What we usually do in schools is put a small sub-board in the practical rooms so that it is easy to reset the RCB's when needed, and we usually have one key switch (instead of the red button) at the teachers desk to turn on and off all power to the students desks, we found the kids loved to mess with the red button too much and it allows the teacher to only allow the students to use the equipment when they switched it on Also thanks for not cutting the data cables the amount of times I had to re run them because someone wasn't thinking ahead Also my electrician recently replaced a few light fixtures for Led's similar to the ones you put up but they had the ability to click in a small emergency pod in the centre of the panel really neat little panels
As a student also, I’d agree. It’s useful to have a sub-board in the practical rooms because if the RCD trips then it’s useful to not have to call facilities management staff to come and reset it at a central location, the teacher present could just flick the switch. Also, the red mushroom buttons weren’t played to too badly where I was, although the option to lock them was there...
In Australia - we sub-board EVERYTHING. A 3 phase supply to the room, then a DB with DIN contactors. Neat and tidy, lower-labor fees for yanking cable.
decent tone and probe will make it easy enough to identify the cables, easier than re-running anyhow! although most people will want to upgrade their cabling these days anyway so probably be a new run of cat 6a and just use em as a pull rope 🙁
With cables above suspended ceilings we need to remember the 'premature collapse' reg.521.10.202 That ceiling will come down in a fire of a good size, that 'spaghetti' is going to be a deadly hazard to firefighters. I believe any retrospective work should include making safe that spaghetti, quote for it at the outset - even if your just replacing 1 light fitting.
loose cannon well done ? I was just about to quote that myself ? Stainless steel zip or not there shouldn’t be any extra weight added to the ceiling fixings as well ? I’ve seen so many false ceilings collapse due this sort of thing
Correct we need remenber 521.10.202 , unfortunately you need to quote whats on the spec on not forward think, (subject to if you observe a C1, you need to win the work THEN on the 1st site visit let the client know and get as a extra, it you cost in work at tender stage not on the spec you will lose the work , as others will go for a extra after winning the job
As for those LED emergency lights, it's best to run those non-maintained. When running in maintained they would usually stay on 24/7 like the one in the background at 17:11. When the LEDs are running 24/7 they will soon reach their rated lifetime which is usually around 30,000 hours. I'd say LED emergency lights are acceptable for using in non-maintained mode but for maintained, I'd still use the fluorescent ones because they of course have replaceable tubes. When the LED ones reach the end of their life the whole fitting will have to be replaced rather than a simple change of tube.
i installed one of those klick connectors in our dining room for the low hanging light above the table so when we have parties or loads of people around the table gets moved aside and the pendant gets unhooked. the downlighters keep the place lit.
Nice job that, we do lots of schools, your EM Stop button will need to have a key lock off so the teacher can leave the room locked off when they leave. We usually pull a new sub main to the kitchen and have a local db in the kitchen. Going off track we tend to put T&E in dado trunking as some of the kids like to pull lid off and cut singles with scissors 😑
That's Rehau trunking! Good stuff and lot cheaper than Marshall tuflex etc. Also bottom lid is part of the carcass so negates need to fit bottom lid as per other makes!! Saves time as a result. We used to get ours from Bemco wholesalers
Looked like a 72KVA intake ,a lot of primary schools have that size but not with a home ecomonics room, if its a secondary school seems pretty tight inatke size Use 32a Radials 4.0mm in LFS twin & earth forget rings, have done loads in the london schools, with diversity its down to experience, throw away that on site guide table, extremely unlikey that all hobs / ovens would be on , ventilation never a problem, all the best Tom Also i would consider a seperate board in the intake with i1 main contactor to bring on the board or 2no: 63A 4 pole contactor set up ( subject to design ) and a single stop/start by teachers desk, very rare for independant switches to control each circuit, bit of a waste and overkill in my opinion 4k -5 K value, All the best tom
No need to use maintenance free connectors before the driver. Connect the flex from the klik box straight into the driver . Much quicker and means 1 less joint plusxsaves on materials. Been doing it for last year or so. As long as the flex is no thicker than 0.75mm which pre made kliks are....then you're sorted mate.
How you are going to do that job you have priced for is exactly how I would had thought to do it, spot on. I estimate the job would be roughly £5,500 plus VAT. I wouldn't do it any different to how you explained. What a great job. What light panels are they I do recognise those, only thing to be careful of is how thin they are, iv known some to sag in the middle over time. Do they come pre flexed aswel? Only thing I would probably do differently is that I would had wired the flex directly from the klick into the driver. That way the only connections are at the driver and at the klick plug. These are great in commercial premises where isolating a circuit isnt possible, you can just unplug the fitting for maintenance purposes. Not alot that can be done with the cabling from the klick boxes though. Sometimes you got to be careful you dont price yourself out of the work.
We have those LED panels in our office at work. Been there about 5 years now without any issues. Some of my collegues have had issues with glare from the light directly above them, and we've found the connector between the panel and the driver is really handy as it means you can independently disable individual panels without affecting the rest of the grid.
i'd use a multicore YY for the gridswitch/EM stop by the door. feed the gridswitch itself through the em stop button so it breaks the feed to every contactor in one go. also means you only have to pull one cable up to the gridswitch. Also maybe 4mm radials for each station?
