Introduction to the RetroTINK 4K - Upscaling HDMI Input and More! :: RGB326 / MY LIFE IN GAMING
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- The RetroTINK 4K ushers in yet another scaling revolution for those who crave the jump to 4K. In this episode, Coury gives an overview of the RetroTINK 4K and takes a look at how its analog video features are shaping up, before Try goes deep on exploring the new connection that has him most excited - the HDMI input.
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Coury Carlson
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My Life in Gaming makes documentaries, deep dives into retro console hardware, and more.
► Episode Chapters
00:00 - Intro
02:05 - Features Overview and Analog Input
10:33 - 720p and 1080p HDMI Input
16:56 - 480p HDMI Input
19:04 - Interpolation and Color Correction
23:28 - Introduction to Pre-Scaling
27:15 - Pre-Scaling In-Depth
31:44 - Pre-Scaling VS. Direct Video
34:00 - Pre-Scaling + Aspect Ratio Correction
36:09 - Decimation and Fixing Uneven Pixels
42:48 - HD Game Pre-Scalingpalooza!
51:15 - Connectivity Concerns and Final Thoughts - Hry
I am pleased to inform that Retrotink 4K is awarded the Blur Busters Approved Logo, after having worked with Mike. We even tested Retrotink 4K at 1080p 240Hz and 720p 360Hz for 4:1 and 6:1 custom BFI patterns! I recommend the brand new 240Hz OLEDs, if you would like to reduce even more motion blur with 240Hz BFI instead of 120Hz BFI.
Secret tip: You can use custom non-square resolutions in Linux-style ModeLines on SD card, such as 2560x720 at 240Hz, and let your 240Hz OLED do its stretch-zoom mode to fill the screen. (Some models have that). Works fine for aperturegrille CRT filters, since you got full horizontal resolution.
Me watching MLIG -
1) The guys talk about awesome new feature
2) Video shows two or more seemingly identical side by side screen caps
3) /me strokes beard and nods appreciatively
A lotta negativity in these comments, likely over the price, but the main thing people need to remember is that this product is intended for people who like upscaling original hardware, people who find the tinker process to be fun, and people who want minimal input lag and a large variety of options for 4k output
People are silly and defensive about not having the latest and greatest when it is not necessary at all to enjoy the hobby, its there for those who want to spend the money on it and eventual benefits as the technology spreads.
None of the benefits make the price any more palatable. Looks like a great product, even the best of its kind. And glad to see it's actually been shipping, unlike the vapour-ware that others have been going on about for a year or more.
Mike Chi downplays how awesome he is in some interviews I've seen, like this is just some hobby to him. That might be the case but the outcome is staggeringly impressive. I was so happy with the scaling in my old Retro Tink 2x Pro. The RetroTink 4K is like winning the lottery and finding out you don't have to pay any taxes on it.
The real takeaway from this, is that I really need to rewatch The Crow again!
MLiG VIdeos, are the only videos on CZcams where I open them and instantly push thumbs up! Always a pleasure!
This is such a comprehensive video on the product! Thank you both for your hard work to show the community as much as you could. Looking forward to this!
Outstanding work, Try, Coury. I'm still rocking the now good old Framemeister since the "master class" series of you guys. But now that I have a 4k TV and this video... :)
The decimation feature is incredible stuff. Thanks for showing in detail, MLiG.
Good job getting this out to us Try and Coury!
A DF Retro and the MLiG Tink4k video on the same day? I must be in heaven.
I would basically watch an unlimited amount of content, about playing HD games through the HDMI input on this thing. I just can't get enough of this type of content!
Best review of this product I have seen so far, you covered everything I needed to know and even more. Thank you
I could watch another 10 hours of this
Great video. These videos seem like so much work. Appreciate your time and effort.
Hey MliG, thank you for my deep learning over the years in Video signals and the possibility to make the most out of it!
Ever since I heard about the existence of this device, I eagerly awaited the in-depth MLiG breakdown.
Ive been runnin the ossc for a long time super excited to see more of the tink 4k in action!
Holy shit, it's here. THE video of the year, for this community.
