Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers

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  • čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
  • Is they bike industry a big SCAM? Hookless Rims are the most dangerous technology we face and what (if any) bikes are good value in 2023.
    Nero Show Featuring ‪@PeakTorque‬
    Huge thanks to Alex from Peak Torque for spending some time with us answering all the questions we have been discussing on the show over the last few months. Alex has an experienced and unique view of the bike industry, something we leant on in this discussion.
    Check out Alex's Channel: / @peaktorque
    Chapters
    00:00 intro
    00:30 Industry marketing claims
    14:21 Have We Reached Peak Aero?
    18:23 What's Going On In China?
    23:07 Industry Quality Control
    31:07 Hookless Disaster
    44:03 Are New Bikes a Rip OFF?
    52:00 Carbon Spokes
    1:00:00 What Tyre Width Is Fastest?
    1:14:06 A CZcams Engineer
    1:23:14 Hambini vs Peak Torque
    1:26:41 Pro Cycling Watt Bombs
    SUBSCRIBE On CZcams: bit.ly/2gMWc1t
    The Nero Show is available on your favourite Podcast platform
    Spotify:
    open.spotify.com/show/0UEODvA...
    Amazon:
    music.amazon.com/podcasts/285...
    Apple Podcasts:
    podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...|-unfiltered-cycling-podcast/id1659229051
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
    INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
    TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
    STRAVA: / strava
    Check Out Jesse's Coaching: www.nero.club/coaching
  • Sport

Komentáře • 488

  • @PeakTorque
    @PeakTorque Před 10 měsíci +386

    Credit to these guys! Turned this around very fast. Can confirm that Chris can get it up very quickly 🎉 even as a cyclist
    Few comments to add: The easy answer to the 305W NP questions is - it doesn't get easier you and everyone else just get faster. The avg. speed of the bunch I bet has gone up I bet over the years.
    Secondly, Mr Bigham has been on the phone to say every GC leader should ride an aero bike. While the CFD says deep in the bunch there is up to a 95% drag reduction, the ride files don't show that, which he has access to :)
    Some more comments about tubeless - the tubeless center channel depth is really important when it comes to safety, yes you can make it deeper for easy installation (and the bead seat diameter can be the same at the wall) but if the bead slips down into the deeper channel under total pressure loss it is equally easy for the tyre to come off!

  • @jonathangriego7334
    @jonathangriego7334 Před 10 měsíci +122

    How is this podcast just getting better and better?! This is probably my favorite episode so far. Please have PT back on again. Great job boys!

  • @dominicmunson4480
    @dominicmunson4480 Před 10 měsíci +52

    He said it! “You can’t cheat the physics” should be PTs tag line 😅. Great episode

  • @henriqueratz
    @henriqueratz Před 10 měsíci +67

    Wow, this was my absolutely favorite episode! Great job to all 3 of you. As an engineer, I am in absolute awe of how well Alex can explain such complex topics and make it seem so interesting. He is a fantastic teacher. Keep up the good work with the podcast guys! you're absolutely right, the goal is to generate the conversation, and not cover 100% of the details.

  • @littlemrdrummer
    @littlemrdrummer Před 10 měsíci +40

    PeakTorque has my full respect. Sending it with humility, honesty and facts. Very very rare in this world of CZcams.

  • @future62
    @future62 Před 10 měsíci +15

    I started this thinking "no way am I gonna get through an hour and a half".... got to the end like "wait yall are done already?" Great stuff, pod keeps getting better and better.

  • @IanGilchrist-bi7dk
    @IanGilchrist-bi7dk Před 10 měsíci +29

    This was the best episode yet-hands down.

  • @marcvb3364
    @marcvb3364 Před 10 měsíci +38

    Probably one of the best episodes you've done. Thanks for all these amazing insights!

  • @Hambini
    @Hambini Před 10 měsíci +50

    Me: 2 CZcams influencers find peak torque more attractive than me.
    Hairdresser: They must be men!!!

