How Women Could and Couldn’t Lead in the Old Testament: Women in Ministry part 3
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- I spent months researching the topic of women in ministry so that I could present you with this exhaustive analysis of everything the Bible says about it. Today we are surveying the Old Testament to look for examples of women in positions like leadership.
We'll see Deborah, an actual "judge" of Israel who definitely exercised real authority in ancient Israel with God's approval. How does that impact our view of women's roles? Was Deborah limited in her role in any way?
We'll look at Miriam and ask if she was a leader like Moses during the time of Exodus.
Many egalitarians claim that there are quite a few women in leadership roles in the Old Testament. Women as civic authorities, royal authorities, prophetesses (and there's no denying that one!).
While there are more women in roles that carry some degree of authority than many of us have realized we still need to answer the question of why they were forbidden from being priests in the service of God even though pagan religions had female priests. I'll tackle both sides and try real hard not to go beyond the text of Scripture.
I want to make sure that whatever my understanding of the New Testament teaching on women in ministry is, it's consistent with God's overall revelation and example of how He used women in the Old Testament.
CLICK HERE ( • Why We Can't Think Bib... ) for the playlist of ALL the videos in this series (more will be added as I make them).
CLICK HERE for the notes from today’s study. biblethinker.org/wp-content/u...
You can also find more videos freely available on my website:
BibleThinker.org
Video Map for Quick Reference:
0:00 Introduction & Part 1&2 Recap
1. 13:49 Miriam as a Leader of Israel
2. 34:54 Huldah the Prophetess
3. 42:42 Isaiah’s Wife
4. 43:54 Noadiah
5. 47:24 Deborah the Judge
6. 1:11:28 Jezebel
7. 1:14:15 Athaliah
8. 1:16:57 Esther and others
9. 1:25:07 The Isaiah 3 Passage
10. 1:35:09 Why Weren’t Women Priests?
11. 1:49:57 Conclusions
12. 1:50:58 Coming Up Next in Part 4
Video Map for Quick Reference:
0:00 Introduction & Part 1&2 Recap
1. 13:49 Miriam as a Leader of Israel
2. 34:54 Huldah the Prophetess
3. 42:42 Isaiah’s Wife
4. 43:54 Noadiah
5. 47:24 Deborah the Judge
6. 1:11:28 Jezebel
7. 1:14:15 Athaliah
8. 1:16:57 Esther
9. 1:35:09 Why Weren’t Women Priests?
10. 1:49:57 Conclusions
11. 1:50:58 Coming Up Next in Part 4
I like this 👌🏻! Good job @Sarah 😃
@@HopeKuhn Yay!! Thank you!! ❤️🎊💕
Welcome back!
@@ericedwards8902 Thank you!!
@Yoel Cohen Since Mike Winger nor Sarah Zimmerman won't answer you this way, I will: Did you watch the video? No. Because if you had you would know what was actually communicated about those particular examples. They were not on any list to prove that they were leaders of Israel, but to be explored since both complinentarians and egalitarians use them to prove separate points. Pastor Winger generally agrees with what you point out...and you would have know that if you had WATCHED THE VIDEO before jumping on here to flex about studying the law.
I wanna just show some appreciation for the amount of work this guy puts into his job, and the personal dedication he shows through that.
Same here. Mike is saying that this is an exhaustive study and I'm thinking that he must have been exhausted from all his research on the subject..
Glory to God for Pastor Mikes mind and heart especially his gentle instruction.
Amen
@@krustysurfer Amen! All while being the very best boss to work for! :)
Mike is the bomb. As a woman I have struggled in these areas. And this series has given me such a sense of relief! God has answered my prayers through this study and Pastor Mike Winger.
Please keep not caring about offending people by saying the truth, Mike. Never bow down to society! _And whoever really values what the Bible says will not be offended anyway._
The Bible will still offend you. Even if you are a believer. Because we're wicked.
Thank you for speaking up there. Yes, the Bible will most assuredly step on some toes. James 3:17 is what I use as a guide before allowing doctorine in... If it doesn't line up, while my toes are being stepped on, then I don't fully recieve it. However, I'm not gonna throw the baby out with the bath water. You don't have to agree with me, to go to heaven. And I don't have to agree with you... However, if it makes you, or me, study my Bible more, then surely it brings life. But, if it pushes me away, then destruction.... We can't be arrogant with our brothers and sisters, because Jesus said it's better a millstone to be tied around one's neck, and cast into the sea, if one was to offend one of His little ones... With that conviction, that's when I'd personally, feel a little more comfortable with moving forward, with my words.
Thank you so much for speaking up here, because we all get stretched, and if we don't....
I appreciate Mike's soft approach and tact.
I have encountered many people who have been unnecessarily offensive.
Thank you Mike.
I lean toward an egalitarian approach out of respect for the Bible and *not* because of society. To broad-brush all egalitarians as bowing to societal pressure is untrue. I bow to the text of Scripture before I do to secular *or* church culture...
@@overthinkingchristian8732 the bible doesn't support your leaning
It's incredible how people can write books and articles, even quote the scripture but be totally twisting what the bible actually says, scary! Thank God for discerning pastors like you Mike 🙏🏾
I was shocked by that too.
