Atlantropa: The Insane Plan To Dam The Mediterranean
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
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More than 150 million people live in coastal cities around the Mediterranean sea, and many of them are under threat from rising sea levels due to climate change. Cities are pouring billions of dollars into dams and mitigation projects to prevent flooding, but there is an idea - an old idea - that could save all of the cities at once. But here’s why damming the Mediterranean is harder than it sounds.
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TIMESTAMPS
0:00 - Intro
1:12 - Sea Level Threat
3:11 - The Dam Idea
4:51 - Tangent Cam
6:01 - Cost
7:39 - Why Haven't We Done This?
10:44 - Atlantropa
12:55 - Crazy Enough to Work?
14:48 - NEED
17:15 - Sponsor - Henson Shaving - Věda a technologie
Hmm… I hear the high-pitched noise you guys are talking about. Don’t know why I didn’t hear it in the edit. We’ll try not to make that a new feature of the channel. Sorry guys.
That's funny. I only noticed it once I paused the video and then unpaused it. I don't trust my brain farther than I can throw it.
I wonder how much more playtime the video will get in just people listening for the noise! 😝😁
Is it puppies?
ohhhh I read that wrong at first... I thought you were saying WE WERE MAKING a bunch of high-pitched noise about the mistake you didn't hear in the edit... you know.. the one @ 7:27 where the DAM suddenly becomes a TUNNEL that could allow for roads and tunnels that could connect the two continents.....
And so I thought you just had a VERY STRANGE way of acknowledging that you said tunnel instead of damn and it was even weirder to say this mistake wouldn't be a new feature..... it was HECKA CONFUSED!!! lol Because in a way it KINDA makes sense, but not very much lol.... But then I happen to glance at the reply to your comment and glance down at the comment under yours and suddenly it made sense LMAO
BUT the weird thing is that I didn't hear any 9khz noise until you pointed it out, and even then I had to turn up the volume quite a bit to hear it....but this is probably because of have a large fan always on because it gets pretty hot in this room, but I hear it now that I turned it off and upped the volume I can hear it... it's a simple fix and I'm sure you'll have it fixed before Monday... well I hope you had an AMAZING Thanksgiving!!! I know I did (even though I had to cook EVERYTHING AND do ALL the Dishes... lol it's okay though, there are only 3 of us and Mom n Pop did it for me for many years, so I can easily do it for them on Turkey Day... now if I could only get my sisters to do something for them LOL j/k)
- - HAPPIEE TURRKEI DAI ERRIEBODDIEEE!!!!!
Happy Thanksgiving brother! I hope you and yours are having a wonderful day.
One problem you didn't mention is that the Strait of Gibraltar crosses an active tectonic fault. It's a problem that has stymied plans to build a tunnel or bridge across the Strait and might well inhibit the construction of a dam.
The African plate is moving at 2.5 centimeters per year, if my google was correct. That dam would be slowly squished, on top of other problems.
Pick a mountain. Order it to be moved to the Strait. Send workers and machines to do it, until it is done. Problem solved. We move mountains over decades just to remove iron. We could easily move 10,000 million tons of mountain a year. Over 20 years, that is a lot of mountain. :)
@@davidbeppler3032 so your idea is to just pile rocks on top of each other, engineering and construction are not that easy.
The tectonic fault thing seems like a detail that should have made it into the video...
Yes it is my understanding from The Internet that over time Africa is moving faster in relation to Europe and will squish the Mediterranean into nothing
Historically, mankind is excellent at deciding it might be a good time to tap the brakes, just as the front of the bus starts wrapping around the tree.
@@cj548🤡
*brakes
I would have to disagree: This wonderful civilization we find ourselves in usually taps the brakes after they've wrapped a few thousand buses around trees and assorted other objects. Though it quite often waits until the hulk of the bus is in a junkyard and it requires archaeologists to figure out what a bus was, analyze the carcass of the bus and determine it's mechanical functions, identify brakes, and argue about whether the brakes should have been tapped or not. These arguments are usually inconclusive and any information derived is buried beneath the social chatter of whatever age happens to be happening.
So, in short: Only a few humans know what a bus is, even fewer know what brakes are or how to use them, and no one can ever decide if they should be used or not.
🤡@@cj548
@@2ndfloorsongs i love your analogy and OPs too
This may also create a serious salinity problem. Right now Atlantic water enters the Mediterranean at the surface, and dense high salinity water exits at the bottom of the strait. If the strait were blocked by a hydro dam the entering water would be drastically reduced. But the exiting high salinity water would completely stop. That, combined with surface evaporation, would steadily increase the salinity of the Mediterranean until it would be like the Dead Sea. Not good.
I live in the Netherlands, where part of the North Sea (technically the Zuiderzee) has been dammed off in the 1930's and turned into a lake. The lake turned from salt into fresh water as it is now fed only by rivers and apparently the equilibrium is such that more salt goes out than comes in. There are huge pumps and sluices at the edges of the lake, that regulate water level and, I assume, salinity. It had severe impact on the local ecosystem as many species disappeared completely, but over time it seems to have found a new balance. Something similar could happen to the Mediterranean, not necessarily making it fresh but regulating salinity. The power that a 13km hydro dam can deliver can probably run some mean pumps.
