Peak Torque on Bike Marketing, Real World Aero Savings and Hookless Dangers
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- čas přidán 8. 07. 2024
- Is they bike industry a big SCAM? Hookless Rims are the most dangerous technology we face and what (if any) bikes are good value in 2023.
Nero Show Featuring @PeakTorque
Huge thanks to Alex from Peak Torque for spending some time with us answering all the questions we have been discussing on the show over the last few months. Alex has an experienced and unique view of the bike industry, something we leant on in this discussion.
Check out Alex's Channel: / @peaktorque
Chapters
00:00 intro
00:30 Industry marketing claims
14:21 Have We Reached Peak Aero?
18:23 What's Going On In China?
23:07 Industry Quality Control
31:07 Hookless Disaster
44:03 Are New Bikes a Rip OFF?
52:00 Carbon Spokes
1:00:00 What Tyre Width Is Fastest?
1:14:06 A CZcams Engineer
1:23:14 Hambini vs Peak Torque
1:26:41 Pro Cycling Watt Bombs
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INSTAGRAM: @chrismiller27 @nerocontinental
TWITTER: @chrismiller @nerocontinental
STRAVA: / strava
Check Out Jesse's Coaching: www.nero.club/coaching - Sport
Credit to these guys! Turned this around very fast. Can confirm that Chris can get it up very quickly 🎉 even as a cyclist
Few comments to add: The easy answer to the 305W NP questions is - it doesn't get easier you and everyone else just get faster. The avg. speed of the bunch I bet has gone up I bet over the years.
Secondly, Mr Bigham has been on the phone to say every GC leader should ride an aero bike. While the CFD says deep in the bunch there is up to a 95% drag reduction, the ride files don't show that, which he has access to :)
Some more comments about tubeless - the tubeless center channel depth is really important when it comes to safety, yes you can make it deeper for easy installation (and the bead seat diameter can be the same at the wall) but if the bead slips down into the deeper channel under total pressure loss it is equally easy for the tyre to come off!
😈
🍆
I've been hoping for this one for a while. Great to see you on; and I loved that you grabbed the calculator as soon as Jesse started asking watts numbers :D
I’m here to confirm Chris can’t get it up. Jesse tho? Rock hard.
Gay.
How is this podcast just getting better and better?! This is probably my favorite episode so far. Please have PT back on again. Great job boys!
He said it! “You can’t cheat the physics” should be PTs tag line 😅. Great episode
Wow, this was my absolutely favorite episode! Great job to all 3 of you. As an engineer, I am in absolute awe of how well Alex can explain such complex topics and make it seem so interesting. He is a fantastic teacher. Keep up the good work with the podcast guys! you're absolutely right, the goal is to generate the conversation, and not cover 100% of the details.
Our pleasure!
If he grew a mullet out he’d be an absolute god!
PeakTorque has my full respect. Sending it with humility, honesty and facts. Very very rare in this world of CZcams.
I started this thinking "no way am I gonna get through an hour and a half".... got to the end like "wait yall are done already?" Great stuff, pod keeps getting better and better.
This was the best episode yet-hands down.
and one with joe china cycling
Probably one of the best episodes you've done. Thanks for all these amazing insights!
Wow, thanks!
Me: 2 CZcams influencers find peak torque more attractive than me.
Hairdresser: They must be men!!!
The episode we’ve all been waiting for! You guys are absolutely killing it, best pod on cycling YT.
Finally
Truth!
Loved the longer format and being able to hear Alex's viewpoints on multiple topics. Alex's depth of knowledge came across even better than it does in his own channel.
Great to hear!
Excellent. You guys keep raising the bar on vid podcasts that are worth watching.
Glad you enjoy it!
