Do heavy BBs increase AEG range? | Stock AEG Range | AATV EP021
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2018
- In which Gadge and Anvil find out what effect using a heavy BB has on the range of a UK Legal AEG. We tried 0.20g, 0.25g, 0.28g and 0.30g BBs.The results were very interesting!
What would you like us to find out next? Let us know in the comments.
We'll be going back in the next few weeks to test what effect using upgraded AEGs and DMRs has on range and accuracy.
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Hosts:
Tom 'Anvil' Hibberd
Gareth 'Gadge' Harvey
Gimbal Operator:
Erin Flood
Camera Operator:
Jo Flood
Production & Editing:
Tom 'Anvil' Hibberd
Gareth 'Gadge' Harvey
thegaolevents.co.uk
Awesome to see that the hard work put into our BB range translates into real results. Well demonstrated!
Great video guys, thanks for doing it. Nice to see people releasing quality videos with relevant info for new and experienced players alike.
Kerry House thanks for getting in touch. We just really enjoy making these!
I've been using 0.25s due to friends telling me that they increase effective range (not actual range, but better accuracy at the increased ranges). It's nice to see some testing confirming this :)
nekomatafuyu yeah it’s significantly easier to hit your targets with heavier BBs. thanks for the kind comments.
You need to move up in weight if you’re playing outside. I use .32 and am testing .36. Much more consistency if there’s even a slight breeze
I also own and use an ASG EVO 3A1, but it has been modded with a flathop, torque motor and bit of internal work (shimming, AoE, airseal). The stock gun is pretty amazing as is, but slightly modified and its amazing. Also, here on most US based, outdoor fields we are allowed to shoot at 400FPS, so that helps a lot with using heavier weight BBs. But its the addition of the flat hop that has really helped the short barreled EVO as far as range and the heavier BBs help with accuracy as you found out in your test. I always use .28g bio BBs when I play outdoors. Indoor arenas or CQB fields generally require the guns to shoot 350FPS or lower and only use .20g BBs. But the .28g BBs are my "Go To" BB weight for all of my airsoft guns, pistols included. Though I have been messing around with .32g BBs in some of my guns.
Fun Video! Please do more!
very useful, thanks
Barrel length vs accuracy next 😄
KCP FARGO noted. I have three barrels on order for that.
Airsoft Action TV would be interesting to see BB weights for each barrel length too
Barrel length doesn't matter that much, look at the EVO in the test!
Even Barrel volume / cilinder volume doesn't matter to some extend ^^
But hey, test it anyway ;)
I'm fairly certain you're right Maarten, but it'll be nice to see it proven :)
I switched up to .28s a couple of years ago because the tippmann really needs a heavier bb, now I use the .28s in most of my pistols and the evo as well, the difference between .25s and .28s in the Tippmann and the Evo is really noticeable.
Interesting Video. I've always used .25, I think I might have to try some .28's.
andrew blackmore I would ;)
Quite interested in future Epiposed. Belgium has a 350+10 max FPS limit, so close enough to take this test to heart.
Thank you for this, AATV
I've been using .28 Devil Blasters since I did the magazine accuracy tests at 10m about a year ago. Gadge is a convert now too!
Don't know if Devil Blasters have a 'Enviromental Friendly Report' or something here in Belgium ( can't use it otherwise ), but I've been using Green Devil Bio .25 for ages.
Time to upgrade to .30 ( I think it might make a difference with upgraded, stiffer hoprubber and that extra 30 FPS we get here.
ASG do an 'Open Blaster' Bio BB which I believe is made to the same quality standard as the Devils
As a newbie ... Really useful. Thanks.
No probs. Glad you found it useful. Is there another subject you would like us to cover?
@@AnvilAirsoftTV cheers for the response. Perhaps a test of ranges or trajectory for the same along with the chrony fps data. I bought a CXP HOG M4 running at 340fps on .28s so I am trying to put a weaker spring back in to make it run at 340 on .20s. After watching your video here I am going to make it chrony at that then switch to .28s. Cheers again guys.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV ps... Subbed.