@@GreenIsTheWayForwardIt could run some mean pumps for sure, but it can never pump more water than is driving the power production in the first place. Selectively drawing water (i.e. grabbing the high salinity deep water) might be an option but it negates a lot of the benefits of this.
Yes, exactly. I was also thinking about this. What if you leave the Suez canal for drainage so the salty water can get out there to the red sea and back to the Indian Ocean? Guess the Suez Canal is not deep enough for the heavier more salty water to dive under and flow out. I share your opinion on the saltiness being the biggest issue. Probably unsolvable.
It wouldn't work that way. The level in the Mediterranean would be lower so there would just be an inflow of very salty water from the Red Sea.@@tomaskoszeghy2447
@@GreenIsTheWayForward We'd probably need to have some passive flow on the dam, cutouts at various points/levels where water and animals can freely travel. I'm certainly not an expert on the subjects (engineering, oceanography, ect) needed to design such a dam but I could see a combination of passive flow and pumps being enough to control salinity and water levels while still generating copious amounts of cheap fairly green (hydro isn't perfect) electricity.
I live near a dam and have gone on tours. One of the things about the dam that always amazed me is that the thickness of the dam at the bottom is monstrous compared to the width at the top. It's 45 feet wide at the top and over 660 feet at the bottom; it's 726 feet tall. So assuming that the dam has to be about as wide as it is tall, and considering you said it's up to 900 meters deep, that means the dam will be 13km long and almost a km thick at the bottom; the costs and technical issues that would be involved in pouring, supporting, and cooling that amount of concrete are staggering.
I have no friggen idea how it would be possible but I feel like volcano lava would be interesting material to use considering that’s how the earths massive land forms are made
That would not be the case here, as the dam would be supported by the pressure from the water on the other side. The dam would only need to withstand the pressure difference from the different sea levels, which would probably be a couple of meters, whatever the tide is like there. And the occcasional hurricane, of course.
@@feelincrispy If possible, that'd depend heavily on the quality of the lava. If it's solid granite, that'd be well and good, but the rocks on Iceland are very porous. Awesome idea, though!
@@feelincrispyinteresting idea, but there's no way to release magma quickly and to have it remain in solid stable forms in all but a few locations. You might actually pull this off in Iceland or Hawaii in 100 to 500 years depending on technology development, but the med is entirely on continental crust, the lava you would reach with any conceivable tech would have a very high silica content and retain incredible amounts of gas, which is why volcanoes on or near continents are very explosive while those far out to sea are not. The idea of fusing a kind of concrete with a thermal process is a better way to apply your idea here... there might be some way to add radioactive isotopes to concrete so that instead of curing with water, the aggregate isn't just bound but melted into a solid mass? I can't pretend to figure that out, but if anyone can it'll make them very wealthy.
@@warpdriveby I've seen quite a few articles over the past year talking about new concretes and concrete substitutes. Most of those are meant to make concrete more environmentally friendly by absorbing CO2 instead of emitting it and/or recycling waste materials (there's one that uses waste steel powder to make cement that's stronger than normal concrete and also happens to absorb CO2 due to a unique chemical reaction during the curing process). I'm pretty sure at least one of the ones I read about is supposed to be able to harden and actually get stronger in salt water (it may have been based on ancient Greek concrete though I could be mixing up details).
I really don't understand why people have such a hard time understanding the existential risk posed by puppies. These horrific and gruesome creatures lul us into a false sense of security, and brainwash the masses into caring for them. How is it that we have not taken action globally to combat this threat?
I'm pretty sure I've heard almost exactly the same about children 🤣
The coming pupocalypse
Kittens are cuter too!!
And when are we going to talk about how much rainbows hurt stockholder values? Hmmmm?!1?
The entire taxonomic Order puppies belong to is nothing but deadly predators.
Technical Note: Your spoken audio has a high-pitched background noise around 9000hz or so. It could easily be removed with any audio restoration suite like Acon Digital Denoiser or Izotope RX.
You have a promo code?
Once you notice it, it doesn't go away! Great content, but good call out. Joe - Kids or others (hearing aids, special needs, etc) might be sensitive to this, please fix this and make your content more digestible by these individuals.
Not sure if its gonna pick up on consumer grade equipment.
Tay being a friendlyjordies supporter, here, is always great to see.
@@lordxmvtik I hear it vividly on my iPhone.
As far as the Panama Canal was concerned, for the US involvement, it had a great bit to do with connecting the East/West Coast fleets, a mjor defense initiative.
I do believe that the canal does have a lot of use in global commerce, and more importantly, that story is better than the story of US imperialism. The latter kinda makes everyone uncomfortable.
You cannot calculate the hydro power output of a dam from its width. The power depends on the flow rate and the drop.
As an engineer, I think the main technical challenge with a Gibraltar Dam is the depth of the Gibraltar strait. You will need a lot of material to build such tall dam. However, the political and ecological challenges will probably stop it even though it would have been technically possible to build the dam.
Yeah, people rather spend the money on wars... Looking at any war costs is saddening at best... Like really, we would be able to do so many great stuff instead, but no, guns and violence it is... humanity is sickening
@@lazymass indeed, humans just cannot get along, we are doomed.
