FP200 Gold Cable + Flames = ?
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- čas přidán 29. 08. 2024
- A look at some Prysmian FP200 Gold cable including what happens when flames are applied to it. This example is 2 core, 1.5mm².
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"people with nothing better to do" says the man burning cables with a blow torch in his back yard...
on a serious note, another very interesting video, as expected
I'd say the videos cause a larger overall pleasure coefficient than the fan with a parachute. (but to be fair, the basic idea did give colin furze a head start on his bike...)
Testing cables serves more purpose, than flying around on that ridicules parachute with an engine. Also it odd that’s it’s legal to do that, but the kids that ride their motocross bikes across the field outside my back garden do so illegally.
Andrew Stevens yes I agree, it was just a bemused observation
Mike Trump yes I am a big JW fan, it was just a bemused observation, no need to get worked up
Paragliding is aviation for the poor, not the rich 😂
Impressive, I didn't expect the inner wires to be intact after this much heat
NO ONE expects the Spanish...oh wait...
For those who asked 'where are these used?'.One function you'll find these or MIMS used for in high rise buildings is the power to the stairwell pressurisation fans. In the event of a fire those fans keep a positive air pressure in the stairwells to prevent them becoming a chimney.
I live in a flat in a country house that was previously used as a hospital. Our fire alarm system is done in a 1970s version of this FP200 stuff. Ours seems less rigid and has a white sheath. 50% of our communal electrics and flat submains are the 60 year old pyro cables fitted for the hospital and it's still going strong! I expect it to outlast all the modern T+E stuff we've added since.
I work with this stuff every day, as a fire alarm engineer. Its nice to strip and the cores smell really nice. If you know, you know.
Much prefer ventcroft fp
Have gone through lorry loads of prysmian and draka, Cleveland as well I think 🤔
Prysmian FP200 for me every time. Strips easily and always consistent.
Smells like candy
Deadpan delivery of, "now that annoying peice of junk has flown away..." lmao :D
I laughed :D
@@ZocXer99 ...me too. This guy is sooo deadpan
Big Clive heard about some pink stuff and flames and flew in to investigate.
Ha ha.. Big Clive flying over checking up on your antics 😂 great video JW always wanted to see how FP200 performed under fire conditions. I should imagine the conductor size needs increasing on FP cable due to heat causing higher resistivity in copper.. Or maybe it's negligible?
@@muzikman2008 I'd say unless it's called on for heavy duty applications (like maybe fire ventilation fans) then it'd be negligible, but you raise an interesting point.
I remember the old heat proof Pyro seals with the lead based glass sealing compound, specifically for fire shutters and vent fans.
FP200 was made by Pirelli it was made to withstand temperatures as low as -50c and as high as +1000c , it was classed as arctic cable and was available in Red white Blue and orange. The conductors were wrapped in a thin light blue foil then wrapped in aluminium then the outer sheath. It was mainly used for fire alarms systems emergency lighting In hospitals nursing homes and schools and other public buildings. We used the white version for emergency lighting in a new nursing home back in the early to mid nineties. The fire alarm system was installed by a different company and they use the Red version. These days FP200 is a little different but still a fantastic cable.
I always fly my microlite over your garage coz there always seems to be great thermals
I imagine the puffing up of the outer sheath acts to further thermally insulate the inner cores, a type of carbon aerogel where it gets too hot.
Yes, it's called an "intumescent" material.
Not to be confused with "tumescence" XD
@@BenjaminEsposti like the pillows and pads only different manufacturing materials
wow, I didn’t know that it can tolerate so much heat and such a direct sharp flame, thanks John
It’s a great cable. I use it regularly in wood sheds and buildings mostly for lighting circuits. Haven’t given it the blow torch test yet so interesting to see what happens.
I can imagine Johns nextdoor neighbours looking through the curtains and saying, ”Come and look what Johns up to now Joyce. He’s trying to set fire to something today”😁 🔥 On a serious note though, it was a very informative video👍
I was expecting a youth on a 'borrowed' moped.
Excellent video again John. I was very surprised at the outcome. It really does its job. A fire alarm would hold its integrity long enough for it to do its job in an emergency. I’m very old school and close to retirement and like a lot of other guys,I haven’t been impressed with modern day plastic products,. This product has earned my total respect. Yes, I know it’s been going for donkeys years, but I’m impressed. I still mourn the disappearance of Pyro cable (my favourite) and most of the engineering side to this industry. It would be interesting to see how this would stand up to a hostile environment/ atmosphere? Hammer blows, chemicals, corrosion, acid, alkalis, pressure and other physical abuse?
