Testing MDF vs Plywood - What to Buy?
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- čas přidán 28. 05. 2024
- Can you use MDF and save money vs plywood? I put MDF and plywood through 10 tests to find out!
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0:00 The Contenders
0:30 Weigh In
2:00 Strength Test
3:50 Make MDF Shelves 2X Stronger
4:22 Finishing Test
6:21 Wetability Test
8:59 Workability Test
11:08 Why I Hate MDF
12:55 Stability & Flatness
13:57 How to Store Sheet Goods
14:41 Fastener Friendliness Test
17:00 Robustness Test
18:40 Joint Strength Test
22:16 The Results - Jak na to + styl
Watch this next!
5 Mistakes Buying Plywood - czcams.com/video/eBbUByyLGVc/video.html
When I have to put in screws in the side face of mdf, I always cover the screw in woodglue....Dont know if it helps, but I sleep a lot better 🤣
When a video doesn't have matric system of measurements it's a dislike for me. Only 3 countries in the world use your stupid imperial system
Hey, I just want to let you know that scammers are using a fake profile with your picture, maybe you should let your viewers know.
*I'm not surprised. Maple ply is used in skateboard manufacturing.*
Based on my experiences with wet wood, the plywood will dry and keep a similar shape and strength whereas the mdf will bulge and stay bulged with significantly weakened strength.
All the trim in our new house is white painted MDF. A water spill on the window sill caused severe blistering. A water leak in the laundry room caused the base board to bulge and split open. I'm very unhappy with MDF in places that could get wet (bathrooms, utility rooms, window sills, etc.). As the poster said, at least wood will retain its usefulness after it drys out.
@@Rubik3x Polyurethane based laquer or paint is resistant to water and moisture but only if the whole MDF product is completely painted with it. If just the visible surfaces are painted there is no point of using polyurethane based paints.
@@Rubik3x A few more years living in the fumes created by formaldehyde in the MDF, and you'll get cancer. I'd advise to consider burning down the house and build anew or just sell and move.
"MDF fiberboard was banned from production and importation into the United States back in 1989 because of high emissions during manufacture. However, with newer manufacturing methods available today this ban has been lifted on some types such as medium density fiberboard panels. The EPA states that mdf products manufactured outside America are not subject to these requirements and can still be imported (Environmental Protection Agency). Some other countries have also stopped making or importing mdf board due to environmental concerns including Canada, China, France, Sweden and Denmark (EPA). These bans were brought about by studies that highlighted how using materials like mdf may increase people's exposure to formaldehyde gas which causes cancer at certain levels of exposure."
@@sasab7584 and if they use mdf, i doubt anyone will paint all surface. I see no one did that. if you want waterproof, just use pvc baseboard. it will make no sense to paint all surface as its time/cost consuming vs pvc
@@HJWang-tl4meperhaps I used mdf baseboards at my house. Be prepared to invest time and the results are always the best. Painted the boards all around and very happy with the durability I've enjoyed.
One thing to remember about MDF soaking up water - it will swell and disfigure itself much more than typical plywood. Natural wood expands and contracts along the grain, but the alternating orientation of each ply helps minimize the amount that a finished product will swell. MDF has no such constraint, so while it may soak up water more slowly, it will eventually warp much more noticeably. This is especially apparent in bathrooms around baseboards. I've had to replace several MDF baseboards in bathrooms because they will soak up the ambient moisture in the room. Worse, once MDF is supersaturated, the excess moisture will leach into your drywall and you may wind up having to replace a portion of the wall, too.
If you have kids who splash in the tub, or anyone who regularly forgets to turn on the bathroom fan to vent excess moisture, I would heavily recommend finger jointed pine or even upgrading to a tile/stone baseboard that compliments your flooring. If you have to spot repair and must use replacement MDF, I'd recommend sealing the backside and the bottom of the molding with a thin layer of caulk so that if you ever have to replace it again, the moisture does not wick into your drywall.
Yes, my kitchen cabinets suffered from this, but only along the floor. So I had the lower cabinets made from pkywood and the upper ones from MDF.
Try using "MEDEX", the water resistant exterior version of MDF next time. Worth the extra cost, much like using "greenboard" drywall, rather than common drywall, in moisture-prone areas like bathroom, kitchen, and laundry room. Can be shaped and painted, like desired, without the absorption problem.
My rule of thumb... MDF for jigs in the shop... Plywood for high use furniture projects. MDF can work really well as a veneer base for larger box lids that may have cupping if you use real wood or plywood.
I've never had an issue making all of my sleds and jigs from MDF, and it saves a ton of money, and I often like the extra heft to dampen vibrations.
It's the best material for router jigs
How about to put as walls on top of insulation in a single brick detached garage? What would you choose?
Before CZcams, from the craftsmen on PBS and (very old! original TLC etc.) I learned about using Baltic Birch and ApplePly for this purpose. I think MDF is cheaper and can be found at the Big Box store.
