The US Is MILITARIZING Scandinavia Like There Is No Tomorrow. What Are They Planning?
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- čas přidán 19. 05. 2024
- Since Sweden and Finland decided to join NATO, there is an unprecedented militarization going on all over the Scandinavian countries with the most insane political developments taking place in Sweden that is now selling out some of its sovereign territory to the US military. This use of the Nordic countries for NATO purposes and geared against Russia is unprecedented in either the 20th or 19 centuries.
To discuss what this means I have got with me three fantastic experts: Two from the region and one fellow neutrality researcher.
From Sweden we are joined by Professor Peo Hansen, from Linköping University.
From Finland we’ve got Dr. Tapio Juntunen from Tampere University
And finally we are very delighted to be joined by Ambassador Nasir Andisha, who is Afghanistan’s Ambassador to the United Nations in Geneva, and also the author of “Neutrality and Vulnerable States - An Analysis of Afghanistan’s Permanent Neutrality”
Chapters:
00:00:00 - US Bases in Sweden and New Era of Scandinavian Security
00:09:21 - Sweden's Shift from Neutrality
00:19:41 - Scandinavia's attempt at security and defense structure
00:29:40 - Political Developments in Finland and Sweden
00:39:44 - Finland's Perspective on Joining NATO
00:49:08 - The Domestic Issue of the Swedish Right-wing Push
00:59:17 - Nostalgia and Historical Revisionism in Neutrality Debates
01:07:55 - The Impact on Democracy in Afghanistan
01:17:59 - The Future of Security and Neutrality
01:27:29 - Changing Security Systems and Alliances
As an American all I can say is the Scandinavian politicians are wickedly irresponsible.
They paid handsomely into their offshore bank accounts.
Finland's political leadership and president are moral cowards. NATO, WEF and BRUSSELS decide what they say and do. They are committing treason against the people.
And so are all of their voters.
In the upcoming EU parliament election, I'll myself vote for a party whose only issue is to re-introduce asbestos. "- Do you know what asbestos is?" "- No."
na. most sweeds agree with it lok
@@bjorntorlarsson LOL
Remember what Kissinger said? It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal.
It’s so true!!!
That Statement is taken out of context
@@jacobjorgenson9285 What is the context that makes that a harmless statement?
I doubt he said so - link please -
@@JanEskildsen USA is the planet cancer, we can see those cancer cells all over this planet(military bases)
Swedish people fell asleep 💤
During invasion by NATO
Russia threatened Finland and Sweden with “consequences” on the 17 December 2021 in an open letter if you didn’t missed that. Basically Russia demanded control over our foreign policy and neo-colonial control by the Russian Empire of us.
Russia today is a revisionist state trying to rebuild the 1914 Russian Empire. Soviet Union what seeking stability, that’s the difference today. Russia is weak but extremely aggressive, trying to compensate for weakness with expansion.
Russia has a very long history of aggression and invasions against the nordics (14 major wars) so we know what they are capable of, we were not surprised when the Russias actually invaded.
The Russia plan was to install a puppet government in Ukraine in days and then a quick invasion of the Baltic’s to do the same there and the force out NATO and then create the greater Russian Empire dominating easterner and northern Europe. Next step would have been colonial Russian exploitation as they did in Crimea and have done during previous conquest.
Then wake them up and get out of NATO and EU!
@@karlheinzvonkroemann2217these are the media tools of the fourth Riech. Folk don't really believe their leaders are starting a war. Concurrently the legal system that should stop abuse of power has been replaced with long chains of split responsibility and officers who are psychometricly selected to work for money.
The only reason this can happen is for individuals to forget their divine self the parts of them connected more deeply to life. The system pushes fear and suggests spending to make it go away. Unless you think NATO is not capable of psychological warfare - clearly these tools should not be turned on society but covid allowed an emergency and we are still in it. When our leaders consciously pick a dangerous military vaccine to deal with a dangerous military lab leak and bizarrely make millions and even billions - ITS ARMED ROBBERY ❤✌
The Kalmar Union of 1396 (with/under Denmark) granted Sweden much more independence. Sweden has never been so surpressed as it is today. Google "Nu ljusnar våren kring allt Sveriges land" for an 1899 prediction of what would happen. You can ask the GPT miracle to translate the lyrics. "he who cannot endure virtue’s mild yoke, shall bear a heavier burden in the end":
Now spring brightens across all of Sweden’s land,
and all the tree buds swell abundantly,
and rivers and lakes break their icy bands,
and merrily the brooks in the moss bubble.
It shimmers yellow by the smallest ditch edge,
it shines violet around dale and steep.
Far-travelled guests once more build nests
beneath the roof eaves of old places,
and over fields where summer's harvests grow,
the lark’s song is heard from morn till night
and fishes in the midday sun’s blaze
frolic on the shallows among last year's reeds.
Spring is coming, remember well? For the last time
in a century, which shall soon end.
Next, when spring breaks winter's bonds,
the eye shall be dazzled by the new sun.
How shall old Sweden appear
when the twentieth century runs out?
Shall, when spring comes the last time then,
the same free winds cool Sweden?
Shall the same free man sow the earth,
which no foreign plowshare has yet approached?
Shall still around the land the same tongue
be heard with its Swedish ring of steel?
Say not that the answer is hidden in the lap of the gods!
Indeed a higher power governs our fates,
but where a people have been swept from the earth,
within them bore the seed of death,
and history, where it has scrutinized woe after woe,
easily found deep the red thread of vengeance.
So do not play with your future, people of Sweden,
that children and grandchildren may not reap the hazard!
It is not enough to be the interpreter of wisdom,
it is not enough to bear the burden of the day-
it was and is not enough for freedom’s defense
to dress youth in steel and iron.
More than weapons are faith and hope,
and the love for the fathers’ simple ways;
for a people, that has grown without reverence,
-despite all-shall freedom’s sun set,
and he who cannot endure virtue’s mild yoke,
shall bear a heavier burden in the end...
Now spring brightens across all of Sweden’s land...
If ever its freedom should go under,
may no spring sun break the ice’s band
and no bird strike in our groves,
but winter descend from our mountains
and bed everything in death’s white color.
No. They remembered what happened to Olof Palme, when he tried to make advances in peace with the Sovjet Union.
I'm amazed how much these people seem to trust the US government when its own citizens don't..
These Nordic countries need a FARA law - Foreign Agent Registration Act - which of these guest are on US sponsored think tanks and have publishing rights in "international journals". Then they would be really demonized as pro Putin!
only tapio seems to be doing that but i bet he doesn't, he's more likely to just be on the take...
bro mellicans were the last to get the memo.
Terribly naive. The Swedish Defense Agreement opened their eyes, oh yeah. They thought the US was being altruistic and noble. Fck me running.
90% do
The US is not militarising Scandinavia, they are militarising everywhere ... in south Asia, in Australia, in Japan, Korea, PH, Taiwan .... it has a garrison mind set... and works like a militarised state.
ALL of these countries that you named are already garrisoned by the USA, even Taiwan, which is recognized by the USA, has Americans (United States Marines) on Taiwanese (aka Communist Chinese) territory. It is in FACT garrisoning Scandinavia. The Americans OWN your governments, only in the name of Globalism, not International Socialism. Get rid of these garbage traitorous regimes that make up the EU.! It was the Germans in WW2 that stopped Soviet Expansionism, nothing else. Yet they are the evil country! How absurd!
That's why USA is the world's one true terrorist state.
Because they are!
I know I keep on saying the following but it is at the root of all political decisions being made in the west today, look to AIPAC 🇮🇱 financiers and how it will affect them, QED.
Know AIPAC and know where the next move will be made. Evil does exist and it’s disruptive forces will be found in AIPAC 🇮🇱.
Ow yes this is all to do with revenge from the Second World War and what was done to Eastern Europeans who now have left. This is why their policies are encouraging the mass slaughter of Ukraine 🇺🇦 youth by the Russian army. Their actions obviously reflect a hatred of Ukraine 🇺🇦 by AIPAC 🇮🇱. Actions speak louder than words.
