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You mentioned you did not have a capture device capable of capturing what this device is able to output. Are you able to give suggestions on what capture device could capture what this device outputs?
Thanks for posting this. I know this isn't a game related question but have you tested this with VCR tapes? I ask because I'm debating on getting a high-end scaler because I have a ton of VHS tapes to rip and I need a really good scaler due to some interlacing issues I have with many of the tapes. The price isn't a problem for me if this produces the best possible quality, however, I'm not interested in throwing money away if there are equally good options. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Ah, yes. $2000 OLED? Check $1000 Sound System? Check $750 Scaler? Check $500 Mister setup? Check Finally, I can play Super Mario Bros. the way god intended.
$750 is absurd, looks like I'll be sticking with a CRT lmao was stoked at first but its 2023, the economy isn't in a situation where folks can justify buying it.
Odds are that in a few years they'll release an improved version and this might become more affordable, but this is clearly not aimed at regular gamers, but people who make of gaming, especially retro gaming, their actual job.
Or any economy lol if you factor in the problems with old consoles and prices of them, the prices of retro games, the prices for the controllers etc it's a completely moronic buy
I think if you're watching a video of a comparison, you may or may not notice a difference depending on the resolution of the monitor you're looking on. I think if you wanted to see a true difference it have to have one video playing on a 4K TV and another video playing on a 1080p TV
6:10 - He did the Fable comparison, where it went from 1080p to 4k from frame to frame. You can see a clear difference in sharpness/clarity. Naturally, I would also recommend manually setting this video's quality to 4K. Even if you're on a 1440p screen, you will see the quality difference.
If you do that, you will see that the improvements are nonexistence... Just use your arrow keys to move the timeline. There is no reason to waste money on this.
Exactly, This whole product just seems delusional. Like when people buy gold plated HDMI cables for "better image quality" lol $750 for a upscaler, like wtf? Who is this even for?
@@NickJayj I can't imagine that price is in anyway justified for the product? 99.9% people do not really care beyond native output vs a nice clean HD output. I got a HDMI output for my PS2 the other day for 9 dollars - it looks great, really cleared up the image. That's all I ask for.
@@Awesomeness4627 Even with a 4K screen and 2160p selected CZcams's compression is going to make comparisons hard. @Nickjayj the gold plating on HDMI cables can actually make a difference and is in fact part of the spec for 4K and 8K cables which are far more susceptible to interference (there's an older LTT video where they used a cable tester and explained some of the science). Gold plated TOSLink on the other hand is just stupid (it's an optical connection) but the gold plated ones are often cheaper than the non-plated ones. I will say that the vast majority of people don't actually care about resolution that much. Those that say they don't care often care more than they realize while those that say they care often can't tell the difference between 720 and 4K. CZcams actually did some experiments where they switched peoples videos to lower resolutions to see how many people would switch it back, I was apparently one of the relative few that was bothered by it but even I can't always tell the difference. Especially in something like a talking head video, it seems to be far more noticeable, at least to me, with videos that have more movement or action to them so a video game at different resolutions would probably be more noticeable (at least to me, I'm also slightly autistic so I might perceive things a bit differently). Personally, I can't justify the cost (and to be fair to MVG he did make a big deal about the cost). I just don't play enough retro consoles, I'm more likely to play a remake or use emulation (even in cases where it's inferior) because it's easier. The one system I'd really like to use this on is the Switch but there's a good chance the Switch 2 or whatever it gets called will be backwards compatible and have a native upscaler (probably NVidia DLSS based). I could also, probably, find a Switch emulator (that hasn't been disappeared due to questionable business practices giving Nintendo an actual leg to stand on) to play Switch games at higher resolutions and with other benefits like better load times and mods (to be clear I do legally own all of my Switch games as well as a Nintendo Switch console/handheld and feel I'm entitled to play them on superior hardware if I so choose).
I remember thinking $350-400 for the Framemeister years ago was the peak of high end devices (barring extron-like equipment). This is crazy, just not something I'd ever see myself needing. Mike Chi is really making everything at every level.
Not a great deal whatsoever too much money. Only the few hardcore in this retro community will buy it. I'm guessing the next Retrotink that he builds will be almost $2,000? Well the Chinese will build some cheaper clone and will sale for a lot cheaper.
Definitely not meant for my amateur ass 😅 I dust off an old PS2 every now and again, hook it up with a random aftermarket component cable I got years ago and I'm reasonably happy with the results. To the few people who've been waiting for this and can afford it, go nuts!
At the price, it's too much of a luxury for me. But it's good to see the way things are going. If it supports 120hz output, you'd think having HDMI 2.1 ports for 4K120 would be a no brainer. Added cost - yes, but this is a very high end expensive product.
I thought that at first, but realized the only way that really matters is if you have a 4K 120 Hz TV without its own BFI. I don't need the Tink 4K's BFI since my TV can do it for me.
@@raafmaat well for starters the bandwidth for 4k120 is great deal bigger than 1440p at 120. I’m guessing that would have alone probably required a more powerful chipset to be able to do the scaling and have all the features it currently has for that.
Thank you, I thought I was going crazy. I can suggest taking a couple of screenshots and flipping between them to actually be able to see the difference, the 1080p image looks a little bit "smeary" or out of focus compared to the 4k one and the blades of grass/shadows appear to be slightly more detailed. But I think this product definitely isn't for me lol, I kept rewinding the video and could not spot the difference.
Honestly, the input resolution is so low there's realistically not that much info to really upscale from. Scaling it to 1080P is enough, most modern TV's will be intelligent enough to integer scale that to 4k (so every 1 pixel becomes 4 pixels of the same colour). The output is going to be artifacty & shimmery regardless because the input resolution is low (garbage in = garbage out).
Input lag measurements > 2.5ms - (Just by using Tink4K + FrameLock) 8.3ms - (Tink4K's Black frame insertion, which cuts down 50% of OLED motion blur) 9-10ms - (From your OLED or QD-OLED TV's game mode) Grand total is around 20-21ms of latency. Or around 12ms without BFI...Although, BFI + the HDR10 brightness boost trick is crucial imo in order to get good motion clarity. Without it, you're stick with 100% motion blur, which is terrible imo. BFI gets you cleaner plasma-tier motion clarity. a Samsung S90D or S90C QD-OLED + RetroTInk4K is the best combination at this point.
$750 is expensive to most including myself, however coming from an AV background where you'd be specifying things like Kramer to do input switching and scaling this is actually not a bad price from a professional standpoint. To boot, this is probably better than any industrial scaler I've seen.
That's the thing .. I'm not sure what he's using under the hood, but last time I checked, actual HDMI transceivers (not just digital video transceivers that _happen_ to be compatible with HDMI) are not something you can just buy for a few bucks each and drop on a PCB to send to OSH Park. That's the main reason 4K was off the table for so long. Everyone making devices with "HDMI" ports was doing it on the sly, often generating the bitstream manually, since getting properly licensed to use real HDMI components would've been way, WAY out of league. I'm not sure if this is just god-tier hardware hacking, or if the guy actually got blessed by the AV Illuminati, but either way... it wouldn't have been easy, and it _sure_ wouldn't have been cheap. Trust me. The $750 you would have to pay for this is nothing compared to what this had to have cost to develop. You want 4K? Alright. Here's what it costs. At least until you get to LG/Samsung/Sony scale.
I don't know much about this topic myself but I remember someone asked the creator, Mike Chi, why doesn't this support 4k at 120hz or something like that. Apparently if it did, this product would've been thousands of dollars in price just because the chips are so expensive. It seemed like to do anything close to this good, the price has to be closer to 1000 dollars just because the hardware inside is so expensive. It's still way too expensive for me though, but I will stick to using CRTs or I will buy a cheaper scaler eventually. Retrotink's other products are pretty reasonable in price (and OSSC also) so there's still options for everyone.
I'd expect that the FPGA used is among the most expensive parts involved. People will sometimes overlook that the Cyclone-V in the DE10nano is subsidized and would normally cost more. Plus getting a nice injection molded case is not cheap either, as good quality replacement cases (including transparent ones from MacEffects, etc) are also fairly expensive.
I think what a lot of people are not talking about here when it comes to the price is the sheer level of hardware and software complexity at play here. I'll say that this is out of my league, I'll never be able to afford one. However, what this scaler does is show that it CAN be done. Now other folks are going to have to up their game. I honestly love that. Mike Chi shows just what you can do when you refuse to compromise and make cuts. A product like that has to exist to elevate the entire market.
The fact that Mike can get the price below a 1000 bucks is pretty impressive. That being said, it's definitely meant for hobbyists and enthusiasts. I already have my Tink5X and for 300 bucks, it should be good enough for most retro gamers that don't own a framemeister but they want something better. But dang, the separate VGA input and HDMI In can be pretty tempting 😅
Assuming you live in a developed nation I doubt you’d never be able to afford one literally, even if you only saved 2 dollars a month you’d be able to pay for it in only 30 years so unless you’re over 50 that should be within your lifetime statistically. If you save 50 cents a day it would take 4 years
Complexity of HW and SW is not a justification for an asking price to the end costumer. That is the manufacturer’s problem. Customers are not responsible for how a problem is solved. They will pay for a solution to a problem , however. If the solution is a net positive, then the customer will commit. Otherwise they will look to other options.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it...I can't see any significant difference with this device, at least from the videos I've seen. I'm glad! It'll save me a lot of money.
I remember watching a podcast where Mike Chi was a guest around when the 5x came out and he was talking about the complexity and hardware necessary to get a 4K scaler. I'm surprised we got here so fast but not surprised at the price. This is quite the technical achievement, very impressive stuff
TBH, I didn't see it happening at all. This is remarkable -- not just technically, but in terms of getting this kind of niche device through the entire process must have been quite the gauntlet. I would imagine there aren't many people on this planet that could've done that, and far fewer who _would_ have.
@malice5121 Who again is too smoothbrain on here to not understand it, huh? All I see are people that are saying that they are not gonna blow 800 bucks on it. Maybe you're just fanboying?
@malice5121 No one is saying it isn’t impressive. But at that price point you would be better off building a pc and just emulating the games. Nowadays emulators have so many options you can make the picture look almost identical to original hardware. And if trying to make the image look sharp is your goal, why are using original hardware at all?
