Why Retro Consoles Need A Scaler
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Even though many flat-panel TV’s have analog inputs, you shouldn’t use them for retro video game consoles - Those were designed for TV and movies only. This video will show you why, as well as show some alternatives at all price points.
Here’s links to all products mentioned (please assume all are affiliate links):
RetroTINK Products (all): www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html
OSSC: www.retrorgb.com/ossc.html
GBS-Control: www.retrorgb.com/gbs-control-...
PS2 Component Video Cables: amzn.to/47f3Pb8
OSSC Pro: retrorgb.link/osscpro
RAD2x: www.retrorgb.com/rad2x.html
Wii2HDMI: retrorgb.link/wii2hdmi
Xbox2HDMI: retrorgb.link/xbox2hdmi
GameCube HDMI: retrorgb.link/sagcarby
Building a CRT Cart: • Building A Retro Cart
Lag Testing Retro Scalers: • Lag Testing Retro Scalers
Mythbusting Display Lag: • Mythbusting Display Lag
The Worst Gaming Scaler: • The Worst Scaler In Re...
Displaced Gamers 240p: • The History of 240p
Please consider supporting this channel via monthly support services, tips, or even just by using our affiliate links to purchase things you were already going to buy anyway, at no extra cost to you: www.retrorgb.com/support.html
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All equipment used to shoot this video can be found here: www.amazon.com/shop/retrorgb
00:00 Intro
00:46 CRT’s Instead
01:41 What’s the problem?
07:57 BAD Solutions
10:03 Recommended
16:16 Conclusion - Hry
The hdr injection on retrotink 5x / 4k that emulates the phosphorous glow of a crt is magical.
I found crt tv around the corner from my house. A landlord had stuff on the curb. She was so nice she gave me the remote. Ps2 is connected. I felt like a kid.
Fwiw, lots of modern TVs have started getting rid of analog inputs, so with them a scaler or converter of some type is practically necessary to play older video games.
Technically you could use a composite to hdmi adapter that doesn’t scale. It’ll be horrible but will work on modern tvs
@sgdude1337 Those aren't a think. All composite to HDMI adapters are like the one I showed in this video.
@@RetroRGB I know they’re horrible but I thought they’d simply digitize the 15khz signal which your tv is still incorrectly interpreting as 480i. If you fed one of these devices hypothetically to a hdmi to component transcoder and then to a retrotink 2x pro wouldn’t you get a correct image? I thought the converters are a scam because they don’t help your end result but is it the converter itself changing it to 480i not the tv?
I've never seen a composite to HDMI converter that simply passes through the image and digitizes it without scaling. Out of all the devices I've ever tested, every one ONLY scales it, as well as treats it like 480i.
Also, even if this theoretical device existed, you'd still be relying on your TV's HDMI input interpreting 240p correctly, which most do not; I test this regularly with my Time Sleuth.
I'm not trying to pick on you, but I think you're misunderstanding what some of those composite to HDMI converters do.
@@RetroRGB thanks for explaining. I’ve never used one so I just assumed they passed on 240p to your tv which the tv then handles incorrectly so the end result was the same. What about converting component to hdmi without scaling? If the tv you have happens to accept it, which I think some models do, it’ll technically work without a “scaler” even though it’ll look incorrect right (as the tv is going to interpret this as 480i). I was just thinking that it is possible to avoid using an external scaler on a tv for 240p, but that it would still be horrible. I have a tink 5x for what it’s worth
Bought a Retrotink 5X as a birthday present to myself, I wonder how I ever lived without it.
The Retrotink 4K is $750. Ouch.
It's a fairly new Device.
Man, I am thinking of getting one for my birthday early next year. Do you use it on PS2 or OG Xbox?
@@user-wi3tc1ek8f Both.
I bought the retrotink 2x pro. It may not be as configurable as the 5x or support resolutions higher than 480i, but for $139 it was a great investment imo. My Sony 4k OLED tv only has hdmi and a video jack for a composite adapter, so for retro consoles, my only option was composite, and the composite video on this tv has a ton of input lag unless you put it in game mode, which causes a jumpy image for some reason. So with the 2x pro, being able to have a decent composite output as well as the superior s video and component is a game changer. I never bothered with a scaler before this tv because my old 1080p Samsung not only had better composite video with no noticeable lag, but it had component as well.