I really hope the guys that make these products make a decent living. I'm quite happy with my cheaper Retrotink 2X, but there's no denying that these are passionate engineers!
At $750 a pop it has to at least be decent
@@liammorrison4284 I'm sure the upfront capital is huge, since he isn't taking pre-orders. Hopefully after he recoups we get some price cuts.
@@liammorrison4284 Good luck ever getting one. I'm sure it will be sold out for years...
@@liammorrison4284 probably less per unit profit than you’d think. The fpga chip alone costs $250 (it’s available on digikey), not to mention the rest of the board, molds for the plastic, r&d…
this is his side business, he's an electrical engineer and founded/works-at a company that makes EEG headsets company is called CGX. I think he's living well! His name is Mike Chi
You are real troopers for mentioning Panasonic. And I will mention that I have my Panasonic TV because I got a contact in the UK who bought it for me, and shipped to the States. With a little bit of extra payment, so can you! Panasonic does not overprice their products (usually), so it should be affordable to get a TV from UK or France that way. Just keep in mind you will need a transformer and fork adapter.
This hobby is Hella expensive
It's not if you know what your doing.
Only if you're a fanatic that thinks they need this kind of tech. The other end of hobby is totally free. Free emulators, "free" roms, all the crt shaders you could dream of (that look excellent when set up right.) The end result, i.e. what you see on your screen and how it feels, is totally identical. The hardcore retro enthusiasts are the same category at audiophiles and cinephiles who have convinced themselves they need to spend thousands. They don't.
@@BillB808Why what are you doing that is different?
My CRTs were cheaper.
It's an effing curse lol
so.much.information! Thank you for all of the work and the bit after the credits :)
This is pure peak nerdiness and I love it
9:42 Thank you for highlighting this feature.
My 42" plasma developed an issue this year and by some very slim good luck i was able to replace it. This allowed me to continue enjoying my Laserdisc & DVD collection with a magnificent scaler. So having this solution as a back option is very welcoming.
So again i say thank you, as sadly this is no doubt an aspect that most "gaming channels" wont focus much attention on.
Brilliant work as always 👏
They literally can’t receive enough props. I sincerely can’t wait for subsequent RetroTink4k videos, with deeper dives into various uses, both extremely common and general, like max processing enhancement to SD 24FPS film/footage/DVD’s….
… as well as deeper dives into several different niche video game examples, with both home consoles and even truly revolutionary retro/arcade projects like the MiSTer, and some of its most ambitious cores pushing the DE-10-Nano to its limit.
To see just how truly VERSATILE & incredibly range-y Mike Chi’s newest/best wonderbox really is !
Speaking of Plasma, RT4K is capable of reducing 50% motion blur for 120hz OLED TV's for 24 & 30fps content and even less blur for 144hz QD-OLED TV's, since it uses dual strobe BFI which doesn't exist for internal OLED BFI. These days, OLED BFI can only be used with 60fps video games. :P OLED needs all the help it can get with motion, and this is the only device to do it for movies and tv shows.
Another quality video as expected 😎👍
You guys rock! The LiG videos were my introduction into the retro gaming scene.
Just signed up for the waiting list. Hope to get my hands on this amazing product. 🙏 Awesome video as always. 🙂
Love the content! The RT4K is already amazing, imagine the new updates after a year of feedback from the community!
This is and awesome deep dive! Hopefully we'll see a Part 2 focusing on retro/non-hdmi consoles!
Thanks for the "HDMI In" coverage, I didn't realize the capabilities this has for the later systems.
Now we only need a way to simulate the geometry issues of my JVC CRT 🤡 awesome video! 😅
I can’t imagine playing my beloved GameCube in 4k :)
Awesome :)
F-Zero GX my man! 😁
All you'd be getting is slightly sharper pixels.
The use with 360, PS3 and Wii U seems like a really great selling point for this device. Thanks for taking the time to show it off!
This video makes me really want to get the Retrotink 4K. The idea of taking my favorite modern pixel art games like Sonic Mania or Kaze & The Wild Masks, and integer scaling them to 4K has me very intrigued.