Thanks for your time John. Your videos are brilliant!
Interesting, but one of the most important considerations is the correct installation of this cable. In fire alarm installations the sounder circuits need to operate for a period of at least 30 minutes (detection circuits can fail at any time as they have done their job. FP200 will burn through but it becomes rigid and self supporting if installed correctly with the right spacing and the correct saddles, clips and or cable ties. I have witnessed this cable installed without be fixed above voids and tied to the underside of cable tray with nylon tie, it would fall off and fail. Also, consider the glands and boxes fitted.
Impressive stuff. I do commercial electrical and haven't seen wire like that here in the US but fire protection is it's own animal here and I just get annoyed when I see their low voltage red alarm wire haphazardly run through ceilings and usually in the way. It's basically a little better than cat5 just has a fireproof plastic.
I worked beside an American electrician that moved here for a while, all the cables are different stateside.
I had a look at the fire alarm panels when I was staying in America and they are totally different too, good and trouble come to mind
Another great video JW. I have learnt so much from your videos so thank you.
So basically the outer (red) insulation is designed to be intumescent so as to shield the inner conductors from the intense heat. Pretty clever as I have never seen such a cable until now, though it makes perfect sense.
Thanks for the great video John 👍
The old pyro needs special tools to strip it, have fitted about 100 miles of fp200 over the years myself, easy to strip.. lots of powder coated copper p clips
Grant Rennie pyro needs banning absolutely the worst of cables around
Pretty amazing stuff! Cheers JW 😁🙂
I remember when this cable when it first came out nightmare to strip and needed ferrules on ends to stop it shorting out due to very soft insulation being cut by alli core.looks like its come on a lot since then .nice vid JW.
OK, I have to
say a couple
of things about
this vid. They are:
(1) Would it be possible to get a small wood-based fire going and hold a section of this cable over the fire? On the end of it, put a 60w lightbulb, and on the supply end, ballast it with a 3kW water heater so that if the cable does internally short, it will not make a massive fault current as it lets loose. The water heater should not become too warm as it will be restricted by the 60w bulb, but if the cable internally shorts out, you will know because the water heater will go full bore. Then...... repeat with a standard piece of 2.5mm twin and earth 6242Y.
(2) That device being flown in the sky is what's called a paramotor. Have a look on here for paramotoring vids and you will see that they actually are an intersting way of getting about! Not many people could afford a light aircraft (and associated running costs, maintenance, flight lessons and pilots licence) but for a few thousand, you can take flight with a paramotor. :D I know if I had the coin, I would like to say to my electrical stickist one afternoon: _"I will be there by 2pm to collect my order, and by the way.... keep a watch on the sky, I am coming in by air! "_ :D
That would be TASTY.
That would put a whole new meaning on "Flying Sparks" :D
Thanxx for shkwing,
-Waynes' Electrical.
_27th February 2019, 01.55_
Yo BoomBox is that you?
Closeish to where I suspect he (JW) lives there are many people who could easily afford an aircraft of some sort, look up Sandbanks, Poole. If you ain't got a few mil you are not getting a house.
Hiya. _"BoomBoxDeluxe"_ is now a *Wayne's Electrical* brand.
Pop over soon, watch vids & *_BAAANG_* the subscribe button. :D
-Wayne's Electrical.
_27th February 2019, 19.00_
Just don't fly paramotors over sewage lagoons just in case..... you know...
Also John the amount the small aircraft was annoying you had me laughing out loud.
Always found great satisfaction doing a job in Pyro.
I use this for lighting installations at work for our lights, led panels in a ceiling grid. The rigid ness of the cable makes it nicer to do a neat job
I had to wire the apparatus room of a Soho facilities house in 1983 with that stuff and actually routing 83 circuits into a single power cabinet wasn't the most fun I've ever had. It has quite a large turn radius because of the aluminium cladding and so routing it in a confined space without damaging it can be quite a challenge. Having said that, it out performs a lot of other fireproof power cables.
It does require (or did) a plastic ferrule end cap, to prevent the insulation of the inner conductors from being damaged by the sharp edge of the aluminium sheath at the strip point.
Paramotors cost less than motorbikes, and are approximately 863.7 times more fun.
Oh my god im getting one 😮😮😮
Installation of MIMS is a lost art form.
Did them in college, ripped out off buildings but never installed it on site. The stuff seemed like a real pain to install but there's no denying it's quality and the nice finish it has
The flying contraption! I died.
"It's just some nutter ..." hahahaha, JW you kill me man.
Electrical standards in England are quite impressive. Here in the US, I have always purchased metal power strips. They're uncommon now but they give me peace of mind. I am never happy when I see plastic power strips.