01:05 - thanks for the tips! I was only seeing high-priced CRTs on eBay, but I checked a local electronics recycling event this morning in the hope of finding any CRT at all. The only one they had turned out to be a 20" Sony Trinitron KV-20S40! The worker said they aren't supposed to to let people take the electronics, but he let me have it for a $15 "donation." I gave him an extra $5 for the effort. The TV works perfectly, and is just what I needed to test the Intellivision I just finished refurbishing. I bought it new in 1981, and it probably hasn't run in close to 40 years.
For the longest time I didn't have any idea upscalers were a thing and just plugged directly into the TV. My Wii looked perfectly fine, but other older consoles like especially my N64 and for some reason the WiiU in Wii mode looked absolutely terrible. These days I use a retrotink 5x. Wayyyyyy better.
60 or 50 Hz on the CRT ?
Retro consoles don't need a scaler, they need a CRT 😍
I'm glad you mentioned this in the first minutes 👍
So I’m not a worse Mario Tennis player because I’m older, it’s just I don’t have a scaler! This explains everything
I still have that same Olivia TV. It was my first HD set. 1366x768 native, 720p, 1080p would down scale. It still works, has a VGA input and had a Dreamcast married to it for years. It sucks by todays standards. I would never use for anything more than troubleshooting now but I can't throw it out because it still works. LOL
This video makes a great intro to scalers for anyone new to the scene. It provides just the right amount of content without getting too overwhelming for newbies. And also shows scalers from different price points. And also why you'd want to avoid any cheap option. Highly recommend for anyone that is planning to hook up any retro console to their flat screens.
The GBS-Control was a lifesaver at work this weekend. I needed to run a conductor camera to two screens, but the DLSR the lighting tech brought was way too laggy over its HDMI output. Ran an analog security camera into the GBS-C, converted to HDMI and then sent to my splitters and it worked out great! It was only black & white as I guess the GBS-C is component only, but that was totally fine in this case.
"DSLR"
Fantastic video Bob! This is a very important video for newcomers and veterans alike! I cannot wait to pick up a Tink4K when the work season starts up again next year!
Great wrap up of the last few years of evolution in this field. It’s Amazing how different it is than a few years ago
Thank you for the explanations!
Your commitment to helping the community is worthy of admiration!! Great job!!
Thank you!
This was a very well laid out and paced explanation. Thanks for making this 😊
THANK YOU for this video, specifically for the link to a tested, quality, Wii2HDMI adapter. This whole time I thought Pokemon Colosseum was blurry because of the old technology, when it was actually my TV poorly scaling the image.
Excellent, excellent video Bob! Definitively the best introduction video for those who aren't familiarized with upscalers. I personally have been using an OSSC for over 3 years now, and I'm still very happy with it. Especially after making the v1.06 mod on it. Thanks for all you do on the retro video gaming community!
Thanks! And yeah, all these years later, the OSSC is still awesome. We’re lucky Markus continues to support it with free updates!
Awesome video!! It's great that you didn't go into all technical details and kept it short and concise! Well done! I'll make sure to promote it instead of trying to explain this myself in a poor way.😀👍🙏
Wonderful video, Bob! I really appreciate all the effort you put into them. I got into retro gaming only within the last couple of years, so your content has been immensely helpful.
FWIW, I agree with you about TVs still sucking for gaming. I still think they're not great even today for modern gaming. Most of them have awful color settings in "game" mode, where everything looks dull with poor contrast. I usually have to redo all the settings to get the picture quality to look good even with a PS5 or Switch, never mind all the problems that come with retro gaming. Speaking of, I use an RT5X Pro, but Sony TVs annoyingly don't support *any* 1440p resolutions. It's fine for 5th gen and earlier consoles, but GC/PS2/Xbox don't look nearly as sharp as they could. I was considering an LG OLED instead (which do support 1440p), but they have awful SDR support-the max brightness is very low and the colors always look a bit washed out. That means it sucks for gaming on a Switch (and, to be honest, most PS5 games have bad HDR implementation anyway).
