I love you two, you give me hope. As someone from the UK I struggle with feelings of complicity also, and I often feel helpless. I really appreciate your open honesty. Keep going!
Guys this is such an important thing you do, to sit and talk aknowledging all the layers are playing in this insanity.. Thanks to the three of you Please don't feel discouraged since this is the path to build peace and justice. Hugs from Uruguay ❤
I'm glad you said about the lack of empathy for the Israeli hostages...or at least its not for the hostages as such but the pleas and appeals from people like Standing Together who start to ask for peace with their tshirts emblazened with Bring Them Home...which seems to be centred on hostages,rather than the fact that at least...at least 50.000 Palestinians have been killed and more than 70.000 with life changing wounds,amputations etc,severe burns,shrapnel wounds. It is hard to focus on the 136 or so hostages when we are seeing slaughted Palestinians everyday with dismembered bodies...won't go into latest gory details..unbelievable scenes. If you can manage to somehow see a documentary made by the BBC about "both sides",that is the people at the NOva festival and then what the Palestinians in Gaza have been thorugh since Oct 7th.I found it very hard to feel much sympathy for those at the festival especially when one of the narratives at the beginning was talking about this so called "peace festival..full of unconditional love..."and some such BS...I mean seriously the festival was a rave in the desert in effect and its hard to understand the level of entitlement and hedonism that seems to be a feature of Israeli society and in particular these spiritual communities that exsit in amny parts of the west.Of course I have empathy when they are talking about running for their lives or or relatives who want their loved one back but do they even give a *hit about Palestinians !!! when they see babies brains being blown up and all they can think of is "their loved ones"...I know this goes to the heart of what you are talking about but its still hard to fathom the selective empathy. Sorry to go on...these are issues and feelings I have myself grappled with in regards to many other things not just Israel/palestine,this ability we have as humans to ignore evidence and how our prejudices and emotional triggers can blind us to reality or being open to hearing evidence that would contradict or challenge our beliefs or preconceptions,our deepest held often unexamined beliefs. We ALL do it to varying degrees...all of us,its just that when its on such a scale as we see in Israel,but all societies there is a "manufactured consensus"that totally bypasses peoples critical faculties or ability for any reflection or examination. It happens in ALL societies.
I felt exactly what Alon was talking about growing up in NYC. Here it is race and the lack of equality around how we look. Have either of you read James Baldwin? His writing was reminding me of this world of Zionism you have been teaching us all to be more aware of. You two are beautiful lights in this world that is getting so dark
I"m just starting to listen and am loving the conversation, and of course the intro was banging! I had a small realization that I want to share: recently I listened to a series of lectures on the Crusades that occurred during the 11th and 12th centuries... and I realized, Israel and Zionism is in a way just another Crusade! Basically: an ideology that is born in Europe that lays a religious/identitarian claim to the Holy Land and uses this to justify enormous bloodshed and suffering. The Crusades held on to parts of the Levant for almost two hundred years... let's hope Zionism does not.
I am a Gen X American of Jewish origin and i would love to speak with you sometime! I have an interesting perspective . I spent about 3 years of my life on israel and have spent the last 20 years unpacking the indoctrination of my youth ! There are less of us who have woken from the indoctrination and gaslighting. I had a fascinating but incomplete discussion with a boomer Jewish guy at the dog park yesterday ! I would love to chat and bring the experience of older Jewish Americans raised in the Zionist Cult who escaped but not without cost, my sister and her family now do not speak to me, long story.
@@elik_harpazI Love your channel I just found it today through another channel I was watching and a few clips of your content came up so I looked you up. Very brave what the two of you are doing especially because you're living in Israel, and you were surrounded by it. I pray every day that there can be peace and this war will stop. May God give you strength to continue what you are doing and speaking out. By the way, I love the songs in the beginning of the program . 🌏✌️❤️🙏
Unchecked power regardless of idiology is ALWAYS bad. There are people that are incapable of empathy, shame, humility, (short list) and they crave power their only emotion is vengance, masters of manipulation. And decent people are easily manipulated into supporting psychopaths into positions of power. A setteler called into a show on youtube and had no information of the life of palastinians in tge westbank or gaza. Do you know about tge history of zionist terror around the world going back over a hundred years. ✌💞 fellow earthlings. PS Apreciate your show. keep it up. Be safe.
what a remarkable conversation, beautiful to behold! and as before, i find myself thinking we could have a very fertile talk about the role of geometry in the production and maintenance of colonial monoculture as it sets the rules on how to think. when Elik speaks of his experiences in the relationship with his zionist past and his family and the society around you, one word comes up again and again: "normal" my view is that this actually points to a very relevant aspect of the whole situation, namely the geometry at play and the mistaken definition of "orthogonal" and "static" units as "normal". this is at the very root of this entire so called civilization and goes together with a fundamental disconnect that you keep bringing up, with regards to "separation" and "identity". now with what i have learned about the operational mathematics and animate, experiential geometry of Synergetics, we could have a very deep look at all of that and a suggestion, perhaps, for a whole state solution, one where unity is plural and at minimum two, "up and down" are remembered to really be out and in, all boundaries are respected as the embracing lines of connections forming membranes binding the two sides of the whole, inside&outside, together. a place where we all recognize and tune into resonance with our shared kinside, our spherical identity with kinship Eairth... i would really love to speak about all of this with you Alon and Elik, perhaps Saleh, too. there's a bloody room around the elephant, one we need to acknowledge and recognize for the falsehood it is, and just like that we won't just be "thinking outside the box" but actually think and be without it, within and around spheres, instead🙏 salaam and a free 🍉 may all our kin from the rivers to the seas be free
I loved whst i heard as a dissident jazz/Doors vibe, very appropriate! Cornell west, like all great musician' before him, makes alot of music as a form of resistance, which can play a pivotal role in this revolution, eg Lowkeys work. What you guys are doing, this dialogue and speaking out is so important, don't sell yourselves short on this. It shows that there is another way, right there in the belly of the beast and rolemodels massive courage. After Palestine is free your presence there will be needed to heal those who want to stay and heal. If you choose to stay because you love palestine it's showing another way for other jews. But not only after, yiu are oart of the process of change. You are creating a new society. Alon being rejected at an early age because your individuality and intelligence sets you outside social norms does open a fantastic window to seeing outside the dominant ideology. Elek you probably wanted so much to belong as you are a very humane person, that you managed to avoid questions in favour if fitting in until the cost became to great and you were old enough to.kniw you could survivive.. Gabor mate talks about this as a battle between needing to belong and to be authentic and it leads to much mental and physical Illness but people who suffer have the opportunity to wake up to and belong to a greater humanity without having to sacrifice their authenticity. Some people shut down and harden their zombie egoism/ideological identity when faced with threat and suffering but others crack open to greater human udentity which embraces difference and is fundamentally more at peace. Ideologucally brainwashed/prograneed states are very reactive becayse stuck in flight/fight mode. An authentic human identity is not atuck in survival mide but can acknowledge mortality and manage fear without being utterly overwhelmed by many practices of connection to other people and life forms and the planet and our own bodies. We take solace abd find peace in being and appreciating being children of the universe. I'd love to talk to you, privately or not. Another great conversation, thankyou, they heal us all by helping us understand the contradictions we all live with.
