Do Smash Players HATE Platform Fighters ?
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- čas přidán 27. 06. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
1:13 Neutral Was Surprised
4:04 Do Smash Players HATE Platform Fighters?
8:50 What's the Reason?
12:08 General Audiences LOVE Platform Fighters ACTUALLY
15:43 The 2 Things to Focus On
24:10 How We Can BREAK FREE
25:55 Dark Souls 1 Is TRASH?
26:27 TitanFall Doesn't Have These Problems
28:16 Cartoon Network Could've Been Good
29:23 The Negatives Stick in Plat Fighters
30:50 MEME
31:37 We Have Work To Do
33:15 Headphone Warning
34:30 Brawlhala Should Be Studied
37:04 Don't Advertise to SMASH PLAYERS
41:50 What Have We Learned?
43:21 Sentinels Inc Stuff
44:49 COWABUNGER GETS EVERYTHING
Thanks @NeutralOfficial for Being such a pal and having the conversation. I think it went really well.
What do we Need for Plat Fighters to Flourish?
Audiences are different.
#fightinggames
#gaming
#platformfighter
#rivalsofaether
#multiversus
#nasb2
#nickallstarbrawl - Hry
![[SSBU] The Fastest Move In Smash](/img/n.gif)
Out of all of the co-labs ive been apart of to do well its the one where i recorded it while 20 hours in a alnighter I can't believe it
the point neutral brings up about casuals wanting crazy single player despite it being appealing just to play versus matches is one of the things ive been arguing since rivals 1. you have games like party animals or gang beats or now duelists of eden that are *just* the pvp game but the presentation and quality of mechanics are what got people in the door. remember, slap city popped off before it had its story mode as well. this isnt to discount single player as being irrelevant, but i think the notion that single player content alone is why these games are failing isnt exactly true, especially when say, traditional fighters like guilty gear strive can do so with veeeeeeeeeeeeery lacking single player.
I do think IP plays a big part of it. Most of the big platform fighters (Smash, multiversus, Brawlhala and even NASB) rely on big brands to market their games. Meanwhile, indie developers need to sell people on their OCs, and nowdays its way harder to make people care about new franchises than pe-established franchises. Even with something like Rivals, while i love the characters movests. I struggle to care that much about the actual characters' personalities.
It's about how fun they are to play, the skin does not matter. Are you telling me you judge things by only visuals not gameplay ???!!
@@gauvacado1091gameplay is certainly important, but a large portion of getting people to play a new game is visuals. Guilty Gear Strive could’ve looked like Xrd and it would’ve still sold as much as Xrd, but I’m willing to bet that more people got brought into Guilty Gear because the game looked visually appealing.
Rivals wouldn't even be as popular as it is without the character mods that are all over youtube
@@Zer0_TrueMoo I still think Xrd looks better than Strive but I do agree that they would need to change up the presentation to draw more eyeballs from game to game.
It isn't an accident that SF games change up their UI between updates (SFV vs later releases) and even change up the stages rather than only adding when we look further back to SF3.
If a game looks like a premium product, people will follow even if it is missing stuff. You don't want people to think that the game has been out for years and there is no reason to care now.
@@izmizzle tru but it brought alot of probloms in the community such as workshop players thinking that they are better then base cast players not only that but they also dont touch base cast and never learn the mechanics
My favorite thing to do regarding platform fighters is introducing my friends to them as a cool casual game that I love. It's a really simple way to get people to like games.
much as the tech in Rushdown is cool you can easily just start up custom an move some options around an now your spamming endless special moves with 60 stocks
They need to make Puss in Boots work again in CI fr (I still don't have a copy of sentinels inc btw LBO WAS gonna get me a copy but he's busy) also I have NO goddamn rizz you guys are crazy lmao. Idk what people see in me besides the fact I cover every platfighter I can, sometimes all in one video series. With Sentinels specifically I'm pretty sure I was the first person to talk about it on youtube period. Thanks for the shoutout tho I loved the video.
Thanks for taking a joke man. Its appreciated
Now answer the question about Dan and his hypothetical island.