Laurence Hucker you know I was sitting thinking how I would connect the e stop to all the contactors for separate circuits, but that works perfect! Is it ok to use the same feed for a1 of each contactor? Thanks!
If you need a way to connect the return from the EM stop to the common of each gridswitch, you could do worse that look at the Phoenix Contacts Distribution Block (e.g. P/N 3002758).
YY Should not be used for fixed wiring/final circuits. I think that was a change in the 18th, same goes for SY. Give it a google, the problem seems to be B.S 7671 does not recognize them being manufactured to a Britsh Standard, think they made to a German spec.
@@nickbuckle646 cable not being to a BS can be covered by declaring a deviation from BS7671 on the installation certificate. That would apply to NYY (hi tough) too in addition to SY and YY, although I wouldn't be surprised if there's actually a BS that they happen to comply with... There's another reg on not using flexible cable for fixed wiring too, but it doesn't apply to control circuits, so contactors should be ok. EDIT: might be worth reading articles such as this, as there is certainly more to the argument www.whyprysmian.co.uk/sy-yy-cy-cable.html
AT&T(GB) in Brentford stock that Rehau trunking mate, and they're still open to the public, just closed on Saturdays now. Recently fitted a load of it.
I know we can all see you grafting away on the jobs you choose to portray on you tube, but I must say how impressed I am at the condition in which your tools, (and your whole van for that matter) are kept - being in such mint condition. Has lockdown availed you more time with which to keep them mint and much more organised than your average joe spark? Good show!
Them LED grid fittings can be fit with a battery backup, turning them into emergency lights. These are far brighter than the bulkhead lights and neatens up the ceiling more. Very easy to do as well
Great video Tom. Something to watch during this lockdown!!! Looks like one of them jobs that leads to more work the access control stuff looks interesting.
Suggest you don't show your keys when locking your van. Shifty geezer can make a duplicate just by seeing the dimples etc on the key when you show and turn it. If you doubt me, watch the *LockPickingLawyer* 's channel. If you don't know his channel or another lock picking one, he will scare the crap out of you on how quick locks can be picked or opened by other means.
With regards to cable on ceiling grid, you can buy ceiling grid clips that sit on the grid and have a plastic top that can hold upto 8 cables (maybe more if needed) we used then on a university in Liverpool
I recently installed some very similar 2'x4' LED fixtures in an elementary school here in the US. Interesting to see that y'all aren't required to safety wire the fixtures to the ceiling with steel wire, and can just lay them in the grid. In my state it's required that each fixture have a minimum of two safety wires to hold the fixtures in case the ceiling grid collapses. I think it's kind of silly with the light weight LED fixtures, but it makes plenty of sense for the older florescence fixtures. Those things are heavy!
Quick comment on cable selection: if allowed by local code some kind of multicore wire (e.g. Oelflex 12g0.75mm², higher count if you need returns for "on" indication) might be making sense for the contactor switches (shared supply) and also the emergency switch (dedicated pair). If you are concerned about the insulation put into a flex tube. Saves time and space. Makes everythin very neat because you run one cable from the control box to your contactor box.
You could run a 3 phase supply up to the room and install a little Control panel housing all the contactors, RCBOs, emergency switches etc.A little more design and MCP cost but wiring would be a doddle. I would do Radials to each appliance and a ring for the sockets as normal. It would be easy to get a cost for a little panel purpose built for the job.
00:00 ooh somebody's been watchin Edgar Wright movies for editing tips 🙂🙂 For the cables I think I would have left them over the grid. The ceiling should be fire rated? plus there's the metal grid to prevent premature collapse? And I think it would be safer. If there was a risk of premature collapse, it would look like sorting that out would be a seperate job. But I'm sitting at a keyboard and not at the job so don't have a clue.
Hi Tom, I would put a seperate Distribution Board in a corner in the kitchen which would feed the entire kitchen, including sockets etc.. Every hob would be on their own circuit and the contactors with the emergency push button on theirs. Price wise it could be around £4k. Looking forward to see the end result. They are removing the sockets to prevent kids from charging their phones/devices. Cheers.
In Australia it is againts the regs (Illegal) to tie cables or anything to floating ceiling hangers, you have to mount Cat Wires across the roof void and tie everything to those
Exactly my thoughts aj but its funny watching how the poms work it blows my mind australia seems to have a better standard in my opinion than alot of other countries LOL all
Rehau Profila Compact, we use it all the time and get it no problem from Edmundsons Carlisle. Your branch should be able to source it from another branch in the Edmundsons group. Nice vid, interesting as usual👍
The paxton door system they have with the emergency exits we use at our school. Its setup so the emergency buttons if pressed trigger a relay on the Paxton system so it emails us. A lot of places don't even alarm them so you can simply press it and walk out! We're yet to find another school with a similar setup.
I hope you marked the ends of the data cables with their original socket IDs. As someone who works in IT, this is one of the most frustrating things when data cabling is cut or disconnected but not marked as to where it previously went.