This is my struggle, I don't want to move as hard as it gets are everything is getting more scary and expensive and having employment is always always under question mark, the ability to sustain is always under a question mark if you come from this struggle, the struggle is to officially get to the whole of Palestine to be recognized as Palestine and israel to be relegated to the past tense. The status quo is impossible, most of those who leave are not doing so out of questioning Zionism but purely out of comfort bc nothing is comfortable here nothing that can be less comfortable in say Germany or Canada. In many ways leaving is a privilege and those are the majority of those who leave (this includes Palestinians for very understandable reasons bc the status quo is harsher on them, including the privileged ones.) From my personal perspective I already live in Palestine that's just under occupation, most of the apartments in my building are owned by Palestinians, I hear Arabic spoken every day either from my window or when I walk down the street, getting in and out of the building. Its not a question of cultural shift even at all, its a question of being officially occupied by the Zionist regime.
I think we are all hear because we believe that a better future is possible. For a start I think Israeli must stop seing themselves as white and accept that they are SEMITE closer to the Arab world than to Europe. Like what’s the point to moving back the the. Middle East if you want to be WHITE
You talk about other areas of control and given the rise of the right in Europe it would interesting to look at how the emotional systems are used by the far right so effectively and what can the left and/or minority groups do to counter this growing normalisation of Islamophobia.
In my experience freely working together - for example building a school or teding to veggie garden ( not for salary profit) is the best way to meet and learn. Thank u for beautiful work and presence!
Please check out the article by Mary Turfah, called 'Running Amok'. She did an analysis of psychology behind zionism. Reach out to her. She'd be a great guest.
Social medicine arises at the level of the wounds inflicted.....beyond the imagination of the perpetrators. Even this must resist the predictable hijack attempts: Yes, even this.
🎯 Key points for quick navigation: 00:01 🎤 Song about the conflict in Palestine This clip opens with a song that expresses the narrator's frustration and pain about the violence in Palestine. The song speaks from the perspective of a child born into the conflict and questioning why it's necessary. The song also highlights the feeling of being trapped in a situation with no escape. 03:30 🎙 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests This section introduces the Yalla podcast and its hosts, Elik and Alon. It also introduces the guest speaker for this episode, Saleh, a Palestinian doctor living in Sweden. Saleh is presented as an expert in personality psychology and its relation to the human brain. 05:21 🎧 The Yalla Podcast and its Mission This section explains the aim behind the Yalla podcast and its focus on anti-Zionism. The hosts, Elik and Alon, are Israeli Jews who identify as anti-Zionists and advocate for the liberation of Palestine. The podcast is designed to provide a platform for discussion and open-minded dialogue with individuals who share their vision of a free Palestine. 07:10 😨 Elik's personal struggle and feeling of complicity This section delves into Elik's personal struggle with living in Israel while being an anti-Zionist. Elik expresses feelings of guilt for being complicit in the ongoing occupation and genocide, even while actively resisting Zionism. Elik also mentions the feeling of being a traitor to his family and society, often feeling ostracized for his beliefs. 09:37 🧠 Exploring the difference between ethics and morality This section introduces the concepts of ethics and morality and their relationship to Elik's internal conflict. Saleh explains the difference between ethics, which are based on fixed principles and ideals, and morality, which comes from a deeper, more intuitive place. Saleh argues that morality is dynamic and fluid, while ethics are often rigid and can lead to oppressive behavior, even while acting under the guise of a higher principle. 13:18 📚 Examining Kant's Critique of Practical Reason This section focuses on Kant's Critique of Practical Reason and its application to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The group, comprised of Elik, Alon, and Saleh, read and analyze passages from the text, attempting to find solutions to the conflict. They highlight Kant's assertion that ethical rules cannot be based on personal tribal affiliations, suggesting that the concept of prioritizing one's own "tribe" is inherently unethical. 15:51 🧭 Navigating Ethics and Morality in Action This section revisits Elik's internal conflict and how morality plays a role in his actions. The conversation emphasizes that morality is not simply a theoretical concept, but rather a practical tool for guiding one's actions. It also acknowledges that even in moments of fear, individuals may not follow their moral compass, highlighting the complexities of human behavior. 16:48 🤝 The Disconnect Between Israeli and Palestinian Ethics This section delves into the fundamental disconnect between Israeli and Palestinian ethics, highlighting the difference in their respective ideals. It reveals how Israeli society often dismisses or ignores differing perspectives, highlighting the need for more nuanced dialogue. It also challenges the notion of a shared ethical framework, emphasizing the need to consider the distinct realities and experiences of both sides. 17:43 🗺 Elik's Perspective on Residing in Palestine versus Israel This section introduces Elik's controversial idea of "moving" from Israel to Palestine, not geographically, but conceptually. Elik believes that aligning oneself with Palestine through values, connections, and actions is a crucial step in opposing the Israeli occupation. This idea challenges the traditional notion of geographical boundaries and emphasizes the importance of actively choosing which community one aligns with. 19:04 🧭 Alon's Journey to Identifying as Palestinian This section details Alon's personal journey and his identification with the Palestinian identity. Alon reflects on the positive reactions he received from Palestinians when he openly declared his Palestinian identification. This conversation challenges the conventional view of identity politics and opens up a broader dialogue about the complexities of individual identification. 20:30 🧬 The Historical Nature of Palestinian Identity This section explores the historical nuance of the Palestinian identity, explaining how it wasn't always an ethnic marker. The conversation highlights how Palestinian identity historically encompassed individuals of different religions and ethnicities who shared the land and culture. The conversation also asserts that Palestinian identity is not solely based on religious or ethnic lines, but rather on a shared connection to the land and its history. 21:34 🚫 Demystifying the Pro-Palestinian Movement This section aims to dispel common misconceptions about the pro-Palestinian movement. Saleh addresses the Zionist narrative of the pro-Palestinian movement as fanatical or extremist, emphasizing that the movement is not about expelling Jewish people or promoting religious fundamentalism. Saleh highlights the Palestinian desire for liberation and self-determination, rejecting the Zionist narrative that portrays the movement as violent or hostile. 