I’d like to think _why_ there’s this sort of stigma within the genre is that journos (amongst others) are too quick call them “the smash killer” or “a new challenger to smash’s throne” which sets up a unreasonable level of expectation so to speak
Yeah. But if im honest.... Hboxs editor did the most damage
Interesting video! Two of my favorite content creators together is awesome to see. I do want to touch on the last segment. I've been following Cowabunger's content for 2 years now, and I can totally see why he "gets everything." There are three big reasons behind it, in my opinion.
Firstly, he covers everything meticulously. Unlike many Platfighter CZcamsrs who only briefly touch on certain games, Cowabunger dives deep into updates and dedicated videos for games like Combo Devils and Cross Impact. This not only boosts his PR but also helps smaller developers gain traction and revenue, a win-win for everyone involved. As an indie dev myself, I've seen firsthand the impact Cowabunger's coverage can have on a game's success.
Secondly, he's just a genuinely nice guy. His understanding of the industry, I imagine from working on SP, CI, and Fraymakers Mods, allows him to approach games with empathy and focus on their positive aspects. This positivity is refreshing in a space where criticism can often overshadow appreciation.
In my opinion, Cowabunger deserves all the success he's achieved and more. He's not just a content creator.
Just my two cents, but as a close friend, I genuinely believe he deserves every bit of recognition he gets.
Me and neutral are just teasing with the last bit. Im actually with ya.
Cowabunger IS a breath of fresh air.
But genuinely thanks for explaining why. Cause. It honwstly makes sense.
@@SoftwareNeosofc. Love the video goat!!
It's an interesting topic, there's definitely a level of brand loyalty, "how dare they compete against my immaculate Nintendo!?".
Still many of these indies, as you said, focus on marketing to competitive players, who will NOT drop the game they area already playing for something that tries to replace it.
There is one platform fighter that hosted a $10,000 dollar invitational last year; Flash Party. For the hundredth time please take a look at it LMAO I will guide you through it if you wish to try it out.
IM SORRY MAN.... I PLANNED SO MUCH STUFF. WE GOTTA PLAN IT. TALK TO ME ON DISCORD. Well plan it out.
as a Melee player: *FUCK* nintendo and:
idc if it's spongebob vs jimmy neutron, if the game is good, I'm gonna play it.
multiversus is trash
@@tuPHwUn when combo devils comes out. Play that. Im on that as soon as its here
@@SoftwareNeos TBH I suspect that game _could_ be good. I have no real evidence yet tho
Flash party looks kinda ugly ngl. But I agree
Honestly from this discussion a revaluation ive had with the platform fighter genre is that they tend to forget to give their characters appeal outside of being similar to a smash character. You see it in Rivals of Aether where some characters like Clairen and Zetterburn while having cool designs and some neat mechanical ideas they were designed mainly to appeal to a demographic who plays Marth and Wolf respectively. Half of Zetter’s moveset alone is taken from the brawl wolf and it would be fine normally because they can make it up by making him an interesting character outside of that fact but his animations in game show no personality or personal style to them aside from sticking close to wolf as much as possible. People tend to compare these games to smash because of this trend of sticking close to adapting smash brothers characters to their own game, it’s unfortunate because with other fighting games the rosters of those games are so varied with colorful characters with vibrant personalities that show within their moveset that keep people playing and yet with platform fighters they tend to struggle to create memorable characters that can be marketed and pushed to the same degree as their other fighting game contemporaries.
Personally, I think the most simple answer is the right one. Yes, smash players tend to not like other non-smash plat fighters. That much is evident by the player base. There is no comparing the 32 million smash sales to the 1 - 2 mil aether sales. But why is that?
It’s simple. People connect with smash characters. They’re games that have been long since established. They come from legacies. Games like rivals try to emulate that legacy by making other games set in the same universe, but they’ll never come close. That’s why smash is so big, while other polished plat fighters aren’t. Remember smash flash? That game was wildly popular. Why? Because of representation.
I will admit that NASB is an odd case, cause they have the rep but they’re severely lacking in sales comparatively. I think here it comes down to polish and maybe the lack of legacy as a series itself. But it’s still a valid case study against my hypothesis
Not to say that NASB/NASB2 definitely overperformed your estimate but we don't actually have any sales figures - the main thing is estimates on Steam and player counts.
