The Gen 2 Tesla 4680 Battery Cell Is Here!
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- čas přidán 1. 07. 2024
- The Gen 2 Tesla 4680 Battery Cell Is Here!
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Good channel. 👍
11¹11111111😁
Meh. Lemmie know when the Cyber Truck is available and can tow an RV for 500 miles without recharging.
Problem:
The 4680 is so named because of its dimensions. A smaller battery isn't really a 4680 anymore.
Battery news is always so slow and minimal, but there's so much juicy detail here, down to the exact problems that were occurring at the factory. All of it is appreciated, ty!
I wonder why they don't just roll this tab material with tabs into a few big blocks rather than many cylinders
I work in this department can’t give any info but production has ramped way up with less problems and getting better every day
The Semi. Tesla says they’ll be making deliveries this year. This, in my opinion, is where Tesla has prioritized the 4680.
Yes. They are also in the process of changing the Megapacks batteries from 2170 to LFP, which frees up A LOT of 2170s for Model Y. Using the 4680 for low volume like Semi and Cybertruck this year and next makes sense.
Only because they cant mass produce them
Well they say that each year since 2017 xd
Semi is not possible for now. Battery energy density needs to double for Semi to makes sense in transporting cargo.
Makes more sense until they have developed the technology to the point where it's affordable to individuals. It's far easier for them to compete with $200,000 semi trucks than $30,000 consumer cars.
top tier tesla channel here!! amongst the elon scam channels, you thankfully provide us with useful knowledge, thank you.
Thanks Daymare!
I'm amazed: someone who can think, write and speak really well. Plus who knows and understands what he's talking about, plus has a nice personality. _And_ shows complete consideration for his viewers - makes everything clear _without talking down to us_ and has mastered the craft of pacing a presentation.
TTS Guy, you are a true rarity. Subscribe button soundly smashed.
maybe.. i have better things to than listening to sales pitches;
to me, just lip service, no NUMBERS,no Watt-hours per Kg for instance.
I'm impressed by the floors ability to hold up all those battery packs.
Well, the floor _is_ the battery pack - load bearing structure.
@@branchcovidian2001 He was talking about the packs stacked up in the factory. 1:48
FYI Cleanerwatts isn't in an empty condo. He is in front of a green screen and has chosen that image as his background.
Still an empty condo
Thanks for the update, best Tesla channel!
thanks for keeping on top of all this stuff. We're somewhere around 620,000 in line to get our Cybertruck, so every battery development has our attention...
Haha! I’m on the list somewhere too. I wonder what the new prices will look like. The old price schedule that was up when I made my reservation is gone.
Great video. Thanks for the info
CleanerWatt is using green screen. The kitchen is a simulation, not his actual background. And NOW you know why there are no appliances.
Great video. First time I really understood how the battery is put together. Thanks
I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed that Cleaner Watt was producing from a minimalist apartment. Maybe it's nothing more than a backdrop.
I'm hoping Tesla will eventually sell individual cells for other companies to use in things like scooter and ebike battery packs.
I got recruited to be a Tool and Die Maker for Gigafactory Texas for the battery division. After 8 interviews over months, they just ghosted me. Completely ghosted. It was a dream position for me. It was pretty crappy to ghost me like that after such an extensive process.
Apply for something else and then move over.
Great information. Thanks
the stockpile of 4680 structural packs isn't really large. it's probably just a buildup for a quarterly, limited production run, of MY-AWD. Note that the MY-AWD is still an employee-only order item, not to the general public. Note also that the stacks of Megacasts outside the Austin casting facility are almost entirely REAR casts; very few Front casts are shown out there (though there ARE several production frames full of Fronts).
BTW, Cleanerwatt's background is a greenscreen and the 'kitchen' just a still frame.
Listen man stockpiles don't always have to be the hugest if you have good suppliers.
It seems a little copper/metallic paste would help energy transfer on the anode/cathode areas. Just like thermal paste (for heatsinks) and no-ox in high voltage connections.
One more machine to apply the paste, one more failing point. Also, another supply / manufacture line for that paste.
@@DunnickFayuro True, but as the machine is currently performing the entire batteries construction, applying compound to the lid (the last step) should be quite simple. The compound could even be an epoxy type material for strong adhesion and heat resistance. A similar substance is used in motor winding. It could be altered from an insulator to a conductor.
