Ukraine's Plastic Machine Gun Belts
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- čas přidán 2. 07. 2022
- Traditionally the PK-pattern general purpose machine guns have used non-disintegrating metal belts but RAROG, a Ukrainian company, have developed a disintegrating belt made up of polymer links. In this video we take a look at their development and why they might be useful.
Be sure to check out our accompanying article for this video here -
armourersbench.com/2022/07/04...
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Truly groundbreaking. I'm sure the troops on the field will be very happy to carry 65% less weight, than the regular belts. Great video.
with the added plus of it being disintegrating link design
The links are not %65 of the weight of the ammo, that's like saying the belts are heavier than the bullet case and powder combined
@Lee T Yeah you need to use a link catcher to store the empty links as they eject.
@Lee T yeah, war pollutes, always has, just another tragic consequence of human conflict.
@Lee T Yeah but I think losing a war is worst than some plastic laying around.
The PKM has an excellent field belt filling machine that's designed around non disintegrating belts. It's an amazing piece of equipment compared to other belt filling machines I've used. I have to wonder what the troops testing these links think about that aspect of them.
Yeah for NATO it's not an issue because we have plenty of resources, but for ukraine where the want to reuse everything it may not be the best option.
@@aaronsmith4940this belt is more about the issue of the weight of the ammunition carried.
It does make me wonder how soldier proof they are
We are testing plastic cased ammo as plastic is cheaper then brass
Their probly saying damn this is light.
as a german there is one question: where is the recyceling bag holder on the other side of the gun?
They should definitely offer it.
The last thing worried about under fire is if the stuff is being recycled. Even for position disguise it’s not helpful, boots leave plenty of evidence behind.
Mhmm. Last of their worries at the moment.
if you Germans stop bying putin's gas, the war will end soon, no more gunfire, no more bits of plastic thrown around, profit!))))
@@c1ph3rpunk but on the contrary with metal belts without the links you can not reload a new belt and because it is a belt fed you can not use the other riflemen ammo if you need more because they are linkless.
From a logistics stand point is not ideal
militaries probably dont really care much about this, but it would be really cool if they were biodegradable
It definitely would be.
Storing issues might occur
Don't worry, at least the ruscist occupiers killed with it are biodegradable
@@Yaroslav_Tselovanskyi :D
even if they are not- they are a heap of small objects staying in the field, to large for swallowing but too small for not causing harm to deer and rabits, they are not sheets to be wrapped into, or threads to get choked by, they are as harmful as small stones lying about just everywhere
SO 3x lighter, can be mass produced due to inject molding, cheaper (couldnt find price for metal links) and the metal can be saved for something else
And if you insist can be reused
Plastic pollution.
@@zinjanthropus322 And the PITA green activist strikes again
@@the7observer Machine guns go through millions of rounds in conflicts. That's like going around with sacks of plastic pellets sowing the fields.
@@zinjanthropus322 pretty sure there are other things going on in a war zone that are much worse than plastic pellets
Being a Maxim derived belt link, these Polymer Links are almost clones of the WWI Prideaux Link for Aircraft Vickers .303 use, made to replicate the canvas and brass tabs spacers. Everything old (100yrs) is new again.
Now to see if they work in extremes of climate ( Arctic cold, Desert heat).
At least no rust or looseness ( stretching) problems.
Doc AV
I hope it will be adopted by polish army asap, especially that there is iniciative to cooperate closely between polish and ukrainian defence industry. For years we had gigantic problem with having enough disintegrating belts in our army and i'm not sure if that problem was solved.
werent most pkm rechambered for 7.62 nato?
@@lefunnyN1 they where but they use same solid belts as before(being made out of cloth). first disintegrating belts for ukm's 2000 where an invetion of mid 2000, but to this day solid belts are used for excercises. I bet it wouldn't be much of a the task to get them to create polymer links for nato cartrige when a lot of polish arms went to ukraine (like majority of of A0 and A1 GROT rifle)- after all being sneaky with diplomatic "mail" is old trick of kaczyński brothers (they did transport a lot of GROM manpads, Beryls and so on as polish secret service members).
