I'm more of a late bloomer and nearing my 30s. I'm very jealous of those who got into coding when they were 10 and became wizkids in their 20s. Only 4 years ago did I find answers & power to believe in myself. My version of making "toys" have been making levels for Doom & Quake & making small prototypes with Unity, Unreal & Godot. And getting into various tabletop rulesets and writing my own documents for purposes of game design. Gaming has been part of me my whole life & hopefully I still have time to grind my way into making some awesome games. Thanks for videos like these, Tim. And wouldn't mind having more topics that get technical as it relates to game making and business and design.
30 isn't old at all!! sad how people think they have to figure things out young when in reality, you have your entire life to figure things out :D learning is something we never stop doing our whole lives so I wouldn't get too down about not knowing stuff when you have DECADES to learn!!!!
Man, me too. I've always wanted to make games and I keep trying to learn but something somewhere, I think my confidence, just gets in my way and I kinda give up until next time. Self confidence and the ability to see an end goal really makes a difference. I'm trying to get there though. I hope everyone else with the same dream does too.
Hey mate, I say this to help, as I'm someone in his late 30's, I've wanted to make games my whole life, but like you I only found the confidence to try at age 36. Now I'm working my dream job in the games industry at a company where everyone is passionate about it. And I'm only 38, still a lot of years ahead of me, plus I'll be making games probably until I die! You're even younger, please recognise the good you have
I made a "game" with RPG Maker 15 years ago, for a German final in high school. We struggled and presented an unfinished product, but we learned a LOT and were given an A+
Making a game is 100% the way to get noticed! It shows that you have the basics to make something and can actually finish a project which is a massively underrated skill. I will say the common trap people fall into is making something too big. Just a short 5 minute demo is better than a 50 hour trudge.
Sometimes I became so overwhelmed by amount of people who want to work in game industry with their immense competence that can easily can make fun of mine.
It helps to remember that a lot of the artists with crazy skills don't even work on games full time. They might do some characters and assets, turn them in and that's it, they're on to their next projects. They don't get paid by the hour. Just don't limit yourself is my point.
Until I started working a full time job, I doubted everything I did. Now I feel like I can at the very least pick up anything and run with it, and see how far I can go. You'll not realize where your expertise lies and which areas you'd have unique ideas and skills in, unless you just try doing something to its completion. Sometimes you don't even need to be immensely competent. Just creative enough. It's a creative field after all.
It's quite satisfying hearing some "tough love" advice and knowing that I finally did exactly that. Got a demo live on Steam. It's modest, but it's mine and it's real. 😊
That's very true, thanks for this video! I see people struggling to find jobs these days but they literally have nothing to back them up other than finished IT courses, etc. I didn't have to make a game to get into the industry though. Only a Fallout fan website that was there for odd 15 years or so (started it when I was 15 myself). I translated articles and news from English, posted news. Also a forum boards were a part of it. So I got good with moderating, etc. This led to a community manager / PR / marketing positions which I did for 5 years. Then I switched to game design, and here I am. I guess, being passionate about what you do is the main thing. Do it long enough and you'll succeed.
People often discredit it pretty quickly, but if you take the time to learn it, RPG Maker is a fantastic and surprisingly robust engine. I have a (barely even a ) demo I've been chipping away at on-and-off for the past year where I'm experimenting with status effect combos in RPGs (an example being Envenomed + Poisoned = Immunocomprimised) and tying consumable items into character abilities (+ the challenges presented for balancing such a system) and I probably only spent... £30 - £80 (not including the price of RPG Maker, mind you.) on the project for assets and plugins.
I think this advice applies to pretty much most creative jobs, like film and TV too. No better application than pointing at something you've already made. Sucks for when you're first starting but it's a reality.
Friend sent this to me, even though I work in the industry since some years back I thought it would be interesting to see how it compares with my experience. I think it's varying by regions as well, and in my department (programming) it's becoming more and more common to ask for a degree. Having a Uni background is a good idea as well in case you're unable to get in the industry or get tired of it. I think at the end of the day it basically comes down to: a lot of people want to work with games, even more people think they do. You need an "exceptional" amount of passion and motivation to break past the droves of applicants for a lot of these jobs unless you get lucky and run into the right people at the right time. When I went to uni I was spending literally all of my spare time programming games and game engines, I still ride on the knowledge I gained from that in interviews. If I were to give advice to a ~20-25 year old on how to get into the industry, it would be to either look for a clear/direct path that is established through something like a school that does internship with a supreme record of people being hired at the end of their internships, or if that is not an option, grind hardcore programming and work on your soft skills and charisma to make sure you always land the job if you get to an actual interview. Other options can be to look for contracting firms that focus on the games industry, which would let you build some contacts and references. Once you have your first job in the industry you'll be spammed on LinkedIn with interview offers left and right, it's just very hard to get the first one.
To be fair, that's my problem. I'm not paying for college to get a degree with something I know how to do. I don't have the luxury of attending school for the off chance of getting a job. It was my dream to get my portfolio together and get myself a coding or graphics production job. Yeah... I have the skills, but that dream died. I've never wanted to solo a project, I'm more of the guy who lives off making someone else's ideas a reality. It was a perfect job for my adhd until I realized that skills mattered less than a degree. I made my first full game in high school; wrote it, designed it, coded it, made it all by myself. It's still in my portfolio. Before it was "I'm too young" and now it's gone to "well we have candidates with degrees..." It sucks dude. I'll be doing this my whole life, but I've decided I'm not going to sell anything. The industry sucks and there are programming jobs everywhere. I just wish I knew that before I wasted a decade on a child's dream.
As someone who is very interested in design but not very confident about working in the industry, this was an extremely cool video. Bleak as the world seems these days, little success stories like these and relevant calls to action leave a seed of hope. The framed coupon and (very) early drafts were also just awesome to see.
This is really good advice that's super hard to follow. Especially for somebody with a family. I have been working on a game for years but take long breaks because of life.
@@CainOnGames even more good advice. The game I am working on is a brick breaking\shooter\bullet hell. I have a few levels designed already but keep thinking of new enemy types that I want to implement. Good ol' feature creep, you know. But, I really do just want to get a dozen or so levels made and polished then purchase some art\animations that will make it pop. So, I have a nice demo and can concentrate on other projects, like a heavily inspired by Arcanum ttrpg system I started a couple years ago. I'm sure you hear this all the time but I really love your work. I have only really played Arcanum and Temple but, especially the former, has really shaped my love of rpgs.
I've often wondered if game developers can play and enjoy their game after they're finished with it, especially RPGs and games focused on telling a story. I could see how after spending years making it, that you would know it inside and out and not want to play it.
I’ve gone back and played some of my older games, like Fallout, Arcanum, and Temple. But you’re right, after playing The Outer Worlds from start to finish 16 times before it shipped, I haven’t gone back to it…yet.
I appreciate this video. I started work on my possibly 100th unity project. The last few I worked on I felt burnt out at a point. I need to scale things down for myself and I'm not much of an artist the more of a technical guy so maybe I should just swallow my pride and use a game asset or two. Art tends to burn me out. Im gunna finish this game.
This is priceless advice. Thank you so much. I've been struggling with inattentive ADHD, which can make working on personal projects really difficult without an intense, consistent motivator. It's really frustrating, as somebody who has plenty of passion and ideas to spare. But working in the games industry is my dream career- making a game so that I can get a job making games is a fantastic goal that's easy to keep in mind and work towards.
I am so happy you gave this advice Tim. I’m in my early 30s starting a 3D art career from scratch and currently finishing a BFA in animation. My senior thesis project will be an exploration game based on a setting I plan on branding for a future tabletop game (or video game!) If the path to glory is the one I’m already on then I’ll see you at the next check point. Looking forward to more career and advice videos.