I suspect it must have done quite well even if it is odd that we haven't got a tweet to say NASB1 sold a million copies or even collectively NASB1 and 2 did so.
I also think we may be missing the difference in scale between these games. Smash has many of the most popular IP including Pokemon being the most valuable one in every game - all games are sold for full price with DLC for some games. NASB has a range of popular IP with only Spongebob being eternal and the games go for a cheaper but have DLC. Rivals has only been sold digitally and has potentially infinite IP through the workshop, but it is sold for a much cheaper price.
The value of a sale and ability of draw people is quite different between them all.
I haven't finished the video yet but one thing I will say is the big reason for this rift has everything to do with the fact Smash is a Nintendo fighting game. Smash elitism is an extension of the same extreme Nintendo purism you see for other games. The issue is you cannot win over someone who is dead set on "Nintendo good" mind you the opposite is also true to an extent I am guilty of being extra harsh on Nintendo games lately because the Switch was disappointing outside of Smash Ultimate for me. The solution is you have to find your style and your people. Multiversus I hated, but it does this quite well for instance
Thats... pretty true. Im excited for multiversus... but that game gives me a headache
That same energy is seen regarding creature catching/taming games. I remember seeing Temtem ads for the Switch and just reading constant messages along the lines of "Why would I play the knock-off Pokemon when I have the real Pokemon already." This was also going on while the Scarlet and Violet performance issues were being spread around as well. So for sure I think that plays a pretty large part in the issue regarding other platform fighters as well.
I could deadass make a whole essay on this topic
As someone who absolutely loves Smash and did attempt to go a bit more into the competitive scene, from my perspective, Smash has set a sort of standard that is a little impossible to reach. And I don’t say that to say that Smash is inherently better than other platform fighters, but for many Smash players, it’s kinda impossible to make a game that has the same sort of impact as Smash on them.
As someone else said, the characters are always kinda a guaranteed pull for most people cause so many icons are in it and it’s owned by one of biggest game companies in the world. Even beyond competitive, from a casual perspective, I can see why many people would gravitate towards Smash who has several characters from their childhood over the similar game who just has a random ass lion throwing fire around.
I think another big thing is that no game really has the history of Smash as a competitive game. Like Melee alone has essentially spawned its own diehard community and went from the basement-dweller tournaments, to MLG, to EVO and now it’s off of EVO and the whole like dispute with Nintendo going on (and I’m probably missing a shit ton of vital history in that too). Smash really has gone through a lot in terms of its competitive scene. So other games can come in and play the same and feel the same and be really good competitively, but I think in many people’s eyes, those games don’t have the same impact as Smash if that makes sense.
And what you guys said about the marketing is very, very true lmao. Smash also had the pleasure of the directs and the high-quality trailers and it’s not like you couldn’t know the new Smash news cause it’d be all over social media and CZcams. Street Fighter and Tekken often have the same effect of just character reveals being everywhere. Meanwhile, most platform fighters don’t really get that luxury. Like the Kragg trailer for Rivals 2 is hype as fuck for me personally and I don’t even like Kragg lmao. They set up the hype ass intro with Kragg’s theme and he looked awesome and he had cool new stuff like his rock pull now also acting like a command grab etc. While that’s all great, it doesn’t mean much to most people who know nothing about Rivals, and that reveal didn’t blow up like a Smash trailer would. I know that’s an unfair comparison, but it’s still a “problem” for plat fighters in terms of notability.
I’m mainly talking about the people who don’t really branch out from Smash and not the sort of “oh this game is just another Smash, I don’t like it.” I think Smash’s development within its community is something that’s difficult to top. I think if Smash was less personal to some people, it would definitely be easier to let go and it would be easier for people to not compare other platform fighters to Smash.
I love Rivals and I can’t wait for Rivals 2. I had quite a bit of fun playing Slap City with friends. However, idk if those games will ever be truly separated from Smash.
But that’s just how I see it, wtf do I know lmao.
Your on the money man. Idk if we can seperate either. But... imma keep trying i guess
@@SoftwareNeos Yeah, I think you could really try to nail it and hope it works. I think giving it time is really important. The bigger plat fighters like NASB and Rivals are kinda coming around to their new games and Multiverses isn’t even officially out yet. None of them are established franchises like Smash is. I think that’s also another issue. We don’t call Blazblue or Uni “Guilty Gear clones” nor do we call Tekken or Soul Calibur “Virtua Fighter clones” cause at this point, all the games are developed franchises with their own unique characters that have communities that are comprised of people who probably played at least one game from all of the different series.
