The Story of the ESRB Ratings
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- čas přidán 22. 09. 2016
- In the early 90's, there was a growing concern from the public about violent entertainment. When the government began seeing footage of graphic video games, they stepped in with an ultimatum for the industry: Regulate yourselves, or we'll do it for you.
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#ESRB #GamingHistorian #NightTrap - Hry
"Many Games featured scenarios which Women are kidnapped,"
Mario: Tell me about it!
Zelda too
@@sophiaseth2769 agreed🤝
Ghosts and goblins as well
@@thundageon5962 with the game starting with hero having sex with his girl, in the graveyard ....
Yeah
Nintendo: I know we're guilty but Sega is MORE guilty. So attack them and not us.
Nintendo: Games are just toys
@robert
All game consoles are toys.
John Ralph aww come on man, its not the time or the place for that...
Poor Sega
Nintendo snitching lol. although Sega did F up by not keeping it lowkey I still got love for Sega
I assume the kid that asked his dad for Mortal Kombat was like:
"Damm dad, a simple "no" would have been enough"
Lmao, my dad watched me murder a bunch of hillbilly drug dealers and meth manufacturers in a gta v missian as Trevor and he was fine with it.
Edit: Most of the time at least.
I wonder what that kid now thinks when he sees a game rating.
@@louise6093 i think some ppl need to seperate video games and real life.
@@llSuperSnivyll probably embarrassed his dad caused so much of a stink.
Honestly this all just read to me as a Simple case of parents not actually looking at what they buy for thier kids and expecting someone else to do it for them.
Christ my dad never gave us any games, comics or films as kids without playing or looking at them first. He didn't need to look at a rating system because HE made the judgment as the Parent Responsible for HIS kids.
IKR? At least I can valiantly take no for an answer!
I’d love to know what parents expected when buying “mortal kombat” and “lethal enforcers” for their children
Also it's weird that they use Lethal Enforcers as example of video games promoting violence/crime even though the game is about a Cop stopping violence/crime.
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 yeah that is weird actually
@@hideofreakingkojima5457 I mean, cops commit crime, just legally
What does sega do to annoy you
I'm not sure what moral high ground Nintendo was aiming for. They were selling the Nintendo light gun and shooting at gang members long before Sega. The whole hearing smells like a sham for Nintendo.
I absolutely love that 25 years after Howard Lincoln swore under oath that _"Night Trap would NEVER appear on a Nintendo system"_ ..... *I just bought it on Switch* .
Lolz
Wonder if Howard like the taste of crow.
Howard was a real piece of shit here.
@@Goldenbane Nintendo was tired of Sega publicly kicking them in the nuts. They used their presence and their pretense of "Higher moral values" to kick back hard during these hearings.
@@PANZERFAUST90 nothing wring with being gay. but he is a ass
It's kinda crazy to have grown up and watched Nintendo go from squeaky clean to finally realizing (probably begrudgingly) that adults play video games too.
Senators bring in ESRB in 1994.
Parents still ignore it in 2018.
Welcome to the world...
Matts Island most parents don’t even know it exists. I sure do though and my kids can’t play any M rated game unless I’ve played it first and deemed it suitable. I let them play stuff like halo, fallout, and Mortal Kombat x.
Matts Island they pay attention to it, mine do
They just want something to ease their concience as they ignore whats going on. If your kid can't tell the difference between fiction and reality then you've failed them as educators or failed them with your dumbass genes. Why should everyone else pay the price for the ignorance of the world.
Parents? I remember buying GTA3 in a store when I was 9 or 10 i think.
I think it's because a lot of people still think video games are exclusively for children. I remember watching a video about the subject of video game violence and the person stated "When parents look at video game developers they don't see artists, they see toy makers who have gone to far."
That one kid that made all his friends not able to play mortal kombat anymore because he asked his dad if he can have it and he knew senator lieberman
RIP
from that moment, that kid only needed one chair on his birthday parties
If kids in America at that time knew who that kid was that told their dad, he would be the most hated and bullied kid of all time 😆 🤣.
Don't blame the kid, blame the dad and Lieberman
@@richardarriaga6271 C'mon now, don't leave out Tipper, aka "The Great Humorless One"!
Ironically, this is literally the only reason Night Trap is still popular/notable
I still like the camera watching concept and corny acting. It’s a bit punishing for what it’s doing, but it can be fun once you train yourself to play it first and memorize the layout. But yeah it needed more margin for error.
I still have my sega. I remember asking my mom to rent mk2. I was 11. My mom ask me what kind of game it was, I told her it was a fighting game where you can rip people's heads off. She said as long as it doesn't interfere with getting my chores done or my homework It was ok lol. She also understood it was a video game. My parents were awesome.
nice... but did your parents supervise you while playing? just curious. :/
@@treemannick2969 no but I did play in thr livingroom at that time.
I remember that my mother got me the GTA V launch edition for my PS3 when it came out. I would have been, what, 13? It was rated 17+. My mother also understood that it was a video game, and knew that I understood that. I still have it, and still occasionally play it when friends come over to our house.
My dad got me the og doom and then became obsessed with the game and hid my genesis in his room just to play it after work
But then my mum found out and started an argument and my mum won and gave me my genesis back and returned doom back to the store
@@nerymuniz6427 lol, that's really funny.
Neat. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm gonna go play Night Trap on my Nintendo Switch.
rated T!
Rated M!
Rated T for teen
that exists?
@@ognjenmaestro2234 there was a rerelease. didnt know it was on the switch, but almost certainly over PSN and steam. i imagine xbox live must have it too.
It's surprising that the video game industry was found to be more responsible for content warnings than the stores that sell them. Books don't carry content warnings and they seem to be fairly well categorized by the stores that sell them.
Technically children's books are categorized by how hard they are to read, not how inappropriate they are. imo there are some books aimed at middle schoolers that many parents would consider a little too dark or violent if they actually knew what was in them. That being said, I get the distinct impression that ratings boards are always the result of panic surrounding a new-ish form of media
I assume it was easier to go after a few publishers rather than thousands of retailers
The common theme I see is lack of parental responsibility. There are weak parents out there that need to take responsibility and be held accountable for what their children do.
The whole world is full of weak parents. Someone needs to invent the infertility ray before we fuck this planet beyond recognition.
I agree. My parents had a simple rule: I could play any game up to T until I demonstrated that I knew what was right and wrong in mature video games. Once I understood not to try things you do in video games in real life, they let me play M games. They did the same thing with TV shows.
