Why we should return the Elgin Marbles (to the Ottomans) | Pubcast #31
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- čas přidán 27. 11. 2023
- In the Pubcast this week, Ed subjects Oli and Ava to the age-old Scottish tradition of complaining about the price of things.
We also chat about the weekend's protests in London, and the new cold war between the UK and Greece over the Elgin Marbles.
Subscribe to our new podcast now, or you're a silly goose:
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The Marbles should be reunited but it’s going to be hard to fit The Parthenon into The British Museum.
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Οκ. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛABE!!
😂 💀 🇬🇷 ❤ 🇬🇧
Will be in pieces , easy
some rearranging of old stuff and is done , enough space for the great pyramid if needed
What a spoons that would be! @@Stef.OmegaD
You guys shouldn't be so worried about going over an hour! I prefer longer format and a 3+ hour pod of you three getting smashed just chatting shit would be peak entertainment! Special crimbo edition?
petition for Ava to start saying “thanks for having me” again. I miss it 👉🏻👈🏻
Like the age old question - Why are there pyramids in Egypt? Because they were too big to fit in the British museum.
Challenge accepted
Sooooo true!
I'd just sit and listen to you guys chat for 4 hours about fuck all. More of this 😅
Come for the political commentary, stay for "marble doesn't bounce"
Ed going full Charles Bronson for Movember with that tash, t-shirt and haircut
I love you guys, inform me on stuff going on with good takes and just generally make me giggle at all the fun nonsense you talk about. Looking forward to the 100th episode and many more.
I just listen to you guys fail to make a coherent point for an hour... It was magnificent!
I think Pubcast's coverage of the Israeli-Palestine conflict in recent weeks has been pretty poor, I say this from left wing perspective. Clearly they don't come from backgrounds that know the conflict in great depth, but they also haven't tried to fill those gaps. Have they even had a Palestinian voice on at anyone point? Personally, I don't think they have the experience and knowledge to cover the current conflict in much depth.
I think you can counter someone's message without platforming them
Return our ottomans , we now have heated towel rails
I was 45 when I realised that the Elgin Marbles were not small balls of glass. It was a couple of weeks ago.
Olli just seen you on Global catch up - 4am - 7am at the weekend. I'm going to take a listen. Well done mate.
Ed is so good he could sense the news was switching and got down to the british meuseum early.
You could do a compilation of pubcast clips from this year for the end of the year, I know it would be high effort but it would be so, so funny.
Do something for episode 100, obviously.
This is perfect to feel like you're on mushrooms when you run out.
Worried that Ollie is turning into a James O’Brien 😢
In what way? He’s not liking Starmers arse or excusing Israel, he seems far away.
Why do you title the video something quite offensive and then hardly talk about the Elgin Marbles?
welcome to the internet my man
@@PoliticsJOE sort of thought you lot were better than that tbh
@@tomspyro5795You must have been listening to that high-brow podcast: The Rest Is The Rest Is Politics.
As someone who occasionally gets migraines I just just want to make the observation that, if you could just sit back, relax and enjoy the show, the visual distortion would be quite pretty. Unfortunately you learn the first time it happens just what it means and the only real thought is, "HOW CAN I STOP THIS NOW?"
I love Ed talking about his Scottishness while casually wearing a Tennents t-shirt.
These Pubcasts are such an enjoyable counterpoint to the rest of your content!!! 😅🤠💜
My father recently passed away, but I always called him "aul lad"; mother will always be "nanny smurf" !!
We should give them back to the Greeks, the Ottomans occupied Greece and did not have the right to sell things off. Last night I was watching the Channel 4 news and some woman's whole argument for keeping them was 'the British Museum would be empty if we gave stuff back'. The safe house would be empty if it was raided by the police, who is ready to defend the criminals right to keep their stolen goods?
We never got to hear what Ava wanted to say - instead Ed mentioned about ‘tits’. Sums up the podcast episode
Now That's What I Call Bants 2023 ❤
If you hit them out of the ring with one of your own marbles they become yours. That's the rules isn't it? Lord Elgin's thumbs must have been jacked!
I had an optical migraine a few years back and I described it to my good lady and she looked it up and I saw the exact C-shaped technicolour funky shape which grew until it vanished - no other symptoms and no obvious 'trigger'.
They’re incredibly hard to pin down to a specific symptom since it’s all happening in the visual cortex rather than having anything easy to spot physical symptoms in the eye/across the visual pathway
I have had them from time to time, couldn't get a doctors appointment, but went to the opticians, and they said it was from my eyes being tired from staring at screens and artificial light for too long. Plus, my eyes are a weird shape.
