Elden Ring: How NOT to Use a Greatsword...
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- čas přidán 6. 09. 2024
- Big two-handed swords to crush monsters and inflate your ego are all fine and good... but when does it go too far? When the heap of metal is so overwhelmingly bulky and heavy that you can only handle it by smashing it into the ground and can't recover in time to defend against counter attacks?
Bah, humbug... Might as well go all the way, speed be damned! You just need to grab a shield so you can protect yourself while awkwardly dragging your mighty paddle around with one hand, right? RIGHT? :D
Yeah, so... Obviously the dark fantasy world of Elden Ring / Dark Souls is not exactly designed with realism in mind (although the animations are actually surprisingly immersive). But it's still a good opportunity to talk about how such weapons worked in real life, and to poke some fun at the game's over-the-top designs for fun and entertainment. So put on your over-thinking cap and let's delve into it.
Relevant videos:
Yes, Giant Swords Existed, BUT...
• Yes, Giant Swords Exis...
How Greatswords Beat Pikes in Battle - Or Did They?
• How Greatswords Beat P...
Viking Two Handed Swords? - History vs. Fantasy
• Viking Two Handed Swor...
** Sources **
MOONLIGHT GREATSWORD Full Moveset Showcase
• MOONLIGHT GREATSWORD F...
ELDEN RING: All Weapons Available In The Network Test
• ELDEN RING: All Weapon...
Elden Ring Weapon Moveset Showcase - Greatsword
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Elden Ring Dismounter Curved Greatsword Drop Location and Move Set Demonstration
• Elden Ring Dismounter ...
Ruins Greatsword Showcase
• ELDEN RING: Ruins Grea...
Elden Ring Sacred Butchering Knife Location and Move Set Demonstration Anastasia Weapon Mount Gelmir
• Elden Ring Sacred Butc...
Matt Galas - HEMA - Montante Solo Drill - 64 Cuts
• Matt Galas - HEMA - Mo...
Montante demonstration by Zequalszero
• Montante
International Montante Symposium 2018 - Montante, Schlachtschwert, Great Sword and more
• International Montante...
Montante demonstrated by Emile Anderson
• Matt Galas - HEMA - Mo...
** Music **
Intro song:
"Illuminate" by Vindsvept
vindsvept.band...
Used with artist's permission
"Spirit Waltz" by Horrorpen
opengameart.or...
Creative Commons Attribution 3.0 license (CC BY 3.0)
Outro:
"Highland Storm" by The Slanted Room Records
theslantedroom...
Used with artist's permission
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#eldenring #darksouls #weapons
Skall seems to have forgotten the fourth guideline:
"If the sword looks cool, ignore the other guidelines and go smash that jagged hunk of steel into some skulls."
the giant dumb "swords" don't look cool
@@TheZombieCurryKid I think some of them certainly do. Not all but yeah
@@cgillis3989 Sorry I was in a bad mood when I wrote that haha
@@TheZombieCurryKid Well I appreciate the apology; It didn't upset me or anything but still, not many would come back just to say sorry, so thank you. No harm done :)
imo only guts sword looks cool, the rest try too hard
Funnily enough, you can actually do the 'snapping turtle' ingame. Spears and thrusting swords are allowed to attack while holding your shield up, so you get to cover up your front with the shield, while throwing out pokes. Amazingly useful, unless you're fighting something so big and strong that it blows right past your guard and breaks your stamina in one hit or something.
Just don't do it too much in PvP lol. Easy parry if you spam it
Yeah thats why in the early game I was using a estoc and a shield since that was useful at the time. But later on the game as I got more comfortable I switched to power stancing katanas just to increase my damage output more as putting up my shield was not worth just dodging and doing more damage, building up bleed and frost.
And even the smaller enemies tend to die just from doing jumping L1 L1 combo or a running L1 L1 combo that I felt the shield was just going to slow me down.
Some enemies really benefit from using a shield. Like those lobsters or those 8+ fingered hand montrosities that just rush and attack over and over again where you can't really dodge them.
Radahn comes to mind.
Snapping turtle was how I first beat a lot of Dark Souls 1, when it first came out.
@@shy8054 I use shield because I like how the animation on the block repost looks; otherwise, I'm power stancing estoc and rapier for the 130 crit.
Skall in his natural “ACKCHUALLY” state.😊
That's what you're here for. ;)
@@Skallagrim Wouldn't have it any other way. ^^
My fav state of his
@@Skallagrim The steroids and amph joke sent my sides into orbit
@@Skallagrim always!
Also, #ultragreatswordgang wouldn't play a From Software game any other way... ;'P
“Don’t abuse the edge of the sword”
Me holding a literal rock that’s classified as a greatsword
To be fair, the Guts greatsword isn’t even a sword. It’s a massive piece of sharp iron that just decimates anything in the way lol
You’re right. It was too big to be called a sword. Massive, thick, and far too rough. Indeed, it was like a heap of raw iron.
Destroys, not decimate. Unless it is only capable of killing 10% of what it hits
@@MasterSean-ql9xi Every man's dream...
@@DoctorSantaPhD the actual definition vs how people use it is vastly different. its been like that for decades.
@@DoctorSantaPhD
dec·i·mate
/ˈdesəˌmāt/
verb
past tense: decimated; past participle: decimated
1.
kill, destroy, or remove a large percentage or part of.
"the project would decimate the fragile wetland wilderness"
2.
HISTORICAL
kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group.
"the man who is to determine whether it be necessary to decimate a large body of mutineers"
Times change, old man. Words lose their meaning over time. I may be obsessed with the English language but even I have respect for the nature of etymology.