Smash is so hard to top in the way of characters people love and are invested in. Maximilian said it best when it came to why SSBU is one of the greatest fighting games ever made. “Smash Ultimate is an impossible game. It should not exist.” In spite of that, I do hope that people can still put aside its grandeur and legacy to be like “You know, this game is a pretty cool platform fighter” (“this game” as in non-Smash plat fighters lmao).
Yall Should Sub to Official Nuetral. Hes a cool guy
youtube.com/@NeutralOfficial?si=Hq_HMQkR7mDGIEau
Best point made in this video was how plat fighter devs dont market enough to casual audiences or streamers and try to rope in the smash community every time
Fraymakers couldve done that. Instead of platform fighters... go to groups that like the CHARACTERS.
Get a guy that likes Octodad games, slap city, welltaro. Get them to talk about the references and shit.
Sure they don't got content. But at least people are willing to wait rather than not care if you eventually do
Rivals2 and NASB2 are the _only_ platform fighters we can confirm are good.
Dan Fornace(Rivals) has been making Smash games since the gameboy.
Ludosity(NASB) has devs that worked on P+ and they made Slap City.
everything else is a toss up, and probably Sony Play Station All-Stars tier tbh
on the FLIPside, the only platform fighter we can confirm to be HOPELESS:
...is *Multiversus* NetherRealm Studios has YET to make a good game, _and_ they have the biggest budget lol
in the semi-related world of classic 2D Fighters:
J.Wong even said so recently in Diaphone's: "I Asked 100 Tournament Players To Make a Fighting Game Tier List"
end of the video J.Wong said: the _one_ and only thing we can ALL agree on, is that NRS games are always the worst.
I promise anyone, any of you. this will be no different (if not worse) int he world of platform fighters
@@tuPHwUn If you're still around and just curious to pick your brain, what companies would you like to take a crack at making a Platform fighter if you had a magic wand? Mine would be Arc System Works to take a crack at it.
@@SionReaver There isn't a major company that is consistently successful with the genre, but there are several dev teams who have made multiple, quality, platform fighters.
Look at 2XKO (fka Project L) they have people like Clockwork and Marlinpie developing the game/ designing characters. It's not just the Riot brand that is responsible for the success that will be 2XKO, it's the actual people working on the game.
I would say, again, that AetherStudios and Ludosity are the most qualified to make a platform fighter just based on their resume. The experience they have with the genre is _waaaay_ more important than the infinite budget that Multiversus has
@@SionReaver not to mention NetherRealm Studios is the worst company to be developing any fighting game, lol.
Moron Kombat 1 died in 5 months, and they actually have experience with that genre
what credentials do they have over Sony's PlayStation All-Stars? actual question
tbh, nintendo has a losing record being that maybe 2/5 of their platform fighters are good lol
50:00 #FornaceLiedPeopleCried
I definitely wanna get into a tournament when multiversus drops again Yet hopefully i get to play with you on the 28th of may ❤
BET
Does anyone have a link to the game Elysium Project that they show in the beginning? I tried to look for it, and I only found a WoW fan game.
That's something I hadn't thought about but you make good points
Ok I know for a fact that nyxtheshield is active in the fraymakers workshop scene and even made a trading mode assist way before the training mode came out. Like WAY before. They don’t just want to play melee. They are active in other scenes and if they were shitting on nasb then they had a problem with that game specifically and not just every platfighter that isn’t smash.
Damn, too late in the evening for me to watch this now, but I'll be back
Seeing Nogla and Terroriser play a platform fighter would be awesome.
It would be awesome
Did I not comment on this?
I didn't comment on this. lol
But man, what a fun podcast!
You guys work off each other real well.
Ours wasnt too shabby. I cant wait to work on it
@@SoftwareNeos Hell yeah!
i wish there's like a list of all the games showcased in this vid so i could at least check out some of them
czcams.com/video/0scghxYOOKw/video.htmlsi=351zWUvY2_VpY4qm
So here is a link to the vid with a lot of them. Just go to the description of it and youll see.
