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Have OMSystems Lost The Plot?
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- čas přidán 22. 03. 2024
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If they are an outdoor company they should finally weather seal the 1.8 primes.
Great point. Wish I’d said that.
And the F|@# Pen F to begin with !😁
No market for the Pen F... Companies like Fuji and Ricoh can't keep up with orders for their small cameras, and Sony's A6xxx have been a huge success for years, but sure, no market for the Pen F. This is exactly why I, rather reluctantly, left M43 and went with Sony. I wanted a smaller camera system, but with the GX9 and Pen F not fitting my needs, I had to move on.
Fully agree, a new PEN-F mark ii with the specs of the OM-5 would be great. And to make it complete, also a new 15mm F2.8 (or similar) pancake lens to make is more pocketable.
I'm holding on to my PEN-F, but it's getting a bit outdated, so I'm using my OM-1 far more frequently.
I think OM Systems made a mistake just focusing on wildlife photography. I think they should have one or two ambassadors for other kinds of photography. Even if someone is not an ambassador maybe interview people that use their gear from time to time. I think its a bad idea to try and get ambassadors that only use OM Systems gear. Someone people might need another camera from other company from time to time for somethings.
You're spot on. OMSystem (Olympus) photography has marvelous products and solid reputation. But the owners, JIP, is a typical private equity firm...former investment bankers who know financial matters, not how to run a business. Clearly, as you point out, they lack marketing skill sets. I just hope they let the product design engineers and manufacturing management alone so that we continue to see high quality, in demand products being introduced to the market.
Sums it up perfectly
OM could really catch a cold if its not careful. The Pen Fii would sell like hot cakes but all OM seem to be interested is bigger, heavy glass. Fuji appeal to emotion and soul and just the love of photography, OM has lost this sadly.
I hear they are coming out with an updated version of the Pen-F, but with image stabilisation built in - it will be marketed as the Pen-IS.
lol. Brilliant
Will it have a flash? 🫣
It's a classic point and shoot
How about a purely stills camera with no video features and a really small form factor - the PEN-IS - NV XS?
Funny their marketing is what made me just switch from Fuji to Olympus. I’m into off-road (adventure *cringe*) cycling and the size and rugged features is what’s made me switch
OM System have chosen not to market to the street photographer at all. It's a shame and I think they're missing a trick. Theres no wonder people keep saying M43 is dead. It not because the tech has hit a ceiling, but that the companies aren't utilising their unique market position. People want stylish digital cameras and the new Pen F would fly off the shelf. I actually think Lumix will bring us a GX9 II (or whatever they would call it). Leica are supposedly bringing a new compact digital camera out which could prompt something from OM or Lumix, but there is a perfect window, I just don't want the M43 companies to be playing catch up like they have done previously.
Even though I’m seriously thinking about getting a Panasonic G9 mkii as my next camera (after 5 Olympus cameras) I still would like to see OM systems be successful to keep competition in the M43 world, but the direction the company is taking is hard to understand. This does not inspire too much confidence.
I think both OMD and Panasonic are missing a trick in not bringing out an updated Pen or updated GX9. I understand that orders for the newly launched Fujifilm X100 vi exceed 2 million. Well, I handled the camera at the NEC show last week, and IMHO I think the build quality of my old GX9 is notably better, plus the fact that it is an interchangeable lens camera. I'm pretty sure that an updated version with the G9 mkii sensor would sell like hotcakes, but unfortunately it probably won't happen. Fuji seem to be keen to mop up the small camera body market.
Fujifilm have dominated the small camera market, they own it now.
@@stevenbamford5245 Fuji doesn’t have to own the small camera market. Olympus has the Pen F and Panasonic has the GX8/9. All they need to do is update the features. It Panasonic put PDAF in the GX8/9 and I’d buy one.
I’ve preordered the X100VI on the 1st day it was announced. Hope to receive it this year. I’ve been on the waiting list for the X100V for a year.
You aren’t lost. OM system & Panasonic are lost. Misguided? Other focused?
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
You are all right!
100% right! And time to have a proper, free, updated and easy to use RAW processing program as well!