Good videos lads. I was using .28's in my SLR (around 390-400 FPS) and was getting great grouping results, I switched to .30's at the last Gunman Vietnam game and the results where even better. Range still about 50-60 meters max at a rough guesstemet. What I like about the .28's and .30's is they don't seem to deflect as much and will punch through when shooting through light foliage etc.
Ian Taylor they seem much more stable at the end of the flight too. I run .28s in my AEGs with great results.
Yer after the Vietnam game I've swopped to the .28's in my sterling and the left over .25's have gone in to my mix up bag of BB's for use in my gimpy to give that support gun spread lol. I've been really happy with the results of the .28 and .30's
Are you getting 390/400 fps with. 28 s?
Great video, looking forward to seeing the next one. What scope are you using on the EVO?
A Tyro with a Pyro thanks. Gadge is using an Eotech replica he got from JD Airsoft in the UK
Thanks for such an informative video! I had no idea the differences in accuracy between those four weights were that big. When I first got into airsoft I learned fairly quickly that 0.12g bb's have no accuracy, no range, and go up, up and away even with the slightest breeze. I suppose every new airsoft player learns that one pretty fast. So I switched to .20's and that seemed to fix everything, but never did I think of going heavier than that. I'm a WWII and Vietnam reenactor so I'm virtually not using anything modern (the only two AEG's I have at the moment are a Cybergun Thompson and an AGM MP40, along with a springer kar98k that I build from a bar10/vsr11 and a couple CO2 pistols). I'm gonna have to get some different weight bb's and mess around w/ the hop ups to see what works best in each one!
Hi thanks for commenting. It’s amazing the improvement you can get from changing BB weight and BB quality. Easy the best and easiest ‘upgrade’ you can make.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV It sure is! I actually ordered some .23's and .25's shortly after watching this video haha. That'll be my upgrade 😄
I've just bought a ton of .25s after using 0.2s for ages, great video and I'm looking forward to using my 0.25s
.28's show better accuracy here bud! :) happy shooting!
I dont see a reason to get .28s when .30s exist...
@@Tapirrr just get 0.48
Great video - and nice step up in production there, is that a gimbal being used at the start and other points? Big difference!
Purple Helmet yeah it’s quite a thing. Smooth 4 gimbal on an iPhone 7
Purple Helmet thankyou for the kind comment, it was me doing the gimbaling.
Really improves the quality of the footage ten fold!
Purple Helmet I think we need more work experience Gimbal Operators in.
.28's it is then! Thanks lads!
No problems. I’m on .32g on some of my more upgraded AEGs now. Needs a good hop though.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV oh nice! I've been upgrading a secondhand g&g armament cm16 thing haha, for the hop (at the moment) I have a green cold resistant bucking, that I converted into a flat hop (very make shift lol) & a new ally rotary hop combo, with tape barber striped on the outside of the inner barrel, to secure it from vibrations! (for that end, so far) works like a dream!
Also, on the front part of your hop, the flat part that would have a space in the mag-well, fold up some card, or stick something too fill that gap (this will push your hop as close as possible, to the chamber, initially making a better air seal!) Works better than that spring lol
If you're UK, this site has the cheapest prices so far! Www.ak2m4.co.uk!
I had always assumed that we should be using the heaviest bbs we can effectively hop. You don't lose much energy once you leave the barrel with the heavier bb. The .2 lose half their velocity at around 50 ft. The amount lost incrementally decreases as you move up in heavy weight.
Pretty much, there's a later video on the channel called time to target where we demonstrate that.
Good stuff fellas. Im a beginner myself and im just wondering the pros and cons of different weights and fps etc
Have a good look through our videos as we continue to develop this series.
