher end receiver at the time. Before that I had been using an old Newcastle R-725 (a Pro Logic unit) that was an absolute monster for 2-channel listening (it still is actually - friends are using it for that purpose). These days I have dedicated HT and stereo setups in my listening space. I don't HAVE to, but more toys = more fun, right? :)
Andrew, many years ago (2003?) when I was an installer I had a customer that had a home theater in his finished basement and he used at least 2-3 of the flagship Denon AVR's for video and audio. I think he may have had a separate 2 channel Denon amp for the front speakers but even when listening to music such as a CD or Record all the speakers were on. I think he had a 9.2 system at the time, possibly more than that. It could have been an 11.2 or 13.2! All I know was it played loud and the room pressurized very easily despite its large size.
Great video. I do still miss the immediacy of K’s responses and questions within the same video. I thought this part of your format was what really made a big difference. Also love your more general unplugged newsy chats. I also realise you can’t do everything as you put a lot of planning into everything you do.
This! So much this! Receivers are so criminally underrated. In just about every other walk of life, as the list of things something can do competently to even great grows, it becomes more and more in demand. Some audiophiles use this list as a checklist in reverse. Oh, you say it can do B, what a joke of a product then, no way am ai buying something that can do B, I just need A, don't want antlything else "distracting" it. It can't possibly be any good at A if it can also do B.
It is like someone who only speaks English who is buying interpreting service as he has a meeting with a German and French executive. They proudly tell him they have a great deal for him as he can get the services of one person that is a great interpreter for both languages for the session for only $1k. He then asks what do you have as far as separate interpreters that can't crossover between German and French? They say well we do have that available, but it will be $1,700 each, and you will lose a lot of abilities....... while she is still talking, the customer says I will take them!!!
I didn't want this getting too long, so I decided to break it up.
I keep seeing videos about these new hyped up 2 channel amps that are finally adding HDMI ARC. However, other than compact size, it is pretty hard to get excited when there are thousands of recent receivers with HDMI ARC that can be had used, shipped to my door for under $100 that will thoroughly destroy the Wiim Amp in stereo, and while the Wiim is still licking it's wounds the receiver will be kicking it on Avengers in 5.1.2!
Further upmarket, I haven't checked in the last couple of years, but literally no dedicated pre-amp could match, let alone beat the Denon x3600h on most measurements at Audio Science Review.
I am not going to say that all of these huge gains from integrated receivers or separates over receivers are placebo effect, but I will say that based on my personal testing, I don't see how it can be anything else in a lot of cases.
Me personally, I have plenty of dedicated amps, processors, and integrated amps around. However, nothing beats my Arcam AVR30 to my ears. I also find that I use receivers in most of my systems as I hear no penalty in quality and they just do everything I need, in a single box. What more can you ask for?
I dumped my Denon 5.1 AVR three years ago for the Cambridge CXA-81. Yes, I lost 5.1 for movies but for hi-fi playback, the sound from the CXA-81 smashes my old AVR to pieces. Not even close, night and day difference.
However, if I were to purchase a new AVR, and maybe I will one day, the Onkyo here would be on the shortlist. I just listen to music more now at my old age of 50+.
Nice choice in amp...I have CXA 80 and was very surprised at how snappy tight the bass response became. Clear and powerful.
You're AVR must have been crap then because my Denon x3800h has been a god send.. With my Wharfedale Standing speakers. And speakers on Stands and my SVS Subwoofer. Is absolutely stunning sound. Mind you i did get it professionally fitted for my room by a BANG & OLUFSEN.
@@ENGBriseB In fairness, it was an opening price point Denon with 5.1 so it is quite a mismatch versus the CXA-81. I've never heard the x3800h but it also would be on my shortlist. Big fan of Denon and Marantz. I'd also consider Onkyo (obviously) and Pioneer.
Despite the haters, I like the look of the new Jamo bookshelf speakers (albeit not a big fan of the upward rake tbh)
That's awesome! I prefer them with the grilles on myself, but they're not as interesting to film all covered up. Thanks for watching and for commenting!