So at a risk of being repetitive I shall say again.
“Babylon ow Babylon speaks again preparing the way for WW3 and Armageddon?
Great show, as you say, “If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles” (SunTzu), relating to this the following tells you what you need to know?
Remember the USA 🇺🇸 government is run and controlled by AIPAC 🇮🇱 so I would ask, “how this affects AIPAC 🇮🇱 financiers” not the USA 🇺🇸, if you want to know why this is happening?
You will never get the full picture unless you realise who the USA 🇺🇸 government, intelligence agencies, press and American 🇺🇸 social media, are run by and that is AIPAC 🇮🇱 financiers.
In fact I would stop saying the American 🇺🇸 government and start to refer to it as the AIPAC 🇮🇱 government as they are in control of it not the American 🇺🇸 population.
It’s not the American 🇺🇸 government interfering it’s always AIPAC 🇮🇱 interfering.
This is why if you want “Christ to be lord” in the USA 🇺🇸 again you need to remove foreign AIPAC 🇮🇱 interference in USA 🇺🇸 politics as AIPAC 🇮🇱 don’t believe “Christ is
Exactly.
The U.S. now has access to 17 military bases in Sweden without the knowledge of the Swedes!
They never understood their own Natives, Why does that even count as a reason to not decimate them?
The Sedish derpstate always were in bed with NSA and CIA without the knowledge of the voters who would protest if they found out at the time.
democracy in action"
@@FrancesSanchez-gw7lt Ignorance!
Yep. That's astounding. But on thinking about it not so astounding. The whole western world electorate knows virtually nothing about what's doing on globally. Nothing.
Unbelievable. Finland was legally bound to neutrality if I am not wrong. Sweden didn't entrust the issue with a national referendum outlining the consequences of membership
In my opinion NATO served its purpose during the Cold War
Since it has served the interests of the US to make illegal warfare for profit in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria and Yugoslavia. The combined military budgets of the US and its NATO vassals are 15 X higher than that of Russia. Still the NATO offensive on Russia is failing.
President Putin knows from his international career in the KGB that the Soviet Union was a Russian empire run at a financial and cultural loss for Russia. He has no ambition to expand his borders in any other way than to protect Russians as he does in Ukraine.
The US is a sunset empire. Its hegemony is over. How can Sweden team up with a loser, who is prone to committing crimes, even against its "allies" as it did when committing the terror act of blowing up the Northstream I and II pipelines?
If we are not careful we shall go down together with the US and share its shame in history.
Excellent comment!
You nailed it very well! 👏🏾
@perbondesen9309, Finland had agreeded in 1948, that this country would never join a military alliance which would be targeted against the Soviet Union. So Finland could not have joined NATO until the Soviet Union would have ceased to exist. But in 1991 this really happened, and so Finland at least in theory had free hands to join NATO, but at that time Russia was not seen as a big military threat to Finland. And so long Jeltsin was the Russian president, the Finns were not very stressed about Russia. But when Putin had been a few years in power, then the situation started slowly to change in Finland. But without Putin's large military attack to Ukraine Finland would certainly not have applied NATO membership in many decades.
Dangerous times. The death throes of the US empire will set the world on fire.
@@vesakaitera2831 You are right. However, in connection with the dissolution of the Soviet Union the Russian Federation took over the rights and liabilities of the Soviet Union unless other agreements were concluded to the contrary. I do not know if any such arrangement was made pertaining to the neutrality of Finland.
There is a old saying.
The sheep spend their entire lives afraid of the wolf and the bear but in the end it's the Sheppard who kills them and eats them.
So apposite!
Yeah but the bear wants to eat them today
@@davidwestwater2219No , the bear want them to be neutral .. I will give you example with my country- Bulgaria . abefore we enter NATO, we had army and alot of weapons, tanks, etc . After we entered NATO, our army is gone (by NATO'S order) and we destroyed most of our weapons . Now, we have NATO bases, but no army.. NATO, dont want us to be safe, but to be no treat if we support Russia .
What a disappointment for peace loving peoples around the world.
Oh come on. If they weren't so poor, they could have bought peace. You know , the Mafia knows that has it's "value".
Most people that is. However westerners are being brainwashed to accept evil. Look at Gaza now.
I am American so I understand how my country has been manufacturing consent for war for decades. And I understand that Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was caused by the US’ actions along with several allies including Germany. But I was shocked by how quickly and easily the EU & most of its citizens were fooled by US propaganda and immediately ganged up on Russia. Sweden & Finland I am sorry to tell you that you chose the wrong side. The US is not your friend now and will never be.
The Europeans have no idea what they've done. We have seen Washington manipulate and consume weak nations for decades. The Europeans use to produce some of the finest leaders in history. They have been conquered over the decades and their leaders were chosen by Washington for them. Just like Americans aren't actually represented in Washington, the Europeans aren't being represented by their "leaders".
Absolutely. Mr. Hansen is very sharp and realizes the actual situation -- that Sweden has become a neocolony of the US and has lost its sovereignty and democracy and its own history to a great extent. The Finnish professor is naive and confused and Russophobic. He, like most European pols, seems to have been brainwashed into believing that the US is a sincere friend of Finland/the EU and that Putin is evil incarnate. He is unable to see that the US is now in the process of economically destroying its "friend" Germany and gagging all Nato countries regarding the investigation of Nordstream. The US will soon try to use all the Scandinavian countries as pawns in its attempt to confront and defeat Russia militarily in the Arctic. Basically, through Nato, the US wants to use European countries as its proxy troops on the ground in a new Hundred Years' War against Russia and China, and now Sweden and Finland won't be able to say No! Luckily, it's unlikely that Nato will last more than 20 more years, since the US is declining as a civilization and as as a hegemon, and it will soon be forced to cut costs and focus on domestic issues. When the US pulls out, then the EU can freely negotiate a general peace treaty with Russia, which is also a European state. Future historians will look back at today's European pols and propagandists for Nato and regard them as Europe's "Lost Generation." Most of them have truly lost their minds.
If you were shocked by how eastern and northern Europe reacted to the return of war in Europe and Russian aggression, you're merely ignorant, there's no other word for it.
Russia has been regarded as a threat and a potential enemy for centuries and the sentiment is stronger the closer to the Russian border you get, due to history.
Nothing had to be manufactured, it's ingrained in the very DNA of eastern Europe that the Russians will attack again and again and again as they always have. They've always been an aggressive enemy, they've merely been dormant for 20 years.
The bear was hibernating, not dead. Ukraine is not the first victim and if it loses, not the last.
The US is certainly flawed and NATO is no angelic organization, but it will always be a better choice than the imperialists right next to us that have spent a thousand years murdering our peoples.
As a fellow American I can say your wrong
I cannot aggree more with you. Inviting american military to establish bases in Scandinavia, or anywhere in Europe, is suicidal and endlessly stupid. Europe should be doing everything in its power to keep american army as far away from Europe as possible.
Sweden national defense against Russia before NATO is 75%-85%.
Sweden national defense after joining NATO is 30% or lower.
USA is forcing Russia to behave aggressively, which in turn is causing European countries to soil their pants and join NATO. And that causes more paranoia in Russia. Vicious cycle that started with the narcissism of USA
This about the consolidation of global white nationalism the 4th Reich to maintain ill gotten gains!
The Russians have no desire to attack nto ant any European country. They had little to no choice but to get the USA (NATO) out of Ukraine. They offered to join NATO! If the USA said ok you're in none of this would have happened. The USA are the warmongers of the world. They have NO IDEA how to run a modern economy without huge military spending. This has been obvious since their intervention ins WW1 and WW2. How much more must we see?
What are these percentages?
And that selflicking ice cream cone is hugely profitable for the defense contractors, their oligarch owners and their bribed politicians.
Europe is looted and left behind with an predominantly muslim population to avoid Eurasian cooperation.
Scandinavia has given up its neutrality, as Switzerland did… all credibility is gone for both of them
Yes. i have gone sad over this. And not even an Ukrainian porn model could cheer me up.