@mystraunt2705 I personally emulate everything since I lost access to my old consoles and love emulation handhelds but to those who have a lot of original consoles and games, this enables you to enjoy them on a modern display. Some games also don't emulate well and if it happens to be your favorite game then you're screwed.
@@mystraunt2705 You're missing the point completely though. It's basically a value judgment for each person. If you're just interested in playing a game, or want the most creature comforts you can get, then yeah, emulation is the way to go. If your enjoyment of retro gaming is tied to using the OG hardware itself (that's me), then you have to decide what you're willing to compromise on. Is it imperative that you use the original carts / discs, or is a flash cart or ODE or hacked firmware worth the trade-off in authenticity? Are you a die-hard CRT fan, or do you want to use modern displays? Those are all personal choices, and it borders on religion for enthusiasts. For me, I will absolutely have OG hardware and a CRT. But, I will have a secondary output feeding a scaler into a 4K LCD TV. I want both. It's not lost on me that a Mister could do all of this as well, or often _better,_ than the original hardware could. But that's not the point. It's about the ritual. The hardware is part of the experience, and without it, it's just not the same. Also, I have a ton of retro PCs -- IBM PCs and clones, Macs, Amiga, a Sharp X68K... all of those benefit from a versatile scaler, too. This class of scaler is a serious investment, but I've put t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s into hardware and software already, so if it's a substantial improvement to put a few hundred bucks into a first-class scaler, so be it. It's not worth it to everyone, but it would be worth it to me.
I see a lot of comments complaining about the price, but to me, I see this as a tool for professionals and organisations: CZcamsrs, Twitch streamers, gaming archivists, competitive retro gaming hosts, etc.; i.e. the kind of people who make a living off gaming content or have a vested commercial interest in having the best tools available. If this can give you a quality edge over competitors, save compatibility headaches with awkward display standards, or can save you time having to swap-out various scalers that do different jobs better than each other, it's well worth the investment. This is a professional tool for professionals, which is why the other Retrotinks will continue to be available as perfectly adequate tools for the hobbyist and consumer markets.
The 5X is 100% worth the price. So was were the 2X models. Hard to not assume the 4K will also be a good value (particularly for people that could use it to make money via streaming or whatever else)
The ability to sync to so many different sources, and the speed at which it detects proper resolutions, is just incredible. I really like the OSSC, but it takes a short eternity to figure out what resolution to sync to, and it doesn't always get it right. (And sometimes it curls up in a fetal position and refuses to come back until you reboot it.) We haven't really had the ability to go between resolutions in sub-second time since the days of CRT TVs and all-analog VGA monitors. Ever since things went digital (even Multisync-style CRT monitors, but definitely once we were in the LCD era), you would miss things like boot messages due to the sync lag. We lost that agility a couple decades ago, and never got it back. I would _like_ 4K, just to be able to scale 720p x3, but I could've lived with 1080p probably forever. The sync dexterity here, though... is genuinely _stunning._ Bravo, sir.
Kind of hidden in the last few seconds or I missed it earlier in the video: mvg did not have to buy the unit. In my opinion it would have been better to state something like "I was given this unit" and then explain if you would or would not buy it.
@wateriestfire and that's perfectly fine, the Tink4k wouldn't be for you. The Tink5x would be abit more closer for you. Even at $300 it could be abit much for someone that just plays a retro console once a month though, tink2x is just alil over $100 but very minimal options,
you did a fantastic job of not showing any difference in image quality or definitive side by side comparisons, ive come away from this having listened to a lot of words but seen nothing worth 750
all of it looks pretty bad tbh, especially the n64, so I think having side by side would have been great just to see what the difference from playing on a CRT actually would be just claiming it's a must have a bunch and then trying to say it's only for true enthusiasts instead of something like a much cheaper CRT for older games feels disingenuous. Feels like watching an ad.
I think the biggest selling point is compatibility with old computers that can output any random video signal under the sun, all without having to pull your hair out trying to tweak it.
It's way too expensive for most people for sure, but it does seem like a great product that would be well worth it to SOME people who can actually afford it.
While I do think the price is way too much, the fact that there are so many price options from super affordable to the extreme is awesome. I love that, I’m sticking to my 5x but I think it’s awesome
$750... is ridiculous, the whole retro gaming market bubble needs to burst. Honestly a nice CRT, or the right emulator with CRT shaders looks just as good. I'm glad that the systems I grew up with were the sixth generation and beyond, since the seventh gen consoles were mostly backward compatible. My 360, PS3, and Wii u really have made retro gaming cheap and easy.
I think you mean the price of FPGAs needs to tank... Buyers of this aren't looking to emulate. We're looking to hook up our vast array of consoles to a big ass modern OLED. Nobody buying it NEEDS it. We simply want it. It's not a necessity, mike himself even recommends the 5x over it for 99% of users. It's not for everyone and I don't see why that's a problem.
It's not ridiculous at all. The parts for a 4K scaler are extremely expensive. There are cheaper scalers available. This has nothing to do with the retro gaming bubble, you don't know what you're talking about.
It's expensive, and way out of my budget, but this is high end bespoke hardware with significant man hours behind it. The price is high but understandable given the context. Personally I'll just stick to my CRT and use an OSSC if I need a flat panel, but maybe I'll grab one of these in a few years when/if they come down in price.
100% agree ive asked the email for Retrotink and left comments on some other reviewers ...no one says anything gives it a bad look. Not a bad thing if disclosed but it should be. TBF MVG did say Mike sent it over....but we dont know if as a gift or intent to return.
I’m in AU so $750 is over $1000 which is absurd! I can’t bring myself to play old games on emulation as using the OG hardware is part of the experience but I could not fathom that amount of money to play ocarina of time in 4k on my TV!
The RAD2X (Nintendo version) is far from cheap, but I've heard that it's 50 USD plus shipping. It performs the same as the 2X Pro as it has the same hardware inside of it, and does a very good job with composite video signals as well, but it will also automatically switch to using an RGB signal when one is present, and without needing to buy the expensive component cables that you would need to get for use with most other retro adapters. An N64 will need an RGB mod in order to output an RGB signal, and NTSC versions of the Gamecube will also need an RGB mod in order for that to work, but most versions of the Snes will support RGB without needing any mod, and there are even some versions of the NES that the RAD2X will work with, though you would need to modify it in order to get an RGB signal from one.
It's not for you then 😊 I have a huge amount of modded systems to use on this so makes it worth it. If you only own a couple of systems this isn't for you. It's the best of the best and that takes cash and alot of time to create solo. 100% worth it for my setup
It's funny i say this is too high but i did just buy a 4 thousand dollar pc for my self It's got a RTX 4090 Suprim Liquid X and i9 13900K in it. I have not even started setting up any emulators on it yet and since it's winter it doubles as a space heater lol @@kevinwoolford123
@@kevinwoolford123 Nah emulators are way more feature rich and you don't even need that expensive of a rig to run any of these games it's a foolish product to spend your money on like an 18 year old spending their rent money on a Xbox Series X it's retarded
"i have a huge amount" which means you have also a huge amount of money, and you are here to brag about it, like other morons on the comments. that would explain your point of view on this thing@@kevinwoolford123
I know this is the little outside the scope of your channels focus. However, did you have a chance to test it on 1080p content like a Blu ray scaled to 4k through the hdmi? I would love to see a side by side comparison vs a 4k Blu ray of the same content. If that's not an option, perhaps a disc rip from drive to do an a/b comparison.
Everyone shocked by the price needs to understand that these are basically manufactured by a single guy out of his garage in a really expensive part of Southern California. Every shipment I've gotten from him has even come with a handwritten thank you
The big thing is the cost of components. That’s where it gets expensive. The market hasn’t recovered at all, and I suspect that FPGAs aren’t going down in price anytime soon:( I’m sure someone has down a breakdown somewhere, so they have proper info. But if he could sell it for less he would.
There you go that handwritten note makes all alright. 🙄 I don't care if it's made by little elves in a hollow tree it's NOT worth $750. There is nothing this does that justifies the price. I'm glad it exists for those handful of people who are convinced they really need this but this is insane.
@@mpholicx2ppl say the same about a $1000 phone/iphone or whatever but guess what? yeah, ppl can use a $300 phone but some want the best camera, best screen, best anything, so they buy it. same here. if you want the best (currently), you will pay a lot. and vintage computers/consoles, as with any forw. hobby, is expensive.
Man, I remember the early days of up-scaling. It's amazing how far we've come! It's expensive but sometimes, when something does EXACTLY what it promises and does it well, it's worth it. And I'm sure that price will become more approachable with time. This thing pulls off miracles from what you showed in the video. I can only imagine in real life it's even more impressive!
I genuinely think this is a fair price for not only what it does, but also the very tiny audience that it’s aimed at. It’s not like they can mass produce and sell millions of these. The cost of R&D and labour that goes into something like this has to be made back, and that’s very hard with such a small run.
But it doesnt increase the resolution of the game, it increases the resolution of the image so the TV doesnt have to do the work of upscaling, its a bit misleading, people might think they can play 4K with the Nintendo Switch with that device and that is wrong
Why people saying the price is insane? Sounds about right for everything it does. Just cause you cant afford it or would not buy it doesnt mean its price is wrong or even the right product for you.
This is also great for people who also wants to upscale and digitize VHS tapes like i do, i think this is a must buy for me, for consoles and vhs capture
For the Amiga a better res switching test would be Pinball Illusion when going into multiball. On the OSSC it takes about a second to switch and will make you lose balls more often than not. So far GBS Control is the only scaler I have found that handles Amiga resolution switches on the fly perfectly.
Have you tested any old video sources (dvd, laserdisc) with the 4k? Mike said it could work with them as well. I’m curious to see how they look with it.
I just hope this device is made for many years to come. If it is only sold for a year or two, then its value will quickly shoot well into the thousands of dollars and those of us looking to pick one up down the road will be completely out of luck. Devices like this are perfect for future-proofing a retro gaming setup, but unless it remains available for years to come, it won't matter much to most retro gamers.
Mike Chi has been releasing new better versions of his stuff for a good long time and they seem popular enough for the guy to keep making newer better ones. By the time you want or need one chances are a better version of this will be available.