  • @condorito93swe
    @condorito93swe Před 10 měsíci +55

    The episode we’ve all been waiting for! You guys are absolutely killing it, best pod on cycling YT.

  • @SherazChoudhary
    @SherazChoudhary Před 10 měsíci +26

    Loved the longer format and being able to hear Alex's viewpoints on multiple topics. Alex's depth of knowledge came across even better than it does in his own channel.

  • @oldguyandabike
    @oldguyandabike Před 10 měsíci +24

    Excellent. You guys keep raising the bar on vid podcasts that are worth watching.

    • @ChrisMillerCycling
      @ChrisMillerCycling  Před 10 měsíci +1

      Glad you enjoy it!

    • @oldguyandabike
      @oldguyandabike Před 10 měsíci +2

      @@ChrisMillerCycling Very impressed with the 'common man' application from PT. He is only the second guy I have heard mention the 'stacked springs' idea on a bike and that things are too stiff most of the time. I have a saying that I think applies to most situations and most people riding a bike: "Smoother is faster". I do a lot of gravel riding, often on review bikes, carbon wheels, etc, and that really is a case where compliance is nearly always faster overall. And I am just now planning a new road bike build and contemplating 32s and a shallow carbon wheel for road. For where I live and how I ride, I think it is a smart choice, but I keep getting distracted by the 'shiny rocks' that modern bike marketing tosses out. We shall see. Thanks for the food for thought.

  • @BreakawayB
    @BreakawayB Před 10 měsíci +8

    🔥These CZcamsr collaborations are always the best episodes.

  • @abhimawa1
    @abhimawa1 Před 10 měsíci +7

    Interesting discussion. As an F1 analyst, Ive bern struggling to understand this ‘aero’ issue, all of sudden bike manufacturers, and especially many cycling enthusiasts I met on the road becoming aero experts. In F1, even big names like Scuderia Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren DO make mistakes in understanding aero. Those teams have enormous budget & state-of-the-art wind tunnels & R&D by reputable engineering teams. Not to mention carbon layup, where to make it stiff & where to ‘cheat’ (heard of flexi wing?). This is a very good video with substantial discussion 👍
    The real reason enthusiasts want aero bikes is because aero bikes are neat looking.

    • @NikeonaBike
      @NikeonaBike Před 10 měsíci +3

      Correct, fact of the matter is, wearing a pair of $25 aero socks reduces drag by more than the SL8 Roval stem and bar combo, but people want the bike anyway because its prestigious.

  • @pantster9855
    @pantster9855 Před 10 měsíci +4

    Thank God someone has finally pointed out that aero savings in the bunch is basically zero. Imagine all those pros choosing the aero bike and sitting in the bunch all day. Thanks TP

  • @rskng
    @rskng Před 10 měsíci +2

    This show seriously needs a disclaimer of “we’re just guessing but try to keep it entertaining”.

  • @nockee
    @nockee Před 10 měsíci +12

    Great work pulling in Peak Torque. Such good information.

  • @mitchlabrador
    @mitchlabrador Před 10 měsíci +3

    This was one of you best! Such an interesting conversation. Thanks guys.

  • @danielfrancis6900
    @danielfrancis6900 Před 10 měsíci

    Great content! Best video yet. Excellent questions and discussion. It’d be great to see Peak in the regular rotation of guests.

  • @jasonmurphy5780
    @jasonmurphy5780 Před 10 měsíci +10

    Great episode gentlemen; easily in the top 5 of all-time for the Nero Show. Recommend at least quarterly collaborations with PT. I’m personally a big fan of PT as well. I think your approaches to subjects relating with our sport are complimentary. Presents a very researched approach & useful contrast to questionable industry directions. Again, very solid episode! Cheers!

  • @SinPhi666
    @SinPhi666 Před 10 měsíci +6

    I think a good example of a large rider who focused on system aero was Adam Hansen. He would ride the Helium over the Noah with negative stem, wild drop to the 38cm bars all to get low and narrow. Did have the 35mm bars for stiffness/weight (sponsor), imagine that would be integrated now if it could be had with the negative stem.