22:17 🕊 The Pro-Palestinian Movement's Core Values This section clarifies the fundamental values of the pro-Palestinian movement. It reiterates that Palestinians primarily seek peaceful coexistence and self-determination, rejecting the notion of harming or expelling Jewish people. It emphasizes the desire for a free and just Palestine, where all individuals can live in peace and equality. 23:57 🧠 Examining the Zionist Response to Palestinian Dialogue This section analyzes the typical Zionist response to discussions about Palestinian rights and self-determination. It suggests that Zionist ideology often automatically dismisses any critique or alternative perspective, labeling it as false, ignorant, or malicious. It highlights the need to challenge this rigid mindset and engage in genuine dialogue to foster understanding and promote peace. 25:35 🎙 Saleh Expresses Appreciation for the Podcast Saleh shares his positive experience with the podcast, particularly the One State Solution episode, which resonated deeply with him. It introduced him to a new perspective on Israeli society and provided him with a sense of community and understanding. 29:45 🧠 Exploring the Psychological and Societal Dynamics of Zionism Saleh reveals his fascination with the psychological mechanisms underlying Zionist ideology, specifically how an entire society can perpetrate crimes without acknowledging them. This leads to a discussion about the normalization of violence and oppression, and how individuals within the system grapple with their own complicity. 36:14 🧬 Saleh Introduces Affective Neuroscience Saleh explains how he delves into the intricate connection between emotions and the brain. He shares how narratives effectively manipulate our emotional systems, influencing our beliefs and behavior. He then introduces the concept of seven primary emotional systems in the brain, shared by all mammals, which influence our instinctive responses and survival mechanisms. 44:04 🕹 The Brain as a Multi-Layered System Saleh highlights the brain's multi-layered structure, which includes the primary process level for instincts, emotions, and reflexes, the secondary process level for basic learning, and the tertiary process level for higher-level thought, planning, and morality. He emphasizes that these layers are interconnected and influence each other, and how external factors like ideologies can interfere with this harmonious flow. An overactivation of the primary and secondary levels, potentially caused by indoctrination, can override higher-level thinking, leading to irrational, emotional responses. 50:21 🧠 The Hijacking of Emotions In this section, the speakers discuss how emotions can be manipulated by ideologies, leading to a state of indoctrination. This indoctrination can lead individuals to act against their own beliefs and values, as they become consumed by a specific narrative. The speakers illustrate this concept by drawing parallels between the Nazi regime and the current state of affairs in Israel, suggesting that fear and trauma can be exploited for political gain. 58:06 ⚖ The Deformed Tertiary System & Theory of Mind The discussion delves into the concept of theory of mind, a cognitive ability that allows individuals to understand the perspectives and thoughts of others. The lack of theory of mind in those who are indoctrinated leads to a breakdown in rational discourse, as they are unable to see the contradictions in their own beliefs. This phenomenon is illustrated with the example of a politician who quotes Hitler's sentiments without recognizing the absurdity and moral implications of his actions. Made with HARPA AI
01:01:18 🗣 The Difficulties of Rational Dialogue The speakers explore the challenges in having constructive discussions with individuals deeply indoctrinated by ideologies. The inability to utilize higher-level cognitive processes, particularly theory of mind, hinders meaningful dialogue, as the indoctrinated individuals are unable to engage in rational debate. This phenomenon is likened to dealing with religious fundamentalists or individuals in a "werewolf state", where their emotional responses take over, preventing them from logically processing arguments. 01:03:03 🧬 The Mechanisms of Ideological Indoctrination This section delves into the universality of ideological indoctrination, emphasizing that it transcends specific ideologies like Zionism. The speakers explore the potential for various ideologies and cults to employ similar mechanisms to control individual minds, ultimately leading to a suppression of critical thinking. The dangers of these mechanisms are highlighted by drawing parallels with fascism, cults, and "mind viruses", emphasizing their potential to create oppressive systems. 01:06:22 🧭 Identifying True Emotions The speakers grapple with the complex question of distinguishing between genuine emotions and those imposed by external ideologies. The challenge lies in recognizing whether our emotional responses are rooted in our own internal reality or are the result of external influences. The conversation reflects the internal struggle individuals might face within a society saturated with propaganda and various ideologies. 01:08:17 🕵The Importance of Seeking Truth This section emphasizes the necessity of questioning our own motivations and desires, particularly in relation to consuming information and navigating complex societal issues. The conversation highlights the tendency to rationalize and seek explanations that align with our existing biases rather than actively pursuing truth. The speakers assert that true curiosity and a genuine desire for understanding are essential for disentangling ourselves from the clutches of ideologies and propaganda. 01:11:41 🧩Liberal Indoctrination and the Need for Empathy The conversation moves towards examining the mechanisms of liberal indoctrination, analyzing its motivations and potential pitfalls. The speakers suggest that the desire to be perceived as "good people" can drive liberal ideology and potentially obscure a more nuanced understanding of complex issues. The need for empathy and understanding is emphasized, urging individuals to examine the motivations and emotional needs that drive different ideologies. 01:13:42 🧠 Indoctrination and Emotional Systems Indoctrination hijacks primary emotional systems, which in turn affect the tertiary system, leading to a distorted view of empathy and compassion. The example of a therapist's sudden shift to Zionism illustrates how the "care system" can be manipulated to justify harmful actions. 01:18:18 🎭 Zionism and the Manipulation of Good Intentions Zionists often present themselves as good people motivated by a desire to protect their families and children, but their ideology justifies harmful actions. The "care system" can be hijacked to promote harmful ideas by focusing on one's own children over others, creating a narrow and biased sense of empathy. 01:21:18 🛡 The Fear System and Zionist Narratives The fear system is used to perpetuate the Zionist narrative of persecution. Jewish holidays, like Passover, Purim, and Hanukkah, are used to reinforce the narrative of historical persecution. The state of Israel is presented as a replacement for God, creating a secular and dangerous version of the religious narrative. 