I think it worked out well and I will have the same rule with my future children.
Say it louder!
100% agree. It’s not the job of corporations to parent your children. It’s not the job of the govt to parent your children. It’s the PARENT’S job to parent the children.
True it all stems from doing parental control and monitoring what your kids see or do as a parent that is your job.
Government: *creates esrb* Ha! That will stop them!!
Kid: hey mom, can I get gta?
Mom: sure
ESRB : censored sexual but allow violence,gore and brutal.
you know its american to be free enough to raise your kid as you think is appropriate. the rating system really is for all Karens out there.
@@danielhao5790 That is what I will never get with Americans. Kids are able to work monsters with chainsaws in Doom et al., can replay a full force Taliban insurrection in CnC: Generals, yet Janet Jacksons nip slip was a national tragedy of historic proportions!
@@stedebonnet3151 I already see u comment.
Ironically my mom got me vice city right before ABC ran a news story. She saw it and regretted it, but I was able to talk her into pre ordering San Andreas for me. Even took me to the midnight release
This video is rated E for Everyone.
Hope you enjoy it!
Crossing my fingers for the unrated cut or do I need to enter a code to unlock
Great video Norm! It's silly to think that those controversial games during the 90's sparked such outcry. Especially, when you see how graphic games have become today. Not just in violence, but in overall adult themes as well.
YES! Thank you Norm! I was so eager to hear what happened
And before uploading, it was rated RP (Rating Pending it's a Rating that game developpers put on a title to say that the contents of the game is not yet rated by ESRB this is used in trailers but you'll never see such rating on an actual game cover.)
Hey buddy. Great seeing you at a video game con and a sneak peek at this video. Great stuff.
Watching this video again after the news of Joe Lieberman’s passing today
They claim that the rating system from sega was too vague, however the ESRB literally uses a similar factor for its rating system 😂
With content descriptors
Exactly
The ESRB is a hell of a lot more descriptive though. They nearly doubled the amount of ratings (with more being added as time went on, such as E10+) and included a bullet-point list of the content that earned the game that rating. Sega's system didn't do that at all.
@@swishfish8858 most irresponsible parents don't know that
@@CaptainCat101 It isn't the ESRB's fault that the parents can't read the black bold text that says M for mature on the box or do their own research. It's the parent's responsibility to know what their child is seeing. If that's too much for them, they shouldn't have a child in the first place.
The "My children shouldn't be exposed to violent video games!" argument always confused me. They are your children. You control what comes into your household.
Even if they are exposed to violence, your job as a parent, is to program and teach your child. Help them to learn from these moments. Rather than defecting blame "My child did [this] because he saw [that]!".
Yes sadly not every mother gets that.
Parents either forgot or got tricked out of understanding what exactly their job as a parent is in the 90s. They no longer understand their task to be to take a child and turn them into an adult. They have, since then, come to believe that their job is to take a child and turn them into a larger child. It seems that they believe biology takes care of the rest.
***** I don't understand why anyone supposes it is different from books, music, movies, or anything else. Why should games be forced to be labelled in a detailed way so that parents can know at a glance exactly what is in them when none of those other things are? "They're interactive so its different" is completely specious. There is no evidence that interactivity has anything to do with anything. People performing in plays didn't become deadened to violence after acting out murders with the same actions, and against real people. They know they are engaging in fiction. And that is literally the only thing necessary to remove all danger.
You expect parents to supervise they're kids?
BLASPHEMY
I can really agree Tyler Falcon. Since there are people worried about the most moronic and idiotic things.
Parents nowadays: "Why would you sell such violent video games to children?? This game needs to be banned!"
Do you not see the giant "M" rating?
Maybe they just assumed 'Mature' means that the game is very old. /s
Katarzyna Zabinska You mean Parents today: "This is such a violent video game! Hey, honey, you wanna watch daddy blow up some police helicopters, fuck a hooker and shoot her afterward?!"
I think it might have been worse under Sega's old system which had "NOT SUITABLE FOR MINORS" right under it
8 months later. Why would you sell such misogynist video games to boys? These tropes must be banned!
Did you not miss the part where guys have been looking at breasts for tens of thousands of years? :C
Fear The Old Blood "This game has ripened"
Sen. Lieberman: "I care about our childrens' health and safety!"
Also Sen. Lieberman: *Single-handedly kills the public healthcare option*
"Only we are allowed to hurt you"
Twenty years difference and also Obamacare sucks
“Some male characters are kidnapped, but they’re never rescued by women”
Donkey Kong Country 3: Am I a joke to you?
Super Princess Peach
Those games didn't exist at the time.
*Samus has entered the chat*
This debate was before the game released
"laughs in Super Princess Peach"
whats sad is that the ESRB is far more organized and thought out than the mpaa and the tv rating system today
The MPAA and TV ratings have always been a mess since the ‘80s.
people barely watch TV now anyway
but yea movies and such are still behind
R.I.P cable TV.
Raiders of the lost ark is rated pg even though there are some violent scenes
@@TooCooFoYou There weren’t any tv ratings until the mid 90’s AFTER the ESRB was established.
I played Duck Hunt and now I'm serving a life sentence
I played mario and now I abuse turtles and take shrooms
@@sophiaseth2769 I played Minecraft and now I fell into lava with my diamonds
No matter what kind of person you are, you tried to shoot the dog.
I played Train Simulator.
And I started a horrific head on collision between two speeding Amtrak trains
I played RollerCoaster Tycoon and...... Actually I think everybody already knows what I did
When I was playing Mortal Kombat as a kid (I was 14, my parents let me play it) I used to run around freezing my friends in ice and then punch their heads off. Then the ESRB told me it was wrong and I stopped doing it. Thank you ESRB for leading me away from a life of crime.
@@anomonususer8626 lol
I cannot believe how effective that this really happened! Thank you ESRB!
Wait, if you were 14, then you were good to go. It was rated MA-13
HA!
Wasnt Mortal Kombat rated MA13 originally though? Lol
Nintendo: “Night Trap simply has no place in our society.”
2018: Releases Night Trap on the Switch 25 years later…
If Nintendo didnt cancelled their SNES CD ROM, they would have Night Trap too, but since they cancelled and fear that SEGA might overtake them, they just used this lame excuse
“People fear what they don't understand and hate what they can't conquer.”