Wise words Tim! I agree with everything you said - Ideas can be spoken and written, but at the end of the day, that doesn't show off the environments, how characters speak, and most importantly how these ideas feel. Hiring people based on their word is a gamble - so I truly understand where you're coming from. The most effective way is by showing your ideas off via Footage; that stimulates the mind and guarantees whoever is hiring you or even just looking to join you on a Project that you know exactly what you're doing and aren't just going to be spit balling ideas around headquarters - you're putting them in the shoes of a customer, "hey, if I like it, I bet someone in my audience will."
thanks very much!I definitely I will try this.Its gonna take me a lot of time but I will never give up!Greatings from spain!This is an extremely rare and awesome advice
"Now, I don't think my advice to you is, the best way to get in the games industry is to have knowledge of a computers extended graphics modes that no-one else in a 50 mile radius has." You underestimate the power of my autism! All jokes aside, you'll get no arguments from me on your advice. In fact, you're speaking my language! And your advice is identical to Todd Howard's. He has been in many interviews and got asked the same question, with the same answer. When Todd said it, it really motivated me to learn game engines & programming that day. Which has been a couple years from now, I think. Glad to hear that same advice reinforced here. Great video, Tim! I like the stuff you guys have made in the industry! Also, regarding the matter of "no shakespeares of game dev." yes, it might not happen. but it could be stimulated by the industry itself. I read an article that said that games industry is too young to realize the value of authorship. Where game devs should sell their names along side their projects and ensure quality that comes with the name. If people get that idea in their heads, the indstustry might get more shakespeares and kojimas. But the million dollar question is; does anyone care enough to do it? At corporate/think tank -level or at grass roots level?
Hey Tim, Would you say creating mods for existing games helps with employability in the industry? I imagine it would help circumvent the issue of being unable to create art and the like, whilst still demonstrating capability in other areas such as programming, script-writing, etc.
Kingbdogs got hired to Mojang and bethesda hired an entire mod team and sent them to work on fo76 wastlanders. Bethesda regularly hires modders, so does valve and Mojang.
I made a mod for an indie game called Rain World that added a new challenge mode. The developer/publisher contracted me to port the mod to an upcoming DLC they were making. I remade the whole thing from scratch and added new content that complimented the stuff being added by the DLC. This became the Expedition game mode in the Downpour DLC. The person that reached out to me asking if I wanted to be on the project was also previously a modder who had been hired on as the lead programmer for the DLC. So it was a mix of both experience and contacts in the modding community that made it a reality.
If I'm not mistaken several members of the team who made the Galactic Conquest mod for Battlefield 1942 were hired by EA to work on the very first Battlefront game; which was basically an polished / officially licensed version of that mod.
Thanks for yet another excellent video! It would be great if you could share compensation info for different roles in the game industry and how they change with experience in the space. Thanks!
Salutaions Tim Cain, This video was a wake up call for me. I have been struggleing fot the past two years or so with my journey in my degree in Game Development from Full Sail University. I always stopped myself that I am not good enough to make anything and stubborn to use premade assets etc. alot of exuses and self shame. honestly my dream would be working at the succeser to interplay, Obsidian but that will be in a while. hopefully everything goes well and I graduate next year. I will try my hardest to make something outside of my education program and hope to shake hands with someone like you one day.
A good way to get into game industry is to start as a Quality Assurance tester. Quite a few companies (this will differ based on the country you live in) hire pretty much anyone who finished highschool and is somewhat decent/fluent at English, observant and eager to learn. If you are good enough, you will make it higher in the QA and then you have a chance to get into Game Dev, as long as you have a skill as a designer or an artist, but you can skip that entirely and do as Tim said, make your own game, keep your code clean and present it to someone. Many companies are recruiting and quite often they won't care about advanced knowledge (they will teach you anyway while you work) and they want to know the way you think about solving problems.
Unfortunately these jobs tend to pay terribly, treat you like s***, or both. I recently rejected an offer from Activision Blizzard because they offered less than what was mentioned in the original communication, and the interview was so awkward, nothing seemed right. That job would've effectively brought me many steps closer to my dream job, but I hated the whole thing.
Only get into QA if you like QA, I love it but it's not a fun job if you don't like it, and working a job you don't like isn't gonna take you anywhere. Maybe back in the day this progression was a thing, but as a professional in the QA area and manager for several years now there are also a lot better QA jobs outside of the gaming industry, and opportunities are limited there. If you want to get into game dev it's simple, just make games. It's easier than ever to make them, and also publish them in some way, whether publishing projects as open source code for recruiters or hiring managers to see or as an indie dev for demo/making small income. Edit: I promise you I made this comment before I got to what Tim said at the end. :)
QA can be great on its own, but I wouldn't recommend going into it specifically to get into dev work. You can learn a lot doing it and it won't hurt to have on your resume, but I've worked in QA for almost three years now and very rarely I've seen any opportunities to get into dev. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's becoming less of a thing now, and most opportunities for advancement are just higher in the QA department. What Tim said is probably best, make a game or look for people making them and try to get into an indie team if you want to focus on your lane specifically. The majority of job listings in game dev will want you to have at least one shipped game under your belt from the get go anyway.
hi tim, thanks for the advice, it is very helpful especially if it comes from you. I have always liked video games and today at the age of 23 I decided to start programming, I am still learning the basics and this gives me the necessary motivation to continue, I know I can do great things, and your videos inspire me a lot. PD: You have made several of my favorite games so you have no idea how excited I am to hear you in these videos.
Ive been catching up on your youtube channel as ive recently found it! Big fan of interplay and obsidian and a lot of rhe ganes youve been involved with. I think your story emphasises that if you have enough passion for something, you have a high probability of succeeding. Im not a game dev, but i do use coding for my day job. I definitely had similarities to yourselves with getting involved in tech from as early as i can remember I would love to make a game. your channel is fantastic!
This is how I did it. I got a job at a small game company from a handful of things I made in GameMaker and Unity, I moved onto non-game tech roles but thats how I got started.
Well this gives me assurance that Im on the right track. I graduated from college last December but havent had luck finding a job so I put most of my energy into learning to make games in unreal. And I even went the extra step to code as much as I could in C++ so I have something to show incase I couldnt get a games industry job
When I was a teen, I've never gotten into gamedev since they thought I wasn't qualified. Now many years later being a CTO of a huge hi-tech enterprise I'm clearly overqualified. There's no justice in this world.
Hey Tim, I'm at my mid 30's and end up in Mexico's film industry to be specific in post production (film editing, VFX, and VFX supervising). However I never got over the fact I want to make a game, so I being just writing desing for an tabletop RPG and making maps of quake (haven't finished any of those though)... What I'm going is... Is it worth still trying to pursue a career out of it?
I hadn't considered the idea of buying a premade game to showcase my skills... I could implement writing and art into such a premade, and expand it just as you suggest. Maybe that is the stepping stone I need to get going. I cannot appreciate your videos enough. Now I have a lot of work to do and a clearer vision.
When you said your advice was going to have some tough love attached to it, I steeled myself; however, your advice ultimately made me chuckle because I’ve had that exact thought. I’m not a coder, and I’m not a good artist. But I can write pretty damn well. What games require primarily writing? Text adventures. I got explicitly into making/writing text adventure games because of my own limitations. Even though I’m still learning the basics of game design, I have made more progress than I ever expected to make, even as a hobbyist, because I found a game type and related engine that allowed me to play to my strength. Given how open and accessible game development has become, I think your advice rings more true now more than ever.
I am a 2D/3D artist. I was thinking of making my own game. A lot of job applications actually ask the questions ‘how many (shipped) games have you worked on’. So, with making your own you can say 1 with a great story!
I watched a video of a younger ex indie dev who has advice is if you know what youre good at a short demo of it preferably also a short video and a blog shwogng your work will work. And his advice did land jobs to some people already. You dont have to make a whole game because thst takes long. Good tip about showing your strenght by modding someone elses project, Tim.
