The OFFICIAL Season 10 Overwatch 2 Hero Tier List
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- čas přidán 20. 04. 2024
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#Flats #overwatch2 #overwatch - Hry
Venture's launch has been funny because in back to back games ill see "venture is busted" and "venture is useless"
I think one of the reasons is because Venture is one of the most map dependent heroes imo, for me they feel awful to play so much on maps that favor poke
That’s how you know the character is fun
Yeah it's the doomfist of the DPS role
just like doom when he dropped
@@mckookie2967 otherwise known as normal doomfist... rip dps doom
the whole bit about how tank feels like torture to play but is also very strong was really depressing to listen to because of how accurate it felt, you would think that people saying you either never die or explode just for looking at the enemy the wrong way would be contradictory and can't make any sense but it genuinely is how it feels to play tank. you're the most important player on the team but also you're like the little brother that gets told to go inside the abandoned house first to make sure its safe for everyone else to go in only to get killed by pennywise
Lol
true lmao
You're either the MC or the black guy in a B list horror movie. Tank is Hell.
That's why they should stop buffing and instead mega nerf tanks. Counter swapping and focusing the weakest player will have less value than focusing on countering the other roles or playing to the map's strength
@@gl8862 That is the worst take Ive heard. If anything we either shouldve haf 6v6 be brought back or global nerfs to everyone instead of what blizzard did and "nerf" everyone by buffing everyones hp. Also tank would still be giga focused since they are so big?
0:56 Ball
2:24 Doom
4:00 Dva
4:40 Hog
6:56 Orisa
9:15 JunkerQueen
10:32 Mauga
12:00 Ram
13:21 Rein
14:32 Winton
16:40 Sig
18:48 Zarya
20:10 TANK SHUFFLE but not really
21:48 Ashe
22:22 Bastion
23:10 Cassidy
25:32 Echo
26:05 Genji
27:00 Hanzo
28:58 Rat
30:28 Mei
31:36 Pharah
33:17 Reaper
33:45 Soujourn
34:59 Soldier
36:30 Sombra
36:55 Tracer
38:00 Symm
40:05 Torb
40:32 Venture
41:42 Widow
42:25 Kiri
44:58 Lucio
46:49 Ana
49:45 Bap
51:35 Mommy
53:00 Illari
54:31 Lifeweaver
56:18 Mercy
59:28 Moira
59:52 Zan
1:01:10 Did i cook?
The real mvp
brother youre wild with it
I respect your opinions on Brigette
@@randompencil2761so do I
No
48:36 Kiri has better healing, better ability, fresh ingredients, better pizza, Papa Johns.
The problem with Reaper is that he has 2 niches: tank buster and flanking. Tanks got buffed in OW2 to compensate for running solo, but Reaper did not change. I can EASILY 2 tap a Reaper on even Hog now, 1v1. As far as flanking, supports have become so powerful that they can either 1.) escape 2.) protect one another until help arrives/Reaper leaves or 3.) Kill Reaper. The change to 5v5 has impacted him even more than it has tanks.
Hes redeemed by being a solid gatekeep to Mauga who's strong rn but yeah needs help
I try to make him have value, but it feels so very minimal. There are just so many tools to negate him and his self-heal feels almost non-existent most of the time. And dont get me started on his ult. It's so incredibly weak now with the global health increase. My boy needs help.
And very map dependent, good luck in far range map
Don't forget just straight up immunity and run
my dyslexic ass read it as 2 inches and i was about to defend reaper’s mini lad
i think people just play reaper wrong, you have to play like a widowmaker and snipe with him its op trust
I just play him like a koala and tp high ground to drop on people
Reaper weapons are double-barrel shotguns........and you......snipe with them?
This Ana, shot in the back, agrees with you lol
@@blacktrack1014you don’t, that’s how I became a top 500,000 reaper
@blacktrack1014 they're semi automatic shotguns
"This season is kind of a nothing burger, not a lot going on"
*Proceeds to make his longest tier list video yet*
The point is more that the tier list is almost identical to the last one
Well you should look into his other video, talking about his thoughts on this season. He thinks it's one of the worst seasons so far.
Following it up with immediately making a wild card teir and saying numerous times that it's "too early to tell" when talking about the first character on the list.
@@sillynapalmidk then don’t make content on a game then complain about it like?
@@quocnguyenbao1601 that’s such an empty statement. Sounds like you’re suggesting only make content so long as you like and have no criticism for it?
Okay, but what if I've been a reaper one trick for years
then keep on reaping
You reap what you sow
flats is delusional dont take him seriously. reaper is really good right now from a top100 dps player.
@@M1R1ND4 You know you can offer your opinion without putting others down...
@M1R1ND4 reaper is sorta like rein (ik the "if you're good at a hero they transcend their ranking opinion, that's not what I'm saying here) the way you position and actually PLAY him makes a difference. You can't really walk up and spam the tank as easy, but he's super good for flanks and causing problems. Especially if you get on a support and put two shots in them point blank it's over for them. He plays a little more sneaky before getting 1 or two picks, and has enough beefyness to fight a pretty long time after that before retreating. Just all around great for catching the enemy team off guard and forcing resources. He does need a new ability and quieter sfx tho.
Love how Orisa is literally the best tank every season and how Kiriko is always the best support every season. Blizzard really likes to show off their favourites, don't they?
Fr lmao, she’s been the best tank for more than half of the seasons for OW2 so far. At the same time she’s also the least fun tank to play against and also play as, it’s almost as if Blizzard are trying their hardest to kill their own game
Same with soj and tracer
atleast Lucio got to shine a bit but everyone else is burnt
Glad hogs been getting buffed lately it’s been making it somewhat manageable for me
I hate Orisa with a passion. She just makes the game unfun. She’s unbeatable with her stupid little bear hug stand ability, and her deflect. She’s essentially unshootable for like 8 seconds, and that is painful when she’s standing infront of her team.
