Russell M. Nelson's Miracle Stories | LDS Discussions 47 | Ep. 1832
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- čas přidán 23. 07. 2024
- In this captivating episode with John Dehlin, Nemo @NEMOTHEMORMON, and Mike on LDS Discussions, we delve into the controversial miracle stories of Mormon Prophet Russell M. Nelson. What are the implications for a spokesperson of God to fabricate and exaggerate, including (or especially) in regards to revelation like the November 2015 LGBT exclusionary policy. Join us in unraveling the motivations behind these distortions and why they hold significant consequences. How do these accounts shape our understanding of religious leadership?
Episode Show Notes: www.mormonstories.org/portfol...
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Chapters
00:00:00 Introduction
00:08:00 The miracles stories of Russell M. Nelson
00:10:50 Russell Nelson and the “Woman wearing a large hat”
00:19:30 The miraculous woman wearing a large hat
00:22:30 The problem with making up miracles
00:32:00 Russell M. Nelson’s miracle on Mozambique
00:34:00 More contemporaneous details about the attack
00:36:00 Wendy Nelson tells the story a few months later
00:41:20 Russell Nelson takes the baton from Wendy and runs with it
00:49:00 Russell M. Nelsons’ spiraling flight of death
00:52:10 What lesson Russell Nelson took from this story in 1979
01:00:00 Compare Nelson’s 1992 retelling to his 2011 video
01:05:10 The story becomes exaggerated over the years and that causes problems
01:18:40 How a precautionary landing becomes a miraculous one
01:23:45 Russell M. Nelson and the November 2015 LGBT revelation
01:43:00 Motivations for making the November 15 policy a revelation from God
01:48:50 Why these miracle fabrications and exaggerations matter
01:55:30 Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me four times, shame on us.
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My Grandma told me to avoid anyone who claimed to hear God. I think its pretty good advice.
Me too, I never understand why they say that they can hear from HIM, I mean how, they can not explain.
That's any religious person. Either they're speaking the truth and they believe it, or they're hypocrites.
Excellent advice. Talk to experienced police officers and ask them how many times criminals said God told them to do it.
@@slavbarbieYou forgot the third (most likely) explanation: mental illness
@@sme91158 seriously it's such an interesting question to me. When is it "normal" delusion, religion, and extreme ideas, and when does it cross into psychosis? Schizophrenia is a degenerative disease. The functioning deteriorates. But you also have fully functioning people believing the wildest nonsense.
This episode was The Full Nelson. That should become a Netflix series! Great show, guys!
Love your T-shirt RFM!
Scary vibe... bitter prophet N
"full nelson" being an actual hold
Funny! Thank you
Oh how scarey.Does Delta have an air port.
My mother was diagnosed psychotic and lying was one of her favorite personality traits. I have learned not to trust anyone who lies to me or anyone. 😢I am so sorry to know this.😢
Just joined! Can’t believe all four of you in one place! For the sake of exmo, don’t travel onboard one plane together - the loss would be too much 😂
I rescinded my membership after 64yrs. Do not believe in their fabricated and not common sense teachings. So glad I did
how easy or difficult was it?
This is so cathartic for me, when I was little I HATED the airplane story. It gave me waaaaay too much anxiety and I was angry and felt frustrated because I knew I would be crying like the woman but for some reason I was supposed to be peaceful. As a kid I felt like it was kind of an a-hole story from him.
I can see how that must have been crazy for you! And you are right - nobody is gonna feel peaceful as their airplane is spiraling down to the earth. My first reaction was that the woman in this story is not Mormon and will be going to hell or the lowest stage of Mormon heaven. Utterly disgraceful.
right i always could feel a hint of narcissism
I hope the four of you do more Podcasts together this has been so hilarious and informative. Thank you all.
Amen. These 4 together are GOLD
We shall call them, “The Quad”
@@tysonh424 The Q?
😂
Mike is so effing brilliant.
But John is so effing brilliant.
RFM is so effing brilliant!
And Nemo is brilliant....
I think you see where this is going.