I believe that’s a stock background not the guy’s real house.
So, the stacks could just be they have switched all of Texas to 2170 only MY and the remaining 4680 batteries are built into structural packages and stacked. They are also creating more gigapress parts and stacking them.
100 Wh (or more) from a single cell. That's unreal. For comparison an average 18650 is 10-13 Wh. (Of course it's much larger but it's a single cell)
I watched how to make a good pie crust today. I found that texture and the process of the cold element and chopping of the butter has a lot to do with the development process of a perfect PI.😜👍🍒
Preproduction adverse effect?
Other than axial to axial alignment the dominant telescoping is governed by polar differential foil pretension. ie left edge Vs right.
Factors?
1) is chemical coating left/right uneven thickness variance. A thicken left moves foil to the left.
2) foil approach with pretension has left/right differential, a higher tension on the left it telescoping to the right.
3) the pretensioning differential was free drifting is a regulation problem.
Remedy?
Apply an active (closed loop) or reactive (passive) left/right pretensioning balancer/damper, this will compensate for
1) pretension drift and
2) chemical thickness drift
If we are using rolling fence to manage telescoping, second this effort and keep it as last resort.
Great videos and updates on Tesla. Excited to hear of progress in 4680 production yield.
5:06 best part of the video
Beast video!
JT ? Sounds like your speed is slowing down. How come ?
2:03 Stacks of modelY Structural Battery packs.
Just a thought.
Maybe Tesla is stacking/aging them to be sold in cars produced after Jan 1, 2023 to get the battery cell credit of $35/kwh, and is using the 2170 packs instead.
This 4 month delay increases each battery pack value by $35*80kwh = $2800
Let's say that they make 10,000 of them over the next 4 months...
That would be an extra $28M in profit.
Just a thought.
I think what everyone here is forgetting, is that a certain percentage of manufactured parts need to be set aside for repairs to cars already on the road. Structural effects and battery defects are inevitable and must be covered under warranty.
My strategy: What for my Cybertruck reservation number to come up and configure it the way I want, including FSD.
Higher priority for use of the 4680 batteries will be given to Tesla semi & Tesla cybertrucks since most Tesla model 3 and Y and various Tesla battery storage solutions can still use the 2170 or other batteries provided by various Tesla battery suppliers. Tesla semi and Tesla cybertrucks will have difficulties using the 2170 or other batteries provided by various Tesla battery suppliers?
im from Toronto, thanks for making me realize TESLA has a factory in TToronto lol - never knew that
The global leaders in EV battery technologies are CATL and BYD, both produce plate-type battery cells and package them into battery pack using the Cell-to-Pack (CTP) technology. Compared to 2170 or 4680 kind of cylindrical batteries, CTP batteries have slightly lower energy density in terms of Wh/kg, but have much better thermal conduction and therefore are much less likely to catch fire; in addition, because CTP battery cells can be densely packed together, at the system level, it can achieve higher energy density in terms of Wh/litter.
For example, CATL's latest CTP 3.0 battery can achieve 255Wh/kg for ternary battery systems, and with the same chemical system and the same pack size, can deliver 13% more power than 4680 battery. Unlike 4680 still faces technological hurdles in mass production, CTP 3.0 battery is technologically ready and is expected to be mass produced and comes on the market in 2023.
Although Elon Musk has been hyping 4680 as some kind of revolutionary battery, the truth is that 4680, just like 2170, is still using cylindrical cell, an inherently inferior architecture compared to CTP batteries.
Thanks!
*"bad espresso"* so send CleanerWatt a compare and contrast Espresso Machine top of the line for compare and contrast is all that is needed.
Battery business is bigger than car business
0:54: "Elon has admitted that 4680 will not be a factor this year"
Cybertruck: "What da? ... do I look like a Tonka toy to you?"
Semi-Truck: "Ooo ... can I be a Hasbro Transformer toy instead?"
04, Nov and we have Tesla añouncing enormous production of cells for grid storage, trucks, cyber trucks and a vast increase in car production. Maybe trebling production. This is another turning point that Elon has brought about.
Thanks.
The 4680 may be a perfect fit inside motorcycle and bicycle frame tubes.
Peter Gibbons: "I've already taken care of it, so it's not even really a problem anymore"
Napkin math...