I find it interesting how just reading the scripture in their language they still don't get it right, even before they add culture, context & language of when it was written.
I was taught that man writes books, God wrote the Bible, follow God not man.
I was just thinking something very similar while listening. They write these books, take a small piece of scripture and then blow it wayyyy out of proportion into some elaborate thing that tries to hammer it into their favorite ungodly ideology. It's wearisome, frankly.
Amen
“Excited.” Are you kidding???? Mike, this is all beautifully exciting! I’m in awe of not only the research you’re doing, but the way you present it, by keeping it with a heart of humility, fairness, and genuine concern for those who hold to either view. You’re a true godly man. I thank you for all you’ve done and are doing. I’m so blessed by your ministry!!!!
👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼!!!
Very well put. ❤
I'm leading the music in church for the first time tomorrow, and it's such an encouragement to hear about all of these women who God used to lead His people in praise. Thank you!
even so woman or not to exercise authority over or teach a man and have no place in ministry
1Timothy 2
@@dawnmcknight3890if you ever make it to 2nd Timothy you'd read about Paul commending Tim's Mother and Grandmother for being great teachers to him
@dawnmcknight3890 Leading worship doesn't involve teaching OR exercising authority, so not sure why this is relevant?
@@toddthacker8258 perhaps saying "please stand" is exercising too much authority ;) LOLOL
@@allieoneal2033 Yeah, it's pretty crazy. I'm pretty much a soft complementarian myself, I guess, but we should be very cautious about putting (or unnecessarily expanding) restrictions on people not actually found in Scripture. I mean, it seems like Deborah led worship in Judges 5.
I really appreciate you, Mike! I have been in several heated debates on women in ministry and your presentation is balanced and seems deeply rooted in Scripture. Thank you for your many hours of study and preparation.
Thank you for this study. I have struggled accepting Biblical female roles because it was presented all wrong, but as I have accepted God's word for my life I find it more freeing and like I am accomplishing more by staying within my boundaries.
James 3:17
Yes girl! Me too. My husband leads but he also needs to take responsibility. That thought is so freeing to me!
Internalised sexism.
@@j-mshistorycorner6932 "Internalized sexism" LOL! Where do you people come up with these terms?
@@alstroemeria227again4 From real-world observations.
Thanks Mike for another great teaching. As a Christian woman I truly love to see men functioning in the capacity God created them for, I'm also willing to be obedient to God and fill in where ever He desires me to.
I really can't tell you enough how much I appreciate you doing this. I am a complementarian as well, but I've felt like the subject has been oversimplified by our side and usually comes across as unimportant. Thank you for taking the time to study this complex topic and teach it in an organized clear way with kindness and humility.
Nothing against women, but something doesn’t feel right about a woman leading a group of men. I say that as a shame to the men, for not stepping up as leaders. Not to the woman who is forced to step up because men won’t. I also wouldn’t feel right with a man leading a group of women, but for a completely different reason. Maybe the fact we see Jesus as a male figure is what makes it feel more natural & fitting to be led by men.
@@JC-li8kk I suspect the feeling is just perception of what you have grown up seeing. I don't mean to dismiss it or imply it could have been any different though. As far as I know every culture has had vast majority of male leaders. That would form our perception and shape feelings about it.
If I had to guess it is due to pregnancy. Almost consequence in life is worst for women then men. With pregnancy being the ultimate example of this. So if you do this "we split the bill" thing, that will lead to huge inequality over time. The deck has to be stacked in women's favor socially to make up for biology. So in marriage more responsibility is put on men as this balancing force. Responsibility turns into the power we think of as leadership. So basically if the guy isn't deadbeat, all other things being equal, the men will be in a leader position. Shame to men for not stepping up is correct.
Though I will point out, if i am correct then this would apply far less to a women without children. I think that is why many feminists push so hard against having kids.
@@viperstriker4728 I’m just speaking from a biblical point of view. Every single scripture we have was written by a man. Why do you think that is? Even the book of Esther & Ruth were written by men.
@@JC-li8kk I don't disagree with your conclusion, as the Bible plainly states men are the head of the house and church. But your argument of every book being written by men is both unprovable and irrelevant.
By emphasizing that it was written by men you just leave open the attack of it being created to oppress women, which is what feminists say about basically any historical document.
So instead I would recommend you use the contents of the Bible to back up your belief. And beware of the genetic fallacy.
I am pretty strongly complementarian. Growing up I loved learning about the women in the Old Testament. I love that they heard from God and were involved in everyday life. They were important enough that their names were recorded, even some women that just inherited property or were involved in non-leadership roles. It reminds me of a sermon I heard recently about how God knows each of our names, irregardless of how important we are in society.
Each time one of these videos comes out, I think, "But what's the rule? How do we apply it to today???" And then I have to stop myself and remind myself it's an exercise in starting with the Bible. I see the intentionality in the way you've chosen to teach this, and I'm so appreciative.
This is a course not a single teaching. Pastor Winger will get to every aspect of his subject.
Your first video was dripping with wisdom. If we don't come with that willingness to receive whatever God's word says there's no sense of us even listening to the rest of this series
Mike Winger is one of the best and biblically sound teachers today. My wife and I have been diving into this series and we love how Mike stands on biblical truth.