The main challenge is that it's not necessary, for that reason it's good that it's largely not possible.
A 900m x 12km dam would be something like building ~120 Burj khalifa next to each other and than closing the gaps at the top XD
@@johnsmith1474 and I'm sure alot of dams must have sand in the concrete, while canoing across america lanes in the most futuristic depiction instead of hyperloop travel can definitely be possible and not require very many resources except at crossing points.
Honestly, easy shipping through the strait of Gibraltar to many major ports around the Mediterranean sounds like a lot of value for something that doesn't need to be maintained
Strait 😑
The power from the dam wouldn't just be about the length of the dam. The other factor maybe even more important is the difference in the height of the water from both sides.
I was surprised you didn't touch on the disruption to global shipping. Several navies would also have a problem with this, e.g. the Russian Black Sea Fleet. Furthermore, if we dammed the Strait of Gibraltar and lowered se levels, the Suez canal would need to be redesigned with locks, etc.
Not to mention you are actually exacerbating sea level rise everywhere else, eh?
If things keep going like they are in Ukraine and the Black Sea, in another year or two there might not be a Russian Black Sea Fleet...
Also, if a Gibraltar dam generates hydropower, water flows from the Atlantic into the Mediterranean. Where does it go? If the surrounding seawater level is higher, it can't flow back out. Maybe it's not enough to make a practical difference, but maybe it is. Has someone run the numbers? (I'm assuming river water inflow matches evaporation - does it?)
So many questions.
I just figured out how to solve this rising sea level thing!
Put the extra water in rockets and fire it at Mars!
@@KaiHenningsen if it's generating all that power, they can just pump the water back uphill, right??
Yes, I know, that won't work. Don't hit me!! Guarantee soneone will propose it.
Joe, this is the content we have all been coming here for over the years. Good show ol' chap.
This is the first time I came across this channel. Very nice composition, intelligent and also funny. It was good to watch and I think this was the first video ever where it was interesting to hear about the sponsor of the video. Have a nice day and all the best!
The encroachment of the sea in the Nile Delta is due to the Aswan High Dam that prevents new silt from reaching it, which would thereby replenish the delta and contribute to its growth.
The more we try to "control" rivers, the more we get shown that nature doesn't care about what we want.
Isn't part of additional concerns with Nile levels dropping causing tensions between Ethiopia and Egypt and the Renaissance Dam project? I know the reservoir is still being filled and I think will take another 4 years or so to complete.
So when the mediterranean sea turns into a freshwaterbassin by blocking the atlantic ocean you will also have a red sea with freshwater which ethiopa/eritrea needs;never thought about that@@ryanmaris1917
@@ryanmaris1917 The dam is a huge problem since it effectively blocks off the monsoonal floods that hit the East Ethiopian rise which have allowed the Nile to avoid drying out like the other major river systems in North Africa after the abrupt termination of the last African humid period.
For context Africa thanks to its geography has for the last 8 million years been undergoing a precessional induced cycle regarding the relative strengths of the eastern and western Monsoons. When monsoons from the west are strong they can bring rain deep into the African interior however when the eastern monsoons dominate they smash into the East Ethiopian rise dropping out their moisture content as they are forced up and over the mountains.
Thanks to orbital precession we entered the dry phase around 5,600 years ago or so but thanks to human land use via pastoral farmer's herds overgrazing the region this cyclic shift was greatly accelerated and thus the drying out of the Sahara occurred on the order of centuries rather than the typical thousands of years indicated by costal sediment records off the coast of Africa. The consequence is that in Africa Arabia and the middle east in general there was an abrupt drying out of the region which forced mass migrations of people to the few river systems which didn't dry out most notably the Nile which gained their precipitation primarily from the East Ethiopian Rise along the blue Nile tributary and the Tigris Euphrates which gained their source waters from Armenian highlands known to the ancient Babylonians as Ararat etc. There people were forced to for adapt to live in large groups beyond the size of individual tribal and family groups in fixed locations rather than the nomadic migration that has characterized our genus. It was these floods that enabled human civilization as we know it and made the region survivable without the floods there is no Nile there is no life Egypt with wither away like the rest of the Sahara. There is another major tributary that feeds into the Nile the White Nile however its flow rate is minor in comparison only 15% of the total flow of the river.
Because of the importance of water for survival Ethiopia's dam quite literally is slowly destroying Egypt and will barring major diplomatic resolutions I can only imagine it eventually leading to a desperate war for survival.
Honestly when you look at the metrics overall dams especially in tropical or subtropical regions don't make sense long term since huge dam reservoirs due to their enormous surface areas lose far more of their water to evaporation than would otherwise have been lost and large reservoir lakes are generally anoxic making them major methane production facilities that severe as one of the leading anthropogenic sources of the potent greenhouse gas second only to natural gas production.
Research from independent sources like academic institutions and international watchdog groups not directly controlled by the hydroelectric industry have consistently found that the long term production of methane from artificial reservoirs is sufficiently large to cause the net carbon footprint for hydroelectric power generation to equal if not exceed that of coal. In other words in fighting climate change hydroelectric power is a major carbon source not a sink once we account for the changes such dams have on the local regional carbon cycle. The consequence is that while hydroelectric energy is renewable it is not in any semblance of manner green energy.