[Try4ce] Kaze is an interesting case because the pixels are an unusually small scale. Pre-scaling sort of worked for it when I tested it, but not as well as others.
31:27 - Always pleased to see Light Crusader making an appearance. Underrated game.
I'm dying to get my hand on one! Gosh, the waiting is made more unbearable by excellent coverage from people such as you guys!
I have to say I love the Graphic that shows your setup, I really have to make one similar for my own setup (I made one for the Power connections when I moved to this house but need to update for the Video/Audio Connections as well.
Try and Coury, I honestly believe that without folks like you covering the Framemeister back in the day, and this channel existing, we might not have this amazing product coming out. I wanted a "Framemeister 4K" way back THEN and talked with some electronics friends, some of which worked at Extron even, for YEARS about making it because of you. I didn't have the technical chops to see it through myself, and they didn't have the understanding, drive or motivation I did. Luckily, Mike was inspired to do so, and I believe you guys played a huge part in that, so thank you to all of you. I am allergic to blur and this product will "cure" my inability to play retro games on my largest screens, and I can't wait. Thanks for all that you do.
I felt like I was in college again at a class on the first day yelling “slow down!!” 😂
Amazing device, the pre scale and HDR features for sure, but feels like a lot of work and learning that I don’t have time for. For now, I’m gonna stick with my RetroTNK2x Pro, but congrats to Mike Chi and the community for a great product!
I walk into a video scaler video and end up with a clip of Rhea Perlman in Canadian Bacon!? One more reason to love this channel.
On the topic of "weird use cases" - I don't know if this fits the description, but the PAL version of Paper Mario on N64 has uneven pixels and it drives me crazy. Apparently, instead of adding more pixels to avoid PAL bars, Nintendo opted to just slighty stretch the picture vertically which creates a very odd looking image when presented with pure pixels via an HDMI mod. I'd love to know if the Tink 4K could handle this and maybe fix the uneven pixels back to being even.
Another thing would be the Steam Deck, which only outputs in full color range. My capture card, for example, only accepts limited color range, so the blacks are crushed when displaying Steam Deck content. Is the Tink 4K able to convert the color space to limited?
[Try4ce] So the TINK will handle limited and full range correctly, but at launch it will probably only have full range output itself. We ran into some capture issues with the lack of a limited range option as well. We and a couple of others have insisted to Mike that a Limited Range output option is essential, and I think he'll do it. So assuming that feature comes around, then the TINK should convert your Steam Deck's range correctly. Just not at the moment.
@@mylifeingaming Then I'll keep an eye on upcoming updates in that regard. Thanks!
This is one of the best videos i watched in 2023!
One thing to note regarding Axiom Verge: hidden worlds do a scanline effect that intensifies as you get closer to its entrance. The CRT options on the Tink may interfere with that subtle hint.
Damn new My Life in Gaming episode sheeeesh 🔥
LOL throwback at the end there: "The Retrotink-5x was the Retrotink-6x all along?!"
Yeah, I actually ended up looking up what 8640x4860 resolution would be, and it lead me to believe that 8640 is the vertical aspect ratio of 16k resolution (which it does exist, although not many electronic devices support it yet, it'll be another 10 to 20 years or so before we even see 16k devices, let alone 10k and 12k to be used by the consumers as well). But then, 8640x4860 is a perfect 16:9 aspect ratio that leads to either perfect integer 8k scaling to 16k scaling, meaning the RetroTink 4k can be upgraded in the future through firmware to handle 8K+16K resolution screens/monitors/tvs, etc.
Thanks so much for the deep dive. Keep it up. Would love to see RT4K's pre-scaling with the X360's Cave ports, or HD-based shmups in general.
[Try4ce] So much of that depends on how the source is scaled. I don't have the Cave shooters, but I did try seeing if I could get good results with Contra and Super C on 360. It seems like it could be possible, but it's challenging due to the free-form scaling of those ports.