Thank you for this series Mike & tackling these taboo (although not sure why it is) subjects. Keep it up!
Mike, what I appreciate most about your ministry is how respectfully you present all sides of a topic or study. Even when you present your own views on something, you do so with complete respect and humility. I wish all Christian ministry channels could operate the way that you do. Thanks for your hard work and ministry.
Yes! I also wanted to say, before I watched the video, that, the pagan nations had many priestess, who had a lot of goddess/moon goddesses worship. God wanted to set Israel apart. And as a woman I have no problem with that. People who are feminists usually lean to paganism and goddess worship. The things of God are hated by people in the world all the time. Even without it being about complimentarianism, he wanted his nation to be set apart
Are you Jewish? According to your own words, if you are not Jewish, the commands of the biblical god do not apply to you.
@@carmensavu5122 what a silly comment carmen LOL. everyone; jew, scythian or barbarian should follow the commands of God.
@@carmensavu5122 ohhh nvm you aint just being silly, you're serious, i now realize you're in everyones replies whining and insulting them. i pray your heart stops being so full of hate
@@NoOneInParticular88😂
being a prophet or prophetess does not mean you always talk about the future means you are divinely inspired to speak the word of God.
Edification, exhortation, and comfort. That is, in my opinion, why Paul encouraged the church at Corinth to desire prophecy for the health and building up of the body.
@@debblouin edification is teaching - helping the church learn.
For me I believe due to the end time fall of men just like in those days God is calling women to ministry because even the Bible says that God will raise stones to worship him
Thank you for your extensive research on this topic. I know of several female pastors (went to the ordination of one) and I have never felt comfortable around Pastor's who are female. Listening to this teaching is helping me to see if my discernment is just me or from the Lord. I will continue through the series, God willing.
Thanks for your comment. I only started giving thought to women “pastors” about five years or so ago when I felt uncomfortable sitting under the teaching of any visiting female pastors at church, but have difficulty in explaining why. I’m thankful for Mikes clear patient teaching for people like myself who struggle to articulate in debates. Hopefully by the end of this study I’ll be more solid and confident in my understanding and discernment.
@@torikirsty9075 My college seems to believe it’s a sin to not hire a woman as the college’s pastor. And they are all insane and liberal (they would be if they were men, to be clear). The first time I went to a church service the pastor butchered the interpretation when the interpretation was given a chapter later (it was the parable of the seeds). She also reverently sang “Party in the USA.” I’m not kidding.
My husband & I are both Ordained Ministers. Women should be ministers to women- what a mission field! "Older women- teach the younger women..."
I appreciate your time spent on the topic of women. Bring raised in a Christian (but with feminist ideations), it caused such destruction and confusion in my own marriage and life as a woman. Knowing God has called me to talk with others about this very thing, led me to more studying than I have ever done as I do not want to lead others down this horribly twisted path. This study led me to your channel, and I couldn't be more grateful!
If you wouldn't mind sharing, what sort of destruction? Was there curtain idea in feminism that you think caused curtain effects?
I'm not married yet and I'm trying to sort out what the gender roles are suppose to be. So any first hand observations would be very helpful.
Really thankful for your time and the effort you put into this series! I’m not sure I’ve ever heard anyone speak before with the same emphasis and interest in real bible truth as you do. I especially appreciate your neutral approach to every topic which allows Gods word to speak for itself. Studying with you leaves me feeling fed and inspires me to grow more in my love for God’s word. Thank you- our family is praying for yours!
My thoughts exactly!!☺️
Yes, I still can’t tell you which side of the fence he’s on. He says complimentarian but he’s more of a hybrid in my opinion. I would never say women have no place in leadership in any circumstance. I think it would be more ideal to have men leaders for a group of men or mixed group, & women leaders overseeing children & a group of women with also some male figure to collaborate with or check in with. As a man I am always checking in with my mother & wife to see how my ideologies & interpretation of scripture compliment or conflict with theirs so this doesn’t only apply to women. Man needed a helper for a reason. We aren’t meant to go it alone without women especially when it comes to the fullness of ministry. The church would not be complete without women. When life is going great it’s fine to be surrounded by men. But when life knocks the wind out of you there is nothing like the love & compassion & encouragement of a good woman to get you back on your feet.
I am still making my way through the video - but I want to 'Thank You' for tackling this series!! It is much needed.
I appreciate the slow, careful, thoughtful, humble, and detailed work on these sets of videos on women in ministry. As a woman, I really want to know what the Bible says about this, and not just follow the cultural trends. As I mentor other women, I need to have a good Biblical view of this! Thank you for your countless hours of research and for always taking this issue to the Word of God, IN CONTEXT, to see what God says about it!
I was hoping you would talk about Sheba. She seems like an interesting example of a queen, without a husband who is good and wise. Now she is a foreigner and does come to pay her respects to Solomon. It’s just a very interesting story to add to this.
This was more interesting and exciting than any Hollywood movie! I feel very satisfied with the section on Deborah. Can't wait for the next part
Amen! Well said!
A lack of peace is one of the fruits I’ve seen from the female pastors I’ve been around. While I love them and know they genuinely love Jesus, I believe there’s a reason for their underlying unease and defensiveness. Pastor Mike, I can’t thank you enough for the effort you’ve been putting into this tough topic and heated debate!!
