Morning Jolt #37 - Leica Fires a Shot at Sony!
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- čas přidán 12. 09. 2024
- Morning Jolt #37 - Leica Fires a Shot at Sony!
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Don't ever stop making these videos....funny, interesting, and informative.
At least with Sony you can begin with APSC and move up to full frame if you choose and not have to start all over.
Canon M mount has no where to go, Nikon Z mount has no where to start and Leica is just prohibitively expensive.
Very few photographers would have a 5D4 or D850 as their first camera. They worked their way up through lesser APSC bodies.
Shane Doyle is a question of compromising lens quality.
Sony have a much longer history than you give them credit for. Konica-Minolta history goes back to at least the 1920s
please school these dummies who dont know,yet still give out their stupid misinformation...
what an interesting vide!
really insightful
thanks for sharing this with us!
loved watching this!
I am using a lot of Vintage glass and most of them are 42mm diameter and they have a perfect projection on the sensor!!!
As long as some glass can be 1.4 or 1.8 the Sony e mount stresses compactness. I’d rather have a light camera and lenses than a .95 lens. I don’t think that the e mount was an oversight but Sony stressing lighter gear as an important differentiating factor in the world of cameras.
Mike H. I understand that some want super fast glass. But they should find another system not ruin Sony’s lead in the mirrorless market with another Sony mount. It would put Sony where everyone else is.
Your banana argument is priceless 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Leica digital and Leica film are two different things ;-) Again, I enjoy your coffee !
btw, sony negletcs APS-C the least due to the fact they have a uniform mount. Nikon, Canon, Leica, Panasonic, none of them offer a crop Path with the same mount.
Wooow so right. Please continue to give us such type of content, really refreshing from those other channel praising a camera just because it’s a Canon, Leica, PhaseOne or Hasselblad!
All this mount size, throat size event sensor size doesn’t matter if you don’t know the basic of lighting, composition and story telling.
All that nerdy 🤓 discussion doesn’t affect that much the overall image quality, or even help tell a better story. Just look for or search for iconic pictures, and you’ll see most of them if not all are not that sharp, because it’s all about the story not the tools.
Nowadays as so many photographers or filmmakers sucks at story telling they prefer focus on such subject that help.
The technology is evolving and will keep evolved faster and faster, but lighting, composition and story telling will remain key no matter you’re using your phone, DSLR, mirrorless, crop, full frame, medium format or CG, stop motion, etc... it really doesn’t matter. Nobody when come out a cinema theatre are saying the movie sucks because wasn’t shoot on a ARRI ALEXA LT or Sony Venice! What people will comment and judge is the story, the editing, the actors performances, the DP, etc... but no one in the theatre really care on which camera, lighting brand, NLE that was used for the editing or color correction suite that was used, right?
Absolutely right. Who cares if it works! If I had a car that had slightly smaller wheels and it still won the race would I be bothered about the wheel size?
That’s only if the competition stays the same. But now Canon & Nikon have a larger mount. Which translates to much better lenses.
Technically, almost all the major companies that have full frame cameras are neglecting APS-C. The development for APS-C lenses has mostly stopped for Nikon, Canon, and Sony with the exception of consumer level zooms.
Well one could argue sony had good reasons to focus on FF lenses and even cameras for a while we might think they can do anything in parallel but they can't and looking back the last 2 / 3 years that focus has worked out for them. For aps-c the question now has to be 'proven' forward ..
They definitely had a good reason. They had to concentrate on making FE glass before Canon and Nikon started getting into the FF mirrorless market.
wrong.............>>.kurtmunger.com/sony_lens_chartid223.html
I think there is some risk for Sony if the development of IBIS demands a wider image cycle to get more room for the sensor.
I'm not sure how you made it through this video without laughing even more. Hilarious.
I hate to use an authority argument, but sony has way more variety and lenses than leica. There's theory and practice. Sony has a complete lens lineup. Sony bought Minolta prior to the E mount, they knew what they were doing, FF was in mind from the start.
Leica is not a camera competitor to anyone! They dont make camera systems they make optical and electronic accessories for rich wankers. They compete with gucci and Ferrari and tiffany's, not with sony or canon or fuji or nikon
Try walking into one of their stores, i did only a month ago and was completely ignored while all the staff were busy massaging the wallet out of a guy who obviously looked loaded and gullible. I actually went in to check out their photo wall and wasnt buying but they could've at least used a bit of common courtesy instead of giving me the cold shoulder.