Unfortunately these results have largely fallen on death ears since the hydroelectric industry has provided the lobbying base propping up the renewable energy initiatives since their early days. To make matters worse hydroelectric power is centralizable unlike wind and solar which means that it is preferred by governments who wish to maintain centralized control over the energy sector this means even bringing up these research results politically is a non starter despite the overwhelming body of evidence against the use of hydroelectric power. And yet the evidence shows that these dams are only accelerating the impacts of climate change.
I would usually have linked sources but CZcams recently flagged my account for providing properly formatted citations. Given that search results are customized by algorithms it might be difficult to find the sources especially if your search history isn't strongly biased towards academic sources so your best bet for finding them will either be looking further down the list of search results or searching via google scholar or an equivalent academic focused search if you want more information.
Just seems a little strange that the Suez canal wasn't mentioned. Any Gibraltar dam project would need to deal with the fact that there's already another exit/entrance to the Mediterranean
Yeah, there are various versions of this idea that involve damming the Suez and closing off the Black Sea as well. I suppose I could have talked about it but those wouldn't be quite the ordeal that Gibraltar would be so I just kinda focused on that.
Good point.
@@joescott Who pays for the initial build?... who pays for the upkeep?... who pays for the extra costs to now travel around Africa to points east?... who came up with this fkng stupid idea in the first place?. So many sane questions need to be answered before this insanity is eventually binned.
@@joescott I seriously doubt the land would be worth as much as the shipping route that doesn't have to go all the way around Africa but humans aren't very good at making those decisions
If ever a project should be built I think NATO would want control of it , and there would have to be a series of locks big enough to let aircraft carriers come and go .
I want to say three things:
#1 this videos thumbnail and title was WAY too interesting for me to scroll past as I've never even heard of something this ambitious being proposed.
Definitely got my attention and brought a new viewer to this channel.
#2 I appreciate your off-beat witty sense of humor. The "soup box is tall" comment killed me 😂 instant subscribe!
#3 you are not the first content creator Hanson Shaving have sponsored that I've watched.
I didn't buy their product yet but I'm very serious about trying it as I perfer quality over quantity.
Thank for the content! See you soon!
If you've never seen something this ambitious you should look into the plan to use nuclear weapons to dig a channel with the goal of flooding the Sahara. Absolutely wild.
Joe might have a video on it, I don't recall.
Just found you Joe. About to binge all of your videos. Glad to be here!
I think the main reason many of these aren't being pursued is that it makes shipping lanes more complicated and limited. That's a big source of income to limit.
Not just income, also imports for other countries.
As long as you are doing something as bonkers as damning the Gibraltar Strait, why not include a set of locks to allow ships to pass?
@skeptibleiyam1093 you can, but it would cause a bottleneck that wasn't there before. Plus that would have to be done before completion of the dam otherwise all imports and exports will stall for that period
Lowering water levels in the Mediterranean could have significant unintended consequences for environmental conditions around the sea (and possibly beyond it). You just have to look at what is happening with the disappearing Aral Sea, and the negative effects on precipitation in the region.
Look at how many rivers flow into the Mediterranean. At best the water level would increase when the river water can not drain into the Atlantic. At worse it would be static.
The most expensive thing would be blocking all of the shipping that travels through the Strait of Gibraltar. That alone would prevent the dam from being built.
@@oldtimefarmboy617 There is more water lost to evaporation than the rivers provide. Cut off flow from the Atlantic and the Mediterranean level will drop.
@@michaelkeefer5674 This is correct. It would become progressively saltier even if flow is allowed in from the atlantic. The mention of using this somehow to irrigate the Sahara is silly.
@@prospero11
@oldtimefarmboy617 locks.
Locks would require transferring water to the lower level and there is a whole lot of ship traffic into and out of the Mediterranean. And it takes the same amount of water for small hips as it does the really big ones.
@@michaelkeefer5674
"@oldtimefarmboy617 There is more water lost to evaporation than the rivers provide. Cut off flow from the Atlantic and the Mediterranean level will drop."
There is a whole lot of ship traffic into and out of and through the Mediterranean. That would require multiple locks at the dam and the Suez canal.
Add all of that water flowing into the Mediterranean as well 24 hours a day 7 day a week.
And dams leak. That is a given. How much a damn across the straight would leak considering the corrosive nature of sea water. Storms. Probably someone who could figure it out.
And even if that ends up not being enough to maintain the Mediterranean 's current level, there would be the economic impact to shipping. All of the ports along the Mediterranean coast that would require continuous modification.
Sorry, but there is nothing humans can do that nature can not undo.
Joe using metric throughout the video. That's beautiful.
Could you put links to the older videos in the bio? Love the channel!
Crossing the Straight of Gibraltar while traveling Europe by rail back in the late 1980's was a highlight of my experience while living abroad. The image of seeing Africa for the first time by water was sublime!
Sigh...
How did you cross the Straight of Gibraltar on rail...?
This line of questioning is a burden I must bear, a grlizzy task, you could say.
My interrail pass included boat crossings as well..
