Tim Keller discussing C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien's view on fiction and Christianity I do not own the music used in this video Howard Shore-The Lord of the Rings
“If I discover within myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.” - C.S. Lewis
@Saint Christopher "The answer to such people is that if they cannot understand books written for grown-ups, they should not talk about them." - C.S. Lewis
"The further limits of our being plunge, it seems to me, into an altogether other dimension of existence from the sensible and merely understandable world. Name it the mystical region, or the supernatural region, whichever you choose. So far as our ideal impulses originate in this region (and most of them do originate in it, for we find them possessing us in a way for which we cannot articulately account), we belong to it in a more intimate sense than that in which we belong to the visible world, for we belong in the most intimate sense wherever our ideals belong. " william james
notice that every popular fantasy story takes place in a medieval-style world. The Middle Ages era was the most intensely religious period in our history. Our yearning for the medieval world is a sign that we are fed up with the modern world and it's secular atmosphere. People want to live in a world where the mysterious and the spiritual are still important. This why the most poplar fiction is stuff like Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, etc.
It was the last era where people would, without doubt, believe in god. That brings with it a certainity about life, that people are missing ever since. You can still believe in god of course, but there is an element of hope in it, mostly more hope than certainity. That is why Nietzsche said that we killed god. And he did not mean this as a good thing and that we would suffer for it.
I would not glorify the Middle Ages. Yes, the majority believed in God, but they were so naive, they lacked insight of the world around them, and that handicap was exploited by clever, yet selfish, evil people, especially from the clergy. I don't think we must blame the rising secularism in the western world. An educated person can be moral and just even if that person is an atheist. An uneducated christian man is as bad as an uneducated atheist one (unfortunately, the majority of the christian dogma is so inflexible that there are so many christian fanatics, and the atheist have none of those). And people have a "God gene", that is the way we evolved, the way our mind works. The ancient idea of God is dead, not the need for comfort, mystery and hope.
I’m so terribly glad I was raised in a Christian household. Christianity was the greatest inheritance I have ever received. Edit: I never realized that was Tim Keller’s voice haha he’s great too.
I used to wish I'd grown up in a Christian household, but now I see that I had space to grow and find my own faith. No-one can say that I only believe because I was taught to do so, or indoctrinated. I believe in God; in my very heart I know Him.
Being brought up in a christian home was terrible for me. Teaching you that there is this figure that always checks if you are doing what’s ‘right’, when in fact there is no such thing. So far that he is even checking your thoughts. Growing up, it easy to recognize that all religions are man-made. The place/time where you are born decides which of the 900+ gods you will believe in(for 95% of religious people). Such a simple fact alone tells me that religion is pure fiction.
Haha, no. You converted because, either you: - Were in a very bad place and felt so desperate that you accepted anything that could give offer some (placebo)relief. Or - Were brought up religious and so you copied these views from your, in which case delusional, parents.
@@Albertanator Awww bless Pascalls wager threaten anyone who doesnt accept your bullshit with eternal torture what a loving religion you have you deluded shit. My morals are provably better than you or your make believe god so fuck you
This is what Jordan Peterson needs to understand. He knows the power of Christianity in the ethical, mythical, and pragmatic sense, but hopefully he will one day soon believe, as C.S. Lewis did, that "Christianity is both a myth and a fact. It's unique. It is the true myth." My whole life I've imagined myself to be a person driven by rationality; that practicing logic and sticking to what's verifiable is what we need to adhere to to make things right. But you know... I think the older you get, the more you realize, (if you're sensible,) just how driven we all really are by the imagination. That our desires and the stories that captivate us really determine how we view the world. I realized looking at my collection of books that though my fiction and biography section was small, it was those books that have had the biggest impact on my life... The stories of missionaries to cannibals, Corrie Ten Boom in Nazi Germany, music artists like Keith Green and Rich Mullins, and Christian heroes like Martin Luther and George Muller. The biography of the latter was what gave me the courage to leave home at 18 and bike to Alberta! The Bible is something like 75% narrative, because though we'd like to think otherwise in our proud age of science and prioritizing the empirical, we cannot escape the fact that we are emotional creatures who are driven and shaped by imposing ourselves into stories, and our hearts long to live the greatest story that we can imagine.
I've always wanted to ask Jordan Peterson this: "You think that because the Bible is filled with elements of mythical style, so beautiful as to be impossible outside of a work of art, that it indicates that it was created by mankind as art. But if God truly did create everything, wouldn't it make sense that reality itself would BE that work of art? Wouldn't it make sense that our longings and desires, also being created by Him, would be fulfilled by history? In short, why when you find a story with such deep meaning and clear artistic elements, do you posit a human consciousness to the design of the story instead of a divine consciousness to the design of reality?"
I honestly think its a facade he puts up so that atheists cant use the tried and true tricks of "you must prove that god does exist before you blah blah blah....". This way he can speak about the deeper meanings in a scientific, philosophical sense while other men help them to understand it in its literal sense. Theres multiple ways to fix a puzzle and peterson is trying to introduce christ to a highly cynical audience whos been told since childhood the evils of the church and going about it as an evangelical preacher wont let them in. If god can't get through the front door, then he'll try the window.
Peterson is one person and he's spreading a humanist message. Besides, don't you think children in war torn Syria and Yemen are more worthy of our attention? Let's not idolize the famous and intelligent.
As a child I loved fantasy stories, hero stories, fairy tales... but as I grew up I became despondent at the evils of the world. And now I realize that the beauty and triumph of good over evil, and the importance of each person in God's world, is true on a deeper level than our world. And my desire for an inspirational, ethereal world beyond us, is a natural feeling, to be encouraged in faith in God, not trampled down by the world. I don't want to live a miserable life, I want to live for heaven and goodness. And I have always wanted this. I have a feeling that many people feel this way. Be in your heart like a child!
I grew up in a very fundamental/puritan household that it turned me off from Chrisitianity for so many years. But now? Thank you CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien for leading me to our Lord Christ through your works. Your talents are such a gift from heaven. I am Home again ♥
"We don't want to read high literature, that's nice and nihilistic, because that's the way life really is. We say 'Well maybe it is, but it SHOULDN'T BE!'" This resonates with me deeply. Why should we accept tragedy, loss and sadness? People often say "The world doesn't care what you want." Well I say that if the world doesn't care about what people want, why should we care about what IT wants? Strive for a better world, the BEST world. Don't be content with the smidgeon of joy the current world allows us to have.
This might be my favourite find on CZcams, it perfectly describes how I came to Christ, I was obsessed with storytelling yet I was a nihilistic mess, then I realised how can stories have meaning when life has no meaning
Christians stopped using the arts (stories/film in today's world) and handes it over to the secularists, and then are shocked when all people ever hear is secularism and are shocked when the vast majority of youth become secular humanists. Culture isn't shaped by politics, the government, or even once per week lectures from your Baptist minister. Culture is shaped by the arts, and politics flow from it, and people usually join a religion (or lack thereof) based upon what they've been taught by the culture. This is why Jesus taught mostly by storytelling; not by voting, politics, schools, or government.
Dude Keith, I been like screaming this for years bro! Christians need to run their races! I think we stopped running in more areas than just art. Science, inquiry, the search for truth, is populated primarily by secularists. The people who actually discover new truths (albeit in a limited fashion) are no longer prophets nor people who claim to live their whole life in pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, & Love, but often institutions & agencies plagued by political & financial agendas. And then these beautiful things which are there to discover, we don't then communicate them through art, through cinema, through video games even. The world is full of passionate, wise people, but somehow followers of Christ seem to have all but already departed from this world, condemning it to its fate, without compassion or concern for the lost, the anguished, the oppressed, for Truth, for goodness, and have resigned themselves to lives of mediocrity & submissiveness to the cultures & powers which surround them, afraid, smoldering embers of a once fire.
@@explorateur8159 exactly! Very well put. Imo opinion we're living in the Great Apostasy prophesied in scripture, but who knows for sure? It just seems that Christians have completely lost all zeal, and I don't see how this will be turned around. We'll see.
I believed in god but never really had a relationship with him until I read the Bible for myself and it exposed a lot about myself and lead me to realize I wasn’t created for myself but to reveal the glory of god to as many people as I could I would encourage any to read the Bible with an open heart not to judge but to allow it to reveal the nature of god and his purpose for us
I feel like... A couple of months from now, I'll be able to have a similar testimony to yours. Western Christians are kinda like the proverbial rich kids growing up without understanding the value of money nor wealth and then one day... poof... You question..