Please keep doing these! So valuable!
Being an airline pilot, Elder Dumbdorph (sp?) probably rolled his eyes and bit his lip when he heard Rusty tell this fib.
“Rusty” hahahaha!!
Working with Thoracic Surgeons I can say that the narcissism of these people is typical
AMEN
That's basically any Surgeon. I will never forget how accurately the T.V. show ER was in its portrayal of the abuse Surgical Residents must endure and they carry on the cycle of abuse.
I think we all know why Uchtdorf was demoted now… As a pilot he probably called bullshit on the plane story and Nelson had to get rid of him 😂😂😂😂
I fly too. The story is nonsense.
Great insight! You may be right!
@@karencoates2487 it didn’t happen as told. No way
@@t-pain3343 isn't the death spiral almost impossible to recover from?
@@SilentThundersnow in a twin engine yes. There are no spin certified twins. Especiallly if you get into a fully developed spin.
my cousin's husband was recently approached by missionaries and ended up inviting them over to do the discussions because his wife is LDS... except, none of that family has even been through the temple or even knows about anything they are agreeing to. It makes me sad that saying anything would ostracize me further from my family. I got asked by a family member how it was that I came back to the church after I left... and I don't know how to tell them that I left before still believing and now I don't believe.. It took going through BYU Pathways and attempting to earn an Associates at BYU-Idaho that broke my shelf... I learned so much about what you are all talking about here. I'm still technically enrolled, but my ecclesiastical endorsement is expired again so I won't be going back.. I got a certificate in Social Media Marketing and what I really learned is that the church is really just PR for the previous Prophets and Marketing for the current one. It's not common for the PR to be happening while still a prophet, but as he's 99, I don't imagine it will be long. And with all of Nemo's sleuthing about the Boy's Club and all the contributions from everyone on this stream, I do hope more people have their eyes open to the truth.
I believe I’ve listened to every single MS episode…and THIS episode, gentlemen, is my favorite! And to have all four of you together - EPIC! 👏🏻👏🏻
Congratulations on the great channel. I live in the northeast of Brazil. The LDS Church caused my parents to lose their home in 1996 for putting in a home teacher who robbed us all. The local church preferred to remain silent and pretend that nothing happened. I was a Mormon until 2019 and when I saw Carlos Martins (connected to the Stake) laughing at the deaths of Covid victims, I felt disgusted at being a Mormon. We never got our house back.
Sorry to hear your family suffered because of the Mormon cult. Who is Carlos Martins? Também falo português se prefere.
Wow that is awful that you lost your house. So how did that go down? You don’t have to answer if it’s too personal. ❤️ I’m simply curious.
I'm so sorry about the loss of your house. There's clearly no discernment among the leaders. I was so confused when I saw that myself. It all makes sense now. I also saw a lack of concern for health and safety with covid, but what you witnessed sounds pretty horrifying.
Is Carlos Martins the one who was always coming to BYU Hawaii? We had an elder martins from Brazil there often and he was practically worshipped there
Ahhh, Carlos W. Martins, the founder of Wizard English Schools in Brazil and was a Mission and Stake president. He is involved in franchises and was a pandemic denier of sorts. He worked in the Bolsonaro government.
Surgical skills are absolutely not related to what religious book a surgeon reads. I’ve seen good and bad from all walks of life.
This reminds me of when I worked in an in-bound call center helping clients with finance, leasing and billing concerns. My boss told the team in a meeting a tidbit of wisdom his father once gave him. His father told his son a lie is not really a lie if you start to believe it yourself.
What were you lying to the clients about?
My favorite part: if these miracles didn’t happen, then your greatest accomplishment is being an old dude who outlived his peers! I was laughing so hard! John is so funny and direct!!!
Rock on John!
MSP is taking off like never before because we need all you have to offer.
Keep the episodes coming, they are lifelines to recovery and growth for many people.
It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode when J.Peterman buys Kramer's experiences so that he can have Elaine write then into Peterman's biography
And then Kramer had no good stories to tell because they were copyrighted by J. Peterman.