For over 100 years, Scandinavia used to hold important meetings of global security involving both the East and the West because of their neutral status. That's gone now. All those important discussions will be held somewhere in Asia now. Small time Scandinavia used to punch way above it's weight diplomatically, but now why waste time? Why not just talk to the Americans directly? They own you guys anyways.
for us colonialism
@@f1aziz, the truth is still, that Finland actually didn't have any alternatives than to join NATO. The 1344 km long common border with aggressive and imperialistic Russia was just a too risky thing to be carried alone. And I am still a bit surprised, how easily NATO accepted Finland, because one could also see Finland as an poisened apple just because of that long border with potential enemy. Naturally Finland also had many resources, which would be useful to NATO. Also Sweden had many useful resources from NATO's perspective, and Sweden had a different situation compared to Finland, because Sweden could have stayed out of NATO. Being surrounded by fiendly NATO members Sweden was not seriously thratened by Russia. But the Swedes ddin't want their country to be the only Nordic country, which would not be a NATO member. I can understand that thinking. Because the Swedes knew, that Finland would join NATO despite what Sweden would do, had some impact. Also the Swedish Socialdemocrats didn't want this NATO membership to be a big question in the Swedish parliamentary elections, so they let the Swedish decision making to happen quickly. Then the process inside NATO took a long time because Turkiey and Hungary.
@@vesakaitera2831 I would respectfully disagree. Even during the Soviet times, Soviet Union was the enemy number 1 while not spoken about as such out in the public in Finland, Soviet Union never really believed Finland was truly neutral. As the Finnish guest in this video suggested, neutrality for Finland was nothing but a political tactic and not an identity. In reality unofficially Finland has always been part of NATO.
Becoming a NATO member is a long and arduous process, the lightening speed with which Finland became a NATO member suggests, Finland had been sitting on paper works for NATO membership for decades waiting for an opportunity to finally throw the nuisance of neutrality.
So I disagree, that Finland didn't have alternative, Finland is on path chosen by Finland long time ago.
One guest said Russia is weak. Then his country runs to NATO "for safety and security". Please help me square that circle. I am truly stunned by the european intellectism. They have no idea on how the world truly is.
@denisewilliams9987, You might have something true inside Your claim. Perhaps we Europeans don't have a large picture of the world. But we know Europe and Europeans pretty well, and we know which political system and which values are strange to us. And many of the current values and also the political system of Russia are such, that we don't believe to be worth to follow. EU is based on a totally different ideology than Russia and these two will be in the hostile relations with each other for a long time.
The irony of complaining about other people’s intellect but being unable to use elementary nouns properly
@@vesakaitera2831Your "values" are chosen for you by a tiny group of oligarchs and the WEF. Europe no longer holds traditional values and has embraced globalism. What you don't understand is globalism will absolutely eradicate all cultures, religions and "values". It does this in order to rule over billions more easily. You will become a generic, consumer/worker drone with no past and no future. You will serve the whims of a global oligarchy like the peasants of old served the aristocracy. You will not be allowed to ever become the aristocracy. You don't see this bc propaganda has so thoroughly programmed you. Do you have freedom of speech or a media that debates controversial matters? No. You don't.
I feel very sad for Europe. I wish I could have seen it when it was....European. Best of luck.
@@UfthakImagine, arguing about a leaf while ignoring the forest.
@@vesakaitera2831I suspect you have very little knowledge of what you’re talking about apart from key war propaganda mottos you’ve heard on tv.
Russia is liberating Donbas from NATO; did not invade.
What you say is true but in Europe most ppl don't know it b/c they are brainwashed by their MSM which do not say the truth. The Europeans don't have a clue.
you and I say this. it is the truth. but we are two lonely voices. even in the alt-media. i never hear ritter say it, macgregor say it, any of napolitano's guests say it.....
i admit russia did invade in 22 but they quickly withdraw to honour an agreement and they are to this day still behind the borders of the Donbas States that Kiev (meaning the USA) invaded. i.e. the invaders are Kiev (meaning USA)
What is the reason they can't invade?
@@fungames24 its not so much the term but the way its used, always seems to have a negative connotation against Russia as if nothing was happening at all prior to that date. its better to use just a few more words and get it right than to just say "invaded" as if Russia decided at breakfast that day that it would be a fun thing to do.
@@kerryf9399 If russia doesn't invade, how did it get so big? The negative connotation is in your own head. The point of a big army is to invade. Otherwise, you feed them for what purpose? Is russian invasion so bad? They have many ethnicities and they are all living together happily enough.
This move by both Sweden and Finland to join NATO will go down in history as the dumbest decisions ever made by polititians in European history and that is up against some serious competition!
My thoughts exactly. The very worst mistake they could make they made.
But seems democratically 😂
@@gregwang8628 Just because something is democratic, that doesn't mean it's good. America is pure evil, but democratic.
European politicians always make their worst mistakes when they underestimate Russia. In this instance they simply believe the U.S. Empire to be benign. The combination is extraordinarily stupid.
Yes.
Finland/Sweden will actually be Less safe, and have Less autonomy, due to this. It's entirely counterproductive. I openly admit that as an American.
True.
exactly correct.
Especially considering the US is not there to protect them against a Russian invasion. They are putting military bases there to surround Russia from all sides. That's why they took over Ukraine.
In my eyes the Swedish, Finnish and Swiss are very very stupid to gave up neutrality.
But they all are democracies approved by Uncle Sam 😂
This was not a decision driven by politicians in these countries. There are external forces far more powerful that just their government.
Oh yes.
Austria and Hungary are the smartest of them.
Are Austria and Ireland still neutral ?
What an abrogation of sovereignty- to allow another county to occupy your territory without question or thought about consequences.
Did Finland ever consider Russia demanding reparatioins for Finland helping Nazi Germany to starve to death 1 million Russians many kids @ blockade of Leningrad? Finland wasn't occupied after WWII, Finland really got the gall.
Finland always plays the wee innocent victim.
@@hm-kq2mq As does Poland.
@@mariadamen7886Poland was occupied and ruled by nartzee germ anee.
@@mariadamen7886 speaking of Poland, history never mentions the provocative acts in Poland-occupied Prussia, leading them to run and sign a security agreement with Britain in mid 1939
And for civilians killed in Karelia region in an ethnic cleansing attempt by finns...
As an American, I'm curious, can NATO countries open bases in the US ?
😂
Lol fuck no, the vassals pay homage to the sovereign not the other way around. We own all these little euro bitches.
Absolutely!
After US government drink plenty of anti-freeze though.
That's not how an empire works.
Good question. I doubt it.
The Swedish ppl must be extremely happy - voted far right got the farthest right u can get - the US is now in charge
There is no alternative. The supposed "left" is a fake illusion who are as in bed with CIA and NSA as any of the parties on the right
“Far right”? Swedes voted for the usual suspects. There are no “far right in the Swedish parliament even.
Right wing or left wing. Its still the same bird. In other words , the faces changs but not the politicks . Democracy is an illusion.
In my opinion it doesn't matter who they voted in, the outcome would be the same. USA is conquering Europe, with the hiccups in Russia. European people need to say goodbye to their good life, pretty soon their cities will look like LA, SF, Seattle, NY and others. In a few years they will regret what they have allowed to happen.
That's not far right...
There was this opinion poll where (about) 65% of Swedes said that they were for NATO membership, but only 40% wanted Swedish soldiers to fight abroad. So 25% of Swedes want to be NATO members, but have no idea what it means.
The propaganda level is ridiculous. It's even more pro neocon than in the US.
Give them time, wars tend to make people wiser beyond their age.
Yup an opinion poll. How many was asked in the poll? Mind that the NATO propaganda have been insane in Sweden the last couple of years. The utter corruption of the goverment helped with this.
But they are right that Swedish soldiers should not go fight for dubious causes abroad. Stay at home and defend the country.
@@secularnevrosis Usually 1000-1500 are asked in Swedish polls. Then there's the government 10,000 poll twice a year. Not at all like in the US where normally only 300 (one in a million) are polled.