Bro i stop play this game like 2 years ago and soj still S tier wtf
When he says “numbers characters” what he’s referring to is a term I got from League called “stat sticks”. Characters that usually have a one dimensional playstyle and rely on their huge stat numbers to get value.
Most people call them stat check characters. If you pass the check you aight if you don’t you’re getting folded.
it's so funny hearing everyone come to agreement on the fact that Mercy is awful yet in high masters i'm still seeing her almost every single game. and often on both teams.
Yeah, also on console where 90% of games are xim dps, until that issue is solved I really hope mercy doesn't get buffed because that makes the games go from really hard and probably a loss to a 99% loss. Half the leaderboard of support is still mercy players just because they wake up in the morning to pocket cheaters
It's because when you have actually good dps players, mercy provides insane value to those players. Otherwise, she's the worst support and if your dps aren't able to get early kills, literally any other support is better
mercy is like race to the bottom, it still gets value if you plan on getting picked early but we can do better
I agree with flats’ orisa take: they should’ve kept ow1 orisa and just nerfed fortify, so that if a brawl/rush comp gets past her shield, you can actually kill her.
It’s like samito said: it was never the shields, it was fortify.
I would’ve let Fortify keep its anti-bop but removed or heavily reduced its dmg mitigation. Another change could be to buff shield hth and increase the cooldown to promote her anchor status but allow brawl to counter it.
Fortify and broken support heroes. Every OP tank meta was enabled by broken supports
@@chiefinasmithOh yeah, OW1 Sigma and giga Hog were only strong because of supports
OW1 Orisa with a worse fortify would be a terrible character in OW2. She would get absolutely steamrolled and incredibly boring to play.
@@ricocarpenter2189 I said they were ENABLED by broken support abilities. Hog meta was never as oppressive or detrimental to the game as double shield or GOATS. Sigma was strong because of Bap and because OW1 balance team started making tanks that had no weaknesses. Unlike the OG tanks like Rein on Winston who had clear disadvantages against certain comps. Even giga Hog had a hard counter in Ana before they introduced broken immo abilities like cleanse
Rein higher than DF, Zarya. This man has gone insane.
I mean some cracked reins are really good and if they have a cas and sombra it's definitely not gonna be fun for the doom
@@sebastianrodriguez8992that's like putting doom in S tier because top50 tanks can solo as doom, like really?
@@omegastrike8812 well I think if the character can work that well at all he definitely can't be the worst
I do feel like doom shouldn't be so low
It's a character that's harder then the rest of of course the average person won't manage the same as someone dedicated to the character
@@sebastianrodriguez8992dooms only that good after 4k hours in him alone. Unique case not everybody is zbra
@@chronologikillgaming5887 not everyone needs that much time some people can get good at a character much faster than others
Not everyone's zbra obviously but you don't have to be zbra to be a good doom players he's not the only one in the entire ow community who's good at doom
How is Kiri’s hitbox still the size of a stick figure after being S tier for 10 seasons in a row?
because smol
What in the 'deviantart inflation fetish' are you talkin about?
because child
Fortify doing 4 things (45% dr, 50% reduced heat build-up, 100 overhealth, crit immunity) along with its CC immunity is definitely a big part of Orisa's oppressiveness, could also be looked at to have her Javelin abilities be shared charges like Zarya's Barriers. I think the first fix for Lifeweaver (with appropriate rebalancing) is remove the slow for holding a charged Blossom and making the charge passive, letting you immediately heal someone after swapping from Thorns but still having to wait for the next one, maybe even have the charge meter always displayed so you can get some damage in between heals.
I've been saying his heal charge should be passive since he came out. Such an obvious change to incentivize shooting. That + removing the switch time between thorns and flower, probably with some numbers nerfs to compensate. Switching between weapons is so clunky and cumbersome.
I have been playing OW2 since release and never knew fortify gave 45% DAMAGE REDUCTION?? I always recognized that orisa having fortify up was basically unkillable, but hearing the numbers is surreal
I think the optimal change would be letting him heal and deal damage at the same time, BUT reduce heals to 50. Gives him flexibility, and allows greater skill expression by making him play true back line to get value from both simultaneously
I like the idea that she has to choose whether she wants to throw her javelin or use it as melee/shield with shared cooldown. I also think fortify should remove the reduced heat build-up. The name already implies that it’s a defensive ability. Take away the element that she can keep doing dmg while being beefy during this instance. Would be nice to see how this impacts her.
Thank you for saying Mercy is bad right now. I've been seeing some people online say it's just a skill issue but I seriously think it's the hero underperforming in general compared to the rest of the support lineup.
It's because of the combination of two factors. Larger projectiles means it's harder to dodge. Dps passive making allies take less healing means mercys healing to self is also nerfed.
If mercy is meant to pocket team mates, then I feel like she needs a buff to at least her healing to compensate for the damage debuff that gets applied.
The issue with mercy is that… Well lets look at the supports. Bap, Kiri, Ana, and Moira have extremely high healing outputs so when the DPS passive was introduced, their healing wasnt as bad after. Lucio, Zen, and Brig all arent picked for heals, BUT they can heal and shoot or do something else at the same time. Mercy cannot shoot or damage boost while she is healing. That along with projectile size increase and she isnt that good unless you have a Godly Sojourn or Echo. I dont rly care about the state of her, but thats just my take on it
Its because mercy is still good in metal ranks. I'm in mid gold and when I five stack with my friends and they have a mercy all I hear is "we have to kill mercy before the tank", "I cant kill tank because mercy is pocketing her" or "kill mercy otherwise she will res". And most of the time the mercy is barely using blue beam.
The other day I had to go sombra to hack mercy out of res because otherwise she will jump in on point in the middle of our team and res the tank because everyone ignores her until they hear the res sound and by that point its too late to stop the res. They never think to cancel her res and instead try to kill her to stop the res, which nearly never works.
If a mercy player says anything about a skill issue, their opinion is automatically invalidated
I feel like the rein shatter buff makinf him B is huge cope, the best rein has the same impact as a ok doom
Yeah I definitely feel like flats was just straight up coping with that one
@@colbyking5423especially with the Genji Bastion being worse on the tier list then rein
Yep hes wrong I think it’s idiotic to think rein is better than doom and zarya 😂
Lmao "an ok doom" is dying every five seconds lil bro relax.