Great comment.
Multi-engine aircraft are not spin certified. Recovering from a spin is very unlikely. Exploding engines don’t put a plane into a spin…. They just catch fire or explode like the one engine did not long ago at Denver on a commercial flight. The pilots just declared an emergency and circled back for a single-engine approach. There would be a very visible and highly detailed report easily retrievable.
I love the part when he says “the pilot started the other engine and we were fine” as if the other engine wasn’t running already.
RFM you are too funny and I totally get the Frank Burns reference and laughed out loud.
Thank you Gentlemen, I love you All
Yus!!!!
Impressive sleuthing and convincing evidence of President Nelson's disappointing failures to abide by the church's article of faith: "We believe in being honest , true..."
One of the grossest thing about the Nelson flight of death though, is that he was going down with some other people in a charter plate to give an address at St. George. He knew the woman that was screaming, she was part of his entourage, presumably a faithful latter day saint. Yet he remarks that the gospel gives you peace
About the "revelation" to not baptize children of a gay parent... RMN while on a church paid for vacation on the island of Kuai in church owned luxury accommodations, gave a talk some time before the official pronouncement, to the local people and said the same thing about how we should not baptize children of a gay parent. It looked like, in hind sight, to be the trial balloon for a policy change. (My former, deceased wife was in the audience and heard this herself.)
I totally believe you!
For the airplane story, he says he was at peace knowing that he and his sweetheart were sealed to each other for eternity. He should have made it plural. Because he is sealed in Eternal Marriage with two women. He and his sweethearts will be together forever.
Oh wow really??? That is nuts!!!
But when this event happened, it was prior to his marriage to Wendy.
That is true. Good point.
However, when he was telling it, he was married to Wendy. My main point is I wish apostles and prophets would publicly acknowledge that the church practices eternal polygamy.@@SimplyT71
Did his first wife die
I met Katie, the granddaughter of the woman in the hat, at the Atlanta thrive event a couple of years ago. She’s definitely exmo.
I love RFM's sarcasm!
The FAA requires full and detailed reports on this type of thing.
I'm also a Boomer and just found a new channel/Podcast to watch! Tyvm. Love all you guys.
I love the trailer! I will say as a catholic i understand we can be a high religion but at the very least there is space for critique and pushing back, and can be as involved or as little involved as we want. Mormonism does not seem that way at all from how this channel and others speak about it.
It is not! You are correct.
Julie, The Catholic church and the Mormon church have been responsible for more child sex abuse than probably any other two organizations to have ever existed. Nothing to do with a possible creator.
Absolutely!!!!!!! :)
I mean, I have friends that are Mormon and are less involved but they're kind of shamed for it by their family and church
You can push back, but you’ll be pushed out.
"dated them, dunked them, and dropped them" That's it. That's the entire missionary effort of the church.
Don't forget anointed with oil
On my mission, Rusty came to talk to the missionaries. As I was passing by while he was talking to some other missionaries in line to talk to him - as I was only trying to get out of the chapel to get to the bathroom - Rusty grabbed hold of my hand and started shaking it and shaking it as he asked me where I was from, how long I've been on my mission, thanking me for doing the Lord's work, yadda yadda yeadda, and shaking my hand. As if this was supposed to be memorable and special for me to meet him. I wanted him to let go of my hand. His gaze and the way he was... keeping hold of my hand... and talking to me gave me the creeps. It was cringe, awkward, icky. I guess I was supposed to be honored to meet an apostle. I was impressed... in all the wrong ways.
You had access to your own inner self, that's rare in a tbm. Glad you listened to it
This is unreal - I don’t know if I can handle this hahaha because it is SO ABSURD!!! I am fluctuating between cringing and outright laughter. As a result, I think I have lost touch with reality and it will take me all weekend to recover from my psychosis. OH MAN!!!!!! 😜
There were also stories of people in the church claiming Joseph Smith would come back from the dead just like Jesus Christ. The sense of disbelief surrounding the martyrdom of JS was so great even Brigham Young thought the next president should not be named since JS would likely be a resurrected being.