I'm hoping someday gamers can have good TVs lol.
That is definitely my goal when the 4K is back in stock. I can see how most retro console can work with it, but it was the Atari consoles that I was unsure of based on everything I’ve read and seen. So glad you have a video coming out about this. I enjoy your videos immensely and have learned a lot!
Thank you!
I'm always impressed by how good you are at this.
So grateful you put this out, I have an old Vizio with component inputs and been wondering if they're worth try to make work
This video couldn't have come at a better time! very helpful thank you!
Nice one Bob, excellent summary of the problems and current solutions !
I actually tested a Gamecube by RGB a while ago and was very impressed with the signal processing. And this was a basic LG 22 inch TV, though it does have inputs for everything, I have never seen anything like it.
Dreamcast on composite looked horrible, so there's also that.
That said, such good signal processing for a 480i signal made me really look into buying a scaler. After watching your videos, will probably get a GBS-C, as I want proper 480i deinterlacing for PS2.
50 or 60 hz ?
Nice and thorough Bob! Great video. I can't wait for the retrotink4k!
Awesome informative video. I personally started by buying a few good/big CRT monitors, firstly because I like lightgun games, and secondly because they're cheap if you know where/what to look for. That allows me to gradually save up to eventually buy an upscaler, and currently I've set my target at the Retrotink 5X to use with composite and RGB SCART inputs. I've also got one of those clonky SCART to HDMi chinese adapters, it was quickly evident that I would only use it for testing purposes and nothing else 🙂
Check out the Sinden Lightgun. It works perfectly on a modern tv…
What an amazing discovery your channel has been for me! This is pure retro magic and interesting and serious testing. New sub!
Thank you!
@@RetroRGB Greetings from Chile c:
Wish I woulda seen this two days ago before I ordered a Pound adapter 😅. Guess it’s time to return. Thank you for educating me.
I want to thank you. If you can see, I retro stream on one of the crappy hardwares and even ElGato. I was searching for the right tool and every review I saw was absolute garbage. AI has taken over and it has no idea. Yours was on point, thorough, and got me the answers I need. I hope the RT4K does the trick because I have old footage on Beta cassettes that I used to film and VHS too. Now I may spend more, but I’m finally getting what I wanted. Fist bump and if you’re ever in my area I’ll buy you a beer! 😎🍷
Thanks very much!
Fantastic video!
I'm planning on getting the 4k retrotink when it releases, I can't wait!
Thanks for all your work giving us the best gaming experience!
Great video on the subject. CRT screen emulation is the only way I tend to play games at least through an emulator however my Wii goes on my actual CRT screen
I'm already sharing this video. This is an amazing intro to scalers imo
Thank you!
Dude, you seem such a nice and genuine person. Thanks for the video 😁
Thank you! :)
I currently switched from a RetroTink2X into a GBS-Control and ESPECIALLY for my N64 it's a godsend as games like Resident Evil 2 has little to no issues with the resolution stuff, but still I want eventually to upgrade to a RetroTink5X or heck... maybe the 4K... time will tell, but in the meantime I can use the GBS-Control along with my RetroTink-SCART (the later I can only use it on my SNES and Sega Genesis... without doing modding of course... which reminds me that I also have to upgrade those cables in the future).
Bless you for this.
Sadly for space reasons I had to ditch my old CRT. I am currently without a TV entirely, first world poverty go brr, but when I finally do get one again it will likely be a modern small lightweight flat. So one of these gizmos will be fantastic for my old consoles.
Love the brief, yet entirely relevant description of options. Not sure I would have added anything else and said anything less. Everything you said I was like yep. Having seen the thumbnail, I thought ok I hope he at least mentions CRTs as an option and BAM first thing you dive into is CRT. Love it. Well done, Bob. You know your stuff and I trust your work 100%.