01:27:14 😠 How Zionism Hijacks Emotional Responses Zionist narratives, fueled by historical persecution, can lead to the portrayal of Palestinians as the "new Nazis." This narrative hinders the tertiary system's capacity for critical thinking and limits the ability to see beyond the confines of the prescribed narrative. The army plays a crucial role in Zionist indoctrination, shaping young minds and making them susceptible to propaganda. 01:30:27 🔥 The Rage System and the "Baby in the Oven" Propaganda Violence, particularly sexual violence, is used to evoke rage and justify retaliatory action. The "baby in the oven" story is a fabricated atrocity designed to incite outrage and bypass critical thinking. The propaganda's effectiveness lies in its ability to generate a strong emotional response that overrides the truth. 01:36:48 🧠 Zionism's Origins and Ideological Roots The discussion explores the origins and nature of Zionism as a Christian ideology with roots tracing back to the 1500s. The speakers emphasize the distinction between Zionism and Judaism, highlighting the antithetical nature of the two ideologies. They delve into the influence of Evangelical Christians, particularly the “completely bonkers” portrayal of their beliefs regarding the End Times and the role of Jews in the prophecy of Armageddon. 01:40:59 🤕 Zionism's Manipulation of Grief and Trauma The conversation delves into the notion of a “grief culture” in Israel, where collective grief, particularly regarding the Holocaust, is used as a tool for manipulation and justification. The speakers argue that the perpetual state of grief prevents full healing and reconciliation, leading to a cycle of violence and resentment. Through a personal anecdote about the second Intifada, Saleh describes the feeling of justified anger experienced by Palestinian children, highlighting how the conflict impacts even young minds. 01:56:47 🤝 The Corrective Experience: A Path Towards Resolution The discussion emphasizes the need for a "corrective experience" as a means to combat the indoctrination fostered by Zionism. This involves creating opportunities for Palestinians and Israelis to interact, break down segregation, and dispel negative stereotypes through direct human connection. The speakers propose a “one-state solution” as a demographic solution aimed at integration and shared living, emphasizing that the resolution must address the underlying demographic conflict. 02:01:36 🤕 Addressing the Harmful Effects of Zionism This section explores how Zionism has negatively impacted the Palestinian people and society, discussing ways to heal and address the harms caused by this ideology. The discussion focuses on how intergroup dialogue and positive interactions can contribute to healing and overcoming the detrimental effects of Zionism. 02:03:11 🌳 Redefining Jewish Identity and Seeking a Safer World The speakers challenge the notion that a Jewish state is necessary for Jewish identity and existence, arguing that a thriving Jewish community can exist without a state. They advocate for a vision of a safe and inclusive world for all people, rejecting the need for a Jewish state and embracing a more inclusive identity, such as “Hebrew Palestinian.” 02:04:07 🌱 Integration and the Seeds of Change This section focuses on the potential for integration and cultural exchange between Palestinians and Jews, acknowledging that while it may be challenging in the current generation, future generations might find it easier. The speakers emphasize the importance of planting the seeds of change and fostering intergroup dialogue for a more peaceful and integrated future.
I want to propose to Elik. If he’ll have me I believe we can do great things together. Anybody that knows Elik, please give him a hug for me. Both these men are my spiritual husbands! ✨( I hope my comment is not taken down for fanaticism. I see these men’s values and I love them).
Yes, they got it when they got to the GRIEF. I went to what I call a “Zionist support group.” I was invited because of the healing arts I do in community. I was the only black person in the room. After the meeting I asked if anybody had a song we could sing. No one did so I asked if I could share a song. I sung a religious song in Hebrew. It touched the people, the Zionists. It was all I could do because I felt the weight of unresolved collective grief in Jewish society. 😢 And I heard the Victimhood. So I sang with all my heart. In their language. They need to deal with that and heal. Hate won’t heal.
Most of the hard core Palestinian nationalists Ive met are more insistent on differentiating themselves from other Arabs but its never talked about in terms of race or even origin, like George Abdullah who is Lebanese who fought for Palestine and Nayif Hawatimah who's Jordanian are more Palestinian than say Mansour Abbas or Muhammad Dahlan or any Palestinian serving in the IDF instantly gets his Palestinian card revoked. I used to hear it very often: "I'm not an Arab, I'm a Palestinian" there's deep sense of betrayal coming from the "Arab world". All nationalities are invented and non is older than 200 years and the Arab nationalities came very recent into existence so they're much less naturalized in the Arab world, they're still understood as political categories rather than something to do with ancestry and genetics, which is the case in Europe. One can point to the time of the Rashidun and the Abbasids which were very ethnocentric as Caliphates but in the early middle ages there was still no concept of an "Arab nation" there was only the Ummah which was the Islamic world and the Arab tribes were not at all united around Islam back then and there was no concept of common pan-Arab identity, it was still very much tribe based, some tribes were loyal to the prophet and many weren't some betrayed etc etc.
The real attachment in the Arab world and in the Mediterranean is to the land the village not the tribes. If you tell a Jew from Jerba in Tunisia that he is the same as a Jew in Tunis he will hate you the same is true for Arab / Berber from jerba they are above all Jerbian
I think antiZionst praxis depends on personality and capabilities. I’m a very private person so I don’t think I could do enough in Israel to counterbalance the complicity. But if you have the capacity to combat Zionism directly, from within, counterbalance is possible. The potential trap is the lie peace activists fell into - seeking peace without combating underlying ideology that is incompatible with justice.
These Jews are gems and Saleh is a ray of light and their conversion sparkles. Enlightenment, here.
The calm and dignity of Palestinian is something that humbles me
I love you two, you give me hope. As someone from the UK I struggle with feelings of complicity also, and I often feel helpless. I really appreciate your open honesty. Keep going!
The seeds are being sown!!!
Guys this is such an important thing you do, to sit and talk aknowledging all the layers are playing in this insanity..
Thanks to the three of you
Please don't feel discouraged since this is the path to build peace and justice.
Hugs from Uruguay ❤
This is healing thank you 🙏
I'm glad you said about the lack of empathy for the Israeli hostages...or at least its not for the hostages as such but the pleas and appeals from people like Standing Together who start to ask for peace with their tshirts emblazened with Bring Them Home...which seems to be centred on hostages,rather than the fact that at least...at least 50.000 Palestinians have been killed and more than 70.000 with life changing wounds,amputations etc,severe burns,shrapnel wounds.
It is hard to focus on the 136 or so hostages when we are seeing slaughted Palestinians everyday with dismembered bodies...won't go into latest gory details..unbelievable scenes.