The NES and SNES Classic segment was a huge surprise to me. I’m living abroad with only access to those consoles right now, and was wondering if the RetroTINK 4K could be used to improve them, but… nobody would be crazy enough to try that, right? MLiG is like, “Hold my beer”.
Thanks for the heads up about the HDCP stripping for the PS3 and PSTV. I totally forgot about that for the PS3, and I had no idea about the PSTV. That's really good to know for when I can finally get a RetroTink 4K. 🍻
56min and "I would not consider it as a review" haha
That's awesome the dedication you all put into the video reviews, despite you not calling it a review.
They put truth before face. Gotta love it.
I love this show!
I'm going to need to watch this video at least 3 more times.
Love the ending. Hoping I don’t have trouble grabbing a 4K at launch.
For the record: _Freedom Planet 2_ (whenever it comes to consoles) will use the 360p pipeline, since its internal resolution is 640×360. Nice video!
Amazing first look! Might have to import this at some point 😅
been waiting for this one. it’s fucking time lads
Awesome video! I'd like to see some 3DS TVKit gameplay and suggestions, when you have time.
The part of this that is really nice is that with the 4K, you have the ability to use a Carby or GCHD without being limited to 480p output on your display device.
The evolution of this tech is incredible. I'm almost convinced that the wait for a perfect scaler is over. After John Linneman discussed the differences of PS3 games dependent on your output resolution, I'm convinced that era systems should be scaling 720p only for the best framerates possible, and a clean 3X scale. The jury might still be out on older 480i/p systems. The lack of clean scaling to 4K is going to hurt those a lot more... Still, I'm excited by these prospects.
Well said brother !
You mentioned the Carby and native HDMI mods paired with the RT4K. Have you had a chance to repeat the test with the various analog to digital HDMI adapters for the PS2, Wii, Dreamcast and Xbox? I'd be particularly interested with how it handles 240p/288p from PS1 and Virtual Console content outputting through those adapters. I did a whole video on upscaling such content using cheap scalers with HDMI inputs, so I'd be interested to see how the RT4K handles it.
The RetroTINK-4K working as a BFI implementer is a real life saver. So many of today's 4K TVs don't support BFI at 120 Hz. Or they remove that in firmware updates. Such as my Samsung Q90B only supporting BFI at 30 Hz and 60 Hz, not 120 Hz. My Brother's recent purchase of the TCL R655 DOES support BFI at 120 Hz. So the RT4K is the one-stop shop for all things retro using BFI. Just a shame I can't really use it as much for passing through modern games to use 120 Hz BFI. Unless I feed it 1080p 60 Hz.
Can't wait to get one next year
Would also like an end to the fussin and a feudin. That said I would love a morph comparison when you get one!
ahhh, my head. Eventually I'll find some reason to need one of these, but I just don't want to mess with all of those settings right now.
Don't worry! It comes with a comprehensive set of ready-made profiles for basically any console you want to throw at it!
Finally ordered one this weekend, looking forward to getting it all setup. Gonna need a switcher solution though.
My PS3 and Vita TV are ready. Especially for my PSP collection.
The post credit scene got me good 🤣
Mike Chi going for that generational wealth play
I really, really need to stop watching videos about the Retrotink 4K. I don't have the willpower to avoid getting one!!!!
Edit: By the way, incredible video. Excellent video footage, and I really love the section about pre-scaling modern pixel art and retro style games.
Mike did a restock today and I finally treated myself to a tink4k, time to rewatch this video and begin to wait patiently for my new toy to arrive!
Same. I kept refreshing the page and managed to get one just a minute before it was supposed to go live (2:59pm cst, 12:59pm pt).
I love this channel. And while I can appreciate the dedication for the Retrotink, I find that retrogaming is becoming something else. If you were born in the mid 70s you basically got to experience everything from the the core beginnings, where RF connections were the norm and if you had a TV with composite, you were balling because most TVs did not have it as standard until the late 80s. I did not own a TV with composite video until 1988. Retrogames games were meant to be played on a CRT, and while they will all disappear one day, to pay this much to play them in 4k resolution kinda defeats the purpose.