Such a blessing Pastor Mike! Just to add more, I think the argument that person was trying to make was regarding Leviticus 15:19-33. Both men and women who had bodily emissions, were to be excluded from the Tabernacle. But I am assuming she was trying to present the argument that for women, automatically every month they would be considered ‘unclean’, so it wouldn’t make sense for them to be priests, as the priests had to be the ones to purify the ‘unclean’ before the Lord. Just guessing though!
That's what I was thinking. And because the exact timing of childbirth and menstruation cannot be determined to me this is an indirect reason why women should not serve as priests. Obviously not the main reason but it's a really good one of my opinion
Been waiting for this forever!! SO appreciative of the time, energy and heart you've put into this topic. 😊 Thank you. Very much. A lot.
Prayerfully,
Fellow Bible Nerd 🤓 📖
When you were talking about Eve being made to be a fit helper, I smiled a little to think, Adam needed a helper. We need one another!
Yes, Adam needed Eve's help to be fruitful and multiply
Yes! Absolutely! help mates for each other 😊
@@bloominmelbourne8020 and to rule and subdue the earth
I agree, and will take it a step further. The word HELP in Genesis 2:18 (# 5828 in Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and Lexicon) is also used in reference to GOD in Exodus 18:4 and Deuteronomy 34:29. The word does not, and can not be understood to mean that the one helping is secondary to or under the authority of the one being helped.
@@nicoleparsons7630 It frustrates me when people underestimate the value and importance of women in supporting men and vice versa. We need one another and when you have a truly supportive wife both of you can really reach your potentials and find the fruits of the spirit. It's a blessing and an invaluable role as supporter and helper. Two "leaders" in a marriage means conflict and butting of heads, whereas one leader and helper means love, support, good deliberation and counsel within the marriage in making big decisions as a couple with less selfishness on either side (if the roles are filled biblically as the husband makes choices from love for his wife and the wife supports those choices by loving submission and support in giving her honest thoughts).
Thank you so much for your teaching. I appreciate the inclusion of the context of Scripture. I’ve been a pastor although I no longer serve in that role. I’ve changed my understanding even before watching your videos.
This is super enlightening for me as a young Christian!!! Thanks for the incredible content bro 🙏
Thank you for putting so much research into this and sharing it with us. I’ve just begun working on a degree in ministry so it’s helpful to get as much information as possible on women in ministry. I’m not wanting to step out of any God-placed boundaries but I do want to be fully confident that when it’s time to step into my future position I will be confident that it is a God honouring role.
It’s so refreshing to have this video on females roles in the Bible. I’ve been telling some friends and acquaintances how women aren’t supposed to be Pastors and elders but I’m met with disdain. I’ve even lost relationships and also lost a job because I spoke up about a certain woman who is a Pastor and she was speaking at a church near me. I was invited and turned it down and mentioned that I didn’t want to support a woman in a role God didn’t ordain for her. I was fired not too long after that. Thanks for telling THE TRUTH. Not what people think the truth is but the REAL truth. Gives me encouragement to keep speaking up myself.
Translation: I'm not going to speak because my abusive imaginary friend told me I couldn't based on the set of reproductive organs I have. Yup, makes perfect sense.
keep it up my friend! The battle for Biblical truth never ends, even at a supposedly "Christian" college like I attend.
One thing I came across in researching the early church is in Pliny's letter to Trajan regarding Christians in the early 100's AD he says this: "Accordingly, I judged it all the more necessary to find out what the truth was by torturing two female slaves who were called deaconesses."
Interesting that so early on there were women in the church who identified by that title. Then I found that Phoebe is called a deaconess in Romans 16:1. Deacon can translate simply to helper or servant, but I think in the context especially of Pliny's letter that he understood it to be a title. That gives me pause as I consider how much should be read into the gender specific language of qualifiers in 1 Tim 3:8-13. I don't know enough Greek to know if there would have been a simple way to give similar instructions in gender neutral language, like "a deacon should be faithful to one spouse" rather than "the husband of one wife". If the church in Pliny's jurisdiction was privy to Paul's letters to Timothy by then (which I think is likely as they had a position called deacon) it seems they did not interpret the qualifications as a hard statement of gender specificity. Keeping in mind that the particular church the deaconesses were part of may not have had perfect doctrine, but it still seems significant as a very early example.
Can you give that exact citation?
@@jordandthornburg I just tried leaving a comment with a link but it got auto removed by the comment spam filter. If you Google "Pliny's letter to Trajan" several sites will come up with the letter in full. It's not long. The quote about the deaconesses is from the end of the second to last paragraph.
I'm sure even in greek husband means husband
@@RabbiMurray Yes, but language does not always use words in rigid specificity. For example, Jesus uses gender specific words in saying "everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgement". It is by common sense that we understand Jesus's use of "his" and "brother" does not exclude the application of the saying to women also. Sometimes gender specific terms do carry the intent of limiting application, and sometimes they are used to exemplify broader application. In a case where it really matters in which way the language is being used (as in 1 Tim 3) it's worth some careful study before making a definitive conclusion.