― Andrew Smith
I learned that quote from Nas...Hate Me Now ft. Puff Daddy
People also often fear what they understand well and hate what they might conquer, because it's reasonable to do so.
So true
Well quoted
Every cod 4 campaign death screen XD
“Mom I want call of duty”
“Shut up ok fine jeez”
“Ma’am this game has gore and-“
“Shut up ok here’s 60 dollars”
“Thanks mom”
I think a lot of people cannot relate to that. Was lucky to finally get an OG Game Boy near the end of its production run.
So true
Thats a cool mom
@@AlexanderSimic I know, she is pretty cool for getting me that Game Boy. ;)
@Radical Conservative And?
I'd love to see a dedicated video to the history behind PEGI and CERO ratings in Europe and Japan.
Also, it upsets me people think it's ok to just not make more adult games.
Ratio
There isn't a story behind PEGI. They needed a rating system, they asked the countries with the most experience in rating games to make a Europe wide one (UK, Spain and France, UK were the ones mostly behind PEGI). That's it.
oh....@@medes5597
Kid: Can I get GTA mom!?
Mom: No!
Kid: " goes to friends house and plays it there..."
Its sad that parents almost never take the blame.......its always someone else, which in part screams bad parenting, control what your kids consume......you are the leader of what they consume, stop blaming entertainment. These laws and restrictions are in place to protect lazy parents that is all.
Yeah, some parents wanna force everyone to bubble wrap the world instead of teaching their own kids on how to deal with the world. If you're not willing to teach your own little rugrat, then don't fricking have them. Personal responsibility is really lacking here.
Richard Alcala it gives parents a quick and easy way to figure out what’s in a game. Being a parent is hard... I think the out come of this is great
More excuses for being a lazy parent, it takes me 5 min to look up a game on GOOGLE you know that thing that you can easily use, and find out the rating the content and a video of the game play..........it is already easy, this is just for people who are actually too lazy to sit for 5 min to look up a game their kids want. Also its a cumbersome system to annoy everyone else to appease the lazy parents.
Jp Prater exactly.....
Richard Alcala cumbersome system that prevents you from doing..... it takes 5 seconds to look at the rating which saves 4:55 minutes according to your google estimate. And it gives cover for the industry from “lazy parents” who didn’t look at the ratings.
There is simply no excuse for not looking at the ratings. It actually does the thing you say you want. I feel like I’m talking to one of my kids.
Working in retail, it is extremely frustrating to have a parent come up to me as a return for a game that they thought would be okay to play. Even though right BEFORE they can purchase it, we/I ask if it's okay to purchase, and that it's for nobody under 17. To me it's showing either the stereotype for gaming is still alive, or don't understand what is right in front of them.
Chris Shriver I wish parents did research
"ADVISORY: THIS GAME IS NOT FOR ANYONE UNDER THE AGE OF 17." - Stated directly on the box of Conker's Bad Fur Day and yet Grandma bought it for someone.
Not sure. Probably both, it seems.
How come there’s more video game controversies AFTER the rating system was established: gta, cod.
Because back in the day that type of content wasn't too spread back in they day. Mortal Kombat was seen as a terrible influence. Nowadays violence is pop culture
@@RodrigoroRex good point
20:25 Lol if as a kid my face was on a character in Mortal Combat I would have thought that it's totally awesome.
Bill was completely correct - videogames would soon become more and more widely played by older/mature audiences, which is what we're seeing now.
Kinda sad that the early 90's was plagued with all of these attacks on gaming/music (parents came after Rock music around the time as well).
The argument dioz made is so broken. Like how about slasher films and how about violence books? You have a responsibility as a parent to actually pay attention to the media you purchase for your child. These kids cant buy games for themselves when they have no job so even if its marketed towards them its the parents fault for actually buying it and than never researching or looking into the content. Also seriously bugs me that the senator looked at the ages of average sega owners and still wants to be like your marketing hardcore to kids. Really? Than why arent they the largest majority of players/owners? Because that's not the focus of our business. Now the rating thing is difficult to cut because some boxes didnt have it some did. But nintendo never had a real rating system and would have super violent games on them as well. (Terminator, Total Recall you have to kill your wife in that one) yet it's all Sega.
Like how grown men play paw patrol on Xbox one
@@9r0t0typ3 Our government was busy going after music in the late 80s and tv and video games in the 90s to do their jobs and make our lives better. And now look how fucked up everything is
@@9r0t0typ3 hell sega actually had their own rating system at the time for kids and adults yet Nintendo tried to throw them under the bus.
Ever seen a boomer post where they claim that young people today are sensitive pussies and think 'huh this says alot coming from the same people who complained about video game violence simply because they were lazy ass jacks who didnt want to parent'
Why was a five year old watching Beavis and Butthead?
they probably had a cool older brother or something.
Scratch that, why was a five year old PLAYING WITH A LIGHTER!? Now I would personally say that's bad parenting but nope, let's blame 'fictional violence' instead. Taking responsibility? What's that?
Cresco
You expect parents to be responsible for raising their own children?
This is the biggest thing with censorship and ratings. People want someone else to police their children and the content they consume.
You watch Bevis and Butthead until you hear your parents coming and quickly change the channel. So your parents think your watch Little Bear, but your actually watching something more mature.
Imagine if people minded their business and only parented their own children. Or even paid attention to what their kids watch and play! _Madness!_
The fact that the most pressing issue in the senate for a while was trying to ban Mortal Kombat is testament to how uneventful the ‘90s were
Man I wish we could go back to the 90s. Life was objectively so much better for everyone.
@@SarajevoKyoto you could literally say that for any decade, you just miss being young
Before games it was Gangsta Rap, Metal and DnD and then it was Rock n Roll and youth culture, and before that it was comic books and before that? LOL it goes on probably to the beginning of time.
The wheel was VERY controversial when it was made actually
Books.
And the Internet is next.
Before comic books was prohibition.
Og Fire bad! Fire burn little Trogdor!
"Sega's ratings system was vague..."
PG, PG-13, R
How can anyone hope to follow such a vague, busted system?
Dont forget G which implies you're safe to leave your kids alone in public at a movie theatre
movies dont really get NC17 ratings, less than there are G movies for sure
SP33DBALL Rated X was replaced with NC-17.
True that, it's since "X" usually meant porn, but adult movies that were not about porn (such as clockwork orange) didn't like the stigma. So it's essentially NC-17 = Adult, X = Porn, even though X isn't an official rating anymore.