Peaches Kong I will agree with you here growing up in America even though I grew up poor compared to American standards I was still better off than the rest of the world so I grew up a little selfish and even still suffered with depression at times god and his word help me to understand that I wasn’t feeling content in life cause I was living it for myself god didn’t create this world for individuals but for everyone to share in his glory I don’t know the things you have experienced in life so I wouldn’t compare my life to yours but I know you are seeking god cause you have found this video and there is one thing everyone does share and that’s love and there’s no love like the love of god so I encourage you to keep searching god bless
It's beautiful to see others who believe in god. And I'm not talking about Christianity (i hope I'm spelling that correctly) but, simoly, God. I myself am a muslim (i think that's how it's spelt) and have only in the last couple of years started believing in god. Because of the signs i have seen and heard of. Because of the world. It is not Christianity, Islam or any other that's the main matter (i don't think so; but apparently in Quran it is stated that Islam is "the most complete religion" and those who *understand* that but still turn away from Islam, will be rewarded for their deeds but eventually feel agony in hell; atleast, that's what i remember one of our teachers telling us a couple years back. I can't read Arabic so i can't read Quran while also understanding most of what I'm reading)
M Shirzady more then religion there is god we have to look a side differences and learn to lean on god to live out his plan for us I don’t know you but god want us to love as he loves if we all shared that concept imagine the change it could bring to the world so my friend I will encourage you to keep you relationship with god more then religion
"There shouldn't death. We're not meant to die. We're not meant to lose our loved one. Good should be triumphing over evil. There ought to be a supernatural world. We shouldn't be stuck in time and then we are dead. At a deeper level we feel this is how reality ought to be."
The power of story, conveyed through "secondary belief," is that a good story well told that expresses *_an eternal verity_* -- one of the truths written into the laws of the universe -- is more persuasive than any amount of exposition. It does so by embedding that truth in the motivations, decisions, and actions of the characters, *_and the consequences that follow._* There is more persuasive power in such a story than all the lectures ever given and all the textbooks that have ever existed.
I would call them mimetic, their power comes from the degree to which they imitate & communicate the beautiful, complex nature of our Creator & His creation.
"Artists tell lies to tell the truth. Politicians tell lies to cover the truth up." (Taken from V for Vendetta). This video reminded me of this quote. LOTR and LW&W are incredible timeless stories.
Im an elapsed catholic and kind of atheist this days, but videos like this makes me want to go to church again and pray the rosary. This video is so beautiful, your voice is soothing and the choice of music is perfect. Well done mate!
Try praying directly to God through Jesus Christ. Nothing against Mary, but the bible tells us that Jesus is our high priest, the only mediator we need between man and God. He loved you enough to die on the cross, he'll love you enough to hear your prayers. Cheers.
@@OSleeperTactical Catholics don't pray *to* Mary, or any of the Saints for that matter, we ask them to pray for us, as you would pray for your friend or family. This is supported through scripture as well. We acknowledge that Jesus is the only Mediator, but that doesn't pertain to interceding. In fact, Paul urges us to intercede for others in 1 Tim. 2:1-4 as it pleases God.
@@Cklert So are you saying that Jesus doesn't intercede for us? Jesus loves us enough that, He not only sent Himself, that when he went back up into Heaven, He sent The Holy Spirit for the disciples in order for Him to intercede for Jesus. This is what john piper says on the topic. 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. Christianity is the only religion in the world that affirms that there is one, and only one, true God, and that there are three divine persons in the one God: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. This is called the doctrine of the Trinity. The church did not come to embrace the doctrine of the Trinity because there is a sentence in the Bible that says: "there is one God existing as three persons equal in divine essence, but distinct in personhood." There is no sentence like that in the Bible. Rather the reason the church has embraced this doctrine is because the Bible unwaveringly speaks of one true God, not three Gods, and yet reveals the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as God, and as distinct persons. If this perplexes you, keep in mind: We are in no position as creatures to dictate to our Creator what he may or should be like. God is absolute reality. He was there before anything else was, and he did not come into being, but always was. Therefore nobody made him the way he is, and there is no reason he is the way he is. He simply is. That is his name: "I Am Who I Am" (Exodus 3:14). Our role is not to say what can and can't be in God, but to learn who he is and who we are, and to shape our lives according to his reality - his will. We submit to the way he is. He doesn't submit to the way we are or the way we think he should be. One of the places where the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, is revealed most fully is in Romans 8. We are focusing on his work today in verses 26-27, but it would be good for us to see what has been revealed so far about the work of the person of the Holy Spirit. What emerges in this chapter is that the Spirit is not just some force or power of God the Father, but a person who works along with the Father and in relation to the Father. Here's an overview of what the Spirit does for us. And one of my goals in mentioning these things is that you might love the Spirit. Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all that you are. The Spirit is God. Therefore, you should love the Spirit - as a person. Not as a force or power, but as a person who thinks about you and has emotions for you and works for you - indeed, as we will see in a moment, prays for you. According to verse 2 the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets you free from the law of sin and death. According to verse 4 the Spirit helps you fulfill the just requirement of the law. According to verse 6 the Spirit give life and peace. According to verse 11 God will raise you from the dead by the Spirit who dwells in you. According to verse 13 the Spirit helps you put to death the deeds of the body. According to verse 14 the sons of God are led by the Spirit. According to verses 15-16 the Spirit bears witness in us that we are the children of God and so gives us assurance of our salvation. According to verse 23 the Holy Spirit is the foretaste and guarantee of our final redemption. And now in verses 26-27 the Spirit helps us when we don't know how to pray as we should. That's what we want to look at this morning. Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God. The word "likewise" at the beginning of verse 26 means that Paul has been giving help to us in what he has been saying and now he wants to give us some more help by explaining that the Spirit himself helps us. The way he has been helping us is by telling us why our sufferings are worth enduring for Christ. All of verses 18-25 give reasons for why we should hold fast to our hope in the midst of futility and decay and groaning and death. Now Paul says, "likewise" - in the same way - the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness.
gowd sake If what you said or imply is TRUE, that we are no more than physical, then in reality this must, as being truth, hold implications that if drawn out to its logical conclusions, should contain, shed light on, give explanation to ALL reality. But as it appears, you only bare witness to half the picture. And if what you said is just it. Then explain what is that ALSO in man that is as real as physical reality. I will use these for example while giving universal examples. Things like thought and emotions, both of which you employed even as you wrote your comment. It would stand to reason that you thought and felt some way about Sacred Music Tribe's comment, that it moved you physically to reply. Which response is the manifest product of that inner working of thought and feeling, or maybe you believe your comment was all chemical or blood. Whatever you think. We physical beings know and witness that there are aspects of realities that are not tangible, they cannot be examined under a microscope but are nonetheless reality. Whatever you thought and felt about what Sacred Music Tribe wrote, had you not commented, your thoughts and feelings would have been no less real than had they remained in your own knowledge and possession of them. But of your own choice and desire, you went public and provided proof of your thought by your comment. Which was known only to yourself before you went public. Likewise, God, who before He ever created, alone knew His own existence thought and plans and had He not created or out His own desire to make Himself know and shared, He would have remained known only to Himself. We exist to know and be known. Evidenced in many ways..conversation/dialog in all its expressions are one proof. Be it pleasant or not. People are driven to make their points known, partly because they think and feel that their point is valid & valuable and should be heard. And this we find true of malevolent and benevolent motives alike, they ultimately want to be shared (that is agreed with). For that is its satisfying and consummate end. And if not, then why make it known at all, for it will be an end in itself if the sharer amongst many things did not seek to gain also an agreement. Which also reflects what God seeks from rational creatures He's made in His own eternal image. We were made to witness all that exist by Him including ourselves and draw the overwhelming conclusion that He is unfathomably awesome and true and worthy to be loved and worshipped for His manifest eternal worth, which He abundantly communicates through all that He has made. To which a denial of, is sin against Him. Since He has made it plain through all that is(exist). So His truth abounds still through doubts unaffected, incorruptible and unfailingly true. Which makes Him trustworthy, faithful an everlasting rock that a wise man builds upon. To deny the reality of thought and emotion one should have to employ them both to take whichever stance he take..which only lands one back at the reality of thought and emotion. Weather one accepts or denies, these realities exist as objectively true and bears witness to all objective subjects as subjectively true as well, from which point the sum of these vantage points, points us past themselves and ourselves, to something far greater. The eternal One has written eternity in our hearts.
@@JesusISdaonlyway WTF was that about ? Honestly did it make any sense to you at all ? Thoughts emotions = a sky pixie ? thats one fucking HUGE leap. I dont deny reality as you seem to suggest. I also dont add onto reality shit that has zero proof at all ! Prove me wrong be the first theist in history to prove the existence of a supernatural being in any tangible way ! I am betting tho all you have is the same old shit that has been totally debunked but go ahead try me !
That means concreatly entering into the Church the renewed people of Israel ("believe and be baptised every one of you") of which he is the Lord and King enthroned at the right hand of the Father, led on Earth by those who succeed Peter and the Apostles, the Father's, leaders and officers he chose to lead it untill he comes again, against which Church the gates of Hades, ie. the power of death can never prevail according to His promise.