If you can manage to somehow see a documentary made by the BBC about "both sides",that is the people at the NOva festival and then what the Palestinians in Gaza have been thorugh since Oct 7th.I found it very hard to feel much sympathy for those at the festival especially when one of the narratives at the beginning was talking about this so called "peace festival..full of unconditional love..."and some such BS...I mean seriously the festival was a rave in the desert in effect and its hard to understand the level of entitlement and hedonism that seems to be a feature of Israeli society and in particular these spiritual communities that exsit in amny parts of the west.Of course I have empathy when they are talking about running for their lives or or relatives who want their loved one back but do they even give a *hit about Palestinians !!! when they see babies brains being blown up and all they can think of is "their loved ones"...I know this goes to the heart of what you are talking about but its still hard to fathom the selective empathy.
Sorry to go on...these are issues and feelings I have myself grappled with in regards to many other things not just Israel/palestine,this ability we have as humans to ignore evidence and how our prejudices and emotional triggers can blind us to reality or being open to hearing evidence that would contradict or challenge our beliefs or preconceptions,our deepest held often unexamined beliefs.
We ALL do it to varying degrees...all of us,its just that when its on such a scale as we see in Israel,but all societies there is a "manufactured consensus"that totally bypasses peoples critical faculties or ability for any reflection or examination.
It happens in ALL societies.
Well said.
I felt exactly what Alon was talking about growing up in NYC. Here it is race and the lack of equality around how we look. Have either of you read James Baldwin? His writing was reminding me of this world of Zionism you have been teaching us all to be more aware of. You two are beautiful lights in this world that is getting so dark
I wish i could like this video thousand of times. It really is a beautiful video. Thank you for you courage and compassion to all three of you🙏
I"m just starting to listen and am loving the conversation, and of course the intro was banging! I had a small realization that I want to share: recently I listened to a series of lectures on the Crusades that occurred during the 11th and 12th centuries... and I realized, Israel and Zionism is in a way just another Crusade! Basically: an ideology that is born in Europe that lays a religious/identitarian claim to the Holy Land and uses this to justify enormous bloodshed and suffering. The Crusades held on to parts of the Levant for almost two hundred years... let's hope Zionism does not.
Wonderful, wonderful conversation. Thanks for being so vunerable. ❤
Checkout the article by Mary Turfah, ‘Running Amok’ for analysis of the psychological impact of Zionism.
Great start to an episode. ✔️
Great topic. ✔️
Great hosts. ✔️
Great guest. ✔️
LOVE YOU, GUYS! 🤘🏽🍉
A brilliant and necessary episode!
I was born in Australia and I say I'm Palestinian by choice
Alon Mizrahi is someone good to have on your show.
Khalil Sayegh too
The problem with Alon Mizrachi is that he thinks he's the only Jewish anti-zionist on earth and that he is the most radical person alive.
@@TalRachman what’s wrong with that?
Awesome beginning. !
I'm so happy to see this happen in real life please keep going your voice will be heard, sending love❤
I am a Gen X American of Jewish origin and i would love to speak with you sometime! I have an interesting perspective . I spent about 3 years of my life on israel and have spent the last 20 years unpacking the indoctrination of my youth ! There are less of us who have woken from the indoctrination and gaslighting. I had a fascinating but incomplete discussion with a boomer Jewish guy at the dog park yesterday ! I would love to chat and bring the experience of older Jewish Americans raised in the Zionist Cult who escaped but not without cost, my sister and her family now do not speak to me, long story.
You can write to me Elikharpaz@gmail.com
@@elik_harpaz email sent
@@elik_harpazI Love your channel I just found it today through another channel I was watching and a few clips of your content came up so I looked you up. Very brave what the two of you are doing especially because you're living in Israel, and you were surrounded by it. I pray every day that there can be peace and this war will stop. May God give you strength to continue what you are doing and speaking out.
By the way, I love the songs in the beginning of the program . 🌏✌️❤️🙏
Thanks you...your discussions reflect humanities true nature - when we are inclusive and cooperative...we are at our best.
Unchecked power regardless of idiology is ALWAYS bad.
There are people that are incapable of empathy, shame, humility, (short list) and they crave power their only emotion is vengance, masters of manipulation. And decent people are easily manipulated into supporting psychopaths into positions of power.
A setteler called into a show on youtube and had no information of the life of palastinians in tge westbank or gaza.
Do you know about tge history of zionist terror around the world going back over a hundred years.
✌💞 fellow earthlings.
PS
Apreciate your show. keep it up. Be safe.
I keep coming back to this video and finding new things. 1:20:00 & 1:31:21 very poignant.
what a remarkable conversation, beautiful to behold!
and as before, i find myself thinking we could have a very fertile talk about the role of geometry in the production and maintenance of colonial monoculture as it sets the rules on how to think. when Elik speaks of his experiences in the relationship with his zionist past and his family and the society around you, one word comes up again and again: "normal"
my view is that this actually points to a very relevant aspect of the whole situation, namely the geometry at play and the mistaken definition of "orthogonal" and "static" units as "normal". this is at the very root of this entire so called civilization and goes together with a fundamental disconnect that you keep bringing up, with regards to "separation" and "identity".
now with what i have learned about the operational mathematics and animate, experiential geometry of Synergetics, we could have a very deep look at all of that and a suggestion, perhaps, for a whole state solution, one where unity is plural and at minimum two, "up and down" are remembered to really be out and in, all boundaries are respected as the embracing lines of connections forming membranes binding the two sides of the whole, inside&outside, together. a place where we all recognize and tune into resonance with our shared kinside, our spherical identity with kinship Eairth...
i would really love to speak about all of this with you Alon and Elik, perhaps Saleh, too.
there's a bloody room around the elephant, one we need to acknowledge and recognize for the falsehood it is, and just like that we won't just be "thinking outside the box" but actually think and be without it, within and around spheres, instead🙏
salaam and a free 🍉
may all our kin from the rivers to the seas be free
I loved whst i heard as a dissident jazz/Doors vibe, very appropriate! Cornell west, like all great musician' before him, makes alot of music as a form of resistance, which can play a pivotal role in this revolution, eg Lowkeys work. What you guys are doing, this dialogue and speaking out is so important, don't sell yourselves short on this. It shows that there is another way, right there in the belly of the beast and rolemodels massive courage. After Palestine is free your presence there will be needed to heal those who want to stay and heal. If you choose to stay because you love palestine it's showing another way for other jews. But not only after, yiu are oart of the process of change. You are creating a new society. Alon being rejected at an early age because your individuality and intelligence sets you outside social norms does open a fantastic window to seeing outside the dominant ideology. Elek you probably wanted so much to belong as you are a very humane person, that you managed to avoid questions in favour if fitting in until the cost became to great and you were old enough to.kniw you could survivive.. Gabor mate talks about this as a battle between needing to belong and to be authentic and it leads to much mental and physical Illness but people who suffer have the opportunity to wake up to and belong to a greater humanity without having to sacrifice their authenticity. Some people shut down and harden their zombie egoism/ideological identity when faced with threat and suffering but others crack open to greater human udentity which embraces difference and is fundamentally more at peace. Ideologucally brainwashed/prograneed states are very reactive becayse stuck in flight/fight mode. An authentic human identity is not atuck in survival mide but can acknowledge mortality and manage fear without being utterly overwhelmed by many practices of connection to other people and life forms and the planet and our own bodies. We take solace abd find peace in being and appreciating being children of the universe. I'd love to talk to you, privately or not. Another great conversation, thankyou, they heal us all by helping us understand the contradictions we all live with.