Well, you’ve made it clear how u feel about the wiiM. My only complaint about this setup is form factor. Receivers are just too big.
The form factor is due to the functionality. The Wiim has one hdmi and two speaker connections. For the same price or so you get more channels and more inputs. As well as this being able to handle multiple rooms
@@user-jm8ky1kn2t Yup , I get that. But form factor is a big deal to me. I'm not interested in all the extra. I need one digital, one analog and possibly one HDMI . Nothing more and not interested in multiroom. The new WiiM ultra will be more than enough.
I think you said it in the first 10 seconds. For those who are always chasing dac/amps there should be a DAC of the month club like Trunk Club or Watch of the month club. 😅
@robinsonbrand excellent review. For my main listening area I have an Onkyo tx-nr6050 for both movies and music. Budget and space are factors. Loved the balance of this review.
Thanks!
Am I the only one that misses Christie's short but sweet comments directly after Andrew's take?
Tune in Fridays. Thanks for watching!
@@andrewrobinsonreviews Oh I know and I have been watching those, but I still miss her short comments directly on the review.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews I must admit it's harder for me to find time to watch the full episodes on Friday.
We appreciate you watching when you can.
They balance each other out really well. I'm moving toward watching the Friday video and only going back to the solo video if I want the full sales pitch.
Yes the sound of wiim amp is so amazing you here every thing especial when you set the eq wow
I had the Onkyo TX-RZ50 at one point and found if you set the speakers to 6 ohm or 4 ohm (I think you can only set to 6 ohm) that made that audible click never happen even if you were using 8 ohm speakers.
I use an Onkyo TX-RZ50 on a pair of Klipsch RP-8000FIIs, an SVS SB2000 Pro, a U-Turn Orbit Custom/Pluto 2 combo and couldn't be happier. 🤷🏼♂️
What additional features there is in Onkyo TX-RZ50 compared to Onkyo TXSR3100 and other budget AV receivers that made you spend the extra cash?
Yes do tell ??
Great video Andrew! Someone had to say it, electronically there is nothing that makes an AVR be worse then a 2 chan amplifier, it just depends on how each one of them is build.
For years I’ve been powering my Klipsch RF7-II’s with an old Onkyo TX-SR608 from 2010 and although the HDMIs are old versions the sound continues to be accurate, very strong and dynamic 👌
Happy Sunday Andrew and Kristi. Onkyo has been a brand that always seems to offer very competitive products in the entry level price point. Their entry level 2-channel integrated amp (I believe currently the $350 A-9110) has always been highly regarded at its price point but seems to fly under the radar.
Onkyo (and a lot of AVRs) fly under the radar with hifi enthusiasts, which makes NO sense to me.
Great product, great review! What's not to like? More than enough power, can be used for 2 channels listening and home theater as well, plenty of connections, analogue, digital and HDMI, the quality coming from a brand like Onkyo, the price, now on sale at the big box store for $339.00 and even has tone controls! The Wiim counterpart? Not even close!
An AVR for movies and music is gets you further up the quality ladder of both for the same money compared to separate systems for movies and music. I have a NAD AVR and Hsu Research speakers and sub and I challenge anyone to pick apart its stereo performance. Subs are also hugely underrated as additions to stereo systems.
For your question of you can use an AVR RECIEVER FOR STEREO I know because I doing it right now with a 7.1 Sony AVR RECIEVER and no problems
I have a wiim amp and love it . have two Kef bookshelf speakers . The wiim amp is much smaller allowing me to place it on my office desk . Overall I would still pick wiim.
In a desktop situation where you don't need to turn things up since you're listening in the near field, I'm not surprised that you are happy with your purchase.
I would go for Yamaha wxa50 ,,,small amplifier much better than wim i supose
@@jawadtaheri4989 have you heard them both ?? I use wiime all around the house for multi room whole house audio .
exactly, choose the Wiim Amp for the right application. I would not place it at the core of your main audio/video center.
I bought one of those little amps for my garage. It is, absolutely, in every way, inferior to even a basic mainstream amp. The ONLY nice things about it:
1. it’s small and fits anywhere.