Thanks so much!
I’m a big fan of Rad2x adapters. I have a few mates who like playing their old N64 or PS1 and that’s it. If someone is only interested in one console then I think it’s the way to go. Cheap and super simple to use.
Can't seem to buy one from the site because it keeps demanding I choose a color but it doesn't show any options
Looks like they are out of stock atm. Sign up to their newsletter and you'll get an email when a new batch is coming in. Seems to be only happen a few times a year.
Not sure about other models but I don't recommend them for PAL PS2s at the very least. While the colour was better than the random amazon adapter I had lying around, it introduced a lot of flicker to text. OPL in particular was so nauseating to use that I've bit the bullet and getting a Retro GEM installed. NTSC games faired a bit better but not to an acceptable degree given the price.
First of all, great job on the video. It can be used as a definitive “get up to speed on the topic quick” video for someone completely in the dark.
Edit: I will check out your intro video on the Tink4k and look forward to more of your videos soon!
I'll have more RT4K videos soon. Respectfully, if you already have an awesome setup, you might not need to upgrade. Maybe check out my current RT4K intro video and see if that helps?: czcams.com/video/E3ep6sw0c8Y/video.html
@@RetroRGB Turns out I was an idiot and didn't see on Mike's video that his Tink5X video was upscaled through OBS after the fact, so it's not the comparison I thought it was. I went back and checked your video closer and just that few seconds where you showed Luigi up close with the Tink4k compared to the TV upscaling the 5X was exactly what I was looking for. Yeah in just that small part I saw a night/day difference.
That's on me for not checking the details of what I was looking at so my bad. I'll be among the earliest Tink4k orders and really looking forward to getting the device and more coverage as we get closer.
I imported a framemeister for 400 bucks years ago and it is glorious!
just ordered a Retrotink 5x last week, this video is perfect after the deep dive rabbit hole I got into looking for the best cables for every console, ended up going with HD Retrovision and Prism cables (GameCube), and retro gaming cables for N64 s-Video
All EXCELLENT choices!
@@RetroRGBwhats the best for around 100euro?
Excellent, excellent, excellent summary. I'm so glad I watched this instead of spending hours reading forum arguments and scrolling the technical specs of dozens of equivalent products. Thanks for path forward lol.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you man, this is the best video on this topic out here.
Great video Bob. For those looking for CRTs definitely check your local recycling centers. At my local one there are Sony WEGAs and other high end TVs
Great times for regular OSSC (1.6 boards mainly) with availability of doing fw 1.xx update (1.08 ftm) !
Aight connecting my PS5 to a RF only CRT thanks!
As a perpetual cheapskate, it's the GBS-Control and also "just having a CRT" for me. If I was more flippant with money, the tink-5x is incredible. Mike seriously took everything the GBS-C did better than the 2x as a challenge and made what I consider the perfect scaler...just too rich for my blood!
Absolutely love my Retrotink 2x-pro.
Great video. Most of subbed already know everything you posted but this is probably the best video for anyone new to the retro scene as it lets them learn why they need a scaler, what products are snake oil, and more importantly why you actually don't need to shell out a ton to enjoy your retro games
Great info, thank you for your time and effort on this.
Thanks for watching!
Great primer, my man. Thank you
This cleared up a LOT for me
This was really helpful, thank you! Learned so much more about game video.
Thanks very much! Hopefully the links on retrorgb.com can help as well.
Yep, that's absolutely spot on Bob 👍 As always you've pitched it perfectly, not ever talking down to people and always being super respectful in the way you explain stuff. This will be my new "goto" video to share with any mates or whatever who are just getting into retro gaming and want an absolute beginner, no BS explanation of how/why/what to get them started. Superb dude 👊😎
Thank so much for the kind words. I really do try my best to be welcoming. LOL, unless we're talking about Pound cables :)
Great video Bob! Thanks a Lot!
I definitely need to do this. The only console I have any digital converter on is the GameCubes digital port. The Wii I just got the Nintendo component cables for definitely think I should be getting one of these for it.