I have a Leica M240 as my go to camera. While the image quality I get with Leica glass is definitely superior to any other camera I’ve tried (a73, a7r3, 5d IV, etc) it’s also not $7000 superior. The main reason I shoot Leica M is because no other camera company produces a digital rangefinder. (And no, the x-pro2 is not a real rangefinder)
maybe Leica is starting to see a decline in sales and desperate to make this L-mount alliance to work?
I recently switched back to Sony for the A73. If you take a look inside the sensor of the camera, it looks like the corners of the mount are blocking the very edges of the sensor. You don’t see this in your images, so I believe they have either corrected this with lens design or just by brightening it electronically. But I don’t see how they can get past it blocking light in some areas without doing some type of voodoo. Either way, I like my camera and it does what I need it to do. Besides, the corners aren’t what we usually want people to look at in our photos!
Whoop whoop
Dude right on 🤘🤘
well said...
I put G master glass on my a6300 and it’s awesome. If I need a better camera I just rent it for the event. Oh and Leica is just over priced a6000’s.
Yeah.. right!
Not going to go through the comments, I am beyond sick of hearing about diameter size and seeing the stupid/ignorant shit people have to say about it. Just want to say you are spot on about Leica being the Rolls Royce of the camera world. They really can't do anything less expensive without everyone that bought in to the more expensive systems feeling gypped. I would think that most that can afford it probably don't know enough about photography to even use it well enough to get that marginally better IQ. They could have bought a 2 generation old camera with a decent prime and done just as well. More money than sense, damn right.
Maybe they could make an offshoot camera under a different brand name, one that is the same with the same lenses, only renamed and for a lower price. But they won't. They make more profit from the sale of one camera than Sony makes from the sale of 10 A7III cameras.
You know what's the problem? Sony lenses are big, heavy, long and not very fast. All because of the small diameter of the mount.
Great video. Worth watching content.
Sony is the most Genius, Sony FE based on E (APSC) make it the most Flexible Mount in the market.
Canon is the most stupid, R Mount cant accept M Lenses. WTF
Also, I agree with you Leica is Jealous Bitch..... Im living in Germany and dont care about that Overpriced Product *lol*
Wooop woop
It could be argued that " in the long term", the likes of Leica, Nikon and Canon having larger diameter mounts will prove to be an advantage. By advantage I mean in terms of wider aperture zooms and primes and wide angle lenses that require less correction. The caveat to all this however is the words " in the long term". You see, the way things look right now neither Leica, Canon or Nikon may even have a long term! By the time they release lenses that lever this advantage Sony might already have reached the point of absolute market leader. OK, so it's unlikely this will happen in reality, but don't forget, Beta was vastly technically superior to VHS and we all know ( Sony especially ) how that turned out 😋
Sony G master glass is expensive
Nowhere near the expensiveness of Leica glass!!! Oh and they are so much more versatile with all their functions! Loving my 24-70 2.8 GM That I just got for 1500$ barely used!
I love my GM glasss but sony also has some sweet G glass that people should not ignore and the zony stuff.
Sure I just had to get that one GM for my work! All my other glass is manual old school vintage or new Samyang manual glass that I really love and in some cases is far better than anything out there! Another amazing zoom lens is the 24-105 f4 for half the money and you can use it in any situation! Also recently i tested the Tamron 28-75 f2.8 and for the price, formfactor and performance it's on another lvl!!!
I am waiting for Tamron to make a 70-200 for Sony, TBH. I will never buy one at $2,500. Rent maybe, but not buy.
Good morning
Its bs anyway sony had FF video camera released 2 years after intro of e-mount so lets assume like Leica they already planned ahead the fact now all claim they didn't is just well guessing at best since sony never commented on it. But if you take a 2 year production cycle into account seems fair to assume they did. Now was it the best call? A good compromise who knows... I do know (since i did the math the Z-Mount for example uses about 20cm3 extra room inside the camera (about 5 sugar cubes) compared to the e-mount ...... now lets ponder what nikon claims it could not fit in the cameras .. 5 sugar cubes of space vs say a second card reader ? ... its all a compromise and now they all hope to shame sony into dropping the e-mount the only one now with solid lens line up for FF that work for aps-c, ff, video-pro and movie-pro...
I think you have it spot on with the balance of compromises.