Now heres the ones you can play now:
Fraymakers
Stardust Valkyries
Nasb 2
MULTIVERSUS
Smack Studio
Slap City
Rushdown Revolt
All on steam.
Heres stuff not out yet but have trailers:
Panzen
Combo Breakers
Sentinels Inc
Hope this helps
The Cowabunger exposed video AND and the Dark Souls 1 actually sucks videos are gonna be such bangers.
(I’m not actually expecting those videos, I just think it’d be funny.)
The WHAT
Plat fighter Will it Kill already exists. It's called Board the Platforms and is run by Wisely
31:03 i litterally reference it
Dang, that's what I get for listening like a podcast instead of watching the edits lmao. That's the exact moment I was responding to
@@Twisted_Logicsorry. Its kinda a podcast... kinda not. Likr you can only listen if you want. But if you dont you get more meat on the bone
I need that Nogla and H20delirious platifghter video
After multiversus. I hope they can do Rivals 2
Just to add my two cents from what was discussed. It just needs two things. Good enough game and marketing. Once you get the harder former out, platform fighter devs need to treat Smash like the cranky picky grandpa. As in sure, it be nice to have them along but they aren't the focus. Too many are fumbling with wider audiences which are untapped.
Cowabunger can't keep getting away with it. (hi cowabunger)
Hi!
Does Mini Fighter (M Fighter) counts as a Plat Fighter?
It does not feel like a regular fighter, that's for sure
You got a trailer for that game?
@@SoftwareNeosMMOHuts has a good video on it if you search for him and Mini Fighter.
My first impression is that it counts more as a platform fighter in combat than anything else for the arena and that I shouldn't be surprised that it existed given how DNF Duel's inspiration is a belt scrolling beat em up MMO.
@@SoftwareNeos the game is like 20 years old, idk if theres still a trailer online, it was an online MMO korean 2D fighting game, the fighting style was kinda unique, you had a set of skill that you combine to do combos, even tho the most popular stage was a flat one, there were still stages with plataforms and stuff, you win by getting your rival HP to 0
Good work!
Thanks my guy. Its appreciated
Cowabunger rant killed me 😭
It caught me off guard again when i had to edit it.
Im glad hes a good sport about it.
Way too funny
What it really comes down to is that people by and large don't play Smash because they love Platform Fighters. They play Smash because it is a crossover featuring some of the most recognizable faces in gaming.
The only reason people even gave a low budget, Game Mill published, bargain bin licensed game like NASB1 any attention is because "it's like Smash Bros for Nickelodeon."
I don't think it's that Smash fans don't like other Plat Fighters. It's the opposite. Smash is the entire reason that anyone gives other Plat Fighters what little attention they get.
Indie fighting games routinely fail, not just indie Plat Fighters.
The first part is fine. We know that. People play vause ridley is grabbing marth. I get it.
The problem comes with OTHER critiques or giving the opinions on why they dont play them. Its not enough that "it has nintendo characters i like"
Now its "the graphics are bad" "theres no story mode" "its a clone"
Im sorry. But NOWADAYS. They dont got an excuse. Theres plenty that do that and still they dont try.
I think this is now in their court whete they just gotta be honest. They dont like platform fighters. Same as fortnite people just dont like most fps stuff.
Sure. Indie fighters can "fail" but as least its not as much scrutiny as every other platfprm fighter that exists. Hell.... most dont really fail. So. Honestly theres no excuse.
No, they just value Nintendo games and IP more than the gameplay of platform fighters. (Posted this before watching so I'll edit to add more commentary when I'm done)
Edit: I feel the marketing aspect of it does play into what I said. If you're marketing to people who are just going to compare your game to what they're already playing (let alone in a competitive setting) is a fools errand. But I think it also extends to the way developers talk about their games. You can tell that they have a lot of reverence for smash as a series, but even when they're talking about the stuff thats unique about their game there's always that undercurrent of "heres how our game is different from smash bros".
Idk. Maybe its my negative side talking. But this is a damed if you do Damed if you dont scenario that i can only blame fans for. Theres tons of platform fighters that dont try to compare to smash.