That is by far the best 4K upscaler I've seen. I've looked at many upscalers that claim to upscale to 4K but they simply sharpen the image and doesn't truly scale up to 4K. But this upscaler looks like the real deal, I've never seen Breath of The Wild look that clean unless someone is running it off a emulator on PC.
very fine piece of technology, okay it's not for everyone at that price point but if you got a game room with 15+ console new and old that's pretty good especially when you think that you may not need any special console video cable or mods because it does it for you (that save quite a bit on the whole cost). Most of the peoples commenting on price forget that it's still the kind of products created and sold for a very "niche" market, it cost quite a bit in time, ressource to design from the ground build it, between engineering/designing, coding all the firmwares and tools, creating multiple hardware samples, testing time, etc... the costs ramps up quite a bit, if the creator was selling 150k units a month, that device would probably cost 100$, but selling/producing just maybe a hundred unit a month (and im probably being generous), can't drive the cost down fast and you still have to count your R&D cost for each units, manufacturing, cost of logistics, etc.... And i don't count also the possible clones and hacked copy that would be on the market after a few months/weeks, cutting down even further into the creator ROI. If you want it, just wait a bit, cost will probably be going down after a year or so like his other products
No, It's just to expensive. Its indicitive of the price gougung that happens everyday in the retro game market. £300+ for the 5x was bad enough but this is indeed a huge piss take.
@@ogxboxmikeyou're clearly out of the loop. Just say that you don't know what you're talking about and get the hell off the video as it's not for you. The FPGA alone is expensive.
@@ogxboxmike you can either get one Rad2X for every console you own or get an HDMI mod for every console you own, once you pass 4+ consoles, the RT5X starts to make a lot of sense just to get your things connected to a lot of televisions once you hit 7 consoles, the RT5X is a no-brainer once you hit more than that and you have a really good television, the RT4K makes perfect sense. if you're not that invested in this hobby, that's fine, the rt4k isn't for you, there's other products like i mentioned.
@@NeptuneSega indeed just the FPGA is around 220/300$ depending on the model used (and that's 30 unit order minimum), the transmitter (hdmi 2.0 600mhz) is probably around 50$ ish, i estimate the BOM to be around 350-400$. so definitly not cheap (and that doesn't count assembly)
I've been quite happy with my OSSC for everything except glitchy passthrough with higher resolutions, so it's awesome that this new scaler exists. The price is what it is. Considering HDMI mods, run ahead emulation, and devices like MiSTer (with MARS around the corner), retro enthusiasts have plenty of quality options now.
Did MVG just mention BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the same breath as a Ferrari?? LOL. I much better and more accurate analogy would be the Tink 4K is a Ferrari and the OSSC Pro/Morph *that we know* being the lesser but still extremely excellent other automobile manufacturers.
Seeing the price tag of these scalers makes me happy about emulation to no end lol. Definitely a product only for the ultra enthusiast physical hardware collector. For me personally, I think I'll just stick with opening the settings on my favorite emulators and setting their internal render resolutions to 4K for free.
@@NickJayj Honestly, if you're really trying to do 4K with all these enhancement filters and other junk, it's going to look better on an emulator. This is merely upscaling to 4K, emulators actually render the game at that resolution.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte with time - i started to see that upscaling by emulators games look very ugly - its not meant to look that way , ps2 plain textures in 4k looks bad - specially compare to background that not upscaled. like in Tekken games on ps2 - characters is high reaolution and backgroud is still in 480p.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte i dont have crt (i have bit its small, old, already blue spots on screen). so upscaling on like only 720p on lcd will work to look like real console
$750 is a lot for many things, but for a low volume product, made by one guy, in such a professional looking package, I don’t think it’s that crazy. This coming from someone who absolutely has no need for one
I did not find this review to be serious or rigorous. It is more like an advertisement than a real review. Wouldn't it have been appropriate to compare this equipment with, for example, a FrameMeister?
I would love to have one of these, but the 750$ price point is a tough pill to swallow, I could personally never justify it. Especially as I currently have a 10 year old 1080p TV. xD I opted for the ~75$ GBS-C instead for my Amiga, Dreamcast and XBOX (you can find the upscaler complete as a single-PCB product on Chinese ebay alternative, no soldering required these days). it can scale up to 1080p, has both bob- and motion adaptive de-interlacing, no input latency and zero-delay resolution switching. It's a bit more finicky to setup and I also found it impossible to get a correct horizontal phase on the Dreamcast VGA (due to its 720x480p resolution instead of 640x480), however, I can't notice any issues or moire patterns with when I am in-game and away from test patterns (even when I detail study the image). Once you have your profiles ready to go it looks fantastic for the price. It does 95% of the job for hobbyists looking for a really versatile quality upscaler... What you don't get compared to this is easy auto-settings, 4K output, pre-made profiles, CRT-filters (you get scanlines though), hdmi input, and when you target 1080p integer you are limited to 4x with borders with no option for 5x overscale. With that being said, there's a definitely a market and need for the Retrotink4K, simulating CRTs (with filters, black frame insertion etc) is paramount now when CRTs are slowly dying and falling off into obscurity. Gotta love Mike Chi's work on this. And once my own TV dies on me, I will likely get myself a 4K upscaler which is hopefully are cheaper by that point.
@@Zontar82 Glad I could help! Not all of us need the RetroTink4K. The GBS-C is definitely a "good enough" device for those who just want a good looking and high performing image of retro consoles. :)
The market is basement dwellers who worship mike and streamers/youtubers. This shit is not worth it for the average consumer. stick with the GBS-C or upgrade to the 5x pro in the future.
Yes, I understand that $750 isn't cheap indeed. But before people say, 'this price is a joke,' they should search how much a Cyclone V 5CEBA7 FPGA costs on Mouser before making such statements. It's at least $200. Now, add the other components, case, taxes, development costs, and profit. $750 starts to make more sense. Don't blame RetroTINK; blame Intel for this absurd FPGA price.
@billy5688 dude what is yout? This channel has a good community and we don't call people names.. If you don't like what someone's opinion is fine, but don't behave like a child!
The price is a lot for this but I think if you have a collection of old consoles this is your one stop shop for them all. I could see someone buying this and nothing else would be needed for a very long time. I was blown away how good the Playstation titles featured here looked.
Would love to see a video comparing footage of both the OG Xbox and 360 with and without this scaler to see how much of a difference it makes across a few games
RetroTINK 4K, the scaler I thought I didn't need... until I saw this video and confirmed I really don't need it, unless I decide to buy a 4K TV to play low res retro games 🙂 Still an awesome piece of technology for the more enthusiasts and/or content creators.
For those saying the price is insane, you really don’t understand the amount of work Mike Chi has put into this. He’s just one guy, it’s not a big company building these using the economy of scale. Edit: i should add that the HDR injection while using scanlines to simulate the crt glow is magical.
It's too much in a market where a 1440p one costs a third of this. Could have been done by one guy or 100, in 1h or 1000K and it wouldn't matter. The end consumer only cares about the final product and it's price.
I will never understand the desire for such products, nor will I ever desire one myself. Being a purest at heart I have and will always be quite happy playing all of my consoles natively on the resolutions I grew up with, crappy composite included. That's why I stopped watching many retro video game CZcamsrs eg/gamesack because most of their footage is captured with an upscaler and doesn't depict the true look of the game during its release. It's false content to me..give me a crt and scart over one of these. Even if it was 300 dollars I wouldn't bite, but we're all different.
@@SomeeRandomGuy my oled will be 22 yrs old in 20 yrs. and I will be able buy a new one if it breaks. your crt will be 45 yrs old in 20 yrs and no replacement. don't be THAT stupid, please.....
Everyone whining and crying about the price clearly doesn't understand that it just costs a lot in components to make this thing. They also forget that time was you'd be paying $400 for a second hand Frame Meister that had a fraction of the features.
If it can handle VGA resolution swapping without a second or two of dropout like all the other solutions I've tried, it's worth it. I have spent way more than $750 combined on other devices looking for a good solution for playing old PC games and demos. Nothing I've used so far can do it. A good test is running Unreal ][ - Second Reality.
Looks the same to me but I attributed it to being on mobile. In fairness to MVG it may well be impossible to show the true quality of the device because of how CZcams compresses video
It's just sharper, which I suppose is the goal. Hard to tell on certain devices but my phone can do 4k 60 fps and TV up to 8k and adjusting the settings to the highest resolution there is a noticeable difference which I'm sure will be even more noticeable in person outside of CZcams compression. But is it $750 noticeable well that's up for each person to decide.
I was using the Retrotink 2x on my 4k oled. But ever since i got a CRT (with S-video and component inputs) on the marketplace for FREE i just play all my retro games on that.
Really? How big is the CRT? What model? I would have thought that, if you already have a Retrotink 2x and the right component cables for your consoles, most games would still be more enjoyable to play on the modern Oled TV. Personally I have a good 2018 model LCD TV that I use to play games on an RGB modded N64 with a RAD2X, and to me that is already a huge improvement over any CRT I ever played on back in the day.
I have a panasonic ct-32sf37b. I'm not sure if it was anything to do with my OLED but on the retrotink I had screen tearing on the gamecube in games like Paper Mario thousand year door. And N64 had audio crackling issues in games like Star Fox. I heard the audio issues were patched in a firmware update, but since I have the OG 2018 retrotink I think I have to mail it to them to be updated. I'll update once I hear back on their discord. The CRT works like a charm though.
One game that surprised me to not see here was the N64 version of Resident Evil 2! I remember from your RE2: Impossible Port video that the game constantly switches resolutions in between screen and you had issues recording with your capture cards. I honestly would’ve been blown away to see the RetroTINK 4K just handle that with ease. Real bummer it’s not here.
6:10 "the difference is quite notable" *shows literally zero difference between images* I think this device's most useful capability is connecting retro consoles to modern TVs
Yeah seriously. And why even bother doing that? If you're gonna use a modern TV instead of a CRT, just emulate and output to native res or use CRT shaders. This is a stupid product.
Can’t imagine a scenario where I’d use this a bunch. The Switch does look rad upscaled, but I’m not gonna run my Switch permanently thru a scaler. I have all the retro systems and 1000s of games as well, but for the little use they actually get, the hassle of setting it all up isn’t worth it DREAMCAST on my CRT with SVideo, or PS2, Saturn, GC, etc thru component is good enough Having said that, I wouldn’t mind having one just to mess with it.