Same for Panasonic.. why no GM5 Mk ii .. Why?!? 😢
Let's start with the doing away of the name "Olympus"...A good indication of future blunders from a marketing standpoint!
I would love a PEN F 2, and I don't understand why OMS has not made one. I asked OMS at the photography show last week, but no answer was given. Anyway, I just bought a second-hand PEN F from WEX that has just over 5000 shutter activations. Well pleased. I love it, it is a beautiful camera and takes beautiful images. I'm going out to have some fun with it tomorrow. 😊
I think the new owners never intended to recreate and rebuild the brand. Olympus would have gone down in Japanese infamy if they did not spin it off (accounting scandal). It's a cultural thing. The new owners (JIP) have a pattern of taking companies and products that have fallen into "Japanese disrepute" and slowly wringing as much profit from them, but also winding them down...with honor (important to them).
Olympus had a lot of things in the fire...perhaps too many, but still... a lot for JIP to work with. They made a brand (OM-D) and are playing out the same pattern. They just have more to work with and wind down. I think you are seeing hints in their terminology now. In the end...cellphones hurt micro, and especially Olympus. Panasonic, with much more resources at its disposal...opened up a full frame line. Olympus never could.
With the right minds for developing and marketing OM could’ve been a major threat for Fujifilm. I think OM missed the marker on a few things. A Trip17 rangefinder styled fixed lens camera would’ve competed with the x100. An OM classic styled body with an aperture dial and shutter speed dial on the front of the camera would’ve been innovative. To go along with the OM classic they could’ve launched a series of affordable manual focus primes. Marketing to purely wildlife has the potential to backfire when the equipment works in nearly any situation.
Ask OM same questions less than a month ago. Wondering how many customers will switch to Nikon and Fuji to get the camera they want, hate to but I'm close.... keep up the good work!
OM Systems has lost the trust from old Olympus times as regards small packages, I fear. With no update in sight, I still love my Pen E-P5 with small lenses, but I've been peeking into the Fuji direction seriously.
Thanks for your assessment. I'm with you 100%.
I would love a Pen F of any number. They must be so good as they never hit the secondhand market and when they do, they’re over the top expensive! I love all my Oly lenses, and have just bought my first Lumix one as it was the range I wanted - and light! I wish Olympus would get their act together and produce cameras for everyone, not just the pro market, and one with a tilt LV screen, not an articulated one. I know the OM-D EM10 iv has one, and I use that, but it won’t fit in my pocket, and just does in my handbag. Small and discreet, that’s what I want. Thanks Brian, you’re spot on as usual😊
This is typical when a company takes over the brand, inevitably changes will occur often without much regard to the demographics of the OM brand.
I've been waiting for a Pen F mkii for years now. The last two Olympus cameras I purchased were the em5 mk ii with two of the pro lenses, I have purchased several of the prime lenses while patiently waiting for a retro street shooter styled body. If OM system doesn't hurry up, the money I have put a side will be spent on a Ricoh gr ( hopefully a model iv ) and that will be the last of my loyalty to Olympus/OM gear.
I agree, the marketing is off. I have to admit my expectations might be off as well. When the OM5 was released, I hoped they would have added bird autofocus tracking and the new menus. In my mind they've had tracking for a couple of years and surely the current processor could handle it. Keeping higher shutter speeds and the full feature set for the OM-1. As a hobbyist, I wanted the OM-5 for it's size and lighter weight but missed the tracking from the R7. I lucked out and found a used OM-1 during my local camera shop's used gear sale. So I returned the new OM-5 with kit lens and added a few bucks for the OM-1 with dual batteries and charger without the lens.
I haven't used any PEN cameras but they look like great compact cameras. I'd love a full spectrum converted model.
One of the stand-out feature of the Pen-F is its build quality, nearly everything that looks like metal is metal, the fit and finish is superb, ok it isn't weather sealed but its main competitors were no better in this respect. Wex in Edinburgh have a nice display of leading mirrorless camera, customers can pick them up and check the ergonomics etc. Looking at the OM1 compared to all of the offerings from Sony, Canon, and Nikon 35mm and Fuji APSC, the OM seemed to have nicer build quality, the others apart from Fuji seemed to be mostly made of plastic. I wonder if this is part of OMS's problem, people love the Pen-F but its expensive to make, Fujfiilm seem to be having similar problems with their X-Pro line.