It's interesting cuz as a film major, the #1 advice is always "make films", and to get in the games industry your advice is "make games". I am fully in on this mindset of making final products, however, people around me seem to doubt this strategy (lol), as I continue to work a dead end job and grind out 'personal projects'
As a game dev trying to get their foot in the door, this video definitely helped. Decided to learn a new game engine recently because I have a limited amount of coding knowledge and thought it would be a great way to improve. I've also been using Twine to hone my writing skills which is easier than, say, booting up Unreal or Unity. I've done QA testing before but this is what I needed to hear, thank you for this Tim.
@@cadcad-jm3pf I've been spinning both plates at once. I'd love to focus on getting hired by a company but hardly anyone in my area is looking for somebody with my experience, because I don't have that much. I get what you're saying though.
When you said I would be upset about your advice, I was prepared for the worst Instead I'm happy my own research paid off and I've already been doing that
6:40 I've thought a lot about this since the first time I started game development, and I can't believe I'm right. I have no degree so this is the only thing that I hold onto!
it sounds like you had a natural understanding of the coding complex that allowed you to get into the industry above all else, although I get what your saying, actually its kind of funny I used to modify Valve based assets in their coding and basically self patch and fix and fiddle with the AI, mostly minor simple things with the console commands, but the main thing was the programing and the variables were not encoded so you could just mod them as you see fit which alot did
Hey Tim, i want to say that I`m a huge Fan of Fallout 1 & 2 are my favorite Video games of all time and a big Thank you for craeting this World for us. I`m currently working on a Story for a Fallout RPG "The return of the Master". It take placed be between Fallout 1 and 2, and 100 Years after the Bombs (2177). A piece of the Master survied, and the enclave found this piece and starts experiments (a little bit like the Movie Akira), Vault 14 opens, people starts to disapearing again etc. . I made a map with all the old locations from Fallout 1 with Vegas and a part of Arizona. Do you got any suggestions for me? Because i will be the GM.
The more I've heard about how many people in the game industry are treated, particularly among AAA companies, the less interested I've been in being part of it. It doesn't help there are so few games these days that I would even have any interest in working on, outside of getting a paycheck.
I get what you are saying. But pick any industry and I will show you people being treated badly in it. Plus, you don't need to go AAA. Indie gaming is a vibrant place!
@@CainOnGames That's true! That's the only part of the game industry that sounds interesting to me. From all the stories I've heard, working for EA or Activison Blizzard sounds like a dystopian nightmare, but if you could find a niche making small games with a small team of people genuinely working on the kind of games they're passionate about? I would be totally on board for that.
The few people I knew who got into the gaming industry got burned out of it by about eight years of near endless crunch. They all proceeded to get into developing software for oil and gas companies, making much more money and a lot more free time. The gaming industry isn't for everyone. Even the people who think it is for them might quickly learn how rough it can be.
@@Mirokuofnite Reading about the game industry introduced me to a Kotaku article and the Bioware concept of a 'stress casualty', or someone who has a mental breakdown from the stress of overwork and have a doctor-mandated period of weeks or months in which they're sent home. Supposedly they had a lot of these while developing Mass Effect: Andromeda and Anthem. Both games, incidentally, that most people seem to regard as somewhere between mediocre and terrible. So the developers drove themselves so hard they had mental breakdowns over games that, once released, failed and were mostly ridiculed. Yeah, hard pass on that.
I do think it is the best advice one can get, but it does not seem to be enough nowadays, even when asking for half the wage I could get by programming a soulless banking system. Personally I've recently gave it a good final try, but eventually started coming to terms with giving up on it. Blessed are those skilled at networking.
If making a game sounds too challenging, start from modding. Join a modding team, they are usually made up from amateurs, and they will happily take in anyone who is ready to put some hours in, learn from others. Make levels for games that come with an editor and send them to friends to gather feedback. I've done some modding back in high school and uni, and I now work in an unrelated field, but I'm still getting occasional freelance jobs as a level designer because of that modding experience 10-15 years ago. It's like having a paid hobby!
So if I were to go and make a game in another game like Roblox or Minecraft, would that be the same as making a game? I'm not very good at coding, but I can understand things like block coding very easy. Also, thank you for sharing your knowledge in the industry!
I think it helps to understand why having a sample is crucial. Game development is essentially an eternal "get sh*t done yesterday" industry and by extension it does not like "unproven" people, companies won't look at people based on their ideas or unrealized potential since it has no inherent value in term of getting the current job done. And even worse, being unproven means high risk of having to extensively train the newcomer for a lengthy period for them to be of any use, which does not exclude the risk that they might've romanticized the industry in their mind and after few months they'll realize it's not for them and just quit. This is why proving yourself is greatest service you can do to yourself. Based on personal experience i would recommend couple of things: 1)Identify what is your key area of interest/skill and specialize in that. It usually is the case with own projects, be it games or mods that you have to do everything by yourself. However the important thing is that company potentially hiring you wants a very specific person. I think there's a fairly specific but common kind of people in the industry interviews who are ready to agree to anything, just to work in the industry and it's kind of a suicidal approach in more ways than one. Generally a person that knows "a fair bit of everything" is crucial to a project but it's not a person the company will be hiring off the street with no experience, since this kind of role usually will belong to key seniority/leadership positions that also come in pair with communication skills necessary to coordinate each team and understand what they're doing and this won't be you, not for a long time. 2)Start as early as you can, generally speaking in most countries being a student does help a lot since you're a lot cheaper business-wise. Over the time a lot of people have used (and still preach) using QA as a wedge into the industry - this doesn't always work but circumstances vary greatly based on your "local" industry landscape. It also depends on how the company perceives QA, whether it's essentially paid players who are just meant to note down basic reproduction steps or actual QA made of people who understand both the project and the engine and can actually figure out probable causes and possible implications of the issue to prioritize them (besides basic "it crashes so it's bad"). On the other hand - if your perception of QA is strictly "i get to play games and i'll be getting money for it", it's also a bad answer and even if company would hire you out of desperation or stupidity after such answer - you'll start hating the game with distilled passion by the end of the project. You aren't strictly "playing" the game, you will be doing lots of repetitive tasks to pinpoint specific issue, writing it down and retesting it several times then also going back to previous issue to see whether current issue being fixed didn't bring back any previously solved issues and so on and so forth - repeat until release (well, usually even after that). Another popular angle of approach nowadays is mobile industry with Unity, mostly because mobile games have low entry barrier and bring in incredible amounts of money so by extension there's a lot of small time (or even outright shoddy) studios which will hire literally anyone to just work as a craftsman to help with shoveling out next generic mobile game. This obviously means working likely below your ambitions and possibly even in less than ideal (or legal) environment but in terms of proving yourself - commercial experience is still experience. 3)If you are still a bit too young, you can still get going - tinker with the engines, learn your desired field and disassemble existing games to pieces to learn how they're made. Generally speaking, if you identify a company you'd like to work for, in this day and age they're likely using a popular commercial engine which you can learn as well giving you a head start. From personal experience i would say that this is not a guarantee of anything but as a general consensus i would say it surely does help so there's no reason to not do that if you have the time.
i've got a pretty huge asset and code library i've curated over the years and a github i've kept updated for atleast the last 3... I love plumbing as a career tbh
I worked as an HR, I lived in a country where Gaming industry is virtually nonexistent. I'd love to try working in gaming industry but, I don't know where to start. (I was looking to become QA, because my background isn't programming/animator/IT).
I did make a game. It didn't help. I still think the advice is good, the problem is how flooded the job market is. Practically Weimar levels of unemployment. HR is also a big roadblock, often time it's a person who has no idea how things work that filter out a resume and they'll trash one they don't "feel" about without a second thought or a shed of remorse. You mentioned providing the source code, which is something I do. The thing is, I never get returns on the quality of my job. Could you elaborate upon what it is you are looking for in someone's code? What sets people apart?