@@radosaworman7628 There are more NATO machine guns in the Ukrainian military service. Examples FN MAG M240🇺🇸L7🇬🇧 MG-3 7.62x51 NATO MG-42 FN Minimi M249🇺🇸 L110🇬🇧. Perhaps the same company should make polymer belts for them then have a partner in the United States and Western Europe license produced their technology
Hopefully...before ukraine becoming unukraine
@@Danzo6333 doubt that. nato superiority in case of satelite recon should give them 30 to 60 days of notice before scoomrads will be ready to launch anything- just like nato was able to predict war and vectors of attack half a year before war happened. (source: J. Wolski)
Something like this has the potential to greatly reduce carry weights for soldiers, as Russian or Soviet era boxes and links were really heavy, and switching to a lighter box and belt links would mean between 10-30% more rounds carried, for no real cost other than having to buy new belt links, that are basically disposable and you run out of anyways. A really good idea I've thought about for a while, interesting to see a company make a really good product
"The pkm is one of the lightest medium machine guns, how can we make it even lighter" "engineers:yes"
Damn this is some real ass futuristic frontline tech development
Freaking GREAT!
I think you've got something good here.
I’m surprised I had never heard of these until now, cool!
Generally, the issues with polymer and temperature have more to do with the plasticizers than thermal expansion.
But softening of surface, surface geometry changes due to volatiles gassing out, means it can 'loosen grip' on the round in addition to reduced friction. Wouldn't be ideal for long term packaging, thats for sure.
@@patrickw9520 Outgassing during manufacture produces visual defects. Possibly why they aren't transparent any more. Hard to look for those defects on a tiny piece you can't see. Easier to spot in a color. I have done quality control work on injection molded plastic. It requires good light, calipers and patience. I would hate a job of inspecting 50,000 belt links a day spewing forth from an injection molding machine.
@@kenibnanak5554 Yea in Europe we have computers that doing the inspecting part... and the transparent part would actualy be a plus in this case but it would make the final part much less UV ressistant.
@@kenibnanak5554 More like 10 of every 10,000. Ideally the molds would have a good lifecycle because there is no glass fiber in the mix. I would compare this to when they started introducing steel cased ammunition. It will just take time to perfect. I'm more excited about True Velocity's polymer cases.
This is a bit of a solution in search of a problem, but there are definitely niches where having even a pound or two less weight from belt links would help a soldier or a helicopter.
3x’s less weight!, reusable up to 10 times!!, impressive!
This something I am surprised hasn't been adopted already. I know other countries and firms have experimented with this but the weight saving looks considerable to me especially for heli door gunner application. We definitely need this more widespread before the Xenomorph infestation.
It's nog preferred because of logistics.
With them trucks need to carry ammo for riflemen and deferent ammo boxes for the machine guns.
In battle you can not collect all the links to reload them and at the same time can not use riflemen ammo because they are without links.
What a great idea ! This decreases the weight that the ammo man in the MG Team has to carry ! Not to mention that disintegrating link belts are far superior to non disintegrating ones ! The belt is unwieldy to carry around, especially after had all the rounds fired from it. Then to re fill the belt isn't all that fun either. But, assembling a belt from links and rounds takes time too! Since all former Com block ammo comes in tins that you have to open with a can opener.
Well if you can make a plastic belt that works, it does two things for you, first, it's cheap to make, so you can spend the difference on ammo, and the troops can carry more ammo for the same weight. A country with limited resources has to innovate to at least be even in a fight. I can see other Armies going to this as well. I bought a rifle back in 1974 it came with two plastic polymer magazines, The magazines work as well today as they did when I bought the rifle. Shot a lot of deer and other big game with it. So yeah it can work without issue. The rifle is a first Gen Steyr Mannlicher Model M professional in 7 x 57.
Definitely cool. When you're humping MG rounds, any weight savings is welcomed!
Most likely used with a link catcher to store the ejected plastic links so they don’t cause problems.
Not shown im any of the test fire images - you can see the empty links on the ground.