Thank you for this test! I asked prev time. I own an EVO and also use 0.28grams, but it can also hop Sniper weight BB’s and asg bio 0.32grams. Not sure why yours can’t.
Difference for me is my evo shoots 354fps (360fps is limit or 1.2J) and I use the open bio blaster asg BB’s. (We all should, plastic should be shot in grass non bio)
For evo smg use the Orga barrel 6.04mm with prometheus purple bucking and a namazu firefly nub for massive range increase.
Also: get the ball bearing spring guide and a asg millspec m95 spring to get 340fps on the evo and better consistency because of the ball bearing spring guide.
I’d like to see a flat hopped evo range test on sub 350fps (our limit is 360fps on 0.2)
According to the EVO group community, a ORGA barrel with 6.04mm with prometheus purple bucking and a namazu firefly (hard) nub should get max consistency and range
Gadge’s Evo has a m95 and a spring guide in it. We’ll be doing upgraded AEGs next including the EVO. You may get a increase in effective range but it’s unlikely that you’ll get an large increase in maximum range unless the power goes up. If a gun is capable of over hopping without robbing power it doesn’t really matter what hop unit is in it. Regarding the EVO group no one has been able to provide any data to prove their claims. :)
Airsoft Action TV Thanks! According to the Evo Owners group (simon) a orga lex 6.05mm barrel and a namazu firefly red nub and roller bar will increase range but mostly tighter groupings. People like Simon Moore day it gets head sized groupings at 60meter like that. Others say like 5meter extra effective range and 10m range “uneffective”
Really love these videos and the replies!
My evo is shooting slightly hotter but fps is still more similar vs existing is videos and other too high fps countries.
Ball bearing spring guide shoot help with consistency aswell as increase fps by 12 on the EVO (cheapest drop in upgrade) also my internals have been upgraded and short stroked, but for range i’d need a flat hop and maybe a better suited barrel. Thanks ALOT!!
I’ve spoken to Simon about this. Whilst it may be true at the time we discussed it he had done no testing and had no data on the effects of changing Barrel and hop rubber. He had simply read it elsewhere on the internet and was just repeating what he had seen. Be careful about your sources! The reason he recommends an orga barrel is that it’s easier to do a flat hop mod as there are cuts made to take a normal hop rubber.
Airsoft Action TV Thank you! Once again. Hope you can do a proper test later. Thank you
The trigger response on that AK is horrendous! 😆
Totally stock LCT probably on a 7.4V LiPo. The motors were/are the weak point.
I mostly play with a ghk ak gbbr. It fires about 1j on .32 (if I go heavier it joule creeps but that's what gbbrs do) the hop just over hops anything lighter. But yeah most airsoft guns .25 .28 seems to be best so this is what I was expecting to see. Lots of people seem to think there stock guns can shot out to like 60 70 meters but I think it's due to the fact most people don't know how to judge distance at all.
Jesscrayons going by our testing 50-55m is about the maximum range without lobbing them in.
I think a lot of people do lob them in is the thing to. And it's something you even see in people doing in airsoft videos on youtube of them aiming really high above a persons head and letting them drop down in to people.
I would personally like it if sights would tell people not to lob bbs tbh and airsoft players in general could admit are toy guns don't shoot that far.
Jesscrayons the old airsoft mortar! :)
See I was using 0.25s for years, thought I'd try 0.3s and got same results of vastly reduced range and feeding issues in mags that are normally great
Really depends on what BB and how efficient your hop unit is.. I use 0.32g Open Blasters out of my TM Mk18 now. Also very dependent on mag quality and springs in then. I tend to download a bit with the bigger capacity midcaps and use 100 BBs for example in a 150 magazine.
I love what you guys are doing but I have a criticism to make.
The viewers could learn more from the video if they could see the BBs' flight trajectory. You could achieve this by filming over a dark background (e.g. trees) and by filming from an angle where the gun and the target are closer together in the shot.