2. it has no vents so it will likely last longer in my sometimes less than super clean garage.
I would love if you could assign the channels as 4.2.1, meaning re-assigning the center channel as a mono height. Sure it won't give you much in the way of stereo height movement, but if you're a single listener? I can see it being a great budget option for "Atmos". Sadly that's not something Atmos supports
That's a great idea! Unfortunately I haven't seen any receiver with that option.
If you buy two subs, you can afford another atmos speaker.
Yes, you can use AVRs for 2-channel hi-fi listening. I use a Pioneer Elite SC-LX501 for both home theater and stereo music, both with great results. I also use and old Sony DA4ES as a stereo amp to power my desktop system, running HDMI from the computer into the TV that I use as a monitor and then optical from the TV to the receiver. This also sounds great.
Thank you for the avr truth! My 20yo pioneer elite vsx-94txh is so versatile with multiple inputs including hdmi and phono. Paired with a wiim mini streamer and with plenty of power to drive my polk es20 speakers, I couldn’t be happier.
I bought the RXV6A a couple years ago and really like it, especially MusicCast to my surprise. Still I sometimes think about looking for a used Denon like the one this Yamaha replaced when it died. I find I miss the preamp outs and 7 channel input more than I like atmos and HDMI. I realize this makes me sort of a dinosaur.
I agree with you about pre-outs. Pre-outs are still a prerequisite on a receiver for me. It's just ridiculous how much they expect you to pay to get them on new AVRs these days, which is one reason why I stick with used, and I don't use my receivers for video so I don't care about HDMI inputs.
I agree with the comment on using an AVR in stereo mode for music listening. Many people automatically assume that an AVR cannot sound good or cannot compete with an integrated amp in the same price range. I believe that most of those people have never really listened to music through an AVR before. I have a Sony mid-price AVR (from 5-6 years ago) that, to me, sounds much better than an NAD integrated amp at the same price - clearer, cleaner and more even across the frequency range.
I agree! Appreciate you sharing!
What a weird comparison of product with the wiim amp. Fine review of the onkyo but completely different use cases.
You buy the wiim amp because of the streamer that also has an amp/dac built inside. The fact that you don't have built in streaming plus already making it slightly more expensive you're nearly double the price already. Yes the wiim amp doesn't have hdmi 2.2, fine. Its not really made for home theater. the better comparison would be a used receiver that also doesn't have 2.2 at a fraction of the price. Still, that wouldn't even talk about aesthetics which typically are big on your channel.
I bought a wiim amp because its small, aesthetically pleasing and easily places 2.0/2.1 with minimal effort and minimalist look. You don't have to plug anything else into it and it looks great on table top. If i want i can add a record player. Eventually, i might add a frame tv to my common/living room mounted on my wall above my sound system with hidden wires. Now picture that set up with a big black box onkyo avr. Id have to buy a specific piece of furniture to hide the thing that wont overheat or have it sitting out. Night and day different product.
I'm glad you're enjoying your WiiM, that's all I want for anyone. I just find the WiiM to be overhyped (not to mention misleading with respect to its specs). In this case, a lot of would be WiiM customers, specifically those looking for a solution for their living rooms etc., would be doing themselves a disservice by ignoring AVRs like the Onkyo. That's all. I will concur that the WiiM is the "sexier" looking package, but it doesn't deliver on all that it promises as it relates to power and sound quality, which we (and others) have demonstrated. To me that's reason enough NOT to give a company my business, for if they're okay with lying to customers, that's not a business I want to reward with my money.
@@andrewrobinsonreviews thanks for the reply. I think some of what you're saying is valid about performance and the wiim amp is not an end all be all product. I am saying it seems like 2 or 3 separate conversations.
1) this Onkyo is a good product, here's why, heres a review. Consider buying it over a class d chifi amp
2) this streamer amp combo is overrated and over hyped. Its specs dont deliver. Still, its a streamer first so recommending a non streamer doesn't make sense
3) don't want to give recommendations on products/companies that aren't honest on specs/delivery. Then you recommended wiim product as a pairing is pretty counter to your argument. I understand the wiim pro/plus/ standard is a different product but stll same org. Also, plenty of avr companies seem to lie about watts/specs.