Great talk guys thanks
Awesome episode and very interesting
Great guys!
Thank you again.. amazing
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This is my struggle, I don't want to move as hard as it gets are everything is getting more scary and expensive and having employment is always always under question mark, the ability to sustain is always under a question mark if you come from this struggle, the struggle is to officially get to the whole of Palestine to be recognized as Palestine and israel to be relegated to the past tense. The status quo is impossible, most of those who leave are not doing so out of questioning Zionism but purely out of comfort bc nothing is comfortable here nothing that can be less comfortable in say Germany or Canada. In many ways leaving is a privilege and those are the majority of those who leave (this includes Palestinians for very understandable reasons bc the status quo is harsher on them, including the privileged ones.)
From my personal perspective I already live in Palestine that's just under occupation, most of the apartments in my building are owned by Palestinians, I hear Arabic spoken every day either from my window or when I walk down the street, getting in and out of the building. Its not a question of cultural shift even at all, its a question of being officially occupied by the Zionist regime.
I think we are all hear because we believe that a better future is possible. For a start I think Israeli must stop seing themselves as white and accept that they are SEMITE closer to the Arab world than to Europe. Like what’s the point to moving back the the. Middle East if you want to be WHITE
critique on practical wisdom i believe is the meaning of bikoret al tvuna ma asit. YOU GUYS ROCK DON'T STOP -Ben
You guys will eventually become history. Like the movement called the white rose in Germany against the Nazis.
You talk about other areas of control and given the rise of the right in Europe it would interesting to look at how the emotional systems are used by the far right so effectively and what can the left and/or minority groups do to counter this growing normalisation of Islamophobia.
I love you guys! Count me in your tribe ⭕️❣️
This conversation made me think of the work of Wilhelm Reich and especially his book The Mass Psychology of Fascism.
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John Lennon??? you are back???
This comment 😆🤣 love it
In my experience freely working together - for example building a school or teding to veggie garden ( not for salary profit) is the best way to meet and learn. Thank u for beautiful work and presence!
Please check out the article by Mary Turfah, called 'Running Amok'. She did an analysis of psychology behind zionism. Reach out to her. She'd be a great guest.
Social medicine arises at the level of the wounds inflicted.....beyond the imagination of the perpetrators. Even this must resist the predictable hijack attempts: Yes, even this.
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🎯 Key points for quick navigation:
00:01 🎤 Song about the conflict in Palestine
This clip opens with a song that expresses the narrator's frustration and pain about the violence in Palestine.
The song speaks from the perspective of a child born into the conflict and questioning why it's necessary.
The song also highlights the feeling of being trapped in a situation with no escape.
03:30 🎙 Introduction to the Podcast and Guests
This section introduces the Yalla podcast and its hosts, Elik and Alon.
It also introduces the guest speaker for this episode, Saleh, a Palestinian doctor living in Sweden.
Saleh is presented as an expert in personality psychology and its relation to the human brain.
05:21 🎧 The Yalla Podcast and its Mission
This section explains the aim behind the Yalla podcast and its focus on anti-Zionism.
The hosts, Elik and Alon, are Israeli Jews who identify as anti-Zionists and advocate for the liberation of Palestine.
The podcast is designed to provide a platform for discussion and open-minded dialogue with individuals who share their vision of a free Palestine.
07:10 😨 Elik's personal struggle and feeling of complicity
This section delves into Elik's personal struggle with living in Israel while being an anti-Zionist.
Elik expresses feelings of guilt for being complicit in the ongoing occupation and genocide, even while actively resisting Zionism.
Elik also mentions the feeling of being a traitor to his family and society, often feeling ostracized for his beliefs.
09:37 🧠 Exploring the difference between ethics and morality
This section introduces the concepts of ethics and morality and their relationship to Elik's internal conflict.
Saleh explains the difference between ethics, which are based on fixed principles and ideals, and morality, which comes from a deeper, more intuitive place.
Saleh argues that morality is dynamic and fluid, while ethics are often rigid and can lead to oppressive behavior, even while acting under the guise of a higher principle.
13:18 📚 Examining Kant's Critique of Practical Reason
This section focuses on Kant's Critique of Practical Reason and its application to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The group, comprised of Elik, Alon, and Saleh, read and analyze passages from the text, attempting to find solutions to the conflict.
They highlight Kant's assertion that ethical rules cannot be based on personal tribal affiliations, suggesting that the concept of prioritizing one's own "tribe" is inherently unethical.
15:51 🧭 Navigating Ethics and Morality in Action
This section revisits Elik's internal conflict and how morality plays a role in his actions.
The conversation emphasizes that morality is not simply a theoretical concept, but rather a practical tool for guiding one's actions.
It also acknowledges that even in moments of fear, individuals may not follow their moral compass, highlighting the complexities of human behavior.
16:48 🤝 The Disconnect Between Israeli and Palestinian Ethics
This section delves into the fundamental disconnect between Israeli and Palestinian ethics, highlighting the difference in their respective ideals.
It reveals how Israeli society often dismisses or ignores differing perspectives, highlighting the need for more nuanced dialogue.
It also challenges the notion of a shared ethical framework, emphasizing the need to consider the distinct realities and experiences of both sides.
17:43 🗺 Elik's Perspective on Residing in Palestine versus Israel
This section introduces Elik's controversial idea of "moving" from Israel to Palestine, not geographically, but conceptually.
Elik believes that aligning oneself with Palestine through values, connections, and actions is a crucial step in opposing the Israeli occupation.
This idea challenges the traditional notion of geographical boundaries and emphasizes the importance of actively choosing which community one aligns with.
19:04 🧭 Alon's Journey to Identifying as Palestinian
This section details Alon's personal journey and his identification with the Palestinian identity.