Swedes know NOTHING and the want to believe that geting the NATO brand means that they are safe for ever and can keep not caring about it at all. That's what it is. It is an emotion.
No Swedish soldiers would fight for their country! That would be a racist thing to do! Scandinavia could not "become Ukraine 2.0", no a Russian invasion of Scandinavia would be over in two weeks. No one here cares to fight, or has any means to fight.
Quite stupid. What happened to education in Sweden? Or was it a Virus turning everybody into an Idiot?
I feel sorry for these guys who are the USA’s next Ukraine shield. What a bunch of suckers.
They love sucking.....maybe a "can of fun" brought upon them like Ukraine is getting will change their mind....just a few hundred FAB's away on their grid and energy supplies in the middle of winter could be something they get to enjoy?
A US F35 costs about 100 million. The Russian equivalent costs about 35 million. People in this organization are buying over priced systems and they have to buy this type of equipment FOREVER.
Having those planes (they are crap, that much it's pretty clear) will costs Finland an arm and a leg (maybe literally as well) They are terribly expensive to maintain. And it has been known, before Finland decided to bankrupt itself for those.
As the US secretary of defense admitted F35 failure rate is more than 30%. The overpriced piece of high-tech junk.
For only 10 millions per Month, you can have a subscription too....
30 hours of maintenance for 1 hour of flight time - go figure.
@@sergevtorino No failure rate is not 30%. Operational capability for A version (USAF) is 30% that is it can only fly missions 30% of the time. Is that a 70% failure rate? The B and C version has less than 20% operational capability - for Navy and Marines. US Senator Gantz called them a $100 million paper weight.
It doesn't matter who you are, if you are a Protectorate you're a Colony, and no one will protect you from your protector.
I have to listen to this again.
Was listening while cooking dinner, and had to re-wind after Peo said that there was a shift in attitude towards NATO membership in three weeks!
Then, he talked about the deal with the US, and my mind has been spinning ever since.
Mind you, in Australia we have the crazy AUKIS deal, that Australians overall, simply don’t want.
Thank you, as always, Pascal, for your I the resting guests.
How can Sweden and Finland not see how the war with Ukraine was engineered, and that they are being set up to be allies in war.
NATO has been shifty into, at least since the bombing of Serbia.
What a crazy world.
I await the day citizens will get out on the streets and ,arch for peace: not for or against any country, but for world peace.
Nobody wants war apart from those in power and those who profit.
Yeh the guest seems to be talking a lot but not saying much of anything. This always happens when you are trying to justify the unjustifiable. Also known as BSing.
We need to be watchful and help sleepwalkers to open their eyes, otherwise we'll sleepwalk into a nasty war. We want peace! Not imperialism, not USA hegemony, not meddling into other countries. Let's be vocal about it. Peace!
“To be an enemy of the US is dangerous, but to be a friend is fatal”
Henry Kissinger
The illegal coup backed by the US/EU/NATO in Ukraine in 2014 with the following civil war in the country, which is the main cause of the destruction of Ukraine, is not addressed in this debate. Why is that? Finland fought with the Nazis in WWII (shifting late in the war when they saw that the Red Army won), and Sweden (like Norway) participated in the illegal attack on Libya in 2011 (in what the intelligence services dubbed the Arab Spring). Do the Swedish people like the immense increase of violence they have had the latest years?
America and France are now being kicked out of Africa where they have been operating like colonialists, just like European countries, all the way. The Soviet Union helped liberate African countries from colonialism, and this is not forgotten by the Africans. Who liberated Europe in WWII? It wasn't the Americans, they came roaming in, a couple of years after what can be called the Soviet victory.
The lack of historical and especially geopolitical knowledge and also of the principle followed when it comes to security seems to be dominant still, even after America has made it clear that the European states are being used as military bases to attack Russia, with the intent to weaken and destroy it, then attacking China with the same plot and intent, so here it comes:
When it comes to security, the principle of indivisibility is in use (which is in fact the same principle as the Pareto optimality): "All the heads of state of the OSCE countries signed the agreements in Istanbul (Turkey) in 1999 (the Istanbul Declaration) and in Astana (Kazakhstan) in 2010 (the Astana Commemorative Declaration) ensuring indivisibility of security (not to strengthen one’s own country’s security at the expense of the security of others)." ~ Sergey Lavrov (on the 29th of January 2022)
Security is indivisible, as agreed upon by several treaties, treaties that America has violated:
a) The Helsinki Final Act (also known as Helsinki Accords or Helsinki Declaration) of 1975.
b) "All the heads of state of the OSCE countries signed the agreements in Istanbul (Turkey) in 1999 (the Istanbul Declaration) and in Astana (Kazakhstan) in 2010 (the Astana Commemorative Declaration) ensuring indivisibility of security (not to strengthen one’s own country’s security at the expense of the security of others)." ~ Sergey Lavrov (on the 29th of January 2022)
c) "What brought us here is the following: The eastward expansion of NATO, launched by Bill Clinton in the 1990s, including the illegal NATO bombing of the former Yugoslavia, breaking promises previously made to Moscow, an expansion which was needlessly and recklessly pursued by the Bush-Cheney regime in the early 2000s with the disastrous consequences that we now see. These actions violate the concept of indivisible security (involving the OSCE). But the 8 years of refusing to implement either of the two the Minsk agreements ending the civil war in Ukraine is the main reason to the sad situation in Ukraine and hence Europe." ~ Alexander Mercouris
(This last is from The Duran on the second of March 2022.)
The Finnish politicians seem to believe that Finland has been "promoted" (they still want to deter Russia), so here is a more sobering and realistic view:
"This is all very carefully timed. The entire Ukraine operation is very carefully timed so that its end coincides with the end of pax Americana, the end of the American empire. Without the American empire lots of things including South Korea, including Japan, including all of NATO and including Israel will pretty much undergo spontaneous existence fail. It may take them a couple of years, but eventually they will basically cease to be military powers of any sort. And so that's the thing to look forward to." ~ Dmitry Orlov
(Reference: CZcams: Dialogue Works: NATO's Gloomy Future | Dmitry Orlov.)
Perhaps the Finnish and other European politicians should stop trying to be Westerners, most of Europe is after all situated on the Eastern Hemisphere. And we all speak languages reflecting our history and interactions with each other, the Indo-European languages, with a few exceptions (like Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian and Sami, which all belong to the Finno-Ugric languages). Yes, the Russian language (an East Slavic language, from Kiev Rus' and the Varangian Vikings) also belongs to the Indo-European language family.
At around 33:35: The new (Defense Cooperation Agreement, the DCA) agreement that America is kind of forcing upon Scandinavia is an agreement where "you would think that this agreement is being signed after one country defeated the other in a war", because it is basically that kind of text (and Sweden can not check what the Americans do or bring in, with American sovereignty on Swedish soil). (The Americans cannot help themselves even if they never have won anything militarily!) It's a bizarre sort of agreement. It's a stark illustration also of the thoughtlessness on the Swedish side, it's a reflection of the poor knowledge and the poor diplomatic corps that we have now (in the former Swedish "moral superpower"). (This sad development started with Sweden joining the EU.) ~ Peo Hansen
Sign this. From Norway.
@@stinakarlsen3181😂🎉😢
I am sure Swedish and Finnish citizens feel safer already. They went from being cordial and friendly with Russia to being antagonistic, hostel, and hosting Russian's enemies on their territory. I am positive Russia does not have armed nukes now pointed at those countries. Great job, Sweden, and Finland.
You've been reading too much Russian propaganda if you think the relations were ever cordial and friendly. Yes, we do feel safer.
They don’t pay VAT in the UK either. they also owe the UK a lot of money in parking charges which they refused to pay when the US embassy used to be in central London. Hegemony status. It won’t be long before we have a treaty between Russia, China, Iran and North Korea.
You forgot the large and growing number of BRICS countries which would mostly oppose NATO if it came to the crunch.
@@reasontruthandlogic yes but you forget that the majority of these countries belong to NAM (non- aligned movement). But of course things can change!