The assumed 1 mm of additional length inside the can (recovered because no current collector is needed) with qn external length of 80 mm. Maybe 75 mm inside. Additional length coils that add 1/75 more volume would only add 1.33% more power. 2 mm - 2.66%...3 mm 4%. For this to work they need to pack 7.5 mm longer jellyroles in the can. Kind of doubt they have freed up that much space.
A 10% increase in power means something else is happening on version 2 cells.
Having seen the old ones from munroe live I would suggest they are saving at least 5mm with gen 2. So probably on or close to target.
Hello everybody!
The car with new 4680 batteries does not have any problems with the quality of assembly:
the details fit perfectly, all the gaps between the panels are excellent, the paint is done conscientiously, the same applies to the interior.
Nice summary, For the last 8 years Tesla has been battery limited hence no point in putting either the sober truck or the semi out on the market when Tesla makes more money in the volumes of 3's and Y's. Tesla in Markum in Canada is an expansion of the Hibar company (specialist in battery manufacturing equipment) they bought in 2019. This should not be confused with the current "Giga Canada" roomers.
Sober truck drives itself when you aren't
Research into electric storage batteries is essential to the future of the electric vehicle. Whatever problems vehicle owners face, they should be addressed by innovative creative ideas to make advances in electric battery development. An EV is only as good as it’s batteries.
with a weldless tab design, I worry about a high resistance connection between the tabs and negative terminal over time…
Laser weld
Please cover the news with Tesla Thailand and the new job opportunities there.
Page 11:00 depicts an anode flaps contact wafer an intermediary part to conduct anode current at the cylinder base. Notice that characteristic S laser weld path.
Problem? The anode flaps formed a ripple rich profile in front of flat portion of the contact wafer, flaps that are in touch with wafer can be welded, only a fraction of flaps are touching the wafer, flaps not touching the wafer will become a welding void. Practically this is dotted line welding, to an undesirable higher standard deviation.
They should just make a waffer disk that has slots for all the flaps to slide Into.
Not sure about the current thickness of the copper film in the jelly-roll. But I wonder if it can be made thinner without compromising thermals - increased roll length --> higher power density. Maybe that would help with terminations at cathode/anode as less resultant mass there.
@@TheAnthonyBrandi That would be quite a trick. Impractical to achieve in hi-vol. production methinks.
@@jimparr01Utube right, not practical.
@@TheAnthonyBrandi good thinking. We are looking at skillful labor kind of task also very hard for machine to carry out. The next best way in a automation is selective induction heated soldering. Solder reflow the anode flaps and the cylinder base directly, bypassing the wafer disc. Leaving us a heat and current friendly solution.
All those extra structural battery packs are marked with YSB on the container. YSB is the Sudbury, Ontario, Canada airport code. Sudbury, Ontario is one of Canada’s largest nickel producing cities, and is near Cobalt, Ontario, which has been ramping a Cobalt mining operation. I wonder if a decision has been made
about where a Canadian gigafactory might be located….
The Sudbury area seems too small for a Gigafactory. And a lot of recent rumours aim towards Quebec.
How long would a 3v led work with this battery?
In a Model Y with the 4680 battery and a range of 330, I have heard that there may be a future software change to expand that range? Can you provide this insight?
There is a lot of duplication of info among the various channels covering Tesla, but what you have in this episode is stuff I have not heard or seen elsewhere.
I wonder if this will effect the cost of older model teslas.
Order > push back > push back > push back > [big changes] > schedule delivery 😂
what size batteries are other ev makers using? what about solid state? arent these being developed by tesla?
Im getting a new 85kw put in my 2013 model s. Because tesla doesnt make 85kw for the S anymore, my new battery is actually a 100kw that has been software reduced to 85
My strategy is to invest in Tesla stock for now, in 5 years buy a car. Batteries, software hardware and other features seem to be getting better every week.
Don't know what Tesla's actually doing with the powder I would have suggested that it be stored at full vacuum and at low temperature, that's eliminating opportunity for moisture incursion
Keeping it dry will also facilitate a static charge that could help with even transfer.
@@nunya___ but, static could also be. a problem, like moon dust on Apollo EVA suits, etc.
@@keithb7981 Ya, physics is a bitch but I love it when she's the solutions. Now, bark like a dog! Good Static, youz a gooood girl. Yes you are.