Skall: "What would compell you to pick up such an absurd weapon?"
Tarnished: "I want to kill or at least stagger everything I manage to hit."
The reach, damage, attribute scaling, and the ash of war xD
To be fair this a series where stabbing someones shield a few times with a knife causes them to have a violent hemorrhage and explode blood out of their chest. Where somehow the bleed effect is most useful against heavily armored and shielding foes.
Also mildly sad you didn't speak of the powerstanced colossal sword moveset.
ya they do know this game is fantasy right lol so of course they are gonna do stuff with weapons thats pure fantasy cause its fun
We know. Everyone knows. This is just being pedantic for fun.
@@tnatstrat7495 i hope ,that will make it fun
I have always been confused as to how bleed buildup happens even if they never touch your character’s body
@@zazollo Emotional damage.
Honestly, the attack animations in the Dark Souls games always made you feel like your character has no idea how to use a weapon, regardless of your real life knowledge on this stuff. I remember using the Halberd in DS1 and seeing my character sort of wobble forward during its lunge attack, and it looked so weird that it made me think I would get less awkward animation if I leveled my stats higher.
The Dark Souls games are all about making the player feel like they can't stand up to the challenge the game throws at them before they finally just do it and walk away with a sense of pride. So I wouldn't be surprised if having animations like this was done for a reason along those lines; to purposely make the player feel less skilled. Elden Ring's crazy magic attacks sort of go against that philosophy though, so...
If you hit your opponents with the halberd they won't wobble forward. That is true for any heavy weapon that doesn't hit the ground to stop their momentum, like clubs, axes or halberds.
Yeah and if you look at the Katana movesets which are clean af, than it really doesn't make sense.
Dark souls 1 specifically had a detail where if heavy weapon attacks miss, you'll have a clumsier animation. No other games in the series or by fromsoft did this again
As cool as it is, weapons like the hollow slayer greatsword from DS3 and the banished knights sword from elden ring fly in the face of that, at least to an extent.
@@mysteriousstranger5873 Because those weapons are meant to be exceptions/outliers and are special due to their more dexterous moveset. Technically every greatsword should move more like the hollowslayer when used but thatd defeat the purpose of how it's unique from the others.
"What compels you to pick up a huge hunk of metal?"
I'm strong as heck and it hurt enemy bad.
I can wield it without a heavy roll, if I remove Helm and gauntlets!
I think heavy weapons could have a slightly faster moveset of the char had the stre required to 1h it
Because the vast majority of the enemies are creatures or zombies that aren't about to engage me with any real technique. A quick smash with my giant club will knock them around if it doesn't kill them outright.
@@silverblade357 then use a giant club, it's more versatile for that usage, instead of using a bad sword. You can grip it anywhere on the shaft, making it easier to decelerate, and more usable in confined space.
@@sephirothbahamut245 You can grip a GS anywhere as well. Clown take + its a game.
Skall should really look at the Knight’s Greatsword moveset. It has a similar moveset to DS3’s Hollowslayer Greatsword. I’m honestly not surprised that the Knight’s Greatsword is so often overlooked though because you have to farm it from any one of the stronger Knight-type enemies.
I absolutely love Lucatiel's moveset in 2, but never fell in love with 3 the same way I did with the first two so I don't know how it feels as the Hollowslayer. I trust it's still a blast to swing around.
The real issue with it is that the cool flashy looking moves that end in an awesome guard stance... have no range. The character swings them so close to his chest compared to a regular up and down smashy-smash with say, the claymore. There is also the problem that it has no decent R2s, whereas the Claymore has an INCREDIBLE thrust that becomes piercing damage and has beautiful range and poise. It makes for perfect counterattacks as long as you space correctly.
Whilst I love both the Banished Knight's and the regular Knights Greatsword, they are far, far outclassed PvP wise by other swords. Now if we're talking PvE? Oh fuck yeah, go hog wild.
@@Necropantz I only really pull out BHS on people that are spamming or have extremely annoying builds. I also like to have variety, I fight using the entire moveset as opposed to bashing down on one button. R2s are a brilliant mix up against better players, considering they can be charged to throw off timing.
@@blackstag9366 I don’t really PvP much, if at all, so their downsides don’t affect me negatively but that’s a fair assessment. And I do agree that there should’ve been a thrust in there somewhere for the Knight’s Greatsword’s heavy attacks since it would’ve added more variety to its moveset and variety=options in this situation.
You could argue that the lack of range from the moveset is a consequence of not trying to overextend too much if you’re talking realism but gameplay-wise, mechanically overextending a swing has little downsides since balance, stance, and overall endurance are a non-factor in a video game world.
@@Farm4Honor Throwing PvP out the window for a moment.
There's also the issue of the Knight's greatsword, having such a gorgeous taper and thrusting potential... being limited to a horizontal R2 that looks as if he's swinging a damn baseball bat.
It hurts my soul 😥
There’s a great sword in the game that’s made of other swords melted together. Like the iron throne but a sword. I’m sure it’s moveset it’s 100% realistic.
MULTISTAB AKA the fork technique.
George rr martin did some writing for elden ring, could be an easter egg lol
@@evanjb92 I’m sure it is. But I’m also surprised from software didn’t think of it first.
Yeah, the grafted sword from the weeping peninsula. It smacks the ground with each swing.[p
@@Arasmuss Sadly does not make little sword aoes with each time
I like how Elden Ring (and souls in general) has a balance of realistic medieval weapons and armor as well as fantastical anime-esque stuff. I usually just stick to the realistic stuff and it's nice to have that option!