Now, a link bag to recover the links for reuse should be feasible, giving the belt ejection port is forward of the case ejection port, and it's above the ammo can if you are using a clip on ammo box. (It has to be left clear for use with the original non-disintegrating link belts, so *any* "on gun" ammo box will have a clear path available that a link chute to a bag can be attached.) Making something that attaches to the ammo box or bag and reliably holds at least as many links as the ammo box could hold as loaded ammo should be easily feasible, and would mean that the ammo box goes from being full of a belt of loaded ammo to a carrier for the links afterwards - when you go to reload the ammo can with fresh ammo, you'll already have the links required (or at least most of them, assuming a few break). This dramatically reduces the cost of disintegrating link belts (where you normally discard the links after one use in field conditions) versus nondisintegrating belts (where you recover and reuse belts as much as possible). Given historical combat loss rates of nondisintegrating belts, the "life cycle price" would probably be about the same, even if links only survived 10 cycles (they really are that much cheaper than steel nondisintegrating belts), and the rather considerable weight of a the belt when using metal belts is basically minimized to almost a rounding error of your overall ammo weight.
Plus, plastic doesn't rust, and rarely fails in a covert manner that can have you thinking you're going insane trying to debug a gun, only to find it the 23rd link in the 7th belt has a small burr or dent.
I can't have plastic straws that'd go in the trash and get processed at the garbage disposal site, but I can mag dump hundreds of plastic links directly into nature. What a time to be alive...
The links are reusable
@@dragonstormdipro1013 so is the straw
Carry a straw pouch on you to store used straws like how the PK can be fitted with a link catcher to store ejected links.
@@dragonstormdipro1013 we all know no one's walking around after the battlefield collecting used link.
So smart invention that reduce a lot weight on infantry's shoulder.
Thanks for watching guys, here's the accompanying article for this video!
armourersbench.com/2022/07/04/ukraines-polymer-machine-gun-belts/
Is there video showing how this belt is filled with ammo using the belt filling tool?
O this is great! Plastic injection molding is so fast, you can create a lot of links in the shortest amount of time, and its lighter than the sheet metal counterpart probably, aiding in adding less weight to your soldiers. Its perfect.
Also the plastic ammo boxes that can be attached to the machineguns are very cool. That should really aid in the maneuverability of the machinegun. Also the disintegrating part of the plastic belt is great.
What is next? Plastic casings with a sheet metal base??? They have that for IFV vehicle autocannon ammunition already. It should be able to cut the weight down even more.
Very promising!
Greetings,
Jeff
soldiers: yay lighter ammo
commander: yay more ammo
I wonder how long the links can remain on the feed tray before they melt after sustained fire
In the hand of Russian orc...not long enough.
In the hand of Ukronazi...it will remain intact for quiet a long time..because lifespan of Ukronazi soldier is like...too short
So this is where all my plastic straws are going!
PLEASE READ ENTIRE COMMENT At first glance I thought this was a solution in search of a question. I referenced my time in the 82nd when I was the assigned M60 gunner ( in my unit, we rotated the 60 every month ) and never had to deal with the presence of an empty ammo linkage device hanging from the side of the weapon.
Back then the Soviet counterpart of the M60 was the RPD and I was well aware of it's non disintegrating belt and thought of it as primitive as their GP-4u gs mask I had seen photos of. I have no doubt that MG Gunners using weapons with non disintegrating belts curse them whether they be mounted on a vehicle, fixed in a ground emplacement or anything in between.
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This gadget offers weight savings and it eliminates the hanging empty linkage, but it is not durable ( 10 uses ) and any non corrosive advantage can be duplicated with weather proofing and/or using Aluminum.
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The stated weight savings is 2.2 Lbs for each 250 rounds and I will call that and the non corrosive factor the only advantages these plastic links have to offer. Every soldier whether he is a Grunt, Driver, Medic or Spoon appreciates the weight savings. If you never served then I'll ask you to find a 43 inch steel bar or pipe that weighs between 9 to 10 pounds and carry it around for a day or two so you can have an idea of what the GI's had to deal with in WW2 with their M1 Garands. But, if the weight and durability is such an issue then use Aluminum. I'm sure you could use them more than the 10 times these links are good for if you had to and I know on many occasions this has happened.