Strait 😑
The Melilla Massacre was no "stampede": it was a police-made massacre, mostly by the Moroccan police but with very real help by the Spanish one.
Reduccionista e infantil, un tipo que nunca tuvo que proteger nada es un niño que no sabe, un inocente que llora porque el colacao tiene grumos.
Y pretenderá escribir sin haber leído.
@@hamzab1368 - Spain does not exist, you must mean Castille.
Also don't be a bigot, remember how Morocco invaded and destroyed West Africa and more recently West Sahara and Arif (all with European imperialist complicity).
Fun to listen to. Keep up the good work!
It would be interesting to see what anchient artifacts could be found near the shore lines
Another prob with the Gibraltar dam is exactly what you said: it's between continents. As in, continental plates, which are not moving in perfect synch with each other. There's enough vids explaining the issues of putting up bridges or tunnels there, yet that's nothing compared to putting in a water-tight seal all the way down!
You don't want a water-tight seal, though. *Stopping* the flow of the Atlantic into the Mediterranean would be an absolute catastrophe. We only want to slow it down. Even Herman Sorgel's plan to lower the sea level by 200 meters would've ended up being quite awful. But if a dam were actually built, the goal would only be to lower the sea level by *one meter* or less.
This reminds me of the wave of dam building in the 50's and 60's. No one thought about the long term damage. We should know better.
I'm surprised that Panama canal commercial aspects were mentioned, but not closing Gibraltar. It's a massive shortcut between Asia and Europe trade. They could build locks, but that would still reduce traffic a lot
This definitely won’t have horrendous unintended consequences.
The caspian sea, the aral sea, the red sea, the dead sea, the black sea are all also either entirely or at least mostly enclosed by land.
I think the Mediterranean is the only true sea
Caspian, Dead, and Black are basically lakes
Well, the Black Sea is a sea but is often considered part of the Mediterranean.
I’ve been watching you for a few months… as an amateur content creator… I have to say I really admire the amount of research you appear to do, plus it’s really well edited…
I really appreciate your hard work sir… 🤘
I'd love to hear a lot more feedback on the idea from Mediterranean based ecologists, sociologists, and sure, even economists. This seems like the sort of plan championed by people who won't have to deal with its impacts.
Love you man!! Keep up good work!
Hi Joe! Long ttime follower here, I live in Seville (100 mi from Gibraltar) and I can talk in name of all the people at south Spain and say that we DON´T WANT.a land connection witth medieval Africa. Even if electricity is for free for the rest of my life.
One of the most interesting things about rising sea levels due to climate change is how selective it is. To be fair, the Mediterranean has lost many port cities to rising sea levels, or perhaps a sinking ground level. These port cities sank below the waves 2,000 years ago +/-.
But, I live near coastal areas and we haven't seen any of this sniper selective sea rise.
that's the weirdest thing I ever heard, sea levels are supposed to be one of the most uniform things
@@pexfmezccle sea level isn't uniform at all actually! Changes in Earth's gravitational field can change sea level, as can things like pressure changes!
@@pexfmezccleand yet the Pacific is several feet higher than the Atlantic. That is why the Panama Canal has locks.
@@frankmueller2781 aren't the locks there because the canal goes over land which is elevated above sea level
@@pexfmezccle
You don't say
The plan to build a canal into the Sahara is also worth exploring. It'll help lower sea levels some, and create lots of new coastal cities in previously unusable land.
That would probably face less opposition and environmental impact. I think that option is probably better but it can't be handled as a neocolonial project, the African governments should be heavily involved and granted full control eventually, like Egypt with the Suez canal
@@marlonbryanmunoznunez3179 The difference is that Egypt is a real country and most of these places are a clown fiesta. The best way for at least half of them to be involved is on the receiving end of fat stacks of cash.
The greening of the sahara would kill the Amazon rainforest. There are no solutions if life, only trade-offs
I'm usually casually entertained by your videos, but that soapbox bit made me chuckle.
I want your shirt haha. Great video as always
There would be quite a few other downsides to this alongside fish migration though. All the new land exposed would be highly salinated - potentially leading to salt being blown across huge areas of Europe and Africa, weather patterns would change - with places on the coast suddenly finding themselves quite a distance from the sea, and going back to Venice, that whole region used to be a swamp (which is why Venice was built in the first place there as a defensible city). If the sea level dropped around there it'll likely become swamp again, leading to all sorts of diseases around a major city? This could be worth of a whole follow-up video - what would happen if we dammed the Med? Also - if you're interested in mega-projects, on a smaller (but still mega) scale - the Severn Barrage proposal in the UK would be wider than any dam across the Straits of Gibraltar (10 miles across the Severn, 8 miles across Gibraltar) although no-where near as deep. The Severn Barrage has been seriously proposed and planned - but never progressed because of the environmental impact.
You can add to that, that the med would become more saline as it evaporates.
There is also the issue of where all that water ends up? Higher sea levels for the rest of the world would be my guess.
you are asuming it rains enough for Venicew to be swampy-I think the real isssue would be the silt would be full of pollution and toxic stuff-look at the Salton Sea in California for real life example
There was an equally crazy proposition to dam the Congo river at a point near modern Matabi and other location, the purpose was to flood the Pool Malebo (submerging Ile M'Bamou) and other low-lying areas of the Congo Basin, with the stated end goal being to make a shipping corridor into Central Africa. Mad scientists ain't got nothing on colonial politicians.