I think you nailed it on the head as to why they have to make these animations for the bigger weapons so clumsy especially the greatswords, pair that with reaction time and input delay over a video game, if they were as fast as you could make them "realistically" there would be no reason to use anything else as you said, they would have a huge advantage over most other weapons in the game. As for the comically huge weapons in the game.... well its a game and its fun to give things a meaty wack with a huge ass weapon lol. Most enemies you fight in this game or any of the souls games are not humans or even thinking humanoids, but rather mindless creatures (some of which are huge) that just want you dead so lots of the negatives of this stuff doesnt quite apply as much or in the same way. That was my over analyzing of your over analyzing. I love these types of videos.....
The point about mindless enemies is why I love the big weapons, enemies walk right in to me and get obliterated a full 2 metres away. I was kind of interested in what Skal would think of roll attacks that swing a colossal weapon around 1 handed after rolling.
The Knight's Greatsword actually has a very nice two handed moveset that doesn't overswing a lot and keeps the point towards the enemy. It's my favorite greatsword and I brought it to +19.
Like Monster Hunter, They use ridiculously huge weapons to hunt large creatures in their business.
Or you fight crazy people which cut of dragon heads and implant them in their forearms - and it FUCKING works, firespiting included. (No Spoilers, only killed Godrick so far)
Also the character you play as can absorb the souls of demigods
I think the implication has always been that the characters do big, beefy swings like that because they just have to. The added physical resillience characters gain from using souls/blood echoes/runes is so great that anything besides a full bodied swing with your weapon (massive or otherwise) has a negligible effect. Thats the lore explanation, anyway. The gameplay explanation is the animations are made like that so they will be easier for the player to see and predict. The animations are designed to convey alot of information to the player, which they need to be able to dodge properly.
Then you have Margit... Who breaks all of the rules. Or, who exceeds what players can hope to do... Margit has more tools than the player.
I wished From Soft improved on their combat design. It can be so much more than what it is now. Outside of the Ash of War and Power Stancing. Elden Ring's combat is still behind Dark Souls 2's combat.
Even with the simple R1 and R2 for light/heavy attacks. So much can be done within this set of inputs... Delay, Normal, Charged, Rapid, Input Action, Directional, Camera Directional, Lock On/Unlock etc... It all adds depth to what players can do. And it even improves jumping attacks beyond what it is now.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Besides personal issues with story/setting, this is my biggest and worst issue with Elden Ring and DS in general. It's forgivable in ds1 but we should see some major improvements in anything beyond that. It's unfortunate to see fromsoft backtracking after how flashy and satisfying Sekiro and Bloodborne's combat was. Also needs way more sets that aren't silly looking lol.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 well. Than increase what things you can do. There's so class system, try specinga little in other areas like to use magic. The meteorite staff plus some basic meteorite spells can stagger most big boss in 2 or 3 casts
@@heroesnation782
My character has 50 in all stats. It's fun to be able to use everything but... It's not relevant to my creative criticism.
From Soft has always introduced new mechanics but they tend to walk back on others. For me, it's mainly the combat system. It seems From Soft avoided the good aspects of DS2 in order to also avoid the bad aspects.
In the end... I can design the potential of their combat system, but since I'm not their director. I can only observe and criticize their work... Elden Ring is the easiest of their Souls games, but it can be better without changing the nature of From Soft's intent.
That can be solved by bring the camera in for a tighter angle on the characters doing the weapon weilding. However that makes opponents hard to see if a character blocks them from the viewers point of view...
9:40
Well, you see, the reason this weapon is curved is because it's just a giant version of a knife designed to cut herbs.
I have such a knife. It's curved so that you can rock it back and forth across a cutting board. To do this, you place your hands exactly like they do in that sequence.
Looks like a comically large dussack
A mezzaluna? *aldini intensifies*
Something I've always wanted to see you review was the two-handed attack pattern for the banished knight sword. They don't slam their sword into the ground like a maniac, and seem to have each swing stop in a ready stance for the next strike.
Ikr, i was hella disappointed he didnt go over it
The closest we'll get to actual montante techniques.
The creator of Dark Souls is a massive Berserk fan. Elden Ring even has a direct reference to the sword graveyard that is in the manga, as a memento to Kentaro Miura, creator or Berserk, who passed last year.
Yeah, who cares about how unrealistic something is. It's just a game. I personally love how massive and impractical the swords are. I mean i like realistic fantasy a lot but I also like unrealistic fantasy too
@@ChamberSpell "Who cares about how unrealistic something is?"
People like Shad and Skallagrim?
And you, because you're responding to this video?
@@ChamberSpell big difference between in-universe logic (like dragon exists, magic is a thing etc) and characters using weapons wrong/uneconomically even though the world has a comparable gravity and actors are humanoid. So they could fight w/o exposing themselves or overswinging.
@@grandarkfang_1482 these videos are fun to watch, but if souls games had realistic weapons and usage it would not be as fun or interesting, I would not enjoy DS1 as much without the abyss greatsword flip or the Dragonslayer greataxe from DS3, are they awesome? Absolutely, are they realistic? Absolutely not.
Have you looked at the moveset of the "Banised Knight Greatsword"? Its light attacks actually looks more controlled compared to the other great swords i think
yeah, one of only few greastwords that have a decent moveset.
The inseparable sword does a good job as well!
The (normal) knights greatsword as well
I was hoping he'd cover those movesets. They're only GS I'll use because my char doesn't look like an idiot swinging it
Same applies to the knight greatsword. Right up there with Banished Knigh's in looking more controlled in its swings.
You should check out the Grafted Blade Greatsword. It's a sword made of swords. Imagine picking up the Iron Throne and swinging it at dudes. This game is awesome.