@@morocuda2090 Doomfist is so busted, everyone unable to play him is handicapped
Agree on the Reaper topic. Been maining him for a while, then tried Cass/Echo and immediately went up 2 ranks up to masters. But he’s one of the few fun ones, because when he works - he WORKS
FRR they defo need to buff him blossom FOR SURE- like… you kill the tank then blossom but tanks are just so hard to kill now bcoz of how good supps are and the health boosts. You gotta worry bout stunned, matrix, javelin, hook, boop, rocked… etc. (not including the supps or dps.) like they need to buff him. Esp cause flank, kill, wraith isnt necessarily the best now….
Hmm, this tierlists s tier looks VERY SIMILAR TO LAST SEASONS. and tracer still being s tier means her "nerfs" did literally fucking nothing
The hp buff is the reason why. She had great dmg before it but couldnt exploit it everytime because she was kinda fragile with those 150 hp. Now she can Even tank a headshot
they said the wanted her to be more skilled base so the nerfs prob didn’t effect a single thing on high level play
@@yes_aidann yeah metal ranks tracer feels a bit worse for sure.
In low ranks Tracer has gotten way more oppressive. I'm trying to train my sister how to play overwatch, and I myself am only in silver, and if there's a Tracer in any of our games we're guaranteed to have a bad time.
I still am trying to figure out why Flats dropped Sombra. She is ridiculous especially just charging EMP off the ult batteries like orisa and Hog. Also shutdowns basically all of Sigma so he gets fucked up
"You may aswell be writing that guys eulogy, 'cause that guys going to the graveyard, you ain't keepin' them alive"
- Flats 2024. Peak quality phrasing. You did indeed cook pretty hard with this one!
"Respect the Denture"
-Flats 2024
You could copy n paste the tank ranking for every future tier list and it’ll be accurate until we leave 5v5
Doom and hog are the only two I see changing dramatically, they're both very volatile characters that shift heavily depending on what characters are meta and certain mechanics (the DPS passive as an example of hog getting a lot worse)
Any tank meta is better than Mauga's meta, they need to redesign everything about this character
I thought playing Orisa was boring until they released him. I don't care how OP he is. I can't do it.
@@xDjembexif mauga isnt fun for you to play you’re just a bad mauga. Ofc playing against him isnt fun
@@Whowhatwherewhyhowwhen that's a terrible rationalization, dude. I think his kit is boring. That's it. Try not to be such a d*ckhead.
@@Whowhatwherewhyhowwhen no. It's because his kit is boring. You don't have to be a d*ck because someone disagrees with you, buddy.
@@Whowhatwherewhyhowwhen or, maybe, it's because his kit is boring. Not sure why you're so bothered by a difference of opinion.
The bad thing is its always the same 5 characters that are the best
I was playing Clash as Rein I have so much fun despite the counter swaps. I wasn’t holding back. I was solo shattering people with no regrets, I was little bit more aggressive then usual because I didn’t care, and I show them no mercy!
Live With Honor!
Die with Glory!
Honor and Glory Brother
I think an underrated nerf idea for Orisa is to nerf the javeline spin (not the ult). There is no reason she should be able to push you around like that for so long. Every type of boop and even hook is a CC rthat happens instantly so your arent out of the fight for too long, but when Orisa gets you in the javelin spin, you literally are just helpless.
No they should just turn on crits during fortify
I still think that makes fortify more of the issue. Give Winston that ability and he just blows up, the reason the javelin spin is good is because orisa can use fortify so she can shove 3 people at once without dying. Nerf fortify and her tankiness overall and that move won't be broken anymore
So what you're telling me, is that Sigma is the most balanced hero... I still don't wanna play him.
He's a good hero but I just always struggle on him for whatever reason even though other tanks like junker queen, zarya etc I do okay as.
@@ianchambers37omg same I used to main him for like a year in OW1 but since he’s changed and 5v5 I just can’t play him anymore idk why
@@standbywhy107what changed with sigma?
@@sadboat1657 the 6v6 to 5v5…He doesn’t suit 5v5 but cause he’s better than most they don’t notice
He's literally built for 5v5 it's just that he thrived more in 6v6@@standbywhy107
Glad someone's vocalizing how bad Reaper is. Almost like he should get a rework that was implied and promised ages ago...
Nah but bro they were hard at work giving us a ball "rework"
... You know? The rework that addressed like, none of his problems?
They'll probably just give reaper his old shitty passive and be like "look guys we fixed him :)".
@@darcidious99 First of all, yeah, while I do appreciate some of the quality-of-life changes and unique additions given in Wrecking Ball's reworks, I don't feel like it revolutionized him too much in terms of gameplay, let alone macro interactions. Second, oh God, don't even get me started on Reaper. At minimum I imagine them listening to the most common lazy "rework" that the community is most capable of coming up with which is "Just give him more damage or increased accuracy and he'll be fine". A less worse step above that is that what if they do minuscule number buffs with the only unique one being the Grenade Launcher secondary fire idea inspired by the OW1 game trailer. The least that I hope they do for Reaper is fix his outdated OW1 kit. That means making his teleport useful in combat rather than just "respawn transversal convenience" and making his Wraith perhaps a resource meter, therefore more opportunities to survive in fights when used properly, such as successfully anticipating and dodging deadly cooldowns. From there they need to stop treating him like the beginner's one-trick pony trump card of just "Shoot deh gun" by giving him more offensive and/or utility options whether it be a secondary fire or new ability
Orisa's core problem is that she basically has two defensive abilities that could easily be stand alone abilities and still be strong enough to keep her alive, especially considering spin makes getting to cover much easier, but lacks any good engagement tool beside trying to overpower her enemies.