Is Panasonic also using a tabless design? I guess they aren't using the dry electrode tech
I wonder when batteries will last the lifetime of the car. Like a lot of batteries last roughly 8-10 years. Then cost $20k-$30k. Many of these batteries are used for home solar systems. It would be nice to not have to worry about it until 30 or 50 years from now.
They already do for the most part. Batteries kept in normal temperatures age mostly from use, not time. Take a model 3 LR for example, the pack is rated for somewhere around 1500 cycles before losing more than 20% capacity. 1500 cycles with an average range of, let's say 250 miles in the real world = 375000 miles before battery is expected to be under 80% of original capacity. If you take the LFP model 3 on the other hand, it gets way crazier, as those packs are expected to hit around 4000 cycles with ease.
In part most of the batteries they have produced do. It’s mentioned a lot that recycled batteries would be better than ore at the mine. Hopefully it’s just easy to replace initially, and over time lasts as long as you are saying per lifetime before recycle.
nice video shows experience and good realistic themes for batery ther should be theme discusions about 4680 in increase length to 40% so you get 1040 km range now thats fancy only slight bigger box and car lifted form gorund and calculation should vary in in weight as lighter car sould easy pass ower 1040 km range which today as chiese test and so called this flated cell aproach offwer less fire and wider range now thats for thsi topic also si about dynamics off charge its known fact in rc models thats bateries as start was Nikl Mangan and still are in some ali sites for rc cars now are lithium bsed for durability that changed but also a form off wiring is unique so in china you get smaller batries much more durable what cahnged is from paralel hook to horizontal wiring in serial cells hook this technique allow kind pop out cells and easy swithc and slight more wiring but house hold can plastic or baged out with material insulator good thing about cellular density packing easy install prep for use also tuneling wind change charge in theory car can fill better are closer to air temprature or desired temprature range based on living condtions so is prep ready to asume in cold area a car batery can be slight heated on climate to wokr fiil eaisy or kepp constant prerusure on heat and mix with air vetn temprature techincaly speeking and createing like car vortex around aii around engine can give slight cooling to gen and offer heated air circulation and first in air larger air colector with whistle to create air swuuuush sound and then in tube in above wheel suspension into car do round systems slight angled pipes ot ari rotate then on side slight back a second air stream tube to colect air with dual pipe one goes to box kidney as know how tech and can be closed on servo( this use driver to decide level sound noicer the other pipe goes in back bottom for cooling bateary in pipe is also heater pipe from climate to create desired temprature air pass so through moving bateries can be aditionaly cooled or preheated to avoid loss off charge by distrubution energy and can be checked on display also
I have faith in the cybertruck having at least the second generation batteries, maybe they will also be the first to get the third generation ones as well.
Sounds like you are just repeating what cleanerwatt video stated. I felt like I watched his video all over again.
No can put a time line on this so I say it will be a while and then some if they hit no snags.
sounds like I will stay with my non-ev subary for a while
next year
tomorrow
sometime in the future
sure but come back when it is ready
ps - thank you for this sentence
>> opportunity to buy one
just an amazing sentence to highlight an issue
which of their cells are the LiFePO4 ?
IMO: it would be cool if next they made a 72mm X 120mm, aka: a 72120 battery cell.
Is it known what is energy capacity of currently manufactured Structural Pack MY SR from Texas ? I don't mean what Tesla claims, but what is actually measured. Sandy Munro who teared down that pack mentioned he was surprised it's 4680 is much more energy dense than what he was expecting, but was not exact with numbers.
Min 5:00 Cleanerwatt, he is doing a good job. Re furniture. I did not realize. That's not our business.
Tesla got new water bottles? It can hold 4.68 litres of liquid. That’s an engineering feat. Tesla is worlds best water bottle maker
With something like this and the general progress of rechargeable batteries, it is strange why do we still have disposable batteries allowed? On Amazon, the price difference is not that different. Every controller on the Playstation since ver 3 has rechargeable controllers. XBox took their time.