And If you dont talk about it... the fans sure will everytime. Hbox saying these moves look like smash moves. You got NASB 2 single player mode? Subspace 2 apparantly.
At that point its on fans... CAUSE WHY ARE YOU COMPARING? If i had a shooter game... well save for judgement... but i feel like its not on devs at that point.
Mortal kombat and street fighter HAVE SOME RELATIONS. and sometimes only have like 1 thing different to set them
But then if you market yourself as a game engine... you still get no people.
I just dont get it.
Brawlhalla players seem to really dislike other platform fighters - they always seem to hate on Smash and Multiversus
I think BH deserves more credit for pushing platform fighters in a new direction. Their design space is notably different from the rest, and they've done an amazing job at cultivating a scene.
man, i can't believe nyxtheshield still infamous on every platfghter ever. Can't wait for where is he gonna doomposting next
it also has a lot to do with non smash platform fighters tending to be really bad and unpolished
not all of them are, but it goes for the vast majority
as an ultimate player I would like a good alternative platform fighter with an online mode thats not a fucking joke and no built in lag that makes the game slightly unresponsive at a fundamental level and no lame+op characters like steve or sonic, but there's not really anything resembling ultimate that comes even close in terms of quality
the good non platform fighters resemble melee more
The only unpolished game i can see are NASB 1. Every other platform fighter can have that quality you want.
Multiversus? No. It has quality. Fraymakers has quality. Its just low in content. Stardust valkyrie is becoming more polished in weeks. I just cant see what you mean.
I also dont know what you mean by "the good non platform fighters resemble melee more"
Maybe going in to depth on that more would help me
Steve and sonic aren't overpowered, a vast majority of people don't even play against Steve enough on the regular to be able to justifiably complain about him, and while he has a lot of cheese and a high skill ceiling, not only do competitive results and representation (to my knowledge) not support that claim, like it did with Bayonetta, but it likely isn't anything a low/mid level competitive or casual player has to worry about. And Steve certainly isn't lame imo, although its a matter of opinion.
Sonic? You can dislike sonic, I don't like him either, but he isn't overpowered either, he's just lame.
@@pointillism252 neither of them are sm4sh bayonetta or brawl mk levels of OP ofc
but both are among the very best if not the top two characters in the game then top 4 at least, that's pretty OP by definition imo, perhaps you disagree, I'm not that interested in arguing, I'ma just voice some of my thoughts on the matter
some characters have to be top tiers and be OP and thats alright, but its not good for a competitive scene when the top characters are characters that people really don't like watching and players don't like fighting on account of them being lame
sonic not being OP is a weird take, character has it all pretty much, superb damage output, best edgeguarding in the game, great at killing, can get kills at all percentages, great disadvantage and recovery, superb mobility and spin dash which is absolutely bonkers in itself
steve evidently carries players seeing as lots of steve mains started doing way better all of a sudden after picking him up, we had that effect with bayo in sm4sh too, everyone knows it, its obvious as fuck
steve is also scary because he's so unoptimized and already clearly the best char in the game, thankfully he's so weird that not many people want to play him, but that might yet change, seems to have very few counters, with only Cloud clearly beating him
still, he should kinda lose or at least go even with a few more characters, people really aren't that good at fighting steve, I totally agree about that, despite being very strong he's still not that common, especially not at top levels, consequently top players still aren't able to do basic counterplay stuff such as dealing with anvil optimally (which can be like parrying it and then jumping to avoid the grounded hitbox and thereby also getting into a position to pressure or even punish steve for using anvil, not sure were he will end up in the end
characters with poor mobility tend to do worse the longer a meta goes on whereas the opposite is true for those with good mobility which are simply more flexible
I can't say I have any firm grasp on where Steve will end up with time, he's an overtuned character who is still far from optimized, but people also suck at fighting him.. so I dunno
neither character bother me directly, but they definitely hurt the scene, having a negative impact on viewer retention and thus revenue as well as being a pain in the ass to do deal with for other top players, especially those who play characters which get invalidated hard by them
diddy vs steve looks horrible for tweek for instance, still tweek is not good at the matchup and could be counterpicking but isn't doing so
@@axelnilsson2031 Okay I have some more thoughts now, not for sonic, I don't think he's top 4 but whatever.