  • @mikelogan2684
    @mikelogan2684 Před 10 měsíci +2

    BEST SHOW so far Thanks PT,JC and CM

  • @ccuebas19
    @ccuebas19 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Loved this one! Thanks guys!

  • @HoldenDoesBikeStuff
    @HoldenDoesBikeStuff Před 10 měsíci +14

    Great episode boys! Well done. Learned a lot about my own BS a few times in this. I gotta stop being a cycling diva lol

  • @CrabgrassFarmer
    @CrabgrassFarmer Před 10 měsíci

    So good to have PeakTorque on the show. Great job! This was the bomb!

  • @db613
    @db613 Před 10 měsíci +3

    We all love Alex! 👍🤙

  • @cyc00000
    @cyc00000 Před 10 měsíci

    One of the best editions so far fellas. Thanks!

  • @kurtleitch5240
    @kurtleitch5240 Před 10 měsíci

    Great guests coming on guys. Nice work, keep it coming!

  • @johnnydarko8031
    @johnnydarko8031 Před 10 měsíci +1

    you guys continually get the best guests CZcams has to offer. Officially THE BEST cycling podcast EVER. Kudos.

  • @Ghostina1
    @Ghostina1 Před 10 měsíci +2

    On of the best shows i have seen in this channel! Peak Torque is elevating yours in Galaxies

  • @fritz324
    @fritz324 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Awesome episode! Keep up the great work, it's always the one video of the week I'm looking forward to

  • @andrewdoig4034
    @andrewdoig4034 Před 10 měsíci

    Best and most compelling one yet. Thanks for putting this together.

  • @tomasberka2124
    @tomasberka2124 Před 10 měsíci

    Simply and incredibly - this was awesome, guys. Could listen to you all for 8 hours...easily. So much learned, explained, discussed. Please make a follow-up or next episode with Alex in the future, if you can. Will be waiting for it.

  • @JbRRR
    @JbRRR Před 10 měsíci

    Thanks for this content, really great stuff !

  • @KikouLOL6702
    @KikouLOL6702 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Thank you for this episode. I really enjoy the coversationnal yet educationnal style.

  • @96golfcl
    @96golfcl Před 10 měsíci +1

    Could listen to Alex talk bikes & relevant engineering practices all day. Stellar guest

  • @whackachangchangable
    @whackachangchangable Před 10 měsíci +6

    I'd love for you to dive into your hefron park data set and see if the speed has changed over the years. If everyone else has swapped from round tube bikes to aero rigs over the last 10 years then maybe everyone is still pushing the same power as always, but the pack is going a little bit faster? Rather than expecting Chris's watts to drop as if he's in isolation and the only one on a faster bike. Potentially the same reason why pro races have gotten a bit quicker over the last 5ish years.

    • @neilashton9459
      @neilashton9459 Před 10 měsíci +2

      I had the same thought listening to this. And to measure if a bike is “faster” the power input would have to be a controlled constant.

    • @neilashton9459
      @neilashton9459 Před 10 měsíci

      Love the show but wish Jessi would fix his camera. The image is always reversed in the split screen shots ( but correct inthe solo shots).

  • @Fresh79999
    @Fresh79999 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Alex is just someone I could listen to for days. Clever guy.

  • @seligseligabc123
    @seligseligabc123 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Bloody heck I don’t remember a more engrossing informative discussion as this one in a
    long time. Spot on..🎉.

  • @romankarabutin3781
    @romankarabutin3781 Před 10 měsíci

    Awesome job guys🔥 it was a joy to watch! Keep on the good work👍🏼

  • @ricardostao
    @ricardostao Před 10 měsíci

    Solid episode, awesome. thanks guys!