There are many reasons but if you want only one, it would be that lithium cells are far more dangerous. Any sizeable lithium cell is capable of dumping several tens of amps if short-circuited, usually ending up causing a fire or injury. An alkaline AA can produce maybe 2 amps? Less if it's a AAA. If you short circuit those they'll get a little warm and that's about it. That's why 18650 cells are everywhere, but never designed to be user accessible. There are also things like money. Xbox was making a bigger profit on controllers without batteries, now they charge the same amount ($60) but they have to pay for those cells they put in there now. Oh yeah, since rechargeables aren't user accessible, think about longevity. 360 controllers are old as dirt now, but you can still use them like you did 10 years ago with a fresh pair of double AAs, if it had a pack inside it wouldn't work very well or at all by now. Not like anyone keeps devices a decade though, let's be honest. But you get the point.
@@MicroplaysMC If it was so dangerous, it would not be sold at all. I get rechargeable batteries on Amazon. Every laptop on the planet has rechargeable batteries. I am not buying this reason. There have been a few cases of incidents with some batteries like the hover board and Boeing 787, but they were related to battery construction quality and or charging electronics.
@@sammcbride2464 Yes... That's why there have been few cases, because it's just a matter of quality and not user error. Rechargeable AA and AAA are not lithium batteries, they are nickel metal hydride (NiMH) and operate at 1.2 volts. They are also low power. That's why they use a different chemistry 🗿.
@@MicroplaysMC 9 Volt is lithium. Laptops are LiPO4. I just bought a charger that will charge 16 AA/AAA and 2 9-volts. I can buy a case of 4680s and build my own power wall. There was an unsafe time with Li batteries, but that has largely been fixed through internal electron safeguards. Even with NiMH, it seems odd that we are still using disposable batteries today.
@@sammcbride2464 There isn't a lithium chemistry in the world that is 9v at the cell level, not sure where you got that number. All modern laptops are indeed lipo4, still 3.7v nominal, as 18650 cells are too wide (which is what they used to use). Cool charger, what's the brand? (I'm curious) Lithium batteries are still unsafe though, same as always. Idk what the hell "internal electron safeguard" means, but the situation remains the same. The BMS is the only thing preventing a short or cells from over/undercharging. If you short circuit an individual cell, it will dump all of its current, same as always. Disposable batteries still have certain advantages over rechargeables. I even look to convert devices in my house to rechargeable, but from a business perspective it doesn't make sense. Not for consumers, and neither for manufacturers.
Where is this in comparison to the Lucid motors batteries ?
We purchased a 2022 MYP in December 2021 and were told that was a foolish choice since the new 4680’s and Tax credit would be here soon. Lol.
Since we already own a MYP, no need to rush, but we’ll update next year with the new tax credits.
Would love to see 400 mile range. 300 mile range is really pushing it some days and you have to really plan your trips with a lot of redundancy and time built in.
Listen man 400 isn't enough unless it charges back up in 5-10 minutes and if you have to leave early for one reason or another you might not have enough juice.
Tesla is always doing everything new using new technologies and processes
They are inventing stuff as they go along
This is accurate
The 4680 would look really cool in reloading a handheld electric mass driver. Seems quite ergonomical and... Chunky. Yeah. Too cool to pass an opportunity to design one around it.
I doubt one cell has enough voltage to power an "electric mass driver".
Almost everything Tesla, and SpaceX, have created has had a solid uphill road, but it has not been something that has stopped Tesla. No different with 4680. That seems to be a hallmark of Tesla, and SpaceX. They work it out, and they do not spend more time than necessary in doing so. Just my impression from the outside.
I think Elons greatest strength is getting people to push the envelope and make stuff work. He's beating moores law and wrights law with all this hard fought innovation but man is his team paving the way for the future. The chinese care companies are really innovating along with them and the OEMs are all starting to realize how screwed they are/will be if they don't get on the same page. Its taken such a short time to go from cell phone batteries in a lotus to the fastest production car on the planet, what do the next ten years hold for electric cars? 20k to beat a Bugatti?
I feel like a pouch cell would be easier and cheaper to make, keeping the same tabless design, lower weight, less materials, and can incorporate better heat activate fire safety between cells. Feel like they forgot the KISS rule for engineering and made things more complex than they need to be due to greed. Also don't really get the point of a "structural" battery pack. You way have way more design freedom with pouch cells and easily cast ribbs and dividers into the battery pack. On-top of that the way they foam fill everything makes it harder to recycle/repair bad sectors.
The density has been the disappointment so far, if it increases 20-25% that would be a relief.