I know for a fact that a lot of people love the small size of the Rokinon AF 35/2,8 lens, and it's possible for it to be that small because the mount itself is small.
if Leica thinks that less than 3mm makes such a big difference then maybe Panasonic and Sigma should have partnered with Nikon
One correction to be made, at 7:57, you say the canon EF mount is 46.1mm. It is not, the EF mount diameter is 54mm, which is the same as the RF mount.
I quoted the EF-M diameter.
Yes sir, the tabled you showed is indeed correct, cheers!
If I wanted specifically a 24mp FF camera (not more or less) with just one 50mm lens and that's it, and money was not an issue, I'd get the M10 with their 50 Sumicron APO lens. There's nothing 24mp/50mm on the market that beats this particular combo, nothing, not even close. Having said that, I don't think Leica's comment on the E mount is a "competitive" comment. Leica owners also own Sony or Nikon or Canon etc. Photographers who argue much online, are only those who can't afford a second and a third system.
SOOC why do you like Leica? I can certainly understand the aesthetics and history that makes people enjoy the experience, do you think there is a big difference in the results you get with a Leica camera? I have never used one, but I have held one and see the attraction, not for me but I get it.
From personal use, the only thing I noticed was the color separation (better wb response... though this issue was resolved in the D850, still not resolved in Fuji), though it was not a problem in most cases. But I've seen professionally taken pics (still life) with *the M10 and the 50 APO* and there's an *immediately noticeable* difference in how "true to life" these pics were, compared to others. The only combo I could use to get close at the time, was the D810 with the old Zeiss 85 and it's embossed rendering, but in this case I'd have to fight serious color aberrations, since I would have to shoot wide open with a lens not designed for that. Any other lens I had in mind was "fake look" by comparison, and that includes even the Otus line. But I'm referring *ONLY* to this combo - the M10 with the 50 APO. For anything else, I'd have to chose something else from the market.
PS. At some point one gets tired of the megapixel wars etc and wants photographs that spark emotions by being as true to life as possible. The overall rendering helps a lot in this, and their 50 APO combines all the good old rendering with all modern performance aspects. Having said that, the last thing that I want now is to carry around a second camera system - it's a pain in the ass and impracticable. Every new purchase of even a strap is a pain in the ass. Plus I would have to re-learn all the attributes of complex lenses with specific character and behavior (I've been studying the Otus 55 for 2 months now, and how to handle its extremely abrupt changes in DoF even by the slightest move of the focusing ring), and over time that's overwhelming. It's like trying to master Microsoft/Apple/Unix all at the same time. For what I do the Leica is not enough, and I can't carry a separate camera/lens just for a couple of shots. But if God issued an order saying "from now on, you are only allowed 24mp with a 50mm lens", I'd definitely chose the M10/50 APO combo.
PS2. I'm talking pics taken by actual pros, not the general flickr bs. You can find some at Lloyd Chamber's site, but it's subscription only. The rest only by pros who are not much in the sharing/social media hobby.
Interestingly, the Leica M mount is 44mm - I suppose that wasn't designed for FF, either.
Also, the Nikon F mount and the Pentax K mount come in at 44mm, whilst the Sony E is 46.1mm. So, saying the Sony E isn't designed for FF is total horse shit.
Leica's throat diameter is just 2mm wider than Sony but flange distance is the same. The 2mm diameter will not offer leaps and bounds of advantages in lens design. Minolta/Sony have never strived for F0.95 or F1.2. Bigger glass can sometimes mean slower focusing or no autofocusing for that matter. Bokeh snobs gloat at having such a lens but real world use don't justify their high prices or technical feat.
I'll take my Sony E-mount and the money in my pocket over an over priced, over hyped Leica any day.
This is all because Panasonic (L mount alliance) is entering Full Frame and they want some piece of the market share.
Lol so true 😂
Leica's quality is unmatched. BUT , their specs are lacking , even Leica fans will say pay more to get less. That said , all the quality considered , they are still massively overpriced. think the best happy medium is Fujifilm . Quality , specs all while having more then competitive pricing. Sony is right there. But their quality is questionable , specs are unbeatable and pricing good. But their top lenses are definitely expensive. The ONLY and I mean ONLY thing that may be holding back Fujifilm as a competitor in it all is being cropped sensor. In my mind that's a positive because they are still competing with the full frames and doing it well. Just goes to show once again how incredible they are.
The technical problem is because the E mount limits design of optics. For example, the new Canon 28-70 f2 is really hard to do on the E mount.
Don’t get me wrong, I love my Sony A7iii, but Sony glass is really expensive!