I felt a brain cell die every time you referred to VCRs as "VHS players."
I bought a rare Samsung hd crt and it’s lag free on component in 1080i and it has lag in any other resolution and the hdmi input is laggy I tried a scaller but still literally I have to use a hdmi to component converter and convert 1080p into 1080i to see a full potential of the games, it’s worth the struggle. It’s an awesome video.
Was this video necessary?
Well, yes! It’s a must. Especially for my little brother who is getting into retro-games.
I love all your content. This kind of stuff cements me as a Patreon to be quite honest.
Thank you so much!
I have a Samsung UN32N5300, which is at least directly compatible with HD Retrovision cables (after figuring out to update it, I use my 5X, but the option is nice).
There actually were some flat screen TV's that did really well with handling analog inputs early on when television manufacturers still expected customers to have SD VCRs and DVD players. I remember we had an older Philips HD set that looked great with analog signals right out of the box. I remember playing Okami for the PlayStation 2 on it as well as SNES games and playing VHS tapes and being very satisfied with the picture quality.
Later on when I moved out and got my own flat screen that was much newer than the Philips we had I found that basically anything I plugged into the analog inputs of my new TV looked like garbage.
This is a great video. Should be required watching for everyone in Retro. I've seen a ton of instagram posts from people who just buy the cheap HDMI converters and their video looks TERRIBLE and they give it their stamp of approval. Keep fighting the good fights Bob
I've watched so many videos from you and a handful of other youtubers that talk about scalers, lag and video game signals, but even so I am always grateful to see a new one even if the content is only slightly more informative than the last. For me, it's mostly just entertaining to watch these days since I would consider myself fairly seasoned in dealing with scalers, but at the end of the day it's because of videos like this that my gaming setup is as robust and well-built as it currently is at all. Go back 6 or 7 years however and that was certainly not the case for me lol. I've gone through many different pieces of hardware since then: an OSSC feeding into a Crestron scaler to make the OSSC compatible with my displays at the time, a standalone GBS-Control and, currently the king of my setup, a RetroTink5X. I'm THINKING about taking the leap into a RetroTink4K, but the asking price might be too much for now. Not that that's a bad thing of course, high priced premium electronics have existed since the dawn of time and not everyone is going to want that for different reasons. Laserdisc anyone? lol
More importantly than my own current experiences with your content, these newer video's help newcomers get a firmer understanding as to what exactly they are jumping into when it comes to clean and lag-free retro gaming. There are too many who fall victim to the typical "wow, my experience really sucks" type of reaction when they hook up all their equipment the wrong way or just have bad equipment in general. The best part? It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg! I love how you emphasize that every time you talk about getting a good gaming experience. A RetroTink Mini can be just as effective at delivering a great experience as an OSSC Pro depending on what the person wants even if the price difference between the two is fairly vast. Getting a good gaming setup on your modern flat panel doesn't have to cost your soul, you just have to be smart about what you're shopping for based on your wants and needs. Thanks again for being THE defacto on this stuff. ;)
Thanks so much for the kind words. And I had scaler experts like you in mind when I made this - I made it for newcomers, but also wanted a video experts could pass to their friends, so they didn't have to suffer through explaining it all :)
A fantastic video that explains the basics incredibly well. Thank you.
very awesome/informative vid
Great video! Thank you.
Great video, thanks! I am in the middle of building some systems and debating what scaler to buy. I want the Ferrari, could buy it, but they are never in stock, ahem, RetroTink 4K. I almost built a GBSC and still might as I like to make things. Kicking myself for tossing my CRT's year ago. Ironically, I have 7 HD TV's in my house but I can't play any systems on them and smile, yet.
Thank you! The RT4K was just released and Mike's ramping up production. The second run should be ready in a few weeks and a third, much larger batch is coming about a month after that. So don't worry, you'll get it soon.
Making a GBS-C to hold you off is an excellent idea though. After the RT4K arrives, it can become a "tool in your toolbox", as it still has a ton of uses.
Good luck with your new setup!
Awesome video! Now I have the best summary to send to my friends!