I would install a DB in the room fed via a contactor installed within the incomer section fed 16mm 5 core SWA (depending on loading) abd controlled with a lockable E stop at the teachers desk. This should prevent having all 8 circuits being fed through the same contactor enclosure preventing the danger when working on 1 contactor. Id put a 2A MCB on the auxiliary circuit to protect it. Like someone mentioned before id go for a 4mm T+E LSF radial to each station and keep 1 row on the same phase to prevent 400V between the 2 work stations.. although this will leave 1 phase with a higher load should they have a full class. I couldnt properly see but the 250A main switch is usually a switch disconector BSEN60947-3 so the 250A rating is the maximum current it can break when switching? Unless its a BSEN60947-2 which is an MCCB so it should have a dial underneath the switch at 0.8 - 1 x? Usually the incomer fuses are at 200A for a 250A switch disconnector so will probably need to check first. Ideally probably could have done with a load test when the school is open to check what its current load demand is before installing. Hope it helps and good luck
Those CP3 Emergency terminals are quite nice you can set them up with both internal summer and 10 second delay timer if you have fire alarm signal on the Access control system. Also they are resettable which is awesome. Edit: It also turns red when triggered
I'm thinking 5 days £5800 including the day you spent modifying the trunkings and the led lights and allowing a day for board work and testing My only thought is key switches to isolate with separate neons so you can tell when each circuit is energised
Nice 👍 it’s a good idea to get a secondary fixing on stuff sitting in the grid in schools something like gripples usually they panels come with little right angle brackets got called to a school years ago where the kid had been whacked on the leg with a speaker tile after they’d been messing about with a ball made a right mess of the lads leg spent about 3 days adding gripples to everything in the school. And Rehau is a rexel brand might be worth a quick call to see if they can source you an end cap
32A RCBO for each bay. 6mm radial to each bay via a contactor. 6mm into a JB Run 4mm T&E from JB to oven. Separate 4mm for hob 3rd 4mm to sockets. Control wire from grid switch to contactor to isolate the whole bay.
Pricing a commercial job as someone who isn't quite used to thinking in those terms is quite difficult, and the actual price is probably several times higher than I initially expected, but still a very fair price (just outside of what I'm used to). As my initial hunch was around 2 grand, a better price would probably be somewhere in the ₤10,000 to ₤20,000 range.
Alright mate just asking have you heard of the emergency panel pods? Basically it’s a small pod that fits on top the panel which means you don’t need the bulkheads mounted on the surface of the ceiling tiles. Gives off a good amount of light in emergency mode and a very nice neat finish! Great vid mate keep it up. 👍🏼
Couldn't of thought of any other example of how much of a shit hole your van is? Would you rip the piss into a downsyndrome or a diabetic etc? Arsehole let's hope you never get diagnosed with epilepsy and you have to stop working because they take your driving licence
Is their spare capacity for the additional load, looked like it was only 100amp incomer, didn't see any ct's. Is their existing school kitchen all electric, if it is, you may need an upgrade on the incoming supply.
Anthony charles a lot of schools especially older schools have what looks like 100a supply but have the fuses graded and a CT meter fitted so used load can be monitored by the DNO. Strange the school doesn’t already have a home economics class.
Main switch was 250A with what looked like a direct reading meter. Adjacent sub boards with 100 and 125A with lots of spare ways unless i'm missing something?
Dunno about in Euro, but here in the states. Each light is supposed to have 2 points of support. (we use ceiling wire, labeled separately for the electricians) And we support the wires off that, as we arnt allowed to use other trades support. If you wanted you should have charged them to do that. Cause right now that craps not gonna fly, Literally. :p
Bet those Eaton RCBO’s won’t be cheap? LSF cable as it’s a school, have to watch the phasing and loads on the ovens too. - run a multicore to the switch put the common through the em stop first sounds like a nice job £1k materials £2.5k labour plus VAT but probably double that for London and lockdown work
At the start of the video you see an i/o unit on wall connected to a fireray 5000 controller I think so probably higher out of shot there was a beam detector.
Hi mate just a heads up on the fire alarm panel for future, it’s an addressable adt panel so hard to get the sortware for laptop programming unless you know someone who works/used to work for adt. If you come across faults with devices etc you would need to get adt to programme the heads with address etc which they charge a pretty penny to do. Hope this is of help mate.
Hi Tom. Just to make you aware that Fire alarm system is closed protocol by ADT. Unless you know someone you may struggle to swap parts on the system. Great video tho!
Regarding the contactors, not sure what the security is on the classrooms but do you plan on putting in a master key isolator for the workstations? I.e "one key to rule them all" to prohibit some miscreant turning things on whilst staff are unaware?
I sugest push buttons with indicator light for contactors. Also enclosure with some sound isolation would be a good thing. Clients like silence operation of stuff you install, just an idea...
I would say put the switches for the contactors in a locked box so that only faculty staff have access. And for the red button, maybe find one that buzzes loudly if the cover is open? Or something similar, maybe even one you have to smash the cover? Putting a button like that in a well traveled area (especially by the main point of egress) is asking for problems.
Why didn’t you fit emergency battery packs to the led panels instead of those emergency bulkheads? When I fitted panels at a taxi firm they were blown away with the performance and how flush they were with the ceiling. And yes there were green little charge leds 😊 Brilliant video as always 😊
LED's do generate alot of heat. Hence why they have a Aluminium backplate. Personally i would try to keep the transformer block away from the rear of each panel. Given they will reach 60-70c.
Alternative to thw bulkheads in a room like that we would just fit some emergency led panels.. Just the same as you fitted but you buy an additional emergency pack.
