Edit: description seems to be updated. This is a conversation between knuckacker(the dev behind the creeper world series) and Karsten75(as far as I can tell someone prominent in the creeper world fandom). Could you give some info on who it is that you are discussing your game with? The video feels like it is missing some context jumping into the conversation, even though it does seem interesting.
@@turoni314 I think it's like Creeper World X (meaning "CW prototype" or "CW universe game but not CW 5 (yet)") with alternative spelling. It's probably only codename until some late development version.
Thanks for sharing. One thing I would suggest if you plan to do shorter missions, is that you create many more than you normally include with Creeperworld games. I play through your missions each release within a couple days, then I spend 99% of my time playing user created missions. I love the idea of a larger universe, with an economy, and resources, let alone the planets, very very cool.
Heck I'd even pay for DLC expansions. For this new game or the existing ones. Community creations are great, but a package of content that fits together and tells a story is always way more interesting to me.
Wait, for real? No wonder the guy can completely ignore any sort of common sense and act as a tyrannical maniac in the discord server. He's his damn dad. Y'know what that makes so much sense. I always found it odd how everyone on the moderation team were pretty down to earth and fine with people existing *except* for K75. Whom single-handedly, without anyone else agreeing with him, goes out of his way to bully people into silence and yeeting anyone who refuses to be bullied into silence. I got *permanently banned* for saying mild swears like 4 times as flavor text (aka not aimed at anybody in particular) to go along with my natural vocabulary by this guy. In a 13+ server. Does he think 13 year olds don't swear like sailors themsleves? Like he's so out of touch it's insane. Nobody else were having an issue with the way I spoke except for him.
I like the persistence concept. In CW3 I had always wanted there to be some metagame progression from clearing systems in the Prospector Zone and Tormented Space, such as the Artifacts of Odin being a currency for researching permanent passive upgrades, to help with exploring the harder Tormented Space, while clearing out worlds in Tormented Space weakens the Creeper in various ways.
I think it's great that you're sharing your design philosophies because everyone has a different approach to engineering a game together. These kinds of videos are also great for opening up a forum of discussion into the different challenges that come up in game design (the lack of persistence between missions in CW). I think another core issue that should be brought up, and this isn't specific to CW as it happens in many other games as well (but it is a common issue with the CW games), is tackling the issue of designing a game that doesn't fall into a meta too easily. In Creeper World, one of the safest ways to complete pretty much every mission - base game or custom-made (assuming they are beatable) - is to turtle up and eventually push your way to your objectives with a "creeping barrage" military tactic. Eventually, these strategies get boring because the player stops being challenged, they have effectively come up with a strategy that cannot be beaten without presenting unfairness to the player (for example: sending air barrages of creeper every 20 seconds before the player can even begin building up). I first heard about this dilemma in a video by Etra Games, "Why FNAF 1 and 6 are the scariest" and it was really intriguing and got me thinking about other games' meta strategies as well, and I think it would surprise a lot of people to see how simple devising a meta strategy is for most games.
something this game should have is musical stems which means the music changes based on what happens and it is not some randomly selected song that just plays the more creeper is destroyed and the more your own things are destroyed, the more an in game score increases and the more intense the music gets. like so Knucracker sees this
Well now I'm just imaging a Creeper world game where you fly the ships to the planets which starts the creeper up on them and then it just kind of never shuts down. So you could say play half of a map it to access a structure, then find out you need an upgrade or resource from another planet to finish the map, and so have to leave mid mission to start another one to get that upgrade or resource. Then you come back to find your base all destroyed because the game more or less kept running the map in the background and the defenses you left behind couldn't hold up without your mothership so the creep overwhelmed and destroyed them.
so, I've got a neat idea off the first bit of the video of like, a creeper world with fog of war view that expands with your base, you can't see where the creep emitters are, you can only see where it's flowing from and so have to work out where the emitters are in the dark. This later gives rise to levels in which there are emitters which may choose to pick up and move to more tactically preferable locations as you get near. The first time they reveal this would be when you build the destroyer next to one, and this initiates that behavior happening when the creep emitters feel "cornered" but the emitters have to be able to reach a location that is outside of X range from current position that is not currently under threat on arrival. So by leaving turrets behind, you'll keep the creep from running away, thus also giving rise to another potential technology, "decoys," turrets that are extremely weak, but also very cheap, the intent of these decoys being just to prevent emitters from jumping in behind your lines. Decoys also attract the attention of creep spitters, being likely targets for them to fire creep at in order to make room to land later
Love the campaign and persistance idea, always wanted something more open world. Wonder how open it will be, if you can choose order of missions, If the mission you tried is too hard, gain some advantage on easier mission to take harder mission later.