I'd honestly take pull back over fortify, because fortify is a lame ability that only holds back her kit, and while pull is powerful and can be frustrating it's at least an interesting ability that makes things happen and can justify playing her in her weaker state while bot making her unkillable in ber strong state. Of course she'd need some number adjustments, but her rework is genuinely detrimental to Overwatch 2 because it's impossible to balance.
It's especially weird that she's like that because the only other tank with two defensive abilities and not real engagement tool for say is Sigma, a hero with the most versatile barrier postitioning in the game.
Winton
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I think it's because the dev team wanna balance off win rates and play rates but the problem is this will always inflate the least fun heros as theyll inherently get played less because theyre just unfun, like winston gets played more because we all just love playing him and we hate orisa so most only play her if they suck at tanking or shes good so it's like a paradox where because we love heros, we Increase their play rates which causes them to get nerfed.
Reminds me of a certain dps character then got buffed when he shouldn’t have been *cough cough* Bastion *cough cough*
@@aidenmeislitzer7774 well bastion was just them being stupid, idk what demon possessed them to buff bastion with 10 separate buffs inna single patch but that was the patch that ruined the game for most players and the game hasnt recovered yet, like ofc bastion isnt bothering plat and above but over 50% of the playerbase is gold and bastion has been terrorizing them like he did in ow1 which was the thing all my gold friends praised when ow2 dropped, was how bad bastion is and some were even thinking hes kinda fun with the bomb jump tech and now they all hate the game again 😂
@@aidenmeislitzer7774 they legitimately had a great opportunity to make bastion a great hero by removing the self dmg on his bomb, lowering his dmg and maybe shrinking his hitbox to make an actually engaging version of bastion with a tiny skill ceiling to make him usable in higher ranks and than they just buffed his def and dmg... because everything needs to just be numbers so the game is as brain rot as possible in gold 😂
The thing is that this would be a good way of balancing a game if they were consistent with it. In comp, the majority of the games you'll see the easier and more powerful heroes in play so the nerfs will affect super easy and strong heroes which is good. The only problems that arise from this are certain underplayed heroes that are very difficult (looking at you wrecking ball) would receive all the buffs and then one or two really good one tricks of those heroes would be MONSTERS. But on the whole the idea works, because people play the meta and thus the meta shifts every balance patch
@@elmacho1336 the issue isnt them being nerfed, they always get nerfed eventually, the issue is them staying nerfed, as easy as orisa is she isnt fun, like torb is fun, Moira is fun, mercy is fun, rein is fun and these are very simple heros but they're fun so even when they arent meta, people genuinely love their designs.
But mauga and orisa are not fun, ofc theres an audience for everything but I just dont think their audiences are very big at all, and almost all of their love comes from players winning matches as them, I mean unlike rein where he has his unique hammer, his satisfying pin and his bombastic personality, while orisa just has another gun, a spin attack and an ability to be more tanky with the personality of a rock, actually ventures pet rock has more personality so really what's there to like about orisa besides her stats? And that's the issue when you build something that terrible and dont even give them personality, the hero will always be flip flopping back and forth if you're balancing off stats since behind all those stats, theres nothing to like.
This patch did literally nothing to change anything. I would suggest nerfing Orisa (I am fine with half a season of Orisa meta but we don't need a whole season), buffing [insert any tank here, just something new], and buffing either brig or mercy to give lucio some competition, also probably nerfing Kiriko she can just do everything so make one of those things worse.
Nerf orisa
Buff Rein
And let people have fun for a season
Or, hear me out, we nerf Lucio instead of powercreeping support. Stop asking for support creep when it's literally his self sustain and the lockout from boop that's the problem.
Just nerf the support passive and remove his boop lockout buff and he will be fine. Stop babying support character when they actively hurt the game. (I am a support main, so don't call me a salty DPS main. Lol)
@@thiefpotato2759 But Lucio doesn’t hurt the game. I agree the lockout nerf would be good but I also don’t think Lucio is a problem. Kiri is significantly worse for the game than Lucio.
“The quality of the game matters based off of how good Rein and Winston are”
-BigCitrus
@sebastianrodriguez8992 Rein could literally one shot a squishy on each swing and still wouldn't be good because of Orisa's kit
I think just hearing Flats talk about the current state of tank where "every tank is 'good' but tank sucks to play" is the reason the game needs to be 6v6 again. I know that Flats doesn't take a side but the devs have literally found the bounds of tank for the 5v5 model and the way he talks about tank is just absurd and it made realized that tank is completely broken and that the only real way to fix this is either completely reworking every single tank from the ground up, completely ruining the identity of all the current tanks or reverting to 6v6 and having the main/off tank style of tanks again.
There is just no way for tanks to ever be good in this format. It works in other moba esque games because you build items that vary upon different matches. If the enemy team is running mobile characters, you build heavy CC and buff up your bulk. If the enemy team is squishy, you stack on damage and just keep them down.
That isn't a thing in overwatch, you either pick "the good" tank, or you lose. Therefore, every match is just rock paper scissors, and it will never change even IF all the tanks were somehow balanced. You'll always go into a hog to shutdown someone like a winston, always a winston into a zarya who needs high damage for charge, etc. (Btw i haven't played in a bit so I'm just guessing on who counters who, but you see the point). And the supps/dps counter you too, reaper and bastion will always shut a winston down assuming they have a braincell, and Ana exists to counter like every tank with sleep/anti. Therefore you now either have to switch, or you lose.
The way i see it there's only 2 options: either 6v6 comes back since theres only 2 real shield heroes in the game now and the shields honestly kinda just suck anyways, OR hero swapping is gotten rid of to prohibit rock paper scissors. Enemy has a pharah and your team didn't choose a hitscan? Oh well, deal with it.
@@darcidious99Locking hero swaps would absolutely make tank worse, along w the other roles to a lesser extent. The game would become "pick this character or lose." You couldn't risk making an unsafe pick, because if you cant win a bad matchup you're screwed, encouraging people to only play the pool of meta characters or else be forced to risk playing against one on an off-meta hero.