I don't know..but i would try to use that normal outside light ..as extra in that room where you placed all those led lights.. Because you can see that there is outside light coming to that roof..and it would be bad if you didn't use it.,..but ofc it is not up to you but up to customer..
Rehau is a plastics manufacturer here in Scotland. Tbh I thought they only made uPVC window profiles but that's where that trunking comes from it seems
If possible could you do a how to series? I'm a bms electrical apprentice. So as you can guess I dont do anything involving lightning systems, Or fire alarm. Or perhaps explain the basics as you would if you were teaching someone. Awesome video by the way.
I think what should have been suggested to the client was extra kick boxs been put in place above the ceiling most of the flex lengths above the ceiling is crazy, the max flex distance should not exceed 3meters hence reducing the probability of premature collapse and support required. In regard cable tie to ceiling supports is a bad idea and would cause the ceiling grid to belly and warp its shape over time!
From working in a school. Maks sure you put the main emergency button inside a cover. The amount of times the students "lean" on it and cut the power is frustrating. We use them with keys to re-enable them...which means a visit from us... Ask the school whether they want the staff computer and the projector to be included in it as well. It can cause real damage to the projector if the power is pulled while the bulb is on and the flap on that Hitachi a220 projector is open. When they power off they run the fan for a little while after to cool the bulb to prevent damage. This obviously doesnt happen. Ask the school where they want the desk. If it is away from the wall as you describe. Run a large pipe under the floor from the wall to the access panel in the floor so the cables are able to be run to it. Put in pull cables so they can run extra lines as needed. Install a modular "wall plate" so they can choose what inputs they need to use...eg VGA hdmi and sound etc. Hope all of this helps.
Hope you get the work, looks like an interesting install. You may have already designed the control panel. I was wondering are you going to use relays and spring return grid switches so when the emergency button is released, that all 8 contactors don't slam close at the same time. I would space out the contactors in a control panel with ventilation.
I would add one red push button per side - so the students can cut the power to the systems as well when something goes majorly wrong. I would use one red button for the teach(with a key) and one cable per "trunk" and also two power feed down to the fuse box, each 32A. It should be plenty. Don't overengineer that stuff.
The printing on the trunking is partially written in german. It says "Unterteil" which translates to "bottom part". I think that if you search for it at german distributors you may be able to find it. I am not at all an expert, so I can't guarantee that it is actually available there. Hope it helps, Greetings from germany
What we usually do in schools is put a small sub-board in the practical rooms so that it is easy to reset the RCB's when needed, and we usually have one key switch (instead of the red button) at the teachers desk to turn on and off all power to the students desks, we found the kids loved to mess with the red button too much and it allows the teacher to only allow the students to use the equipment when they switched it on
Also thanks for not cutting the data cables the amount of times I had to re run them because someone wasn't thinking ahead
Also my electrician recently replaced a few light fixtures for Led's similar to the ones you put up but they had the ability to click in a small emergency pod in the centre of the panel really neat little panels
Great advices 👍🏻👍🏻
I completely agree, as a 16 year old student myself.
This is how our refurbished science labs are set up (for electrics and gas).
Those lights are a good idea and very neat, plus they self test as well, good if you don't have a key switch, they are made by Ansell.
As a student also, I’d agree. It’s useful to have a sub-board in the practical rooms because if the RCD trips then it’s useful to not have to call facilities management staff to come and reset it at a central location, the teacher present could just flick the switch. Also, the red mushroom buttons weren’t played to too badly where I was, although the option to lock them was there...
In Australia - we sub-board EVERYTHING. A 3 phase supply to the room, then a DB with DIN contactors. Neat and tidy, lower-labor fees for yanking cable.
speaking as someone who fits data cabling, just want to say thank you for coiling them up and not just cutting them off 🥳
Agreed, but if he didn't mark which socket they originally went to then you've still got to retrace them out again?
decent tone and probe will make it easy enough to identify the cables, easier than re-running anyhow! although most people will want to upgrade their cabling these days anyway so probably be a new run of cat 6a and just use em as a pull rope 🙁
With cables above suspended ceilings we need to remember the 'premature collapse' reg.521.10.202
That ceiling will come down in a fire of a good size, that 'spaghetti' is going to be a deadly hazard to firefighters. I believe any retrospective work should include making safe that spaghetti, quote for it at the outset - even if your just replacing 1 light fitting.
loose cannon he did say metal clips...
loose cannon well done ? I was just about to quote that myself ? Stainless steel zip or not there shouldn’t be any extra weight added to the ceiling fixings as well ? I’ve seen so many false ceilings collapse due this sort of thing
Correct we need remenber 521.10.202 , unfortunately you need to quote whats on the spec on not forward think, (subject to if you observe a C1, you need to win the work THEN on the 1st site visit let the client know and get as a extra, it you cost in work at tender stage not on the spec you will lose the work , as others will go for a extra after winning the job
What do you do about the deadly spaghetti that is the collapsed ceiling?
@@edcooper2396 that would be on the floor. The same can't be said about the wiring.