Thanks for informing me that the Cleopatra mummy in the British Museum is not THE Cleopatra. I’m somewhat disappointed. I thought it was odd that such a well known historic figure is just casually laid to rest in a random corner the British Museum. It’s kind of sick that any of these Mummies are on display if you think about it. Undignified really.
I get the visual aura a few times a year now, most of them do not turn into a full-blown migraine, but for those 20 minutes as it spreads through your visual field the sense of dread is just unbearable...
Didn't realise Ollie had Radio Show on LBC, maybe I should look into it 👀
As a Greek living in Scotland, I approve of this conversation.
Look up the Stone of Scone 😊
@@johnners911 and? scottish are weak. same as the greeks. they werent stolen!
Sure... the English never stole a thing 🤣@@paulmillward9092
In most of the US you _could_ have a _marry merry Mary_ party because all three are pronounced nearly identically (though _not_ where I grew up-New York-so I still find that merger pretty weird).
"should we take that out?"
"possibly"
"probably"
>leaves it in
Has Ed been drinking chocolate milk?
Just about to say the same Ava; you cannot make a joke about young people just following whatever their favourite celebrity thinks, then saying old people think that!
I think you all should try talking to people in the 16 to 21 age group.
In my experience, the kind of younger people engaged in the Palestine issue and human rights causes in general, are educated and informed. IF they like the political or social stance of a particular celebrity, it’s because they already held that view not some kind of mindless celebrity worship. Young people have often stood for social justice causes. Particularly since the 60s with the civil rights movement in the US, the anti Vietnam war movement, and the hippie movement in general. They didn’t have social media or the same access to the political views of celebrities and other well known people in the 60s. Yet still some of the greatest social movements for fronted by the youth occurred during a pre internet, pre social media era.
my fav episode so far 🩵
Are we not on episode 31 ??? Tf ?
Regarding the marches, I think it's pretty obvious that the anti-semitism one on Sunday is a cynical plot to undermine the ceasefire one, right down to the way the media have reported on them both. That said, I think they also want to be condemned by those of us wanting a ceasefire to "prove their point", and I don't see the point of playing into that game because I don't see anything disagreeable with the messaging. The fight against anti-semitism and not wanting to see a population massacred by an insane right wing fascist government who claim to be the voice for all Jews are not diametrically opposed, if anything they are part and parcel of the same fight.
As for Tommy Robinson, I don't see why an entire march should be branded because some idiot tried to hijack it. But it would be nice if that same mentality was applied to the ceasefire marches too, whereas we one again see an obvious hypocrisy at play. I do disagree with some takes here in how the extremists in both marches were handled, namely because Tommy is a single-named celebrity who telegraphed his appearance and gave organisers a chance to respond to him. He was arrested by the police, and I believe the extremists in the ceasefire marches also got arrested, the only difference is, one of these was videoed on the spot because it was predictable, while the others were a random group of unknowns who just appeared among crowds of hundreds of thousands. These two situations really can't be compared, especially when, as you point out, Tommy Robinson wasn't the only racist among the Sunday march, but again, the exploitation of a few shouldn't tarnish the entire thing.
I am in my 60s (aka an Entitled Boomer) and worked in London from 78-81. I remember the fireman's strike (a station at the end of our street on the A23), the binmen strike filling Leicester Sq, petrol tanker and ambulance drivers striking. I don't recall marches every weekend although I did hoot my horn outside the fire station to support them.
Other than providing content for social media platforms, what have the recent marches actually achieved? What has happened as a direct result of them that would not have happened if no one had marched?
Getting people to talk about the issues is the point. The more it's discussed, the more it's in the news, the more likely something is to happen to resolve the issues being marched about.
Not sure what the alternative action for the average person would be?
A protest may have similar goals (workers rights/human rights) but affects change in a different way from a strike. While the most effective protests lead to direct reformation, even if the protest is "ineffective" at creating a direct impact on laws it can instead be successful in changing the minds of others or reinforcing solidarity within the movement. For example if you think back to the anti-war protests of 2003, there were ineffective at stopping the war, but very effective I would argue in changing people's perspective on the merits of the war in Iraq. They also serve to block the manufacturing of consent by government, i.e. if you can get a sizeable enough portion of the country into one place to protest with a very clear stance, it is harder for the sitting government to claim that the the way they are performing their duties is supported by the majority.
The protests have changed the way that our politicians speak and we may not yet see the impact that these protests have. They may have an indirect impact on actions performed by the government or none at all. The next government's foreign and domestic policies will be shaped in a world where these protests did happen, and I don't think anyone could quantify the difference between what they will be from what they could have been.