Whether a deacon is a male or female doesn’t matter unless you are trying to claim that women cannot serve in ministry at all, or that a deacon is the same as a priest or elder. There are no biblical restrictions for deacons because deacons can serve in many capacities, but are not what Paul would refer to as “spiritual authorities” or an overseer.
Are you saying that a deacon is the same as an elder or priest according to scripture?
If you are concerned about husband only meaning “spouse” in this instance, the Greek word does mean husband. It is the same word used for Joseph being the husband of Mary, and any time it is used outside a marriage context, it is used to mean a “man.” 1 Timothy 3:2 could be read either as “husband of one wife,” or “man of one woman.” Both mean the same thing and are explicitly referring to a man being married to a woman.
Hey brother, I just want to thank you and tell you how much of a blessing you have been in my growth as a Christian. Your thoughtfulness, meekness, and humbleness that goes with your teaching has been eye opening to me as a preacher and teacher. But, above all I am thankful that you prioritize biblical thinking and what the Word says above all else! I'll be praying for you and this series because it has opened my eyes and shown me where I was using my preconceived notions when reading and understanding this important issue!
Well done, Mike! As usual, God's word does not wholly affirm either of the human 'sides' we've made... but that doesn't mean both sides are off-base in equal proportion!
I can't even tell you how excited I am about this series. Thank you so much for wading through the trenches for us.
Brother I have been waiting for this series and am so thankful for you and how seriously and thoroughly you handle scripture in this topic. As someone with a desire to help bring more exegetical teaching and biblical thinking into my church body (to clarify I’m a layperson in the church) I have been extremely blessed by your ministry. Thank you for feeding the sheep!
I so appreciate your reasoned approach to potentially divisive topics. I love the length of your videos and the logical way you arrange the material you are sharing. Thank you for the work you are doing! So many “sermons” now are so short as to be worthless and it seems that true biblical study is rare. You fill a gaping void and teach us the proper way to approach and reason through what the Bible has to say. Thank you!!!
I reaaaallly appreciate what you’re doing here and that you’re taking the time to be thorough. It’s so needed.
I love this sort of study. It answers questions I didn't even know I had. It helps prepare me to answer questions I may be faced with from others and it forces me to study on my own just so I know what I think independent of what your teaching is.
Really enjoying these thought provoking, insightful presentations. You cleared up some questions and misunderstandings I had about Deborah.
My husband and I watch these together and discuss many of your points.
Thank you for tackling this topic with concise Biblical instruction.
Thank you pastor Mike for having the courage to stay biblical and not just following what popular scholars are saying, from both sides. Looking forward for the next episode.
I’m really appreciating this series, Mr Winger! Thank you for the hours of research you’ve put into this. You are thorough!
Wonderful teaching Pastor Mike . I believe I can speak for many watching and following your teaching , in that even with Bible software and access to volumes of research in our grasp , we could never dig as deep and pull out the massive amounts of factual data that you produce .. I have told you and your wife in comments before that i've followed J Vernon McGee for 45yrs + and he has been a main source for my Bible study ,, well you have now { in my heart & mind } been promoted to equal status with him . I've went through the 5yr Bible Bus trip 5 times , read his commentaries , pamphlets , transcripts of sermons & lectures , etc , etc . You Sir have given me more information , and alot of it new info than J Vernon has .. I wish he was alive so he could see your dedication , devotion & motivation to give those you teach everything they could possibly need to learn to think biblically about everything ,, he would be so proud of your loyality to the Word of God . I am proud to have donated to your ministry , and will continue to everytime i'm able to .. I believe that every believer should give back to those they get the most from .. I have NEVER seen you once during rebuttals , or clarifying an incorrect teaching , or in answers to rude Athiests , give anything other than a solid defense of His Word and no personal attacks back at them . You are a good Man Pastor and I hope one day when we are with Christ in Gods glorious kingdom , that He will show you how many souls are there because you lead them to the foot of the Cross of Jesus Christ . God Bless your Wife Pastor Mike , without her support , you would not be able to do the mass amount of work you do .. You two are an AWESOME team ..
Thank you for doing this series! You are answering some questions I've had for a long time--like you often do!! I love the way you are showing both sides of the issue, what they say, and then what the Bible says. I appreciate all the many hours you spend researching the Bible and all the sources. I'm sure that is all very time consuming. When I first came back to the Lord--I know now that He was still holding on to me, even though I tried to get away from Him after I left a cult--I felt very uncomfortable about the issue of homosexuality. Even though I knew what the Bible said about it, I actually felt guilty for thinking that my friends and family were sinning by who they were loving. Then I listened to your series on that subject and by the end of it, I felt peace in my heart about what the Bible says. I also wondered if I was or wasn't allowed to get remarried after divorce and I listened to your sermon on that and I know I am and I have peace about that! You have really helped me in some very key issues!! Thank you!
Thanks for the thoughtful and objective engagement with both views and the critical engagement of the text. I was greatly blessed!
Thank you so much Mike!! This is what I want/need! Not a summary but an in DEPTH study. Praying the Lord blesses your ministry so you can keep sharing. 😭❤️
Hi Mike, I really appreciate you taking the time to do a deep dive into this important topic. I’m finding it interesting and helpful! Thank you!