Alon reflects on the positive reactions he received from Palestinians when he openly declared his Palestinian identification.
This conversation challenges the conventional view of identity politics and opens up a broader dialogue about the complexities of individual identification.
20:30 🧬 The Historical Nature of Palestinian Identity
This section explores the historical nuance of the Palestinian identity, explaining how it wasn't always an ethnic marker.
The conversation highlights how Palestinian identity historically encompassed individuals of different religions and ethnicities who shared the land and culture.
The conversation also asserts that Palestinian identity is not solely based on religious or ethnic lines, but rather on a shared connection to the land and its history.
21:34 🚫 Demystifying the Pro-Palestinian Movement
This section aims to dispel common misconceptions about the pro-Palestinian movement.
Saleh addresses the Zionist narrative of the pro-Palestinian movement as fanatical or extremist, emphasizing that the movement is not about expelling Jewish people or promoting religious fundamentalism.
Saleh highlights the Palestinian desire for liberation and self-determination, rejecting the Zionist narrative that portrays the movement as violent or hostile.
22:17 🕊 The Pro-Palestinian Movement's Core Values
This section clarifies the fundamental values of the pro-Palestinian movement.
It reiterates that Palestinians primarily seek peaceful coexistence and self-determination, rejecting the notion of harming or expelling Jewish people.
It emphasizes the desire for a free and just Palestine, where all individuals can live in peace and equality.
23:57 🧠 Examining the Zionist Response to Palestinian Dialogue
This section analyzes the typical Zionist response to discussions about Palestinian rights and self-determination.
It suggests that Zionist ideology often automatically dismisses any critique or alternative perspective, labeling it as false, ignorant, or malicious.
It highlights the need to challenge this rigid mindset and engage in genuine dialogue to foster understanding and promote peace.
25:35 🎙 Saleh Expresses Appreciation for the Podcast
Saleh shares his positive experience with the podcast, particularly the One State Solution episode, which resonated deeply with him.
It introduced him to a new perspective on Israeli society and provided him with a sense of community and understanding.
29:45 🧠 Exploring the Psychological and Societal Dynamics of Zionism
Saleh reveals his fascination with the psychological mechanisms underlying Zionist ideology, specifically how an entire society can perpetrate crimes without acknowledging them.
This leads to a discussion about the normalization of violence and oppression, and how individuals within the system grapple with their own complicity.
36:14 🧬 Saleh Introduces Affective Neuroscience
Saleh explains how he delves into the intricate connection between emotions and the brain. He shares how narratives effectively manipulate our emotional systems, influencing our beliefs and behavior.
He then introduces the concept of seven primary emotional systems in the brain, shared by all mammals, which influence our instinctive responses and survival mechanisms.
44:04 🕹 The Brain as a Multi-Layered System
Saleh highlights the brain's multi-layered structure, which includes the primary process level for instincts, emotions, and reflexes, the secondary process level for basic learning, and the tertiary process level for higher-level thought, planning, and morality.
He emphasizes that these layers are interconnected and influence each other, and how external factors like ideologies can interfere with this harmonious flow.
An overactivation of the primary and secondary levels, potentially caused by indoctrination, can override higher-level thinking, leading to irrational, emotional responses.
50:21 🧠 The Hijacking of Emotions
In this section, the speakers discuss how emotions can be manipulated by ideologies, leading to a state of indoctrination.
This indoctrination can lead individuals to act against their own beliefs and values, as they become consumed by a specific narrative.
The speakers illustrate this concept by drawing parallels between the Nazi regime and the current state of affairs in Israel, suggesting that fear and trauma can be exploited for political gain.
58:06 ⚖ The Deformed Tertiary System & Theory of Mind
The discussion delves into the concept of theory of mind, a cognitive ability that allows individuals to understand the perspectives and thoughts of others.
The lack of theory of mind in those who are indoctrinated leads to a breakdown in rational discourse, as they are unable to see the contradictions in their own beliefs.
This phenomenon is illustrated with the example of a politician who quotes Hitler's sentiments without recognizing the absurdity and moral implications of his actions.
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01:01:18 🗣 The Difficulties of Rational Dialogue
The speakers explore the challenges in having constructive discussions with individuals deeply indoctrinated by ideologies.
The inability to utilize higher-level cognitive processes, particularly theory of mind, hinders meaningful dialogue, as the indoctrinated individuals are unable to engage in rational debate.
This phenomenon is likened to dealing with religious fundamentalists or individuals in a "werewolf state", where their emotional responses take over, preventing them from logically processing arguments.
01:03:03 🧬 The Mechanisms of Ideological Indoctrination
This section delves into the universality of ideological indoctrination, emphasizing that it transcends specific ideologies like Zionism.
The speakers explore the potential for various ideologies and cults to employ similar mechanisms to control individual minds, ultimately leading to a suppression of critical thinking.
The dangers of these mechanisms are highlighted by drawing parallels with fascism, cults, and "mind viruses", emphasizing their potential to create oppressive systems.
01:06:22 🧭 Identifying True Emotions
The speakers grapple with the complex question of distinguishing between genuine emotions and those imposed by external ideologies.
The challenge lies in recognizing whether our emotional responses are rooted in our own internal reality or are the result of external influences.
The conversation reflects the internal struggle individuals might face within a society saturated with propaganda and various ideologies.
01:08:17 🕵The Importance of Seeking Truth
This section emphasizes the necessity of questioning our own motivations and desires, particularly in relation to consuming information and navigating complex societal issues.
The conversation highlights the tendency to rationalize and seek explanations that align with our existing biases rather than actively pursuing truth.
The speakers assert that true curiosity and a genuine desire for understanding are essential for disentangling ourselves from the clutches of ideologies and propaganda.
01:11:41 🧩Liberal Indoctrination and the Need for Empathy
The conversation moves towards examining the mechanisms of liberal indoctrination, analyzing its motivations and potential pitfalls.
The speakers suggest that the desire to be perceived as "good people" can drive liberal ideology and potentially obscure a more nuanced understanding of complex issues.
The need for empathy and understanding is emphasized, urging individuals to examine the motivations and emotional needs that drive different ideologies.
01:13:42 🧠 Indoctrination and Emotional Systems
Indoctrination hijacks primary emotional systems, which in turn affect the tertiary system, leading to a distorted view of empathy and compassion.
The example of a therapist's sudden shift to Zionism illustrates how the "care system" can be manipulated to justify harmful actions.