As for those LED emergency lights, it's best to run those non-maintained. When running in maintained they would usually stay on 24/7 like the one in the background at 17:11. When the LEDs are running 24/7 they will soon reach their rated lifetime which is usually around 30,000 hours. I'd say LED emergency lights are acceptable for using in non-maintained mode but for maintained, I'd still use the fluorescent ones because they of course have replaceable tubes. When the LED ones reach the end of their life the whole fitting will have to be replaced rather than a simple change of tube.
i installed one of those klick connectors in our dining room for the low hanging light above the table so when we have parties or loads of people around the table gets moved aside and the pendant gets unhooked. the downlighters keep the place lit.
Mounted the same type of LED panels in Norway as well, love them. You can also mount them in roofs with a tiny housing where you just slide it in.
Nice job that, we do lots of schools, your EM Stop button will need to have a key lock off so the teacher can leave the room locked off when they leave. We usually pull a new sub main to the kitchen and have a local db in the kitchen. Going off track we tend to put T&E in dado trunking as some of the kids like to pull lid off and cut singles with scissors 😑
You should not be interfering with Darwin!
Great video as usual I must admit watching your videos have inspired me to start my own channel for my construction company keep up the good work
Go for it
That's Rehau trunking! Good stuff and lot cheaper than Marshall tuflex etc. Also bottom lid is part of the carcass so negates need to fit bottom lid as per other makes!!
Saves time as a result. We used to get ours from Bemco wholesalers
I’ve got 3 of those panels in my garage and 2 in my shed..super clean light and easy to fit
Looked like a 72KVA intake ,a lot of primary schools have that size but not with a home ecomonics room, if its a secondary school seems pretty tight inatke size
Use 32a Radials 4.0mm in LFS twin & earth forget rings, have done loads in the london schools, with diversity its down to experience, throw away that on site guide table, extremely unlikey that all hobs / ovens would be on , ventilation never a problem, all the best Tom
Also i would consider a seperate board in the intake with i1 main contactor to bring on the board or 2no: 63A 4 pole contactor set up ( subject to design ) and a single stop/start by teachers desk, very rare for independant switches to control each circuit, bit of a waste and overkill in my opinion 4k -5 K value, All the best tom
No need to use maintenance free connectors before the driver. Connect the flex from the klik box straight into the driver . Much quicker and means 1 less joint plusxsaves on materials.
Been doing it for last year or so. As long as the flex is no thicker than 0.75mm which pre made kliks are....then you're sorted mate.
How you are going to do that job you have priced for is exactly how I would had thought to do it, spot on. I estimate the job would be roughly £5,500 plus VAT. I wouldn't do it any different to how you explained. What a great job.
What light panels are they I do recognise those, only thing to be careful of is how thin they are, iv known some to sag in the middle over time.
Do they come pre flexed aswel? Only thing I would probably do differently is that I would had wired the flex directly from the klick into the driver. That way the only connections are at the driver and at the klick plug.
These are great in commercial premises where isolating a circuit isnt possible, you can just unplug the fitting for maintenance purposes.
Not alot that can be done with the cabling from the klick boxes though.
Sometimes you got to be careful you dont price yourself out of the work.
We have those LED panels in our office at work. Been there about 5 years now without any issues. Some of my collegues have had issues with glare from the light directly above them, and we've found the connector between the panel and the driver is really handy as it means you can independently disable individual panels without affecting the rest of the grid.
i'd use a multicore YY for the gridswitch/EM stop by the door. feed the gridswitch itself through the em stop button so it breaks the feed to every contactor in one go. also means you only have to pull one cable up to the gridswitch.
Also maybe 4mm radials for each station?
Fancy seeing you here! I agree, good idea 👍
Laurence Hucker you know I was sitting thinking how I would connect the e stop to all the contactors for separate circuits, but that works perfect! Is it ok to use the same feed for a1 of each contactor? Thanks!
If you need a way to connect the return from the EM stop to the common of each gridswitch, you could do worse that look at the Phoenix Contacts Distribution Block (e.g. P/N 3002758).
YY Should not be used for fixed wiring/final circuits. I think that was a change in the 18th, same goes for SY. Give it a google, the problem seems to be B.S 7671 does not recognize them being manufactured to a Britsh Standard, think they made to a German spec.
@@nickbuckle646 cable not being to a BS can be covered by declaring a deviation from BS7671 on the installation certificate. That would apply to NYY (hi tough) too in addition to SY and YY, although I wouldn't be surprised if there's actually a BS that they happen to comply with... There's another reg on not using flexible cable for fixed wiring too, but it doesn't apply to control circuits, so contactors should be ok.
EDIT: might be worth reading articles such as this, as there is certainly more to the argument www.whyprysmian.co.uk/sy-yy-cy-cable.html
Great presentation, easygoing, no stress 👍👍
AT&T(GB) in Brentford stock that Rehau trunking mate, and they're still open to the public, just closed on Saturdays now. Recently fitted a load of it.
If you're floating around near Old Street tomorrow I'm pretty sure I've got a spare one on site you can have.
I know we can all see you grafting away on the jobs you choose to portray on you tube, but I must say how impressed I am at the condition in which your tools, (and your whole van for that matter) are kept - being in such mint condition. Has lockdown availed you more time with which to keep them mint and much more organised than your average joe spark? Good show!
Nope, that's how I roll!
The NVC LED Pannels are really good and easy to work with
Them LED grid fittings can be fit with a battery backup, turning them into emergency lights. These are far brighter than the bulkhead lights and neatens up the ceiling more. Very easy to do as well
Great video Tom. Something to watch during this lockdown!!! Looks like one of them jobs that leads to more work the access control stuff looks interesting.