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I want to add that one comment said " it would be really cool if they were biodegradable ( randompanda876 ). I want to state here I know that would be a nightmare. Imagine the ammunition supply of an entire class of ordinance being of questionable reliability because it may not have been stored or transported under the right environmental conditions. Between the rumors and wives tales ( and assurances from leadership who may have political ambitions and not wish to voice a non PC utterance ) and toss in a verifiable incident or two you would have an entire militia looking for black market ammo. Not good people, not good at all.
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The stated temperature range of -70 degrees to 120 degrees Celsius translates to - 94 degrees to 248 degrees Fahrenheit.
Okay,Listen up people.
If the ambient temperature is 126 degrees below the freezing point of water, I'm not going because I would freeze up like that T-1000 .
AND, if the ambient temperature is 248 degrees AKA 36 degrees ABOVE the boiling point of water, I'm only going to attack them so I can liberate their air conditioner. WTF Are you planning on invading Venus? Who fights in those conditions?
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In conclusion this offers a light to moderate weight savings and it eliminates the hanging empty linkage but all that goes out the window when it's only good for 10 uses. There's a reason everything that last is heavier than it's lightweight counterparts. It's called Heavy Duty and it means built to last.
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Thank you for reading this far and please state if you are a veteran if you reply.
Thankyou for covering these developments so diligently. It's great to see a more neutral voice, looking at the tech and materials being used
What about heat? After sustained firing then you stop firing, what happens to the link sitting there on the tray?
Would be nice to see a 5.56 variant eventually
3x lighter. Big improvement for soldier in the field needing to carry ammo box.
I wanna see these run through a Maxim machinegun lol
That’s pretty cool, they’ll be making polymer cases next and have their own next-gen ammunition! (Which, if it stayed rimmed, would be hilarious)
well rimmed polymer cased is like a sound idea due to the fact the their is more meat in the base of the case to the polymer to stick it.
Yeah rimmed rounds were preferred early on due to the superior gas seal it produced with the early thin brass cartridges, and later in early smokeless powder adoption, not just as a legacy from prior production but because the early smokeless powders were not well understood and somewhat unpredictable in practice.
The rim gave extra support to the case head helped to direct a overpressure detonation away from the shooter.
This is also why the later Mauser actions were so redundant in the case of a ruptured cartridge, because Mauser was one of the first to push rimless cartridges and ran into the early issues with them.
Yanks produce 6.5mm polymer rounds and 7.62mm for the mag gpmg
@@reubendobbs8011 Yeah, but it hasn't been formally adopted yet. I almost bought a box of 20 of the 7.62, but they're charging $3 a shot at retail
@@MandoWookie Rimmed was not chosen in order to make a better seal, it was chosen because it was simple and most rifles were not box magazine fed at the time. Brass foil cartridges generally seal extremely well due to expansion - so well in fact extraction was often a problem when rifles became hot as the extractor ripped the case head off the cartridge. Rimmed was an improvement of the feed system in general rather than a result a quest for better structural strength. The largest nitro cartridges use a belted case head in fact to duplicate the strength of a rim in a rimless Mauser action.
I do wonder if they could be used from Maxims, given that the PKM and SGM use Maxim belts.
this is huge, the non disintegrating belt was the only real drawback to the PKM, if these links are as reliable or better, this is a game changer
A Ukrainian company making a lighter and cheaper version of soviet equipment using modern materiel's, which has some NATO compatibility in its new improved function, is truly an excellent example of where Ukraine is culturally...
"Temperatures from -70°C to .."
Finland: shut up and take my money!
Weight saving are good as long as they perform as well or better than their traditional metal counterparts. Awesome design! Well done.
So many of my Russian made belts have rusted up. Plastic links really intrigue me.
Magpul watching this has got to be kicking themselves.
Is it possible that, during sustained fire, parts of the feed system will get hotter than the design parameters of the belt?
I would imagine that's what they've been working to avoid with their development process but I can say that definitively.