Another way to understand that truth - the way I understand it - is "You can't know God propositionally, you can only know Him relationally." You can know all about Him propositionally, but you can only know Him relationally.
Let's have some appreciation for George MacDonald, a generation before but who spurred both Tolkien and Lewis to consider Christ as Lord, even when Lewis rejected Christ in his early years.
The Gospel seems like a myth (To most), because it appears to be "too good to be true," which I also believe to be true. The love of Jesus seems to be something unfathomable, which it is.
Thank you for your comment and for watching Iván. I'm praying for you as well a I believe the questions of who Jesus i to us and where we will spend eternity is the most important question in our lives. I would encourage you to read again the gospel of John and study the life of Jesus Christ. Also this video: czcams.com/video/Ucnf4rm75Fk/video.html has a helpful and good gospel presentation and takes you through the scriptures, I hope you will find time to watch it. God bless you!
All that is needed is a genuine prayer, to God, if he is real, to show himself to you. But be ready for an answer, in what may be a creative, yet personal way
I was just reading the part of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe to my son..the part of Aslan as a sacrificial offering.....and we both cried knowing TRUTH. It is all about the cross or the stone tablet!
I am not religious, but I can't help but envy those who fully believe in something that helps them get through life, gives them meaning and helps them see beauty and hope. For me, escaping into the beauty of Tolkien's books is what is getting me through, and I'm grateful for that and everything that inspired it.
Are you a believer yet? If not what's stopping you. You already said you envy them. You can believe and receive everything you just described today if you chose to
@@trey5768 I'm not sure you can just 'choose' to believe in something...I left Christianity because I didn't connect with it on many levels, and didn't agree with a lot of its ideas. But I still think I would like more spirituality in my life, and I've been getting that through connecting with nature. I just don't think organised religion is my thing, too much human corruption within it.
@@CelebrianUndomiel Try to speak with Jesus on a personal level, i know it's hard but i urge you to try. We will always be sinners but he gave us a way.
@@walterjunior1254 I’ve already made the decision that Christianity is not for me. Respectfully, I didn’t make this comment for people to try to convert me or change my mind.
The myths, the legends, the power to create stories is one of God's greatest gifts to Mankind. With it, we should praise Him just as Lewis and Tolkien did. This world is dark because the people who rule it are dark in their souls, they listen to the Prince of this World. We find in the works of Lewis and Tolkien that goodness still triumphs because they believe in Jesus Christ above all else. Only with this realization can Mankind rise from the ashes and become truly beautiful.
This is why I couldn't be drawn into A Song of Ice and Fire. Don't get me wrong, it's a good series with deep complexity, but you can get the drift of George's nihilistic views on people as all being negative and dualistic. He understands people but ultimately and secretly hates them. Moral characters are given a single dot of darkness to be grey, and seemingly evil and conniving characters given some silver lining to be considered not wholly black. Every story these days has to be so edgy and redefining the whole theme of light vs. dark. That poignant grey vs. grey dynamic to how humans actually are. Why yes it's true, but would you consider Nazism, a human-born political system of evil and control and death permeate mankind (kind of like it has to this day) and be the belief system on which humanity should be judged upon? This world would be miserable if that were to come to pass. George's views are depressing, and that's why Tolkien and even Lewis's worlds are going to remain timeless. They have such ambiguity in how things will resolve, but one thing is fundamental and certain: that love will triumph over hate, that no matter how much darkness and evil there is in this world. Good people will always find a way to make it better.
I didn't see A Song of Ice and Fire that way. Even the best people, the heroes we look up to, do have darkness below the surface and even the most evil villains in our world are capable of redemption. That's the nature of original sin. George RR Martin is a master at writing characters and a master at creating believable worlds.
George's story hasn't concluded yet I wont judge it yet as such.. But alot of his character's main motivation is Love. Sometimes it dooms them, but then it sometimes leads them to glory. You might only find it nihilistic because some of the events are based on gruesome history and it is less fantasical compared to Narnia or LOTR.
seraby George gave the reins to most of his story ideas and their resolutions to D&D for GoT. After seeing how much backlash the last season received it has intimidated George from finishing his stories’ plot points. Which is natural, every writer would. George is a good writer but it is his basis on history that creates a vacuum in his own writing as characters die and their spots are filled in by less-appealing characters. That’s the problem his books convey in my view. To each their own, but I feel the theme for GoT isn’t as resonate as the more fantastical worlds that sci fi and fantasy are supposed to have. In fact, I’m not precisely certain what the theme George is trying to write about. Is it humans are evil, but are also good? Is it war is stupid? I can’t think of anymore that’s how vague his story’s thematics are. He’s an excellent writer but his work comes off shallow with it being unfinished in written format and if GoT is the representation of his vision, it did a poor job at it. I hope he goes a different direction and finishes the story, but it seems like the latter is not happening.
I agree, GoT is somehow dirty, while LotR is pure, In LotR the one who is good is completely good and the one who is bad is utterly bad. GoT characters are disappointing, you cannot tie yourself to them, they are not role models. Tolkien seems to have a goal of the story, he has his end and meaning, Martin seems to have no particular goal, at least by what he has written up to this moment.
@@blackbaron4774 Yes. But read the first and the second replies of this reply section again. No one is completely good or completely bad. Even God's wisest and most devoted prophets did some bad things.
Every time I would finish a wonderful book or a wonderful movie there came a bittersweet Moment when I knew I could never experience it again for the first time. That wonderful sense of discovery and newness was gone with the last word or the final scene; the story that was new was now forever old. When Jesus came in my heart I had a truly wonderful sense of discovery and newness that never ended, has never grown old. Jesus is the story of life.
This is so good. The music, of course, is wonderful too, but if there's a way to edit it so that it doesn't drown out what's being said, it might be help. Thank you for sharing though!
I appreciate the fact, that some people on the internet, actually know that Catholics are Christian. I have yet to read any JRR Tolkien, but I've been reading CS Lewis a lot.
@@marycassidy1695 Giving what you said. Do you think it's a mistake to pray or put TRUST in the virgin Mary? Since it takes away from Jesus in a way? Your thoughts?
@@HighNoon23 I dont understand why some people think they need to pray to saints. Can you explain it to me? As i understand it, we can pray directly to Jesus, because when he died the veil in the temple was torn in two, which shows that we can come directly to God now, not only the priests. And the saints are "only" human, why should we pray to them? This is not ment to offend anybody. I just try to understand it.
How many of you know this in your hearts as true? I could not have done any research or seen any video about this stuff but the words are like you own because when something is true God will let you know in your heart.
“Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.” No religious acts, rituals, etc. I’m a Christian, but I’m not particularly fond of religious acts. They’re a futile attempt to make ones way to God when God has already made his way to us.
it's for these very reasons expressed in both the essay and and Tim Keller's words that I've been a longtime fan of Star wars and works of Lewis and Tolkien and comic books. I see pieces of the Bible and especially the Gospel in them yet because I was raised on the Bible, fiction is sequestered to it's proper place because I know that it's the breadcrumbs taken from the very bread of heaven.
I decided to read the New Testament all the way through a couple of months back. I had to get a parallel bible to allow me to better understand the text better. I am all the way to John 2 and slowly getting the message of it more clearly. The thing is, low brow intellect such as mine makes the Bible very difficult to fully grasp. That’s why I started listening to these type videos.
Christianity itself is not the end of it...Jesus Christ...seeking God and finding Him in His one true holy and completely perfect son...knowing His love, mercy, gentleness, grace, healing, joy, peace, forgiveness, long suffering, sacrifice...receiving Him into your heart...fully surrendered...the indwelling of His spirit...the Holy Spirit...that is both the beginning and the end. God bless🙏🏽
We can live without facts and science, but we can't live without a mythos. The people in stories are more real for me than the shadows passing furtively on the street. One story I wrote had 4 characters, and I think of them each day. It's wonderful and strange. And Jesus ... is more real for me than any of the characters in stories.
The beauty of this is that in large parts of the world if you are to tell a joke about a Ring or a Wardrobe there is probably a 90% chance that the joke will involve walking through the wardrobe or involve destroying the ring or calling it “my precious”. The reason that is so special is because to many of us the worlds and works of C.S Lewis and JRR Tolkien live within our secondary reality. I have discovered so many worlds in my imagination through reading and I don’t think I’d have ever been given that gift had I not been introduced to the worlds these two created.
I wish CSLewis had said that “he believed in Christ rather than Christianity( which is many things) as he sees the sun(Son) rising he sees it and by it he sees everything else”.