That’s a myth dude
When I was getting my pilot’s license and I learned about the legal requirements for airlines and pilots concerning reporting accidents I became curious to look for the report of the alleged accident. His description in the Mormon message didn’t make sense to me given my understanding of aerodynamics and aircraft mechanics. After a lot of searching I realized it was a lie. Feathering the engine (the plane has two) means that the pilot purposefully shut off the engine then set the propeller at an angle to limit drag from the air. The plane is designed to be able to fly on one engine. Needless to say discovering this helped me come to realize the truth. It’s great to see this platform spreading the truth.
“Burnin’ down the house”! Thank you for exposing this BS! 😊
Just a bigger example of how the church isn’t troubled by ruining the ONE. Bc a potential flock means more tithe paying members.
Opposite Jesus. He cared about that lady’s soul, but Rusty didn’t.
These people must truly be athiests. I can't beleive at 99 years old he has no fear of his soul and telling lies.
I would guess most of these guys truly are. Most televangelist types as well.
@@bendyrland7213 2nd anointing frees them from accountability for their sins .. LOL .. he thinks he won’t be accountable for his sins! ROFL .. he has a surprise coming.
Even if he was calm/ where was his concern for all the other people who are going to die 😢
Freemasons aren't Christian.
@@jeannemarie5908That's a manmade lie.
Im sad that my previous religious culture was of toxicity and trauma. It’s of zero accountability or allowance of openly questioning our faith. This is often reflected in horrible marriages and many, many broken families!
Russell M Nelson has always reminded me of the character from Beauty and the Beast who runs the insane asylum, I think it was the cheeks. I noticed it as a kid in the 90s, I mentioned it to my mom recently, and she told me it was a terrible thing to say 😂 but I'm now seeing a lot more similarities between a guy who runs an asylum and is willing to lie and deceive for money...
Mormonism is just so CREEPY 👀
In what universe would a nurse ask that? She might have asked "where did you go to school?" or something But the way they positioned the question is just weird...
I'm living for the snark. Absolutely valid points with a comedic delivery. I LOVE it!!
It’s nice to see all of you collaborating! Thank you for your work.
I love how the plane is described as a proeller driven aircraft. Yet the sounds in the video clip are of a jet liner.
You know it's a great episode when we get a "what the fetch" from John, nice
Lol!
I understood the Frank Burns reference, and it was apt!
When I heard about the church's 'revelation' about how children of gay parents would be punished, it validated my leaving the church years ago because God & Jesus would NEVER hurt children like that! Such discrimination against kids with gay parents so the babies can't be blessed, kids can't be baptized & the boys can't have the priesthood! Besides the heart-break this would cause, these children would be ostracized & feel a lot of shame. Jesus' harshest condemnation was for people who hurt children. He said it would be better for them (child abusers) to have a millstone tied around their neck & be thrown into the sea! Hurting them is worse than adultery, rape, fornication, etc. These old men think their small-minded, racist, misogynistic, conservative thoughts are revelation! It's bullshit.
I think that "point of no return" phrase is a great metaphor for the die hard TBMs because they may figure they've already committed so much (esp. those who've made the blood oaths), they ought to see it through the rest of their lives rather than to start over. I think both choices, leaving or staying with doubts, require courage. Both usually involve compromised relationships.
Sounds like they are living the sunk cost fallacy.
RFM deserves more BOOMER awards! He is one of the good ones❤
Yes sir. Love the M.A.S.H references
“Frank Burns eats worms.” always comes to my immature mind. 😂
I laughed when I saw that interaction, this episode was quite funny with the back and forth banter
I may be an older millenial, but I got the Frank Burns reference. RFM, would you say Nelson was like the TV Frank Burns, or more like the movie Frank Burns?
This episode is my favorite so far, you are all so funny with the banter back and forth. Really enjoyed it! 10/10 (and of course valuable information as well!)
Most TBMs don't want to die because they haven't been second annointed... just saying 🙂
Finally caught up to the LDS discussions episodes to catcha premier
Stellar team, great show!