Actually, right now i can really use an OM System walking stick, one that can turn into a monopod would be really handy. I buy my gear new, but when on special. I bought my 300/f4 for just over A$2700. These days on special at the same retailer it is A$3500, so i still haven’t lost money on it. I completely agree that OM System is not very efficient at marketing. I will really like it if they can tell us more about that promised 50-250/f4 and my choice, the 50-200/f2.8. I hope i’m wrong, but I’m afraid it’s been shelved. Oh, don’t change your intro music, i love that tune!.
It seems clear to me R&D and new product development have been cut to the bare minimum at OM systems. Just enough to keep the pulse alive. The only significant products that have been released since JIP took over were ones already in the pipeline under Olympus. Everything recent is just rebadged Sigmas at inflated prices or putting new skins on old products, like the 9-18mm. I suspect JIP are mainly interested in monetising old Olympus product development that wasn’t released at takeover and then monetising goodwill from the M4/3 user base. There is no sign that they are committed for the long haul or doing anything to make Olympus more attractive to new users.
OMS is just squeezing the pockets of the very loyal customers they have.
For every person asking for a Pen-F, you have an OMS hardcore loyalist, saying they will buy whatever OMS releases, even if it's a $2200 firmware upgrade, the loyalist will buy it.
The difference is having to pay for r&d into a body, versus using recycled parts and selling it off as a new product. It is easier (and cheaper) to sell the recycled parts to loyalists, then to create something new, and not know who will buy it.
Personally, I wanted a Pen-F and would have bought one new. Since they have waited so long, I have lost interest, and am no longer in the market for it, and even if released, OMS won't be collecting one red cent from me.
Pen F ii would be a wonderful update. Have OM seen the prices on the used market for the original Pen F? The fact that people can charge a king's ransom for this 8 year old camera virtually screams "market" for an update.
NO - they were not talking about boost and tents. What they said was: "to concentrate on promoting OM System as the obvious choice for any outdoor-type photography thanks to the portability of the cameras and lenses. OMDS says it is shifting to become an outdoor company making imaging products. The term “outdoors” encompasses wildlife, macro, landscape, travel and adventure."
I think thats brilliant. They are focusing on their strength which ist rubust, weathersealed, portabel, very fast and versatile. Saying this means "indoor" (portrait, weddings,...) is not their focus. Non professional photographers will still use their smartphones for indoor and even travel. But you can't really use a smartphone for wildlife, macro and landscape. And you may not want to hike with 2-3 kilos more in a bulky backpack with fullframe. You maybe right that a new vintage PEN-F will have a market. But putting the core features of an OM-1 into a PEN-F may makes financially no sense when selling it at 1000 bucks. Thats nothing else than dropping the OM-1 price below 1000. I think in marketing terms they are not really off track. We just need to stop thinking that in a shrinking digital camera market a company can serve everyones needs and be everybodys darling. Speaking in photography terms I think they just apply "good focus".
HI, As You say it sounds like CAT 🙂, excavators for construction, but also boots, raincoats, backpacks, t-shirts, motor generators... just no cameras so far. When NASA use NIKON that is outdoor too?
I wonder if the deal with Olympus meant that after this two I year period they are no longer allowed to bring out Cameras with Olympus trade marked names? Of course they could bring out the Pen F mk II without calling it that.
the outdoor stuff might be well to do with binoculars/monoculars and scopes etc. because its not only OMDS but Nikon does optics IIRC. they still do.
i read about the interview and paid upgrade being an option is also an option to just drive away more customers/newcomers.
Agreed, Brian.
Maybe OM System believe they have this market/segment covered with their PEN E-P7? But it's a far more basic camera that e.g. the OM-5 and not as visually appealing as the PEN-F.
A weather sealed and updated Pen-F would be a no brainer for OM Systems.
If they start selling gold high-tops, I'm definitely in!
I’ve given up on OM Systems. Love my Pen F, except for the flippy screen. I’m now hoping for a weather sealed GX9 MkII.