Keep up the good work!
+LankyJab have a look at the latest range videos. There’s a couple on zeroing that have BB flight shown in them. We used a Skoped Vision adaptor by a company called Phone Skope to film directly through our optic.
This video is getting on for a year old now :)
My kwa rm4 a1 would hop .30 easily yet was 300fps on a .20. It out ranged every other gun at the site inc. T M recoils. It was stock apart from a guarder clear hop rubber.
We’ve had problems with KWA hop rubbers. The stock LCT isn’t great either.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV the hop rubber is hard as American fps is 400. I was advised when I bought it to change to a soft rubber. I stuck a £5 guarder in it and it shot far. I landed a good 70m shot at camp nomad. I couldn't believe it when he called hit.
What mag pouch are you using in the video for the Scorpion EVO 3 mags?
Viper Tactical SMG mags
Heavier BBs do not increase range by a significant amount as your range depends entirely on your exit velocity and hop. However, heavier BBs do have more energy because the bb weight does not linearly affect your muzzle velocity. In other words, it makes more sense to talk about exit kinetic energy. Let's say you fire 0.2g at 400fps and you then you load 0.25g and you get 365fps. Well, the first time you got 1.4864 Joules with 0.2g rounds and the second time you actually got 1.5471 Joules so your kinetic energy was actually higher the second time around because kinetic energy is E = (mv^2)/2. In other words, your bb will now hit harder. But wait there's more! Because of your BB is actually moving slower now you get LESS aerodynamic drag equal to the 1 - v^2 (.25g)/v(.2g)^2 = 0.1673 which means 16.73% less drag. In other words, they hit harder and keep their speed for longer! As a plus, they're also less likely to veer as far off course. But unfortunately, they do not increase range by any significant amount.
The major factor you’re missing in your explanation is back spin. Heavier BBs can take more back spin from the hop. As long as you are using a good efficient hop unit that doesn’t rob too much muzzle energy you can apply more backspin without over hopping and gain more range. We were loosing muzzle energy in these stock guns due to normal hop units as the BB weight went up.
For exaample my 1.14J KWA with a flat hop mod will do 55-60m with a 0.20g but can reach out past 75m with a 0.32g
Like most American players, I feel we get caught up with the magic 400fps. I play at 2 fields and 1 field has a 1 joule limit for aegs and the other is 1.75joules. I only had 1 aeg at the time and got sick of swapping springs. Kept the indoor setup of m100 spring and was at .98 joules using .36g bbs. It's a stock krytac lvoa-c with only upgrades being a gate titan and a rhopped Prometheus barrel from umbrella armory. I was surprised to see that I didn't have to rezero my sight when shooting at 200ft targets. With the decrease of almost .75 joules my accuracy out to 200ft did not change, just the amount of time it took to get to target. I also did not have to change the hop. Seems odd and makes me wonder at what range does the joules increase or decrease have a noticeable affect.
Difference between power and hop performance. You need both for a good flight performance and really there is only so hard you can push a relatively light BB. The higher the power the heavier the ammo you need and the better the hop unit to harness it.
Because of the decrease in power as you apply more hop to lift the heavier bbs. My field requires players to chrono with the hop completely off. For instance, my aeg has a new m125 spring and is at 430 fps with .2g bbs and is around 1.575 joules. When I add hop for .36 bbs my fps drops to 310 fps and the joules drops to around 1.1 - 1.2 joules
Hi guys, quick question: Can you give me the measurements of the Scorpion Evo Mags? I want to check if they will fit the pouches I have.
Thank you in advance,
Sebastian Fick
I’ll ask for you.
24mm x 41mm x 220mm
@@AnvilAirsoftTV thank you soooo much!!!
Can you perform this same test with pistols. Green gas vs c02?
Oh ya great video again. Love your channel!!!!!