"Sir we are having trouble supplying the colonial outpost."
"Have you considered devastating the inland ecosystem?"
Grand Inga, or is that some other project?
@@amosbackstrom5366 Congo river should already be navigable by large sea going ships in it's natural state, but there are some rapids that would have to be circumvented by short canals with locks that would ave only small impact on river itself, but the main obstacle are rapids near to Inga. So it would make sense, as there already are power plants and derivation channels, to build set of locks (or ship lift) and new low head dam upstream in order to get ships over this part of the river. And even if ti wouldn't be for sea going ships, opening Congo for something like VIb class barges (and ships) could completely transform whole region. Even going for smaller Vb could have huge impact on economy and number of required locks and dams should not be high at all.
For the record: the Mose dam in Venice works. We've been using it for a while now and it works.
people are saying theres a high pitched noise in the video but my tinnitus is so bad that it drowns it out lol
No puppy is as cute as Zoe! Praise Zoe!
Down with puppies!!!
Puppies really wow I thought Joe knew what he was talking about
Puppies are hellspawn demons and Zoe is their overlord (and ours)
Love your videos! Your opinion on puppies will divide people but it needs to be heard. Thank you for your bravery.
I agree regarding puppies. Not a cat person tho
Excellent. I've been waiting for this. 😂
As a civil engineer that has worked on several dam, hydroelectric, and lock projects, I kind of (in an emotional way) want some of these mega projects to happen.
My first concern was active fault lines. I don’t remember where the continental plates join in that area but it’s probably pretty close. Dams and faults don’t usually play nice together.
My second concern is: where we gonna get all the concrete? Making concrete is carbon intensive… so we dam the Med but accelerate the melting of all the glaciers and flood the rest of the sea level areas?
Puppies are cute, and I am so glad you have the courage to say it!
Awesome video and channel
Egypt has proposed an inland salt sea- very large damn and canal to make it. I think it would make an interesting video and this video made me want to see a video on the Egypt project
My one concern with this project that I don't think I heard Joe mention;
What would happen with shipping? Would we have to build a canal around it through Spain or Morocco? Would the Dam somehow incorporate a shipping lane, which I guess is possible if we're gonna be damming a whole Sea lol
Yeah I was waiting for him to bring that up. Presumably the dam would have to incorporate a system of locks.
There would also need to be locks added to the Suez Canal because at the moment the Med and the Red seas are connected at the same level.
Given the amount of shipping that passes through the Mediterranean this could be a big issue.
He showed a picture of the proposed dam with lanes for shipping integrated......
My big concern is that it leads to higher sea levels for the rest of the world.
And because of the difference in levels, locks would be required. Though there's a thing called differential flow locks where you make a very long lock and introduce higher level water into the lock at various points along it so there's a very gradual slope and it requires no gates. A lock, such as this, requires a length of about half a kilometer or more. But hey, the cost would be nothing compared to the damn dam.
I don't think that is the main concern, considering the point is exact border between the african and eurasian tectonic plates.
There's a very high frequency sound throughout the whole video and it's driving me insane.
Besides that, the video is very well done, I've been watching your videos for three years now and you'vw never failed to deliver good food for thought for all that time :)
That’s crazy, I was just about to comment about the Star Trek link when you mentioned it. 😂😂
Imagine saving the Mediterranean Sea, and raising the ocean all around the Earth, because of it very smart
Just to mention that the MOSE in Venice has been active for a few years and it has been working fine. There were a lot of questions during the construction phase but in the end it does work and prevents flooding of the city.
Why have the canals been drying up for the last few years? I thought the sea levels were rising?
@@jimmy_kirk AFAIK they have not been drying up, but been clogged up by sediment faster than in the past.
Reason being more floods lead to more flood management construction, leading to less water movement, leading to more sedimentation and less natural currents flushing the canals.
Just like the laguna around Mont st. Michelle was sedimented out of existence when the street/dam was built and preempted water movement.
@@user-un8tv1pp8m I've literally seen photos of the dried up canals, and there is a plethora of news reports about it. It's not an issue of sediment build up, the water levels dropped about 10 feet below their normal levels.
@@jimmy_kirk Just look up "bassa marea" or "acqua bassa" (low water level or low tide). It's a phenomenon that occurs yearly that is linked to weak lunar tides and high air pressure. What's made more recent events worse is the high air pressure that's been lingering over Italy much longer than normal, prolonging the effects. It's also not a consistent low either as tides eb and flow daily so most of the canals effected change throughout the day.
@@jimmy_kirk I googled that for you?
Spring/summer 22 and 23 saw a drastic reduction of freshwater inflow to the western mediterranean. The most important river flowing into the adriatic, the Po actually brought 61% less water in the first two quarters due to alpine glaciers being nearly gone and extremely low precipitation.
Combined with rare low tides due to lunar cycles, that led to canals falling near-dry on a few days. Wasnt a general status but short freak events during low tide producing a lot of press.