Reminds me of Spinner's sword
When i picked it up i just kept looking at it thinking "What am i looking at?...says Colossal Greatsword... IT'S A SWORD?!"
I was using Guts’ greatsword until I got the Grafted to +9. I can’t wait to use it
isn't that the main image at 0:16?
It's literally in the video
The most ironic part in my mind with this, is that the attacks are extremely slow and the swords seem super heavy but the characters can roll with them like its a bamboo stick
This makes me interested in seeing Skallagrim take a look at more Elden Ring weapons and how both the enemies and the Tarnished use them.
“Here we have a real life giant demon warhammer and I’ll now show you how to properly use this thing as an effective weapon”
@@D00000T "Wait a sec. Here, hold this."
"Wait, why--"
*Skall kicks in the shins and sucker punches opponent*
@@jurtheorc8117 negative lethality, whereby simply holding it, the wielder becomes tired and less of a threat.
can't wait for the pizza cutter review
@@PinesOfChaos still waiting on the Bloodborne review
The "Big Scraper" ( 9:35 ) is almost certainly a reference to the "Hollow Manservant" enemy type in Dark Souls 3. They're tall hulking figures who typically wield a sturdy two-man saw as their main weapon - which they hold on both sides and use kind of like a manual guillotine, charging at the player and slamming it down onto them repeatedly, like in the animation you showed.
Not a great choice of weapon in their case either. But they're hollow, so even them being somewhat functional is already a miracle...
I think the butchers in DS1 already did that attack. One of the heavy attacks of the Butcher Knife (the weapon they use) is that same attack I think. It's one of the special moves of the "big-ass cleaver" weapon class.
Butcher ever since DS1
The worst part is that they did actually have proper greatsword attacks in previous games where the light attack is a sweep that curved back into a forward guard, but only on certain greatswords. No idea why they didn't do more with those.
I got that moveset on a greatsword in ER but when I could use it one handed because i met the str requirnents it turned in the old one :/
Gotta put points into strength...
DS 2 had a combo with some greatsword that is a twirl that ends with the sword pointed at the enemy like the mirrah greatsword or drakeblood greatsword and a few more. In DS3 only the hollowslayer GS (pretty much mirrah GS from DS2).
The rest of the attacks in all three DS games are either slamming and overextending or both.
@@royalsoldierofdrangleic4577 in ds3 the drakeblood too had that moveset
Gameplay > realism or verisimilitude. The attacks in Elden Ring may be crap from a proper technique perspective but they READ BETTER for gameplay purposes (it should read crystal clear to someone that hasn't wileded or even seen an actual sword in their life when their character is open to get attacked). There are better technique in other From Soft games, sure, but this exaggeration isn't new nor aimless
To be fair, the bigger blades go back to the Berserk influence. The colossal greatswords often do blunt damage and aren't made for any kind of speed.
Remember that the ingame animations are often more concerned with creating a certain size and shape of hitbox rather than being realistic or looking accurate. Wide horizontal swings are useful in souls games.
Also you must see what you are doing while camera is mostly behind the character. Hence overswings which indicate when and where you start and stop the move.
This is a good point
Yep, of course. What makes sense gameplay-wise is naturally different from what makes in the real world.
@@SMT-ks8yp
Since Elden Ring has a limited move sets compared to Soul Calibur (if you transition that game into a proper 3d game, not a PvP Arcade Style game)... Then most of the attacks in Elden Ring need to have basic swings.
Although... It would be nice to get the more ambitious weapons like Dark Souls 3's Farron Greatsword... Most of the great swords (not including Ash of Wars) feel too similar in terms of move sets.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 Was that the one with a parrying dagger? Loved that one, felt like a dancing queen with every weapon art
The swordsmanship mod makes Elden Ring combat a lot more fun for me.
It doesn’t perfectly fix the issues with swordplay. After all it’s stuck using the animations of the game. However being able to block and parry with my two handed sword is so much nicer.
I no longer need a shield to block attacks with a greatsword because of how bad the blocking was previously.
Anyone who likes more believable swordplay I definitely recommend installing that mod!
Bless you for this knowledge.
Why would I pick a greatsword?
To hear a massive woosh, a meaty thunk, and the sounds of 3 enemies dying, then stepping forward and making their buddies feel stupid for tryin the same thing.
you can do that with realistic greatsword as well :D without the thunk though...
I pick em because when I hit an enemy, I want that enemy dead, not tickled.
@@valkaerie8715 I love tickling enemies until all of their vital essence suddenly and violently explodes out of their chest cavity because my lil' butterknife made a bar on a screen in front of someone killing time in a different universe fill up.
@@CoralCopperHead
I'll stick my Holy light sabers in Elden Ring...
Having followed since "end them rightly" and having heard this analysis of your's over the years; Your Writing and Delivery in videos has improved in quality by leaps and bounds! Able to admonish silliness while praising style. Giving loving back pats and well deserved slaps on the ear. Criticizing and Complementing with ease! Watching your videos has been a joy! Thank you!