I disagree with the conclusion but I understand and agree with the premise. I am an atheist. Maybe not athiest. Agnostic with a firm belief that whatever IS out there isnt of this earth. I agree that human beings do have this innate need for the the mystical and fantastic. That love and desire for good to triumph over evil. I think those are worthy areas of interest. And this only makes me respect Tolkein more. I'm by no means a Christian. I don't personally ascribe to it. But I see why he did. And as my absolute favorite author of all time its comforting to see things I have always felt to some degree. I think that faith and a lot of innate human values like that of goodness and true humanism have some greater meaning in terms of our existence. Whether its scientific or by some means a mystical source from which we do not yet know
This expresses exactly what I'd like to say about great fiction (or write into some of my own!). It shows what we long for in the real world - how the world should be, and how religions and traditions have a story as a framework to understand the world - but there are so many stories - true, partly-true, legend, fiction, and who's to say which is the most true for the real world if there is a Big Story behind it all - I think we all come to our own conclusions about that - or just believe what we are told - until we come across something better that makes more sense.The battle between good and evil is easier to recognise in fiction - it's got very complex and mixed up in the real world where things aren't so black and white!
The tragic thing is Tolkien actually didn't like the Narnia books when Lewis showed him the manuscript. He didn't approve of the mixing different mythologies together, and definitely didn't like throwing in a secular character like Father Christmas. It's things like that that make me feel I'd rather have met Lewis. Tolkien I think I'd rather recognize from a distance.
Our imagination IS Jesus. Only through imagination we reach God. Secondary believe is the Real Reality, Creation in it`s whole infinite state! We make it come to life by FEELING
I adore Tolkien and enjoy Lewis; I fundamentally disagree with their theological conclusions but have the greatest respect for the arguments, especially Tolkien's, and would give everything to go back in a time machine and stroll along the riverbank debating the great mysteries of Life & Death and with these two literary titans. Finish up in the Bird & Baby to wash it all down with a couple of pints, of course!!
Could the producers of youtube video learnedwhen and how to insert background music? I does nt need continuous music played loud overwhelming the narator.
The one thing that needs to be said is that Jesus and the resurrection ARE just another beautiful story BUT we CHOSE to believe this one. As nobody was there for any of the powerful things that happened in the Bible or the horrific things. The entire thing could be one big story and if it is and it has affected as many lives as it has , then maybe the true authors really did have divine inspiration. No other collection of stories has ever come close to this one particularly powerful story. Even an atheist could see that. For whatever reason , the majority of people on the planet latched onto this story and never let it go. It’s not a bad thing. It’s only a bad thing when people use religion to back their vile causes ( which is an attempt at arguing from a position of authority. ).
All the stories ever told borrow their power from THE story, that things were once good, evil entered, and a deliverer came to rescue us all from evil. There is no other story. We've been telling ourselves the same story since the beginning of the world.
I just stumbled on a video saying that Tolkien was burning in Hell and the 'The Lord of the Rings' is Satanic. Thank God these people are in a minority of the fanatical fringe. Judge not, lest you too may be judged. They might have missed that one.
@@lifewasgiventous1614 this was only a short distance from dangerous fundamentalism making assumptions about the spiritual fate of Tolkien and others. Lots of hate.
Betting a good $100 that the guy saying that was most likely a protestant. Mormon myself so people will tell me I have no right to talk but protestants tend to have borderline nutty ideas that make it hard for me to listen to them.
J. Tolkien had a larger comprehensive view of world spirituality, and there is No direct reference to Christianity in the Lord of the Rings, though there are analogies. I do Not know how the author knew in details about word for word conversations between C. Lewis and J. Tolkien. Blessed be the memory of Isha.
From an imaginative and phycological standpoint, Sort of experiencing something fundamental in, kind of human experience. It is a big idea that captures the imagination, that really taps into something important in the human psyche, connects with people’s souls. That’s why I think it is not just something that was popular at a particular period of time with a particular group of people but continue s to touch generation after generation.
Wait, so no one is gonna comment on Gandalf? Dying protecting the fellowship and going into to the grave(sheol), "ressurecting" as gandalf the white(after ascending to the highest place of the world), to then come back(second coming) and save everyone ? If that isn´t a symbol of Christ i don´t know what is. And the question is if our lord and saviour likes us to idolize characters like Gandalf, which take the saviours role on his shoulders. One thing is missing tough, where is his father? We´re are the all powerfull being that created everything? Just because a book is about fighting evil doesn´t make it christian. And just because it´s fiction doesn´t take away the fact that people won´t idolize the work. There are millions of tolkien fans that have no idea or clue about Jesus Christ and the Father in heaven but instead are immersed in the world of Tolkien and other science fiction worlds. What is even Evil in the tolkien world? Without a creator above everything else who is all knowing and all powerful, which his world seems to lack completely, how can we determine what evil is ? Definitely not with Christian terms, because our God and creator are totally absent. So in his books Sauron could be right, Saruman could be right, Gandalf could be right, the ents could be right etc. We ourselfs put christian values on a book that is not christian, and cheers for one side because they seem to behave more like christians would and the other side more like evil should, when infact it´s a world where the beings living there decides what´s right and wrong, not God. peace
Great video! Only thing for me was the inopportune commercials. Just when it comes to the parts that are deep and insightful, you gets loud random commercial. I know people have to make money, but sometimes the message should outweigh the profit. That aside, awesome and true!
“If I discover within myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world.”
- C.S. Lewis
@Saint Christopher "The answer to such people is that if they cannot understand books written for grown-ups, they should not talk about them."
- C.S. Lewis
"The further limits of our being plunge, it seems to me, into an altogether other dimension of existence from the sensible and merely understandable world. Name it the mystical region, or the supernatural region, whichever you choose. So far as our ideal impulses originate in this region (and most of them do originate in it, for we find them possessing us in a way for which we cannot articulately account), we belong to it in a more intimate sense than that in which we belong to the visible world, for we belong in the most intimate sense wherever our ideals belong. " william james
Desire+no explenation = other world😂
I smell pizza, but I don’t see one anywhere. IT MUST BE FROM ANOTHER GALAXY!
@@GinoNL well I mean, a desire for pizza would be satisfied with pizza... That's a bit of a false & unequal analogy
" Thug Life " - 2pac
notice that every popular fantasy story takes place in a medieval-style world. The Middle Ages era was the most intensely religious period in our history. Our yearning for the medieval world is a sign that we are fed up with the modern world and it's secular atmosphere. People want to live in a world where the mysterious and the spiritual are still important. This why the most poplar fiction is stuff like Lord of the Rings, Game of Thrones, etc.
As a wannabe writer of medieval fantasy, I had never considered that connection. I think you've hit the nail on the head right there.
That’s a good insight, fascinating.
It was the last era where people would, without doubt, believe in god. That brings with it a certainity about life, that people are missing ever since. You can still believe in god of course, but there is an element of hope in it, mostly more hope than certainity. That is why Nietzsche said that we killed god. And he did not mean this as a good thing and that we would suffer for it.
I would not glorify the Middle Ages. Yes, the majority believed in God, but they were so naive, they lacked insight of the world around them, and that handicap was exploited by clever, yet selfish, evil people, especially from the clergy. I don't think we must blame the rising secularism in the western world. An educated person can be moral and just even if that person is an atheist. An uneducated christian man is as bad as an uneducated atheist one (unfortunately, the majority of the christian dogma is so inflexible that there are so many christian fanatics, and the atheist have none of those). And people have a "God gene", that is the way we evolved, the way our mind works. The ancient idea of God is dead, not the need for comfort, mystery and hope.
Jonathan Lewis
I’m so terribly glad I was raised in a Christian household. Christianity was the greatest inheritance I have ever received.
Edit: I never realized that was Tim Keller’s voice haha he’s great too.
Life was Given to us amen . Same here
@Julie's Heart Healed By Jesus It is the greatest thing that happened to me as well. Greatest Inheritance.
I too was raised in a Christian home and at 45 am extremely grateful to have known God for as long as I have.
I used to wish I'd grown up in a Christian household, but now I see that I had space to grow and find my own faith. No-one can say that I only believe because I was taught to do so, or indoctrinated. I believe in God; in my very heart I know Him.
Being brought up in a christian home was terrible for me. Teaching you that there is this figure that always checks if you are doing what’s ‘right’, when in fact there is no such thing. So far that he is even checking your thoughts.
Growing up, it easy to recognize that all religions are man-made. The place/time where you are born decides which of the 900+ gods you will believe in(for 95% of religious people). Such a simple fact alone tells me that religion is pure fiction.
These two are why I converted, CS and JRR.
Rumble Bee ...you are quite right! I love Chesterton. I’m reading “Orthodoxy” right now. He is wonderful.
Rumble Bee jv
C S Lewis RINGS TRUE🎵🔔🎵 through all of his stories! D
Praise God!