Thanks! Keep up the great work!
Thank you Roger for the channel support
No wonder so many left and continue to leave the M4/3 plateform 😅
X100VI is alot of fun. I like it . Too bad it goes to my oldest daughter. Will get myself one in November
November of what year?
Mask On Nurse Marty (Ret)
I couldn't agree with you more, I think a Pen F II would be a fantastic product. But I wonder if OM Systems has the financial resources to "tool up" the factory to manufacture any new products at this time.
I wouldn't put much trust in what 43 Rumors said.
Nice video thanks Brian. An outdoor company that does optical products? Maybe they're going to concentrate on street photography then. You can't get much more outdoors than the street. I agree a new Pen F would fly off the shelves. Or maybe a Pen G. I'll just carry on with my G100 for now...
I see some other comments about Panasonic's lack of attention to the 'rangefinder-style' MFT cameras also -- Lumix had some great models, but oddly it looks like they have given up on that market also -- yet, as you point out, other companies are doing very well (Sony too, right?) with that style camera. But heck -- we don't run those companies.... But I am looking forward to my OM-Systems tent and sleeping bag!!!!
If sony did not sell their bsi/stacked sensor to Olympus, what essential technological improvements remains since 2019? Pen F II: We make music for a blind man, in order to let him dance.
Totally agree, hope om system gets it's act together
Well, the Pen F doesn't have a fixed lens and Fuji's film simulations. Could that be why OMSystems thinks there is no market for a new Pen F?
Whatever the reason, it's sad news. A new Pen F would be a very welcome addition the MFT lineup.
I use an Olympus E-M5 iii and a Panasonic GX8 for the photography I do, where people rely on me for photos. So it's not like I need a Pen F - the GX8 works very well as my rangefinder style camera in that setup, but it would be a nice upgrade.
I get the outdoor company/optical direction. It’s a strategic choice which speaks to the strengths of the range..light, weather sealed, cameras, lenses, binocs etc. Giving up on the Pen F seems odd. I can only think the assessment for the Pen F market includes higher risks than they’re willing to take. Competition, high specs/high costs/low profit in that segment? Didn’t Olympus take a bath on the last one, despite it being a wonderful product?
Could you please do a video on composition, and what never to crop out of a photo? I hear criticism of not cropping out limbs or ears, but what about in landscapes? Must the entire tree be left uncropped?
I’m of the opinion that it’s in the eye of the photographer. I’ve said many times that rules are for the obedience of fools and the guidance of the wise.
If the tree looks ugly then crop it out or crop part of it out. However, if the tree is that bad I’d be questioning my composition in the first place. Do I need to move to get my shot but without the tree in shot? do I need a different focal length? Leaving an item uncrossed but ugly can draw the eye toward it but if cropped it becomes more incidental.
I think the bigger issue is where I crop something off. For instance if taking a photo of someone cutting off the lower leg just below the knee looks ok but chopping at the kneecap looks odd, cutting off just above the ankle looks odd without the feet.
Plus it’s sometimes where the cropped item is placed in the shot. It may work at the sides but not in the centre where it is more dominant or vice versa. Is the tree a feature of the shot or an incidental? Does its form point to or highlight something else in the photo?
Maybe OM Systems feel that the OM-5 is the next Pen F from a marketing point of view and yet actual sales tell another story? It's an easy low hanging fruit for OM Systems just to add some new features here and delete some there and not take away from the OM-5. Or they can just release it as a limited edition, one of a kind camera, and damn the marketing sales! And then sit back and watch this new camera lay the smack down on the competition on a global scale, and only worry about having the problem of "that we can't make enough limited editions!"
Well after they released a sigma clone at double the price i thought to myself they may as well make microwaves they don’t care about photography. Even their OM-1 ii, as if it’s that much better than the previous model, really? Lost the plot? Absolutely. Looks i will be going back to Nikon soon.
Could they be saying that they're not going to produce a camera that is not weather sealed? So, no PEN F mk2? Will we see a follow-up to the EM10 mk4?
With Panasonic withdrawing their ranger style GX cameras (for now only we hope), the PEN F would have an incredible advantage.