Any content beyond 480i to me is no longer part of the genre. Once stuff went to 480/720p it no longer was sprite generated for the most part. Polygons took over and I could see the appeal using this tech as I think that era of content looks like poop in its native resolution. Thanks again for the coverage. I will stick to playing 240p content in a CRT where it was meant to be played.
@@Bpm121 some great games there. Super Bomberman and Starfox are awesome.
15:21 Aaah, 007 Blood Stone... Such an underrated game!
The only HDMI device I'm super interested in using the RetroTINK 4K with is the GameCube and a Carby. My TV has very perceptible input lag for 480p content, so I'm real excited about this in that instance. I don't care about the integer scaling; any sort of interpolation would be completely acceptable. Your Bilinear Sharp results look great.
I heard that Skies of Arcadia music oh man what a RPG
You can already do 30hz BFI flicker on PCSX2.
Retrotink 4K might have such a feature(Mark even said that the tink can do 18hz flicker for black and white silent movies).
I would not recommend it however since it is extremely flickery(16ms black frame which is twice as flickery as 60hz flicker),
With +1000hz Phosphor Fade emulation in the future we will be able to simulate different kinds of phosphor decays(like slower ones) to get a sort of compromise to where the double image effect is mitigated like in consumer CRTs with slower phosphors or maybe even find a middle ground with 30hz flicker with a lot of tinkering.
Though by the time we get to that, hardware might get powerful enough to where Mike may be able to implement lagless. artifactless interpolation. Who knows, may even turn out to be good enough to interpolate Starfox to 60fps with no side effects?
Yes but remember BFI is not limited to 16ms; Retrotink 4K supports 360Hz+ BFI too! (2.7ms adjustable persistence steps for 30Hz and 60Hz BFI). Retrotink 4K can do 30Hz BFI for 30fps material, if you can stand the flicker. You can even adjust (1,0,0,0) vs (1,1,0,0) vs (1,1,1,0) BFI sequences to attenuate flicker, if your output is 120Hz! Your BFI total persistence adjustability is only limited by outputs' minimum refreshtime.
Amazing content as always. So, some TVs these days aren’t amazing at upscaling things like broadcast TV or low bitrate streaming. Would a Retrotink potentially assist in cleaning that stuff up? Or potentially make certain artifacts more noticeable for something like an Apple TV or Fire Stick?
[Try4ce] It's hard to hide things like compression artifacts without simulating some analog characteristics to mask it, like CRT masks or the IIR LPF setting. It can look really cool, but if it's not retro content, then it might be a bit of a visual disconnect too.
Great video! Can you guys please add info about the games that feature in your videos? Platform and title, please? I've watched many videos on this channel which have footage of games that I've never seen before and I had many 'wow that looks nice!' moments but then I carry on watching and forget about it. Please consider including a little band at the bottom or something with the details of the games when they appear on screen. Thanks!
That prescaling stuff is mindblowing but also really confusing to follow! I hope there can be a wiki or something that can keep track of setting various games up for it. A bummer it can't work on EVERYTHING, but I'm curious about how this can help for Konami's Castlevania, Contra, and Arcade Anniversary Collections. I'm also suddenly thinking about how I can use the 4K to make various retro games on my PC / Steam Deck look better/more accurate.
I play Genesis and TG16 via RF adapter still. This looks awsome!
44:31 There's a ReShade pack that makes MM9/10 on PC look pretty damn good which is what I used when I finally played through them from start to finish. You can find it poking around on the Steam discussion forums. Only thing I remember thinking looked off after the mod was some text in MM10's menu that incidentally had been altered specifically for the Legacy Collection port, but the in-game stuff looked just fine.
At least that's what I remember, it's been a couple years at this point.
About Scott Pilgrim, wouldn't it pre-scale correctly with 1/5 in 1080p? Its native resolution is 384x216. We chose 216p so that it'd integer scale 5x perfectly... Unless we messed something up with the rendering code.