Didn’t need a rating system. I was raised by the good ole ass whooping.
Judge: "Did you actually play Night trap?"
senator: "Uh? no"
Judge: "and you want me to change the ratings due to your poor judgement?"
Senator: "yes"
Judge: "No"
*later*
Supreme court: "yes!"
Meanwhile i'm playing Night Trap on the Nintendo Switch
Lol
Lol. Night Trap was a big deal at the time. I was a kid back then and talked my grandmother into buying me Sega CD simply for Lunar. I'll never forget trying to rent Night Trap. When she saw the cover I was doomed!
I'm 54 years old, and I'm not ashamed to admit that I still fap regularly to Night Trap on my Nintendo Switch. :)
Funny because Nintendo used it to sabotage sega
He was wrong.
I remember renting Conker's Bad Fur Day at Blockbuster and the clerk was telling my dad that it was a violent game. But my dad didn't speak English and I just told him he said something else. lol. That was the only time the game rating system almost ruined it for me.
Miguel Carrasco, Jr lmao man I tried that but the employee knew Spanish and burned me haha
4everSolidSnake haha dang that sucks!!!
AT-AT HURSTY What I find annoying about “extremely concerned parents” is that they take the esrb ratings too seriously, like not letting their 8 year old kid play an e10+. The esrb rating is more or less a tip or suggestion. If you think your 15 year old can handle a mature rated game, you should let them
Teaze agree!! The first game i played was killer instinct and i was 4.So i've been playing violent games for 19 years and i'm not crazy or want to kill
When I bought GTA Vice City and American Idiot, the clerk wanted my mom, then she insisted on listening to the entire CD first. The same day I got both of them taken away because of bad grades. What a waste of 20 dollars.
I just can't get over how hostile some of these senators are. They're not even trying to give the industry a fair shake.
Ben English Got to love politics.
devil's advocate, liebarman and the other senator could have easily pushed for government oversight but they let the industry manage itself
american politics at it's finest
Usual hearings showboating
To be fair it did need to be done, or we wouldn't have the likes of GTA V or Call of Duty these days.
The "Parental Advisory: Explicit Content" Label in the music albums was the "seal of quality" I expected in my grunge high school years. Same with the ESRB.
Yes, and i remember that Rise of the Triad was considered more violent than Doom. Something about killing humans that plead you not to... (if you don't, they steal a weapon and shoot you from behind). It also had the same excellent multiplayer that later Duke3d also got.
I was a teen during this time, and I HATED this whole moral panic. The whole "Contract With America" era had a lot of people acting silly; this business over video games made me aware of Joe Lieberman for the first time; I despised him ever since. As I got older, I found much more reasons for that feeling beyond video games. My friends and I used to make fun of Sega's rating system back then, and even used to call Night Trap "Night Crap". But Nintendo really looked like some chumps here, really.
Nintendo, after all that blustering, caved, because Mortal Kombat II was released in "uncensored" format (though, games like Primal Rage ended up being censored versus the arcade game on which it was based), which made them look even more ridiculous. But hey, at least they could compete with Sega this time around and rake in the profits.
Though ultimately this development allowed (console) video games to evolve outside of the confines of the "family friendly" constraints imposed on it by Nintendo's success in the 1980s (partly to protect the business from an Atari-like implosion), I still have a lot of dislike for the fact it went all the way to the U.S. government. Rare is it that Congress turns out something beneficial to the public on purpose following such a panic-driven response; that the industry ended up to make better product as a result is purely coincidental.
Great post, about with I only disagree with that ESRB made games better. There have been barely any AO games, for instance.
how old are you now?
Mortal Combat on Genesis not only had blood. It also had a much more consistent framerate. The SNES port often hovevered between 20 and 30 while the Geneis one was a stable 30.
To "despise" a random perosn you never met is a bit obnoxious
When Al Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his running mate in 2000, well I knew at that point what ticket I wasn't voting for.
People blame young people voting for Nader in 2000 spoiling the election, but Joe Lieberman moral panic over video games lost the election.
There's a Sony TV during the senate hearing. Sony silently plotting to take both Sega and Nintendo down
FavianTube
At this point they were working with Sega, iirc. There was even a proposal for Sony and Sega to make the a console together. This was after Nintendo double crossed Sony. CEO of Sega shot it down say that Sony didn't know anything about making hardware and later (after the PlayStation became the most prominent brand name in gaming) that it was one of the worst blunders in business.
Your profile pic made me laugh and wake my parents. Thanks.
FavianTube 😂😂omg
Nintendo were a bunch of pricks in the 80s and 90s, I'm glad Sony marginalized them for decades now
"Is" but not "was." 80s Howard Lincoln would give Sony of San Mateo PTSD
I wish parents and congress would get this upset about lootboxes in modern games training kids to become gambling addicts later in life.
Ikr
Apparently Gambling Addiction wasn't as big Issue as Violent Action or Sexual innuendo's
The ESRB is headed by bunch of bilks with the only interest of money.
@Joe Ç I don't know. Lootboxes really are gambling, even if they don't meet very strict definitions of gambling. Gambling is already illegal for children, you can not walk into a casino as a minor but you can gamble with lootboxes.
But I might be a bit biased, because I hate lootboxes. I don't think it will turn children into gambling addicts, but children will lose money on them. They will probably learn their lesson at some point but it's still not great.
That would require Government to do its job, though.
Growing up an avid fan of the artform of video games, I always knew "of" the mob of loud parents who were angry about violence in them. But I never gave them much thought, I figured they were just alarmists who knew on some level that their concerns were nebulous. But this video actually evoked some compassion in me for those first-concerned people. While we all know now the jury is out: violence in North America consistently decreased while violence in video games grew more prevalent, people back then didn't have any way of knowing if these mediums actually changed behavior. They didn't have the benefit of hindsight or vigorous research on the subject. So while I still don't see any credibility with people aligned in that same position today (since again, the jury is out) I have a bit of a soft spot for those initially concerned.
It's easy to look back in hindsight and laugh at the actions towards the latest new thing, but we should remember that new things change society sometimes.
Oh my goodness... the voice acting for Senator Fritz Hollings (21:35) is the best thing I’ve heard in a while. 😂
popular fighting games
E10+: Brawlhalla
T: Tekken 7
M: Mortal Kombat
sorry about E but i can't find E rated fighting games
As a former retail drone, I wish more people understood why games are rated what they are. Too often do I see parents of pre-teen children with M-rated games, and they don't seem to care even after what that means is explained to them.