I for one am loving the fact you arent putting this in 140 characters and are putting out 140 minute videos =D
Thank you so much for this series! You've been going more in depth than I even know how to on my own. I appreciate the time spent on this.
I look forward to each video in this series. I'm so pleased that you intend to be thorough with each topic.
I am ABSOLUTELY stoked about these videos and this series, and I appreciate the amount of information in these videos!
Thank you so much for this! No complaints about length I so appreciate all the work it has taken to put this together, I never thought I'd really be able to understand this topic but you are helping to bring such clarity looking forward to the ones to come!
I say make them longer! I’m savoring every moment. Pastor Mike you are so kind and fair I admire you for that but Gods word is what I cleave to. My heart was literally broken going back to the verses that were used for backing up their findings. They weren’t even close and that also made me angry. You are gifted to teach and it’s a beautiful thing to witness. God bless I’m counting down starting now for more meat! PS I think you might be allergic to Moxie 😂😂😂her name suits her🙏
Thank you pastor Mike for all the work you do and clearing up some issues. You have really corrected some of my views. May God keep blessing you and your family and give you His wisdom to serve HIM faithfully. ( Looking forward to The Hebrews series)
Thanks for this comprehensive study! Your videos are not too long! They're great and so resourceful. I appreciate that you're not trying to convince us one way or the other-you're simply trying to give us a tool to walk through the bible in regards to this topic. I appreciate your ministry tremendously!
I'm so grateful for your ministry, and for this series specifically.
In your opinion, is there a place for a complementarian women in seminary school? I have no intention of taking on a leadership role, but I am deeply interested in and passionate about theology and apologetics. Is there any valid reason for me to pursue that at a scholarly level?
I think so. But I’ll share more about all that as the series progresses.
I can think of at least three serious and one humorous reason why a complementarian woman would go to seminary. 1. This is intellectually fulfilling. 2. The study helps us know more about God, and potentially grow closer to Him. 3. This could help her in her own future ministry to other women and children. 4. You might meet and marry a future pastor (MRS degree).
That's a great question! I have the same thoughts and situation.
I'm not sure why a woman should not go to school.... We must all learn the scriptures and teach them, as well, whether in formal settings or informal ones.
@@williambrowning4842 the Mrs degree is paramount.
Mike is my new favorite. So analytical and genuine, and always seems to ask the questions a lot of us are so curious about.
Mike, THANK YOU for being intellectually honest when reading the scripture AND holding even these scholars to the same standard.
I'm a bible college student and read from many scholarly sources. Sometimes I forget to double check what they are saying, but over and over you show how important this crucial step is of reading the scripture that is being leaned on or drawn from to make points.
☆ THANK YOU ☆
I just wanna let you know how much I appreciate these. Stuck it through to the end and I'm glad I did. ❤
I am very grateful for your careful and thorough research on this issue. I have been torn over it for some time now and I definitely want to know what Scripture says about it. Thank you for doing this! All of the videos thus far have been on point!! God bless!
Mike, just one niggle. The role of Levite was separate from that of priest and women could not serve in Levirite roles outside of the priesthood either. I know it's nit-picking, but the upside is that I think you're doing a great job on this.
Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and laboring in the word to help us, the body of Christ. Your CZcams ministry has been such a huge blessing in my life. I love your videos and especially your 20 questions videos on Friday. They have been a huge help in my personal life, they have greatly improved my ability to think and walk in the knowledge and wisdom of the word. I pray God will continue to bless you, may he continue to increase your passion for this ministry in equipping the saints. Thank you so much 😊❤️🙏🏻
I'm really enjoying this series, thanks for all the time and effort you've put into it. These topics are things I've looked into before but not been terribly concerned about, but they have more relevance to me lately as I try to discern God's purpose for my life and how best to apply the gifts I've been given.
Loving this series, it’s answering lots of questions I’ve had for a long time!
Thank you for doing it differently and actually taking the Word and letting it be the instructor!
Thank you Pastor Mike for giving us solid biblical teachings on this complicated subject. I am very thankful for your hard work and dedication, May God continue to give you wisdom and guidance to share with us. 🙏🏽
Thank you so much!!! I sincerely appreciate all of your time spent on this and I am very grateful for your thoughts as you break it down. Often times when I am researching these types of issues I get lost in the language. Thank you again and may God bless you richly!!
I think you can stop apologizing for length or thoroughness, lol. Like you said, there's plenty of summaries out there. The people that want one won't be watching a 9 part, 15 hour study. I, for one, wish there were thorough and thoughtful Bible studies on every topic that matters. Thanks for your dedication to the Truth!
Great job Mike!!! Keep it up!!! Loved all the scriptures you brought into play!!!!
Pastor Mike, just wanted to say your methodology for presenting your findings on this topic is perfect IMO: it’s thorough and thoughtful and most importantly soundly biblical. May God encourage you and bless you!
Thank you so much for your huge amount of work in that bible study. This is so helpful. And even so I cannot wait for all the videos on this topic, I really like the slow and detailed way of study it.
Great job Mike, my wife and I thank you so much for this study. It is very informative and enjoyable. One thing off topic though,; my wife noticed that you cough and rub your eyes and nose a lot and have to drink water more when Moxie is in the room with you and not so much when he is not. Has it occurred to you that... just an observation but...shall I say it? Maybe your allergies have something to do with cats.