Mntoyaz we’ll look into it. Thanks for the idea
The results will be the same on spring, AEG, GBB, NBB, polarstars, whatever
I run .3s in pretty much everything I use. But then my hop is never stock. The first thing I do is throw in a better barrel and flat hop them. The only stock hop unit is in my TM recoil and it lifts .3s easily.
Pippin my LCT AK-104 is flat hopped so we’ll be taking that along next time with hopefully some custom TMs
Airsoft Action TV nice. I think this is where we will see the most difference.
Pippin we are looking forward to finding out. We really enjoy doing these tests
I can imagine, and the weather has been great for it. I think the main thing will be the softness of the bucking. You dont need to crank the nub down so you reduce the pressure on the bb which means youll be keeping more velocity for the same amount of hop or more. At least this is what makes sense in my mind. Im looking forward to the video.
flat hopped Prommy purple bucking, firefly nub, it's very accurate and it's effective range is very close to it's maximum range, don't want to give too much away though :)
i have a bit of a confuion going out here:) .... normaly when you increase the BB weight, the power should remain the same and the velocity should go down a bit.
cause the power formula is Energy= 1/2 Mass x Velocity ^2 ( square)
that means - .2 with 120 mps =1.44 jouls , .25 with 108 mps = 1.45 Jouls, .28 with 99-101 mps = 1.43 J and .3 with 93-95 mps = 1.39 Jouls ( this is wih 0 hop)
so the energy you ware measuring was it with Hop_unit set for that weigh ? cause otherwise i don`t know how could the J ave gone that far down from 1.1J to 0.52 J with 0.3 ?
Beeing in Romania, where local fields accept somewhere around 120-125 mps for AEG asault with a MED of 1-7 M ( under 110 mps is 1M over 110 to 125 is 7M), i manage to see that the best BB to be used in CQB style gameplay is 0.28 and 0.3 BB, just because in the CQB games, the targe mostly is extremly small, and u need a verry good accuracy, and at close range engagements 5-15 M , u need to hit a small Head hiden behinde the replica, or the hand that holds the replica. so speed of the BB, realy dosent count that much.
pls corect me if i`m wrong :)
and one more thing to add. theoretically the 0.2 BB should have a MAX range much grater then a 0.28 BB. because we have air friction, and the inertia generated by the acceleration of the BB is lower with a 0.2 BB then a 0.28 that has a slightly bigger inertia and the same air friction ( same surface that gets in contact with the oposing force - air ) meaning that the 0.28 will have a slightly bigger max range.
the improvement is more visible at effective range.
why you might ask.. is because he hop pattern of the BB cause later in play ( the effect when the BB goes a bit up and the goes down ) that happens when the force that generates the backspin is bigger then the force applying the acceleration. the acceleration is canceled to to air friction, but at heavy weight BB the inertia gives the bb a slower decrease in acceleration resulting in a longer and steady flight path before the the hop effect of the BB.
conclusion: the small weight BB should go faster and further, but because of external forces it can not.
so a heavier bb will give a slight increase of max range* and a substantial increase in effective range**
*the distance that the BB falls o the ground
**the distance where the BB still have a small grouping and the Hop effect dosent come in to play
and there is another thing you can do, if you calculate the cylinder volume and inner barrel volume you will find a 1.8 up to 2.4 or even higher correlation.
V cyl / V bar = 1.6-1.8 that means the the barrel is to long to hop heavy BB`s, but if you have a 1.9- 2.2 it prefect for .25- .28 BB, gong for sniper rifles hat have a 2.6-2.8 or even more at some models. that is why at barrels longer the 363 you can not use ported cylinders. you need to find the exact perfect length so the BB will reach it max velocity inside the inner barrel cause once it gets out of the barrel the decrease of speed will kick in do to air friction. and if you have a smaller barrel the max velocity will not be reached.
the same goes if you have a longer then needed barrel, the max velocity will be reached but the inertia generated will decrease on the last part of the barrel resulting in a smaller MAX range.
now that i have explained all of this :)) i can go to work :)
Hops were set to properly lift the BB in all cases.