That price is eye watering. I would want to hook multiple systems up through it for my retro gaming station. I guess I could get an hdmi switch and component switcher but they may harm the performance of the scaler.. I think I’ll have to wait several years for the price to come down
Expensive but high quality products are - think that was addressed really well in this video. Price is too high for me but I'm not so bothered by imagine quality (wish the lower end retrotinks did scart!). Want the best? You're going to have to pay for it. Enjoyed the review :)
It depends on how much scaling you do, but typically 1-2 ms in Frame Lock and Gen Lock mode, which is basically nothing. Triple Buffer mode is a rolling 1-17 ms.
Fun fact (as somebody with epilepsy): Contrary to all the warnings you see in games and the prevalence in other media and what-not, only a tiny portion of people with epilepsy have photo sensitivity as a trigger. About 4%. So it's a tiny % affected of a small % who have epilepsy at all. It's so pervasive in media I still get nervous around strobes even though its never been a trigger in tests. But yea, that was an artifact of the time, limited resources, that was how things were made "exciting", haha.
It's not really meant for people who just got a NES from a garage sale. People who will buy it will have collections orders of magnitude more expensive than this.
@@novh4ck people who have large collections do it to have collections, not to play them enough to justify spending that much on a device unless they want that to also collect dust
750 is steep but… for a small volume product of this quality, it doesn’t seem unreasonable. I’m mainly an emulator guy for consoles of this age but glad to see this as an option.
i mean the framemeister used to cost like 500 back in the day. anyone that complains about the price hasn't been paying attention. i'm happy with my rt5x due to not having any 4k tvs. lol make me rich :P
I’m curious how the scaler handles the resident evil titles, specifically for N64 and Dreamcast due to resolution switching. This product may not be for everybody, but man it looks like an absolute beast, I’m in awe
Yeah, I thought RE was guaranteed to be in this video, he tested it with the 5x in the past if I recall correctly. The other game he tests did the same thing, but that's not as mainstream as RE.
am I just blind or what I literally do not notice any difference between 1080p and 4k in the example given at 6:12 they both literally look the exact same???
@@qwertymesaI as viewing on a small screen and also could not observe a difference but perhaps in person it was perceptible, but did not translate over to the youtube compressed image for me.
Can someone explain to me why exactly retrotinks are so expensive? Surely at that price a CRT or even just emulating to play on your modern TVs is a much more feasible option?
A lot of people don't have space, or don't want to make space, for a CRT. Also, modern TVs still have some advantages over CRTs. Even though there are certain quirks of CRTs which the console games took advantage of, and even though their video signal and graphics aren't designed with modern flat panel TVs in mind, some games still look better, imo, on a good modern LCD TV than on most CRTs, if not all CRTs. Finding a really good, large CRT is also going to be even less feasible for most people than finding a smaller or medium sized one, and won't necessarily be cheap even if you do find one. Also, these adapters are made in fairly small quantities, and they also need to cover their R and D costs, so they can't get the costs down anywhere near as low as a large electronics manufacturer could if they were doing production runs in the millions of units. That being said, the Retrotink 2X Classic was already an excellent, well-rounded adapter, and went for 100 USD, which is obviously a LOT more affordable than the Retrotink 4k, and you can find some other adapters of a similar level of quality for around the same price, or even less in some cases. The RAD2X adapters are really good, but they are less versatile, as you have to buy a separate one for different console brands, as they plug directly into the proprietary ports used by different console brands, but that also comes with the benefit of not needing to buy an additional component cable for the system to plug into the adapter, as you would have to do with most other good retro adapters. Depending on what you need, a RAD2X could be the best value option for you, as they go for 50 GBP plus shipping, which I think is about 55 or 60 USD before shipping.
Yeah I'm going from have to stick with my collection of CRTs and slowly accumulating s video and component cables for my retro needs. Can't afford this glorious device.
This feels like a double sponsored video, GBS-Control which is a 45$ unit where you need to upload firmware to an ESP8266 and jumper 4 small wires has exactly the same and even more functionality than all Retrotinks while only missing 4k compared to 750$. And also retrotinks aren't the best scalers on the market by even a longshot. HDR is impossible to properly output since there is no data from console or game in the first place so nobody normal is going to use that emulation....
I'm not going to comment on how the RetroTinks compare to other scalers, but I wish to note that HDR apparently does have a use for better color rendering with shaders; I know RetroArch for instance has a CRT shader that uses HDR to better emulate the IRL appearance of a CRT. Dolphin also uses HDR for better emulating the PAL and NTSC-J colorspaces. That said, if you're not doing either I don't know what use it has, yeah.
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750 dollars madness price that more then a ps5. Worth it no they need to low that price down
MVG you don’t play World of Warships quit clownin’
@@lilmul123 He will eventually play it once someone ports it to the N64.
You mentioned you did not have a capture device capable of capturing what this device is able to output. Are you able to give suggestions on what capture device could capture what this device outputs?
Thanks for posting this. I know this isn't a game related question but have you tested this with VCR tapes? I ask because I'm debating on getting a high-end scaler because I have a ton of VHS tapes to rip and I need a really good scaler due to some interlacing issues I have with many of the tapes. The price isn't a problem for me if this produces the best possible quality, however, I'm not interested in throwing money away if there are equally good options. Anyway, I'd appreciate your thoughts.
Ah, yes.
$2000 OLED? Check
$1000 Sound System? Check
$750 Scaler? Check
$500 Mister setup? Check
Finally, I can play Super Mario Bros. the way god intended.
That’s a very reasonable price to have your N64 look like it’s running on a shit 90s CRT.
TBF you probably don't need RT4K with MiSTer ( though native 4k upscale is slightly better than a 1440p upscale that your TV upscales to 4k)
You forgot the USB steering wheel
Do it with SotN and watch that beautiful walk cycle😊
There is a cheaper option: emulation. And you don't have to upscale the image, you can increase the internal resolution for a way better final image.
$750 is absurd, looks like I'll be sticking with a CRT lmao was stoked at first but its 2023, the economy isn't in a situation where folks can justify buying it.
Odds are that in a few years they'll release an improved version and this might become more affordable, but this is clearly not aimed at regular gamers, but people who make of gaming, especially retro gaming, their actual job.
Or any economy lol if you factor in the problems with old consoles and prices of them, the prices of retro games, the prices for the controllers etc it's a completely moronic buy
I mean yeah it's not meant for most people, most people would be satisfied with a ossc, retrotink 2x, and maybe a retrotink 5x.
Those are rookie numbers
@@faenethlorhalien You're 100% right that's who it's aimed at... but at that price point, I think it's even a hard sell for them.
Side by side comparison would be nice in this case between 1080 and 4k. Or 3 windows showing native then 1080 then 4k, side by side
I think if you're watching a video of a comparison, you may or may not notice a difference depending on the resolution of the monitor you're looking on. I think if you wanted to see a true difference it have to have one video playing on a 4K TV and another video playing on a 1080p TV
6:10 - He did the Fable comparison, where it went from 1080p to 4k from frame to frame. You can see a clear difference in sharpness/clarity. Naturally, I would also recommend manually setting this video's quality to 4K. Even if you're on a 1440p screen, you will see the quality difference.
If you do that, you will see that the improvements are nonexistence...
Just use your arrow keys to move the timeline.
There is no reason to waste money on this.
@@ElShotte Not gonna lie, they look identical to me. But I'm running a 1080p monitor so maybe that's why
A side-by-side comparison could only be accurate on an 8K upload (with an 8K monitor).
6:08 "...the difference is quite noticeable."
Just me who couldn't see it change 😆
Exactly, This whole product just seems delusional. Like when people buy gold plated HDMI cables for "better image quality" lol
$750 for a upscaler, like wtf? Who is this even for?
@@NickJayj I can't imagine that price is in anyway justified for the product? 99.9% people do not really care beyond native output vs a nice clean HD output. I got a HDMI output for my PS2 the other day for 9 dollars - it looks great, really cleared up the image. That's all I ask for.
@@NickJayjenthusiasts Cleary. Also, are you watching on a 4k display while having 2160p selected?
I swear I had to pause the video multiple times just to make sure I wasn't going crazy
@@Awesomeness4627 Even with a 4K screen and 2160p selected CZcams's compression is going to make comparisons hard.
@Nickjayj the gold plating on HDMI cables can actually make a difference and is in fact part of the spec for 4K and 8K cables which are far more susceptible to interference (there's an older LTT video where they used a cable tester and explained some of the science). Gold plated TOSLink on the other hand is just stupid (it's an optical connection) but the gold plated ones are often cheaper than the non-plated ones.
I will say that the vast majority of people don't actually care about resolution that much. Those that say they don't care often care more than they realize while those that say they care often can't tell the difference between 720 and 4K. CZcams actually did some experiments where they switched peoples videos to lower resolutions to see how many people would switch it back, I was apparently one of the relative few that was bothered by it but even I can't always tell the difference. Especially in something like a talking head video, it seems to be far more noticeable, at least to me, with videos that have more movement or action to them so a video game at different resolutions would probably be more noticeable (at least to me, I'm also slightly autistic so I might perceive things a bit differently).
Personally, I can't justify the cost (and to be fair to MVG he did make a big deal about the cost). I just don't play enough retro consoles, I'm more likely to play a remake or use emulation (even in cases where it's inferior) because it's easier. The one system I'd really like to use this on is the Switch but there's a good chance the Switch 2 or whatever it gets called will be backwards compatible and have a native upscaler (probably NVidia DLSS based). I could also, probably, find a Switch emulator (that hasn't been disappeared due to questionable business practices giving Nintendo an actual leg to stand on) to play Switch games at higher resolutions and with other benefits like better load times and mods (to be clear I do legally own all of my Switch games as well as a Nintendo Switch console/handheld and feel I'm entitled to play them on superior hardware if I so choose).
I bought this scaler and suddenly my status changed to divorced...
Partners come and go. Gaming is for life
Awesome awesome comment
I’m glad you arrived at a better resolution.
@@beansoup1088😆
This would have worked out so much better for me if they didn't open up orders during THAT time of the month.