It would be cool if custom missions could load older creeper world games as a type of mission if you have them installed. It would be awesome to have a above ground part 1 where you play creeperworld 4 then a part 2 of IXE gameplay
Excellent! Creeper World IXE! This looks quite exciting. Also much more ambitious than I had anticipated. It seems you have found more ways to get performance from Unity as well. I love the Creeper World series along with Particle Fleet and I am a programmer who loves pixel art. There are so many things that appeal to me about this. And I just keep hearing more and more good ideas. Thanks for sharing!
7:40 I really like the idea of a much longer arc for a game. I think it adds depth. But I think that pairs well with shorted missions because otherwise it could become a bit too drawn out. Also I've often thought well of 'universe' games (open world/exploration) which have a pixel graphical style. I think it really works well with the concept of miniaturising a universe into something on a screen.
Its really interesting to see more of the thoughts behind as well as parts of your journey in exploring new tech. If the community and custom maps of your previous titles come back for this one (and I bet they will) we will have all kinds of cool scenarios and worlds to explore. Already can't wait to play this game, but by all means, take all the time you need
when i finally get around to doing some worldbuilding it would be neat to make a creeper world ixe campaign that incorporates storytelling into it i think
The Idea of the persistent and connected galaxy is very interesting. That's a great concept for a new game for you to add more to the CW games. Something recent that it reminds me of is in Mindustry, you have these levels on different worlds you can beat, but how you ended them sets you up for how your resources come flowing in later, also you can go back to old levels and optimize your resources and even send them to help you start out on new levels.
0:07 Between when the space craft disintegrates and reintegrates, the pixels kept the colors of the original "structure" as they mishmashed and moved to their new location in the last video you released, showcasing the idea for this new Creeper World game. That was one of the things I absolutely LOVED. Please please please keep it like that instead of this cloudy white air thing. 😭 It was just so satisfying how it was!
It's not Unity ECS... that has been too much of a moving target to date. I do use the jobs system extensively, with il2cpp burst compilation. And I have my own 'hybrid' system that uses gameobjects in some instances and ECS like concepts in the areas that matter most.
Enjoyed those games from you. I always have the idea of a minecraft style upgrade to cw2 in 3d space, will that become a possibility? Will you use the vulkan api for better performance?
I love your development vlogs :D
Edit: description seems to be updated. This is a conversation between knuckacker(the dev behind the creeper world series) and Karsten75(as far as I can tell someone prominent in the creeper world fandom).
Could you give some info on who it is that you are discussing your game with?
The video feels like it is missing some context jumping into the conversation, even though it does seem interesting.
IXE at the moment also reads to me as 9E. Which I'm not sure if it's intended.
That’s Karsten? The guy who taught me how to code? He’s like 4 times my age lmao
His father.
Karstan is his Main playtester and community outreach authority
@@turoni314 I think it's like Creeper World X (meaning "CW prototype" or "CW universe game but not CW 5 (yet)") with alternative spelling. It's probably only codename until some late development version.
I really hope that you put more of these types of conversations for us to learn from you. You're awesome knu!
I love your work! I used to play the original Creeper World on Kongregate years ago.
That's how I found it, too!
Thanks for sharing. One thing I would suggest if you plan to do shorter missions, is that you create many more than you normally include with Creeperworld games. I play through your missions each release within a couple days, then I spend 99% of my time playing user created missions. I love the idea of a larger universe, with an economy, and resources, let alone the planets, very very cool.
Heck I'd even pay for DLC expansions. For this new game or the existing ones. Community creations are great, but a package of content that fits together and tells a story is always way more interesting to me.
Kudos to your dad for humoring you during this little project and for memorizing every minute detail.
Wait, for real? No wonder the guy can completely ignore any sort of common sense and act as a tyrannical maniac in the discord server. He's his damn dad. Y'know what that makes so much sense. I always found it odd how everyone on the moderation team were pretty down to earth and fine with people existing *except* for K75. Whom single-handedly, without anyone else agreeing with him, goes out of his way to bully people into silence and yeeting anyone who refuses to be bullied into silence.