Hello Tim, I'm in need of advice. If you can help me that would be awesome. First of I have basic Java coding knowledge, I struggle to find an engine which can work with...well Java. Any game engines where Java can be used? 2nd is for a beginner/rookie/wannabe game dev, which type of game should be easiest to develop? I am torn between Shooter, 2D sidescroller and visual novel. Thanks in advance.
Late to the discussion, but wanted to add something for people who got stressed out at the advice: "Make a game" doesn't mean make the next Fallout, Final Fantasy, Terraria, Minecraft, or Stardew Valley. That is, your game doesn't have to be some one-person passion project, it doesn't have to be a 40-hour epic that changes the world, and it doesn't have to sell gangbusters. It doesn't even have to be original - replicating the mechanics of something like Zelda or Pokemon from scratch is the perfect project for a portfolio piece. (As long as you're not including sprites and such from the actual games, obviously.) In this context, the advice "make a game" basically means "have a portfolio." It's not just about proving that you're not bluffing by being a good interviewee - it also puts you on even footing with your interviewer. It lets you come equipped with confidence because you have something you'll understand intimately. Instead of discussing hypotheticals, you're able to discuss something you've been poring over for who knows how long. You can discuss how you tracked down a specific bug that took a while to fix - instead of trying to come up with a work-friendly story of a time you "persevered in the face of adversity". That sort of thing. You also don't need to spend the next five to seven years building up a portfolio just to get an entry level position. Hell, Tim's example of hiring a programmer whose project wasn't finished because the source code was really well put-together is a great example. It's just about saying, "Hey, here's a small project, here's how often I was able to commit to working on it, here's the progress I made, here's how I'd do it differently, and here's the next steps." Mind you, I work in IT - not development. But I mentioned that I was working on a small programming project during my interview and that instantly got everyone's attention. I've been on the hiring committee for other employees since then - it's a goddamn slog hiring for an entry level position. And it's no fault of the interviewee, either. It's just hard to judge how well a person will do when they don't have experience that they can't get outside of the entry-level job they're applying for. The interviews that went best were the ones where we ended up talking shop about work-adjacent roles, even when they weren't directly related but the experiences carried over. Dealing with users in IT versus dealing with customers in retail, for example. Plus, game developers are nerdy folks. If you've got a small project you're passionate about, it's a chance to share the experience with someone who likely understands that passion. Even if it's not your dream project, it's the passion to get employed. We're all here because we love hearing Tim's stories - so just think of the interview as a chance to talk with someone who actually understands the goal of your project instead of trying to explain it to any non-techie folks around you. You're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you.
I'm a Tech recruiter looking to pivot my career into the gaming industry. I'd like to know more about demand and salaries, and where to get more information about it. On the other hand, do you think is worth it? Since there were a lot of massive layoffs lately
Funny enough I started writing to companies when I was 12. Edit: I remember knocking on splash damages door and asking them how to get a job in the industry (many many years ago before the tech and free information that we have today was available) and they said "work on a mod".
Hey tim, Is it true that the orignal plot for fallout before being about post Apocalyptic was about wacky time travel Shenanigans? Heres a summary someone told me "You buy a house. In the basement is a magic statue. Something happens with a girlfriend. So you use the statue to travel time. You get planet of the apes, then war of the world, then a nuclear apocylapse, DINOSAUR INVASION, then if that wasnt wild enough there was something about king kong with jimmy hoffa in his hand, time travel madness. Just madness. Then it ends with a twilight zone momment where you become the statue in your basement." Well i lied i added in jimmy hoffa, other then that its all what they told me
Would you ever consider pursuing teaching? I'm currently enrolled in a game design program and, just from watching these among your other talks, or podcasts you've been on, A lecture from you would be a great excuse to obtain more substantial student debt lol
1. Come from programming family[sister also into programming] 2. Have connections 3. Have skills 4. Hope your not life crash by illness/mental disorder 5. Congratulations
On the topic at hand, I reached a point where I find it really hard to be satisfied by games today. :( Then, out of boredom, I started making my own game. Still very early, but has one core mechanic I always wanted and have never seen before. Let's see if I can pull it off :)
Does this also apply when you want to work into the Graphics Pipeline and maybe physics engine? I can imagine you can waste your time not getting into the depth of the engineering part of it. Also I can't imagine 3D game studios hiring someone who spent their time writing flappy birds clones to work on the next spiderman or starwars game.
So what about those of us that have made a game, have a portfolio showing several small games, some made solo but most made on a team and you're still getting nothing back? no interviews, no attention?
How does someone get a job in QA for video games? I work as a lead technical tester for testing our bespoke software on embedded hardware, I feel that my skills aren't being utilised as much, I wouldn't mind trying QA in the game industry to see how it compares. I can write in Python and Java, I did some C# in university (switched to a CCNA course after 1st year)
I agree. Realization skill is far more important than just great ideas, most of which will die along with us. Learned this a hard way from GameDev and QA/QC experience since the 2000s.
Making a game as an Indy solo act is all that is really required to be a professional game developer. A graphic artist could code something in Unity with a little bit of diligence and sell their product through Steam. Notch coded Minecraft in Java with simple 6 sided cubes and low-res texture maps for graphical fidelity. The barrier to entry is nowhere near what it was 20 years ago. If you want to be a game developer, you simply just have to do it. Now for my question Mr. Cain, how do I get invited into a worthwhile writer's room?
I'm more of a late bloomer and nearing my 30s. I'm very jealous of those who got into coding when they were 10 and became wizkids in their 20s. Only 4 years ago did I find answers & power to believe in myself. My version of making "toys" have been making levels for Doom & Quake & making small prototypes with Unity, Unreal & Godot. And getting into various tabletop rulesets and writing my own documents for purposes of game design. Gaming has been part of me my whole life & hopefully I still have time to grind my way into making some awesome games. Thanks for videos like these, Tim. And wouldn't mind having more topics that get technical as it relates to game making and business and design.
You act like you're nearing 50. You're only in your late twenties dude, that's plenty of time to start a new career.
@@zenmastakilla Yeah, I have somewhat of an aging crisis for wasting my 20s... Life is short.
30 isn't old at all!! sad how people think they have to figure things out young when in reality, you have your entire life to figure things out :D learning is something we never stop doing our whole lives so I wouldn't get too down about not knowing stuff when you have DECADES to learn!!!!
Man, me too. I've always wanted to make games and I keep trying to learn but something somewhere, I think my confidence, just gets in my way and I kinda give up until next time. Self confidence and the ability to see an end goal really makes a difference. I'm trying to get there though. I hope everyone else with the same dream does too.
Hey mate, I say this to help, as I'm someone in his late 30's, I've wanted to make games my whole life, but like you I only found the confidence to try at age 36. Now I'm working my dream job in the games industry at a company where everyone is passionate about it. And I'm only 38, still a lot of years ahead of me, plus I'll be making games probably until I die! You're even younger, please recognise the good you have
Your mother sounds like a wonderful person, Tim. Very supportive of your passions.
I made a "game" with RPG Maker 15 years ago, for a German final in high school. We struggled and presented an unfinished product, but we learned a LOT and were given an A+
Nice name LOL
@@lvsoad22 Thanks, I have big plans for it.
Making a game is 100% the way to get noticed! It shows that you have the basics to make something and can actually finish a project which is a massively underrated skill. I will say the common trap people fall into is making something too big. Just a short 5 minute demo is better than a 50 hour trudge.
Sometimes I became so overwhelmed by amount of people who want to work in game industry with their immense competence that can easily can make fun of mine.