They also fail to adhere to the Laws of the U.K and when there are accidents like when they fail to remember that in the U.K the left hand lane we drive in and therfore when they're involved in accidents and cause fatalities,they secretly leave the U.K and don't face the law and justice of the land by hiding behind diplomatic immunity.Its disgusting and damn right outrageous.And it's happened more than once.
@@just_golds
Indeed because their name is not Julian A…. When will Europe wake up?
Well, to be fair, when you think about it the US defeated the GB in WW2 so they shouldn't really be paying VAT or parking charges, comes with perks for the winners.
People thought that the Swedish Democrats would reorient Swedish politics inwardly. Unfortunately, the Swedish Democrats are among the biggest supporters of NATO!
when a party has "democratic" in it,s name-be aware-it is the exact opposite
Yep, some democracy 😂
Flip floppers. Now they are pro l-EU as well.
They are and have been a bunch of losers. They among with all other parties except V and Miljøpartiet agreed to censor party finances after Moderaterna tried to kill Offentlighets prinxipen, to cover up how public assets had been sold out, for pocket change, to their donors.
There is literately nobody to vote for in the EU elections in Sweden. Everyone is pro-war.
The US are aggressively steering the world towards WW3. With around 900 bases world wide, the by a great margin largest military spending and constant meddling in every nations internal politics, well except Israel, the US are displaying an extreme interventionist and imperialistic behaviour. Constant harassment of potential and actual economic competitions, dragging into the sphere of military conflicts by military encirclement and expansion the USA threaten the sovereignty of all nations on the planet. In other words, the US only have either clients or enemies. The most prominent tool of the empire is the internal division, leading to uprisings and regime changes and if this fails its immediately followed by open hostilities, through economic sanctions and paramilitary subversion.
Not the world, Europe. This ain't WW3 it's EW3.
@@f1aziz Well, China and Iran aren’t exactly Europe. And sanctioning India is just the beginning of another conflict. And please don’t forget the decade long ventures of US dominance, including sanctions and covert regime change operations in Latin America and Africa. You see? The US Empire is everywhere. Those US citizens, who are opposing this policy at campuses are either being denounced or clubbed into submission and the majority of the US citizens either don’t have or don’t want to have a clue what their elites are up to and are victims themselves.
@@f1aziz In other words, the USA are not a democracy. It’s an utterly corrupt corporate kleptocracy, whose goal is to rob the world and its own population of its wealth.
@@scoobydoo936Look, Europe/West has this habit of making their wars a global problem, while wars in other regions are kept local and projected as between those bad bad people that have nothing to do with Europe/West.
With this EW3, Europe/West is choosing this upcoming and almost inevitable war, and because they're choosing it, they should not expect the rest of the world to jump in like it did in WW1 and WW2.
As a non-European/non-Western I don't want this EW3, but since they want it so desperately have at it.
China is desperately trying to not get goaded into conflict, and I can confidently say there's not going to be kinetic war in East Asia, there's just going to be sanction wars and exchange of harsh words.
There's not going to be a war wit Iran either. This whole region has changed. American don't have the capacity to bring war to Iran without imploding this whole region, and nobody wants another never ending American war in the middle-east, not even America's allies.
So no, I don't see any war coming in any other part of the world, unless something drastically changes the balance.
The only major war that everybody should really worry about is EW3 that Europeans are eagerly wanting to wage.
@@f1aziz I don’t think you got my point. For the US it’s not only about Europe, it’s about the global place in the sun. Almost the entirety of Europe is in the pocket of the US or its companies, BlackRock, Vanguard, State Street…. This is not stopping in Europe with the Ukraine conflict and Russia as an enemy. Already now, both the US and their EU clients are turning their focus onto China and other BRICS members. The Taiwan conflict is just ramping up. It hasn’t blown up yet because China has shown considerable restraint in that matter. And Europe is to reliant on China to take immediate actions but is positioning itself and tries hard to cut ties wherever it can. Just a few days ago China and Russia have demonstrated the rest of the world their intent to deepen their alliance on all fronts, if not formerly, more so symbolically. I think that now both the US and Europe have finally started to acknowledge the significance of BRICS and the fact that more countries are moving away from the dollar based world order and this poses a great threat to their wealth and post colonial, neo-colonial exploitation model. Japan has more than a trillion $ in US state bonds. If the dollar collapses they are instantly bankrupt, just like the rest of the West. They will be fighting on all fronts, worldwide. It’s just a matter of time until the blocks are fully constituted and then a tiny spark could incinerate the whole globe.
The tall blonde legs of Sweden opened wide for Yankee Doodle and wrapped tight around his back
Invite an army, create a brothel.
Ummm ...Very ''colourful''. Very graphic. But yes, that's about it.
@@soniavadnjal7553 AND WITH NO CONDOM
Remember Julian Assange! He couldn’t go home because of the Swedish accusation…
@@soniavadnjal7553 you can say that again...
One word...hysteria....giving up their precious neutrality...BIG MISTAKE...
A democratic decision 😂
@@gregwang8628 Proof that democracy is bullshit.
@user-pg8pc2pw9i, the neutrality for Finland has never had any absolute value, it has just been a proper tool for that time. But when Putin decided to start a large military attck to Ukraine, that changed the security surroudings of Finland very much, and joining NATO was a very natural reaction to that change. You should remember, that both the Finnish president and the Swedish prime minister clearly said to Putin in late 2021, that if Russia will attack to Ukraine, Finland and Sweden will join NATO. But obviously Putin had made his decision to attack to Ukraine already for several months earlier. That decision was really a bad mistake, the biggest that Putin so far has made. But it is highly likely, that his advisors told him, what he wanted to hear and not the realistic view about the situation about Ukrane, the possible Western support to Ukraine and the state of the Russian army.
@@vesakaitera2831 Why should Russia care if Finland and Sweden join NATO? They're both insignificant militaries in insignificant places. NATO is doomed anyway.
What does a Scandinavian security structure means in reality? It could be interpretated as a fully subjegation to the US? The government in Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland is rooled by politicians which are part of the globalist elite. In Norway the US army gets facilities which is of limit for Norwegian authorities, where the US can store nuclear weapons. Is that an optimisation in security? Not really, but the appointed enemy Russia has been abled to simplify it's nuclear strategy. The don't need to take Swedish and Finnish neutrality in consideration anymore. The can permanently lock the missiles on the Scandinavian country's without consideration for neutrality.
Spot on.
If you let the Americans do that, then I have no sympathy for what the Russians will do to you if this all kicks off.
In Denmark the government wants to sign an irrevocable aggreement allowing US military presence on 3 air bases. The American personnel will be stationed under American jurisdiction which is a flagrant constitutional violation of Danish territorial sovereignty.
And I bet that is written to survive even the breakup of NATO and even the EU. Thus USA controls the Baltic.
Denmark should do what France did by not allowing American troops on its soil.
Thanks to French president Charles de Gaulle.
What amazing bribes and threats were proffered to the Swedish and Finnish criminal elites?
Sanna Marin is now in a profitable consultancy job.
Imagine - she might be getting $1m a year. But Finns are getting shaken down by many billions a year for the US military industrial complex.
It's definitely highly profitable - for the warmongers that is.
In the book Covert Regime Change by Lindsey O'Rourke, she says that the states most vulnerable to US influence and covert operations are: (1) small states, (2) democracies and (3) US allies. I am not saying that this is necessarily the case, but there is room for reflection and suspicion.
The reason loves democracy is because it is so easy for them to subvert.
@@magnaviator Yes, Washington DC despises governments which try to set up "gatekeepers" to protect their inhabitants from becoming an outpost of the US imperial system (disguised as a system of "friends, in a rules-based order").
See Georgia.
Sweden might be large territorially but it is small in terms of population.
Thank you, Pascal, for a very interesting and informative discussion. As an old Swede in Guatemala C.A. I am appalled to hear what has happened to Sweden!!! They, the politicians have lost their sense, sold out to the USA and given up their sovereignty. Peo clearly understands this, sees it as it is, shame the politicians fell for the money, because that is how the USA works.
We are being used as a spearhead for the fight for the Arctic passage.