Nothing is as overpriced than Leica, but, Sony GM lenses are very expensive compared to Canon or Nikon similar lenses... so... the engineering cost is going to the consumer for sure :(
"You obviously don't understand optical design." ... what a rude statement, you don't even know me.
I agree with the rest of your post (basically after you get civilized). And I am not saying that I am an "optical design engineer", but, it is a fact that a bigger diameter and shorter flange just gives optical design "more choices". I am not saying it is impossible to do anything with the E-mount, I am just saying that it is "harder" since the options are "more constraint".
Anyway, obviously that Leica is using that "argument" in their advantage to "fight" for their new system, and obviously that is more a "theoretical marketing" than a "practical limitation". But, Sony GM lenses are more expensive (fact). Don't know why, and I wish they weren't... :(
Funny how the E-Mount seems to be able to use lenses with much bigger mounts and still retain the same IQ as if they was on there native mounts. With Sony haters logic this could never work. Leica lenses look so nice on my $2k Sony body and Leica, Canon, Nikon, and all other Full Frame lens manufacturer that makes bodies also hate that!!!
Hahaha 16 people.
Great video..Now I guess those who do not like facts better duck....
Leica,you make a nice product,yet it is overpriced.It's like a Lexus for $500k,or a Camry for $250k..NO....You have some great glass and that's overpriced too,unless you can prove to us,it costs you at least $5000 to make the glass you sell for $7000.Until then,shut up and be thankful someone is buying your products at all.Sony does not give a flying crap about you,Leica,because you are not in the same conversation when it comes to making MONEY.Sony is a consumer electronics company,with a professional VIDEO/film division.Sony used the make MiniDiscs,clock radios,Walkmans,Stereo gear,TVs,and other toys we love.Sony bought Minolta,started getting more serious about cameras,and today,they are NUMBER ONE,meaning they passed ALL of the so-called icons of the camera world,and Leica,you're not even in the top 5,so it's best you sit your high priced,over zealous,self proclaiming asses down.
Canon is number two,and if you're an adult and still calling people names like 'fanboys',you're a total fake ass punk,because you know good and well you would never step to another man's face in a camera store and call him names based on what he buys to shoot with.It's a person's right to buy what they want with their money ,and no one else's damn business.Would i buy a Leica?If I had ALL my cameras i NEED and the glass already,and had another $30-50k to invest,i might.Considering the specs are not current and the body of a Leica($500?), a set of three lenses($25k?),I dont know if i would make that investment.I probably would rather go Medium format for that amount of money,to get noticeably superior image quality.See,That's called envy and stupid,like if you're on a track team,rich,but the slowest,so to compensate,you call the fastest runners poor and broke.
Point is,no one cares about a LOSER,especially one who needs to be quiet and make some products more of us can afford,or at least prove their products are superior first,then start yapping.Oh and that stuff about Sony not having support and glass for APS-C is total trash and a lie.People should really take a look at reality,do some reading,ask the right questions,and get some FACTS,before making themselves look foolish,with their misinformation.Leica,you make good stuff but go back into the corner and sit down,because no one is paying you much attention...
#ree.ree #lica.on.that.short.bus
Most lens designers only have to spend more time and money to come up with proper lenses. I think if it were a little wider it would only mean the lenses available would have been released much more sooner and probably dominate the market quicker.
Sony is not a camera company
preach brother!
Not to be a contrarian, but the extra costs to the consumer are actually in Sony glass. One could argue that they have artificially deflated the costs of their camera bodies to help offset the price of their native G master lenses. Sony make excellent electronic components but the other aspect of this whole thing is that to continue using the E mount they are actually continuing go against their own stated design philosophy in having pitched mirrorless as "smaller and lighter," while offering lenses which make their system awkwardly unbalanced. You're right about Leica not exactly being in a position to be a self righteous blowhard, but really who is?
Randy Whitt have you actually used Sony glass? They’re usually the lightest and smallest of all the competition look at their new 24 1.4 i wouldn’t call that imbalanced.
@@MrLivesformusic I have. I know several Sony shooters. I find the weight of the G master lenses *that I've tried* heavy and cumbersome. Particularly the 24-70 f 2.8
Maybe it's possible that if Sony could've worked around this oversight, Nikon can work around the Z mount to create a medium format camera???
Whoop whoop!
Woot woot
What are people saying about no APS-C Sony glass???duhhhhhhhhhhhh?>>>>>>>>>>>kurtmunger.com/sony_lens_chartid223.html
Whoop whoop!