@@ChrisMillerCycling Very impressed with the 'common man' application from PT. He is only the second guy I have heard mention the 'stacked springs' idea on a bike and that things are too stiff most of the time. I have a saying that I think applies to most situations and most people riding a bike: "Smoother is faster". I do a lot of gravel riding, often on review bikes, carbon wheels, etc, and that really is a case where compliance is nearly always faster overall. And I am just now planning a new road bike build and contemplating 32s and a shallow carbon wheel for road. For where I live and how I ride, I think it is a smart choice, but I keep getting distracted by the 'shiny rocks' that modern bike marketing tosses out. We shall see. Thanks for the food for thought.
🔥These CZcamsr collaborations are always the best episodes.
Interesting discussion. As an F1 analyst, Ive bern struggling to understand this ‘aero’ issue, all of sudden bike manufacturers, and especially many cycling enthusiasts I met on the road becoming aero experts. In F1, even big names like Scuderia Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren DO make mistakes in understanding aero. Those teams have enormous budget & state-of-the-art wind tunnels & R&D by reputable engineering teams. Not to mention carbon layup, where to make it stiff & where to ‘cheat’ (heard of flexi wing?). This is a very good video with substantial discussion 👍
The real reason enthusiasts want aero bikes is because aero bikes are neat looking.
Correct, fact of the matter is, wearing a pair of $25 aero socks reduces drag by more than the SL8 Roval stem and bar combo, but people want the bike anyway because its prestigious.
Thank God someone has finally pointed out that aero savings in the bunch is basically zero. Imagine all those pros choosing the aero bike and sitting in the bunch all day. Thanks TP
This show seriously needs a disclaimer of “we’re just guessing but try to keep it entertaining”.
Great work pulling in Peak Torque. Such good information.
Glad it was helpful!
This was one of you best! Such an interesting conversation. Thanks guys.
Great content! Best video yet. Excellent questions and discussion. It’d be great to see Peak in the regular rotation of guests.
Great episode gentlemen; easily in the top 5 of all-time for the Nero Show. Recommend at least quarterly collaborations with PT. I’m personally a big fan of PT as well. I think your approaches to subjects relating with our sport are complimentary. Presents a very researched approach & useful contrast to questionable industry directions. Again, very solid episode! Cheers!
Great suggestion!
I think a good example of a large rider who focused on system aero was Adam Hansen. He would ride the Helium over the Noah with negative stem, wild drop to the 38cm bars all to get low and narrow. Did have the 35mm bars for stiffness/weight (sponsor), imagine that would be integrated now if it could be had with the negative stem.
BEST SHOW so far Thanks PT,JC and CM
Loved this one! Thanks guys!
Great episode boys! Well done. Learned a lot about my own BS a few times in this. I gotta stop being a cycling diva lol
So good to have PeakTorque on the show. Great job! This was the bomb!
We all love Alex! 👍🤙
One of the best editions so far fellas. Thanks!
Great guests coming on guys. Nice work, keep it coming!
you guys continually get the best guests CZcams has to offer. Officially THE BEST cycling podcast EVER. Kudos.
On of the best shows i have seen in this channel! Peak Torque is elevating yours in Galaxies
Awesome episode! Keep up the great work, it's always the one video of the week I'm looking forward to
Glad you enjoy it!
Best and most compelling one yet. Thanks for putting this together.
Simply and incredibly - this was awesome, guys. Could listen to you all for 8 hours...easily. So much learned, explained, discussed. Please make a follow-up or next episode with Alex in the future, if you can. Will be waiting for it.
Thanks for this content, really great stuff !
Thank you for this episode. I really enjoy the coversationnal yet educationnal style.
Could listen to Alex talk bikes & relevant engineering practices all day. Stellar guest
I'd love for you to dive into your hefron park data set and see if the speed has changed over the years. If everyone else has swapped from round tube bikes to aero rigs over the last 10 years then maybe everyone is still pushing the same power as always, but the pack is going a little bit faster? Rather than expecting Chris's watts to drop as if he's in isolation and the only one on a faster bike. Potentially the same reason why pro races have gotten a bit quicker over the last 5ish years.