UK. England doesn't have its own electrical regulations. 🙂
The CPC is tinned to stop the galvanic reaction between the aluminium sheath and the copper conductor.
Great video. I was wondering about FP200 for some time now.
When it comes to flying contraptions it seems that the smaller they are the more noise they make. I often get a posse of five or six of these paramotors flying directly overhead in fine weather but not usually at this time of year.
That was a paramotor john short take off and landing ultimate freedom I would love one. I once did a tandem flight it was both the most fun I've ever had and the most scared I've been I would definitely recommend. Good video as always!
Aerial contraptions RULE :-)
Thank you John . Very impressive and much easier to terminate than pyro cable .
Hi John. Thanks for all your videos. U r very knowledgable. Can we run fire alarm cables in steel trunking with other cables?
Or do we have to keep them separate?
Give and take Mr Ward. Heard worse coming from people's front and back gardens on a Sunday morning..try a smile now and again.. might help..
heres the irony of FP200 it may still work after being burned BUT because its sheath is damaged and therefore no longer offers mechanical protection it is no longer valid , MICC would simply need a scrape of the dead PVC and its back in service , most electricians cant do pyro (as we call it ) these days they can barely terminate a 2.5mm SWA without taking ten hours and damaging the sheath on the conductors !!!
i went to a school kitchen years ago that we had wired in MICC , we scraped the burned sheath put on new fittings and away it went , imagine the time out with FP200 ???
Another excellent demonstration, and agree with you about that noise, the "angry wasp" racket that small-cc engines with insufficient or zero muffling make is quite possibly the most annoying sound in the known Universe! Especially when they are stopping and starting constantly like petrol strimmers, chainsaws etc. :)
Excellent video. Are there special junction boxes for this type of installation too? Or perhaps high temperature resistant terminal blocks to connect them? I only ever see the red cable going from place to place, but terminated in what seem regular PVC junction boxes. I wonder if there are special requirements for the junction boxes too.
Joints are supposed to be done with ceramic terminal blocks. Ideally no joints at all, just a single unbroken cable from one point to another (such as a fire panel to a detector).
Another good video John
flying lawnmower! love it.
You should set up a comparison of different cables (sy, pvc twin, swa, pyro etc) and see how the different fixed installation cables can handle a fire, I reckon swa would hold up pretty well since there's thick layers of pvc and the armoured wires are tightly packed, you could lay them all out over some hot coals and see which wires short out our open circuit first
Have done some of those already, czcams.com/video/3hyN3NOmqGo/video.html
Hello John, your videos are always useful.
What I wanted to ask is what do you use to strip a long length of fp 200 ,say where it enters a dist board before terminating.
I very found a lot of strippers don't work well longitudinally and you end up pulling on the earth to strip the cable.
Hello JW, I think the third wire which is bare is for noise protection. The voltage in addressable fire alarm systems is 24 volt and the communication between panel and devices is digital ( power and data are simultaneously on 2 wires ). The system works without the third wire but since most of times these cables are near 230 volt cables, they like to be sure that there will be no noise and no interference on the operation of fire alarm system.
Flying the angry wasp looks like more fun than arson with a blowtorch.
Great video thank you
Thought you might have put a megger on the cable before you cut it up?
You could also get the cheapest, Chinesium fire cable made of thin, iron wire and colored napalm. Okay, I seriously doubt that would pass a building inspection. Well, I doubt a flame would be applied, but the inspector would know something would be a miss when the cable spontaneously combusts for absolutely no reason at all.
Just replace the proper electrical wiring with pretty looking fuse wires for explosives (the burning kind, not electrical modern fancy stuff), the fire if it starts will make it faster to the non-functioning fire alarm possibly setting fire to more stuff along the way.
What's the point of the aluminum liner in the outer jacket? Flame resistance, mechanical protection, grounding, EMI shielding?
All of those things, I would guess.
Actually, I think it is there primarily for Flame/Fire Resistance, and for mechanical protection as secondary property. It is not thick enough to provide significant mechanical protection, although it is clearly strong enough to protect against light knocks. It's not there to provide grounding, this is the purpose of the uninsulated conductor within the cable. It is not there to provide EMI shielding as there is no way to maintain the shielding through junction boxes etc., and there is no requirement for these cables to provide EMI shielding.
Excellent video thanks. Just an idea you could make a video about the amount of smoke produced when standard pvc pvc cables burn versus lsf type.
czcams.com/video/3hyN3NOmqGo/video.html
Pyro.
I know it so well.
Not only the regular orange clad pyro but red?