With all of that said, i do enjoy your content and thank you for putting it out there. This just seems like a pretty odd head to head and to me. it seems like a shoehorned gripe with the wiim amp pushed into this Onkyo review
WiiM Amp is not a Hi-Fi product. But a WiiM streamer with a budget friendly AV receiver like the mentioned Onkyo is the way to go. I like more aesthetics of the WiiM Amp, and its dimensions too, but do we want to live in the future with audio products who almost destroying Hi-Fi values? WiiM must be accepted as a borderline supplement to the Hi-Fi world and not like one of the leading forces for future innovations for good sound. On the positive side WiiM and SONOS are the fancy way to better sound with those, shall we say, lifestyle products. I personally could buy a WiiM amp and after two years of decision making I am coming to purchase Onkyo for sure. Those are not needed steps for audiophile hobby.
@@MotoMatini Is streaming not hi-fi because it's not analog? Seems like think so when you use the words borderline supplement.
Perhaps a wiim amp isnt "hifi." So what? Its a cheap, minimalist product as outlined above that can play pretty decent quality sound for a variety of speakers with strong spousal approval factor. Not every rig in your house needs to be your definition of "hi-fi." It'll still sounds better than most common peoples' set-ups.
you could also do just that (2 years and upgrade the amp/dac) and use the wiim amp simply just as streamer like the wiim pro plus and wouldn't have spent much more.
Again, my point is that these are 2 very different products for very different use cases. IDGAF about 5 channels or dolby services that the onkyo provides for my use case, i do want streaming though which it doesn't.
Its like arguing my truck doesn't hold as many people as your mini-van. Sure, but it hauls things, thats why i got it. Yeah, i guess you can attach a trailer to your minivan but they're very still different and for different uses.
Lastly, this "it isn't hifi" thing seems very gatekeepy.
OK, here in Norway is 02:39 on my clock, but I shall respond. Yes, one product is a truck and another is a minivan in the car world. Many people buy what they want to have and not necessarily what they really need. But regardless of the product, if the producent of a truck or minivan shows 200 HP strong engines, then I want to pay for 200 HP. But if I find that truck essentially has 180 HP I buy a minivan. Hi-Fi world is even more rigid on produsent data and there laying my borderline mark. You are right, the WiiM Amp is OK and people want simplicity and style. Like every other new product, WiiM and SONOS need time to implement refinement in solutions and sound stages. I am more for traditional Hi-Fi and the lack of better designs among "ordinary" AV receivers is not good for the Hi-Fi world. But many new products are very good and consumers have a variety of choices like never before. Nice!
I on a Onkyo A-9010 and it destroys amps up to 700$, even the Rotel A11 Tribute, was cleaner sounding but not as exiting as the onkyo. Onkyo is deeply undervalued and a hidden gem!
The A-9010 looks like a solid piece. I haven't heard it myself, but thanks for the tip!
I started with stereo speakers connected to a NAD D3020. Then I replaced the NAD with a Marantz Receiver (slim line - nothing fancy). I believe the DSP alone was sufficient to enhance the sound of the same speakers on the Marantz. Considering all the functionality, I have no doubt that a receiver can outperform an integrated amp, at least at the entry level.
I have a NAD D3020, compared to your new amp without the DSP (if you tested it), did you find any significant difference? I compared it to my other amp (a Denon) and found it really hard to perceive any difference. I also compared it to one of those cheap class D Chinese amps and there was some difference, but a very small one, certainly not 10x difference (as the price). I'm starting to think that amps are quite easy to build nowadays, after all an amp just has to amplify the sound with the minimum coloration possible, and this does not require super expensive equipment (while speakers are another story).
@@TommasoPaba As far as I can remember, I think the Marantz without DSP was worse than the NAD. Nothing crazy, but the treble was harsh on the Marantz. I also compared the NAD with some cheap Topping and there was almost no difference. Lastly, I also tried the same speakers with an entry-level Cambridge Audio, and it was the worst of all - the sound was muddy. So, I think the amp can make a difference, but not always