I had the same thought listening to this. And to measure if a bike is “faster” the power input would have to be a controlled constant.
Love the show but wish Jessi would fix his camera. The image is always reversed in the split screen shots ( but correct inthe solo shots).
Alex is just someone I could listen to for days. Clever guy.
Bloody heck I don’t remember a more engrossing informative discussion as this one in a
long time. Spot on..🎉.
Awesome job guys🔥 it was a joy to watch! Keep on the good work👍🏼
Solid episode, awesome. thanks guys!
Listened to the podcast but came here to comment: this is one of the best if not the very best episode of any cycling related podcasts I have ever heard... Up there with the early Silca (Josh) marginal gains episodes. So much free game from a guy with a lot of knowledge. ❤ I love you Nero Show keep up the good work!!!
Hats off gents…amazing content
Great episode!
This has become probably my fav cycling podcast in the last few weeks
Glad you enjoy it!
Great show, fantastic debate on the bike industry and the mechanics of the bike.
Lol y’all are 100% talking about me with the whole “But tbis is made specifically for this frame!” *Looks over at my Reserve Wheel and Soloist*
Very good show. Love it.
Edit: great video! loved it, what a star line-up of guests you've got on here
Additional comment: The Hefron Park analysis has a faulty premise. CMiller is able to do 305 W normalized for the race, and with a faster bike he's just going to be going faster for that same power. His placings might not have improved much (if at all), because his competition will have also been slowly upgrading to more aero bikes (presumably).
What I'd like to see whether the average speed of these races has tended to increase over the years, because with constant normalized power that would be indicative of aerodynamics having improved overall.
This pod cast slaps love the Nero show
Favorite episode ever! Well done guys and Alex is such a great guy I could listen to him for 3h
Excellent stuff and amazing info. I could listen to you three guys all day just geek out about bikes.
Glad you enjoy it!
Great show. Specs thanks to @PeakTorque
Forgot to commend last week but just wanted to say the bikeotic channel is awesome and I’m glad he got a shoutout!
Awesome video fellas. Loved the topics...
Glad you enjoyed it!
I enjoyed this discussion… probably one of the best you’ve done… I hope you have Alex on again…. 🍻
I hope so too!
Wow, one of your best shows ever. Very informative and you guys asked some great questions.
Another really interesting video - thank you. I leant a lot listening to that.
I hope you guys paid attention, "smaller, slimmer the front tire the faster you go" the rest is pure marketing :P I am still using my 23mm oldddddd continental GP4000 until they rot, after that i will test the GP5000 TR like Alex told us to do :)
Brilliant guys, and great to hear Alex views 👏 👍
Supurb job Chris with the show in general, but also the top-tier lineup of guests you've managed to get on recently. Shows the respect the youtube cycling crowd is showing the Nero show.
We have been very lucky have these guys reaching out and keen to be apart of the show. Alex is a pure gent
Great again. You guys are nailing it.
Thanks again!
@PeakTorque I believe you misunderstood the analysis WRT the venge vias. It was 2 mins faster compared to what it replaced (Specialized Tarmac SL5 I believe). Then the venge was a smidge faster and the SL8 is claimed to be a smidge faster still. That's all with respect to the SL5 Tarmac, not the venge vias.
Very interesting, especially since you got in really deep in some subjects. What i like the most about you is that you don't repeat the mainstream marketing crap many goes on and contributing to creating a mutual agreed truth about stuff without questioning.
I’m glad you are bring smart people to chat with.
started watching but didnt think i'd stick for 90mins...and here I am at the end...great conversation, thanks to all....PS my University lectures are rambling observations too...but with solid knowledge and experience 😉
this is such good stuff keep it up guys
I quite like PT in this format. Definitely one of the best episodes so far.
Would love to hear Bikotic on the show and listen to Chris and Jesse pick his brain on frame geometry and western brands that are sharing moulds.