Which again combined with canal depths being reduced by the abovementioned sedimentation issue.
And the adriatic being a body of water not all that well connected to bigger bodies of water, fluid inertia did its thing.
Thanks for sending me down this rabbithole. Some of that I did not know.
Hey! Two videos in a week, what a treat. Thanks Joe.
Theres an area of land in either libya or egypt which is lower than sea level. There was once a proposal to dig a trench and flood the area hopefully creating an ecosystem. Has anyone heard of this?
The Qatarra Depression in Egypt. Flooding it could hold 1213 cubic km of seawater and lower sea level worldwide by roughly 3 mm if I did my math correctly (while displacing 300 people that live there).
Really good episode, thanks!
I think you'll find that historical coastal inundation in areas around the Mediterranean has as much to do with sinking land as it has to do with rising sea levels. That's certainly true in Alexandria.
NO! We must keep pushing climate catastrophism at all costs!
Yep.
Many places are sinking that is a fact...but they'll say it's the sea rising! It's climate change.
Yep Keep the hysteria up
Yeah…Joe pushes the climate agenda and therefore fails to mention Venice is sinking.
I always love when the Venetian flooding topic comes up and every one tries to solve the complex problem with a seemingly simple solution or multiple complex problems with a single solution in this case. the geology alone is a loosing battle
Damn it !
*
Fun.
*
Seriously thank you for the videos.
What a coincidence! I have an insane plan to flood the Dead Sea, the Great Rift Valley, Death Valley, and a few other large low places to drop the sea level about almost .2 inches.
Imagine one accident, an earthquake or some kind of defect in construction...and you have Mediterranean cataclysm all over again
I've heard of dumb ideas before, but this one tops them all. Close the Strait of Gibraltar and force all shipping around South Africa to use the Suez canal to get into the Mediterranean.
The dam will/can include locks to allow ships to pass. It might be a dumb idea, but not for the reason you think.
Yeah, I heard plenty worse. (Aerosols, anyone?)
Spend more money to prevent displacing millions of people? I've heard worse.
200 to 2,000 gigawatts of electricity would more than pay to build locks and railroads.
But what happens when there’s a freakish flood in the mountain regions and it can’t be pumped into the Atlantic fast enough? Bye bye Venice? Historically, it’s a much drier zone, but it only takes one big breakaway anomaly.
Venice is sinking because it was built in a marsh and they pumped out the fresh water beneath it. Not because of sea level rise. This is an insane idea as you titled the video.
Nobody said that. We know it's been sinking all along. Two things can be true at once. Venice has its own foundational issues, but rising sea levels are an undeniable global problem. I don't know why you've fixated on this city.
You know, the Jaws metaphor is really incredible.
I think it was an analogy rather than a metaphor
Joe, I love your content.
For a few years, it's been a consistent part of my edutainment.
Thank you.
The David McCollough book on the Panama Canal is fascinating. It still amazes me that it's even there and operable.
"Being constantly reminded about massive existential threat.........." The 1980's - Maggie, Ronnie and Leonid have that T-Shirt :D
There’s no way this could go wrong. Not a chance; we’re just so damn good at planning as a species.
I'm surprised no one mentioned how building the dam would disrupt trade. You'd have build a massive lock to be able to let ships pass as well as dam the area. And if you have a lock you'd have a toll which companies don't want to pay.
I just recently fell onto this topic and it's funny to me that you're just making a video about it. Long time watcher first time commenter
Another megaproject that I would like to hear you talk about is the flooding of the Qattara Depression to form a shallow salty lake in the Sahara to help regulate climate in the area.
That may well pollute fresh water aquifers.
I believe this would be catastrophic. 😮
exactly.
@@rustythecrown9317 super salty soil, and the Sahara desert creeping into Southern Europe would be bad. 😅
In Star Trek Next Generation's time large parts of the Mediterranean sea are not just dammed but actually water free. Turned into Farmland and cities and whatnot.
is that beta or alpha canon?
When you first hear it, you say, "That's a DAMN good idea." Dam.
Just a note, but I appreciate your statement on the psychological harm, in terms of existential dread, being unfortunately imposed upon young people today. News and social media headlines count on 'clicks', generally produced to evoke strong reaction. Being frequently confronted with the global threat climate change presents, has led to a very real feeling of existential fear for many. My generation had to deal with political assassinations, riots and social unrest over civil rights and the Vietnam War, and of course; the ever-present threat of whole-scale, extinction-event level nuclear war. I know that's not the topic of this video, but your observation on this was appreciated.
Awesomely done as always, keep up the great work! These topics are so interesting to hear about and you do them justice in the best way indeed.
I thought Jaws and you showed Jaws one second later.😂
I like how the IPCC casually tossed off "2 to 3 orders of magnitude" for how much worse coastal flooding could get. That's 100 to 1000 TIMES worse.
"It's gun B real bad" -IPCC
When I was young the existential threats were the Cold War and ozone layer. They were both resolved. Global warming can be mitigated by us too if we don't give up. I love this video because it's an action item to protect so many people. We need more out of the box thinking, and fast.
The Cold War (or at least the threat that mattered) is at least debatable, as there are still plenty of nuclear weapons around and they're still ready to launch on a moment's notice. The specific enemy of the Soviet Union is gone, but the threat is still around.