P.S. The giant scraper is used by a batshit crazy cannibal, so yeah 1:27 this is a perfect side by side shot XD
Very valid points in the video. To be fair though, with all of a Tarnished accomplishments, they're not as insane in their skills as the many enemies they fight. And possibly not as bright. The animations make sense to show them not being very skilled with what they're doing
yea after all they are just some random nobody
@@jaden2758 To be fair, after a few hundred hours and several thousand kills, I don't really buy the "They don't know what they're doing, they just swing big metal stick around" defense. You'd think that after the Nth time getting stabbed in the back because they pivot more than a full rotation every time they swing their sword, they'd think "Maybe I should try keeping my sword and shield roughly to the front". I'd personally love to see a game where the progression wasn't bigger numbers to match the bigger numbers of the enemy, but rather increasing weapon skills for the chosen weapon, to match the increasing skills and ferocity of your opponents. The best swordsman in the world can't be stabbed through the torso any more times than the worst swordsman and still keep on fighting. Of course, that would require tens of animation sets for every weapon type you could get your hands on, instead of just adding a zero to the back of the numbers every now and then. In a way, I really enjoyed the dark jedi from Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy. If your lightsaber intersected with their body for any appreciable length of time, they died. The difficulty in fighting them stemmed mainly from them ganging up on you in later levels.
@@MrVeps1 you kind of described Kingdom Come Deliverance a bit. Although without mods in the lategame you can get quite op
@@MrVeps1 The game systems you're describing are antithetical to the type of game that FS makes.
@@dakota9821 yeah, I know. I often want to see experimental and atypical stuff in my media, but per definition such things lack mass market appeal. Kingdom Come was very interesting, and I definitely need to play it more, but I'd like to see progression more akin to that even for fantasy games.
7:45 to be fair, the game already has semi magic dodging with the inclusion of invincibility frames built into the animation, which is the core mechanic which allows us to fight such giant opponents. In theory this completely changes the dynamic of reach advantage, like a shield or parrying would in real life.
That's a pretty good point, there
That "surprise attack" you did at the end is actually something you can do in elden ring. Crouch and attack with any large straight sword. The attack comes out super fast and staggers a lot. Useful for both PvE and PvP
yeah none of these creators making videos critiquing the game have clearly played the game past the first zone or actually gotten/used any of the unique weapons with unique animations or fought any of the giant massive monsters where you clearly would not ever in a trillion years be using an arming sword or short sword or normal "vs human" tactics like he's basing his entire video around, when that's what... 10% of the enemies or less? and the ACTUAL BRAIN WIELDING THINKING ENEMIES... what maybe 1-2% of the entire game???? come on now that's just playing stupid for the sake of making a video.
@@zeening you missed the point of what Skall was talking about
@@zeening There is a literal arming sword, and longswords. I have killed a 5 story golem with a longsword. Something, something, cannot fill rest of comment.
@@zeening your comment makes me dizzy sorry i cant take your comment seriously because you dont even understand the concept of punctuation ah typing is tiring
@@zeening careful, your neckbeard hairs are standing on end
This video is pretty good. The greatswords that ive found in elden ring that actually match this flow of logic would be either the Claymore or the Banished Knight Greatsword both of those have really good balance in their animation and they dont use the ground to stop the sword, both greatswords also have really good flowing combos that are decently fast. Edit: also the proportions of these swords are really close to being realistic, with the Claymore looking pretty much spot on, and the banished knight greatsword looks like a Principe's Blade with just a modified Crossguard akin to say maybe a 12th-13 century style arming sword.
It is worth noting that the swords in this video are specifically COLOSSAL Greatswords, as opposed to normal Greatswords which have much more normal animations.
Colossal/Ultra Greatswords have pretty much always been in-game memes from a historical martial arts standpoint. If you want reasonable sword with reasonable animation, use a normal greatsword/longsword. I especially like the Lordsworn Greatsword, which is basically a zweihander similar to the one he showed off in the video.
Annoyingly, there _is_ a Zweihander in the game, but it’s classified as a Colossal Sword even though it’s a more usable and historical design so you’d think it’d be one of the regular Greatswords.
@@maddockemerson4603 Sadly that's likely an artifact of the "zweihander" being classified as an Ultra Greatsword in Darksouls 1.
@SlamScum I mean, if it's less exaggerated, then it's not the same. Some overswinging is going to be necessary for balance reasons, but there's a big difference between an overswing and planting your sword firmly into the dirt behind you.
@@maddockemerson4603 even more annoyingly, there's a sword called Greatsword in the game, but it's not a greatsword, it's a Colossal Sword.
@@harjutapa You mean..."It was too big to be called a sword. Massive, thick, heavy, and far too rough. Indeed, it was a heap of raw iron."-sword right?
Hey can you talk about the banished knight sword it actually has some technique in the moveset and I'd like to know if that's real or not
That surprise attack at the end.. I just finished playing Elden Ring for the day and was not prepared for the 'You Died' screen. You got me.
I like to think it makes sense considering it’s an undead unskilled that finds a weapon somewhere and “hey let’s try using it”
This, with the exception of bloodborne souls games are prettymuch always about some unkillable moron stumbling through a world of mindless monsters and beating everything by sheer attrition alone
I especially like how the tarnished slams and swings their railroad beams/swords as clumsy as one might expect, and shoulder it with great effort....and runs away with it and jumps around with it like its a balloon.
Fantastic video about the topic again, made both serious and funny with facts without being aggressive towards the game for just trying to be fun.
I'm running a Faith/Alchemist build on the game and I'm actually following a few rules for realism with simpler weapons in these kinds of games, such as in Elden Ring I'm using a small knife for basic combat/plant cutting, a club for armoured/hardened foes and a hand axe for big monsters, all collective knowledge on taking on certain types of fantasy enemies with less over-the-top gear, from your videos.
Loved your content for years, glad you're still going as strong as ever.
You should see my current build dual wielding 2 colossal greatswords. This is why I'm playing Elden Ring.
Not as weird as two massive hammers.
@@blizzardgaming7070 why not a massive hammer AND a giant sword? We can compromise.
@@JustiniZHere can’t powerstance though, you can still use both but lose out on using both at the same time.