[Try4ce] Thanks for pointing this out! You led me to investigate further and I've figured out that the reason I thought it couldn't be pre-scaled is due to some curious behavior with the Switch version of Scott Pilgrim, and it's something that I'll need to keep in mind when testing games for pre-scaling in the future. Sorry it's wordy, but here's what I figured out:
Up until recently, I believed that Switch games could only have a single rendering setup for docked play, usually prioritizing image quality at 1080p output, and then if you set your system to 720p, it simply performs a basic soft downscale of the 1080p render. Yes, there are different setups between handheld and docked, but docked play is not like PS3 where some games might do a heavier or lighter rendering load depending on what resolutions you've set in the console dashboard (as far as I know). However, since nearest neighbor scaling on the RetroTINK 4K can often make the rendering setup easier to discern by eye, I noticed that some games, like Blazing Chrome, actually switch between two different rendering modes if you switch between 720p and 1080p while the game is running. In Blazing Chrome, you get sharp pixels in both modes, though the 1080p version is much more uneven (Blazing Chrome has a few rogue lines even in 720p mode, but with a 240p pre-scale and basic decimation, it's perfect). That's a rarer case though, from my observations, anyway. Most pixel art games that aren't 360p or 180p will look sharp at the resolution they target for an integer scale, and blurrier for the other resolution.
Scott Pilgrim on Switch is different, and this is why I made a partial mistake here (no idea if you had anything to do with the current-gen ports!). So in Scott Pilgrim, you get sharp pixels ONLY on the resolution setting selected when booting the game. At 720p, the pixels are hard-edged, but uneven. However, if you set to 1080p while the game is running, then the pixels are still uneven, but now they're soft-edged. So at the time, I drew the conclusion that the art must've been designed for 720p since it was originally on PS3/360, but it was uneven anyway.
But now that you've prompted me to check again, I've discovered that Scott Pilgrim can also be sharp at 1080p, and with perfectly evenly scaled pixels to boot, but you have to boot the game in 1080p to begin with! If you then switch to 720p under these circumstances, then it's got the typical softer downscale. So yeah, it turns out that changing resolutions on the fly while checking for pre-scaling USUALLY works, but if you end up with no good result, it could still be worth checking when booting the game from the other resolution. Basically, what had happened was, I was testing something else at 720p before Scott Pilgrim, and thus, I booted Scott Pilgrim in 720p mode, which kept it locked to a mode that wouldn't look ideal when changing to 1080p unless I rebooted the game, which I didn't know would change anything. So yeah, this seems to be a somewhat uncommon setup for Switch game behavior as far as I can tell, so it's interesting to learn that this is possible.
A 216p pre-scale will not work on Scott Pilgrim when it's in the uneven "blurry" 1080p mode that I was originally testing in, as the wrong lines are sampled in places, and the soft edge on character sprites would also sometimes be sampled as well. It does work, however, as you suggested, when booting up in 1080p to begin with! That said, while it looks gorgeous pre-scaled in still shots, Scott Pilgrim is not an ideal pre-scale candidate, as the camera motion isn't bound by the pixel size, and character movement is the same - players and enemies can stop "between" background pixels. This sometimes works for pre-scaling just fine, as long as the pixels are hard-edged, but what ruins it more often than not is that the camera motion effectively becomes decimated in a way it wasn't designed for, becoming jerky. Scott Pilgrim isn't the worst offender in this case, but the pre-scaled camera motion appears just unsmooth enough when moving vertically that I'd probably not choose to play that way. If pixels go "off-grid" horizontally, it's usually not really a problem, as long as everything from the source is evenly sized. Examples that I found to work well under "smooth motion outside the pixel grid" circumstances included Shovel Knight, The Messenger, and Super Mario Maker 2.
I dunno if there's an industry term for this, but the way I've always put it is that some pixel art games "adhere to the pixel grid" and others do not. I get the temptation for smoother camera motion, character movement, and particle effects that can go "off-grid... I think it can work when it's a conscious creative choice... but I've always preferred the look of pixel grid adherence, and have been happy with how Tribute handles this ever since I was blown away by Panzer Paladin. ;) So in the case of Scott Pilgrim, due to the off-grid motion, I'd probably just play with the nice 4K sharp pixel upgrade and not deal with pre-scaling, but now I'm glad to know that I have to boot the game in 1080p to get evenly sized pixels!