As for Steve, first I really don't like the notion of "Steve players are carried by their character", because it diminishes their accomplishments AND adds toxicity without actually saying much about the character, characters that are easier to start playing and have lower skill floors are fine existing. But since Steve is "weird", and there aren't more Steve mains, it obviously can't be as low as you're saying. It reminds me of when people said hungry box was carried by puff.
Steve is definitely over-tuned, but I think while Steve has definitely driven SOME people away from the scene, most damage its sustained over the past few years has been between people in the scene, and Nintendo the corporation. And too many people have been using Steve's "Dominance" as an excuse to drag the players playing him.
That being said, both Steve tech and counterplay has a long way to go, but I feel way too many people are jumping the gun.
@@pointillism252 I think you make good points.
cowabunger doesn't even like banban 1 or 2
Bros out here google dorking to find more platform fighters lol...
Its either i be a nerd.... or yall dont get content.
Other way around (for some reason)
Yes
My thoughts on Neutrals unsolicited opinions on Dark Souls 1 and (vocal) minorities aside...
While I think sponsoring say Larry (who mainly does competitive commentary) or Leffen (who is Leffen) may not be the best pick, Nick All Stars 1 is the proof in the pudding... While hundreds of us got wrapped in the discourse about money in competitive, lacking presentation and antagonising Nintendo, potentially millions (not all players are buyers) were really pleased to have Sponge Bob fight Sandy Cheeks in a pretty cheap game with remotely decent design with the inclusion of the ball mode and eventual voices patch being icing on the cake.
By extension, I don't know for certain but suspect as a big license that NASB2 is doing fine with tons of people who either can't afford online and can't afford to share their experiences through a stream. Almost all of my time expressing my interest in games is captured in text ranging from comments to genre breakdowns on Giant Bomb to full guides on GameFAQs (none for platform fighters yet).
On reasons to care about these games, there is generally SINGLE PLAYER INCENTIVES (arcade, trials, board the platforms, story mode, lore/trophies etc), then there is generally NON COMPETITIVE INCENTIVES (drunk vs mode, tekken ball, Subspace Emissary, watching CPU vs CPU, Amiibo) then there are generally COMPETITIVE INCENTIVES (tournaments whether local or online with rulesets - any play which follows those general rules counts too).
We can have reasons for people to mess around with these games which aren't remotely competitive and don't need to be Smash Run 2... One great example in a recent plat fighter is Slap Ball which could easily be its own game and I've managed to get a friend to try the game at least briefly just for that while on public transport - I do have a video recording but need to edit.
On marketing, we had great examples long before the current era (I'd loosely say this is the 2010s) with Naruto Ultimate Ninja and Jump Superstars though both were working with a massive license with their own audience and it helps slightly that they played less like Smash than almost every other in this video.
Lastly, we need to have a good list (I'm the main guy on the Giant Bomb page for Platform Fighting games - but it isn't necessarily the best) of these games. I heard of most of the ones you mentioned and even played some Umihara Kawase Bazooka, but am I supposed to get more alts to keep up with these Discords with barely any discussion... Or do I need dirt on all of the devs?
These are good points. and.... wait....
YOU ARE THE MAIN GUY ON GIANT BOMB? I had no idea.
Also ill try to discuss more plat fighters. Its just being a youtuber now. I was supposed to do a video about new plat fighters. But i get so much other material
@@SoftwareNeosYou're pretty good, too. The editing for this podcast was really helpful and engaging besides the conversation itself.
I did write most of the Giant Bomb Platform Fighters page (besides some others) but as it is a collaborative site like Wikipedia, it needed to be a good enough platform for me to feel like putting my time there.
The site has gotten less flexible and more clunky over the years but I'll see if I can give it more time this weekend or maybe start a guide on a platform fighter elsewhere. If the site gets bad enough, we may need our own community wiki. Mizuumi and Dustloop are very good, excellent even but not exactly what I have in mind. The latter only allows ArcSys games anyway.
Back to the broader topic, I see a lot of interest for the older games (primarily Smash, GuileWinQuote on Outfoxies aside) but there is so much in between in addition to new games that can easily slip through the gaps.