Retrofitted those exact panels in a church hall a little while back. Love em.
Rehau is a 5 min walk from my house. Just might add, their trunking is quality
Suggest you don't show your keys when locking your van. Shifty geezer can make a duplicate just by seeing the dimples etc on the key when you show and turn it. If you doubt me, watch the *LockPickingLawyer* 's channel. If you don't know his channel or another lock picking one, he will scare the crap out of you on how quick locks can be picked or opened by other means.
With regards to cable on ceiling grid, you can buy ceiling grid clips that sit on the grid and have a plastic top that can hold upto 8 cables (maybe more if needed) we used then on a university in Liverpool
I recently installed some very similar 2'x4' LED fixtures in an elementary school here in the US. Interesting to see that y'all aren't required to safety wire the fixtures to the ceiling with steel wire, and can just lay them in the grid. In my state it's required that each fixture have a minimum of two safety wires to hold the fixtures in case the ceiling grid collapses. I think it's kind of silly with the light weight LED fixtures, but it makes plenty of sense for the older florescence fixtures. Those things are heavy!
Thomas Nagy's Price It Right 👍🏻
Glad you have got the job you have bloody worked hard for it.
I miss the flicker😂😂
Hahahaahaha
I'm single now but when i wasn't i use to flickher alot
Quick comment on cable selection: if allowed by local code some kind of multicore wire (e.g. Oelflex 12g0.75mm², higher count if you need returns for "on" indication) might be making sense for the contactor switches (shared supply) and also the emergency switch (dedicated pair). If you are concerned about the insulation put into a flex tube. Saves time and space. Makes everythin very neat because you run one cable from the control box to your contactor box.
Hi tom I've used that rehau stuff before I got mine through electric centre which Is basically a part of edmundsons
You could run a 3 phase supply up to the room and install a little Control panel housing all the contactors, RCBOs, emergency switches etc.A little more design and MCP cost but wiring would be a doddle.
I would do Radials to each appliance and a ring for the sockets as normal.
It would be easy to get a cost for a little panel purpose built for the job.
00:00 ooh somebody's been watchin Edgar Wright movies for editing tips 🙂🙂
For the cables I think I would have left them over the grid. The ceiling should be fire rated? plus there's the metal grid to prevent premature collapse? And I think it would be safer.
If there was a risk of premature collapse, it would look like sorting that out would be a seperate job.
But I'm sitting at a keyboard and not at the job so don't have a clue.
Hi Tom, I would put a seperate Distribution Board in a corner in the kitchen which would feed the entire kitchen, including sockets etc.. Every hob would be on their own circuit and the contactors with the emergency push button on theirs. Price wise it could be around £4k. Looking forward to see the end result.
They are removing the sockets to prevent kids from charging their phones/devices.
Cheers.
In Australia it is againts the regs (Illegal) to tie cables or anything to floating ceiling hangers, you have to mount Cat Wires across the roof void and tie everything to those
Exactly my thoughts aj but its funny watching how the poms work it blows my mind australia seems to have a better standard in my opinion than alot of other countries LOL all
Rehau Profila Compact, we use it all the time and get it no problem from Edmundsons Carlisle. Your branch should be able to source it from another branch in the Edmundsons group. Nice vid, interesting as usual👍
Nice to see someone else from Carlisle following Tom!
The paxton door system they have with the emergency exits we use at our school. Its setup so the emergency buttons if pressed trigger a relay on the Paxton system so it emails us. A lot of places don't even alarm them so you can simply press it and walk out! We're yet to find another school with a similar setup.
I really like the paxton door system
Just noticed the label on the DB of who the electrical contractor was & the state of the wiring is actually neat for them.
TOM
Have a look at the 3w emergency spotlights, I always fit them in grids now, 100000 X neater than bulkheads.
With that haircut mate you’ll fit right into the dodgy neighbourhood.
He probably locked his van because his hair cut stole a bike and is hiding in it in the back...
I hope you marked the ends of the data cables with their original socket IDs. As someone who works in IT, this is one of the most frustrating things when data cabling is cut or disconnected but not marked as to where it previously went.
I would install a DB in the room fed via a contactor installed within the incomer section fed 16mm 5 core SWA (depending on loading) abd controlled with a lockable E stop at the teachers desk. This should prevent having all 8 circuits being fed through the same contactor enclosure preventing the danger when working on 1 contactor.
Id put a 2A MCB on the auxiliary circuit to protect it.
Like someone mentioned before id go for a 4mm T+E LSF radial to each station and keep 1 row on the same phase to prevent 400V between the 2 work stations.. although this will leave 1 phase with a higher load should they have a full class.
I couldnt properly see but the 250A main switch is usually a switch disconector BSEN60947-3 so the 250A rating is the maximum current it can break when switching? Unless its a BSEN60947-2 which is an MCCB so it should have a dial underneath the switch at 0.8 - 1 x?
Usually the incomer fuses are at 200A for a 250A switch disconnector so will probably need to check first. Ideally probably could have done with a load test when the school is open to check what its current load demand is before installing.
Hope it helps and good luck
Those CP3 Emergency terminals are quite nice you can set them up with both internal summer and 10 second delay timer if you have fire alarm signal on the Access control system. Also they are resettable which is awesome.