I'd like to do more content looking at pre-scaling for pixel art games in the future, so I'm glad you've prodded me toward figuring this issue out! Love your work, can't wait for what's next!
@@mylifeingaming Wow, thanks for the detailed reply!
First, no we were not involved in the "modern" release of Scott Pilgrim, so I was not aware of these quirks with the Switch version. I only worked on the original (PS3/XBox 360) version, which also has a bunch of quirks... And you are absolutely right, even though we did use 216p, sprite/camera positions did not snap to the pixel grid. It even has smaller pixel sizes in some menus :/ Stuff we make sure not to do nowadays at Tribute (though these things can totally be acceptable as artistic choices). As a side note, even though we still use various resolutions for our games, working in 180p is my personal favorite choice. It has a total number of pixels really close to 256x224 (like the NES/SNES/Genesis (in H32 mode)) which creates the most authentic retro look!
I'm super flattered that you like Panzer Paladin so much by the way! Likewise, I'm always looking forward to your videos. I love the long-form format and they're always of the highest quality. Cheers!
[Try4ce] 180p is definitely a fun middle-ground between handheld and console vertical resolutions! It sorta gives the player the freedom to decide whether it feels to them like an NES or GBC game, or a SNES/Genesis or GBA game. That's why when I briefly showed Panzer Paladin here, I did a scanlines shot for one and a LCD shot for the other.
@@mylifeingaming Custom ModeLines can let the Retrotink 4K accept some weird input modes and output weird output modes like 1234x567 at 112Hz. You can even BFI 53Hz with a 116Hz or 232Hz signal, and even encapsulate it inside VRR to allow custom fixed Hz in any display's VRR range (which works great with LG TVs that don't support custom-Hz BFI). Also check my other comments too, about custom BFI going all the way to 360Hz+ for 6:1 custom patterns for 60Hz material or 7:1 custom patterns for 50Hz material. More Hz creates superior BFI, e.g. 75% blur reduction with 3 black frames + 1 visible frame, on the new 240Hz OLED.
In the future, I may work on a shader/FPGA based CRT electron beam simulator (rolling BFI with phosphor fadebehind and gamma-corrected gradient overlaps between adjacent refresh cycles), but that will only look accurate on OLED and only 240Hz+
Must be amazing to watch a 4k screen.
The diagram of source hookups has me having flashbacks of drawing logic blocks in Logisim back in the day lol
HYPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
I think I zoned out a few times lmao
I'm getting one of these to connect a MiSTer to. Should be a near perfect retro setup. I'll try connecting things like Switch to it, but Switch is easy enough to emulate now at higher internal resolution.
Videos like this are interesting to have on in the background and to key in on for certain things, but it proves to me that these types of scalers are way too complicated for me to have a simple way to enjoy these games. I have CRTs for now, but I don't envy the future in which I might have to get one of these.
What an absolutely amazing deep dive into the new Retrotink. Can someone clarify this for me? When using the Mister, will I need to change my settings on a per game basis to have CRT modes be displayed correctly? Or will I simply have to create per core settings and switch between these as I switch cores? Still trying to fully wrap my head around it, but it appears that I no longer might have to use CRT monitors anymore to have an authentic looking and feeling retro gaming experience.
That is an amazing system 🎉
I have my MISTer connected to my TINK 4K and running at 4K. I've noticed the brightness keeps adjusting during games, especially when a new screen appears. I don't know how to stop it. I have HDR10 on. It doesn't happen when I use my Super Famicom via RGB Scart. Any help is appreciated.
[Try4ce] You probably have dynamic tone mapping set on your TV's HDR/brightness settings. Try turning that off, or setting HGIG instead. I used dynamic tone mapping for a brief time, because it generally looks cool in modern content (though technically inaccurate) but I also started to notice the brightness adjustment in retro games in a way that annoyed me, so I went back to HGIG.
If it's not that, do you have VRR on? Some screens can flicker in darker shades when VRR is engaged.