@@thelastgogetathat would be very appreciated man. Thanks
Maybe i should do the same. I have tons of platform fighters with no coverage. After another 2 podcasts. Well see
0:00 yes, of couse we do, no nuance allowed
NO BRAIN IN THIS SPACE. ONLY FRANTIC EMOTIONS
Right so here's a thing, nobody can own a genre
Platform fighters are a genre
People can like what they like, but the second you get toxic about what others do..
You are now causing toxicity with half baked arguments as you said and you are not allowing
A genre is not a copy unless it is over half of the same move sets which are the same as the other game
What this comes down to is very simple
People aren't willing to say as a public group that you are an asshole if you can't let others enjoy there og cake and the other
You still have the cake the og smash cake
Yet people are unwilling to actually judge that yes that's straight up toxic to make such a negative opinion based on not even fully trying something
Meaning, if you have the opinion at ANY POINT, IF ANYONE HAS THE OPINION TO JUDGE SOMETHING WITHOUT HAVING FAIRLY COMPARED IF IT IS AN ACTUAL CLONE
Then yes
R/youarethrasshole.
I'm talking to EVERYONE WHO IS HERE !
shhh shut up we all know its a fact that every horror game is just resident evil an every hack an slash is just god of war and every fps is just cod
what are you stupid :p
30 mins in. . . It just seems wild to me that the guy is basically blaming players for not liking every 2 bit platform fighter that comes out. I think it's a really lazy excuse tbh. Fighting Games have multiple AAA quality games that have been being produced for years, same with souls games. Meanwhile, all the platform fighter genre has with that level of quality and polish is really just Super Smash Bros. I'm not even a fan boy. I hadn't played one in years until Ultimate came out. It's crazy to me that he's glossing over the obvious difference in quality between the 2 genres. Still to this day one of the most popular alternative platform fighters looks like a flash game. It plays well but it still looks like a friggen flash game. That's not just players being stubborn. That's a clear example of an overall lack of quality. Even the weakest fighting games like DNF Duel have much more polish than some of games brought up here.
Thats not it. We even said that wanting quality in graphics is fine by itself. That we just dont like saying its just dogmwater especially since a lot of them already have quality in both graphics and gameplay..
Idk what you mean by which one looks like a flash game. Could be rivals 2, multiverses or NASB 2... but the only one that prolly isnt up to par is NASB 2. Maybe. But saying most of them look bad is just... WHY? They dont.
Also... ITS SMASH ULTIMATE. in polish not even OTHER FIGHTING GAMES can compare sometimes. In artsyle you can have an argument. But almost noone gets this polish.
So to say "i want polish like smash ultimate." well i think you set yourself up for failure. Like expecting every manga to be as in depth as one piece. ITS JUST NOT GONNA HAPPEN.
Especially since a lot of fighting games that arent modern (made like 5 years ago) werent as good looking even for the time. MK and Street Fighter 5 can vouch for that.
I dont think we glossed them over. I just dont see it as a legitimate argument with everything we brought up.
Im sorry
I can’t lie no matter if smash had the die hard fans it had NASB1 and Stardust valkyries are still objectively shit games. Stardust is simply the graphics which no one can probably like and NASB1 due to the exclusion of voice acting in a game which needed it for immersion and the boring ass movesets (also infinites didn’t help the casual audience) both games look completely unfinished and for NASB1 deserve the criticism. Stardust Valkyries has 0 marketing which can be seen in how many CZcams vids r on the game (basically just u and Cowabunger) leading to it obviously flopping but also the graphics alone would turn off so many people not just cause it isn’t ultimate standards(rivals exist and its pixel art) but the general just unflattering aesthetic. Unless the games are at least Multiversus standard of actual expressions in the character moveset the plat fighter genre will never grow as no one is able to attach to a character like they can in MVS and Smash. This expression in character can be seen way back in SF2 as it is necessary for people to actually see the character as a character and not a moveset. Although games like Combo devils and rivals 2 look good,, without this no casual will go back to play the game as they is no character to attach to just moves which they won’t really care to learn abt the intricacies of the moveset.
Also why tf is there so many games with zero marketing like wtf is Madwatch 2 or Panzen and why is there like 40 characters in it and look like a shitty flash game💀
Fuck. I know that person irl hah
Hes a cool guy