Thank you for skipping the deep explanations and referencing other videos instead. Much better to share with other people :D
Thank you! It’s always such a hard balance, but I tried my best. Lol, don’t worry, I’ll still nerd out in other videos :)
My new favorite channel
I'll definitely keep this in mind for the future, but I'mma stick with my CRTs.
Nothing wrong with that! :)
At least you can play Light Gun games 😉😉😁😁
Great video, thank you
An old vizio I had actually enabled some kind of 30hz mode for 240p that had zero lag, and flicker effects were treated properly. This was around like 2009 though
Wow, that’s cool! Stuff like that, or fast deinterlacing wasn’t common, but was very cool to see.
I posted about it on the shmups board, but it's been a real long time!@@RetroRGB
Thanks Bob. As a retro gaming + retro classic car enthousiast, i love the car comparison. In fact, i’m hoping for an emulation solution for my 1992 Lebaron for Power and Injection Module PCB’s, to keep these 90s cars alive! :)
The 5X is dope, I was on the fence for years and had considered getting a Framemeister XRGB-Mini, but the 5x is better and more affordable!
The best performance per dollar is definitely the GBS-C. Not the hack-it-yourself "solder"-version, but rather pre-made versions that is nicely packaged. The latest iteration of those is a blue acrylic device with a single layer PCB. It has a small oled panel and 4 knobs (three for RGB singal strength/correction, and one clickable knob for navigating settings/presets). It has HDMI and VGA output. RGB-Scart, VGA and component input and only costs 65-90$ on well knows Chinese ebay-alternatives. Worth checking out in a future video Bob... It's the cheapest quality scaler you can find. 1080p, 720p, 1280x960 (NTSC), 1280x1024(PAL), 480i to 240p downscale (!). It offers Integer scaling of PAL/NTSC standards, up to 4x (when going for 5x overscale you will get artifacts and cropped image). It has practically zero input lag, zero-delay 240p/480i resolution switching and motion-adaptive de-interlacing . I got mine for 75$ with shipping and taxes to Sweden. Fantastic purchase for the price. It isn't as good as RetroTink5x or 4K, but it does create REALLY good image for an affordable price.
I've seen some which additionally have composite and S-Video inputs.
I'm interested to try that one. I've seen some that present itself as "GBS-C", but they're something totally different. The one you're talking about appears to be properly made, but I need to try it to confirm.
@@RetroRGB It uses the exact same firmware as the GBS-C, with the same new webUI that work on smartphones. So really, the question is if someone took the GBS-C modification concept, and made a purposefully designed PCB for it with all the required components. It sure seems like it. I'm super happy with mine. The only thing I can't work out is a perfect vertical phase (using the 240p test suite on the Dreamcast). But hey, the dither on the Dreamcast don't cause the subtle moire pattern in-game anymore (as it has been outputting 480p to my TV). With a 2x/4x integer scale for 1080p (960 pixels with borders), It does 95% of the job for me. :) I would love to have the RetroTink4K... But personally I can't justify the purchase. (it's great that it exists though!)
@@waynetemplar2183 I can't guarantee the quality other versions that I don't own them myself or have tested them out. It's likely as good as the one I have. But you never know.
I have a GBS Control and what I found about the 1080p scaling is that it does by default scales 240p exactly like the Framemeister on 1080p output mode with no profile loaded: it scales one line with the pixel height using 5 pixels and the next with 4 pixels. The width being 5 pixels on every line.
This is **exactly** like the Framemeister default scaling does, as I mentioned before. So, this is not an integer scaling. I think it's an strategy to give a default image a decent size on 1080p panel.
But, of course, this approach means the, say, Super Mario World title with uneven pixels on its letters, etc... (the Mega Man lifebar is alternating in size, the list goes on).
The scaling on GBS-C let's you partially solves this, and that's what I'm kindly asking you @pixelshade how did you achieve perfect integer scaling. I did found that if you set VSCALE to 512 and HSCALE to 1023 will get you a nice 5x4 pixel giving me a integer scale of 4x on vertical with a 5 pixel horizontal.