Haha, no. You converted because, either you:
- Were in a very bad place and felt so desperate that you accepted anything that could give offer some (placebo)relief. Or
- Were brought up religious and so you copied these views from your, in which case delusional, parents.
CS Lewis said that "God becomes an author. And writes himself into his story".
Thus we have the buybull !
@Lye Detector Really are you now going to be the only person in history that can prove god ?
@@gowdsake7103 If you don't turn from the broad road , you will find out for yourself very soon.
@@Albertanator Awww bless Pascalls wager threaten anyone who doesnt accept your bullshit with eternal torture what a loving religion you have you deluded shit. My morals are provably better than you or your make believe god so fuck you
@@gowdsake7103 Many have proven that God is a reality. You're just too ignorant to understand.
This is what Jordan Peterson needs to understand. He knows the power of Christianity in the ethical, mythical, and pragmatic sense, but hopefully he will one day soon believe, as C.S. Lewis did, that "Christianity is both a myth and a fact. It's unique. It is the true myth."
My whole life I've imagined myself to be a person driven by rationality; that practicing logic and sticking to what's verifiable is what we need to adhere to to make things right.
But you know... I think the older you get, the more you realize, (if you're sensible,) just how driven we all really are by the imagination. That our desires and the stories that captivate us really determine how we view the world. I realized looking at my collection of books that though my fiction and biography section was small, it was those books that have had the biggest impact on my life... The stories of missionaries to cannibals, Corrie Ten Boom in Nazi Germany, music artists like Keith Green and Rich Mullins, and Christian heroes like Martin Luther and George Muller. The biography of the latter was what gave me the courage to leave home at 18 and bike to Alberta!
The Bible is something like 75% narrative, because though we'd like to think otherwise in our proud age of science and prioritizing the empirical, we cannot escape the fact that we are emotional creatures who are driven and shaped by imposing ourselves into stories, and our hearts long to live the greatest story that we can imagine.
I've always wanted to ask Jordan Peterson this:
"You think that because the Bible is filled with elements of mythical style, so beautiful as to be impossible outside of a work of art, that it indicates that it was created by mankind as art. But if God truly did create everything, wouldn't it make sense that reality itself would BE that work of art? Wouldn't it make sense that our longings and desires, also being created by Him, would be fulfilled by history?
In short, why when you find a story with such deep meaning and clear artistic elements, do you posit a human consciousness to the design of the story instead of a divine consciousness to the design of reality?"
Unless he shakes from Jung's gnostycism it will be hard for him or he might manage it anyways which would be even more amazing
I honestly think its a facade he puts up so that atheists cant use the tried and true tricks of "you must prove that god does exist before you blah blah blah....". This way he can speak about the deeper meanings in a scientific, philosophical sense while other men help them to understand it in its literal sense. Theres multiple ways to fix a puzzle and peterson is trying to introduce christ to a highly cynical audience whos been told since childhood the evils of the church and going about it as an evangelical preacher wont let them in.
If god can't get through the front door, then he'll try the window.
Peterson is one person and he's spreading a humanist message. Besides, don't you think children in war torn Syria and Yemen are more worthy of our attention? Let's not idolize the famous and intelligent.
Dugon man agreed
As a child I loved fantasy stories, hero stories, fairy tales... but as I grew up I became despondent at the evils of the world. And now I realize that the beauty and triumph of good over evil, and the importance of each person in God's world, is true on a deeper level than our world. And my desire for an inspirational, ethereal world beyond us, is a natural feeling, to be encouraged in faith in God, not trampled down by the world. I don't want to live a miserable life, I want to live for heaven and goodness. And I have always wanted this.
I have a feeling that many people feel this way.
Be in your heart like a child!
I grew up in a very fundamental/puritan household that it turned me off from Chrisitianity for so many years.
But now? Thank you CS Lewis and JRR Tolkien for leading me to our Lord Christ through your works. Your talents are such a gift from heaven.
I am Home again ♥
"We don't want to read high literature, that's nice and nihilistic, because that's the way life really is. We say 'Well maybe it is, but it SHOULDN'T BE!'"
This resonates with me deeply. Why should we accept tragedy, loss and sadness? People often say "The world doesn't care what you want." Well I say that if the world doesn't care about what people want, why should we care about what IT wants? Strive for a better world, the BEST world. Don't be content with the smidgeon of joy the current world allows us to have.
This might be my favourite find on CZcams, it perfectly describes how I came to Christ, I was obsessed with storytelling yet I was a nihilistic mess, then I realised how can stories have meaning when life has no meaning
Christians stopped using the arts (stories/film in today's world) and handes it over to the secularists, and then are shocked when all people ever hear is secularism and are shocked when the vast majority of youth become secular humanists.
Culture isn't shaped by politics, the government, or even once per week lectures from your Baptist minister. Culture is shaped by the arts, and politics flow from it, and people usually join a religion (or lack thereof) based upon what they've been taught by the culture. This is why Jesus taught mostly by storytelling; not by voting, politics, schools, or government.
Bro u like rc sproul
Dude Keith, I been like screaming this for years bro!
Christians need to run their races! I think we stopped running in more areas than just art.
Science, inquiry, the search for truth, is populated primarily by secularists. The people who actually discover new truths (albeit in a limited fashion) are no longer prophets nor people who claim to live their whole life in pursuit of Truth, Wisdom, & Love, but often institutions & agencies plagued by political & financial agendas.
And then these beautiful things which are there to discover, we don't then communicate them through art, through cinema, through video games even.
The world is full of passionate, wise people, but somehow followers of Christ seem to have all but already departed from this world, condemning it to its fate, without compassion or concern for the lost, the anguished, the oppressed, for Truth, for goodness, and have resigned themselves to lives of mediocrity & submissiveness to the cultures & powers which surround them, afraid, smoldering embers of a once fire.
Exactly. Christianity is good for what it is, but not so good for HOW it is, at least today.
@@explorateur8159 exactly! Very well put. Imo opinion we're living in the Great Apostasy prophesied in scripture, but who knows for sure? It just seems that Christians have completely lost all zeal, and I don't see how this will be turned around. We'll see.
@@zajaiva5 true that
I believed in god but never really had a relationship with him until I read the Bible for myself and it exposed a lot about myself and lead me to realize I wasn’t created for myself but to reveal the glory of god to as many people as I could I would encourage any to read the Bible with an open heart not to judge but to allow it to reveal the nature of god and his purpose for us
I feel like... A couple of months from now, I'll be able to have a similar testimony to yours. Western Christians are kinda like the proverbial rich kids growing up without understanding the value of money nor wealth and then one day... poof... You question..
Peaches Kong I will agree with you here growing up in America even though I grew up poor compared to American standards I was still better off than the rest of the world so I grew up a little selfish and even still suffered with depression at times god and his word help me to understand that I wasn’t feeling content in life cause I was living it for myself god didn’t create this world for individuals but for everyone to share in his glory I don’t know the things you have experienced in life so I wouldn’t compare my life to yours but I know you are seeking god cause you have found this video and there is one thing everyone does share and that’s love and there’s no love like the love of god so I encourage you to keep searching god bless
It's beautiful to see others who believe in god. And I'm not talking about Christianity (i hope I'm spelling that correctly) but, simoly, God. I myself am a muslim (i think that's how it's spelt) and have only in the last couple of years started believing in god. Because of the signs i have seen and heard of. Because of the world.
It is not Christianity, Islam or any other that's the main matter (i don't think so; but apparently in Quran it is stated that Islam is "the most complete religion" and those who *understand* that but still turn away from Islam, will be rewarded for their deeds but eventually feel agony in hell; atleast, that's what i remember one of our teachers telling us a couple years back. I can't read Arabic so i can't read Quran while also understanding most of what I'm reading)
M Shirzady more then religion there is god we have to look a side differences and learn to lean on god to live out his plan for us I don’t know you but god want us to love as he loves if we all shared that concept imagine the change it could bring to the world so my friend I will encourage you to keep you relationship with god more then religion
God*
“He went into the word of the Lord to find the Lord of the Word.”
"There shouldn't death. We're not meant to die. We're not meant to lose our loved one. Good should be triumphing over evil. There ought to be a supernatural world. We shouldn't be stuck in time and then we are dead. At a deeper level we feel this is how reality ought to be."
The power of story, conveyed through "secondary belief," is that a good story well told that expresses *_an eternal verity_* -- one of the truths written into the laws of the universe -- is more persuasive than any amount of exposition. It does so by embedding that truth in the motivations, decisions, and actions of the characters, *_and the consequences that follow._*
There is more persuasive power in such a story than all the lectures ever given and all the textbooks that have ever existed.
I would call them mimetic, their power comes from the degree to which they imitate & communicate the beautiful, complex nature of our Creator & His creation.
"Artists tell lies to tell the truth. Politicians tell lies to cover the truth up." (Taken from V for Vendetta). This video reminded me of this quote.