I remember thinking $350-400 for the Framemeister years ago was the peak of high end devices (barring extron-like equipment). This is crazy, just not something I'd ever see myself needing. Mike Chi is really making everything at every level.
The Framemeister still goes for $400+
Not a great deal whatsoever too much money. Only the few hardcore in this retro community will buy it. I'm guessing the next Retrotink that he builds will be almost $2,000? Well the Chinese will build some cheaper clone and will sale for a lot cheaper.
@@CAPCOM784they have not even matched the 5x yet.
@@TheCoolDaveonly because of scarcity, not base value
@@Fennecbutt Well you can't get a RetroTink 4K right now anyway.... So I am sure they will sell for a lot more than their value...
Definitely not meant for my amateur ass 😅 I dust off an old PS2 every now and again, hook it up with a random aftermarket component cable I got years ago and I'm reasonably happy with the results. To the few people who've been waiting for this and can afford it, go nuts!
Yeah for one console it would be more cost effective to get it HDMI modded
At the price, it's too much of a luxury for me. But it's good to see the way things are going.
If it supports 120hz output, you'd think having HDMI 2.1 ports for 4K120 would be a no brainer. Added cost - yes, but this is a very high end expensive product.
I would have loved 2.1 but it would have been a huge cost increase. We’d be looking at something in 1000+ range at that point.
I thought that at first, but realized the only way that really matters is if you have a 4K 120 Hz TV without its own BFI. I don't need the Tink 4K's BFI since my TV can do it for me.
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
@@raafmaat well for starters the bandwidth for 4k120 is great deal bigger than 1440p at 120. I’m guessing that would have alone probably required a more powerful chipset to be able to do the scaling and have all the features it currently has for that.
@@TVsBen The newer LG OLEDs (starting with the C2) don't have 120 Hz BFI. It'd be pretty useful imo.
6:08 does anyone else not notice the "notable" difference in 4k and 1080p? Looks like nothing changes
Obviously you need to watch this video through the retrotink to see the notable and obvious differences...
I can’t tell the difference too
I usually can tell changes in image quality really easily, but yeah I couldn't notice anything. And my video quality *was* set to 4K.
Thank you, I thought I was going crazy. I can suggest taking a couple of screenshots and flipping between them to actually be able to see the difference, the 1080p image looks a little bit "smeary" or out of focus compared to the 4k one and the blades of grass/shadows appear to be slightly more detailed. But I think this product definitely isn't for me lol, I kept rewinding the video and could not spot the difference.
Honestly, the input resolution is so low there's realistically not that much info to really upscale from.
Scaling it to 1080P is enough, most modern TV's will be intelligent enough to integer scale that to 4k (so every 1 pixel becomes 4 pixels of the same colour). The output is going to be artifacty & shimmery regardless because the input resolution is low (garbage in = garbage out).
More info on lag/latency would have been good.
Along with further testing on earlier consoles.
Input lag measurements >
2.5ms - (Just by using Tink4K + FrameLock)
8.3ms - (Tink4K's Black frame insertion, which cuts down 50% of OLED motion blur)
9-10ms - (From your OLED or QD-OLED TV's game mode)
Grand total is around 20-21ms of latency. Or around 12ms without BFI...Although, BFI + the HDR10 brightness boost trick is crucial imo in order to get good motion clarity. Without it, you're stick with 100% motion blur, which is terrible imo. BFI gets you cleaner plasma-tier motion clarity.
a Samsung S90D or S90C QD-OLED + RetroTInk4K is the best combination at this point.
$750 is expensive to most including myself, however coming from an AV background where you'd be specifying things like Kramer to do input switching and scaling this is actually not a bad price from a professional standpoint. To boot, this is probably better than any industrial scaler I've seen.
That's the thing .. I'm not sure what he's using under the hood, but last time I checked, actual HDMI transceivers (not just digital video transceivers that _happen_ to be compatible with HDMI) are not something you can just buy for a few bucks each and drop on a PCB to send to OSH Park. That's the main reason 4K was off the table for so long. Everyone making devices with "HDMI" ports was doing it on the sly, often generating the bitstream manually, since getting properly licensed to use real HDMI components would've been way, WAY out of league.
I'm not sure if this is just god-tier hardware hacking, or if the guy actually got blessed by the AV Illuminati, but either way... it wouldn't have been easy, and it _sure_ wouldn't have been cheap.
Trust me. The $750 you would have to pay for this is nothing compared to what this had to have cost to develop. You want 4K? Alright. Here's what it costs. At least until you get to LG/Samsung/Sony scale.
I don't know much about this topic myself but I remember someone asked the creator, Mike Chi, why doesn't this support 4k at 120hz or something like that. Apparently if it did, this product would've been thousands of dollars in price just because the chips are so expensive. It seemed like to do anything close to this good, the price has to be closer to 1000 dollars just because the hardware inside is so expensive.
It's still way too expensive for me though, but I will stick to using CRTs or I will buy a cheaper scaler eventually. Retrotink's other products are pretty reasonable in price (and OSSC also) so there's still options for everyone.
I'd expect that the FPGA used is among the most expensive parts involved. People will sometimes overlook that the Cyclone-V in the DE10nano is subsidized and would normally cost more. Plus getting a nice injection molded case is not cheap either, as good quality replacement cases (including transparent ones from MacEffects, etc) are also fairly expensive.
@@nickwallette6201 The IT6615 costs around 10USD for us. This is the HDMI transmitter used.
$750 is cheaper than extron or crestron.. and lets be honest, kramer is a step down from those brands
I think what a lot of people are not talking about here when it comes to the price is the sheer level of hardware and software complexity at play here. I'll say that this is out of my league, I'll never be able to afford one. However, what this scaler does is show that it CAN be done. Now other folks are going to have to up their game. I honestly love that. Mike Chi shows just what you can do when you refuse to compromise and make cuts. A product like that has to exist to elevate the entire market.
The fact that Mike can get the price below a 1000 bucks is pretty impressive.
That being said, it's definitely meant for hobbyists and enthusiasts. I already have my Tink5X and for 300 bucks, it should be good enough for most retro gamers that don't own a framemeister but they want something better.
But dang, the separate VGA input and HDMI In can be pretty tempting 😅
Assuming you live in a developed nation I doubt you’d never be able to afford one literally, even if you only saved 2 dollars a month you’d be able to pay for it in only 30 years so unless you’re over 50 that should be within your lifetime statistically. If you save 50 cents a day it would take 4 years
Complexity of HW and SW is not a justification for an asking price to the end costumer. That is the manufacturer’s problem.
Customers are not responsible for how a problem is solved. They will pay for a solution to a problem , however.
If the solution is a net positive, then the customer will commit. Otherwise they will look to other options.
I'm just gonna go ahead and say it...I can't see any significant difference with this device, at least from the videos I've seen. I'm glad! It'll save me a lot of money.
I remember watching a podcast where Mike Chi was a guest around when the 5x came out and he was talking about the complexity and hardware necessary to get a 4K scaler. I'm surprised we got here so fast but not surprised at the price. This is quite the technical achievement, very impressive stuff
TBH, I didn't see it happening at all. This is remarkable -- not just technically, but in terms of getting this kind of niche device through the entire process must have been quite the gauntlet. I would imagine there aren't many people on this planet that could've done that, and far fewer who _would_ have.
@malice5121 Who again is too smoothbrain on here to not understand it, huh?
All I see are people that are saying that they are not gonna blow 800 bucks on it.
Maybe you're just fanboying?
@malice5121 No one is saying it isn’t impressive. But at that price point you would be better off building a pc and just emulating the games. Nowadays emulators have so many options you can make the picture look almost identical to original hardware. And if trying to make the image look sharp is your goal, why are using original hardware at all?
@mystraunt2705 I personally emulate everything since I lost access to my old consoles and love emulation handhelds but to those who have a lot of original consoles and games, this enables you to enjoy them on a modern display. Some games also don't emulate well and if it happens to be your favorite game then you're screwed.
@@mystraunt2705 You're missing the point completely though. It's basically a value judgment for each person.
If you're just interested in playing a game, or want the most creature comforts you can get, then yeah, emulation is the way to go.
If your enjoyment of retro gaming is tied to using the OG hardware itself (that's me), then you have to decide what you're willing to compromise on. Is it imperative that you use the original carts / discs, or is a flash cart or ODE or hacked firmware worth the trade-off in authenticity? Are you a die-hard CRT fan, or do you want to use modern displays? Those are all personal choices, and it borders on religion for enthusiasts.
For me, I will absolutely have OG hardware and a CRT. But, I will have a secondary output feeding a scaler into a 4K LCD TV. I want both.
It's not lost on me that a Mister could do all of this as well, or often _better,_ than the original hardware could. But that's not the point. It's about the ritual. The hardware is part of the experience, and without it, it's just not the same.
Also, I have a ton of retro PCs -- IBM PCs and clones, Macs, Amiga, a Sharp X68K... all of those benefit from a versatile scaler, too.
This class of scaler is a serious investment, but I've put t-h-o-u-s-a-n-d-s into hardware and software already, so if it's a substantial improvement to put a few hundred bucks into a first-class scaler, so be it. It's not worth it to everyone, but it would be worth it to me.
I see a lot of comments complaining about the price, but to me, I see this as a tool for professionals and organisations: CZcamsrs, Twitch streamers, gaming archivists, competitive retro gaming hosts, etc.; i.e. the kind of people who make a living off gaming content or have a vested commercial interest in having the best tools available.
If this can give you a quality edge over competitors, save compatibility headaches with awkward display standards, or can save you time having to swap-out various scalers that do different jobs better than each other, it's well worth the investment.
This is a professional tool for professionals, which is why the other Retrotinks will continue to be available as perfectly adequate tools for the hobbyist and consumer markets.
Yup definitely the only scaler I would ever need, because after this there is no money left
OMG, I laughed my ass off.
suddenly the 5X looks like a great deal, compared to the price of retrotink 4K🙂
I have the 5x, definitely worth the $$
The 5X is 100% worth the price. So was were the 2X models. Hard to not assume the 4K will also be a good value (particularly for people that could use it to make money via streaming or whatever else)
The ability to sync to so many different sources, and the speed at which it detects proper resolutions, is just incredible. I really like the OSSC, but it takes a short eternity to figure out what resolution to sync to, and it doesn't always get it right. (And sometimes it curls up in a fetal position and refuses to come back until you reboot it.)