I got *permanently banned* for saying mild swears like 4 times as flavor text (aka not aimed at anybody in particular) to go along with my natural vocabulary by this guy. In a 13+ server. Does he think 13 year olds don't swear like sailors themsleves? Like he's so out of touch it's insane. Nobody else were having an issue with the way I spoke except for him.
I just got a new dad goal
I like the persistence concept. In CW3 I had always wanted there to be some metagame progression from clearing systems in the Prospector Zone and Tormented Space, such as the Artifacts of Odin being a currency for researching permanent passive upgrades, to help with exploring the harder Tormented Space, while clearing out worlds in Tormented Space weakens the Creeper in various ways.
Weren't the Artifacts of Odin a currency for researching and/or building the ultimate items, like Big Bertha? Or maybe for amplifying them?
@Josh Martin iirc they were just consumable orbital support if you chose to use them in the map they were found.
@@telapoopy Ah, yes, that sounds more familiar.
I think it's great that you're sharing your design philosophies because everyone has a different approach to engineering a game together.
These kinds of videos are also great for opening up a forum of discussion into the different challenges that come up in game design (the lack of persistence between missions in CW).
I think another core issue that should be brought up, and this isn't specific to CW as it happens in many other games as well (but it is a common issue with the CW games), is tackling the issue of designing a game that doesn't fall into a meta too easily. In Creeper World, one of the safest ways to complete pretty much every mission - base game or custom-made (assuming they are beatable) - is to turtle up and eventually push your way to your objectives with a "creeping barrage" military tactic. Eventually, these strategies get boring because the player stops being challenged, they have effectively come up with a strategy that cannot be beaten without presenting unfairness to the player (for example: sending air barrages of creeper every 20 seconds before the player can even begin building up). I first heard about this dilemma in a video by Etra Games, "Why FNAF 1 and 6 are the scariest" and it was really intriguing and got me thinking about other games' meta strategies as well, and I think it would surprise a lot of people to see how simple devising a meta strategy is for most games.
something this game should have is musical stems which means the music changes based on what happens and it is not some randomly selected song that just plays
the more creeper is destroyed and the more your own things are destroyed, the more an in game score increases and the more intense the music gets.
like so Knucracker sees this
Dynamic soundtracks with WWise 🤞
Well now I'm just imaging a Creeper world game where you fly the ships to the planets which starts the creeper up on them and then it just kind of never shuts down. So you could say play half of a map it to access a structure, then find out you need an upgrade or resource from another planet to finish the map, and so have to leave mid mission to start another one to get that upgrade or resource. Then you come back to find your base all destroyed because the game more or less kept running the map in the background and the defenses you left behind couldn't hold up without your mothership so the creep overwhelmed and destroyed them.
Can't wait! I've been a fan of your games since CW1!
so, I've got a neat idea off the first bit of the video of like, a creeper world with fog of war view that expands with your base, you can't see where the creep emitters are, you can only see where it's flowing from and so have to work out where the emitters are in the dark.
This later gives rise to levels in which there are emitters which may choose to pick up and move to more tactically preferable locations as you get near.
The first time they reveal this would be when you build the destroyer next to one, and this initiates that behavior happening when the creep emitters feel "cornered" but the emitters have to be able to reach a location that is outside of X range from current position that is not currently under threat on arrival. So by leaving turrets behind, you'll keep the creep from running away, thus also giving rise to another potential technology, "decoys," turrets that are extremely weak, but also very cheap, the intent of these decoys being just to prevent emitters from jumping in behind your lines.
Decoys also attract the attention of creep spitters, being likely targets for them to fire creep at in order to make room to land later
Love the campaign and persistance idea, always wanted something more open world. Wonder how open it will be, if you can choose order of missions, If the mission you tried is too hard, gain some advantage on easier mission to take harder mission later.
As a game developer I'm always fascinated watching your videos!
It would be cool if custom missions could load older creeper world games as a type of mission if you have them installed.
It would be awesome to have a above ground part 1 where you play creeperworld 4 then a part 2 of IXE gameplay
Excellent! Creeper World IXE! This looks quite exciting. Also much more ambitious than I had anticipated. It seems you have found more ways to get performance from Unity as well.