"Deal w it" doesnt really work in the case of Hog v Orisa, and if you couldn't swap the game would be significantly harder w no extra rewards, being forced to sweat for the win while the enemy tank can literally go afk if you don't.
Bro no one liked playing tanks either in 6v6 stop yapping 😭
@@darkcat6530I did 🙏
6v6 is not the answer
15:55
I've been saying this since S1 when they said they were going to release a hero every other season.
We were going to get to a point where there's TOO MANY HEROES to know what is even going on.
And here we are
See, i think this is the problem. From how they seem to make characters, they want to make them broken and tune them down or hp as the season goes on. Most people don’t want broken heroes as they suck to play against (me imcluded). They also kinda suck at getting me interested in new characters aside from mauga, ram, and jq (who aren’t even new technically) but that’s neither here nor there. The abilities they make are going to either overlap and look very similar to previous abilities, be super broken, or both. And unlike league or paladins, you don’t build items to help you reduce annoying things like cc, damage, increase you health, speed, defence etc etc… to help reduce the annoyance of annoying abilities (most of the time). We take these broken abilities and the fact that balance team seems to be actual toddlers, the abilities can’t ever get properly nerfed or buffed most of the time, and this is where I think where the problem will be more noticeable once we see more info regarding the next support and next tank (possibly, again this is just a theory). Idk if this makes sense to you, but it sounded a lot better in my head lmao
The fact that Cass is so high on every tier list of this and previous season makes me so damn happy. He is my fav character from day 1 of OW1 Beta, and the fact that he was so bad i was forced to play Soj and Soldier which i hate in terms of personality and aestetics (Keep the G.I BS for Tarkov, it's not for me) was really saddening. Now i can finally play hero i love.
There are 3 things in life that are certain: death, taxes, and Flats’ hatred of Orisa.
And love of Brigette 😂
@@ianchambers37 That depends on how broken she is. I remember he used to hate her before OW2 came out because during that time her and Zen were the support combo for like 3 years.
here before the “fell off” comments
It's not funny either
I was stating a fact
Thx
Ephlaght only got 4 likes in 8 minutes? Fell off smh
fell off
Does anyone have a link to the clip he’s talking about where emongg falls off kings row because of boop?
He's right about the format change thing with Kiri, in the 6v6 adjusted custom game, Kiri basically had to get buffed.
Imagine if there were two tanks to counter each other out, and not just one player who has to make a huge decision on what to play, and constantly swap depending on the enemy tank
Thanks!!! Yes I'm an otp hanzo (almost) and i always felt like hanzo was a great character to deal with hog, but with the dps passive now reducing heal etc it feels like hog does not exist anymore when i'm against him.
I'd also point out if you have A REALLY GOOD AIM Hanzo is currently so good at DESTROYING birds. The arrow hitbox being so big makes him great to deal with pharah , mercy and echo (or illari during ult) you need to know how to play hanzo tho and have a great aim for that since prediction and knowledge about each bird's movements are needed but it is very rewarding.
Hog is good hanzo not a problem against him
Flats spends an hour showing that the meta is the same as last season. Dude is goated
I think for Lifeweaver they need to make his petal ever so slightly larger and make it not get stuck on every little piece of geometry on the map.
They also need to increase his switch speed between attacking and healing, or at least the switch from attacking to healing but maybe keep the switch from healing to attacking the same.
They definitely need to do some sort of mini rework to Orisa too. Change fortify so that it doesn't do 45% dmg reduction, crit immunity, cc immunity, 100 over health, reduced overheat buildup. And instead make it do either crit or cc immunity but not both. Could also introduce something like it not decreasing overheat buildup but when overheated completely refreshes it when using fortify but that then sacrifices cc or crit immunity instead. (makes overheating more punishing).
They could also put javelin and spin into a similar thing with Zarya where she shares bubbles with herself and teammates.
Every time I play overwatch2 I get the blizzard error massage I’m not sure if it’s the same as the thing flats-says at 2:00 but if anyone knows how to fix it it is greatly appreciated
I love that in every flats tier list Winton and Dva always seem to be in the same tier as each other.
They used to dive the backline together! So I'm not surprised lol
They both basically do the same thing and fit in the same comps. So they end up being somewhat interchangeable, plus neither of them ever need to get changed all that much.
Damn perhaps if we went back to 6v6 it would be possible for Zen to not die instantly and still allow tanks to play the game
I miss that old orisa concept where her projectiles were big when fired, but got smaller as they traveled.
My idea to fix game:
gigabuff ramattra
give him dance emote
fixed!!!
Very real. Rammy boy deserves a little dance.
What would his dance be?
I never thought I'd see the day where rein is in b and reaper on D
8 min in and I literally just said today in my game that fighting Orisa just feels like playing double shield, where your just shooting but nothings happening...
Flats' breakdown for tanks feels like that old CZcams Poop, "Where's the caveman?"
The problem is allowing constant swapping , ranked would be extremely different If u can only swap after every check point and not after every death , counter watch is what makes playing any tank miserable , either people play with honor and use thier mains, but if they are desperate to win, especially in ranked , the obvious answer is to counter swap ,u should be locked into to a character until a check point , would make people actually have to come up with plays to get around disadvantages, and then decide if they continue playing that character after every checkpoint, after a check point , the next death or by walking to the spawn point , u can swap
I don't think that's a solution to the problem. At that point, you're just flipping coins that you will pick a tank that beats theirs. If anything, tank matchups shouldn't be so polarizing that counter swapping is incredibly impactful
@MegaScytheman u don't get it , that's why counter swapping is powerful , because u can do it constantly without any drawbacks ,this video literally shown u that they will sit in spawn swapping instead of playing the game
Or just bring 6v6 back since tanks are still clearly designed for 6v6
@@kingclampz6081 you guys gonna cry so hard and rq on the spot after 1 week with 2 tanks on the battlefield!