You sold yourself like a whore to be used, yes.
You aren't used by the USA as spearhead. You are being used as a nuclear/war buffer before Russia can hit USA
We'll go through the rectal passage first.
@@Gunni1972 no sh#t. No pun intended.
Good luck with that...nobody is interested in facing Russia when provoked
If everyone in NATO, no one in NATO
If everyone in NATO. Who to defend against?
Thanks for the Interesting discussion.
I am a little surprised that the discussion about Russia’s invasion of Ukraine does not mention Ukraines March 2021 declaration on ‘de-occupying’ Crimea and their subsequent military build up in the east. Wouldn’t that have been seen as a declaration of war?
Yes, that is why it was not mentioned 😂
Scandinavia is the Italian restaurant in Goodfellas.
Great discussion. One important thing was missing - the economic consequences of joining NATO, especially in light of the growing pressure to increase the percentage of GDP spent on the military. It can be well argued that in a time when much more needs to be invested in industry and technology, the shift towards increased military spending will further increase the decline of European economies including that of Finland and Sweden.
Is there nowhere on this planet that the USA doesn't want to turn into hell?
Even the Moon would be part of NATO
Nope
to Tapio's point about Russia posing a greater threat than soviet union in terms of actually taking military action instead of just diplomatic means, i would argue that they did use diplomatic means multiples times. This argument can only work under the narrative of 'unprovoked' invasion. There was nothing unprovoked about it, If you listen to the story of the other side as well and balance the two arguments. It would seem that Finnish population got conned big time due to lack of information and half truths.
Now, let's picture a scenario where there's open hot war between Russia and Nato.
Now, let's put neutrality in perspective, which would be safer? A Nato Finland, or a neutral Finland?
A neutral Finland would have the edge such that no side would want to attack them as they would risk pushing Finland to the opposing side.
A Nato Finland would be perceived an open enemy since joining means hosting bases for troops of Nato and defense systems. That means Finland is fair game, in fact, since they are on the border, it'll be the first to get hit.
So security wise, this decision does not make sense.
There is one scenario in which this move makes sense though: Russia never attacks Finland, There is not an open war between Russia and Nato.
This way, Finland can hand over their security to the Nato, cut their defense spending and move that money elsewhere, like welfare programs perhaps. Now that's a good move economically speaking and that's something that makes sense.
However, if this winning scenario is indeed what the elite in Finland imagined that would mean Russia was never really a threat to Finland and it was purely an economic decision and to make this decision they manipulated their public to give it a democratic spin.
"A neutral Finland would have the edge such that no side would want to attack them as they would risk pushing Finland to the opposing side."
This is a silly thing to say because the risk of an attack from Russia is far, far greater than the risk of an attack from any other country.
"it was purely an economic decision and to make this decision they manipulated their public to give it a democratic spin."
This is a myth. No manipulation was required. Public opinion regarding NATO in Finland swung immediately after Russia invaded Ukraine.
@@jaarneal my friend are you in Finland? Since the perspective of someone on ground is bound to be different from someone who looks at things from outside.
My opinion is from a neutral perspective on this, and personally, I'm a neutral in this.
What you call a silly thing to say, that I said in case Finland was truly neutral, and there's a hot war. Neutral countries can take advantage of those situations.
Looking from outside I think I'd be confident in making a bet that Russia would not invade a truly neutral Finland. Their policy from what I know so far have been reactionary. I'm not an expert or anything, so if you'd like to enlighten me, kindly do.
As for your assertion that public opinion was immediately turned no questions asked once they attacked: That was the thought behind my statement about manipulation actually. Let's consider a scenario that it was Switzerland instead of Russia that invaded Ukraine, how much of public would immediately go against Swiss with no questions asked like why did they do it? Now I've got nothing against the Swiss, I wish to discuss the manipulation, and swiss are known for not invading others in europe. We always hear bad things about Russia.
For example, the things I've heard others say or imply:
They are a backward people.
They don't like freedom.
They want to bring back soviet union and that's why they keep electing putin.
Putin is an authoritarian dictator who has no real support among populace.
Putin kills everyone who disagrees with him.
Putin kills protesters.
Putin is just evil.
Putin wants to invade Europe.
Putin wants to take over Europe and colonize it.
This is just off the top of my head. I'm sure you my friend can contribute to the list yourself.
Now I'm not debating the truth or falsehood of this. I'm sure many of these are true, especially about Putin. However we are never given a context. Do we ever hear the other side of story, and actually ask ourselves if they have a choice otherwise? What is their thinking? What would we do in their stead?
Manipulation works by slowly and gradually only feeding negatives about a group of people. And then when they do an aggressive act, it is very easy for the mind to not be curious why they did it since you always hear negative about them. You don't question and just believe that they did it because they are evil and don't have any right to be heard.
It's always a very gradual process and it takes years to condition a population. In today's age it can be done around 1.5-2 years I think thanks to the total control of media and our lifestyles.
Let's be honest, people really don't give a damn about researching things when everyone is busy trying to make money to survive. Our needs have grown exponentially. I remember in early days of phones, it was a 'want', now it's a necessity of life.
Point is, if people are distracted about making ends meet they wouldn't really have the time to analyze things. Then In their limited free time if we condition them with news we want them to know, we have people who are easily manipulated waiting for a trigger.
Manipulation is a fascinating topic if we look into it. Now more than ever in the age of social media. And our younger generations are most susceptible to it thanks to their addition to quick dopamine release brought by shorts for example like tiktok and CZcams shorts.
In any case, I definitely do respect your opinion as well. There indeed would be a threat from Russia, but my argument is that Finland is not really neutral either, so if you pick sides, you're antagonizing one side for the other. In any case we won't know now would we, since Finland is now in NATO and any chance we had at seeing a neutral scenario is gone for good.
It's still a good economic decision I think on balance so I hope you can cash it wisely. That's of course given that there's not a hot war. Then everyone is screwed. And the chances for it seem 50/50 right now. Which is frightening.
“…after Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine…”. What would have been Russia’s legal action to prevent Nato in Ukraine and to protect the rights of the Russian population living in Ukraine?
Yup, time and time again you hear these people say that. They also usually follow that statement with "Russia had other options". And when you ask what those other options are, there is SILENCE!
@@zambani Exactly! Russia repeatedly and openly sought other options, and even after the war began, the Russians tried to get a quick peace deal early in the war, but NATO sabotaged it! NATO could have avoided the war, and after it began, NATO could have allowed a peaceful settlement early on while casualties were relatively light on both sides. But no! It was NATO, not Russia, that wanted this war. That's what the US _Extending Russia_ report in 2019 was about, our plans to destroy Russia by provoking a war in Ukraine coupled with draconian sanctions. We planned this war (the document proves it), not Russia, and we insisted that the war continue after Russia and Ukraine had agreed on a peace deal. The Europeans are mad to cast their lot with us. Finland, Sweden and Switzerland should have supported NATO during the Cold War when it was an exclusively defensive alliance with a legitimate purpose, not now.
"What would have been Russia’s legal action to prevent Nato in Ukraine and to protect the rights of the Russian population living in Ukraine?"
This is predicated on the idea that the Donbas war was an ethnic conflict. It was not an ethnic conflict, but the first phase of a Russian land grab. If you doubt this, look at the annexations of Fall 2022, which covered not only the Donbas region, but regions far beyond the Donbas.
Mindless drones just repeating MSM propaganda. The western world is infected with these mouth breathers😵💫
It is quite wrong to say that public opinion led Finland to NATO. Here in Finland media has ever since the fall of the USSR been very pro-NATO even though the population and most political parties have not been. It was media misleading the public. After Februrary 2022 there were no debates in the media, just propaganda.
A better Finnish scholar to be a guest on Neutrality Studies would be Heikki Patomäki.
You are right. Juntunen was incredibly naive (as are most Finns) and quite clueless about how great power politics works and what the security situation really is. He was basically echoing the war propaganda narrative.
This comment is right on the spot. The media is also very pro-EU and pro-America. Basically it presents copying US as only solution for dysfunctional things here, instead of considering China for example. Political parties are selling same shit with different branding. Basically increasingly totalitarian fascism masquerading as "democracy".