For more information, I found this article from the London School of Economics to be quite insightful:
www.lse.ac.uk/philosophy/blog/2023/02/15/whats-the-point-of-protest/#:~:text=A%20successful%20protest%20is%20one,to%20reforming%20deeply%20unjust%20laws.
It also puts pressure on political figures to know the strength of feeling. Maybe it wont change their stance, but for some it could, eventually you can hit that critical mass that might sway them to stop arming Israel.
It also raises the topic for those who may not have looked into it deeper or only see the Israeli propaganda on it.
Spunky Ava!!?
This is the first time I've heard anyone describe the same ocular migraine symptoms that I get but it never ends in a headache.
wear dark sunglasses if that type of headache comes on, and a nap if can manage. quickest way I get rid of that exact headache type, a swirly flashing migraine spot
There is a game called Obama Llama - it is fun, and this podcast reminded me of it :)
Really enjoyed this one, the shit-talking was top notch. Good politics too
Kier starmer in a farmers llama pyjamas
Obviously Oli's migraine got better by the end of the show
There is actually an heir to the last Ottoman sultan, Harun Osman Osmanoğlu who is 91 years old and lives in Istanbul. Some people think he is technically Roman Emperor because the Ottomans took over from the Byzantine Emperor.
Some people = delusional Turks
What Ottomans? There are no Ottomans? (Yes I commented before listening to the podcast)
I’ve been in a Phuket prison
love podcast no is the show podcast ladies and gentlemen
Got a migraine right now. I'm going to be mentally f****ed for a few days
Olly, sounds like you have something called scintillating scotoma. It's a common visual disturbance that precede migraines. Atomic Shrip did an excellent video on the topic.
This is the closest you've come to actually recreating a pub chat. Bit of news, mostly bollocks
Mr Elgin wasn't some great archaeologist, historian. He was a wheeling dealing thief who nicked the marbles. Athens has a great museum, so they get the real ones and we get the mock-ups.
Miss the older podcasts that were more politically based but with the banter rather than just banter and no politics
Boringly, Stonehenge actually did fall down. The Victorians put it back up..
I thought we played that one for keepsies?
sorry im confused , whats happened to Oli ?
im guessing that salary cap is going to have exceptions or is the care sector about to have a huge pay increase?
It’s about to have a huge staffing problem. On top of the existing one.
Show them anything from Yorkshire sculpture park
You should offer Stephen a box of chocolates to come on the show.
Despite Ed sounding like the very icky Fraser Nelson , he does pronounce "Ska " correctly.
Ava calls her mum by her name???
No.
How much stuff did the Greeks take from Persia for instance ?
Will they give back the hundreds of pounds of gold and silver recorded as Alexander’s spoils ?
I thought it would be politically incorrect to mention the slaves but I guess Greece has got Repartitions to deal with too.
Just make copies and send them back to Turkey , or demand Greece give us our money back...what am I saying , Greece giving us money!
Yes return them by all means, I imagine museums across the UK have their share of imperial booty or droits of empire.
Museums might do exchanges with other countries/ cultures museums, rather than having items in store on mass…
Problem is the UK would have nothing left, as there has never been anything worth taking 😂😂😂
100th ep/end of year special = poljoe end of year review?
"what should you show people who tweat [images of Greek white marble statues]"
Images of the same statues painted colourfully as they originally were, dark skin tones and all.
I just don't see why we don't....
It's just not worth fighting over?
Ed, Movember! You look like you’ve just had a hot chocolate
Obviously, in the 21st Century, we should hand back the ‘marbles.’
I love our museums here in Britain, but they are full of booty snaffled from across the globe over the past four hundred years, which as a criminal justice academic tends to cause me discomfort.
Is Ed "the Filth" growing that mustache as nominative determinism?
Is Ed right handed?
Ball ification it’s all balls total balls 🎱
I don't get why they don't just make it legal for the Museums to sell these items. Their countries of origin clearly want them more and then the museums could spend the money on other exhibits.
selling stuff back to people that it was originally stolen from....
Johnson, wife oh and baby. Plus photographer and security personnel, and ‘funny’ hat. Clear he has his agenda. He had no business to be there.
Ed, did Monica spit or swallow? I guess Ava told us.
Continue to be disappointed by the takes on Palestine by this podcast. Criticising folk for where they get their info from whilst you yourselves are simultaneously pumping out ahistoric, tepid takes on the matter.
They should stay put!