@@blizzardgaming7070 fair
Are they the Starscourge Greatswords?
The unique movesets of the inseparable sword and the banished knight's great swords have your character maneuver the blade to point forwards after attacking.
I think a fair explanation for overswinging a sword is that normally, they will die in one hit, so who cares you are exposed, if you pick an insane chunk of metal and after the hit they are not death or stunned for long enough you can recover and cover yourself then your metal chunk is not big enough (sorry for bad english)
I think a big aspect of Souls games (that Fromsoft admittedly does forget with their more anime weapons) is that your character doesn't really understand how the weapons work. It's the moveset you'd get if you handed a random blade to a nobody and told them to go to town.
DS2 shows this best by far in my opinion, where you start out unable to wield even the shortsword depending on your class.
I think "medieval post-apocalypse" describes things best.
Too be fair, I don’t think many people would survive getting hit a by such a massive sword. The weight alone is probably crushing.
Have you ever checked Michael Cuthullu? He’s a blacksmith that makes these weapons in real life. Pretty sure he’s messed up his back just from trying to lift them up and swing them.
Michaelthulu is awesome. He also uses a lot of aircraft aluminum and other light weight materials in place of steel. As pictured, most of these weapons would be flat out unusable. Several people have done "what would Guts' sword actually weigh" calculations, and I think the most generous was something like 500lbs.
@@scottmacgregor3444 WTF? He works almost exclusively with Hardox steel for blades and leftover steel tubing for handles. He's a metal fabricator and welder. That ain't aluminium he's welding.
Indeed, getting hit by such a giant paddle sword would suck. Fortunately it's easy to evade swings that telegraph from last week. :)
@Adventurer I just typed a whole paragraph without realizing that this is sarcasm.
@@Skallagrim Gotta consider that you're going up against giants, rotten dragons and that kind of stuff.
Funny you mention this because in PvP, DEX characters can and will abuse your slow bulky moveset.
It'd be neat if there were unskilled and skilled versions of each fighting styles with qualifiers for how to achieve the latter.
The Banished Knight's Greatsword, that you get from the more difficult knights in Godrick's castle, actually have realistic 2h animations. Granted, it only looks good when 2h, but its pretty accurate. Otherwise yes, most of the weapons in Eldern Ring have some very funny animations.
You are right. But it still smacks into the ground. But at least the moveset is cool.
Drakeblood Greatsword from DS3 does have real-esque swinging animations.
@@MatPost It uses the same moveset as the Mirrah and Royal Greatsword from 2. Granted that is because *it is* a dark souls 2 wep
I just wish we get get a DLC sword that has those R1's but with thrust R2's of the Claymore.
@@MatPost the mirrah/hollowslayer too
Thing is, in souls-like games the overswing is game design: it allows the developers to make enemies slower by punishing the player for not connecting a swing, forcing players to take advantage only of the best windows of opportunity.
I hope the next video is about how impractical it is for me to run into a battle against a Giant Rock Centipede Star monster with my Dagger
Knight's greatsword has a good moveset actually. Instead of slamming it into the ground it properly using its momentum to guard position.
It just adds to the feel in game to see it slam into the ground.
The feel of being dumb.
@@functionatthejunction muh realism
That's why I love so much the Knight's greatsword, the moveset is so much more realistic and makes you feel like your character does know how to handle a sword
You need big swords because the enemies don't die in one hit
I dont get how people use greatswords in dark souls 3 and elden ring, they are way too slow and I almost always get hit when using them
@@quaza2001 hyper armor
@@quaza2001 very carefully
@@ayy-dree-in But every boss one shots
@@quaza2001 not every boss but yeah ik what you mean, heavy weps are fun
In a world with dragon, giant and god a giant sword sound appropriate because you are not fighting human most of the time so damage, durability, reach and weight is needed to cut throught their armor and hide, i think of it as more of a mace with edge more than a sword.
i love that the takeaway for these types of videos is always:
real sword good/ big sword fun
...and im here for it
Skall, you fool, there is no greater virtue than peacocking with two colossal gravity scimitars I pried from the hands of a god.
Problem with not over swinging is that I'm sure all the bosses you fight in this games will laught at you if you don't put EVERYTHING in the strikes, we are hitting stuff that survive this strikes from weapons that are greater size than you (And I'm sure you have to be really careful of over swinging in PvP).
Love the videos, the many examples of realistic moves are quite interesting.
The reason to use these Greatswords in the Souls is simply because you're fighting huge enemies. It would make sense to use such a sword to have an impact on them.
His technique is unrealistic, he didn't throw a pommel as a surprise attack.
Total boycott, ugh!
Dragon's Dogma has that kind of attack
@@KABLAMMATS Dragon's Dogma, such a good game.
ok but counterpoint: i'm an immortal zombie that gains physical strength by eating the souls of my enemies around the campfire i can do what i want ur not my real dad
Sadly I've been using the Guts greatsword excessively...mostly because of the stat scaling and move set allowing me to hit a large area and it's weapon art allowing me to fortify myself while also performing a strike that sends foes skyward.
Thanks for blogging man.
@@crownedpleb9747 yeah sorry I tend to do large blocks of text, personally tho I'd like to use the claymore however it's weapon art makes it far too silly even by comparison to the comically large colossal greatswords.
Wdym sadly, it's a goddamn great and fun weapon
@@TrunksXsayajin yes, but it breaks immersion as hard as it breaks a targets poise/stance.
@@revenantchild You know you can change ashes of war for most weapons, right ? (you call it weapon arts)
Ah I was hoping you would mention the unique ability to thrust with spears behind shields in FromSoft games. Always thought that was neat and made spears feel more unique compared to most games
Nice video. As he said, realistic moves would be game breaking, unless it's the purpose of the game to be realistic. I mean... Try to be realistic against Margit. He's three times your mass or more.