Then, to achieve "kind" of 5x scale I found that setting VSCALE to 409 will get you an almost full 5x5 pixel. Almost because ONE line is, bizarrely, 5x6 with this setting. Any other values gets uneven lines, this is the best I could find.
I was using, of course, 240p Suite, the checkerboard pattern to set (monitor perfectly calibrated, etc).
What values did you find to integer scaling, @pixelshade? Thanks in advance.
I don't have any scalers per say, but I do have a few accessories that helps with making the quality look better than composite, basically a cleaner image. I have the Super 64 Eon Adapter for the Nintendo 64, the GCHD MkII for the GameCube and a Chimeric HD cable and a Xedusa adapter by the BeharBros, that when paired with the 2001/2002 OG Xbox and an mClassic, the quality looks cleaner than just straight up composite. I also mostly game on my Panasonic Plasma TV. Those TV's are great and I've had no issues with lag. They're also great for Rock Band and Guitar Hero with calibration though for some games they may need to be tweaked a bit. I would get a CRT but I don't have the room for it here and I've got too many screens as is. My Panasonic Plasma, my 3D Samsung LED, my 28" 4K monitor and a 43" TCL 4K that's not too bad lag wise with HDMI gaming.
Yup, as shown in the video, the right HDMI plug and play adapter could be all you need.
Great explanation! I wonder if there would be any issues in running a multi-input composite video selector into these? Unless you mentioned that and I skimmed past that part of the video. Would be a worthwhile investment if only buying one to tap all composite consoles into. Thanks for the video!
None! I use switches all the time. Much like with scalers though, try to avoid knockoffs, otherwise you might loose quality.
I don't know if it would help with latency, but most TVs have deinterlacing settings that you can definitely change.
It is nice to have a scaler that does everything for you though.
Good question! In the VERY rare case that there’s a specific “game deinterlace”, it’ll reduce latency via HDMI ports. For some strange reason, the analog ports are still higher…even though $1 analog to digital converter chips exist.
Such as? I've owned several TVs over the past 35 years and I've *never* seen one that lets you change deinterlacing settings.
Yay, classic Bob vid! Thanks Bob!
I figured this out ages ago, but at the time I had gotten most of the way through Contra on a more modern display before that input lag REALLY just got to be unbearable and was absolutely impossible.
if you're living in ntsc regions you can apply this
in pal regions however that's another case, most flat pannels (i had) didn't really have this problem of flicker and wrong deinterlacing, and well inputlag was more noticeable but not really an issue it felt like 5ms on hdmi and 7-8ms over analog signals, maybe it's because i was using scart rgb though because only my nes had similar problems
Respectfully, until you've taken the time to make the same measurements I have, you shouldn't throw around general advice like that. I have tons of friends in PAL regions and all the exact same things apply on most TV's. Maybe you just got lucky?
@@RetroRGB yeah maybe
the only ones i had that were really bad were samsungs but i'm still sticking to crts because of natural sprite softing
My old Sony KDL-52XBR2/3 LCD flat panel from 2006 supports 240p and even displays it in the info panel though it’s clearly doing it in a way that sucks. Also, it has to be S-Video or better or else the info panel will show 480i and it will deinterlace non-interlaced 240p.
I'm glad I watched this, I wanted a scaler for my PS2 and was going to get the Retrotink 2X. But you point out the 2X can't actually handle the PS2's resolutions.
Thanks! Well, the 2X can’t handle 480p, but it definitely can work with the PS2. I’m so sorry to be that CZcamsr that says “just watch this other video…”, but I really do go into detail in this one about the 2X + PS2: czcams.com/video/sdmPFRSi3mA/video.htmlsi=ORBbRaNk-jqmAwR9
I’m located abroad and Mike Chi’s pricing on shipping and handling and the fact there will be customs charges on top, is why I caved to emulation on my AM5 PC…
My Wii and PS2 gather dust due to this and my Sony PVM 20L2MDA’s power supply isn’t working too good. It flickers on and off the screen.
www.retrorgb.com/retrotink-worldwide-distribution.html
Awesome content made up my mind I’m getting the rt4k. I rather have a limo then a jalopi . 😂
Great video
I'm really eager to learn more about the Morph and the Infinity Switch. I only want to future-proof my AVE-HDMI modded Wii, my N64, and my PS3. I know a lot of us like to make fun of the Morph, but I'm sure it will become a great solution.
the entire community appreciates you
Thank you for the kind words :)
I have RT5x love it, just need to get new pro remote.