LOTR and LW&W are incredible timeless stories.
Im an elapsed catholic and kind of atheist this days, but videos like this makes me want to go to church again and pray the rosary. This video is so beautiful, your voice is soothing and the choice of music is perfect. Well done mate!
jimeas popoloiv go, God and the Virgin Mary loves you. Peace be with you.
Try praying directly to God through Jesus Christ. Nothing against Mary, but the bible tells us that Jesus is our high priest, the only mediator we need between man and God.
He loved you enough to die on the cross, he'll love you enough to hear your prayers. Cheers.
Many of us have been where you are. Keep searching and you will find what you are looking for: God Bless you and Keep you.
@@OSleeperTactical Catholics don't pray *to* Mary, or any of the Saints for that matter, we ask them to pray for us, as you would pray for your friend or family. This is supported through scripture as well. We acknowledge that Jesus is the only Mediator, but that doesn't pertain to interceding. In fact, Paul urges us to intercede for others in 1 Tim. 2:1-4 as it pleases God.
@@Cklert
So are you saying that Jesus doesn't intercede for us? Jesus loves us enough that, He not only sent Himself, that when he went back up into Heaven, He sent The Holy Spirit for the disciples in order for Him to intercede for Jesus.
This is what john piper says on the topic.
25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience. 26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
Christianity is the only religion in the world that affirms that there is one, and only one, true God, and that there are three divine persons in the one God: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and God the Holy Spirit. This is called the doctrine of the Trinity. The church did not come to embrace the doctrine of the Trinity because there is a sentence in the Bible that says: "there is one God existing as three persons equal in divine essence, but distinct in personhood." There is no sentence like that in the Bible. Rather the reason the church has embraced this doctrine is because the Bible unwaveringly speaks of one true God, not three Gods, and yet reveals the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit as God, and as distinct persons.
If this perplexes you, keep in mind: We are in no position as creatures to dictate to our Creator what he may or should be like. God is absolute reality. He was there before anything else was, and he did not come into being, but always was. Therefore nobody made him the way he is, and there is no reason he is the way he is. He simply is. That is his name: "I Am Who I Am" (Exodus 3:14). Our role is not to say what can and can't be in God, but to learn who he is and who we are, and to shape our lives according to his reality - his will. We submit to the way he is. He doesn't submit to the way we are or the way we think he should be.
One of the places where the third person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit, is revealed most fully is in Romans 8. We are focusing on his work today in verses 26-27, but it would be good for us to see what has been revealed so far about the work of the person of the Holy Spirit. What emerges in this chapter is that the Spirit is not just some force or power of God the Father, but a person who works along with the Father and in relation to the Father.
Here's an overview of what the Spirit does for us. And one of my goals in mentioning these things is that you might love the Spirit. Jesus said that the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all that you are. The Spirit is God. Therefore, you should love the Spirit - as a person. Not as a force or power, but as a person who thinks about you and has emotions for you and works for you - indeed, as we will see in a moment, prays for you.
According to verse 2 the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus sets you free from the law of sin and death.
According to verse 4 the Spirit helps you fulfill the just requirement of the law.
According to verse 6 the Spirit give life and peace.
According to verse 11 God will raise you from the dead by the Spirit who dwells in you.
According to verse 13 the Spirit helps you put to death the deeds of the body.
According to verse 14 the sons of God are led by the Spirit.
According to verses 15-16 the Spirit bears witness in us that we are the children of God and so gives us assurance of our salvation.
According to verse 23 the Holy Spirit is the foretaste and guarantee of our final redemption.
And now in verses 26-27 the Spirit helps us when we don't know how to pray as we should. That's what we want to look at this morning.
Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.
The word "likewise" at the beginning of verse 26 means that Paul has been giving help to us in what he has been saying and now he wants to give us some more help by explaining that the Spirit himself helps us. The way he has been helping us is by telling us why our sufferings are worth enduring for Christ. All of verses 18-25 give reasons for why we should hold fast to our hope in the midst of futility and decay and groaning and death. Now Paul says, "likewise" - in the same way - the Holy Spirit helps us in our weakness.
Eternity is written in the hearts of men
SO TRUE
Blood is pumped by hearts THATS IT !
gowd sake
If what you said or imply is TRUE, that we are no more than physical, then in reality this must, as being truth, hold implications that if drawn out to its logical conclusions, should contain, shed light on, give explanation to ALL reality. But as it appears, you only bare witness to half the picture. And if what you said is just it. Then explain what is that ALSO in man that is as real as physical reality. I will use these for example while giving universal examples. Things like thought and emotions, both of which you employed even as you wrote your comment.
It would stand to reason that you thought and felt some way about Sacred Music Tribe's comment, that it moved you physically to reply. Which response is the manifest product of that inner working of thought and feeling, or maybe you believe your comment was all chemical or blood. Whatever you think. We physical beings know and witness that there are aspects of realities that are not tangible, they cannot be examined under a microscope but are nonetheless reality.
Whatever you thought and felt about what Sacred Music Tribe wrote, had you not commented, your thoughts and feelings would have been no less real than had they remained in your own knowledge and possession of them. But of your own choice and desire, you went public and provided proof of your thought by your comment. Which was known only to yourself before you went public. Likewise, God, who before He ever created, alone knew His own existence thought and plans and had He not created or out His own desire to make Himself know and shared, He would have remained known only to Himself. We exist to know and be known. Evidenced in many ways..conversation/dialog in all its expressions are one proof. Be it pleasant or not.
People are driven to make their points known, partly because they think and feel that their point is valid & valuable and should be heard. And this we find true of malevolent and benevolent motives alike, they ultimately want to be shared (that is agreed with). For that is its satisfying and consummate end. And if not, then why make it known at all, for it will be an end in itself if the sharer amongst many things did not seek to gain also an agreement. Which also reflects what God seeks from rational creatures He's made in His own eternal image. We were made to witness all that exist by Him including ourselves and draw the overwhelming conclusion that He is unfathomably awesome and true and worthy to be loved and worshipped for His manifest eternal worth, which He abundantly communicates through all that He has made. To which a denial of, is sin against Him. Since He has made it plain through all that is(exist). So His truth abounds still through doubts unaffected, incorruptible and unfailingly true. Which makes Him trustworthy, faithful an everlasting rock that a wise man builds upon.
To deny the reality of thought and emotion one should have to employ them both to take whichever stance he take..which only lands one back at the reality of thought and emotion.
Weather one accepts or denies, these realities exist as objectively true and bears witness to all objective subjects as subjectively true as well, from which point the sum of these vantage points, points us past themselves and ourselves, to something far greater. The eternal One has written eternity in our hearts.
@@JesusISdaonlyway WTF was that about ? Honestly did it make any sense to you at all ? Thoughts emotions = a sky pixie ? thats one fucking HUGE leap.
I dont deny reality as you seem to suggest. I also dont add onto reality shit that has zero proof at all !
Prove me wrong be the first theist in history to prove the existence of a supernatural being in any tangible way !
I am betting tho all you have is the same old shit that has been totally debunked but go ahead try me !
Till they burn all the books
A Christian does not have faith in Christianity, but in Christ.
That means concreatly entering into the Church the renewed people of Israel ("believe and be baptised every one of you") of which he is the Lord and King enthroned at the right hand of the Father, led on Earth by those who succeed Peter and the Apostles, the Father's, leaders and officers he chose to lead it untill he comes again, against which Church the gates of Hades, ie. the power of death can never prevail according to His promise.
@@daneryan7424 This dude right here gets it
Dane Ryan
Nope
Another way to understand that truth - the way I understand it - is "You can't know God propositionally, you can only know Him relationally." You can know all about Him propositionally, but you can only know Him relationally.
A person named 'Zombie Fool' is trying to clean up the doctrinal language of a great minister.
Let's have some appreciation for George MacDonald, a generation before but who spurred both Tolkien and Lewis to consider Christ as Lord, even when Lewis rejected Christ in his early years.
Mike Nicholson ❤️
👍👍
Amen
George Mcdonald was a Great writer.
This is a masterpiece and an edifying blessing to all the Church.
Myth in ways seem truer sometimes. The gospel seems like myth in it's grand nature but it is the truth. It's all in the story teller.
The Gospel seems like a myth (To most), because it appears to be "too good to be true," which I also believe to be true. The love of Jesus seems to be something unfathomable, which it is.
And I think this is in part due to how God concealed truth in His Word just as Jesus did through parables, so that as we seek - we will find.
"There is no tale ever told that men would rather find was true, and none which so many sceptical men have accepted as true on its own merits."
Wow
I respect Tolkien for having his own reasons for believing
I was religious and believed for 24 years, then I turned agnostic, but still, this video is touching and makes me wonder...