We haven't really had the ability to go between resolutions in sub-second time since the days of CRT TVs and all-analog VGA monitors. Ever since things went digital (even Multisync-style CRT monitors, but definitely once we were in the LCD era), you would miss things like boot messages due to the sync lag. We lost that agility a couple decades ago, and never got it back.
I would _like_ 4K, just to be able to scale 720p x3, but I could've lived with 1080p probably forever. The sync dexterity here, though... is genuinely _stunning._ Bravo, sir.
I’m always impressed with flash carts, knowing that I can have multiple titles stored and pick what one I want to play. Now that’s a game changer.
I still use my Wii U for this.
Playing classic gamecube games on a tablet with 0 lag and a giant screen rules.
@@ZeranZeranTwo screens are better than one
Changer indeed : D
@@ZeranZeranNow I want a Wii U, any chance they're reasonably priced these days?
@@ZeranZeran wow, didnt know this was possible.
I played the 6:09 of Fable anniversary like 20 times and I can`t see the difference between 1080p and 4k at all.
The only reason i really want this is to upscale PS3 and 360. Hopefully they can just release something for hdmi consoles.
Fingers crossed
You're better of getting An MClassic or 4k Gamer Pro or both and combining the two at this price point.
Kind of hidden in the last few seconds or I missed it earlier in the video: mvg did not have to buy the unit. In my opinion it would have been better to state something like "I was given this unit" and then explain if you would or would not buy it.
I felt this video was a thank you for the free unit :)
@@nattila7713 so an advertisement
@@SomeeRandomGuy with the world of warships double dip
@@SomeeRandomGuy worse. an ad is an ad, this is a hidden ad :(
Yeah this is actually against CZcams’s TOS if so. Report the video for fraud.
750 for a state of the art scaler is too expensive. Buys it’s OK to drop 1000 bucks on a cellphone every other year? 🤷🏼
I use my cellphone all day every day, I break out the old genesis maybe once a month maybe
@wateriestfire and that's perfectly fine, the Tink4k wouldn't be for you. The Tink5x would be abit more closer for you. Even at $300 it could be abit much for someone that just plays a retro console once a month though, tink2x is just alil over $100 but very minimal options,
you did a fantastic job of not showing any difference in image quality or definitive side by side comparisons, ive come away from this having listened to a lot of words but seen nothing worth 750
all of it looks pretty bad tbh, especially the n64, so I think having side by side would have been great just to see what the difference from playing on a CRT actually would be
just claiming it's a must have a bunch and then trying to say it's only for true enthusiasts instead of something like a much cheaper CRT for older games feels disingenuous. Feels like watching an ad.
I think the biggest selling point is compatibility with old computers that can output any random video signal under the sun, all without having to pull your hair out trying to tweak it.
It's way too expensive for most people for sure, but it does seem like a great product that would be well worth it to SOME people who can actually afford it.
Wow was thinking I want this until you said 749 lol. Looks great but past by budget good luck to anyone that invests in it and enjoy
While I do think the price is way too much, the fact that there are so many price options from super affordable to the extreme is awesome. I love that, I’m sticking to my 5x but I think it’s awesome
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
@@yournightmare9999 honstly if i was 16 again and if we were rich I would!
@@yournightmare9999 I'll ask Santa for one instead.
@@TheAmazingMoose-Man so now you old and can't afford?
@@yournightmare9999why are you posting this on every thread 🤖🤖
This is really neat, but $750? I think I'll just get an OSSC.
I couldn't go back to the ossc now after the tink5x 😂
And for 90% of all cases you're good in doing so. The Tink5x and now especially the RT4K cater to a very specific niche of users and applications.
$750... is ridiculous, the whole retro gaming market bubble needs to burst.
Honestly a nice CRT, or the right emulator with CRT shaders looks just as good.
I'm glad that the systems I grew up with were the sixth generation and beyond, since the seventh gen consoles were mostly backward compatible.
My 360, PS3, and Wii u really have made retro gaming cheap and easy.
It's not ridiculous when you consider it's an FPGA.
I think you mean the price of FPGAs needs to tank...
Buyers of this aren't looking to emulate. We're looking to hook up our vast array of consoles to a big ass modern OLED.
Nobody buying it NEEDS it. We simply want it. It's not a necessity, mike himself even recommends the 5x over it for 99% of users.
It's not for everyone and I don't see why that's a problem.
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
It's not ridiculous at all. The parts for a 4K scaler are extremely expensive. There are cheaper scalers available. This has nothing to do with the retro gaming bubble, you don't know what you're talking about.
It's expensive, and way out of my budget, but this is high end bespoke hardware with significant man hours behind it. The price is high but understandable given the context. Personally I'll just stick to my CRT and use an OSSC if I need a flat panel, but maybe I'll grab one of these in a few years when/if they come down in price.
Impressive device, but the price is just insane.
It's not insane when you consider it's an FPGA.
@@BOYSSSSS Please elaborate.
Yeah, emulators are free and better.
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
@@basshead. It's okay to admit that you're a cheapskate
Did you buy this or was it a gift? This info should always be disclosed.
100% agree ive asked the email for Retrotink and left comments on some other reviewers ...no one says anything gives it a bad look. Not a bad thing if disclosed but it should be. TBF MVG did say Mike sent it over....but we dont know if as a gift or intent to return.
Is free of course.any CZcamsrs received it.......ehm all the clowns
I’m in AU so $750 is over $1000 which is absurd!
I can’t bring myself to play old games on emulation as using the OG hardware is part of the experience but I could not fathom that amount of money to play ocarina of time in 4k on my TV!
Yuuup it’s hitting $1k CAD too. Absolutely insane for an UPSCler.
The RAD2X (Nintendo version) is far from cheap, but I've heard that it's 50 USD plus shipping. It performs the same as the 2X Pro as it has the same hardware inside of it, and does a very good job with composite video signals as well, but it will also automatically switch to using an RGB signal when one is present, and without needing to buy the expensive component cables that you would need to get for use with most other retro adapters. An N64 will need an RGB mod in order to output an RGB signal, and NTSC versions of the Gamecube will also need an RGB mod in order for that to work, but most versions of the Snes will support RGB without needing any mod, and there are even some versions of the NES that the RAD2X will work with, though you would need to modify it in order to get an RGB signal from one.
$750! Damn that's too high for me lol
It's not for you then 😊 I have a huge amount of modded systems to use on this so makes it worth it. If you only own a couple of systems this isn't for you. It's the best of the best and that takes cash and alot of time to create solo. 100% worth it for my setup
It's funny i say this is too high but i did just buy a 4 thousand dollar pc for my self It's got a RTX 4090 Suprim Liquid X and i9 13900K in it. I have not even started setting up any emulators on it yet and since it's winter it doubles as a space heater lol @@kevinwoolford123
@@kevinwoolford123 Nah emulators are way more feature rich and you don't even need that expensive of a rig to run any of these games it's a foolish product to spend your money on like an 18 year old spending their rent money on a Xbox Series X it's retarded
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
"i have a huge amount" which means you have also a huge amount of money, and you are here to brag about it, like other morons on the comments. that would explain your point of view on this thing@@kevinwoolford123
I know this is the little outside the scope of your channels focus. However, did you have a chance to test it on 1080p content like a Blu ray scaled to 4k through the hdmi? I would love to see a side by side comparison vs a 4k Blu ray of the same content. If that's not an option, perhaps a disc rip from drive to do an a/b comparison.
Everyone shocked by the price needs to understand that these are basically manufactured by a single guy out of his garage in a really expensive part of Southern California. Every shipment I've gotten from him has even come with a handwritten thank you
The big thing is the cost of components. That’s where it gets expensive. The market hasn’t recovered at all, and I suspect that FPGAs aren’t going down in price anytime soon:(
I’m sure someone has down a breakdown somewhere, so they have proper info. But if he could sell it for less he would.
They're manufactured at a factory overseas. But yes, they are designed by a single guy in his garage.
does it come with beard cream and deodorant spray as well?
There you go that handwritten note makes all alright. 🙄 I don't care if it's made by little elves in a hollow tree it's NOT worth $750. There is nothing this does that justifies the price. I'm glad it exists for those handful of people who are convinced they really need this but this is insane.
@@mpholicx2ppl say the same about a $1000 phone/iphone or whatever but guess what? yeah, ppl can use a $300 phone but some want the best camera, best screen, best anything, so they buy it. same here. if you want the best (currently), you will pay a lot. and vintage computers/consoles, as with any forw. hobby, is expensive.
Man, I remember the early days of up-scaling. It's amazing how far we've come! It's expensive but sometimes, when something does EXACTLY what it promises and does it well, it's worth it. And I'm sure that price will become more approachable with time. This thing pulls off miracles from what you showed in the video. I can only imagine in real life it's even more impressive!
I genuinely think this is a fair price for not only what it does, but also the very tiny audience that it’s aimed at. It’s not like they can mass produce and sell millions of these. The cost of R&D and labour that goes into something like this has to be made back, and that’s very hard with such a small run.
But it doesnt increase the resolution of the game, it increases the resolution of the image so the TV doesnt have to do the work of upscaling, its a bit misleading, people might think they can play 4K with the Nintendo Switch with that device and that is wrong
Why people saying the price is insane? Sounds about right for everything it does. Just cause you cant afford it or would not buy it doesnt mean its price is wrong or even the right product for you.
It is wrong
@@petersmits6951yeah it should be free instead. /s
"cANT aFFORD iT? aRE yOU bROKE bOYS?"
a product can be overpriced and still do what it should do
This is also great for people who also wants to upscale and digitize VHS tapes like i do, i think this is a must buy for me, for consoles and vhs capture
For the Amiga a better res switching test would be Pinball Illusion when going into multiball. On the OSSC it takes about a second to switch and will make you lose balls more often than not. So far GBS Control is the only scaler I have found that handles Amiga resolution switches on the fly perfectly.
Have you tested any old video sources (dvd, laserdisc) with the 4k? Mike said it could work with them as well. I’m curious to see how they look with it.
That would be interesting.