Ozone depletion has been addressed by actually doing something about the issue. With the Montreal Protocol resulting in the ban or substantial regulation of the most relevant pollutants, the problem will eventually resolve--assuming we don't recreate the issue in the future. No such action has been taken with CO2, as yet, at least not on the necessary scale to have a meaningful impact.
Apparently the hole in the ozone is opening back up again. 😢
@@LeeHalford Last saw as to the reason for that, it was mentioned in I think The China Show livestreams, that companies in China have stealthily gone back to using those ozone-depleting chemicals for the sake of their usual tendency to behave corruptly and cut corners for the sake of undercutting prices.
And yes in the 70’s they claimed an ice age was coming and then they claimed where I live would be underwater in 2010. Lol. The coastline is still in the same place for my 52 years of living. Lol. There is always some kind of new thing. Lol.
@@mikepalmer2219 It's almost like science isn't perfect, but it at least is constantly acquiring new knowledge with which to become more accurate in its predictions? Or do you think it's usual for there to be RAIN at the highest point of Greenland's ice sheet?
To keep shipping commerce going, they would need to open a pretty large set of locks....doable, but still adds to the expenses. But - an intriguing idea!
I love the detail.
Love the new look of the show!
Also....has Joe been working out?
Just a crazy idea I thought of that probably wouldn't work. What if instead of building up dams and raising city's , we flood land and make new massive lakes in places that are scarily populated. I remember reading somewere that there was a plan to flood the Sahara desert. Do you think that this could lower sea levels? Perhaps a future episode could touch up on this.
There are only a few small areas in the Sahara desert that lie below sealevel. It really wouldn’t have any impact.
When these plans were first made up a long time ago it was believed that most of the Sahara was below sealevel.
The centre of Australia was a sea/ really really big lake at some pint in history, there have been thought experiments on digging trenches from the coast to the centre and flood it again.
Very doable compared to the other suggestions .
11:03
The amount of power required to pump enough water to lower sea level would be astronomical.
Very cool that you mentioned the North sea damn! It would close off lots of big trade harbors though, not sure this'll make it. On the other hand, while we're at it, we could rebuild Rotterdam at Cornwall's Land's End 😂
There are things they call sluices.
You would need min 450m long sluices, not even counting for the fact that several shipbs would need to fit. doesn't seem easy to do@@wilsistermans1118
@@wilsistermans1118 And the Dutch are well equipped to make them...
The russians would not be delighted to have their submarine and warship sea lanes blocked from their only non-freezing port.
@@mb-3faze to be fair. the russian navy breaks down so ungodly often that it might genuinely be a better idea for russia to first build its navy back from the ground up.
When you mentioned that the 1930's Germans actually tried to engineer a new area of land, from the Mediterranean Seam to become a new nation, I was amazed.
Frankly...i did NOT SEE
that coming.
😅
Boooo! Booo this man
Agreed, surprised I never heard of this
Okay, hear me out: The Qattara Depression. It seems like a crazy idea, but that depression is DEEP. If they dug two or three canals from the Med to that depression, it could empty a lot of sea water into the desert, eventually creating the Qattara Sea.
My first thought about the NEED project was how it would affect trade. Quite a few important ports would be inside the area enclosed by the dam, including naval some cities. Actually that would apply to the Gibraltar dam too. How does the Suez Canal link up at the eastern end?
What effect would the drying of the Mediterranean have on the sea levels of the rest of the world?
who cares
Draining the Mediterranean would raise the rest of the oceans by about 10.5 meters. During the last Ice Age, ocean levels were up to 130 meters lower. Ideas to ponder.
Jaws. Exactly what I was thinking. Good shit bro
Where are you getting an elevation difference to create hydraulic power from?
I love this video so much, I traveled back in time a week to see it. ❤️
It was the Star Trek 1 connection 😂
Dam It
Wait you’re a Ted Lasso fan? New respect! ❤️❤️❤️
@@185MDEtake your schizo meds bro 😂
Lago Cocibolca, is a freshwater lake in Nicaragua and was once considered part of a route for a possible inter oceanic waterway. I found out about it when I was 12 (60yrs ago) or so and have considered it a better route than the Panama Canal since. The lake is only 32.7m above the Caribbean, it is 26m deep, and the Pacific can be seen from an island. Gatun Lake is an artificial freshwater lake 26m elevation on the Panama Canal. The deepest draft of a ship is 15.2m. There is an elevation drop of 20cm from the Pacific to the Caribbean so that could be a problem. The disaster is it would totally f the local ecology, society, and culture of the area. But money always finds a way.
6:45 Wouldn't using the dam to make hydropower directly conflict with the goal of keeping the water level in the Mediterreanean low?
Interesting topic!
And yes your soapbox is tall👏👏
The water that would be blocked by the dam has to go somewhere. I certainly can’t give numbers, but you’d think it would mean at least slightly higher sea level elsewhere given that the med would no longer be fully part of the global ocean. Hopefully they do a lot of modeling before they even consider it.
Stupid to even conceive of it.. nobody seems to realize how much trade goes through their on it's way to the Suez and beyond.