Thank you for your comment and for watching Iván. I'm praying for you as well a I believe the questions of who Jesus i to us and where we will spend eternity is the most important question in our lives. I would encourage you to read again the gospel of John and study the life of Jesus Christ. Also this video: czcams.com/video/Ucnf4rm75Fk/video.html has a helpful and good gospel presentation and takes you through the scriptures, I hope you will find time to watch it. God bless you!
All that is needed is a genuine prayer, to God, if he is real, to show himself to you. But be ready for an answer, in what may be a creative, yet personal way
@@CreationBrosZone-km5be What do you mean by this?
I was just reading the part of The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe to my son..the part of Aslan as a sacrificial offering.....and we both cried knowing TRUTH. It is all about the cross or the stone tablet!
I am not religious, but I can't help but envy those who fully believe in something that helps them get through life, gives them meaning and helps them see beauty and hope. For me, escaping into the beauty of Tolkien's books is what is getting me through, and I'm grateful for that and everything that inspired it.
Are you a believer yet? If not what's stopping you. You already said you envy them. You can believe and receive everything you just described today if you chose to
@@trey5768 I'm not sure you can just 'choose' to believe in something...I left Christianity because I didn't connect with it on many levels, and didn't agree with a lot of its ideas. But I still think I would like more spirituality in my life, and I've been getting that through connecting with nature. I just don't think organised religion is my thing, too much human corruption within it.
@@CelebrianUndomiel Try to speak with Jesus on a personal level, i know it's hard but i urge you to try. We will always be sinners but he gave us a way.
@@walterjunior1254 I’ve already made the decision that Christianity is not for me. Respectfully, I didn’t make this comment for people to try to convert me or change my mind.
The myths, the legends, the power to create stories is one of God's greatest gifts to Mankind. With it, we should praise Him just as Lewis and Tolkien did. This world is dark because the people who rule it are dark in their souls, they listen to the Prince of this World. We find in the works of Lewis and Tolkien that goodness still triumphs because they believe in Jesus Christ above all else. Only with this realization can Mankind rise from the ashes and become truly beautiful.
This is why I couldn't be drawn into A Song of Ice and Fire. Don't get me wrong, it's a good series with deep complexity, but you can get the drift of George's nihilistic views on people as all being negative and dualistic. He understands people but ultimately and secretly hates them. Moral characters are given a single dot of darkness to be grey, and seemingly evil and conniving characters given some silver lining to be considered not wholly black.
Every story these days has to be so edgy and redefining the whole theme of light vs. dark. That poignant grey vs. grey dynamic to how humans actually are. Why yes it's true, but would you consider Nazism, a human-born political system of evil and control and death permeate mankind (kind of like it has to this day) and be the belief system on which humanity should be judged upon? This world would be miserable if that were to come to pass.
George's views are depressing, and that's why Tolkien and even Lewis's worlds are going to remain timeless. They have such ambiguity in how things will resolve, but one thing is fundamental and certain: that love will triumph over hate, that no matter how much darkness and evil there is in this world. Good people will always find a way to make it better.
I didn't see A Song of Ice and Fire that way. Even the best people, the heroes we look up to, do have darkness below the surface and even the most evil villains in our world are capable of redemption. That's the nature of original sin. George RR Martin is a master at writing characters and a master at creating believable worlds.
George's story hasn't concluded yet I wont judge it yet as such.. But alot of his character's main motivation is Love. Sometimes it dooms them, but then it sometimes leads them to glory. You might only find it nihilistic because some of the events are based on gruesome history and it is less fantasical compared to Narnia or LOTR.
seraby George gave the reins to most of his story ideas and their resolutions to D&D for GoT. After seeing how much backlash the last season received it has intimidated George from finishing his stories’ plot points. Which is natural, every writer would. George is a good writer but it is his basis on history that creates a vacuum in his own writing as characters die and their spots are filled in by less-appealing characters. That’s the problem his books convey in my view.
To each their own, but I feel the theme for GoT isn’t as resonate as the more fantastical worlds that sci fi and fantasy are supposed to have. In fact, I’m not precisely certain what the theme George is trying to write about. Is it humans are evil, but are also good? Is it war is stupid? I can’t think of anymore that’s how vague his story’s thematics are. He’s an excellent writer but his work comes off shallow with it being unfinished in written format and if GoT is the representation of his vision, it did a poor job at it. I hope he goes a different direction and finishes the story, but it seems like the latter is not happening.
I agree, GoT is somehow dirty, while LotR is pure, In LotR the one who is good is completely good and the one who is bad is utterly bad. GoT characters are disappointing, you cannot tie yourself to them, they are not role models. Tolkien seems to have a goal of the story, he has his end and meaning, Martin seems to have no particular goal, at least by what he has written up to this moment.
@@blackbaron4774 Yes. But read the first and the second replies of this reply section again. No one is completely good or completely bad. Even God's wisest and most devoted prophets did some bad things.
Every time I would finish a wonderful book or a wonderful movie there came a bittersweet Moment when I knew I could never experience it again for the first time. That wonderful sense of discovery and newness was gone with the last word or the final scene; the story that was new was now forever old. When Jesus came in my heart I had a truly wonderful sense of discovery and newness that never ended, has never grown old. Jesus is the story of life.
The Music is so peaceful, touches your soul and quiets the Spirit!
This is so good. The music, of course, is wonderful too, but if there's a way to edit it so that it doesn't drown out what's being said, it might be help. Thank you for sharing though!
The music is too loud and vocal to easily understand Tim Keller. Beautiful lecture, easy fix (volume balance).
@@tyghr
I stopped listening,
The music is intrusive.
I'll seek a different reading without it.
The music isn't really that much of a problem, if you ask me.
@@supa4ys843 a portion towards the end that is way too loud. Fix that and the rest is ok
Completely agree
Tolkien and Lewis are the greatest fictional writers of all time!
This video is a work of art
Then I read the Word and my heart sings and my soul rejoices
because I know that I am Loved
and understood by my Lord.
The music is louder than needed... at times.
This music can never be loud enough
I appreciate the fact, that some people on the internet, actually know that Catholics are Christian. I have yet to read any JRR Tolkien, but I've been reading CS Lewis a lot.
Keep it up! C.S. Lewis was in many ways, the most caring human to Humanity, because of the writings he left us.
Catholics who trust in Christ ALONE are certainly Christians.
@@marycassidy1695 Giving what you said. Do you think it's a mistake to pray or put TRUST in the virgin Mary? Since it takes away from Jesus in a way? Your thoughts?
@@HighNoon23 I dont understand why some people think they need to pray to saints. Can you explain it to me? As i understand it, we can pray directly to Jesus, because when he died the veil in the temple was torn in two, which shows that we can come directly to God now, not only the priests. And the saints are "only" human, why should we pray to them? This is not ment to offend anybody. I just try to understand it.
If you like CS Lewis, read G.K. Chesterton!!! G.K.’s book “The Everlasting Man” helped Lewis overcome his atheism.
That is one of the best CZcams videos I have ever seen! Superb!
One of my favourite videos on youtube. Was watching it so many times :)
That's what I love about fiction and fantasy, especially. It speaks to what it means to be human.
How many of you know this in your hearts as true? I could not have done any research or seen any video about this stuff but the words are like you own because when something is true God will let you know in your heart.
That was incredibly powerful
Myths show us what humans want. Christ shows us what humans need. Understanding one can help us understand the other.
Great ideas. But I had to shut it off halfway because of the constant music in the background. Keller doesn't need a soundtrack.
The music added with the sermon made me cry. A bit loud, but an amazing mix!
The LotRs movies definitely pulled off "secondary belief" very well!
I'm more anti-religious than Christopher Hitchens, but this was a really nice video.
Same as me.
Ironically, the stories of Tolkien are profoundly more useful to an atheist (as I am as well) than I think they could possibly be for a theist.
Not sure if it quite possible to more anti-religious than Christopher Hitchens though.
Lance Walker true 😄
“Believe on the lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.”
No religious acts, rituals, etc.
I’m a Christian, but I’m not particularly fond of religious acts. They’re a futile attempt to make ones way to God when God has already made his way to us.
This video got me fighting back tears 🤣🤧
it's for these very reasons expressed in both the essay and and Tim Keller's words that I've been a longtime fan of Star wars and works of Lewis and Tolkien and comic books. I see pieces of the Bible and especially the Gospel in them yet because I was raised on the Bible, fiction is sequestered to it's proper place because I know that it's the breadcrumbs taken from the very bread of heaven.
Love this so much! Any idea where we can hear the original Tim Keller message??
I decided to read the New Testament all the way through a couple of months back. I had to get a parallel bible to allow me to better understand the text better. I am all the way to John 2 and slowly getting the message of it more clearly. The thing is, low brow intellect such as mine makes the Bible very difficult to fully grasp. That’s why I started listening to these type videos.
the Old and New Testaments ARE the Bible.