@@thibdelaf2808 Drywall (sheet rock)
Hard to do but sagging over time is one of my biggest concerns for MDF. One thing to add about its workability/strength is that small details have none.
Yes, useful overview of things to consider, which I really liked, but the testing in this regard was somewhat incomplete. In my former life I was a materials engineer. What was tested was essentially a measure of stiffness (modulus of elasticity, lol, intrinsically). What you are raising is issue of "creep". Toughness (measure of ability to absorb energy), resistance to fatigue, tensile and compressive strengths, expect are all possible measurements. A glass shelf would have done very well in stiffness up to point of failure, then not so good, lol. Good overview just the same. Can Google some proper testing results on material properties I expect.
This is some great stuff brother. Would love to see testing pine vs oak vs poplar in 3/4" material ! Some common stuff that we all use! Curious about pocket hole joinery strength in basically anything too!
Pocket hole strength would be a good one! Maybe that's our next collab, you come and stand on them for the final "lineman" test 😂😂
Pocket hole slow you down ,I think a newbie get a biscuit jointer first run it to max then see if you need a pocket hole [I won't call it joinery]
I think both of your channel and video are amzing thanks
I think your moisture test is not very good. The point is not to see how much water each product absorbs, but how much said water affects the strength of the product. In that respect, the pine and maple will be just fine with the water they absorbed. They'll dry and everything will be fine and dandy. The MDF however is compromised now, and you can't rely on it for anything.
This is a great point. I was more testing short term moisture exposure, not long term exposure and effects. That said, the plywood absolutely swelled as well, but not as much as the MDF.
No matter what wood material you use, it will weaken under moisture. But no one’s leaving there work pieces or work benches outside to get rained on. And no one’s using wet wood for projects
@@Fixthisbuildthat Thanks!
To be clear: Swelling is not the point. I believe the plywood will shrink back down to somewhere in the neighborhood of its original size, but don't quote me on that. It does however retain its structural integrity in the process. MDF, however, will not do that. Its structural integrity is completely destroyed by moisture, and there's no repairing it.
Thanks for the video, big fan of the channel :)
Very humid countries will also have issues on MDF over time.
There are special kinds of water resistant MDF.
Growing up my dad taught me "there are no bad materials, just bad applications." plywood vs mdf isn't a matter of one being better outright, but of when you should use them. If you're building a set of cubbies for a kids room, I'd probably build the shelf bottoms out of plywood, but the non structural parts can be MDF to save some money.
I believe your choice in wood depends on your skill level and your variety of tools. Your projects are always showroom quality in construction and appearance, so the more expensive maple is suited to your abilities. For those without a full workshop and basic tools in the around $250 or below range cheaper wood may be a preferred option. I'll be bummed making a mistake on MDF sheets but I'd continue on. Messing up a $90 sheet would be so discouraging I'd probably give up completely to cut my losses. If the project is for your own use, durability for intended purpose and cost are more important. I've made things out of MDF that are still holding up after 10 years and the only reason to consider re-doing them is because I believe I can now do it better. But not so much better that I take the chance of buying wood that cost 3 times as much.
That's a good perspective. MDF definitely give some room for not overthinking cuts and usage of "nice wood"
It's important to note on the water test that MDF deforms when water is absorbed. You can see it in the soak test that the section of MDF soaked in water actually swelled considerable where the plywoods did not. Just thought I would mention since it wasn't in the video. Something to consider for potential wet applications like baseboards and such.
Great information. One thing you did not consider in your testing is the cost of each sheet. Depending on the project, that would be an important factor. Just food for thought! Love your channel.
MDF is the original epoxy-table. Just with more pieces. Probably why I gravitate towards it.
You're always one step ahead, Cam. Can't wait for the MDF table video
Takes his "Everyone hated me for using this wood" video to another level
There is a type of MDF called Valchromat where they stain the wood particles so the colour runs all the way through the board and then bond it together with epoxy rather than formaldehyde.
Here's an idea: build a cabinet with shelves from different materials. Put a decent amount of weight on each. Let em sit for a few months, tell us how much they're sagging
For MDF or particle board you can use Confirmat screws, To drill the hole you use a stepped bit specifically designed for these screws. I built all the kitchen cabinet in our first house, 30 years ago, using these screws and had no issues with splitting.
I need to check those out
Or Dynaplus MDF screws if you're in Europe. Can be screwed into 18 mm MDF without pre-drilling.
For staining pine I learned that if you use a "black tea stain" first, the color comes out a lot more evenly. Boil 1.5 cups of water, put 10 bags of Black Tea in it and let it steep for 30 minutes. Move to a container of your choice (mason jar in my case)and let sit for 12 hours. Apply with a foam brush, let dry, sand back down to 180nor whatever, then apply your stain if choice
that's wild, never heard of that
Does that basically do the same thing as a prestain conditioner then?
I'd guess it's the tannins in the Tea that work on the pine, making it more susceptible to the stains. It could be interesting to know if Tannin extracted from Oak-Galls have a similar effect.