30,000 lumen pocket carry flashlights here we coooommmeeee
They could just use a centrifugal force while they are rolling the batteries. Makes sense?
Hes a minimalist 🎉
Is somebody finally going to ask Tesla what they are doing to prevent a shut down in Giga Berlin for lack of gas?
I think cleanerwatts bg is a green screen like a microsoft teams one lol
Haha, that would make sense. We gotta send him some virtual furniture for the background then
I don’t understand why they have these problems. Didn’t they have a test facility in California? Somehow they didn’t have these problems there?
This problems are happening in their test facility. The only 4680 line operational right now are in their test facility.
hi
There is alleged to be a copy out there somewhere but no real information regarding its efficacy.
Where is that battery?
Do they have some security issues?
I don't see any other reason to stop their production.
What if they are highly flammable?
I am just confused why anode is said to be the negative side of the battery??? Is the whole presentation as accurate? My education is suggesting ANODE is the POSITIVE side of the battery. I hope I got it right or else my comment is sad :)
Lucid is the best
Will the M3 see 4680, when?
Eventually, I would assume so but probably not for a little while. Model Y is the priority and even the Cybertruck might be in line before the Model 3
@@TheTeslaSpace I’m thinking Semi Truck, Model Y, Cybertruck, then Model 3 for the order of the vehicles that they will prioritize 4680 cells for. They may switch over the Model X and Model S if there are cost savings and other benefits (longer range, improved acceleration, etc.)
The cleaner watt backgrounds a fake greenscreen
Seems like so much money being invested into something that only should be used to get mass in motion.
Meaning once the mass ( the car ) is moving , that has energy and can \ should be used to power the motors.
personally think they should be investing in "Alternator" technology, as when the mass is moving then it can power everything and the "battery" is then only used to get the mass moving.. AKA just like the automobiles in the past, battery is basically only to start the car, then everything runs off the alternator.
Just something about "battery" in EV cars don't sit right with me.. Something doesn't make sense but I'm sure it has something to do with lots and lots of money.
There's some fundamental physics that you're not understanding. Energy cannot be created from nothing. A gas cars alternator is a parasitic draw off the engine. Electric cars "alternators" are the main drive motors and they can and do recharge the battery, but not while cruising, only slowing down, By allowing them to act as a generator instead of a motor.
I will only order a 2170 cell Tesla model Y, as the current design of the structural pack leaves us with a poor design for recycling with all that pink foam, they have to do a better job with the structural packaging.
Let’s see when gen 1 will be in the market, it’s delayed so much :(
Be surprised to see Tesla advance with only a 90% production rate of 4680 far to low for high volume manufacturing some more kinks to iron out...
Every single year is a whole new game, but similar to the previous game.... whatever plans Elon makes now will most likely be adapted or changed by next year, things just move too fast for PRECISE plans to become reality as they are.
As long as you have the goal or guiding light or lighthouse to guide you from afar, then all is good, and his stated goal is to accelerate transition to EVs and leave ICE cars behind; so far so good.
I would be happy when I will see a battery density of 1000Wh/KG
I mean listen bro we have issues here, the more dense the heavier it will probably be so the more of it you carry the less space it takes up so are we really doing better or is it just doing the same and carrying a heavier battery in a smaller space and going the same distance? Idk. Unless you got a super energy dense very lightweight design it's going to be hauling a lot of weight around
@@TheAnnoyingBoss super dense and lightweight Yep.
Next big breakthrough will be square cell batteries.
@3:20 I'm not familiar with the 4680 specifically, but typically when we refer to the anode it is the positive terminal, and the cathode is the negative terminal
Not in my classroom or my batteries.
I’m still stumped on why Tesla chose the round over prismatic configuration. If you look at a stack of paper the most dense configuration is to place one sheet on top of the other. Temperature control also seems to be easier with the prismatic configuration.
I dont think they they could make those cells bear the same loads as a cylinder could. And they want to make these packs ridgid as hell so that it becomes the main frame of the vehicle, and cut down on the weight in the vehicle. Reducing weight is more important than increasing capacity, because you can just add more cells. But doing the full weight reduction they've been planning with the structural pack and giga castings will take care of alot of problems, reduce weight, and allow them to get away with using less batteries while they work out the kinks of new cell production.
Round is easier to cool, there are tradeoffs for everything.