Good job!
I'm just wondering about the OSSC not having rca/svideo inputs, it works just fine with a rca/svideo to scart adapter?
I don't notice any degradation or added lag etc, but that's just my suggestive interpretation..
Is there something to be said for *not* using a rca/svideo to scart adapter with the OSSC? Or is it just that scart is so scarce in the US, so it wasn't considered or known about?
Good question!: There are no chips on the OSSC to decode composite or S-Video. You could use a Koryuu Transcoder to convert composite and S-Video to a signal the OSSC is compatible with, but simply using a pin connector won't work. Here's a link to information on the Koryuu, but if you need composite and S-Video support, you might want to consider just getting a RetroTINK: czcams.com/video/R3yIWdN0gKE/video.html / www.retrorgb.com/retrotink.html
I've saw a lot of videos like this, but still never found a solution for my problem: is there any scale that can seamless handle 240p to 480i transitions during gameplay? Like Resident Evil for the N64. I always need to remove the Expansion Pak to play the game properly. Also, a device that can handle 480i to 480p transitions, as well as 1080i resolutions. That is needed to play Gran Turismo 4 on either Progressive Scan or HD.
Yes, the RT5x, OSSC Pro and RT4K all have zero dropouts during resolution changes.
Like was mentioned in the video, something like a kaico adapter is good enough for 6th gen consoles and up. For older consoles, I am usually playing them emulated from a mini PC hooked up to HDTV, so the signal is clean upscaled HDMI to begin with. So I guess I'm not the market for these scalers.
Kaico is a clone company. That’s why they weren’t mentioned in this video.
Interesting video.
I found no way to contact you on the RetroRGB website, so here's my question.
I have two working Amiga 1080 analog RGB monitors. I'm heavily into software emulation with MAME, Stella, etc. In my basement I have arcade cabinets using special VGA CRT arcade monitors (fixed at 640x480) that have a tube like a classic arcade monitor or TV vs say a computer CRT as common in the 90s & early 2000s. All sorts of emulators look fantastic on these monitors.
It seems like there should be some kind of cable or converter to be able to use my PC laptop with either the VGA connection or HDMI to convert the signal so I can use these same emulators through some version of Windows. I can run WinXp - Win 10 on my laptop. I could also dedicate a laptop to this task. The Amiga 1080 monitor can also run up to 640x480. I don't think the Windows desktop could be loaded in a lower resolution.
I've been trying to figure out a solution to do this for years, and have gotten almost no where. And there have to be others interested in doing the same. Why might I be able to get some kind of adapter to do this?
Thanks for any help.
Just a word of advice for other videos: the transparency effect shows black only if below 720p, as the video switches to 30FPS.
Might want to put some notes for viewers.
Yeah, I completely forgot to put a note that compression and resolution will affect that clip :(
Hey, Bob.
How well does the OSSC PRO handle more modern Consoles (PS3-5 especially and Nintendo Switch) via HDMI Input??
All I want is a solution that adds Scanlines/Screenfilter effects for either older Games (PS1/PSP) or modern Retro style games.
When the output resolution is too high scanlines become very thin and barely visible if I remember correctly.
Thanks for this video on the subject. I have a plasma that has a bunch of ports that I use that newer tv don't have. I hate the fact that when the plasma die I will have to use more adapter to hook stuff up.
Depending on the model, your plasma might be one of the few TV’s that handles all these signals well. I love my plasma!
hope it is not a panasonic :) bad scaler, high input lag....
its a LG 50P A6500@@RetroRGB
LG 50P A6500, input lags fine@@nattila7713