I would love to hear RFM and Nemo perform the Mormon rap. Please make this happen!
Thanks for doing this and keeping these truths coming back around so people can know!
If i could watch RFM every day with his sarcasm and comedy, I WOULD!
This is my favorite episode yet!
@lesley. 💜💜💜. Might well be THE MOST CRUCIAL EPISODE OF MAMMON HISTORY. Except, things will be even worse when that next woodhead ascends to on "high".
Nelson’s September 2019 BYU devotional discussing the 11/2015 policy of exclusion was also full of lies. I left the church, partly because of the policy, but also because of all the lies they told about it from day one. Just disgusting.
I love your Podcast!!! Congratulations on putting together such interesting content.
Rock 🪨 in a Hat 🎩
Woman wearing a hat 👒
Cat 🐱 in a Hat 🎩
Where’s the problem 👀
Also - would love to hear a recap podcast on half the apostles publicly lying 🤥 - Go Nemo Go
Gardner Wheel, 😂👏👏👏🎉
Best one ever! Keep going!
Its also disgusting to assume this woman doesn’t have faith! Shes thinking of all the people who love her and who she loves, and how much theyll miss each other!
the absolute joy on John's face as he changes RFM's boomer count is super contagious.
Absolutely great work today!
Nelson, the heart surgeon that actually had the time to learn Mandarin on top of his church duties. The Defense Language Institute estimates that it takes 88 40-hour weeks of study to learn Mandarin. Unless, of course, this was another one of his miracles. This would be another fabulous lie that you can investigate in a future episode. 😂
He claims to know Mandarin?
Yes I was furious about those claims because I was pushed by school leadership to pursue Mandarin to further the church and ended up serving mandarin speaking. Not only does Nelson NOT speak Mandarin (no evidence I've ever encountered), it's a huge waste because everyone there is learning English and I didn't use it at all on the mission (England mandarin speaking hahaha)
I have a Russian friend that said he spoke Russian amazingly well in a talk he attended in Moscow. He said few missionaries could speak as well. So, I don’t know about Mandarin and I don’t doubt the lies shared in this podcast, but it is possibly despite the lies that he actually has an unusual language talent. That said, it would be an interesting thing to dig into.
You might be confused with learning to read Korean.
in one week because the language have small amount of characters and easy to learn it. Mandarin uses sounds and has a huge amount of characters so is not as easy language to learn.
Korean used Chinese characters.
I believe Nelson is a very intelligent person and learn the mandarin language.
@@P.A.M.733 He definitely claimed to "know" Mandarin
I realize my comment is later in the game here. This goes back to the beginning when Nelson forgot about these people he converted. I can’t believe he lost track of them. The Mormon church is exceptional at finding people that were ever members and keeping track of them. I mean if you hint at leaving they do everything to keep hold of you. I’d say it’s close to harassment.
I didn't realize that but I've been seeing it mentioned in the comments. That screams cult more then anything. Sounds exactly like scientology
I'm so glad I have you to listen to. It helps to keep me from getting myself back into that trap again.
Totally irrelevant comment: I started playing some soft background music while listening to this because my neighbors were being loud, and just at that moment John began an impassioned speech... highlighted the profound nature of his speech, lol.
😂
sounds like nelson is the jimmy swaggart of mormonism.
Did anyone notice, Russle M Nelson became an apostle 1984. Pres. KIMBLE died 1985. So he had president Kimbal signing his book on his near death bed
Remember when Boyd K. Packer counseled people involved in Church history and education to be mindful of the fact that "Some things that are true are not very useful." (Packer: "The Mantle is Far, Far Greater Than the Intellect" ( Address to religious educators at a symposium on the Doctrine and Covenants and Church history, Brigham Young University, 22 August 1981. )) Such truths according to Packer are essentially truths that should be avoided and hidden...especially by religious educators on the church's payroll).
The obvious corollary to that statement (a point of view that I'm sure is shared by many, if not most, of the top leaders, including Nelson) would be that "Some things that are UNTRUE are very useful."