Would love updated GX9. I guess everyone wants something different - me: weather-sealing, better EVF, improved focus. I'm actually happy enough with the sensor, but wouldn't object to an improved one ;-)
Brian, I think you are taking this "outdoor company making optical products" statement too literally. Marketing people are famous for making odd statements which really don't reflect a company's position, but in this case I think they are restating their commitment to OM System cameras being the best for outdoor, active photography. Take a look as how Harley-Davidson succeeded beyond anyone's expectations by selling a "lifestyle" rather than motorcycles.
I get the lust for a PEN-F Mk II because I finally yielded a month ago to the desire for a PEN-F that I've had since they came out. Got a very good deal on a mint copy and I "get it". But, my take is that all the people who says they want a new version likely don't all want the same camera, nor are they thinking about how their dream PEN-F might be priced.
First, who's the market for a new PEN-F? Wildlife? Travel? Street photography? More likely the latter, so what of the global list of OM System tech wouldn't be needed in such a camera? Live ND and Live GND? Likely not. HHR? Likely not as it requires stationary subjects. We need to make a features list because what is and isn't included will affect the price, and the appeal to other markets. Should this camera be aimed at the GRIII at the US $1,100 price point (in which case the E-P7 is already available for less money), or the Fuji X100VI at US $1,600? Or, a unique niche that is it's own?
Given all the senseless complaining about the OM-1 Mk II and the new 150-600mm lens, I think we of the on-line community have an opportunity - and obligation - to do some of our own market research and product planning. There are enough well-know and respected vloggers in the OM Systems community that together there could be several grand discussions about a PEN-F Mk II, complete with on-line surveys. If we convince ourselves first that there is a spec for a new camera that has widespread appeal, and then take that to OMDS, we might get the attention of OMDS. In the end I think this would take less time and be more productive than all the endless wishing for a new PEN-F.
Hi Greg, of course I’m taking it too literally, I’m British and ex armed forces, we live on being sarcastic and irreverent. That’s what it was, my sarcastic sense of humour. Of course they are not making tents or boots. But their marketing statement was pompous and poorly worded. My 7 year old granddaughter could probably have done it better. I knew what they were getting at but they really do deserve a p*ss taking response from me for it.
Actually there have been a couple of responses back like yours where people have not realised it’s my humour. Yours is the only one I’ve responded to positively as you were pleasant. The others less so, one person I’ve now blocked. So thank you for that.
As for the rest of your comment on the Pen-F, yup, pretty much agree with you there.
Best wishes.
Brian
@@ThatMicro43Guy Brian, in fairness to you I figured you were just "going off" as we say in the States and that it was all tongue-in-cheek. My concern is that it seems so many people just can't take a freakin' joke these days. I have never see so much vitriolic criticisms of cameras as since OMDS took over Olympus. If OMDS does the same things Olympus did they get skinned alive by outraged "customers" (using a Sigma FF lens, and "small" upgrades like the E-M5 Mk III to the OM-5). It's all so disgusting that I've stopped viewing many channels I used to enjoy. So, my comments were meant more for those who might not apricate your hyperbole.
And, it's all this unjustified (IMHO) "outrage" attacking new products which is behind my most serious suggestion that the Oly/OMS community really talk about what a PEN-F Mk II should look like,. And especially if it makes financial sense for a company of limited recourses (now the smallest major camera company) in the middle of transition and building a new brand to take a risk on such a product. I would buy what I conceive an PEN-F Mk II to be in a heat beat - but would others?
Thanks for all you do!
Bollocks, they are starting to p me off. I can't believe what this company is doing! I have been waiting for 6 years for the MK2. Well many thanks OM-Shit now we will have to spend a premium to a premium for a used MK1. See Brian, I Told you last time this company as lost their sense of direction. They do not listen to their customers. Thanks for sharing this with us. I know do not shoot the messenger ;-) Have a great one. Miguel
Well OMS isnt going to do it. And dont even suggest it on there instagram page it get removed as hate speach. That made me get Nikons new retro ZF.