  • @p504504
    @p504504 Před 10 měsíci +2

    Listened to the podcast but came here to comment: this is one of the best if not the very best episode of any cycling related podcasts I have ever heard... Up there with the early Silca (Josh) marginal gains episodes. So much free game from a guy with a lot of knowledge. ❤ I love you Nero Show keep up the good work!!!

  • @willemvandenbosch3992
    @willemvandenbosch3992 Před 10 měsíci +2

    Hats off gents…amazing content

  • @psnSupergrobi10
    @psnSupergrobi10 Před 10 měsíci +3

    Great episode!
    This has become probably my fav cycling podcast in the last few weeks

  • @johnsfulton
    @johnsfulton Před 10 měsíci

    Great show, fantastic debate on the bike industry and the mechanics of the bike.

  • @HoldenDoesBikeStuff
    @HoldenDoesBikeStuff Před 10 měsíci +4

    Lol y’all are 100% talking about me with the whole “But tbis is made specifically for this frame!” *Looks over at my Reserve Wheel and Soloist*

  • @ozgurinsan
    @ozgurinsan Před 10 měsíci

    Very good show. Love it.

  • @philipk4475
    @philipk4475 Před 10 měsíci +4

    Edit: great video! loved it, what a star line-up of guests you've got on here
    Additional comment: The Hefron Park analysis has a faulty premise. CMiller is able to do 305 W normalized for the race, and with a faster bike he's just going to be going faster for that same power. His placings might not have improved much (if at all), because his competition will have also been slowly upgrading to more aero bikes (presumably).
    What I'd like to see whether the average speed of these races has tended to increase over the years, because with constant normalized power that would be indicative of aerodynamics having improved overall.

  • @deltagchemistry12
    @deltagchemistry12 Před 10 měsíci +3

    This pod cast slaps love the Nero show

  • @elchram
    @elchram Před 10 měsíci

    Favorite episode ever! Well done guys and Alex is such a great guy I could listen to him for 3h

  • @martinkroutil
    @martinkroutil Před 10 měsíci +1

    Excellent stuff and amazing info. I could listen to you three guys all day just geek out about bikes.

  • @stefanozurich
    @stefanozurich Před 10 měsíci +2

    Great show. Specs thanks to @PeakTorque

  • @lukasschlieker383
    @lukasschlieker383 Před 10 měsíci +3

    Forgot to commend last week but just wanted to say the bikeotic channel is awesome and I’m glad he got a shoutout!

  • @lisashiela9137
    @lisashiela9137 Před 10 měsíci +2

    Awesome video fellas. Loved the topics...

  • @CycoWarriorx
    @CycoWarriorx Před 10 měsíci +4

    I enjoyed this discussion… probably one of the best you’ve done… I hope you have Alex on again…. 🍻

  • @bykr2009
    @bykr2009 Před 10 měsíci

    Wow, one of your best shows ever. Very informative and you guys asked some great questions.

  • @chrismadge7292
    @chrismadge7292 Před 10 měsíci

    Another really interesting video - thank you. I leant a lot listening to that.

  • @FaiscaaaH
    @FaiscaaaH Před 10 měsíci +4

    I hope you guys paid attention, "smaller, slimmer the front tire the faster you go" the rest is pure marketing :P I am still using my 23mm oldddddd continental GP4000 until they rot, after that i will test the GP5000 TR like Alex told us to do :)

  • @neilmckenna236
    @neilmckenna236 Před 10 měsíci

    Brilliant guys, and great to hear Alex views 👏 👍

  • @mrwezbo
    @mrwezbo Před 10 měsíci +1

    Supurb job Chris with the show in general, but also the top-tier lineup of guests you've managed to get on recently. Shows the respect the youtube cycling crowd is showing the Nero show.

    • @ChrisMillerCycling
      @ChrisMillerCycling  Před 10 měsíci

      We have been very lucky have these guys reaching out and keen to be apart of the show. Alex is a pure gent

  • @mikeloncoski5574
    @mikeloncoski5574 Před 10 měsíci

    Great again. You guys are nailing it.