Taken in context, the truths to be avoided, according to Packer's admonition, would most definitely include simply any truths that contradict "useful" lies and untruths that have been told by church leaders to promote faith in the Church or just faith in their leadership. I have no doubt that Nelson has always been firmly in Packer's camp on this. Nelson obviously started his slippery-slope ride down this path a long time ago. The rationalization is often that "lying for the Lord" is okay, which gets even weirder when you realize that when they tell themselves that it's okay because they're lying for the Lord, they're actually lying to themselves and for themselves...because they really know that "the Lord" never told them to lie about anything.
The Four Horsemen of the Apocolypse! Love the episode, RFM's humor has me laughing in my office while all the TBM's are wondering what I'm listening to!
What hubris what a narcissist Nelson is
I hate how Nelson reminds me of the exaggerated stories my TBM family tells. In reality, they are not people who handle things well, nor would they run to help anyone else in an emergency. But they tell stories as if they are a modern day Pocahontas.
So I know they are always lying and catastrophizing. It's a weird Mormon attribute.
It really is! It’s something many of my TBM relatives do as well!
my BYU living prophets professor a year ago told us that when he met Nelson (in some Utah ward on a Sunday) that Nelson said he said that the gluten free bread options were not needed & he turned his nose up at it. Not really damning but it’s weird to be so dismissive of medical conditions when you are a doctor??
Sorry for overcommenting🥴 this is so rich and full of knowledge, I’m vocalizing every 10 seconds 😂
This would have had the same coverage, as was the assasination attempt on the
POPE.
How delusional are people???
Thanks for pointing out that the other engine was still working and it's just a big bowl of toilet refuse. Unfortunately that is what most of the leaders do, it's sickening.
I freaking love RFM 😂
Another good one, guys. Thank Mike
I always wondered about the story of Brigham Young giving a speech to over 100 people. The audience members all claimed that as BY spoke, people saw the face and heard the voice of Joseph Smith.
Maybe called the transfiguration of Brigham Young.
Maybe reptilian shape shifter
There is a Discussions episode about this, look at the playlist :)
Thanks guys. Exceptional info.
As a professional marketeer for 5 years in the Utah Valley, I would like to get together and talk church marketing and strategy
Over and over again, members rely on feelings and believe that the Holy Ghost communicates via emotions when the scriptures teach the opposite, that it is light and intelligence which are not carnal elements.
1:54:54 I thought I was having a stroke lol Great episode!
Wow! "Your only achievement is outliving everyone else." M. Russell Ballard even failed at that. Lol!
“The good die young!”
Mother Teresa?
Loved this! Love you guys! ❤
It's not just about a person making themself look good, it's about a person making themself look good for the purposes of making a church look good for the purposes of getting converts and keeping members for the purposes of making money from those members. It's literally lying in order to glorify a multi-billion-dollar corporation.
This brings to mind the operating room story with the scalpel impaling his arm.
How amazing that RFM ⚖️ & NEMO 💂 suddenly appears on this episode! BRILLANT! LOL! Love this series! 😎🎻♥️
Amazing show with deep truths! Thanks to all for sharing your insights!
“Cause I’m a liar!” - Rollins Band
I wonder if the Mission President and his wife knew Nelson would turn the robbery into an insane self-aggrandizing story. Which is why they made it known when it happened that Russell and Wendy were not specifically targeted.
As a person whose relatives are documented as victims of the Nazi holocaust there is no word to describe how horrific the idea is that these self righteous bigots would think they have a right to conduct any sort of religious temple work in their name. The LDS people need to attend to their own personal moral life and stop interjecting their BS on others - dead or alive. It is immoral, prideful and disrespectful of all other cultures. The fact that religious "leaders" encouraged this says every thing I need to know about how despicable this institution is.
Nelson I gangster. 103 years old and up the still spinning stories like Joseph Smith did way back. Married someone half his age and he’s tithing exempt.
He’s tithing exempt???? What the hell???
@@Eclipsefam corrupt organization.
Great show , love the humor 😊