It helps to remember that a lot of the artists with crazy skills don't even work on games full time. They might do some characters and assets, turn them in and that's it, they're on to their next projects. They don't get paid by the hour. Just don't limit yourself is my point.
Until I started working a full time job, I doubted everything I did. Now I feel like I can at the very least pick up anything and run with it, and see how far I can go. You'll not realize where your expertise lies and which areas you'd have unique ideas and skills in, unless you just try doing something to its completion. Sometimes you don't even need to be immensely competent. Just creative enough. It's a creative field after all.
It's quite satisfying hearing some "tough love" advice and knowing that I finally did exactly that. Got a demo live on Steam. It's modest, but it's mine and it's real. 😊
Nice man - what's the name? Would love to support it as someone going through the same journey :)
That's very true, thanks for this video! I see people struggling to find jobs these days but they literally have nothing to back them up other than finished IT courses, etc. I didn't have to make a game to get into the industry though. Only a Fallout fan website that was there for odd 15 years or so (started it when I was 15 myself). I translated articles and news from English, posted news. Also a forum boards were a part of it. So I got good with moderating, etc. This led to a community manager / PR / marketing positions which I did for 5 years. Then I switched to game design, and here I am. I guess, being passionate about what you do is the main thing. Do it long enough and you'll succeed.
People often discredit it pretty quickly, but if you take the time to learn it, RPG Maker is a fantastic and surprisingly robust engine. I have a (barely even a ) demo I've been chipping away at on-and-off for the past year where I'm experimenting with status effect combos in RPGs (an example being Envenomed + Poisoned = Immunocomprimised) and tying consumable items into character abilities (+ the challenges presented for balancing such a system) and I probably only spent... £30 - £80 (not including the price of RPG Maker, mind you.) on the project for assets and plugins.
rpgmaker has created some of the most soulful indie games ever
I’ve only seen people being angry at the RPG. maker, because you cant debug and the limitations are too big
I think this advice applies to pretty much most creative jobs, like film and TV too. No better application than pointing at something you've already made.
Sucks for when you're first starting but it's a reality.
Friend sent this to me, even though I work in the industry since some years back I thought it would be interesting to see how it compares with my experience. I think it's varying by regions as well, and in my department (programming) it's becoming more and more common to ask for a degree. Having a Uni background is a good idea as well in case you're unable to get in the industry or get tired of it.
I think at the end of the day it basically comes down to: a lot of people want to work with games, even more people think they do. You need an "exceptional" amount of passion and motivation to break past the droves of applicants for a lot of these jobs unless you get lucky and run into the right people at the right time. When I went to uni I was spending literally all of my spare time programming games and game engines, I still ride on the knowledge I gained from that in interviews.
If I were to give advice to a ~20-25 year old on how to get into the industry, it would be to either look for a clear/direct path that is established through something like a school that does internship with a supreme record of people being hired at the end of their internships, or if that is not an option, grind hardcore programming and work on your soft skills and charisma to make sure you always land the job if you get to an actual interview.
Other options can be to look for contracting firms that focus on the games industry, which would let you build some contacts and references.
Once you have your first job in the industry you'll be spammed on LinkedIn with interview offers left and right, it's just very hard to get the first one.
To be fair, that's my problem. I'm not paying for college to get a degree with something I know how to do. I don't have the luxury of attending school for the off chance of getting a job.
It was my dream to get my portfolio together and get myself a coding or graphics production job. Yeah... I have the skills, but that dream died. I've never wanted to solo a project, I'm more of the guy who lives off making someone else's ideas a reality. It was a perfect job for my adhd until I realized that skills mattered less than a degree.
I made my first full game in high school; wrote it, designed it, coded it, made it all by myself. It's still in my portfolio. Before it was "I'm too young" and now it's gone to "well we have candidates with degrees..."
It sucks dude. I'll be doing this my whole life, but I've decided I'm not going to sell anything. The industry sucks and there are programming jobs everywhere. I just wish I knew that before I wasted a decade on a child's dream.
As someone who is very interested in design but not very confident about working in the industry, this was an extremely cool video. Bleak as the world seems these days, little success stories like these and relevant calls to action leave a seed of hope. The framed coupon and (very) early drafts were also just awesome to see.
This is really good advice that's super hard to follow. Especially for somebody with a family. I have been working on a game for years but take long breaks because of life.
Rescope your game. I don't look for a complete game. Even a level that shows off your ability to code, animate, write, or whatever is very impressive.
@@CainOnGames even more good advice. The game I am working on is a brick breaking\shooter\bullet hell. I have a few levels designed already but keep thinking of new enemy types that I want to implement. Good ol' feature creep, you know. But, I really do just want to get a dozen or so levels made and polished then purchase some art\animations that will make it pop. So, I have a nice demo and can concentrate on other projects, like a heavily inspired by Arcanum ttrpg system I started a couple years ago.
I'm sure you hear this all the time but I really love your work. I have only really played Arcanum and Temple but, especially the former, has really shaped my love of rpgs.
@@michaelblosenhauer9887 SHOW USSSSS
I've often wondered if game developers can play and enjoy their game after they're finished with it, especially RPGs and games focused on telling a story. I could see how after spending years making it, that you would know it inside and out and not want to play it.
I’ve gone back and played some of my older games, like Fallout, Arcanum, and Temple. But you’re right, after playing The Outer Worlds from start to finish 16 times before it shipped, I haven’t gone back to it…yet.
I appreciate this video. I started work on my possibly 100th unity project. The last few I worked on I felt burnt out at a point. I need to scale things down for myself and I'm not much of an artist the more of a technical guy so maybe I should just swallow my pride and use a game asset or two. Art tends to burn me out.
Im gunna finish this game.
Thank you sir for showing us the way into game industry. I am going to do my best and follow your advice. Thank you so much!!!
This is priceless advice. Thank you so much. I've been struggling with inattentive ADHD, which can make working on personal projects really difficult without an intense, consistent motivator. It's really frustrating, as somebody who has plenty of passion and ideas to spare. But working in the games industry is my dream career- making a game so that I can get a job making games is a fantastic goal that's easy to keep in mind and work towards.
Fantastic story. What a magical time it was for computing back then. Cheers, Timothy!
I am so happy you gave this advice Tim. I’m in my early 30s starting a 3D art career from scratch and currently finishing a BFA in animation. My senior thesis project will be an exploration game based on a setting I plan on branding for a future tabletop game (or video game!) If the path to glory is the one I’m already on then I’ll see you at the next check point. Looking forward to more career and advice videos.
Wise words Tim! I agree with everything you said - Ideas can be spoken and written, but at the end of the day, that doesn't show off the environments, how characters speak, and most importantly how these ideas feel. Hiring people based on their word is a gamble - so I truly understand where you're coming from. The most effective way is by showing your ideas off via Footage; that stimulates the mind and guarantees whoever is hiring you or even just looking to join you on a Project that you know exactly what you're doing and aren't just going to be spit balling ideas around headquarters - you're putting them in the shoes of a customer, "hey, if I like it, I bet someone in my audience will."
thanks very much!I definitely I will try this.Its gonna take me a lot of time but I will never give up!Greatings from spain!This is an extremely rare and awesome advice
"Now, I don't think my advice to you is, the best way to get in the games industry is to have knowledge of a computers extended graphics modes that no-one else in a 50 mile radius has."
You underestimate the power of my autism! All jokes aside, you'll get no arguments from me on your advice. In fact, you're speaking my language! And your advice is identical to Todd Howard's. He has been in many interviews and got asked the same question, with the same answer. When Todd said it, it really motivated me to learn game engines & programming that day. Which has been a couple years from now, I think. Glad to hear that same advice reinforced here. Great video, Tim! I like the stuff you guys have made in the industry!