If you are talking about plastic heating up that shouldn't be the case since plastic doesn't conduct heat as good as metal does. For instance, take a look at RM277 (one of the contenders for NGSW). It's polymer casings are cold on touch.
I've always wondered about this. I always assumed we could make a plastic durable enough for this
Fantastic product
A great application of injection molding technology. For a peace time army I might question how well the links would do if stored in high temperatures for long periods of time or if exposed to UV light. UV will brittlize almost all plastics eventually.
For the Ukrainian army however these make complete sense, the links won’t be in storage long enough to matter either way. Being able to carry an additional box of ammo because your links are lighter is a significant advantage.
A link catcher could be helpful for battle situations.
Can there be a catch pouch added to the firearm, I realize that 7.62x54R is burdon primed so it isn't really that easy to reload so maybe this isn't a great idea but just asking.
ah I'm still feeling a bit sorrow knowing that US did not pick the true velocity plastic-case 6.8 ammo.
I'd be happy to test these out as well - but so far they're hesitant to export any links at any price.
Wouldn’t make sense for a country at war to export military equipment.
I'm wondering if they have any plans to work with that British ammo company to develop a biodegradable solution
It would be a win for the environment that's for sure.
Upgrade for sure!
That parkerisation has seen better days lol
Wonder how it holds up to the heat after you've dumped a few belts then have one sitting in the tray for a bit
Yay, thanks for that ! !
🙂😎👍
I kinda liked the transparent links
That's cool as hell
Interesting. Regarding the price of the links vs the metal maxim belt they are trying to replace, I wonder how often the maxim belts are retained and reused, aside from the mentioned rust issues I don't see a belt actually wearing out which if that is the case would negate much of the cost savings of the plastic belt.
The links, if retained, are also reusable. That would be easy in the case of a vehicle mount, fixed position, or training. Downside of the solid belts is that if a single link is damaged the whole belt need repair or replacement. With disintegrating belts, a single bad link is just discarded.
Cost should almost never be first priority. Weight savings and convenience trump cost and potential reuse.
The standard steel belts rust when wet - causing the gun to jam.
I know textrons case telescoped stuff was supposedly going to use some sort of polymer
Looks like good weight savings
Maxim 'Plinkov".... Company Director. With a last name of Plink...ov he probably knew he'd be in this industry from a very young age....
Imagine the weight saving of using these and polymer ammo compared to steel links and steel/brass ammo
Brilliant! This needs to be adopted for 7.62X51 NATO pattern MGs.
This is a game changer
I saw that the US military was also looking to change their round casings from brass to polymer and also switch weapon barrels over to the newer 6.8 for rifles and light machine guns, i even think they want to switch the medium machine guns from 240 to a 6.8 round(not 100% sure). I know they want the polymer casings to reduce weight and the 6.8 round for average infantry so they can be more effective at distance compared to enemy rounds, especially for island hoping in the Pacific
Nah they ditched that for a more traditional but weird rifle cartridge.
I always assume issues will come to light at a later time but the benefit of weight reduction is to good not to seriously test this.
Is this a re-upload? I'm sure I've seen this video before and I'm sure it was uploaded years ago not 9 months ago.
No this is the first time I posted that one!
Looks like they just fixed the only rubbish thing about PKs. Awesome.
That dangling non disintegrating link belt can probably get caught on a ton of things while moving. They’re really only good for vehicle mounted roles.
True game changer belt.
Futuristic idea and valuable mod.
Stay strong Ukraine troops. I respectfuly salute you.
I wanna see extended UV exposure tests
I reckon they should make the belt fix between 5-25 so that it is easier to collect and reuse
Cool!!! What a way to think outside the box! God Bless & Glory to Ukraine along with all it's heroes!!!
Three times lighter! We used to say 'One third of the weight' which sounds more 'grown up' to me.
Pretty cool and less heavy
Finally a combination of the two things that try and imbed themselves in me links and Lego
hahaha
Yeah but they will probably cause the receiver to overheat faster since the links remove quite a bit of heat
The links wouldn't actually do much re: heat transfer, the majority of the heat is in the barrel/chamber area, not the feed tray and top cover, and the contact points between the links and the feed tray/top cover are very small, further negating any possible heat transfer. In my experience with an MG-3, those non-disintegrating belts are no help at all in heat transfer, so why would a PKM be any different?