Thanks Pastor Mike for these videos! Absolutely love them! Love the exhaustive, thoughtful approach to each section of these videos. They are a wonderful resource...
Phenomenal scholarship Pastor Mike! So thankful for your passion and dedication to the scriptures. Loving this series!!😊
Thank-you, Pastor Mike, for helping me learn.
Around 1:45:40 -- another point about women not being priests -- it was often a physically demanding job. Slaughtering and skinning animals, etc. And as far as instruction of spiritual things in families, it is too often seen that men will happily cede that role to their wives. If God didn't make it their job, most men would never think of doing it at all. And maybe that goes all the way back to Adam as well.
I was thinking the same thing about the "instruction of spiritual things".
I think the person bringing the animal did the slaughtering, skinning and parting. Lev. 1 "5 You are to slaughter the young bull before the Lord, and then Aaron’s sons the priests shall bring the blood and splash it against the sides of the altar at the entrance to the tent of meeting. 6 You are to skin the burnt offering and cut it into pieces. 7 The sons of Aaron the priest are to put fire on the altar and arrange wood on the fire."
I am enjoying this series so much pastor Mike! Thank you for all that hard work and commitment to scripture.
Thank you for sharing biblical consideration of these issues regarding women in ministry. I look forward to each part of this series to learn from your hours of work.
Thank God for his word love and wisdom that he gives to us.
Couple quick notes from the review of lessons 1 & 2: (1) The use of the word "them" in Gen 1:26-29 suggests that 'having dominion' is a corporate activity and not an individual ones; in other words, women cannot exercise dominion by themselves anymore than an individual man can exercise dominion by himself. (2) Proper Bible study is not reading the text from the point of view of the original readers, it is reading the text based upon the author's/write's intent (authorial intent). The original reader my have been closer to the cultural context, but their understanding is not inspired...the words of the text are.
When I read the Bible, I see men and women compliment each other in a synergy, not a hierarchy.
🔥🔥🔥 I’ve watched every single video of this series ! Great stuff keep it up !
Loving this Bible study! During the Royal Women section I thought of the Queen of Sheba and that the Bible seemed to talk about her in a positive way as well...she was a foreign queen, but still. Looking forward to the rest of the study, thank you for all of your hard work on this!
53:45 - I just wanted to point out that the palm tree is actually significant. Palm was in ancient times highly associated with royalty, rulership, and authority. This is the same reason why they laid Palm fronds before Jesus feet at the triumphant entry. So actually the Palm tree leads credence to Deborah's authority.
I usually find that everything can kind of be watered down into extremes, and the truth is somewhere in the middle. However I also find the truth leans towards whichever extreme is better, both are usually bad, but one stands out as being slightly more reasonable. Here I find that the complementarian extreme is still more reasonable than the egalitarian one, and biblically the egalitarian view has to stretch more than the complementarian view.
I am so glad you are doing this as I have searched this very topic on & off simply because I know of several churches with women in lead pastoral positions and I am just not sure what to think about that. I am very thankful for my Pastor a man of the Word, I respect him and trust him as my shepherd and teacher. With that said, warning-I am most likely going to say some unpopular things, I do not think I would have the same comfort with a woman pastor. Don't get me wrong, I like women and am a very confident, able and active woman that interacts with others regularly. I know myself and experience with women in leader/manager roles and honestly I prefer a man leading and managing. Women can fall victim to their own emotions that turn us petty, caddy, reactive and yes-weak. I understand men can also fall into this trap but I have not seen it as often in men as women. I believe the confusion of male and female roles over the generations has made this dynamic more prevalent in both sexes-unfortunate and most likely of the fallen nature we all have. Bottom line is that it really does not matter what we think as humans, it matters what God's plan and purpose was for HIS people. We are all made in His image and one day will receive our new heavenly bodies, changed and glorified. But until that we are in this world to live according to Gods will. Adam was given a companion and that just so happened to be a wo-man. We have God given roles and no earthly need, desire or domain should redefine that. I want to be supportive of females in charge of churches but right now I am not convinced such is of God's will. I look up to many female teachers that are in complementary positions with men leading and that is what I am most comfortable with. I look forward to continuing to watch this series and see if I am finally convinced that women are equal with men in these lead godly roles. Thank you, always for your time and sharing. May God bless you and your ministry and give you wisdom and discernment.
Thank you, Pastor Mike! I so appreciate your sober handling of the word. 🎯
Pls clatify. When Apostle Peter in 1 Peter 2:38 wrote and declared "You are a royal priesthood" did he mean any particular gender or leave out women or intend women are excluded from that royal priesthood he mentioned??
9 But you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s special possession, that you may declare the praises of him who called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 Once you were not a people, but now you are the people of God; once you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
I believe he was talking to men and women.
Really appreciate the depth of study and discussion on this subject.
Also, thanks for being the only CZcamsr not talking about Will Smith today.
Thank you so much Mike for doing this!!!! This is incredible and has so much depth and knowledge. God bless you for all that you do and for studying! Love this series and how much knowledge this gives us and how you're honest about scripture and what it says
I’m working my way through the series and it’s awesome. I really appreciate that it has depth rather than being a brief summary. The thoroughness of the research and the discussion is incredible. Thank you!