01:18:18 🎭 Zionism and the Manipulation of Good Intentions
Zionists often present themselves as good people motivated by a desire to protect their families and children, but their ideology justifies harmful actions.
The "care system" can be hijacked to promote harmful ideas by focusing on one's own children over others, creating a narrow and biased sense of empathy.
01:21:18 🛡 The Fear System and Zionist Narratives
The fear system is used to perpetuate the Zionist narrative of persecution.
Jewish holidays, like Passover, Purim, and Hanukkah, are used to reinforce the narrative of historical persecution.
The state of Israel is presented as a replacement for God, creating a secular and dangerous version of the religious narrative.
01:27:14 😠 How Zionism Hijacks Emotional Responses
Zionist narratives, fueled by historical persecution, can lead to the portrayal of Palestinians as the "new Nazis."
This narrative hinders the tertiary system's capacity for critical thinking and limits the ability to see beyond the confines of the prescribed narrative.
The army plays a crucial role in Zionist indoctrination, shaping young minds and making them susceptible to propaganda.
01:30:27 🔥 The Rage System and the "Baby in the Oven" Propaganda
Violence, particularly sexual violence, is used to evoke rage and justify retaliatory action.
The "baby in the oven" story is a fabricated atrocity designed to incite outrage and bypass critical thinking.
The propaganda's effectiveness lies in its ability to generate a strong emotional response that overrides the truth.
01:36:48 🧠 Zionism's Origins and Ideological Roots
The discussion explores the origins and nature of Zionism as a Christian ideology with roots tracing back to the 1500s.
The speakers emphasize the distinction between Zionism and Judaism, highlighting the antithetical nature of the two ideologies.
They delve into the influence of Evangelical Christians, particularly the “completely bonkers” portrayal of their beliefs regarding the End Times and the role of Jews in the prophecy of Armageddon.
01:40:59 🤕 Zionism's Manipulation of Grief and Trauma
The conversation delves into the notion of a “grief culture” in Israel, where collective grief, particularly regarding the Holocaust, is used as a tool for manipulation and justification.
The speakers argue that the perpetual state of grief prevents full healing and reconciliation, leading to a cycle of violence and resentment.
Through a personal anecdote about the second Intifada, Saleh describes the feeling of justified anger experienced by Palestinian children, highlighting how the conflict impacts even young minds.
01:56:47 🤝 The Corrective Experience: A Path Towards Resolution
The discussion emphasizes the need for a "corrective experience" as a means to combat the indoctrination fostered by Zionism.
This involves creating opportunities for Palestinians and Israelis to interact, break down segregation, and dispel negative stereotypes through direct human connection.
The speakers propose a “one-state solution” as a demographic solution aimed at integration and shared living, emphasizing that the resolution must address the underlying demographic conflict.
02:01:36 🤕 Addressing the Harmful Effects of Zionism
This section explores how Zionism has negatively impacted the Palestinian people and society, discussing ways to heal and address the harms caused by this ideology.
The discussion focuses on how intergroup dialogue and positive interactions can contribute to healing and overcoming the detrimental effects of Zionism.
02:03:11 🌳 Redefining Jewish Identity and Seeking a Safer World
The speakers challenge the notion that a Jewish state is necessary for Jewish identity and existence, arguing that a thriving Jewish community can exist without a state.
They advocate for a vision of a safe and inclusive world for all people, rejecting the need for a Jewish state and embracing a more inclusive identity, such as “Hebrew Palestinian.”
02:04:07 🌱 Integration and the Seeds of Change
This section focuses on the potential for integration and cultural exchange between Palestinians and Jews, acknowledging that while it may be challenging in the current generation, future generations might find it easier.
The speakers emphasize the importance of planting the seeds of change and fostering intergroup dialogue for a more peaceful and integrated future.
That's amazing thankyou!!
I want to propose to Elik. If he’ll have me I believe we can do great things together. Anybody that knows Elik, please give him a hug for me. Both these men are my spiritual husbands! ✨( I hope my comment is not taken down for fanaticism. I see these men’s values and I love them).
Pre-Traumatic-Stress-Disorder. Look up 'The Wandering Who' by Atzmon
1:33:52 the baby in oven : This happened to Palestinian baby by Israeli occupation. Every accusation is an admission 😢
Yes, they got it when they got to the GRIEF. I went to what I call a “Zionist support group.” I was invited because of the healing arts I do in community. I was the only black person in the room. After the meeting I asked if anybody had a song we could sing. No one did so I asked if I could share a song. I sung a religious song in Hebrew. It touched the people, the Zionists. It was all I could do because I felt the weight of unresolved collective grief in Jewish society. 😢 And I heard the Victimhood. So I sang with all my heart. In their language. They need to deal with that and heal. Hate won’t heal.
Haven't seen new video for ages? Hope you guys okay? ❤
Have u met up with mioz ion. Go join him I see hope.
Most of the hard core Palestinian nationalists Ive met are more insistent on differentiating themselves from other Arabs but its never talked about in terms of race or even origin, like George Abdullah who is Lebanese who fought for Palestine and Nayif Hawatimah who's Jordanian are more Palestinian than say Mansour Abbas or Muhammad Dahlan or any Palestinian serving in the IDF instantly gets his Palestinian card revoked. I used to hear it very often: "I'm not an Arab, I'm a Palestinian" there's deep sense of betrayal coming from the "Arab world".
All nationalities are invented and non is older than 200 years and the Arab nationalities came very recent into existence so they're much less naturalized in the Arab world, they're still understood as political categories rather than something to do with ancestry and genetics, which is the case in Europe.
One can point to the time of the Rashidun and the Abbasids which were very ethnocentric as Caliphates but in the early middle ages there was still no concept of an "Arab nation" there was only the Ummah which was the Islamic world and the Arab tribes were not at all united around Islam back then and there was no concept of common pan-Arab identity, it was still very much tribe based, some tribes were loyal to the prophet and many weren't some betrayed etc etc.
The real attachment in the Arab world and in the Mediterranean is to the land the village not the tribes. If you tell a Jew from Jerba in Tunisia that he is the same as a Jew in Tunis he will hate you the same is true for Arab / Berber from jerba they are above all Jerbian
great episode, particularly the last 6 minutes. any way to contact or message you guys?
I think antiZionst praxis depends on personality and capabilities. I’m a very private person so I don’t think I could do enough in Israel to counterbalance the complicity. But if you have the capacity to combat Zionism directly, from within, counterbalance is possible. The potential trap is the lie peace activists fell into - seeking peace without combating underlying ideology that is incompatible with justice.
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