Indeed. You should use the heaviest BB that your replica can efficiently lift for best range and accuracy.
My ideal rep would be something to hit torso sized targets from about 40mts away with good consistency. Could anybody reccomend an M4/AK platform for about £200?
My current recommendation would be a Specna Arms AR or a CYMA AK. Both would leave you with a bit of cash for extra mags etc.
Mas marauder as well
I need .3s cause I run r hop. I would just say that everyone should use the heaviest bbs they can hop.
I agree. As long as you don’t loose too much energy hopping them.
Booger 👆
Using 0.43g at 1.96J in an R-hopped support weapon. Very costly, but when they hit someone, they really feel it.
Not something we can do in the UK. That would be a DMR or bolt action over here. I am now using .32g in my TM Mk18 at 1.1J
Tightbore vs stock barrel
Upgraded hop up chamber vs stock
its a big project Vitor but these are certainly variables we wanted to check and a good suggestion. The key was to start with a a baseline and work up by slowly changing each factor.
Gadge has just bought hop up chamber upgrades for the EVO to see it helps with a .30 bb or improves the flight of the .28 (which is pretty good anyway).
Wide bore vs tight bore would maybe more interesting but most airsoft guns are poo with a wide bore so it would be complex to compare
Jesscrayons we would have to run an HPA or do some serious gearbox work to an AEG for a widebore. We can look at doing an HPA episode in the future. Neither of us has any real experience with HPA so we would need to learn or find someone who does.
been using 0.25bb's & it shoots like laser
Try some .28s if it will lift them happily.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV i would, thanks :)
In my opinion the best weight is 0,28g bbs
I’ve been up to .36g in my TM Recoil. Largely though I agree. In our testing most stock airsoft guns seem to perform best with 0.28g
Are 0.2 accurate for bolt action rifles
.20s aren’t accurate for anything
Try .40s lol
You need to be using the absolute heaviest you can hop
20s are for chrono testing
Thate means for my airsoft ak are 0,25s best?
Run as heavy a BB as your AK can lift without loosing too much power. It’s impossible to give you a better guideline unless I had it in front of me with a load of different weight BBs and a chrono.
use 28s or 30s , 32s are the max i wouldn’t go higher then that
Wait... uh.- Where are the heavy weight BB's? These are all weights I run in me pistol? Where's the .36-.69?
We tested the more Common weights shot out of stock uk legal AEGs. There’s a later video that goes up to .36g and I’ll do a another heavier weight video if/when I get a platform that can adequately lift them, that will probably be a uk spec DMR
@@AnvilAirsoftTV Oh cool I'll read that up. Oh you are UK! Hah, I get it now, gotcha. Yeah I run .36's in my ACR (WE MSK) and she does fine. GBBR's have more than enough joules to push heavier weights even at lower speed because of nature of expanding gas vs compression (AEG/BASR).
Yeah I was pushing .36g through my GHK M4A1 at 1.2J before the hop unit cracked.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV Oh yeah the hop-up is complete rubbish on those haha. Hephaestus sells an aftermarket version that's made out of steel. Actually, they sell a steel replacement for every single internal part of them which can make a pretty sweet gun haha.
I’m looking at getting the TNT hop and barrel. Do you have experience with that one?
wtf kind of rigs are you guys wearing. they are basically bras ffs
The ever classic Chi-Com chest rig (Chinese type 56). A very versatile, historical, lightweight and cheap option that anyone with any interest in fire arms history should recognise.
@@AnvilAirsoftTV
Chinese, that explains it. Sorry to hear that but thnx for the information.
Sorry to hear it’s chinese? I Think you need to educate yourself. Chi coms have been used by all sorts of special forces in all sorts of conflicts right up to the present day when they want to fit in. That kind of attitude isn’t welcome on this channel.