@@j.w.213 wrong ow1 was better that game was abandoned that’s the only flaw if you had a brain you would know the tanks are designed for 6v6 that was the whole point for example rein and zarya he protects her first than she protects him when he’s down it’s the perfect compliment same with dva and Winston she takes care of his weaknesses and vice versa with 5v5 they continue to buff tanks to make up for it but you have eyes right? You can see the state of the tanks because of this junker queen still designed as 6v6 same with the other tanks and are suffering because of it
I know this list is mostly for above metal ranks, but mercy still kinda pops off in metal ranks where people STILL have a hard time hitting her. I’m forever hard stuck in gold/plat no matter who I play but depending on comps I’ll still play mercy and go the whole game with 0-3 deaths max opposed to everyone else’s 8+
Just pocket the tank and hide behind cover. 😂 seems to be one of those every other game. Annoying since the tank either has to be focused down by all or go into a shitty angle to get her. Neither is fun and trying to get the team to do either isnt easy on those ranks.
you'd be the first Mercy with good stats in metal ranks if that'd be true lmao
Lie
I often play tank, but lately I just cant some days. Some days I have to chill and just dps or support. DPS is the chillest role in the game. Tank CAN be fun but it’s usually the most frustrating.
Whenever I hear it’s for ranked I always wonder which part of ranked because I’m sure some heroes are better in diamond than in bronze or silver
I feel like venture need some small buffs to burrow but they the devs gonna probably nerf them because i see a lot of people complaining lol. The dps doom and genji curse all over again
It needs a damage nerf but extended time. It’s not enough to get out of a fight, but it’s great for avoiding damage long enough to finish a kill.
Im not butthurt about the boop hate, lucio otp. I do wonder where we want boop's effectiveness though, if denying highground is unreasonable.
I think environmentals, despite being fun, are equally as cringe as one-shots. So i think the danger of buffing boop in the past was because it would spike the effectiveness of these cheesey environmentals.
The problem with that is that before s9 patch, boop felt largely pointless. It felt neglible on squishies, let alone tanks.
So if not effectiveness by denying space, where or how much space would we like to see boops effectiveness?
I wouldnt mind if being a bit less strong pushing power as a brig main. They took ours down a notch(when not needed), Lucios can afford a take down a notch too.
@@ianchambers37 That seems like a fine direction. I'm moreso curious of where we want to land the effectiveness in the ability.
I get so angry about people crying about one shots and abilitys, its and arena hero shooter, get it!
cringe is your thinking, go play CS
@@j.w.213 One shots encourage turtle gameplay. I'm tired of ppl crying that others don't want to be target practice. Go do that in training range : P
I think you need to play overwatch before you comment about overwatch just a thought @@j.w.213
It's weird every time orisa and hog are the best tanks the game is ass to play and I just quit to play other things. Every time those two are complete trash and no one picks them the game is super fun and I play it for 40 hours a week.
Also jukrat trap needs a rework. It should be 2 traps, breakable when you're in them by OTHER players not the person stuck. Have the damage be flat 30 when stepping in it. Junkrat ult either needs to be buffed for hp or reworked because projectile size just murdered his ult
Totally agree
He’s actually strong if you can aim the balls, but he sucks because he’s a DPS you can counter. Any game I do well on junk they break out zarya and pharah. Losing his one shot hurt a lot too
@AntLeonardi01 he is strong but niche. His trap and ult is really the only thing needs a tuning up on him. I agree he's got a high skill cap, easy to use but hard to master. I use angles and wall shots and I use my bombs to jump shot around ect to get value and force the enemy to look up. Traps are just used in flank routes and even then half the team won't turn on a trapped enemy so it's a very under utilized skill. And the ult is just terrible. Like literally if they have any character who has decent aim it's jot going to connect unless you drop tire out of a window onto the enemy team instantly or go for the single pick on somebody
Yeah... the junkrat subreddit collectively (or at least mostly seems to) agrees that outright removing trap in exchange for a rework to make him better would be great. One option was making primary fire shoot our different types of bombs and having trap keybind cycle between the bomb types. Another was damage multipliers for comboing. Etc. Overall, all we want is to just have junkrat be in a better state where we can exist and not have almost every hero in the game be soft or hard counters to him.
I watch this live so I will just have this video play in the background so flats still gets the view
Can Blizzard just make Orisa unplayable for a season or two like Hog before the rework. No one will miss her
These tier lists keep giving me deja vu of other tier lists of previous season lmao
I like how he describes the Tanks like its the water cycle lol.
i literally jus queued for comp rn and searched your latest tierlist thank you lmfao
Lmao it’s necessary
-_- one of those people who are like "Oh orisa is good cuz streamer said it" then hard ques orisa. Feels bad. I swear I see direct correlations in what people play based off this shit lmfao
@@belikebrett Because you're in comp to win, typically
Why would you play anything but Orisa right now when Orisa is just dominating by the fact she cant die lol
@@belikebrett why so mad buddy, i was looking at which dps are better right now lmfao. i don't wanna throw by playing people outside of meta rn
@@kpkazanbecause people play to have fun and Orisa is the last tank you choose for that
Hey look, Genji is literally right where I said he was. "People learned to play against him" yup, Genji is the only character that for some reason will jump 2-3 tiers without getting any changes over and over again, but people will argue with me when I say he needs to be balanced better. KarQ don't litsen
I've been playing open queue lately just to have (2) tank games and I gotta say, whenever things are not going well, I just swap hog and it seems to get way easier. If you be somewhat careful and just stay alive, it feels like you can do a lot and/or make it difficult for the enemy to do anything. I've found that trying to time healing/reloading with defense matrix/grasp/orisa spin is key.
Look how fall Hanzo is now when you simply just took his one shot. Like literally felt like a dead character.
I feel like tanks are balanced on a knife edge. They are either super unkillable like Orisa, Hog, and Mauga right now, or they are garbaggio like rein and winton. The tanks that don't fall into those categories can still be oppressive, like D.Va with her 4-second matrix.