@@mylifeingaming
Thanks a million. It was dynamic tone mapping on the TV. Everything's running well now.
I got my RetroTink 4K today. I got very good results from my RGB-modded Famicom, so-so results from my Super Famicom and good results with a DVD player using RGB Scart. My problem is all HDMI sources are showing as scrambled at 1080P@60 and 4K@60. It's a bit puzzling. They display and you can tell what they are but the text can't be read and everything is blocky and distorted. I've tried using a variety of cables. Any help is much appreciated.
[Try4ce] You may need to disable HDCP on the HDMI devices, if possible. Or use an HDCP stripping splitter. The RetroTINK 4K blocks HDCP devices and displays them as low resolution.
@@mylifeingaming
Thank You. I figured-out my HDMI port is OK which is a great relief. I did a bit of reading yesterday about HDCP.
Really interested to see how sea of stars would look with those beautiful scanlines
I just want to downscale my Atari 2600+ and Evercade 1080p to my 480p crt and lcd 4:3 tv . Using hdmi to component converter after the retrotink 4K . Love these products
Look up the "3D Vision fix" mod for the PC version of Mega Man Legacy Collection 2. It only works at 1920x1080 and the integer scaling feature is kinda broken in 10, but you can get a centered, unscaled 256x224 picture for both 9 and 10 (externally upscaling that will make the collection interface near-impossible to navigate, though)
Also, if either if you have an old DOS machine with an S3 card, I recommend the following games for testing PC compatibility: Pinball Illusions (320x200, 640x350, 640x480, and 800x600), Jazz Jackrabbit/Epic Pinball/Silverball/Extreme Pinball (320x200p70 for menus/world intro, tweaked 320x200p60 in-game), Quake/Duke3D (VESA modes that can include oddities like 320x400), and PacPC2/Ms. PacPC in fullscreen mode (add "f" at the command line, outputs a strange mode that not all VGA cards work with).
@@Captain_Dunsel yeah, as just alone Jazz Jackrabbit and all of the pinball games from Epic do a good amount of modeswitching.
Is there a feature to weave 50i into 25p? Will there be? I have a few PAL DVDs that were authored very lazily, so the footage has to be deinterlaced.
Thanks for this. I'm considering buying the Tink4K just for the ability to upscale my 1080p consoles with nearest neighbor upscaling. There's this pervasive myth online that 4K TVs cleanly upscale 720p/1080p content, but sadly, that's not the case
This seems like it does everything I could want in an upscaler. I'm curious if it fully supports variable refresh rates, which I put some hope on handling the bizarre timings of a lot of retro systems. Either case, after upgrading my TV, I intend to save up for this monster, but for now, I will get an OSSC as a stopgap until that time. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why it's as expensive as it is, but it's not something I can get AND get a new 4K TV with all the features I want it to have, so that's how I intend to do it, and then reuse the OSSC on another TV once I do get the 4K.
Watching this video on my LED phone at 144p just as the developers intended.
it is interesting the retroTINK 4k can already deal with the MisTer native output for upscaling now if it could only identify what core was loaded it could load the presets needed on boot of the game making the entire thing plug and play best experience.
this is all really hammering out retro gaming onto 4k screens. now the mister does need a second revision for power so we can get a N64 core working flawlessly since after that PS2,GC and xbox and onward can be dealt with via storage mods and has HDMI( or equal choice) thus giving easy clean feeds.
it really feels like we are on the very cusp plug and play retro gaming greatness.
Look up the MARS FPGA.
Mike has asked the mister team to implement data in their output so he could easily pull that and set settings, but they've been sluggish or just won't implement it
Out of curiosity, given how the decimation feature works, would the Saturn version of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night not still look bad, due to how the scaling is performed on the sprites themselves, making the duplicated columns not line up all the time?
[Try4ce] I suspect that would be the case yeah. The wide/thin pixels move, rather than are bound to specific columns.
It wouldn't work BECAUSE it's performed on the sprites themselves. With normal scrolling shimmer, the extra lines are on a fixed position in the output. But with "Saturn of the Night", they'll be moving, so it wouldn't work.