@@lc4biker good question get me both of them and I'll find out 😉
genious!
can i print it?
This is the true game changer!
All of the most cutting edge advancements in armaments come during wartime...Nothing has changed
Bravo
Innovative in many ways, and the weight saving is excellent. Lack of corrosion also a plus point, but yet more disposable plastic waste spread all over the landscape. (And yes, I realise that there are slightly more important things to worry about in Ukraine right now, so please, no daft smart arse comments!) Still, long term....we kill and pollute. Interesting product to see in action.
3:48 - dry ice. Aha.. that explains why the ammunition is being stored in a pot (probably a Dewar flask). And why the rounds are white!
Genius. Eco friendly, light weight. What's not to like?
They never really let loose with any long sustained strings. Issue?
The real problem for this is that unlike West ammunition for belt fed guns which comes in the case with the belt ready to go, but in the case of the former soviet Union nations the bulk of the ammunition delivers to troops in the combat zones is delivered losses in small cardboard boxes in a case to be loaded by troops themselves,
This is unimaginable in fighting conditions having to collect used links as even if new is available the reality would be there would be less links than rounds,
This is where a steel permanently connected belt is a far better option and is much easier to load in the field,
Look at any Detailed combat vid and troops are basically shooting and going to a resupply area and reloading there own mags and belts, and unlike Western troops they are definitely not dropping there mags they are keeping them.
Clever buggars. HOW much weight will that save? Lots probly. Cheers m8.
The guy said it in the video, 1kg per load (mass of the plastic links is 0.5kg instead of 1.5kg).
If it weighs less then they can carry more bullets!!! :Military101: 🙃
yes and belive me u gonna do it and smile because u know u dont run out of ammo mid firefight, machine guns are dominating!
How about using polymer cased ammonition plus the polymer made disintergrating links.That would've save a lot of weight plus instead of using metal ammonition,they could've used ammo nutsacks made out of leighter Materials.
Cool
Does this come in .223?
Given there's FN Minimi and M249 in Ukraine, they might develop links for them.
I know this is a bit older video, but if only they could make them completely biodegradable and leave behind sunflower seeds, or some other flower or even something edible like strawberry seeds as then, years after this people could point to a giant flower plot or strawberry field and be like "and that's where I held off the Russians with my PKM, and now where I get my strawberries from"
Or just instead of brass littering an old battlefield, there's just rows and rows of poppies, sunflowers, strawberries or some other fruit/vegetable
Would be the ideal wouldn't it.
@@TheArmourersBench really would... Also strawberry seeds are so small they'd fit perfectly in the areas between the links, especially since there are some biodegradable plastics
Or even just like when the links break they dropped a seed...
Would make the scars of war that teensy bit better... And feed the local wildlife or refugees or returning citizens if it's a food seed, else it'd just hide all the actual brass casings from being a reminder of what happened in that spot
As long as they found a plastic that won't melt when feeding into a heavily-used/overheating mg, then I guess all is good?
Not to mention is it strong enough to not lose half the belt in combat conditions.
They were way cheaper than they are now. In Ukrainian reality makes you doubt whether you need this plastic belt or not. And their predator works better with regular pkm belts. Tested ourselves :)
Btw would be interesting to watch your video on rarog’s project predator. Price/quality is insane.
Could be a weight saver.
As I remember A-10 cannon also use plastic belts to reduce weight...
That seems unlikely since the ammo feed mechanism in the A-10 is entirely linkless
from a practical standpoint these are great. less weight and capable of being just as effective as metal links. however the environmental cost will be greater. we already have enough issues with plastic, this just adds another one.
they are on war for survival, do they have to care on environment as they shell it?
It's a minor concern and the only downside I see to these, thst's all.
@@fistofthetiger1591 valid point though.
Sig should license for ngsw ar
why didn't I think of that....
Cool but really impractical in the long run unless they can keep up with the demand and the expenses of it
Well that sucks, wont be the same sound making brass angels with plastic link without metal.