That's why it's in the "fantasy" category.
I like Skal's vids because they show what the real thing is, versus what the fantasy portrays. Very instructive.
There are a some accurate moveset in terms of Historical Fencing. From Software Always balanced (more or less) realistic weapons and fantasy weapons. Swords like Zwheihander, Claymore, Side Sword, rapier ecc... Are very realistic in terms of design. And some of their moveset are pretty Good. Of course it's a fantasy game, so it's cool to choose a massive spiked giant magic sword, but their not all like that 😉
@@arnoston9221 The movesets for the zweihänder (or even the greatswords or regular swords) aren't realistic at all. I don't think I encountered anything that's particularly realistic yet
@@SVVV97 Yeah the zweihander moveset Is terribile. But i liked very much some of the weapons art of the greatswords, some of their moves are not that bad. Of course this Is not a sword hema sparring game, we still talk about videogames
My real-life older stepbrother was almost exactly three times my weight (425 lbs/150 lbs). Only person I ever knew of to pick up and throw a Harley-Davidson motorcycle into a van.
I'm also three times faster than him though and would dismantle him with any edged weapon.
We're just not at the stage where that kind of thing can be realistically depicted in a game that most people could afford to buy, or more accurately afford a system that could run it.
Two parts of the game mechanics, jumping higher than humans should be regularly capable of and really heavy swords, seem contradictory to me. I mean, if gravity in-game is less than IRL (to explain the jumps) the swords have to be made of tungsten alloy or something.
No, it's just Rule Of Cool AFAICT.
@@arnoston9221
Sport (HEMA) swords are not even realistic to actual combat swords...
It's difficult to tell (without historical manuals) that any technique has practical combat use.
Skallagrim, you know what's actually the funniest part?
The more 'basic' or 'conventional' weapons are usually the best in a mechanical nature. For example, the Claymore is the only Great Sword in the game capable of doing an innate thrusting attack on it's R2 (strong attack). It is literally the only great sword in the game that stabs.
The Zweihander is arguably the best "colossal" (yeah for some reason it's like a 200 lb sword in this universe) sword in the game, with the most range and also an innate thrust attack on various other moves.
The basic rapier and estoc still are the best thrusting swords for crit damage and slashing moveset respectively.
The longsword has the best moveset of straight swords.
The list goes on, now that might not sound like a lot but in this game's PvP that's oceans of versatility granted over flashy weapons.
Giant swords are created to fight giant enemies: smaller swords are very much more effective against single human-sized enemies, who are faster, and die more quickly to most weapons anyway, but giant weapons can easily stagger pretty much any enemy (opening them to attacks that can almost delete them,) or even cut through entire groups, opportunity permitting.
As for using them with shields, the main use is against projectiles, not melee attacks: if you have to fight someone with a bow, and someone with a sword at the same time, you very much can, but the fight is pretty clumsy; against purely melee enemies though, it's more efficient just to stagger and kill them.
Doesn't stop me from using a giant hammer on those tiny enemies
The world has magic. The world has the ability the shape metal... Why wouldn't you just fling metal darts at super sonic speeds with magic? Who needs swords when you have magic guns?
@@JohnSmith-ty2he its more of specified spells rather than straight up metal bending and shit, if you wanna control a sword u gotta weild one that is made to be controled, if you wanna cast spell in order for the to be effective they gotta be big balls and streams of magic coming directly from your hands or staff
@@specificocean4176 Or eventually book (Faith build) yes you can also use book as melee and magic weapon in this game.
Snapping Turtle method actually worked pretty well. It got me through early game. I dropped it for a (somewhat oversized) mace which works great against larger enemies, shields breaking enemy stance in a single hit.
I was aware of all of this and agree with everything. Elden Ring is still my new favorite game.
I'd love to see a lot more weapon analysis of some of the more plausible and implausible Elden Ring weapons, maybe even an entire review of all of them with a 1/10 scale on usability!
6:33 you can actually attack while your shield is up with rapiers and thrusting swords in this game.. just wanted to add
Yes, I've mentioned that in an older video about Dark Souls. The combination of greatsword and shield is just nuts.
I love the way From Soft designs weapons and the way the character swings them.
Elden ring is realistic
They fight how everyone fights with no sword training
'Why would i need to use a sword that big'
"You ever fight a dragon lad? Them scales aee thicker thand plate and locked almost as tight, yer gonna need a bit o' weight just to knock em loose!"
Actual conversation I had in a d&d game
The fact that you can use runes to level up and become stronger in game also means that the playable characters are superhuman in strength and speed. Either way, faster weapons are almost always better in pvp and pve so, "for fun" is really the only reason to use these massive and slow weapons.
They also give more hyper armor, so you can tank some light hits without flinching for a trade
@@svilendenchev9984 which KINDA makes sense, since the sword is so heavy it starts thorwing the user around it only makes sense where the swing is so powerfull stabbing the guy using it wont help
My favourite moveset is the alternate greatsword moveset that some greatsword class swords use. The character conserves momentum to swing the sword from a cut and straight into another easy to attack from stance. No ground smacking, just well flowing moves that look great.
If they had realistic FEMA inspired animations for attacks, the game would play like Devil May Cry.
Based off the in game description of the Guts Greatsword, it’s pretty much accepted that anyone using it isn’t merely human. And based off of that it’s basically just a hunk of iron that’s heavy enough to crush enemies. Obviously impractical unless you’re some sort of Tarnished who’s literally killing gods.