Oh yes, only the top clients specified red Pyro such as Halifax Building Society head office and Yorkshire Bank head office in the centre of Leeds.
Yes, worked on all of those.
Sadly AFA Minerva is no longer a thing.
In fact, it's an absolute no-thing...
...groan...
Now that is rather impressive, in particular the inner cores remaining almost untouched after that level of heat. What is the mandated use of this other than fire alarm circuits ?
Disabled refuge alarms
:) brilliant video. It would be interesting to note the resistance values of a length before and after the flambé treatment.
I used some of this recently and found when it's stripped it's got a weird smell, like a sickly sweet, almond smell
Almond smell = cyanide. Or perhaps not.
John Ward Hmm, never say never. worryingly we’ve been getting washing machine motor brushes from our supplier that emit a similar odour, assuming they buy in from China you never know what you’re getting!
Here, across the Irish Sea, it mean Semtex.
Canadian electrician here just curious is this used in commercial and residential environments? Is it run in a conduit or tubing of some sort?
Not necessarily, it would generally only be put in tubing/conduit if it was required to be hidden, otherwise it would just be fixed naked (as it were) to the wall.
Almost exclusively commercial as most residences don't have the types of systems they're used with, which are the ones that have many fire detectors, call the fire brigade automatically, switch the building aircon into exhaust-only mode, etc.
BS5839 calls for additional mechanical protection (conduit/trunking) for FP cabling installed below 2 meters unless it's a relatively benign environment (like an office) where it's not likely to be easily damaged
The flying man just wanted to be in the video!
The man identifying as an attack helicopter just wanted to be in the video!
Paramotors are actually one of the most cost effective ways to get into the sky! :-)
Got a knipex twiddly snipper as I call it, one turn and a bend and the alumin(i)um sleeve is off
Does this cable cope with high load better than regular PVC? In a hypothetical scenario of course!
No, it's only rated for 70C in normal use, same as ordinary PVC insulated cable.
the outer covering looks like it put its self out . is that sort sort of halogen plastic
It is useful to test the fire behaviour of materials you install so you can be confordent that it will behave as documented / certified.
Just out of interest JW, how much is this stuff and where is it made? Looks proper decent cable.
Size in the video (2x1.5mm) is in the area of £1 per metre. Larger sizes and those with more conductors are more. Not sure where it's manufactured, it's a Prysmian product, they have factories in the UK and many other countries.
@@jwflame ..thanks, very interesting
That Campingaz cylinder is in a state, when did you buy it, 1982?
Will you ever Bin that Globe mate good vid as usual though
Did you forget to mention when installing make sure to use a ferrule.
They allege that you don't need them now... But I tend to use them if I can source them
@@TheChipmunk2008 How things have changed.
The first iteration of FP200 had rubber insulation for the cores and would tend to tension split if coming into contact with the sharpish edge of the aluminium sheath hence the use of ferrules, with later iteration using plastic core insulation the ferrules were deemed unnecessary
Ferrules haven't been required for more than 20 years.
@@jwflame I was made medically retired 23 years ago and never really kept up with what was happening in the electrical field. Just one of many reasons i enjoy your channel.
lol John you should have a go a paramotoring
I thought the noise was a leaf blower.
That "Nutter" could be Colin Furze... A CZcamsr much like yourself!
No, it wasn't a household fan run from a moped engine.
Big Clive?
Ah, your hobbies are ok, but everyone else should be ridiculed? Kind of spoilt the value of your presentation.
6:55 Huh, that is a dreadful noise.
Fire Performance there is STILL ONLY MICC which will survive in the event of a REAL fire where water from burst pipes and mechanical shock movement will inevitably happen when internal structures within the environment start to move as will happen in a REAL fire. Silicon ceramifiable cables will NOT survive a REAL fire they are only meant to be used with Addressable intelligent fire panels and detectors. Clipping is important and some times clips are PVC coated with some unscrupulous manufacturers using outer sheath PVC and NOT LSF....Shame..................
Ventcroft is far nicer fp
Annoying piece of junk 😂😂😂, we used to get some twat who flew his stupid motorised kite over us and circle, its an invasion of your privacy and that ridiculous buzz......
Back to the cable, years ago we had little plastic or nylon ferrules that you inserted into the cut end of the outer sheath to prevent the hard sheath chaffing into the soft inner core insulation, then as you said, a normal flex gland to hold the cable into the terminal box.
That annoying piece of junk happens to be a paramotor. And its within the reach of anyone as its not an expensive sport. However, if we want to talk about annoying I would say its your commentary. Get a life dude. Best regards, "an annoying flying thing" pilot.