Also, regarding the matter of "no shakespeares of game dev." yes, it might not happen. but it could be stimulated by the industry itself. I read an article that said that games industry is too young to realize the value of authorship. Where game devs should sell their names along side their projects and ensure quality that comes with the name. If people get that idea in their heads, the indstustry might get more shakespeares and kojimas.
But the million dollar question is; does anyone care enough to do it? At corporate/think tank -level or at grass roots level?
Job well done. Thanks for a well thought video!
Your storytelling is awesome! Also you seem like you would be a great teacher as you passion for the industry really shows.
Hey Tim,
Would you say creating mods for existing games helps with employability in the industry? I imagine it would help circumvent the issue of being unable to create art and the like, whilst still demonstrating capability in other areas such as programming, script-writing, etc.
Yes, making mods helps people get jobs. We hired a mod maker at Obsidian!
Jorge Salgado, the guy who created Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul.
Kingbdogs got hired to Mojang and bethesda hired an entire mod team and sent them to work on fo76 wastlanders. Bethesda regularly hires modders, so does valve and Mojang.
I made a mod for an indie game called Rain World that added a new challenge mode. The developer/publisher contracted me to port the mod to an upcoming DLC they were making. I remade the whole thing from scratch and added new content that complimented the stuff being added by the DLC. This became the Expedition game mode in the Downpour DLC.
The person that reached out to me asking if I wanted to be on the project was also previously a modder who had been hired on as the lead programmer for the DLC. So it was a mix of both experience and contacts in the modding community that made it a reality.
If I'm not mistaken several members of the team who made the Galactic Conquest mod for Battlefield 1942 were hired by EA to work on the very first Battlefront game; which was basically an polished / officially licensed version of that mod.
I'm trying to break into the industry by making my own game. Thank you for this video. This was helpful.
No Excuse! Thank you for this motivational talk Tim💪
Thanks for yet another excellent video!
It would be great if you could share compensation info for different roles in the game industry and how they change with experience in the space.
Thanks!
Salutaions Tim Cain, This video was a wake up call for me. I have been struggleing fot the past two years or so with my journey in my degree in Game Development from Full Sail University. I always stopped myself that I am not good enough to make anything and stubborn to use premade assets etc. alot of exuses and self shame. honestly my dream would be working at the succeser to interplay, Obsidian but that will be in a while. hopefully everything goes well and I graduate next year. I will try my hardest to make something outside of my education program and hope to shake hands with someone like you one day.
A good way to get into game industry is to start as a Quality Assurance tester. Quite a few companies (this will differ based on the country you live in) hire pretty much anyone who finished highschool and is somewhat decent/fluent at English, observant and eager to learn. If you are good enough, you will make it higher in the QA and then you have a chance to get into Game Dev, as long as you have a skill as a designer or an artist, but you can skip that entirely and do as Tim said, make your own game, keep your code clean and present it to someone. Many companies are recruiting and quite often they won't care about advanced knowledge (they will teach you anyway while you work) and they want to know the way you think about solving problems.
Unfortunately these jobs tend to pay terribly, treat you like s***, or both. I recently rejected an offer from Activision Blizzard because they offered less than what was mentioned in the original communication, and the interview was so awkward, nothing seemed right.
That job would've effectively brought me many steps closer to my dream job, but I hated the whole thing.
Only get into QA if you like QA, I love it but it's not a fun job if you don't like it, and working a job you don't like isn't gonna take you anywhere. Maybe back in the day this progression was a thing, but as a professional in the QA area and manager for several years now there are also a lot better QA jobs outside of the gaming industry, and opportunities are limited there.
If you want to get into game dev it's simple, just make games. It's easier than ever to make them, and also publish them in some way, whether publishing projects as open source code for recruiters or hiring managers to see or as an indie dev for demo/making small income.
Edit: I promise you I made this comment before I got to what Tim said at the end. :)
@@Carlos_S_ Agreed! I'm a QA Engineer myself, I just don't work in the vg industry (yet).
QA can be great on its own, but I wouldn't recommend going into it specifically to get into dev work. You can learn a lot doing it and it won't hurt to have on your resume, but I've worked in QA for almost three years now and very rarely I've seen any opportunities to get into dev. Not that it doesn't happen, but it's becoming less of a thing now, and most opportunities for advancement are just higher in the QA department. What Tim said is probably best, make a game or look for people making them and try to get into an indie team if you want to focus on your lane specifically. The majority of job listings in game dev will want you to have at least one shipped game under your belt from the get go anyway.
hi tim, thanks for the advice, it is very helpful especially if it comes from you. I have always liked video games and today at the age of 23 I decided to start programming, I am still learning the basics and this gives me the necessary motivation to continue, I know I can do great things, and your videos inspire me a lot.
PD: You have made several of my favorite games so you have no idea how excited I am to hear you in these videos.
I’m 24 and just started learning 3D for games, maybe we should team up
Ive been catching up on your youtube channel as ive recently found it! Big fan of interplay and obsidian and a lot of rhe ganes youve been involved with.
I think your story emphasises that if you have enough passion for something, you have a high probability of succeeding.
Im not a game dev, but i do use coding for my day job. I definitely had similarities to yourselves with getting involved in tech from as early as i can remember
I would love to make a game. your channel is fantastic!
Love your videos, please keep it up 🙏
Love your story!
This was very important to hear thank you
This is how I did it. I got a job at a small game company from a handful of things I made in GameMaker and Unity, I moved onto non-game tech roles but thats how I got started.
I love this, simple not easy.
Very good advice, not limited to the game industry at all.
Well this gives me assurance that Im on the right track. I graduated from college last December but havent had luck finding a job so I put most of my energy into learning to make games in unreal. And I even went the extra step to code as much as I could in C++ so I have something to show incase I couldnt get a games industry job
that frame of your childhood mementos is extremely special and I hope its preserved in a museum some day
When I was a teen, I've never gotten into gamedev since they thought I wasn't qualified. Now many years later being a CTO of a huge hi-tech enterprise I'm clearly overqualified. There's no justice in this world.
Hey Tim, I'm at my mid 30's and end up in Mexico's film industry to be specific in post production (film editing, VFX, and VFX supervising).
However I never got over the fact I want to make a game, so I being just writing desing for an tabletop RPG and making maps of quake (haven't finished any of those though)... What I'm going is... Is it worth still trying to pursue a career out of it?
It’s never too late. I know many people who started in the business in their 30s.
I hadn't considered the idea of buying a premade game to showcase my skills... I could implement writing and art into such a premade, and expand it just as you suggest. Maybe that is the stepping stone I need to get going. I cannot appreciate your videos enough. Now I have a lot of work to do and a clearer vision.
I'm so glad that the best way to get into the game industry is to just make games because I've been doing that for years.
When you said your advice was going to have some tough love attached to it, I steeled myself; however, your advice ultimately made me chuckle because I’ve had that exact thought.
I’m not a coder, and I’m not a good artist. But I can write pretty damn well. What games require primarily writing? Text adventures. I got explicitly into making/writing text adventure games because of my own limitations. Even though I’m still learning the basics of game design, I have made more progress than I ever expected to make, even as a hobbyist, because I found a game type and related engine that allowed me to play to my strength.
Given how open and accessible game development has become, I think your advice rings more true now more than ever.
Fitting avatar for great writing. TLJ and Dreamfall are two of the games that affected me most through their writing.
All the best to you.
Thank you for this.
Now I will look up those games where I can draw art and put it inside.
That sounds ime a lot of fun.
Thanks Tim.
What impressed me the most was that you're from Virginia, ha ha ha. It's always nice to see that legends have sprung from my neck of the woods!
Thank you very much!
I am a 2D/3D artist. I was thinking of making my own game. A lot of job applications actually ask the questions ‘how many (shipped) games have you worked on’. So, with making your own you can say 1 with a great story!