Some tanks can always be forced because they got some quicky thing. Dva for matrix, Doom for kill potential and Ball for survivability. But all 3 of them need to play perfect or else they get shit on by the lethal Trinity.
hog beats orisa and isn’t easily countered by mauga is the most flats cope I've ever heard, i play hog and i can promise you its a lot simpler for the orisa and mauga players to stop hog from having impact on the game even remotely than it is for hog to play around their insane cds sustain and kill potential
Orisa beats Hog but Mauga is more manageable. He falls over pretty quickly now. Mauga being good is reliant on the supports.
As a road hog one trick/top500 it’s not the tank that’s stopping hog too much right now it’s one more buff that’s keeping him away from getting broken loose
I completely agree with you. Idk wtf flats is talking about with hog, he literally gets bullied by orisa and mauga. All three of her cds counter hook in some way and pig pen is useless on tanks and with fortify she doesn’t even get the slowdown effect. If you somehow win the lottery and land a hook on her she backs off with jav spin and you can’t even land a hit on her. It’s honestly ridiculous how outclassed hog is amongst the rest of the tank roster. Breather being the only ability that keeps him alive is being called op, like fuck off mate. Breather barely even heals you anymore 1 full swig just barely fills all your health then you’ve got to back off and wait until it refills again.
He just flabbergasts me with his stupid opinions sometimes. There is no timeline where hog will dominate the entire tank roster and if he ever manages to do so will last hardly a week before he’s nerfed to oblivion again.
@@donny8619 as a road hog one trick/top500 you really haven’t play hog before because mauga is easy to kill even orisa you just got to know what you’re doing not much
@@Hogonetrick yeah I know I mentioned mauga but I was more talking about orisa. He’s definitely more manageable than an orisa that’s for sure. At the same time top500 lobbies aren’t the same as casual or lower rank matches.
All you need to do in order to "fix" kiriko is nerf her healing a little bit to make it so she cant easily keep her tank up solo. This would make it so she is put more in a niche of double flex support like illiari or her team would have to play a lot more carefully. Her current healing basically just allows for her to do all the healing necessary for pretty much any playstyle which is the problem. Also, just add 1-2 seconds onto suzu and tp while youre at it because why not
Sym's strength is cooking barriers and then murdering with max beam. Strong vs Rein, Winston, Sigma.
The problem with orisa was never the shield, it was fortify. And fortify got BUFFED in overwatch 2
I will say the thing with lifeweaver is that if you understand fight tempos and have really good general team awareness of your health theirs actually wayyyy more opportunities to deal damage and use platform offensively the problem is still even after the buffs the platforms still get clipped by any geometry and raise you like half a meter at most at times, I’d take slightly less damage for a debuff that either poisons enemies after say fifteen thorns or weakens they’re damage by ten percent along with removing that cumbersome ass delay between switching and he becomes fundamentally the best designed support in my opinion just also revert his tree of life healing take his blossoms to 75 and that’s all he needs to be okay he’s not even really bad he just works so bad in execution but on paper he’s amazing
This. He is a very fun support at times once you get used to playing him and at least try to do more than healbot, and I believe he easily *could* be one of the healthier designs for support.
But since they refuse to to fix the parts of him that actually need it (Damage, swap time, petal bugs, grip bugs) they just micro buff his healing aspects until he becomes annoying to play against. Grip is a fine ability that shouldn’t get as much hate as it does, but it’s because the rest of his kit can sustain people so much after the buffs that it can become unfun to fight against.
If they focus more on QoL fixes and making his damage more consistent and reliable, they could easily tone his healing down and make him a more fun character to play as and against.
@@Barrnickle to me he’s like mercy but actually active and with a focus on assisting teammates positioning and enabling hyper aggressive plays and his weapon actually has kind of a point to use. The problem after one tricking him is that on his own that’s really all he has and if you are not 1v1ing dps or supports and bursting them down without healing or spamming shots his damage is anemic at best and pointless at worst, if he’s gonna have that I’d prefer his thorns to literally have any purpose other than a fairly inconsistent means of defense especially compared to mercy’s pistol this isn’t me complaining about my aim the thorns do so little damage against moving enemies without anything else you’re literally doing nothing to them, other than that he literally just needs better quality of life fixes and some nerfs to his overly potent healing. I hate how everyone shits on him but somehow mercy is still the most beloved support with 50,000 guides on her when you can be physically disabled and still play her to the same degree as not, while also being entirely passive in the game to be the most effective and she’s been much worse for the game over the years than lifeweaver ever could in my eyes the worst from him is enabling cheeky and kinda cheesy plays you can’t predict that well but even then that requires communication and timing a mercy can just follow you or a dps player that’s decent res them if they get picked off and when she literally thrives on lack of communication where lifeweaver is objectively worse without it.
Let's get a tier list of games to play while we wait in wide queue
Is there any chance we could get the 20% passive back but then make it 10-15% on tanks? It felt perfect on DPS and Supports but it just made tanks miserable so putting it more on everyone else and less on tanks makes it more valuable to shoot everyone else.
Blizzard listen to SuperPi, SuperPi is correct. Not sure why they caved and brought back down DPS passive, then are now creeping healing up again. Commit Blizzard! Imo it should be 10% max on tanks, but I'd prefer a general 50% status resist on tanks which would do the same.
I'd also prefer 6v6 and put the tank health pools to a bit above what they were in OW1 but you didn't mention that so I'm going off topic now... Maybe it would bring me back to the game.
@@ShockCombo I don't think 6v6 is gonna happen though. Like you said they did commit to 5v5. But yeah the main problem atm is tank feeling bad so that 50% status resist on tanks in general would be great.
A few days ago, I decided to try Junker Queen just for fun because I wanted to be more flexible with what I can play. It was the most fun I have ever had since season 1.
Nine minutes and only 87 likes???
He'll probably have more by tomorrow, Flats is a pretty popular Overwatch streamer.
4 dislikes though
Why comment this? Do you know how much he usually gets in 9 mins? If so then why? And why are you checking everyday if so? I have so many questions.
@@chronologikillgaming5887 It's okay, just take a deep breath and sit down somewhere comfortable. You'll figure it out eventually, I promise.