  • @philipk4475
    @philipk4475 Před 10 měsíci +3

    @PeakTorque I believe you misunderstood the analysis WRT the venge vias. It was 2 mins faster compared to what it replaced (Specialized Tarmac SL5 I believe). Then the venge was a smidge faster and the SL8 is claimed to be a smidge faster still. That's all with respect to the SL5 Tarmac, not the venge vias.

  • @jhl5303
    @jhl5303 Před 10 měsíci

    Very interesting, especially since you got in really deep in some subjects. What i like the most about you is that you don't repeat the mainstream marketing crap many goes on and contributing to creating a mutual agreed truth about stuff without questioning.

  • @HarishChouhan
    @HarishChouhan Před 5 měsíci

    I’m glad you are bring smart people to chat with.

  • @global_nomad.
    @global_nomad. Před 10 měsíci

    started watching but didnt think i'd stick for 90mins...and here I am at the end...great conversation, thanks to all....PS my University lectures are rambling observations too...but with solid knowledge and experience 😉

  • @davidsips9532
    @davidsips9532 Před 10 měsíci

    this is such good stuff keep it up guys

  • @user-wd8qm5hl8l
    @user-wd8qm5hl8l Před 10 měsíci +3

    I quite like PT in this format. Definitely one of the best episodes so far.
    Would love to hear Bikotic on the show and listen to Chris and Jesse pick his brain on frame geometry and western brands that are sharing moulds.

  • @javiermartindiez9857
    @javiermartindiez9857 Před 10 měsíci

    Great great great podcast, we need Alex back again. Thanks Chris and Jesse!!!!!

  • @nigelsmith4403
    @nigelsmith4403 Před 10 měsíci

    Great episode there guys, so may interesting topics - bit like a myth busters show, with a true subject matter expert! You have set the bar extremely high for yourselves now.....

  • @glennicol1361
    @glennicol1361 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Excellent guest!

  • @geoffreyrader7203
    @geoffreyrader7203 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Best episode yet, guys

  • @marekkrol5652
    @marekkrol5652 Před 3 měsíci

    Awesome in depth discussion

  • @gwinter00
    @gwinter00 Před 7 měsíci +3

    Hookless: thank you for confirming my suspicions. Still the best cycling talk podcast. 👏

  • @TheMASDrummer
    @TheMASDrummer Před 10 měsíci +2

    The collab we needed

  • @AleBrex
    @AleBrex Před 10 měsíci

    Was waiting a long time for this one! Super interesting conversation. Hope PT can hop in again soon!

  • @RK01
    @RK01 Před 10 měsíci

    Great episode 👍

  • @andybals216
    @andybals216 Před 10 měsíci

    Wow ..that was the best I've ever watched on any CZcams video..well done

  • @JordanHammond7
    @JordanHammond7 Před 10 měsíci +1

    How cool is Alex. Never seen his stuff before.

  • @whynotride327
    @whynotride327 Před 10 měsíci

    One of the best and most informative videos I have watched in a long time.

  • @hockysa
    @hockysa Před 10 měsíci

    really love and respect what Alex is saying in regards to how we can't see aero and aero testing (caveat being Adrian Newey 🐐) as well as bringing in aero packages and how they interact with the whole system including the rider. The whole aero system was also something Newey mentioned in his book how to build a racecar. Very open, critical and inquisitive engineering view.

  • @glenhill7057
    @glenhill7057 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Absolutely brilliant boys.👊🙏

  • @SingaporeUntold
    @SingaporeUntold Před 10 měsíci +2

    This show rocks ❤

  • @SS-pl4mj
    @SS-pl4mj Před 10 měsíci

    Brilliant work guys. Fantastic content.

  • @miche_amico
    @miche_amico Před 10 měsíci

    Fascinating chat! In particular, the quality control, hookless and tire width portions. And hearing Ganna's power data doesn't mean anything to me but Chris' reaction tells me what I need to know.