Mike, I'm enjoying the series however I think it would be better described as a series dedicated to refuting egalitarianism since you spend the bulk of your time analyzing and largely refuting egalitarian scholarship with a few antidotes about the complementarians. Thus far, I have not heard an in depth analysis of complementarian scholarship. This series would be better described as an analysis of egalitarianism, not a comprehensive analysis of both sides.
Not even. Many of us on the egalitarian side have no idea who these people are that he is quoting, and don't agree with them either.
and I do think that the egalitarians he is quoting seem to be the "extreme" ones. Not most people. I would like Mike to consider what Beth Allison Barr says in her book, along with Melissa Scott (who has a LOT of knowledge about greek/hebrew/etc - she's no dummy!) and other scholars (both male and female) vs the extreme views he is presenting. There are balanced knowledgeable egalitarians who reject extremism.
@@rachelm9350 I agree. There are definitely better sources that he has not been using.
Hmm, the take on Debra was a stretch. She had full authority of any of the other judges. She had the authority to rebuke Barak and command him to get up and obey God. I don't see anything that suggest that she was limited in any way by God.
She did not have command of the military which all other judges did. I think that is the only example he gave of her being limited and it is factual.
I enjoyed your video. Thank you for presenting scripture references. I looked them up myself. I have learned a lot. Great study! Looking forward to next week!
I must say, I am really really really enjoying this series!!! I feel like I am in the middle most of the time but sometimes lean more towards the egalitarian side. Hubs and I literally have been discussing some of the subjects in this series prior to knowing about this series.
Pastor Mike, I have a question. In the last few years, we've seen many major leaders fall to scandal, particularly sex scandals. I've been following Julie Roys and the things she's uncovered, with extensive evidence, about major leaders are appalling and shocking. With these things in mind, do you think part of the solution would be either to appoint women to positions of church leadership (appropriate ones, of course) or require their involvement in major church decisions and situations? If women are meant to be fellow image-bearers of God and a marriage is incomplete without a man and a woman, it seems to logically follow that a church led exclusively by men is unbalanced and contributes to scandal. Of course, that's not the only reason these things happen, but the whole "boys club" mentality appears to still exist in many churches, and that whole mentality is objectively wrong and harmful to both men and women. I'm sure you won't see this comment, but I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on this if you do.
Interesting observation. Following this.
The issue with people think it is a "boys club" comes due to people not knowing scripture. If Men obeyed what they are commanded, women would be well cared for and it would be a joy to submit.
All passages talking about wives submitting to their husbands are followed by a command for the husbands to love their wives "As Christ loved the church, giving Himself up for her". Hence a husband is supposed to look for the best for his family, not what is necessarily best for him. Children are also instructed to honour their parents (aka mother and father).
I hope this helps
Wow
@@jessc408 That's fine, but we live in a fallen world. We cannot rely on sinful men to run the church without being held accountable by both male and female members of the church. Without women being allowed in major decision making and advising the pastor and elders, it becomes a "boy's club." There's no accountability, particularly if these men do not allow their wives to have an opinion or speak up about anything. It becomes an echo chamber in which women's perspectives are rejected and considered weaker. Yes, I agree, if we lived in a perfect world, your comment would be a sufficient argument. But we do not. And the scandals seem to have proven that a church cannot thrive without women's perspectives being valued. As I said, if a marriage is incomplete without a woman, a church is incomplete without women's involvement in major decisions.
@@jessc408 Ideally it would be a joy to submit to a loving, godly husband. But women also have a sin nature and have specific weaknesses and ways their sin nature plays out. God's consequence to Eve, "And you will desire to control your husband, but he will rule over you," (Genesis 3:16) shows the trouble that women will have because of Eve's sin, regardless of their husbands' godliness. Places where God speaks specifically about a woman's need to submit to her husband (e.g. Esther 1, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 14, 1 Peter 3, Colossians 3) are given because this is a way in which woman's created nature (from and for the man) are complicated and twisted by her sin nature. Watch out, be wise, and choose the path of wisdom on Proverbs 14:1 for example.
You are such a blessing mike. I cannot imagine how much work this is. I do appreciate it!
I'm slowly making my way through this series, and just wanted to thank you for your thoughtful work.
Thank you very much for this series Mike! I hope the lord continues to bless your ministry 🙏🏾
A little disappointed that this verse didn't come up in the discussion about Deborah...
My people-infants are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, your guides mislead you and they have swallowed up the course of your paths.
Isaiah 3:12 ESV
I think clearly, women rulers are a sign that all is not well. I don't think Deborah was in sin at all, she really was appointed by God as a judge, but I think this verse suggests that she might've been a judgement on the clearly lacking leadership in Israel.
Edit: It shows up later in the video. Apologies.
Keep listening for a long discussion on that verse later in the video. It was written many years after Deborah’s time.
@@MikeWinger Ah! Just reached that point.
Sorry about jumping the gun, it didn't show up in the timestamps so I thought it wasn't going to be mentioned.
@@jessethomas3979 no worries! Thanks for taking the time to consider all this stuff with me
@@MikeWinger Definitely worth the time. I thought that was a clear verse, clearly I was wrong. Thank you for the correction.