The video game industry can regulate itself. They can't regulate bad parenting.
That's up to the parent
my son can play what ever he wants
I was 13 when GTA 2 came out and I love that game
Just because they buy the game, doesn't mean they don't understand it.
If I had a 12 year old, I wouldn't care if he/she played something like Halo. Not all M games are the same.
+Jack Pipsam Exactly. Very well said.
Jack Pipsam My experience has suggested otherwise, but that may well be regional differences.
There may be some people who buy while understanding, but most of my experience? They neither understand nor would care if they did.
+Jack Pipsam That's very true. I would let my kids play something like Resident Evil but not games like GTA which includes depictions of sex, murder, drugs and other acts that a child shouldn't even be looking at.
“Night Trap will never appear on a Nintendo system!”
*cough cough* Night Trap 25th Anniversary For The *Nintendo* Switch *cough cough*
Nick C's Gaming Delight r/wooosh
@@GamingDelight"Night trap will never appear on a Nintendo system."
"never appear on a Nintendo system."
"never appear"
"never"
@@GamingDelight so does the other person's point.
@@GamingDelight They did. The point was Night trap appeared on a Nintendo system when Howard Lincoln said it wouldn't.
@@GamingDelight It doesn't matter if Lincoln left Nintendo. He said Night Trap would NEVER come to a Nintendo console, and it did. Had he said, "As long as I am working with Nintendo, Night Trap will never appear on a Nintendo Console" then yeah it would make sense. But that did not happen so the other person has a point.
The frustating thing on Sega's end wasn't just that Nintendo violently threw them under the bus as much as possible, but their rating system isn't far off from what TV and Movies ended up adapting. The only difference is they put "MA-13" rather than "PG-13"
Yeah that point confused me. The guy that kept badgering Sega about the use of the word "mature." Like, shut-up and stop wasting time debating semantics, there are bigger fish to fry.
@@pufflepoint the way he went about making the point too by saying "Are you kidding me??" with the fake outraged politician voice. Dude was just trying to impress his voters and supporters by looking no nonsense. Instead, he looks like a fuckin tool
I remember this whole thing. Lethal Enforcers and Mortal Kombat really took a beating by those advocates. Ultimately all it did was drive up sales and make something popular with kids into a phenomenon. So.....
And now Night Trap is available on Ps4 and soon to be Nintendo Switch and only rated T for Teen. All this controversy and now it's ok for younger audiences for some reason
Jimmy Larson The ESRB and FCC have gotten more tolerant over time. Its really visible when you compare horror movies from the 60’s to modern horror.
Night Trap is much tamer than the standard nowadays and the perspectives change with time. Earthbound used to be K-A (the '90s equivalent to E for Everybody) but for the WiiU rerelease, the rating was changed to T.
Maybe I'm an idiot, and if so I will quickly shut up...but in a weird way, wouldn't that game do the exact opposite of encouraging violence towards women? The point of the game is to defend the woman. Again maybe I'm dumb as rocks but this has been my knee jerk reaction when I watched this and learned about Night Trap.
Times have greatly changed, Night Trap is virtually nothing these days compared to so many other things.
Yep...
Why the frick do people dislike this? It's really well produced and is completely unbiased history.
maybe they're trying to dislike the senate
Nintendo fanoboys butthurt
He's just telling it like it is.No bias to anybody.
Video is too short(I didn't dislike). :3
That's different, I am a libertarian, but I didn't dislike the video because of it telling a governments history. That's like if I go to a bar and I don't like them because they serve Budweiser, but they also serve hundreds of other beverages that I thoroughly enjoy.
The quality of both your scripts and editing are top notch! The effort really shows as I have been binging this channel!!!
Man what is the soft jazzy music that you have around 4:40. Sounds so relaxing. I always enjoy your high quality work. Keep it man! Love your work.
in 1992 I was in my second year in high school. and I remember the controversy around Mortal Kombat
Same, though late elementary school in my case lol.
1992 was my last year of junior high (9th grade, so equivalent to a US high school freshman) in my case, and to be honest, I don't remember it being nearly as much of an issue in Canada. I'm sure there was coverage of it, but not to the same degree as in the States. In any event, I agree with Norman, self-policing ended up being a good thing, and a far better outcome than government regulation.
I was 7 ... and I remember it as well. I remember having to go to my friend's house to play MK on his SNES because my parents wouldn't allow me to play violent video games on my Genesis.
i wasnt evem born lol
Joe Lieberman is a pussy, and no, I won't take it back.
LOL Nintendo 1 year later releasing Mortal Kombat 2 with full blood.
Then 3 years later Goldeneye with the graphic grunt sounds. lol
didn't they change presidents or something like that? i really can't keep up with it but... it was hurting sales without blood so of course they going to allow it
+unkown a no, Nintendo's then president Hiroshi Yamauchi stayed with them until the GBA and GameCube were released.
After Yamauchi retired, They had Satoru Iwata as president until he died a little over a year ago.
JsRetroVideoGames May he finally rest.
Going back to this video, I'm wondering if there will eventually be a documentary episode on Nintendo's history with the M rating after the ESRB's formation? From their work with Rare in the N64 era (Conker, Perfect Dark), the GameCube era (Eternal Darkness, Geist), absence of it on the first party front in the Wii era, to their purchase of Bayonetta 2 and 3 from SEGA in the Wii U/Switch era?
For all my retrogamer hiphip fans out there:
0:43 Ice Cube - It Was A Good Day
0:45 A Tribe Called Quest - Can I kick it
0:47 NWA - Straight Outta Compton
0:50 Public Enemy - Fight The Power
0:56 Dr. Dre and Ed Lover acting crazy on Yo! MTV Raps
0:58 Ren and Stimpy (they're more hiphop than all of the above)
If you don't know, now you know.
Don't be like politicians. Learn from this, and when there is a doubt in your mind about what a child is exposed to in entertainment, just remember one simple word:
Context.
Children learn fact from fiction when they read a book, or watch a movie, or tell a story, and video games are no different. This is the main thing we should learn when we see an ESRB label.
Politicians are greedy lying bastards. They'll frame anything that opposes them in a negative light to get their way.
It's crazy to think that, if little Jimmy never asked to get mortal kombat, the esrb would never exist
Thanks Jimmy
I think the ESRB was inevitable whether Jimmy asked for MK or not.