Edit: It also turns red when triggered
T8s are what were in the ceiling lights and the fluorescent emergency lights use T5 tubes
Good luck with the fire panel
Closed protocol adt panel 😂
Plus most schools are usually picky about who services the fire alarms usually done in house or a reputable fire alarm company, not a one man band.
What about extraction? Could get steamy and smokey in that room?
Was thinking the same. Potentially lots of hot vapor and/or smoke from all those cookers.
I hope those lovely slimline led fittings have a decent ip rating 😳😅😂
Probably someone elses job, it usually is
Did a load of this kinda work at the NIC EIC main office and that’s all they wanted us to do, lash it across the ceiling...
Them led panels actually get quite warm once they have been on a while, I try to place the driver and connection box on an adjoining tile if possible
I'm thinking 5 days £5800 including the day you spent modifying the trunkings and the led lights and allowing a day for board work and testing
My only thought is key switches to isolate with separate neons so you can tell when each circuit is energised
Hi tom we need a video on that Bosch power station!! Where did you get it? How much did it cost? Is it heavy??
42kg; sells for £1800+vat shop.bosch-professional.com/gb/en/product/cordless-power-unit-gen-230v-1500--39399--0600915070#
Nice 👍 it’s a good idea to get a secondary fixing on stuff sitting in the grid in schools something like gripples usually they panels come with little right angle brackets got called to a school years ago where the kid had been whacked on the leg with a speaker tile after they’d been messing about with a ball made a right mess of the lads leg spent about 3 days adding gripples to everything in the school.
And Rehau is a rexel brand might be worth a quick call to see if they can source you an end cap
32A RCBO for each bay.
6mm radial to each bay via a contactor.
6mm into a JB
Run 4mm T&E from JB to oven.
Separate 4mm for hob
3rd 4mm to sockets.
Control wire from grid switch to contactor to isolate the whole bay.
Pricing a commercial job as someone who isn't quite used to thinking in those terms is quite difficult, and the actual price is probably several times higher than I initially expected, but still a very fair price (just outside of what I'm used to). As my initial hunch was around 2 grand, a better price would probably be somewhere in the ₤10,000 to ₤20,000 range.
Alright mate just asking have you heard of the emergency panel pods? Basically it’s a small pod that fits on top the panel which means you don’t need the bulkheads mounted on the surface of the ceiling tiles. Gives off a good amount of light in emergency mode and a very nice neat finish! Great vid mate keep it up. 👍🏼
Gotta love Docklands, it's my favourite part of the city tbh.
I like it too. Its a little 'rough and tumble' but it has a really down to earth feel. Not all parts but for the majority; i like east London
As for the cabling on the ceiling grid, I'd mention it to the client.
That van is a beast tom. The back of mine looks like I had an epileptic fit in the back of the wholesalers and knocked over every shelving unit.
Couldn't of thought of any other example of how much of a shit hole your van is? Would you rip the piss into a downsyndrome or a diabetic etc? Arsehole let's hope you never get diagnosed with epilepsy and you have to stop working because they take your driving licence
Love the fresh trim lad
Is their spare capacity for the additional load, looked like it was only 100amp incomer, didn't see any ct's. Is their existing school kitchen all electric, if it is, you may need an upgrade on the incoming supply.
Too much load ???
Anthony charles a lot of schools especially older schools have what looks like 100a supply but have the fuses graded and a CT meter fitted so used load can be monitored by the DNO. Strange the school doesn’t already have a home economics class.
Main switch was 250A with what looked like a direct reading meter. Adjacent sub boards with 100 and 125A with lots of spare ways unless i'm missing something?
@@ryantaylor6335 Didn't Mr Nagy mention that as well? Or did we both hear and see something that wasn't real? Lol
In self isolation from mrs and she shouted through plasterboard wall nagy has got a new one so straight on the you tube thanks for entertaining tom
There's a good scrap value on those Ali reflectors. And also those tiles look like plaster board tiles which need to go in a specific skip
I got a batch of 58 of those, I have the best-iluminated loft and some mates have wonderful garage n shed lighting now waste not want not
haircut, and nice el-work as always mate!
Thanks Tom
Good video here, Tom and am looking forward to part two. (Don't think I heard you cuss once!)
Dunno about in Euro, but here in the states. Each light is supposed to have 2 points of support. (we use ceiling wire, labeled separately for the electricians) And we support the wires off that, as we arnt allowed to use other trades support. If you wanted you should have charged them to do that. Cause right now that craps not gonna fly, Literally. :p
Best electiran ever
Bet those Eaton RCBO’s won’t be cheap? LSF cable as it’s a school, have to watch the phasing and loads on the ovens too. - run a multicore to the switch put the common through the em stop first sounds like a nice job
£1k materials £2.5k labour plus VAT but probably double that for London and lockdown work
Would it been easier to put emergency fittings in rather than swap bulkheads
Those break glasses are very cool... Also - if you do get a the fire alarm, i think their voids need protection 🤔
At the start of the video you see an i/o unit on wall connected to a fireray 5000 controller I think so probably higher out of shot there was a beam detector.
There's beam detection in the void he's working in.