Great great great podcast, we need Alex back again. Thanks Chris and Jesse!!!!!
Great episode there guys, so may interesting topics - bit like a myth busters show, with a true subject matter expert! You have set the bar extremely high for yourselves now.....
Excellent guest!
Best episode yet, guys
Awesome in depth discussion
Hookless: thank you for confirming my suspicions. Still the best cycling talk podcast. 👏
The collab we needed
Was waiting a long time for this one! Super interesting conversation. Hope PT can hop in again soon!
Great episode 👍
Wow ..that was the best I've ever watched on any CZcams video..well done
How cool is Alex. Never seen his stuff before.
One of the best and most informative videos I have watched in a long time.
Glad it was helpful!
really love and respect what Alex is saying in regards to how we can't see aero and aero testing (caveat being Adrian Newey 🐐) as well as bringing in aero packages and how they interact with the whole system including the rider. The whole aero system was also something Newey mentioned in his book how to build a racecar. Very open, critical and inquisitive engineering view.
Absolutely brilliant boys.👊🙏
This show rocks ❤
Brilliant work guys. Fantastic content.
Glad you think so!
Fascinating chat! In particular, the quality control, hookless and tire width portions. And hearing Ganna's power data doesn't mean anything to me but Chris' reaction tells me what I need to know.
Glad you enjoyed it!
I found this channel couple of years ago through Jesse's training videos and enjoyed the content as Nero Racing Team trying to crack Europe - but the re-branding to a chatshow/topical podcast style channel has me staying on waiting for every video. Great show guys!
Awesome, thank you!
So much information, thanks!
Glad it was helpful!
New fan of Alex as soon as he mentioned Winspace Hypers. 🎉🎉
My father has been working with carbon as a engineer for years all this bikes are extremely overpriced. Plus I know two bike owners who tell me what that bikes cost to Make and the crazy mark up sale prices in bike stores. I get this information as I work in finance for one of biggest banks in the world. The whole industry is a rip off. The only way the prices will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices
"...will come down is if consumers refuse to pay this ridiculous prices"
And that will only happen if somehow marketing bullspeak stops working. PT Barnum was right!
Marketing trumps everything - how else can you explain the success of Specialized and SRAM?
Congrats - the channel has come of age, get Hambini on next 😬😬😬
Quality session guys
great show guys
Very interesting show this week guys. Alex clearly knows his stuff. Cycling is a really awesome sport because there’s so much to it, it has a discipline to suit everyone, there’s all sorts of tech, training and fashion and things to talk about and argue over. Cycling is life.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Awesome video and discussions, one of my favorite ones in past months 👍opposing to Jesse's recommendation I actually did a 740km / 25h non-stop ride on my Hyper 65mm wheels and survived 🙂
Yeah no problem with mine either but I ride on smooth Swiss Tarmac so 🤷🏻♂️
Absolutely incredible video!! I feel vindicated having purchased my latest bike as a used bike!
Well done gents, fantastic chat. Appreciate the editing effort, Chris - I imagine it’s not easy to achieve with the timing lag when chatting between continents, but you were able to edit that brilliantly.
Also, Alex does know his audience.. winspace hyper wheels rider here 😂
Hey BT, thanks for the kind words on the edit, I can confirm the lagging was ‘challenging’ 😉
Glad you got PT on! Have him on again soon and longer!
Im working through his back catalog and heard him make a reference along the lines of:
This the type of thing that gets Jesse from the Nero Show all fired up.
And I thought, ahh! He is aware of the boys at Nero.
Yet another great guest guys.
I really enjoyed learning aero topics that Alex mentioned.
I gave up on marketing hype years ago but hey- there’s one born every minute so it’s not gonna go away anytime soon.
The best ever episode! Keep bring this other islander to the show! Three islanders on a talk show as hosts and another one watching them (Hawaii)!