The world will not have peace when there is greed, hatred, and illusions.
Isnt America great?🤣
Glad to see that the support for neutrality is far higher in this comments section than amongst the guest speakers, with all their unhelpful references to pseudo respectable ideas on ‘realism’ and ‘constructivism’ - ideas which are themselves about as neutral as sulphuric acid.
LOL
? - I thought Hansen was pretty supportive of neutrality right down the line!
Sweden is one of the countries in the world with the largest arms industry. From armored cars, ships to fighterjets. And it obviously aspires to sell its weapons to NATO countries, with the approval of the US. Because in NATO, no country can buy a bullet without Washington's approval. NATO, in addition to being the armed wing to control Europe since WWI, is also obviously the largest sales platform for the US MIC.
And as a European country that founded NATO, I would like to ask the Swedish guest and especially the Finnish guest - who does not talk about the brutal damage to the Finnish economy, with the bankrupt border areas since it moved away from Russia to join NATO without the Russia has represented any threat to Finland - how they see these occupation or colonization contracts by American military forces in exchange for joining NATO in the 21st century? 17 bases in Sweden, including with nuclear weapons. Without any control from Sweden, a completely independent country before joining NATO. US soldiers cannot even be charged or tried for any crime in the Swedish justice system. They have total impunity.
And as it seems that the Finnish guest in particular is not very concerned about joining NATO, I would also like to ask how they think the USA would react if Russia were to install missiles in Cuba again today? In 1962, the US threatened to invade CUBA if the USSR did not remove the missiles. And this is how Russia will react to NATO bases in Sweden and Finland. As the US missile threat in Poland, Romania and Ukraine was the main reason for the invasion of Ukraine, after Moscow in December 2021 asked the US to withdraw missiles from Poland and Romania and NATO to withdraw from the UA.
In the same way that the deployment of USSR missiles in Cuba in 1962 happened after the US deployed missiles in Turkey that threatened Moscow. After all, who is Europe's biggest enemy? Because it doesn't seem fair to me to be portraying Russia as a threat to Europe, as Western propaganda says, because all of Russia's actions over the last 100 years have always been reactions to threats. From Nazi Germany and then the US. And even the Finland-USSR war resulted from Moscow realizing that Hitler would invade Russia through Finland as it happened. With Finland allied with the Nazis. And the FI never signed a peace treaty with Moscow at the end of WWII.
Which could lead Moscow today to legally interpret Finland's accession to NATO as a right to finally end the war with Finland, without the need of any declaration of war. Since peace was never signed in 1945. Finland has many concerns to think about besides current Russophobia. And Europe to achieve peace again, urgently needs a new security agreement that addresses the concerns of all countries, including Russia. With NATO far from Russia's borders. Because it was the enlargement of NATO and not a sudden illness of Putin that caused the war in Ukraine. NATO should have ended with the end of the Warsaw Pact. For a Europe autonomous from the US.
Sorry guys but you sound a bit naive, is there really any difference between the EU and NATO ??? I don’t think l so … both work hand in hand. Also I don’t understand why the Scandinavians who seems to be attached to their sovereignty more than the reste of EU countries are giving in the US influence … also can anyone say in what form Russia was a threat to Scandinavian countries ??? I am sorry to say that the Finnish and Swedish leadership have compromised the interest of their people by joining NATO which is not a défensive alliance but rather aggressive one … as John Maersheimer says ; no country in the world should trust the US …
Poor Sweden and Finland...too bad too late.
Aside from Finland loosing a lot of business with Russia and Sweden loosing its international moral high ground, both people of Finland and Sweden thought that they would make it easy for themselves to let Americans fight the Russians for them by joining the NATO, but now that they are in the NATO, they are gradually understanding that they will be used for the sake of America and NATO, at least in some ways, is/was the pimp to get them to do it.
Both Sweden and Finland would be better off sticking with and hugely boosting the Scandinavian defence mechanism after the Russian military reaction against Ukraine.
The abstract mainstream repeatedly emphasised talking point in Finland and Sweden was going "hand in hand" in NATO.
As for Afghanistan, the best way to bring peace and stability is to improve that country's regional interactions and arranging safe and important trade routes with all neighbours.
Scare tactics work ! And the fact that they are all increasing military spending tells all, just follow the money. When European politicians retire to villas in the south of France or Miami it telling why we are here.
Help save Uncle Sam’s voracious appetite for wars😂
In my opinion FInland like Switzerland lost neutrality in summer 2021 when both ratified the purchase of the F-35. Call it the best fighter in the world or a piece of crap, it's so integrated with the murican's ISR you can only fly it with their permission.
It's like a subscription model fighter plane
The same template is in Australia’s agreement with America’s military has been signed by Morrision’s Liveral government.
Hello Swedish citizens! Anybody home? Apparently, you're not big on past historical events. Oh well, you'll find out.
Ola Tunander and his book “secret war against sweden” comes to mind
They want it they have it😂
Juntunen is still using propaganda language re Russia v Ukraine.
He is a Finn. Russia lives in their heads rent free.
All of them well behind the level of comment and discussion The Finn sounds like a funded type
@matrixnorm6672 Seems true of all the Romainians I know too.
The expected prescribed terms and phrases were indeed accounted for.
@@matrixnorm6672, we Finns have so far had 34 wars against the Russians. The U.S. has never had a war against Russia. That explaines a lot, why the attitude towards Russia is different among the Finns compared to the situation in the U.S.. And I sincerely hope, that the Americans would stop teaching us, how we should act with the Russians. After all we Finns and the Baltics know the Russians inside out.
I like nasir s idea about neutrality moves to other countries . Too bad for Finland and Sweden. They have sold their souls.
Is it true the US is planning to station nuclear weapons in Sweden and Finland? How do you think Russia response will be?
sarmat.
@eymeeraosaka2954, no. The U,.S. doesn't want to station nuclear weapons to Finland or Sweden and those countries don't want them. Both these countries like the nuclear umbrealla, which is protecting them, but putting nuclear weapons very close to Saint Petersburg and Murmansk would not increase the security, but quite the opposite. That would shorten much the reaction time for the Russians to respond a possible nuclear strike, and that accidentaly could cause a nuclear war.
Together with an ARTE docu on the EU and the EVP and Ursula etc., taking both into account, this is the most horribly shocking debate I have listened to since many months and there was a lot happening in these months.
The way Sweden was practically reprogrammed in a totally constructivistic way is extremely dystopian and shows, how much the thing we thought is "Democracy" has been divorced from violent, brutal, actual reality of imperialism and pending world war.
To Pascal,
the factor was underrated: These small countries partially are lacking of geopolitic experience, not even daring to speak of imperial experience and understanding, so their elites are practically helpless about what is being done to these countries. And it is shocking how even Sweden that has had historical rich experience, simply got reprogrammed and the political hard disk reformatted.
This is some form of capture of media plus constructivistic story telling. It pulls everyone into a fake narrative, people are helpless because their emotions and instincts get scientifically exploited. This is going to create the known "mass formation".
And the worst thing is - those in power in Washington have lost all imperial knowledge as well - if the particular clique ever had it. They are doing total nonsense, out of greed for domination.
it is a pity that the discussion, which are rich in content in themselves, have lost a lot of seriousness due to Mr. Jantunen's absurd closing statement. it would certainly have been more honest and maybe even exciting to hear that from him at the beginning. I attribute the strange gap between academic discourse and forced confession to a kind of opportunistic corruption, which is now institutionally entrenched.
The Kool-aid has had its affect.
Total collapse of Scandinavian statesmanship….
They going now for Arctic.
Exactly!