Rehau was the best dado to fit ever so handy and cheap enough but they have stopped manufacturing, we had to switch to MK dado
Why didn't you put a single socket in trunking the it could be right way up
Why would you bother with "the right way up"?
Hi mate just a heads up on the fire alarm panel for future, it’s an addressable adt panel so hard to get the sortware for laptop programming unless you know someone who works/used to work for adt. If you come across faults with devices etc you would need to get adt to programme the heads with address etc which they charge a pretty penny to do. Hope this is of help mate.
Use 24vdc contactors, only one control cable for grid switches eg. ölflex 12x0.75
Hi Tom. Just to make you aware that Fire alarm system is closed protocol by ADT. Unless you know someone you may struggle to swap parts on the system. Great video tho!
Installed loads of commercial lighting all over uk we usually try to put the click connectors within 2meters of the lights but it can look messy.
Regarding the contactors, not sure what the security is on the classrooms but do you plan on putting in a master key isolator for the workstations? I.e "one key to rule them all" to prohibit some miscreant turning things on whilst staff are unaware?
Duncan Sanders interesting - Paxton (the people that already do their door locks by the looks of it) have a card reader for uses like that.
Could just use a key to unlock emergency switch and smash the button when the teacher leaves the room....
I sugest push buttons with indicator light for contactors. Also enclosure with some sound isolation would be a good thing. Clients like silence operation of stuff you install, just an idea...
I would say put the switches for the contactors in a locked box so that only faculty staff have access. And for the red button, maybe find one that buzzes loudly if the cover is open? Or something similar, maybe even one you have to smash the cover? Putting a button like that in a well traveled area (especially by the main point of egress) is asking for problems.
Why didn’t you fit emergency battery packs to the led panels instead of those emergency bulkheads? When I fitted panels at a taxi firm they were blown away with the performance and how flush they were with the ceiling.
And yes there were green little charge leds 😊
Brilliant video as always 😊
Bertiebassett1972 I was thinking that no need for the ugly ones anymore
Yeah, exactly!
LED's do generate alot of heat. Hence why they have a Aluminium backplate. Personally i would try to keep the transformer block away from the rear of each panel. Given they will reach 60-70c.
Alternative to thw bulkheads in a room like that we would just fit some emergency led panels.. Just the same as you fitted but you buy an additional emergency pack.
I don't know..but i would try to use that normal outside light ..as extra in that room where you placed all those led lights.. Because you can see that there is outside light coming to that roof..and it would be bad if you didn't use it.,..but ofc it is not up to you but up to customer..
AC in every tool? Damn wish my school would have had that!
Rehau is a plastics manufacturer here in Scotland. Tbh I thought they only made uPVC window profiles but that's where that trunking comes from it seems
Fitted some of that trunking in work not long ago. Pretty sure it came from RS Components.
If possible could you do a how to series? I'm a bms electrical apprentice. So as you can guess I dont do anything involving lightning systems, Or fire alarm. Or perhaps explain the basics as you would if you were teaching someone. Awesome video by the way.
I think what should have been suggested to the client was extra kick boxs been put in place above the ceiling most of the flex lengths above the ceiling is crazy, the max flex distance should not exceed 3meters hence reducing the probability of premature collapse and support required. In regard cable tie to ceiling supports is a bad idea and would cause the ceiling grid to belly and warp its shape over time!
Keep clear of the fire alarm,old adt Minerva closed protocol.Also the devices eg smokes heats call points are hard to acquire.
You can link the L1 and L in the bulkhead to make it maintained btw
Would go for roughly about 6k, maybe suggest some extraction on top of that as well.
Under DT class room regs require minimum of one E-Stop per wall easily accessible
Why not put 2 single sockets in instead of 1 vertical double socket. Makes a neater job.
Good job sir ♥️
Love the videos, keep up the great work
From working in a school. Maks sure you put the main emergency button inside a cover. The amount of times the students "lean" on it and cut the power is frustrating. We use them with keys to re-enable them...which means a visit from us...
Ask the school whether they want the staff computer and the projector to be included in it as well. It can cause real damage to the projector if the power is pulled while the bulb is on and the flap on that Hitachi a220 projector is open. When they power off they run the fan for a little while after to cool the bulb to prevent damage. This obviously doesnt happen.
Ask the school where they want the desk. If it is away from the wall as you describe. Run a large pipe under the floor from the wall to the access panel in the floor so the cables are able to be run to it. Put in pull cables so they can run extra lines as needed. Install a modular "wall plate" so they can choose what inputs they need to use...eg VGA hdmi and sound etc.
Hope all of this helps.
Hope you get the work, looks like an interesting install.
You may have already designed the control panel. I was wondering are you going to use relays and spring return grid switches so when the emergency button is released, that all 8 contactors don't slam close at the same time. I would space out the contactors in a control panel with ventilation.
That trunking is made by "OBO", so maybe try looking in that direction?
Grate video Tom
I would add one red push button per side - so the students can cut the power to the systems as well when something goes majorly wrong. I would use one red button for the teach(with a key) and one cable per "trunk" and also two power feed down to the fuse box, each 32A. It should be plenty.
Don't overengineer that stuff.
The printing on the trunking is partially written in german. It says "Unterteil" which translates to "bottom part". I think that if you search for it at german distributors you may be able to find it. I am not at all an expert, so I can't guarantee that it is actually available there. Hope it helps, Greetings from germany