Yes, ff lenses adapted is stupidity in itself. yet people still defend it. i guess they missed what mft was all about . Now they want to compete with gopro and dji🤣They seem clueless now, i was tempted to come back to mft but not so sure . They're going the wrong way. i have the zf not the c
Just a little humorous observation - maybe be careful where you sit in your car in the dark with a torch on. 😂 just saying!! No harm meant !
So not outside the girls dormitory then lol
OM system are a small company, they have chosen their market, everything will revolve around the OM-1 series.
The original Pen F flopped in Japan and had average sales in other territories, for them to rush to that market now wouldn't be a good move, they would just be on the tailcoat of Fujifilm and Nikon.
For a company that has released three cameras all aimed at the adventure and wildlife market it seems like a good move to concentrate on that sales demographic.
It is doubtful if OM system will ever develop a camera product from the ground up without existing r&d from Olympus.
If Olympus discontinued manufacture of the Pen series prior to OM's acquisition, then its likely the tooling is not available to OM to re release even the original version of the Pen, let alone an improved version. It would require a complete redevelopment from the ground up, something OM system doesn't have either the budget or resources to achieve. It seems OM is in denial regards the potential popularity of a newly released Pen. To be fair to OM I've no doubt they are fully aware that retro styled cameras are doing rather well. Playing Devils advocate for a second, how many folk asking for a new Pen series camera would be willing to pay upwards or even over £/$2,000 for one?....Yeah thought not 😉
I hope they come out with a new Pen
Quello che si vede è un bombardiere Vulcan 👍.
OM Systems are a bunch of idiots and will be out of business by 2025. Get your old Olympus gear before prices skyrocket.
I agree. They've released some great products, but at the same time, they've made some blunders. The E-P7 wasn't made available in North America...big mistake. I don't think they understand the overall photography market. I also suspect there's a cultural issue here (whoever is making the decisions isn't listening to the consumers and possibly persons below and on the frontlines).
They also don't have the resources that any of the other major camera manufacturers have. This is the only stream of revenue (as far as I understand) for OMDS. Like you, I've been sitting here wondering how difficult it would be to package essentially an OM-5 or even the OM-1 Mark 1 into a Pen-F body with some good film simulations,. I'm not even sure it needs all the fancy AI focus capability of the OM1s or EM1X or any better video than the current OM-5 has (save for people and eye detection). It really is about the aesthetics. I'd buy one, especially if its weather-sealed.
The original Pen-F was beautiful, but hard to justify financially for a lot of people when it came out, so it didn't get the sales Olympus had hoped for. The E-PL lineup was great but they took away the possibility of having the external viewfinder, which was a nice feature for bright days. And as I said, I couldn't get an E-P7 over here in North America (I still don't understand that decision). I was ready to pounce on that the moment they announced it. I think you called it (or maybe it was Peter Forsgard), the Pen-F Lite.
On a side note, here in Toronto, we recently had the Outdoor Adventure Show and the Outdoor Sportsman Show. Two exhibitions for outdoor adventurers. OMDS wasn't at either show, but Fujifilm was. They had a small booth, but in both shows, they were there. OMDS, where were you?
No, I cannot take credit for that quote so it must have been Peter
💯
To the point JIP bought Sony’s laptop business and ran that into the ground; i feel they are doing a repeat to Olympus camera. I don’t understand how these people can be so dumb and still be in business? 30/35 megapixel Pen-F mk ii with Sony level auto focus, top notch evf, complete updated f1.5 maybe f1.6 weather seal primes that would fly off the shelves! What do they do; bring out an over priced Sigma full frame lens. Hell after that new Pen-F start bringing in the money I would introduce a monochrome version of the Pen.
Olympus lost the plot .. the OM Systems .. Panasonic too 😅
All M4/3 ecosystem lost the plot really 😢
I didn't think I'd hear from you going off on a tangent and not listening to what you're announcing. When in the OM system chat was there any indication of "attire" and how is that related to photographic gear ? Have you taken Trump on board with your own Marketing team ? this sounds like the direction, he'd like to lead the Public on in order to get folks believing in his way of thinking.....jackets and boots ? where did you come up with that ? not sounding like a genuine follower of M4/3