@@oceanman4166 Been there. Currently in the bed. Let me guess you don’t know the answer to any of those?
@@chronologikillgaming5887 he's joking, silly
What's great is that, as a Rein main, I've learned how to time Orisa's cooldowns so that I can push him off the map really often. I will usually leave the fight and ambush the Orisa until they switch xD then free picks on supports
I agree though that a phenomenal amount of skill is needed to make Rein useful, and a lot of times I have fold and switch against the enemy comp
I be seeing a lot of dive just cuz venture is new idk if it's necessarily the strongest
I think venture is a high A tier character. They can easily pick off someone and with the shield passive they’ll likely survive until they can burrow back to their team. I also noticed that they generate their ult very quickly and given that their ult does 130 dmg they can two shot half the roster. I think venture is very good that is hard to punish but they can be killed
The ulti needs either a nerf of less damage or less shots for sure. Also they dont need shields doing most of their moves. That was a pretty dumb idea. They made their damage supposedly be less impact and more dot but feels equally strong as before and just as annoying. Easily in the tracer, sombra, sym group of not fun to play against especially as support heroes.
@@ianchambers37nah the ult just needs to charge slower. Sometimes it’s busted other times it’s useless but it charges insanely quick
@@ianchambers37 bet my ass you just stand on ground when Venture ults...
@@j.w.213 lol not always
remove mauga orissa and hog for a week for “bug fixes” idgaf, see how fun the game gets. SEE HOW FUN
TRUE THO, I've started shunning and calling out tank players that play orida and mauga. I mostly play QM but even there it's just orisa 90% of games and mauga for and additional 8%, 1% are doom one tricks and the final 1% make up the rest of the tank playerbase that actually enjoys playing the game and not just ruining it with the same 2 heroes
For top-ranked queues they should allow narrow groups with the same restrictions as lower-tiers but just make it so that you also cant 5 stack. That way its only 1, 2, and 3 stacks in narrow games while wide games would only be 5 stacks (or 2/3 stacks if they had spread larger than 5 rank divisions which would probably never happen that high up anyways)
I remember hearing one of the hog rework tests was him dropping little fart clouds while healing that heal you allies and honestly, if they retooled Hogs kit to help the team by accident, he’d be the better for it
My main reaper, i cri 😢
dont, hes delusional
@@M1R1ND4ong this guy is delusional putting df in c tier is actually wild😂
@@landyn0981doom in c and reaper in D is such a joke
doom is really strong right now and reapers just mid not garbage
Lowkey, I still think Venture is a sleeper pick. If you know how to engage, you can do a great damage and still get somewhat unpunished. Still, they're a extremely fun character, so I might be a bit biased
They’re good in metal ranks
She amazing in metal ranks
@@tiddlycrib3720they
I’ve been waiting for this, in Flats I trust
Regarding lifeweaver i feel like the way to help him would be to give him a new passive like "love & war" or something where doing damage or healing temporarily increases his weapon swap speed or make some of his healing be o.t like moira's healing
BRING BACK OCTOBER 2020 6V6
Bro how many seasons have kiriko being in s tier??? Its still a busted character, nerf suzu to take out the inv effect and she will fall to B easily
I swear the devs hear the complaint “oh Lucio boops is worthless” and they’re like oh? “IS THIS ENOUGH SLICES?” Like they never give us just enough buffs they always either give us nothing on a character or mag dump buffs into them for a season then make them nearly unplayable the next
Venture's is the same opinion that was agreed upon during their demo time:
A crazy good All-in, but they basically 1for1 or die trying afterwards.
I pretty much agree, but LW is actually high B tier or low A tier now after the changes, especially when paired with good Illari. His tree actually cooks with that 90 hp per pulse and he's even more tanky now.
Lifeweaver is just an issue. He's either really good and feels like shit, or not that good, and right now it's the latter mostly due to the meta. But also, I feel like most have a little biased against him because of how unhealthy he is for the game
Aw hell nah
I wonder which tank will be at the top 😊
💀
DPS are just way too strong now after the hitbox buff its rediculous and people complain about lfe weaver and other supports you literally cannot do anything if the supports were not buffed.
Something that feels alien to me is the sentiment around doom.
Now i am someone that never switches, i just dont wanna be that guy, so holy shit i feel like doom runs the lobby when you arent counterpicking.
I think it kinda highlights the issue with the tank counterpicking scenario. Why do players counterpick? It probably isnt exclusively because x counters y, but likely because they also feel inneffective against the target on the character they were already playing.
Reaper in D tier?! This hurts me as a Reapist.
i legitimately think that there needs to be a serious discussion about going back to 6v6, it is likely the only solution to fix tanking imo
I think changing the oppressive tanks would be enough tbh. Change orisa and nerf the hell out of mauga and we'd see the tank roster open up a lot. I'm not overly worried about hog, I feel like most the tanks have enough in their kit to diff a hog especially if you have an ana, if we just went back to 6v6 nothing would change that much for the tanks. Imagine a mauga running into your team with a zarya bubble and a cleanse from kiriko. He'd be unstoppable. Same thing with orisa, like imagine orisa ult with a mauga cage follow up. Or ramattra with basically any other tank. People keep asking for 6v6 thinking it would immediately fix all the problems. I don't think it will. I think we'd just go back to ult dumping each other and the oppressive tanks would be even more oppressive. Like imagine mauga with a Winston or a Dva to challenge high ground for him. We'd need to address the issues that the tank role faces before 6v6 would fix anything
I actually feel Hanzo's niche isn't small at all. He is crazy strong against all tanks without a mit ability. JQ, Zarya after bubbles, Hog, Mauga. For the same reason as he is good against hog, he is good against those others. Just headshot 4head. I have swapped Hanzo against a dominating JQ or Zarya and it flips the game on its head.
Ive seen alot of ppl play mercy mostly bc of the skin but ive also seen a bunch of moiras. A couple lucios and zens
Might try Gigantic, you playing it piqued my interest and with how watch is going it'd be healthy to have an alternative