This applies to literally everything. Nothing is stopping you from just doing a project
I watched a video of a younger ex indie dev who has advice is if you know what youre good at a short demo of it preferably also a short video and a blog shwogng your work will work. And his advice did land jobs to some people already. You dont have to make a whole game because thst takes long.
Good tip about showing your strenght by modding someone elses project, Tim.
It's interesting cuz as a film major, the #1 advice is always "make films", and to get in the games industry your advice is "make games".
I am fully in on this mindset of making final products, however, people around me seem to doubt this strategy (lol), as I continue to work a dead end job and grind out 'personal projects'
I like this advice because I am making a game. Glad I'm going in the right direction.
Legend!!!thanks
I've just been making my own tabletop game and hoping it will be interesting and successful enough to adapt
As a game dev trying to get their foot in the door, this video definitely helped. Decided to learn a new game engine recently because I have a limited amount of coding knowledge and thought it would be a great way to improve. I've also been using Twine to hone my writing skills which is easier than, say, booting up Unreal or Unity. I've done QA testing before but this is what I needed to hear, thank you for this Tim.
He's not wrong, but if you make your own game, you probably should greenlight it yourself, rather than look for a job.
@@cadcad-jm3pf I've been spinning both plates at once. I'd love to focus on getting hired by a company but hardly anyone in my area is looking for somebody with my experience, because I don't have that much. I get what you're saying though.
I'm so glad to hear that you don't care about ideas, because I have none of those. But you say I have no excuses? Way ahead of you there, buddy!
When you said I would be upset about your advice, I was prepared for the worst
Instead I'm happy my own research paid off and I've already been doing that
Can you make a video elaborating what do you consider a "good code" from game programmer point of view?
Hi Tim!!! Welcome! 😄
6:40 I've thought a lot about this since the first time I started game development, and I can't believe I'm right. I have no degree so this is the only thing that I hold onto!
it sounds like you had a natural understanding of the coding complex that allowed you to get into the industry above all else, although I get what your saying, actually its kind of funny I used to modify Valve based assets in their coding and basically self patch and fix and fiddle with the AI, mostly minor simple things with the console commands, but the main thing was the programing and the variables were not encoded
so you could just mod them as you see fit which alot did
I actually liked your answer. Making a game sounds cool af
what great video
THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
My true suspicions confirmed - you have to just do it yourself and keep promoting it - whether you promote it in your resume or on social media.
Hey Tim, i want to say that I`m a huge Fan of Fallout 1 & 2 are my favorite Video games of all time and a big Thank you for craeting this World for us. I`m currently working on a Story for a Fallout RPG "The return of the Master". It take placed be between Fallout 1 and 2, and 100 Years after the Bombs (2177). A piece of the Master survied, and the enclave found this piece and starts experiments (a little bit like the Movie Akira), Vault 14 opens, people starts to disapearing again etc. . I made a map with all the old locations from Fallout 1 with Vegas and a part of Arizona. Do you got any suggestions for me? Because i will be the GM.
I'm nearing 40 years old and only now realizing that'd I'd love to do artwork and design for games. Fearing its far too late
Yes! I knew it! Just so happens I've started making my own. All I want is to be a UI designer lol.
The more I've heard about how many people in the game industry are treated, particularly among AAA companies, the less interested I've been in being part of it.
It doesn't help there are so few games these days that I would even have any interest in working on, outside of getting a paycheck.
I get what you are saying. But pick any industry and I will show you people being treated badly in it. Plus, you don't need to go AAA. Indie gaming is a vibrant place!
@@CainOnGames That's true! That's the only part of the game industry that sounds interesting to me.
From all the stories I've heard, working for EA or Activison Blizzard sounds like a dystopian nightmare, but if you could find a niche making small games with a small team of people genuinely working on the kind of games they're passionate about? I would be totally on board for that.
By the time you learn how to build games, the AAA landscape might change significantly, for better or worse.
The few people I knew who got into the gaming industry got burned out of it by about eight years of near endless crunch. They all proceeded to get into developing software for oil and gas companies, making much more money and a lot more free time.
The gaming industry isn't for everyone. Even the people who think it is for them might quickly learn how rough it can be.
@@Mirokuofnite Reading about the game industry introduced me to a Kotaku article and the Bioware concept of a 'stress casualty', or someone who has a mental breakdown from the stress of overwork and have a doctor-mandated period of weeks or months in which they're sent home.
Supposedly they had a lot of these while developing Mass Effect: Andromeda and Anthem. Both games, incidentally, that most people seem to regard as somewhere between mediocre and terrible.
So the developers drove themselves so hard they had mental breakdowns over games that, once released, failed and were mostly ridiculed.
Yeah, hard pass on that.
I do think it is the best advice one can get, but it does not seem to be enough nowadays, even when asking for half the wage I could get by programming a soulless banking system. Personally I've recently gave it a good final try, but eventually started coming to terms with giving up on it. Blessed are those skilled at networking.
Hi Tim, could you do a video on being proactive? Thanks.
If making a game sounds too challenging, start from modding. Join a modding team, they are usually made up from amateurs, and they will happily take in anyone who is ready to put some hours in, learn from others. Make levels for games that come with an editor and send them to friends to gather feedback. I've done some modding back in high school and uni, and I now work in an unrelated field, but I'm still getting occasional freelance jobs as a level designer because of that modding experience 10-15 years ago. It's like having a paid hobby!
Considering your explanation I decide to work as a farmer now :D!
So if I were to go and make a game in another game like Roblox or Minecraft, would that be the same as making a game? I'm not very good at coding, but I can understand things like block coding very easy. Also, thank you for sharing your knowledge in the industry!
I think it helps to understand why having a sample is crucial.
Game development is essentially an eternal "get sh*t done yesterday" industry and by extension it does not like "unproven" people, companies won't look at people based on their ideas or unrealized potential since it has no inherent value in term of getting the current job done. And even worse, being unproven means high risk of having to extensively train the newcomer for a lengthy period for them to be of any use, which does not exclude the risk that they might've romanticized the industry in their mind and after few months they'll realize it's not for them and just quit.
This is why proving yourself is greatest service you can do to yourself.
Based on personal experience i would recommend couple of things:
1)Identify what is your key area of interest/skill and specialize in that. It usually is the case with own projects, be it games or mods that you have to do everything by yourself. However the important thing is that company potentially hiring you wants a very specific person. I think there's a fairly specific but common kind of people in the industry interviews who are ready to agree to anything, just to work in the industry and it's kind of a suicidal approach in more ways than one. Generally a person that knows "a fair bit of everything" is crucial to a project but it's not a person the company will be hiring off the street with no experience, since this kind of role usually will belong to key seniority/leadership positions that also come in pair with communication skills necessary to coordinate each team and understand what they're doing and this won't be you, not for a long time.
2)Start as early as you can, generally speaking in most countries being a student does help a lot since you're a lot cheaper business-wise. Over the time a lot of people have used (and still preach) using QA as a wedge into the industry - this doesn't always work but circumstances vary greatly based on your "local" industry landscape. It also depends on how the company perceives QA, whether it's essentially paid players who are just meant to note down basic reproduction steps or actual QA made of people who understand both the project and the engine and can actually figure out probable causes and possible implications of the issue to prioritize them (besides basic "it crashes so it's bad").
On the other hand - if your perception of QA is strictly "i get to play games and i'll be getting money for it", it's also a bad answer and even if company would hire you out of desperation or stupidity after such answer - you'll start hating the game with distilled passion by the end of the project. You aren't strictly "playing" the game, you will be doing lots of repetitive tasks to pinpoint specific issue, writing it down and retesting it several times then also going back to previous issue to see whether current issue being fixed didn't bring back any previously solved issues and so on and so forth - repeat until release (well, usually even after that).