But why?? Just rip them in a mkv container and use madvr
Works with LD players
$750 for a scaler, crazy
I just hope this device is made for many years to come. If it is only sold for a year or two, then its value will quickly shoot well into the thousands of dollars and those of us looking to pick one up down the road will be completely out of luck. Devices like this are perfect for future-proofing a retro gaming setup, but unless it remains available for years to come, it won't matter much to most retro gamers.
If there's a demand, there will be iterations and competitors so no worries
that's not how it works for kickstarters items and the likes such as thie niche thing@@MrKrewie
Mike Chi has been releasing new better versions of his stuff for a good long time and they seem popular enough for the guy to keep making newer better ones. By the time you want or need one chances are a better version of this will be available.
@@Zontar82 how does it work ? , genuine question
Just little note. 5x is not 275$ but 325$ ;-)
Alright. Fine. It's beautiful. I still can't afford it. Cheers to those who can, Mike really did something for ya.
This is amazing! I'm curious to know how this would handle analog video sources like VHS and Laserdisc.
That is by far the best 4K upscaler I've seen. I've looked at many upscalers that claim to upscale to 4K but they simply sharpen the image and doesn't truly scale up to 4K. But this upscaler looks like the real deal, I've never seen Breath of The Wild look that clean unless someone is running it off a emulator on PC.
very fine piece of technology, okay it's not for everyone at that price point but if you got a game room with 15+ console new and old that's pretty good especially when you think that you may not need any special console video cable or mods because it does it for you (that save quite a bit on the whole cost). Most of the peoples commenting on price forget that it's still the kind of products created and sold for a very "niche" market, it cost quite a bit in time, ressource to design from the ground build it, between engineering/designing, coding all the firmwares and tools, creating multiple hardware samples, testing time, etc... the costs ramps up quite a bit, if the creator was selling 150k units a month, that device would probably cost 100$, but selling/producing just maybe a hundred unit a month (and im probably being generous), can't drive the cost down fast and you still have to count your R&D cost for each units, manufacturing, cost of logistics, etc.... And i don't count also the possible clones and hacked copy that would be on the market after a few months/weeks, cutting down even further into the creator ROI. If you want it, just wait a bit, cost will probably be going down after a year or so like his other products
No, It's just to expensive. Its indicitive of the price gougung that happens everyday in the retro game market. £300+ for the 5x was bad enough but this is indeed a huge piss take.
@@ogxboxmikeyou're clearly out of the loop. Just say that you don't know what you're talking about and get the hell off the video as it's not for you. The FPGA alone is expensive.
@@ogxboxmike you can either get one Rad2X for every console you own or get an HDMI mod for every console you own, once you pass 4+ consoles, the RT5X starts to make a lot of sense just to get your things connected to a lot of televisions
once you hit 7 consoles, the RT5X is a no-brainer
once you hit more than that and you have a really good television, the RT4K makes perfect sense.
if you're not that invested in this hobby, that's fine, the rt4k isn't for you, there's other products like i mentioned.
@@NeptuneSega indeed just the FPGA is around 220/300$ depending on the model used (and that's 30 unit order minimum), the transmitter (hdmi 2.0 600mhz) is probably around 50$ ish, i estimate the BOM to be around 350-400$. so definitly not cheap (and that doesn't count assembly)
I've been quite happy with my OSSC for everything except glitchy passthrough with higher resolutions, so it's awesome that this new scaler exists. The price is what it is. Considering HDMI mods, run ahead emulation, and devices like MiSTer (with MARS around the corner), retro enthusiasts have plenty of quality options now.
For 750 usd, im expecting a huge improvement compared to the 5x pro and it just isn't there from all the footage I've seen.
Did MVG just mention BMW and Mercedes-Benz in the same breath as a Ferrari?? LOL. I much better and more accurate analogy would be the Tink 4K is a Ferrari and the OSSC Pro/Morph *that we know* being the lesser but still extremely excellent other automobile manufacturers.
Seeing the price tag of these scalers makes me happy about emulation to no end lol. Definitely a product only for the ultra enthusiast physical hardware collector. For me personally, I think I'll just stick with opening the settings on my favorite emulators and setting their internal render resolutions to 4K for free.
"bUt iT's NoT tHe SAMe!"
You are absolutely right, price is ridiculous..
@@NickJayj Honestly, if you're really trying to do 4K with all these enhancement filters and other junk, it's going to look better on an emulator. This is merely upscaling to 4K, emulators actually render the game at that resolution.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte with time - i started to see that upscaling by emulators games look very ugly - its not meant to look that way , ps2 plain textures in 4k looks bad - specially compare to background that not upscaled. like in Tekken games on ps2 - characters is high reaolution and backgroud is still in 480p.
@@ivan4087 If I wanted to play the game the way it was meant to look I'd be using a CRT monitor/TV with no enhancements.
@@BrianCroweAcolyte i dont have crt (i have bit its small, old, already blue spots on screen). so upscaling on like only 720p on lcd will work to look like real console
$750 is a lot for many things, but for a low volume product, made by one guy, in such a professional looking package, I don’t think it’s that crazy. This coming from someone who absolutely has no need for one
I did not find this review to be serious or rigorous. It is more like an advertisement than a real review. Wouldn't it have been appropriate to compare this equipment with, for example, a FrameMeister?
Or at least mention input lag
And here I am all these years later still using my Framemeister.
Still does exactly what I need it to do.
I would love to have one of these, but the 750$ price point is a tough pill to swallow, I could personally never justify it. Especially as I currently have a 10 year old 1080p TV. xD I opted for the ~75$ GBS-C instead for my Amiga, Dreamcast and XBOX (you can find the upscaler complete as a single-PCB product on Chinese ebay alternative, no soldering required these days). it can scale up to 1080p, has both bob- and motion adaptive de-interlacing, no input latency and zero-delay resolution switching. It's a bit more finicky to setup and I also found it impossible to get a correct horizontal phase on the Dreamcast VGA (due to its 720x480p resolution instead of 640x480), however, I can't notice any issues or moire patterns with when I am in-game and away from test patterns (even when I detail study the image). Once you have your profiles ready to go it looks fantastic for the price. It does 95% of the job for hobbyists looking for a really versatile quality upscaler... What you don't get compared to this is easy auto-settings, 4K output, pre-made profiles, CRT-filters (you get scanlines though), hdmi input, and when you target 1080p integer you are limited to 4x with borders with no option for 5x overscale.
With that being said, there's a definitely a market and need for the Retrotink4K, simulating CRTs (with filters, black frame insertion etc) is paramount now when CRTs are slowly dying and falling off into obscurity. Gotta love Mike Chi's work on this. And once my own TV dies on me, I will likely get myself a 4K upscaler which is hopefully are cheaper by that point.
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
thanks for the alternative, will definitely get one
Bruh 4k tvs are not even expensive. I got a 65 with dolby vision four years ago for $429. This shouldn't even be on your radar without a 4k tv.
@@Zontar82 Glad I could help! Not all of us need the RetroTink4K. The GBS-C is definitely a "good enough" device for those who just want a good looking and high performing image of retro consoles. :)
The market is basement dwellers who worship mike and streamers/youtubers. This shit is not worth it for the average consumer. stick with the GBS-C or upgrade to the 5x pro in the future.
This is cool for content creators. When I hook up my Ps1 to my LED, pressing the 4:3 button on the tv remote is good enough.
Yes, I understand that $750 isn't cheap indeed. But before people say, 'this price is a joke,' they should search how much a Cyclone V 5CEBA7 FPGA costs on Mouser before making such statements. It's at least $200. Now, add the other components, case, taxes, development costs, and profit. $750 starts to make more sense. Don't blame RetroTINK; blame Intel for this absurd FPGA price.
it's not even available for purchase, inb4 you start defending this toy for VERY rich people
@@Zontar82toy for you, but this can even be used to upscale any video input like old films etc. Are you this dense?
@billy5688 dude what is yout?
This channel has a good community and we don't call people names..
If you don't like what someone's opinion is fine, but don't behave like a child!
@@Zontar82 Its intended launch is early December. MVG simply got a unit a few weeks ahead of launch.
@@NeptuneSega the only One dense here Is you .😅
at $750 i'll keep my 2x, my old tv does a very good job at upscaling even 240p to 1080p.
Oh great, a new MVG video! I'll gladly check this scaler out!
>$750
hahaha NOPE 😊
The price is a lot for this but I think if you have a collection of old consoles this is your one stop shop for them all. I could see someone buying this and nothing else would be needed for a very long time. I was blown away how good the Playstation titles featured here looked.
Would love to see a video comparing footage of both the OG Xbox and 360 with and without this scaler to see how much of a difference it makes across a few games
RetroTINK 4K, the scaler I thought I didn't need... until I saw this video and confirmed I really don't need it, unless I decide to buy a 4K TV to play low res retro games 🙂
Still an awesome piece of technology for the more enthusiasts and/or content creators.
For those saying the price is insane, you really don’t understand the amount of work Mike Chi has put into this. He’s just one guy, it’s not a big company building these using the economy of scale.
Edit: i should add that the HDR injection while using scanlines to simulate the crt glow is magical.
I am not even sure how that is relevant. At the end, the market demand dictates the price. 750USD is very steep for a typical consumer.
What an autistic take. It's easy to imagine the amount of work put into it, and it's still way too expensive
@@SINfromPLyou realize that’s an opinion, not fact, correct?
It's too much in a market where a 1440p one costs a third of this. Could have been done by one guy or 100, in 1h or 1000K and it wouldn't matter. The end consumer only cares about the final product and it's price.
@@denisruskin348I am an end consumer as well. Imagine thinking saving $14 a week for a year is insane.
I'm watching this video on my phone at 144p in portrait on my phone. Looks pretty good. Thanks for sharing
I will never understand the desire for such products, nor will I ever desire one myself. Being a purest at heart I have and will always be quite happy playing all of my consoles natively on the resolutions I grew up with, crappy composite included. That's why I stopped watching many retro video game CZcamsrs eg/gamesack because most of their footage is captured with an upscaler and doesn't depict the true look of the game during its release. It's false content to me..give me a crt and scart over one of these. Even if it was 300 dollars I wouldn't bite, but we're all different.
will see your crt in 20 yrs... will ANY of them work? crt filter is a must!!