I love the Creeper World series along with Particle Fleet and I am a programmer who loves pixel art. There are so many things that appeal to me about this. And I just keep hearing more and more good ideas. Thanks for sharing!
7:40 I really like the idea of a much longer arc for a game. I think it adds depth. But I think that pairs well with shorted missions because otherwise it could become a bit too drawn out.
Also I've often thought well of 'universe' games (open world/exploration) which have a pixel graphical style. I think it really works well with the concept of miniaturising a universe into something on a screen.
Thanks so much for sharing! I'm Hyped. I'm excited to see more videos like this. I love your videos on game development.
Thanks! I will be doing at least two more videos like this to show the two other tech predecessors to IXE.
Me acuerdo que de chico me pasaba horas jugando a tus juegos! Me parecen geniales y me alegra poder ver el avance de los mismos desde hace varios años
Its really interesting to see more of the thoughts behind as well as parts of your journey in exploring new tech.
If the community and custom maps of your previous titles come back for this one (and I bet they will) we will have all kinds of cool scenarios and worlds to explore.
Already can't wait to play this game, but by all means, take all the time you need
Your having the time of your life right now Discovery great things. Glad to see you never did sour , Keep it going my man Glad for you.
as a fan of creeper world and 4x games, I'm so hyped for this.
when i finally get around to doing some worldbuilding it would be neat to make a creeper world ixe campaign that incorporates storytelling into it i think
The Idea of the persistent and connected galaxy is very interesting. That's a great concept for a new game for you to add more to the CW games. Something recent that it reminds me of is in Mindustry, you have these levels on different worlds you can beat, but how you ended them sets you up for how your resources come flowing in later, also you can go back to old levels and optimize your resources and even send them to help you start out on new levels.
So cool! Can't wait.
This is looking very interesting, been a very long time Creeper World fan so I'm definitely excited for more!
0:07
Between when the space craft disintegrates and reintegrates, the pixels kept the colors of the original "structure" as they mishmashed and moved to their new location in the last video you released, showcasing the idea for this new Creeper World game. That was one of the things I absolutely LOVED.
Please please please keep it like that instead of this cloudy white air thing. 😭 It was just so satisfying how it was!
It's the same as in the old video. Pay close attention to the weapon pixels.
Thank you for all the hours
Well, let's give this a little more love, and traction!
Incredibly excited for this!
Kind of like a hybrid of creeper world 2 and particle fleet, then cranked up to 11
Are you using ECS in these examples, or rolling your own simulation?
Would be interested to know as well!
It's not Unity ECS... that has been too much of a moving target to date. I do use the jobs system extensively, with il2cpp burst compilation. And I have my own 'hybrid' system that uses gameobjects in some instances and ECS like concepts in the areas that matter most.
@@knucracker I appreciate your response. Thank you! Agreed, ECS is took wonky for me. I am thinking about giving godot a look again when 4.0 releases.
Virgil, you rock. Thank you.
I have the opposite problem here. I have too many ideas and it's hard to gauge their quality.
How do I know what to axe?
Pick one and work on it. It will soon let you know if it is real, or an illusion. That's what I do.
A game within a game is a pretty cool idea
I love the Creeper World series!! 💓💓
Great video, thanks 👍
Would you consider boxing up elements of your past games as Unity modules for game makers to use? I'd pay for that!
you had a 1k level in CW1
You should make this multi-planet view include planet-to planet threats from the creeper attempting to spread, per your lore you built.
Enjoyed those games from you. I always have the idea of a minecraft style upgrade to cw2 in 3d space, will that become a possibility? Will you use the vulkan api for better performance?
insy vulkn api only for rendering?
@@thehurricanegod3244 Vulkan api is for better application performance for both games and regular software too.
5 or 10 minute missions? 👀 sign me up!
So your going with the falling sand/noita thing of simulating every pixel
Is this from a live stream?
didnt creeper world 4 come out like, 4 seconds ago?
Either make the terrain fully pixelated or the opposite, this is terrible, it is in-between, it looks like it is a low resolution.
shouldn't it be creeper world V rather than creeper world X
you begin by not having depression
Who’s the old guy?
Karsten sounds south african.
👊 *PromoSM*