I've played through the whole game with the Guts sword, it hits like a train and you really have to stay on offense with it otherwise they'll keep pushing you back. It's good that bosses usually leave big openings - also spirit ash. A lot of it depends on stagger or interrupts.
The best part is that there are some Greatswords with competent looking Animations, the Knight's Greatsword, the Banished Knight's Greatsord, and the Inseparable Sword
That's one thing about the Souls games. You have to put yourself in the mindset of a zombie who is bad with weapons and go from there. It's not like other games like The Witcher where you're playing someone who is good at fighting.
The banished knight greatsword attacks seems to have some nice form. It actually looks like your character knows what to do.
I think a plausible explanation would be that the over large weapons are mostly not used by "normal" humans often even demons, half gods or other creatures and one point is gamplay design the weapons aCtUaLlY use themselves as well as they are presented... Which usually means very bad
But love your vids man xD
The descriptions of some of the bigger weapons also state things along the lines of the wielder needing more than mere human strength or the strength of a giant to use them. So leveling up just makes you super human.
The gods gave you two hands, and you use both of them for your weapon. I can respect that.
It would be really cool to see you analyse the effectiveness of some of the more plausible weapons
actually precisely the reasons you pointed out make the UGS unviable in every player v player situation. those things kill people in 1-2 hits with the proper build, but its users are really rare and extremely good at spacing and timing to counter-act the slowness of it all
Throwing shade at Elden Ring eh? You sir like to live dangerously. Prepare for the horde.
This aint his first rodeo at pointing out how dumb some games are at swords.
@@functionatthejunction Do not cite the deep magic to me. I was there when it was written.
He just usually waits until they are a little longer in the tooth, and the fans are past the frenzy stage.
The reason I am glad that you can pick up a giant block of cement attached to a stick (an actual weapon in the game, kirkhammer intensifies) is just that; I climb on the buildings to get loot, and now I use the buildings to get loot out of anything with a skeletal structure. It's a hundred percent the absurdity factor that appeals to me, at the very least.
I mean, you can always dual-wield them, that will solve the issue ;)
Skall: What would compel you to pick up such a huge hunk of metal?
Me: To honor the guy that carries a lump of iron behind his back
I mean you can wield a sword wich is a direct reference to game of throne, rules of cool (most importantly fashionsouls/ elden bling) will always be a factor
Also talking about elden ring, since there is mounted combat, what about a video about best horseman weapons ? or tactics ? looking at mongols and scythians would be interesting imo
9:45 the face in that moment is a poem hahahaha oh man I love this channel.
So here's something I've noticed both Skal and Shad seem to not address when it comes to this game's weapons.
the weapons seem to be much heavier than the real life counter parts, when the weapon hits the ground it vibrates the screen/ground. The creatures and characters you fight are much larger than you, so you'll need a heavier weapon to gouge through their thick flesh. but characters that have armor or are made of stone actually take less damage from swords and more damage from blunt.
This leads me to believe that in the lands between, weapons are made to take on such large characters. If the weapons were made with the weight and balance of their real life counter parts, they probably wouldn't do enough damage to the creatures in this world to kill them. I imagine that the weapons made in this game share similarities to the real things, but are probably made differently to account for the world they live in.
you understand this is a game right the slam screen shake all it if is to communicate info to the players loud band ground explosion etc thats a heavy attack is slow i can dodge and punish. as skal pointed out if they put in the weapons realistically there would it would be very game breaking for balance as it would just dominate shorter swords.
@@aikidodude05
Soul Calibur is the better example about weapon types...
In Elden Ring (the soul series)... The quality of realistic animations from both the player and NPCs is all over the place.
Margit being the better player than any player could hope to become. He is the Flame of Ambition that puts players to rest... ... ... Also, because he is the pinnacle of how complex Elden Ring should have been with its combat design for players.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 dude what the heck are you on and what the hell are you even talking and why are you trying to drag a fighting game into this?
@@aikidodude05
It's a criticism about From Soft's combat design for players. Margit is the pinnacle of what can exist for players.
@@absolstoryoffiction6615 dude drugs are bad mmk?
I'm a fan of agility and grace in martial arts; so beats me as to why these giant lumps of stretched steel are so many people's favorite "swords".
anime
My take on this: Huge sword makes enemy tremble, enemy that trembles doesnt attack me, enemy that doesnt attack me is easy to kill
The point of the colossal swords is the damage and stagger it causes and if your timing is good you can definably hit someone with them... Good video as always...
I use dual wield greatsword xd
Precisely the reason why I never used big weapons in these games. What drew me to these games was actually attacking with the spear while simultaneously blocking; it felt real but then there were also other weapons which made zero sense.
I feel like we need some over-the-top huge weapons for martial-types to compete with casters who can quite literally summon a fucking dragon
Oh, you can do better than compete. For all their silly tricks, wizards still haven't found a way to stop a giant-ass sword from completely wrecking their skulls.
Skallagrim has some very subtle facial hair changes- the shape of his goatee’s bottom and his sideburns or lack thereof
I guess it makes sense because the real life techniques and weapons would be near useless.
I think a good argument is that in the souls universe there is a large variety of shapes and sizes to people based on the amount of souls or power they have, most ultra greatswords will be dropped by massive mobs who wield them like a standard weapon and clearly have the strength to use them, as for why a player might use them, the player in universe can enhance their strength, which in my eyes would mean it would be easier to realistically lug around and use gigantic weaponry
Elden ring is not trying to be realistic tho
I half expected when you said "if you want a powerful weapon that can deal with giant, heavily armoured enemies" you were gonna pull the gun card