  • @MichaelBoogerd
    @MichaelBoogerd Před 9 měsíci

    I found this channel couple of years ago through Jesse's training videos and enjoyed the content as Nero Racing Team trying to crack Europe - but the re-branding to a chatshow/topical podcast style channel has me staying on waiting for every video. Great show guys!

  • @mbozar7572
    @mbozar7572 Před 10 měsíci

    So much information, thanks!

  • @tonylo6013
    @tonylo6013 Před 10 měsíci +1

    New fan of Alex as soon as he mentioned Winspace Hypers. 🎉🎉

  • @highfived
    @highfived Před 10 měsíci +3

    My father has been working with carbon as a engineer for years all this bikes are extremely overpriced. Plus I know two bike owners who tell me what that bikes cost to Make and the crazy mark up sale prices in bike stores. I get this information as I work in finance for one of biggest banks in the world. The whole industry is a rip off. The only way the prices will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices

    • @larryt.atcycleitalia5786
      @larryt.atcycleitalia5786 Před 10 měsíci +1

      "...will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices"
      And that will only happen if somehow marketing bullspeak stops working. PT Barnum was right!
      Marketing trumps everything - how else can you explain the success of Specialized and SRAM?

  • @greg4318
    @greg4318 Před 10 měsíci +4

    Congrats - the channel has come of age, get Hambini on next 😬😬😬

  • @iancarson8614
    @iancarson8614 Před 10 měsíci +2

    Quality session guys

  • @user-rf1rs4dr5j
    @user-rf1rs4dr5j Před 10 měsíci

    great show guys

  • @discbrakefan
    @discbrakefan Před 10 měsíci +2

    Very interesting show this week guys. Alex clearly knows his stuff. Cycling is a really awesome sport because there’s so much to it, it has a discipline to suit everyone, there’s all sorts of tech, training and fashion and things to talk about and argue over. Cycling is life.

  • @volkervoit
    @volkervoit Před 10 měsíci +3

    Awesome video and discussions, one of my favorite ones in past months 👍opposing to Jesse's recommendation I actually did a 740km / 25h non-stop ride on my Hyper 65mm wheels and survived 🙂

    • @elchram
      @elchram Před 10 měsíci +1

      Yeah no problem with mine either but I ride on smooth Swiss Tarmac so 🤷🏻‍♂️

  • @ShawnIsBatman
    @ShawnIsBatman Před 10 měsíci

    Absolutely incredible video!! I feel vindicated having purchased my latest bike as a used bike!

  • @BurntToast1
    @BurntToast1 Před 10 měsíci +1

    Well done gents, fantastic chat. Appreciate the editing effort, Chris - I imagine it’s not easy to achieve with the timing lag when chatting between continents, but you were able to edit that brilliantly.
    Also, Alex does know his audience.. winspace hyper wheels rider here 😂

    • @ChrisMillerCycling
      @ChrisMillerCycling  Před 10 měsíci +1

      Hey BT, thanks for the kind words on the edit, I can confirm the lagging was ‘challenging’ 😉

  • @ExplorinDoranRBrown
    @ExplorinDoranRBrown Před 10 měsíci

    Glad you got PT on! Have him on again soon and longer!
    Im working through his back catalog and heard him make a reference along the lines of:
    This the type of thing that gets Jesse from the Nero Show all fired up.
    And I thought, ahh! He is aware of the boys at Nero.

  • @aidanmasterson50
    @aidanmasterson50 Před 10 měsíci

    Yet another great guest guys.

  • @jordyjohnbaptiste1067
    @jordyjohnbaptiste1067 Před 10 měsíci

    I really enjoyed learning aero topics that Alex mentioned.

  • @cruzanbum3108
    @cruzanbum3108 Před 7 měsíci +1

    I gave up on marketing hype years ago but hey- there’s one born every minute so it’s not gonna go away anytime soon.

  • @mbastos1000
    @mbastos1000 Před 10 měsíci +1

    The best ever episode! Keep bring this other islander to the show! Three islanders on a talk show as hosts and another one watching them (Hawaii)!