If you put Yaxley on - i'm out for good. I'm usually up for hearing different views, but giving a member of the far right a platform & lending him credibility is not on. The responsibility for these people growing their platform is on all journalists and I won't be a part of that even as a consumer of your channel.
Do you call that a pubcast? 😡
The main reason they should be returned is, they're shite, taking up space that a messy bedroom can be displayed or something, but seriously, they really are shite, let them take them back.
Americans are largely better at the whole auditing business. Audit the Audit is a classic. Just adding random shite to the discussion at the start.
Why are you using green gel filters in your videos? Such goulish pranks!
The marbles, the Davide porcelains, the Egyptian mummies, the Persian sculptures.
Ava is queen, and, sorry, these het men must face up their shortcomings for not appreciating a Beyoncé reference.
If we'd left them there either the Turks would have made them into cement or the air pollution would have dissolved them.
The sculptures not looted from the Parthenon are still there, preserved in the Acropolis Museum, in a better condition than their counterparts in London (the result of a failed preservation attempt).
That's clearly not true, Greece still has their marbles after all. Also, the Ottomans are not in Greece now and they clearly take good care of their artifacts so why don't we give them back now?
The Marbles are actually huge emeralds and huge rubies and colorful diamonds, that are rounded perfectly and were played with by royals. These other statues are distractions...
Please don't let Yaxley Lennon on your pod. You're better than that.
We should all return our marbles to the ottoman
NEVER
My wife gets migraines if she is on the pill as well.
The constant giggling and irrelevant information really destorys this podcast
What is going on here? I fail to understand the meta subtext. Too much jargon but technically not jargon? What is it? I am sensing a lot of hedonistic tension and barely contained impulses. That does not bode well for the next generation of youngins.
Who cares it's a ridiculous diversion.
The Greeks...
Stop this nonsense. Why can't we display anything in our museums without them being from the UK.
Because we stole them?
2 hundred years ago to display and curate in a grand Museum of world artifacts.
Do you want all museums to give back anything not from their country?@@jh1544
Because A these items weren’t even taken that long ago and B they are our allies and we should respect their wishes
Can I come round your house and steal your stuff? Then it'll be mine and I can keep it. Makes perfect sense.
OUR museums....THEIR stuff....do you see it now?
YOU'RE GONNA LOOK BACK ONE DAY AND THINK, "WHAT A IDIOT I SOUND DOING THOSE STUPID SHOUTING INTROS'. So baby-ish.
Why is the Joe a click baiting pulp news account on Facebook, but an informed politics podcast on CZcams?
the Greek government has no claim to ownership of the marbles, they were bought legally from the Ottoman empire and then transported to the UK. They are literally legally the property of the BM since they paid Elgin for them.
The modern Greek government has as much claim to own them as the current Egyptian gov can claim they own the pyramids, the only difference is the pyramids are bit too hard to move to a country where they will be properly cared for!
What a load of absolute drivel. Elgin's claim he legally bought them has always been heavily rejected. He never produced a bill of sale, and everyone even back in those days thought he was lying about it. Secondly the greek government aren't claiming ownership of them. They are asking for them to be reunited in the museum with where they originally were when Lord Elgin turned up and sawed them off. Just give them back, what a national embarrassment we prove to be. Yet again. Long live Britain!!!!
Idiot. The Parthenon statues belong to the Greek people not the government.
I really hope this is a joke
@@mementovivere2oops did I miss really obvious sarcasm/ a troll?
Bought from an occupying force - the Ottomans - therefore STOLEN. Then later, when politically expedient, Britain and other European powers, after, of course, roughing up the Greeks a bit, worked very hard to help Greece become a modern democracy, thereby tacitly acknowledging Greece is its own nation, with its own heritage (which English scholars have studied for eons). Given how deeply the English elite and intelligencia understand Greece, given how much its heritage is admired, who exactly are you to decide if an entire country has claim over stolen priceless pieces of its heritage or not! No, really! Who gave YOU authority to even speak about it? You clearly don't understand what the Parthenon is, let alone what it symbolises or what it's worth to Greeks. Dirty deals of piracy done under occupation and siege aren't moral or legal. And given how badly abused Greeks were in the aftermath of WWII by the British (read about the massacre at Devemvriana), and how in league Britain was with fascists, Britain's establishment owes Greece its treasures. These wounds don't heal very easily, and theft of the bass reliefs that adorn the jewel of Greece, the seat of our democracy, cannot just be forgotten. The question is, why do you feel the need to hold onto something that clearly means nothing to you?
Enjoyed the discussion, did not enjoy the pissing around, the in jokes and constant giggling. It's just not easy to listen to.