That's a bit like saying "If it wasn't for Columbus, nobody would ever discover America"
Someone would, sooner or later.
@Ash Kitt Yes, i know Leif Eriksson was there 500 years before Columbus, and that people who originally walked over the landbridge from russia, down Alaska and settled the entire continent had been there since the last ice age.
I just used Columbus as an example since he was arguably the most famous one.
Point being, certain things in history, or perhaps even most things in history, are inevitable.
If not Columbus, then someone else would have done it.
If not Einstein, someone else would have come up with the theory of relativity.
If not Daimler-Benz, someone else would have invented the car by now.
And so on and so on.
Someone would surely have come up with a rating system for video games by now, regardless of the existence of Mortal Kombat and kids wanting to buy it.
Fucking Jimmy we should bully him
Howard Lincoln - "Night Trap has never and will never appear on a Nintendo system." 30 years later, Night Trap is available on Nintendo Switch.
17:30 Many Years later... Nintendo Release Sega's 'Night Trap' on Switch
So far our youth has been corrupted by: Books (e.g. "The Catcher in the Rye"), Movies (Hays Code), Music (Rock & Roll, Hip hop), Comics ("Seduction of the Innocent"), Board Games (D&D), VHS ("Video Nasties"), Cartoons (Simpsons, Beavis and Butt-Head), Video Games (Mortal Kombat, Doom, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball), and of course, at all times, illegal drugs.
Yet most of these moral guardiens never consider the impacts of poverty, parental neglect, over prescribed drugs, alcholic parents, divorce, underfunded schools, bullying, self-esteem parenting, helicopter parenting, unhealthy eating habits, reality TV, or constant morals panics caused by the 24h news cycle.
AMEN!
Nice to know that overprotective parents have always had their priorities in order.
Also Socrates. He got the death sentence for corrupting the Athenian youth.
You know...its actually quite possible for a youth to be corrupted by ANY of the things you mention IF their parents are the type of peoiple (now VERY common) that let the TV, media and school raise their kids and impart their (instead of the parents) values....while I will agree that poor parents, divorce , too much TV and poor diet add to the bad behavior and attitudes of many kids (and also adults) the idea that "poverty" or underfunded schools cause such issues is WRONG- poverty and crime do not always follow the same graph, plenty of ecent hardworking poor people never grew up to be scumbags, while plenty of middle class kids did....the REAL issue is that both parents working leaves kids floating in a moral vacuum.
I wish people were more careful with what they put in anything. I'd perfer censorship over a rating system, but not many people like that....
God. If Howard Lincoln had issued that statement to Sega in this day and age, Twitter would have his head served on a platter
#Dickmove
@Peruano ML Reddit is also pretty SJW.
@Peruano ML Twitter is pretty fucking toxic. It's getting right up there with 4chan. At least even people with huge egos get dunked hard on 4chan since everyone loves to shit on assholes on that site. Twitter is terrible because you have high ground moralists who advocate for canceling people who don't deserve it
@Gameplay Videos Naw, I would say Twitter is pretty balanced when it comes to it's political spectrums.
Twitter is full of Far Rights and Far Lefts forcing their political views onto people and getting into heated tangiums over it to the point where it becomes insufferable to use the platform, honestly, it's hard to make the claim Twitter is a "SJW Echo chamber" when there's people harassing and belittling those for admitting to being Transgender on Twitter to the point where it's almost impossible to use the plaform without coming out mentally drained.
@@DeadHandtheSurvivor your ignorance is astonishing. Twitter IS the left.
Just love your videos. Your approach is so balanced and calm. I know you've heard this before but you are very good at this.
What Howard Lincoln probably didn't know is that in Japan there was a licenced Nintendo game with domestic violence in it, Takeshi's Challenge.
Imagine that came up..
Quit your job that you embezzle money from, beat your wife, get drunk at the bar and belt out some karaoke, take out a loan and abandon your family. Sounds kid friendly to me.
To be fair, the game was marketed for a salary man to get a laugh from, and conceived by a guy who hated the video game industry as a whole.
Watching the debate slowly builds up a frustration that makes you want to yell.
Know what you mean. Felt bad for Bill White.
***** Poor guy was basically ahead of his time, at least when compared to the rest of the people on the council. Now a days, I think most people agree with him. Gamers are a recognizable community of young and old and I'm pretty sure they would not let this bad mouthing slide as easily as it did back then.
I instinctively went "...oooh" when Bill White made that slip of the tongue saying "Sega" when he meant to say "Nintendo".
Why did this thread turn into anime. I don't care if you think I'm a weeb, I can't stop you from thinking that and don't really give a fuck, but you're pathetic to bring it up when the only thing mentioning it is my profile picture. Talk about what I'm speaking of, because you calling me a weeb is similar to butting into a conversation to say someone's shirt is gross or something. Would you do that in public? No, you socially awkward degenerate.
Addressing, TheGameRage1, I know about the SJW and hipsters, I honestly thought about them while writing my comment. However, the gaming community today fights those fuckers, unlike back then. Gamers will stand against the bullshit in the Gaming community. The biggest example of it was GamerGate, even though SJW made it out to be a hate group of misogynists, when they were really fighting against shitty journalist, specifically in gaming.
It's cute watching people get angry when others point out that their behavior and toys can have a negative influence and that you don't live in a social vacuum.
*kid wants an M for mature game*
Kid: I WANT IT NOW
Mom: Fine
*buys game*
Mom: Oh my god why is this so violent? Why didn't anyone tell me? Why was this marketed to my kid? I blame you!
Yeah a lot of parents sue game companies for being too violent for their child when... there is a BIG BLACK *BOLD* letter at the bottom left corner of every game box art. Needless to say, those parents lose the case
@@treemannick2969 50 years after it was introduced, parents still don't understand how the MPAA rating system works.
@Tony Soprano that one thing I've always wonder why is it so hard for parents to see ratings on video games like even my moms sees them and some m rated games she won't let me have, I think that explains all the terrible news stories about video games that are cringeworthy
@Tony Soprano plot twist: you'll be a parent in the future too.
All the Karens are the reason for the controversy.
I thought it was funny and ironic as my parents were very upset about violence in videogames and were actively involved in trying to ban videogame violence, yet every night they argued and fought at home. It was fun watching them fight when I was young. It's like watching a more 3D version of Mortal Kombat :)
Boomers being boomers
I guess only argument i can get is they didnt want their generation to turn into "Fight Club 1999 movie".