Love this video - would be even better if the music was either totally off or drastically reduced in volume. It is quite distracting. Thank you!
Christianity itself is not the end of it...Jesus Christ...seeking God and finding Him in His one true holy and completely perfect son...knowing His love, mercy, gentleness, grace, healing, joy, peace, forgiveness, long suffering, sacrifice...receiving Him into your heart...fully surrendered...the indwelling of His spirit...the Holy Spirit...that is both the beginning and the end.
God bless🙏🏽
We can live without facts and science, but we can't live without a mythos. The people in stories are more real for me than the shadows passing furtively on the street. One story I wrote had 4 characters, and I think of them each day. It's wonderful and strange. And Jesus ... is more real for me than any of the characters in stories.
Hey, cut out the adds in the video.
The beauty of this is that in large parts of the world if you are to tell a joke about a Ring or a Wardrobe there is probably a 90% chance that the joke will involve walking through the wardrobe or involve destroying the ring or calling it “my precious”. The reason that is so special is because to many of us the worlds and works of C.S Lewis and JRR Tolkien live within our secondary reality. I have discovered so many worlds in my imagination through reading and I don’t think I’d have ever been given that gift had I not been introduced to the worlds these two created.
Thanks for this video-wish it was longer! ✝️
I wish CSLewis had said that “he believed in Christ rather than Christianity( which is many things) as he sees the sun(Son) rising he sees it and by it he sees everything else”.
4:27 I can see it biblically "He has set eternity in our hearts."
Great video. Powerful. Thank you!
profound and beautiful. There is another world - but it is within this one.
I disagree with the conclusion but I understand and agree with the premise. I am an atheist. Maybe not athiest. Agnostic with a firm belief that whatever IS out there isnt of this earth. I agree that human beings do have this innate need for the the mystical and fantastic. That love and desire for good to triumph over evil. I think those are worthy areas of interest. And this only makes me respect Tolkein more. I'm by no means a Christian. I don't personally ascribe to it. But I see why he did. And as my absolute favorite author of all time its comforting to see things I have always felt to some degree. I think that faith and a lot of innate human values like that of goodness and true humanism have some greater meaning in terms of our existence. Whether its scientific or by some means a mystical source from which we do not yet know
This is powerful! Thank you kindly for sharing this.
This expresses exactly what I'd like to say about great fiction (or write into some of my own!). It shows what we long for in the real world - how the world should be, and how religions and traditions have a story as a framework to understand the world - but there are so many stories - true, partly-true, legend, fiction, and who's to say which is the most true for the real world if there is a Big Story behind it all - I think we all come to our own conclusions about that - or just believe what we are told - until we come across something better that makes more sense.The battle between good and evil is easier to recognise in fiction - it's got very complex and mixed up in the real world where things aren't so black and white!
The background music is beautiful - but it is too loud and it is distracting.
It's the grey havens music from return of the king...
Thanks for this video
Aslan and Frodo live!
Thank God and JRR Tolkien they are together still.
Thank you for this amazing video and explanation
wow this is extraordinary
It really is
Watching this in tears.
(Not a great look. I'm 64.)
Thank You.
The tragic thing is Tolkien actually didn't like the Narnia books when Lewis showed him the manuscript. He didn't approve of the mixing different mythologies together, and definitely didn't like throwing in a secular character like Father Christmas. It's things like that that make me feel I'd rather have met Lewis. Tolkien I think I'd rather recognize from a distance.
Our imagination IS Jesus. Only through imagination we reach God. Secondary believe is the Real Reality, Creation in it`s whole infinite state! We make it come to life by FEELING
I adore Tolkien and enjoy Lewis; I fundamentally disagree with their theological conclusions but have the greatest respect for the arguments, especially Tolkien's, and would give everything to go back in a time machine and stroll along the riverbank debating the great mysteries of Life & Death and with these two literary titans.
Finish up in the Bird & Baby to wash it all down with a couple of pints, of course!!
The honest seeker of truth has no need to lie about what or where purpose is, because he is too glad to have found it to say anything otherwise.
Very nice- Gained some wisdome ;)
Could the producers of youtube video learnedwhen and how to insert background music? I does nt need continuous music played loud overwhelming the narator.
Stfu and listen stop complaining
The most important thing that modern people need to understand is that physics proves a supernatural world. God is real.
The one thing that needs to be said is that Jesus and the resurrection ARE just another beautiful story BUT we CHOSE to believe this one. As nobody was there for any of the powerful things that happened in the Bible or the horrific things. The entire thing could be one big story and if it is and it has affected as many lives as it has , then maybe the true authors really did have divine inspiration. No other collection of stories has ever come close to this one particularly powerful story. Even an atheist could see that. For whatever reason , the majority of people on the planet latched onto this story and never let it go. It’s not a bad thing. It’s only a bad thing when people use religion to back their vile causes ( which is an attempt at arguing from a position of authority. ).
All the stories ever told borrow their power from THE story, that things were once good, evil entered, and a deliverer came to rescue us all from evil. There is no other story. We've been telling ourselves the same story since the beginning of the world.
This is epic. :)
Nature is teaching us that every end is a beginning,life goes on and love conquers all 💞👑🌟.God is life and love.
12:52 Wow. Music from "the Sword of Stranger".
Beautiful!
I just stumbled on a video saying that Tolkien was burning in Hell and the 'The Lord of the Rings' is Satanic. Thank God these people are in a minority of the fanatical fringe. Judge not, lest you too may be judged. They might have missed that one.
Reminds me of a bumper sticker i seen the other day..”God wants spirit filled fruits not religious nuts “ lol
@@lifewasgiventous1614 this was only a short distance from dangerous fundamentalism making assumptions about the spiritual fate of Tolkien and others. Lots of hate.
Betting a good $100 that the guy saying that was most likely a protestant.
Mormon myself so people will tell me I have no right to talk but protestants tend to have borderline nutty ideas that make it hard for me to listen to them.
Dugon man you believe you God was a man on another planet...
@@dugonman8360And Mormon mythology has no nutty ideas ? give me a brake
There are 2 types of Atheists: (A) Logical & (B) Emotional. "Mere Christianity" by C.S. Lewis converts any Type-A Atheist who thoughtfully reads it.
Beautiful
J. Tolkien had a larger comprehensive view of world spirituality, and there is No direct reference to Christianity in the Lord of the Rings, though there are analogies. I do Not know how the author knew in details about word for word conversations between C. Lewis and J. Tolkien. Blessed be the memory of Isha.
Sword of the Stranger music at the end huh? Wasn't expecting that
“The Hero’s Journey!”
this nostalgia. I cry
From an imaginative and phycological standpoint,
Sort of experiencing something fundamental in, kind of human experience. It is a big idea that captures the imagination, that really taps into something important in the human psyche, connects with people’s souls. That’s why I think it is not just something that was popular at a particular period of time with a particular group of people but continue s to touch generation after generation.
Never understand why music gets played on these videos
Can anyone tell me where to find a print of the painting, early in the video, of Tolkien and Lewis strolling on Addison's Walk?
Thanks for the adverts.
Awesome work!
Wait, so no one is gonna comment on Gandalf? Dying protecting the fellowship and going into to the grave(sheol), "ressurecting" as gandalf the white(after ascending to the highest place of the world), to then come back(second coming) and save everyone ? If that isn´t a symbol of Christ i don´t know what is. And the question is if our lord and saviour likes us to idolize characters like Gandalf, which take the saviours role on his shoulders. One thing is missing tough, where is his father? We´re are the all powerfull being that created everything?
Just because a book is about fighting evil doesn´t make it christian. And just because it´s fiction doesn´t take away the fact that people won´t idolize the work. There are millions of tolkien fans that have no idea or clue about Jesus Christ and the Father in heaven but instead are immersed in the world of Tolkien and other science fiction worlds.
What is even Evil in the tolkien world? Without a creator above everything else who is all knowing and all powerful, which his world seems to lack completely, how can we determine what evil is ? Definitely not with Christian terms, because our God and creator are totally absent. So in his books Sauron could be right, Saruman could be right, Gandalf could be right, the ents could be right etc.
We ourselfs put christian values on a book that is not christian, and cheers for one side because they seem to behave more like christians would and the other side more like evil should, when infact it´s a world where the beings living there decides what´s right and wrong, not God.
peace
Tim Keller sounds like Jeff goldblum
You CANNOT allow ads on this video.
Great video! Only thing for me was the inopportune commercials. Just when it comes to the parts that are deep and insightful, you gets loud random commercial. I know people have to make money, but sometimes the message should outweigh the profit. That aside, awesome and true!
Gilbert Perdomo Get CZcams Red-it costs, but it’s worth it if you spend a lot of time on YT