Another popular angle of approach nowadays is mobile industry with Unity, mostly because mobile games have low entry barrier and bring in incredible amounts of money so by extension there's a lot of small time (or even outright shoddy) studios which will hire literally anyone to just work as a craftsman to help with shoveling out next generic mobile game. This obviously means working likely below your ambitions and possibly even in less than ideal (or legal) environment but in terms of proving yourself - commercial experience is still experience.
3)If you are still a bit too young, you can still get going - tinker with the engines, learn your desired field and disassemble existing games to pieces to learn how they're made.
Generally speaking, if you identify a company you'd like to work for, in this day and age they're likely using a popular commercial engine which you can learn as well giving you a head start.
From personal experience i would say that this is not a guarantee of anything but as a general consensus i would say it surely does help so there's no reason to not do that if you have the time.
i've got a pretty huge asset and code library i've curated over the years and a github i've kept updated for atleast the last 3... I love plumbing as a career tbh
I worked as an HR, I lived in a country where Gaming industry is virtually nonexistent. I'd love to try working in gaming industry but, I don't know where to start. (I was looking to become QA, because my background isn't programming/animator/IT).
I did make a game. It didn't help.
I still think the advice is good, the problem is how flooded the job market is. Practically Weimar levels of unemployment. HR is also a big roadblock, often time it's a person who has no idea how things work that filter out a resume and they'll trash one they don't "feel" about without a second thought or a shed of remorse.
You mentioned providing the source code, which is something I do. The thing is, I never get returns on the quality of my job. Could you elaborate upon what it is you are looking for in someone's code? What sets people apart?
I start school for game dev and design next month!
You can also get into the industry through getting into marketing. Especially, social media marketing
Hello Tim, I'm in need of advice. If you can help me that would be awesome.
First of I have basic Java coding knowledge, I struggle to find an engine which can work with...well Java.
Any game engines where Java can be used?
2nd is for a beginner/rookie/wannabe game dev, which type of game should be easiest to develop?
I am torn between Shooter, 2D sidescroller and visual novel.
Thanks in advance.
Late to the discussion, but wanted to add something for people who got stressed out at the advice:
"Make a game" doesn't mean make the next Fallout, Final Fantasy, Terraria, Minecraft, or Stardew Valley. That is, your game doesn't have to be some one-person passion project, it doesn't have to be a 40-hour epic that changes the world, and it doesn't have to sell gangbusters. It doesn't even have to be original - replicating the mechanics of something like Zelda or Pokemon from scratch is the perfect project for a portfolio piece. (As long as you're not including sprites and such from the actual games, obviously.)
In this context, the advice "make a game" basically means "have a portfolio." It's not just about proving that you're not bluffing by being a good interviewee - it also puts you on even footing with your interviewer. It lets you come equipped with confidence because you have something you'll understand intimately. Instead of discussing hypotheticals, you're able to discuss something you've been poring over for who knows how long. You can discuss how you tracked down a specific bug that took a while to fix - instead of trying to come up with a work-friendly story of a time you "persevered in the face of adversity". That sort of thing.
You also don't need to spend the next five to seven years building up a portfolio just to get an entry level position. Hell, Tim's example of hiring a programmer whose project wasn't finished because the source code was really well put-together is a great example. It's just about saying, "Hey, here's a small project, here's how often I was able to commit to working on it, here's the progress I made, here's how I'd do it differently, and here's the next steps."
Mind you, I work in IT - not development. But I mentioned that I was working on a small programming project during my interview and that instantly got everyone's attention. I've been on the hiring committee for other employees since then - it's a goddamn slog hiring for an entry level position. And it's no fault of the interviewee, either. It's just hard to judge how well a person will do when they don't have experience that they can't get outside of the entry-level job they're applying for. The interviews that went best were the ones where we ended up talking shop about work-adjacent roles, even when they weren't directly related but the experiences carried over. Dealing with users in IT versus dealing with customers in retail, for example.
Plus, game developers are nerdy folks. If you've got a small project you're passionate about, it's a chance to share the experience with someone who likely understands that passion. Even if it's not your dream project, it's the passion to get employed. We're all here because we love hearing Tim's stories - so just think of the interview as a chance to talk with someone who actually understands the goal of your project instead of trying to explain it to any non-techie folks around you. You're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you.
I'm a Tech recruiter looking to pivot my career into the gaming industry. I'd like to know more about demand and salaries, and where to get more information about it. On the other hand, do you think is worth it? Since there were a lot of massive layoffs lately
Funny enough I started writing to companies when I was 12.
Edit: I remember knocking on splash damages door and asking them how to get a job in the industry (many many years ago before the tech and free information that we have today was available) and they said "work on a mod".
Thank you i was hoping to become a programmer/ animator. 👍
I want to be a environmental artist or 3d modeling designer. What should I make to showcase my interests..
Hey tim,
Is it true that the orignal plot for fallout before being about post Apocalyptic was about wacky time travel Shenanigans?
Heres a summary someone told me "You buy a house. In the basement is a magic statue. Something happens with a girlfriend. So you use the statue to travel time. You get planet of the apes, then war of the world, then a nuclear apocylapse, DINOSAUR INVASION, then if that wasnt wild enough there was something about king kong with jimmy hoffa in his hand, time travel madness. Just madness. Then it ends with a twilight zone momment where you become the statue in your basement." Well i lied i added in jimmy hoffa, other then that its all what they told me
Love your Snoopy shirt man
Would you ever consider pursuing teaching? I'm currently enrolled in a game design program and, just from watching these among your other talks, or podcasts you've been on, A lecture from you would be a great excuse to obtain more substantial student debt lol
I taught at UCI twice, once in 1999 and again a couple years later. It was a project class, code ICS180g, which I co-taught with Dr. Dan Frost.
The best advice I've ever heard is, if you want to do something, pretend you already are it and you do it. Basically, Just do it and make it happen
1. Come from programming family[sister also into programming]
2. Have connections
3. Have skills
4. Hope your not life crash by illness/mental disorder
5. Congratulations
Bloodlines question: was the cab driver (Tim) Cain?
Now THAT is a good question.
@@CainOnGames while we are at it: please help bring bloodlines back from the dead (pun intended)
On the topic at hand, I reached a point where I find it really hard to be satisfied by games today. :(
Then, out of boredom, I started making my own game. Still very early, but has one core mechanic I always wanted and have never seen before. Let's see if I can pull it off :)
@@UlissesSampaio its getting a sequel but not from troika obviously. Paradox is making it
@@UlissesSampaio iirc it comes out at the end of this year around October
Does this also apply when you want to work into the Graphics Pipeline and maybe physics engine? I can imagine you can waste your time not getting into the depth of the engineering part of it. Also I can't imagine 3D game studios hiring someone who spent their time writing flappy birds clones to work on the next spiderman or starwars game.
So what about those of us that have made a game, have a portfolio showing several small games, some made solo but most made on a team and you're still getting nothing back? no interviews, no attention?
How does someone get a job in QA for video games? I work as a lead technical tester for testing our bespoke software on embedded hardware, I feel that my skills aren't being utilised as much, I wouldn't mind trying QA in the game industry to see how it compares. I can write in Python and Java, I did some C# in university (switched to a CCNA course after 1st year)
I agree. Realization skill is far more important than just great ideas, most of which will die along with us. Learned this a hard way from GameDev and QA/QC experience since the 2000s.
Making a game as an Indy solo act is all that is really required to be a professional game developer. A graphic artist could code something in Unity with a little bit of diligence and sell their product through Steam. Notch coded Minecraft in Java with simple 6 sided cubes and low-res texture maps for graphical fidelity. The barrier to entry is nowhere near what it was 20 years ago. If you want to be a game developer, you simply just have to do it.
Now for my question Mr. Cain, how do I get invited into a worthwhile writer's room?
I love you cain
Starting my GODOT journey soon