But it is scapegoating as a whole.
“Video games and TV are becoming unsuitable for children”
Meanwhile at the Catholic Church...
Or Islam.
People can be hypocrites, but we need to remember the individual perspectives and the real religious perspective towards video games and TV. Nowadays, religion isn’t doing as good as it was years ago. People are trying to change that though.
@@luisalbertoarenasaraya4579 Islam
All this was about was bad parenting. They didn't want to admit that they hadn't paid attention to what their kids were doing. Know what your kids are watching, playing and pay attention to their interests. It was easier then than now, sure, but it can still be done.
James White
No, some of it was legitimate. Imagine you are a parent and you buy a game that appears to be appropriate for your child. You take it home and open it and watch the child play the game to find out that it is riddled with violence. You now are stuck with a game that cost you upward of a 100$ and your child can't play it. You'd be pretty mad since there was no easy way of finding out such information. Remember this was before readily available and easily navigated internet. Having a label on the box saying roughly what age group a game is appropriate for isn't a bad thing.
There was always a back of the box, and games that lead the march for ratings clearly mentioned the violence there.
But as mentioned in the video, the ratings only started to manifest *after* the backlash, as was the example given with Night Trap being sold without any ratings anyone could purchase in Walmart and Toys R Us.
James White My parents were blinded by the media wave too. I remember when I was a kid, my mom took my SNES copy of Primal Rage, when there was a news story about violent games, and the name came up. She didn't know anything about it when I got the game. I told her later that it was dinosaurs fighting. She did a 180 and gave me the game back. I guess she felt I wouldn't go out and start spitting fire, biting or roaring at my classmates...
Lol, people reference Night Trap, but have any of you ever even played it? 95% of the game is comic mischief and slapstick at best when you activate the traps. I've watched daytime television in the 90's that had more violence/higher production value. It really does come down to lazy parenting.
“Sega and Nintendo will never get along”
Sonic and Mario Olympic Games
Another thing on a long list of things that my older brother told me would never happen!!!!😊😂😊😂🤣
🤣 Oooooh!!! That's Funny Crap!!!
Things like infinity wars will never be a movie, Maggie couldn't have shot mr. Burns, they will never make another terminator or Rambo movie,
Also, Sonic appearing in Smash for a 3rd consecutive time
And Super Smash Bros. Ultimate
Every time you see “concerned parent” you know that parent is just bored with their humdrum life and feels like making a big stink for literally zero reason
6:53
I love that the image they used to warn parents was from the music tour. You’d think they’d use something less funny. Who looked at that and said “A turtle? With a guitar? That can only mean one thing: violent inclinations!”
Mrs. Droz, I don't know how I would feel about someone playing 3 hours of Night Trap, since their's only 1 AND A HALF HOURS OF REAL VIDEO!!!!!!. Excellent stuff as always, Norm. The idea of government involvement in media is something I studied a lot in college, but only briefly did we look at video games. The idea of what is 'obscene' and needs banned is fascinating to me.
They clearly loved it enough to play it twice. I'd be scared.
The 8-Bit Duke she's the original Sarkezian.
the game is notoriously difficult. You have to catch every "vampire" at the correct moment or else you lose.
Yeah and this whole, "The Female being kidnapped." apparently she never played any of the Metroid games did she?
He was right too most games do feature woman being kidnapped. But then again all media did that around that time period too. @Muticere
Excellent video bubson !
omg its dunkey game man the youtuber!
what are you doing here dunkey
videogamedunkey damn didn’t expect any dunkeys to be in the comments
what the fuck ae you doing outside your channel? BACK IN YOUR ROOM!
this aint the real dunkey man stop playin
Mate, your videos are awesome!! I like your way to tell stories!
These videos are so awesome! Its like that show I grew up on PBS but for gaming! Awesome video yet again!
I doubt any of us would have even HEARD of Night Trap if watchdog groups hadn't raised a big fuss over how "horrible it was." It was horrible alright, but not in the way they wanted it banned for... and wanting it banned was pretty much guaranteeing it would live forever in infamy.
Ash Kitt It's sort of in the realm of "so bad it's good". It's terrible, but it's a funny kind of terrible
So, in the end, Sega was ahead of its time by using a rating system.
Pretty much yeah.
They were ahead in a lot of things.
Cube8 ironically being ahead wasn’t enough
No they had a cheap excuse that failed miserably
but an incredibly bad one
Este video Documental es genial es justo lo que necesitaba, y tiene sustitulos en varios idiomas para mayor difusión de la información.
Thanks Game historian.
All You are the Best. ♥️
I am a huge gamer and I grew up in the 90s and 80s I felt that videogames were my life. Now I am 38 and have two degrees because of what I did after I skipped doing work to play games. I relax and play games but It is more of collection and keep building for the future.
17:44 Cut to today and Toys R Us is gone and Night Trap can now be bought and played on the Nintendo Switch.
I thought Toys 'R Us is long gone.
Well if you dosen't have kids account in nintendo switch
@@chonkokong513 what? Frame your words into a proper sentence.
@@venom160 that you need to show your credential to buy it.
Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards is a great idea, I still feel some of the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself.
Some people really don't care though - I remember waiting in a large queue in my local game store (unsubtley named GAME) with Pokémon OmegaRuby in hand, whilst I notice a young kid wandering around a bit with GTAV, with his mum. Some other kids on another day were talking with their dad, & he was offering them the latest COD at the time.
I dunno about you guys but I'm pretty sure the idea is to NOT get caught trying mature games, not let the parents in on it. =S
"Whilst creating the ESRB & other game rating boards, I still feel the fault would probably be on the parents for not checking the contents itself."
Where would a parent be checking the contents of a game in the early 90s?
*****
Asking the store clerks (assuming it's a game store & the staff would have some knowledge on the subject) or even trying it out themselves if they are planning to get it for their kids later on as gifts.
every time i go to game im swamped by young kids asking me to buy them cod and GTA while i wait in the queue to buy a 3ds game xD
egh,I remember my older brother had asked me to get gta vice city stories w/ my dad, and when we went to get it he definitely gave me that look of "you shouldn't be playing this"
I felt so uneasy the whole time,though at least we got the game
The ESRB absolves the game/company of any fault once it was instituted. Now it's entirely on the parent if they buy a game they find inappropriate for their child since they can't claim anymore that there "was no way I could've known" because the big "M" on the case tells them what the game contains.