@@nattila7713 lets see your OLED in 20 years. that won't work either. stupid argument in favor of this
@@SomeeRandomGuy my oled will be 22 yrs old in 20 yrs. and I will be able buy a new one if it breaks. your crt will be 45 yrs old in 20 yrs and no replacement. don't be THAT stupid, please.....
Everyone whining and crying about the price clearly doesn't understand that it just costs a lot in components to make this thing. They also forget that time was you'd be paying $400 for a second hand Frame Meister that had a fraction of the features.
The PS2 clips almost looks like it's used with a HDMI mod. It looks incredible.
Emulation will always be the way to go.
If it can handle VGA resolution swapping without a second or two of dropout like all the other solutions I've tried, it's worth it. I have spent way more than $750 combined on other devices looking for a good solution for playing old PC games and demos. Nothing I've used so far can do it. A good test is running Unreal ][ - Second Reality.
Is it just me, but when he did the fable comparison at 6:15 the image looked no different?
Looks the same to me but I attributed it to being on mobile. In fairness to MVG it may well be impossible to show the true quality of the device because of how CZcams compresses video
It's just sharper, which I suppose is the goal. Hard to tell on certain devices but my phone can do 4k 60 fps and TV up to 8k and adjusting the settings to the highest resolution there is a noticeable difference which I'm sure will be even more noticeable in person outside of CZcams compression. But is it $750 noticeable well that's up for each person to decide.
... I don't know. For 750 scaler I think buy pc and emulator (with integer upscale) might be a better option.
I was using the Retrotink 2x on my 4k oled. But ever since i got a CRT (with S-video and component inputs) on the marketplace for FREE i just play all my retro games on that.
Really? How big is the CRT? What model? I would have thought that, if you already have a Retrotink 2x and the right component cables for your consoles, most games would still be more enjoyable to play on the modern Oled TV.
Personally I have a good 2018 model LCD TV that I use to play games on an RGB modded N64 with a RAD2X, and to me that is already a huge improvement over any CRT I ever played on back in the day.
I have a panasonic ct-32sf37b. I'm not sure if it was anything to do with my OLED but on the retrotink I had screen tearing on the gamecube in games like Paper Mario thousand year door. And N64 had audio crackling issues in games like Star Fox. I heard the audio issues were patched in a firmware update, but since I have the OG 2018 retrotink I think I have to mail it to them to be updated. I'll update once I hear back on their discord. The CRT works like a charm though.
But for NES, SNES, N64 (besides the audio) the Retrotink 2x is very good. I've been keeping a close eye on the Retrotink 4k it has a lot of potential!
One game that surprised me to not see here was the N64 version of Resident Evil 2! I remember from your RE2: Impossible Port video that the game constantly switches resolutions in between screen and you had issues recording with your capture cards. I honestly would’ve been blown away to see the RetroTINK 4K just handle that with ease. Real bummer it’s not here.
6:10 "the difference is quite notable" *shows literally zero difference between images*
I think this device's most useful capability is connecting retro consoles to modern TVs
lmao all i noticed was the shadow on the kids neck
I'm sure it's notable when you get a free device to review lol
Tbf, CZcams compression might make the difference in resolution unnoticeable
Yeah seriously. And why even bother doing that? If you're gonna use a modern TV instead of a CRT, just emulate and output to native res or use CRT shaders. This is a stupid product.
Were you watching with the video set to 4k?
Can’t imagine a scenario where I’d use this a bunch.
The Switch does look rad upscaled, but I’m not gonna run my Switch permanently thru a scaler.
I have all the retro systems and 1000s of games as well, but for the little use they actually get, the hassle of setting it all up isn’t worth it
DREAMCAST on my CRT with SVideo, or PS2, Saturn, GC, etc thru component is good enough
Having said that, I wouldn’t mind having one just to mess with it.
I’m sure it’s a great device but the over$700 price tag is absurd.
The FPGA it uses is about $300 which is insane because it was originally made in 2011. Guess there is no competition in the FPGA market.
It's not absurd when you consider it's an FPGA. I wish I could buy one but yeah, it's too expensive for me.
Ask your parents if they can buy you one for Christmas
@@yournightmare9999 Ironically childish response... How old are you?
That price is eye watering. I would want to hook multiple systems up through it for my retro gaming station. I guess I could get an hdmi switch and component switcher but they may harm the performance of the scaler.. I think I’ll have to wait several years for the price to come down
Holy shit @ 750 bucks.
Expensive but high quality products are - think that was addressed really well in this video. Price is too high for me but I'm not so bothered by imagine quality (wish the lower end retrotinks did scart!).
Want the best? You're going to have to pay for it.
Enjoyed the review :)
Hey Demetris, how much latency does this introduce? This is also a significant aspect to cover.
It depends on how much scaling you do, but typically 1-2 ms in Frame Lock and Gen Lock mode, which is basically nothing. Triple Buffer mode is a rolling 1-17 ms.
with a shitton of effects on, i've gotten it down to 2.5ms
with nothing on and doign no scaling, .9ms
@@MrMoroPlays how do you measure it?
@@psylencecyThere is a built in latency display.
Warning at 8:49 for flashing images that might trigger epilepsy.
Epilepsy warning from 8:49 to 8:52. Admittedly it was the 90s, at that time this was simply the State of the Art.... 😊
Fun fact (as somebody with epilepsy): Contrary to all the warnings you see in games and the prevalence in other media and what-not, only a tiny portion of people with epilepsy have photo sensitivity as a trigger. About 4%. So it's a tiny % affected of a small % who have epilepsy at all. It's so pervasive in media I still get nervous around strobes even though its never been a trigger in tests.
But yea, that was an artifact of the time, limited resources, that was how things were made "exciting", haha.
Buying this day one, can't wait to integrate this into my AV rack from my Extron switcher into my Crestron control system. Can't wait!
that price though
It's not really meant for people who just got a NES from a garage sale. People who will buy it will have collections orders of magnitude more expensive than this.
@@novh4ck people who have large collections do it to have collections, not to play them enough to justify spending that much on a device unless they want that to also collect dust
it's meant for manchilds that want to play retro games on 4k tv's
It looks like every buddy really likes the bit he said at 3:06 too.
Fable Anniversary, can't see any difference.
Appreciate the pause so we could hear a bit of the Agony theme. So beautiful piece of music.
750 is steep but… for a small volume product of this quality, it doesn’t seem unreasonable. I’m mainly an emulator guy for consoles of this age but glad to see this as an option.
i mean the framemeister used to cost like 500 back in the day. anyone that complains about the price hasn't been paying attention. i'm happy with my rt5x due to not having any 4k tvs. lol make me rich :P
$750 they best be joking with that price
I’m curious how the scaler handles the resident evil titles, specifically for N64 and Dreamcast due to resolution switching.
This product may not be for everybody, but man it looks like an absolute beast, I’m in awe
Yeah, I thought RE was guaranteed to be in this video, he tested it with the 5x in the past if I recall correctly.
The other game he tests did the same thing, but that's not as mainstream as RE.
am I just blind or what I literally do not notice any difference between 1080p and 4k in the example given at 6:12 they both literally look the exact same???
"The difference is quite notable" no it isn't??? they are both blurry messes that I can barely make out any detail on...
@@qwertymesaI as viewing on a small screen and also could not observe a difference but perhaps in person it was perceptible, but did not translate over to the youtube compressed image for me.
Wow Switch really does look sharp with this. Nice video, but i would have loved more side by side comparisons, specially for N64 or PS2.
Can someone explain to me why exactly retrotinks are so expensive?
Surely at that price a CRT or even just emulating to play on your modern TVs is a much more feasible option?
True, but will this device last longer than a (old) CRT? Probably. Emulation has drawbacks too.
The parts for a 4K scaler are expensive, the customer base for a high end device is small, that's it.
A lot of people don't have space, or don't want to make space, for a CRT. Also, modern TVs still have some advantages over CRTs. Even though there are certain quirks of CRTs which the console games took advantage of, and even though their video signal and graphics aren't designed with modern flat panel TVs in mind, some games still look better, imo, on a good modern LCD TV than on most CRTs, if not all CRTs. Finding a really good, large CRT is also going to be even less feasible for most people than finding a smaller or medium sized one, and won't necessarily be cheap even if you do find one.
Also, these adapters are made in fairly small quantities, and they also need to cover their R and D costs, so they can't get the costs down anywhere near as low as a large electronics manufacturer could if they were doing production runs in the millions of units. That being said, the Retrotink 2X Classic was already an excellent, well-rounded adapter, and went for 100 USD, which is obviously a LOT more affordable than the Retrotink 4k, and you can find some other adapters of a similar level of quality for around the same price, or even less in some cases. The RAD2X adapters are really good, but they are less versatile, as you have to buy a separate one for different console brands, as they plug directly into the proprietary ports used by different console brands, but that also comes with the benefit of not needing to buy an additional component cable for the system to plug into the adapter, as you would have to do with most other good retro adapters. Depending on what you need, a RAD2X could be the best value option for you, as they go for 50 GBP plus shipping, which I think is about 55 or 60 USD before shipping.
Yeah I'm going from have to stick with my collection of CRTs and slowly accumulating s video and component cables for my retro needs. Can't afford this glorious device.
This feels like a double sponsored video, GBS-Control which is a 45$ unit where you need to upload firmware to an ESP8266 and jumper 4 small wires has exactly the same and even more functionality than all Retrotinks while only missing 4k compared to 750$. And also retrotinks aren't the best scalers on the market by even a longshot. HDR is impossible to properly output since there is no data from console or game in the first place so nobody normal is going to use that emulation....
I'm not going to comment on how the RetroTinks compare to other scalers, but I wish to note that HDR apparently does have a use for better color rendering with shaders; I know RetroArch for instance has a CRT shader that uses HDR to better emulate the IRL appearance of a CRT. Dolphin also uses HDR for better emulating the PAL and NTSC-J colorspaces.
That said, if you're not doing either I don't know what use it has, yeah.
I didn't know this was coming - I was still holding out for OSSC Pro, but it looks like this is the answer to all my prayers. Yay!
This $750 machine comes with the same cheap remote as those OTA DVRs on Amazon.