The long-time promise made to Finns not to join Nato without a referendum was broken very quickly on the basis of 2 or 3 opinion polls with rather small samples, excluding the population over 79 years of age (which can be considered a problem from democracy's point of view). The result of the referendum could have been the same, but it would have allowed time for political debate which was not there, and has not taken place at all. In some comparative opinion surveys Finns have held the most negative attitudes towards Russia and have attributed the war in Ukraine solely to Russia more than people in other European countries. The press is heavily concentrated and the information on Russia, Russian "aggressive attack on Ukraine" etc. gives a very one-sided view on these issues, and so does the national broadcasting. Finns happen to have an exceptionally high trust in their news media. The attitudes seem to reflect this. The critical and "old school" neutrality views are expressed mainly by some retired persons. Those in office may have to worry about their contracts, perhaps because of substantial cuts in public spending on everything else than military, so it is not wise to be too dissenting; after all this is a small population with limited resources. There are not many persons I can think of who could have given a critical view in a programme like this. One could have been professor in global politics Heikki Patomäki from Helsinki University.
Very important topic and panel. Agneta Norberg was warning about this in an interview with Regis Tremblay a few years ago.
If i remember correctly our prime minister Sanna Marin had this saying "To be part of EU we need to be part of decisions of EU". It was disgusting to find this new European solidarity that was largely driven by warmongers Van der Crazy and Jungle Borrel. It was really no surprise that these warmongers example Jungle Borrel has stated "Ukraine was blocked their Nato membership but instead Ukraine we got 2 countries".
So because EU (sanctions) is all about being satellite state of USA allied by money laundry organization called NATO (buy more weapons support USA projects). So military alliance deeply married to commercial alliance.
I think one least ONE of the key operative words people should be thinking about regarding Scandinavian pivot away from neutrality is, Infiltration. In filtration in its military officer corp, but more importantly, infiltration in a cross-section of the political class, by the US. This happened over a decade or more. A covert 're-Architecting' of European security to an Atlanticist model. The Europeans leaning towards Strategic autonomy, lost the battle, and were politically neutered or sidelined. Russia's SMO in Feb'22 was just a trigger, a very effective one. But the underlying alignment towards an Atlanticist Europehad already coalesced years earlier, with Poland, the Baltics states, and a vassalized EU Commission, playing the role of agitators and/or cheerleaders.
Look at what happened to Greece. With all the US bases around, Greece become the a new state of US. Nato concept is poisonous and we used to envy that Sweeden and Finland are not part of the Nato.. But now, i am not certain. I believe, everything started with the EU project and there after came Nato enlargement. We can see what is next but can the rest?
I don't blame powerholders but the swedish people who try in which price abstain from any political thinking. I have worked 30 years in Sweden and never heard my colleges talk politics. We in Sweden are scared to death talking about something more than everydays chores. We deserve our politicians but they deserve better than us.
Sounds like ostrich sticking its head into sand thinking nobody can see. 🤣 Nobody in this world can run away from politics regardless you want or not.
Very interesting...my son has studied and lived 4 years in Stockholm and the only people he met able to speak about political questions came from...Middle East, not Sweden. ( We are French)
All sounds very disturbing to me!!!
The New Swedes have imposed no-go zones in Sweden, so the Americans doing the same shouldn't be a big deal.
Thank you for your comments Mr. Hansen!
Even during and after WWII Russia had no wish to include countries of Europe within the Soviet orbit. By necessity they pushed the Germans back through every nation in Eastern Europe which Germany had conquered. In so doing they experienced the Nazi ideology which had become entrenched in those territories. It took 45 years for the USSR leadership to come to grips with the folly of remaing in Europe. Sadly, the parting of ways was very badly conducted on their part, including the extremely unwarranted trust they placed into the hands of Western nation leadership. The arrogance of Nazi ideology is ever more marked in Europe today to say nothing of that of Americans. This will end badly for all concerned.
Tapio clearly had no understanding of the Russian position ignoring the valiant attempt by Russia to get the Minsk agreement adopted He also totally ignores as does the panel USA aggressive plans and policies towards Russia inclusive of breaking up the country. Lastly you should remember Kissinger’s statement “ to de an enemy of America is dangerous but to be a friend is fatal “.
He is totally following mainstream media narrative. Minsk agreements were omitted by media in Finland. Narrative on Russia has been mixed, then negative here since late 90s
Couple of weeks ago i stumbled upon video about Finnish modern military. In comments people discussed Russian territories, that should be Finnish again! NATO give wrong assumptions to countries, that of very opposite of proclaimed ones. Some Finns expect territorial addition to Finland easy with NATO!
Politics bought by BlackRock
This Juntunen fellow seems to have really drunk the cool aid on Russia.
They hate Russians, like a lot of Eastern states
The idea of public opinion is so naive and low level thinking. There is nothing more easily being manipulated than peoples mind.
Correct. Propaganda rules these days
Finland never learned to be sovereign. But loosing Swedish neutrality is an issue.
Danke Pascal !
One wonders just how well 12 USA bases would hold up against say 24 non-nuclear Kalibr missiles.
Wonderful to have all these bases and need for the USA to supply weapons etc
..question is whether the USA has even the resources to do this. It's like buying an expensive house where you can't afford the payments and cannot even use all the rooms. At some point the bank will repossess and you will be on the streets. What happens when USA goes bankrupt?
Russia has been trying to find an agreement with the collective West for many years; 1990 “not one inch Eastward NATO”, 2007, 2014, Minsk 1, Minsk 2, Dec 2021, and April 2022. But the collective West leaders behaved like shysters. Russia had no other choice.
Finland, as a nation, appears to harbour deep anxieties about the role they played with Nazi Germany in Operation Barborosa and the seige of Leningrad. They were quick to reverse course when it became evident the Russians had what it took to push back forcebly against the Nazis. The Finns likely never forgave Russia for not being much more harsh in dealing with the opportunistic behavior.
😂
It’s very interesting that Finnish politicians followed “public opinion” and made such a grave mistake. On one hand the decision looks democratic, but if you dig deeper you’ll quickly see that there were major propaganda campaigns underway in the media keeping the populous in the dark
There has been major propaganda themes in favor of EU, NATO and US since 90s in Finnish media. Presenting them in good light. Like NATO as "defensive alliance". Public opinion is mostly formed by mainstream media if people believe them. These could have been presented differently, as well as not omitting bad things.
@@leka3129Funded by.... the US! That's how they operate
@ferhanfikret8990, here was a huge increase of the NATO membership in Finland in a just few days after Putin had started this current war in Ukraine. This was by far the biggest change in the gallups ever measured in Finland. This was "a spinal cord reaction", and the media started to prapagate the Finnish NATO membership only after this reaction had already happened. We Finns had seen, what had happened to a neutral neighbour of Russia, and we didn't want our country to become another Ukraine.
@vesakaitera2831 Neutral neighbour... with the President chosen by the US!
We do not know s*it about the public opinion in Finland. Only a poll was conducted, and the company that made the poll was not transparent about the results. This is why we had elections and this is why we should have had a referendum. If a politician cannot tell the difference between a vote and a poll, then she or he has shown her or his inability to be a democratic leader.
Like with China the USA is building bases to surround Russia. To willingly loose your neutrality means, that in the case of a war Sweden will be flattened, To create no go zones for Sweden on American bases means that America can have nuclear weapons. This is not a problem as Sweden has already indicated that they will house nuclear weapons
The lesson from Ukraine is that if you pursue neutrality you risk being couped
Our Elites must go
I think it has something to do with the Arctic Sea. Mind you I am no expert in politics.
Such a tragedy that Sweden and Finland joined NATO
Very good discussion, Pascal. Hansen's interventions were particularly enlightening.
Urho Kekkonen: Better to be a Doctor than a Judge, and enemies, if you have to have such, should be as far a way as possible
"Russia today is weaker today than the Soviet Union ever was." What is the man drinking? Certainly the way things were going for Russia in the 90s, such might have been the case. But had not been Putin to reverse course, it would have been some other highly capable person. By 2000 the true colors of Western nations were beginning to show themselves.
Sure but Russia+China today is relatively far stronger than the USA.
Tapio sounds quite happy to be part of nato😮
Has the fear of a Russian invasion caused Scandinavia to welcome an in-house, Imperial military? West African countries are kicking NATO out with the help of China and Russia so I guess Finland and Sweden will get those American troops that are being asked to leave Niger