It doesn't stop kids from playing games that aren't appropriate for them, it lays the blame on the parent rather than the creator of the game.
Don't trust anyone who thinks virtual violence is somehow worse/leads to actual violence
I've been playing video games for 40 years and, to my surprise, I am not a criminal.
Ironic that I can't say the same thing about politicians.
Yeah, that rating system is doing a whole lot these days. Kids definitely aren't kicking and screaming to get an M Rated game every year.
DaFro3713
That's the fault of the shitty parents we have in this country.
DaFro3713
The issue was more about information. Is it really a bad thing to have a label that tells you any content that people might not want for their children on the box?
TV was their kid's baby sitter, then video games became it, now it's video games/cell phones, lool. Shitty parents just don't want to look after their own kids.
SEGA shot themselves in the foot by calling 13 year olds "mature".
Yeah, now parents that actually DO care, can easily see what's in the box.
...Sadly, few do and the ones that were "outraged" on TV back then probably just used it as an excuse for their shitty parenting. Play a game for 5 minutes before leaving your kids to do it, or do you just let your kid download whatever app they want to on their phone?
...Oh. You do. Because the figurative person I'm adressing's a shitty parent. Oh well!
"How would you like to have a teenage daughter go out on a date with a boy who just played 3 hours of Night Trap?"
Well, I'd be glad. He has a sense of humor and it shows that he wants to protect women (which is the goal of the game) rather than objectify them
Maria Thompson while I don’t think Night Trap would turn him into a rapist obviously, the content is sexist and silly. It isn’t some kind of feminist treatise any more than it is a rape simulator. It’s just a bad game from the fmv era
Jbramson12 Yep, it’s really a kitschy B movie as a game more than anything.
Kill me if this offends you but: SHES A FEMINEST!!!!!!!!1!1@1×$^&
Joe Ç probably, but it honestly couldn’t be much worse
Well Night Trap is a parody on vampire movies
I remember being an elementary school in the early '90s with all the controversy about violence and video games and mortal Kombat I actually did a school report on violence in video games and since there was no internet or computers in most people's homes at the time I actually cut mortal Kombat a screenshots and logos out of a game informer magazine and made a diorama thing. And my whole case was stating that it's not bad and it doesn't affect kids because they know it's just a game and it's just pretend.
How cool would it be if you still had it? Or maybe you do, which would be super cool
Nintendo was fucking savage in the 90's!
Yeah the Yamauchi era was fucked up.
Lol
Sam Muir After Sega came crawling on their hands and knees begging Nintendo to let them make games for them.
deezy81 lol ok there
Crystal the Glaceon You are now rated M
The whole "OMG THINK OF THE CHILDREN" line gets reeeeeeeeeeal old.
Ya, pre-Code comics were so much better than this garbage DC, Marvel, etc. stuff nowadays anyway. Too them decades to make decent stuff again like Walking Dead and The Boys.
6:54
I like the article that says Children's TV breeds crime, but it shows a live action campy turtle outfit playing a prop guitar. The only crime I see is against fashion.
You forgot to include how Nintendo of America cajoled Leiberman into instigating the hearings in an attempt to have the Federal Trade Comission ban Sega from selling consoles in the U.S.
In retrospective Nintendo of America was (still is?) too heavy in censorship, many Japanese games couldn't make it because of them. There is a very interesting rant/article about the port of Maniac Mansion and the several things they had to change/remove to comply. Sega of America exploited this flaw in their marketing, focusing more in the teenagers.
Angry senators: ''Video games are bad, MMMkay?''
i get it now
mkay
mk
mortal kombat
actually now that i think about it that may not of been intentional lol
All i can think of now is the mmmkay in that one dumb voice XD
@@bluespartan076 Mr mackey's voice from south park.
that's probably baaaad
Well Howard Lincoln is definitely eating crow, with Night Trap now on Nintendo Switch. I wonder what he has to say about it ...
... though I guess Night Trap being on the Nintendo Switch is a sign that the ESRB is working for the most part. Perhaps a short followup?
In fairness, he is no longer at the position at nintendo nor are we at a point where night trap is considered obscene.
Aya Shameimaru I’m sure he’s eating his crow in his retirement yacht somewhere in the Pacific Northwest. He’s very distressed about Night Trap on Switch.
In his defense, it is purely academic that Night Trap is on the Switch. If it weren’t for the fact that we are discussing the ESRB, why would anyone care that a lousy 30 year old game is being offered as a super cheap streaming option?
Are we just going to ignore the fact that Holy Christians at Nintendo went back on their vow to not carry adult products ever!?!
Lincoln was just doing his job. Making Nintendo blameless in all this. He was an attorney who was paid to defend his client. He could care less about video games. He was just a legal tool for The Big N.
I love how Howard Lincoln’s response to Tom Kalinske was essentially just him saying “cry about it”. Man was ahead of his time.
This was one of the best videos I have watched ever
yeah but it's bullshit how no one wants to make Rated A games because retailers refuse to sell them.
I do feel like ao games have the potential to dwell in far deeper scenarios then m rated games, but that potential is mostly wasted on stupid hentai games because some busy body soccer mom doesn't want to actually look at the game they're buying their children and then having the nerve to complain afterwards
Then again all A rated games so far have been crappy games that just go out of their way to be offensive so no loss
i agree
Retailers don't matter. Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo YEARS AGO publicly declared that they would never license an AO rated game or even an unrated game. Can't afford the $30k to get your title rated by the ESRB? Screw you then. Oh, and since making an unlicensed game boot on a console requires violating the DMCA, it would be a federal felony to make an AO rated or unrated game which could be used on any of the consoles going back to the late 1990s. (I think you can get away with it technically because they won't come after you on the Dreamcast and stuff now, but its still technically very illegal.)
We used to be able to say 'but the PC will save us, all hail Steam!' but Steam has been embracing censorship the past few years too. They haven't outright banned games not rated by the ESRB, but they require all the hentai games that feature the terribly dangerous anatomy of anime girls (which are so very realistic) to be censored. Outside of Steam the PC scene is where it's at though for any kind of games that want to do things that are actually artful or mature... you're just going to die penniless doing it.
waiting for the day can buy ao games in stores. not that i would but be nice if it happened sometime. some m games could be better if it could be ao too maybe