Likely this is the result of water popping and evening out the summer growth vs the winter growth tonality wise. I frankly hate the look of home center carried stains since they are oil based with too many pigment solids. My personal favorite stains are alchohol and aniline dyes. Fully transparent and don't accumulate in the grain and then wipe off in the denser parts. General or WD Lockwood have a great range of colors that lead to decent results on hard to stain(maple) and "ugly" woods like pine and fir.
This is a century’s long method. As a matter of fact, I did it to my red oak floor before polyurethane.
Six years ago I redid the kitchen, building 42 cabinets (uppers and lowers) from MDF. Part of the remodel was creating a 12' by 8' "L-shaped" island. Joinery consisted of many hundreds of 2" long 1/4" dowels and glue. Face frames were made from poplar. The cabinets were all sprayed with white oil based primer and enamel on all sides and edges. I pre-built the kick/bases from pressure treated plywood, sealed with shellac and painted. I mounted and leveled the bases to the floor and then set the cabinets onto them. Then we had a 1-1/4" solid granite top installed with a 1" over hang in the front and sealed along the back edge. The island has a 12" overhang along two sides. So far so good. Still square and solid. Thanks for sharing.
You missed the most important consideration when talking about MDF.
How it holds up in your finished piece if that piece ever gets wet.
Spills, floods, leaks, etc. are a fact of life, and that's the main reason I usually stay away from MDF.
Yes, it may not wet as easily, but when it does get wet, it basically just disintegrates, whereas most ply can usually handle some wetting and drying without delaminating.
This means you can be much more confident that your finished piece will hold up to the rigors of time.
There are places where MDF does make sense, and if properly protected from getting wet, it has its place, but if there is any possibility in my mind of it getting wet, I'm going for the ply.
The end screwing and joint strength can be easily overcome by assembly technique. I know a cabinet maker who uses mdf on any non visible side and it holds up great. You use a dado blade, glue the mdf into that, then screw it into small pine blocks through the face of each piece to hold until it dries/ to slightly reinforce it
Another great video, loved this breakdown! I've been watching your stuff for about 3 years now and I've got to say that you have, by far, the best editing of any other woodworking channel I'm subscribed to. Clean cuts and transitions, great close-ups for detail work, speeding up through the less interesting parts, and really enjoyable rolling commentary throughout. I really enjoyed the graphics on this one, adds a whole lot of character to the whole video. Just wanted to say that all your hard work in each video is clearly evident and thank you for all of the entertainment over the years!
Thank you so much! We put a lot of hard work into these videos and our editor Chris is a whiz with the graphics. Glad the effort shines through!
Fantastic video and really interesting from a New Zealand point of view. As an avid home handyman building CZcams watcher, I have always laughed at the price you pay for maple and birch ply and the fact mdf seems to be poorly regarded in the US / Canada. For the average home handyman, mdf is all we can afford in New Zealand. I have just done a price check on maple plywood in NZ. An 18 mm sheet was $US208 from one place that actually gave the price. Most places, you had to ʻAsk for a quote" as they didnʻt want to be responsible for heart attacks if people saw the price on line. Same 18mm sheet in mdf is $US47!!! I actually live about 5 miles from the first MDF factory built in the Southern Hemisphere and it was interesting to visit on an open day one Sunday a long time back. The radiata pine is chipped up into real fluffy stuff about a foot high which is then compressed down into 1 inch approximate board with glue injected, and then cut and sanded on large wide flat belt sanders to the required size. As others have said, mdf is no good outside long term, even if painted well. One other thing Iʻm not sure if anyone has mentioned but Iʻve never been able to pocket hole screw into mdf successfully. What is very disturbing here in NZ is that where once upon a time joinery factories were making tables, pantries, etc using melamine covered mdf sheeting (hope you know what this is?) most have now replaced this with melamine covered low quality chipboard, I guess for price reasons... Absolute rubbish build quality. Love to know where the radiata plywood came from? Iʻm looking our my window at some radiata pines and it is all you see on our logging trucks these days. Heaps is exported from NZ. I had to get some plywood a while back to build a big outdoor storage unit for childrenʻs bags at my wifeʻs school. Despite all the timber milling in NZ, it came from Chile!!!
Thanks again for a great video from way down in NZ!
As a plywood producer, I'm here to help you choose the right plywood when you visit the store. First, note that there are two types of glue used in plywood: phenol-formaldehyde and urea-formaldehyde. Phenol-formaldehyde offers high water resistance and is superior, but more expensive. Urea-formaldehyde lacks water resistance.
Second, consider the thickness of the veneer layers. A half-inch plywood with 5 layers is less sturdy than one with 7 layers. The thinner the layers, the stronger and more expensive the plywood.
Lastly, plywood can be made from coniferous or deciduous trees. Coniferous plywood usually has better glue quality but lower mechanical strength, while deciduous plywood is the opposite. However, there are exceptions.
Above all, pay attention to the manufacturer, as product quality can vary significantly between different brands.
I really enjoyed this video. Maybe you could do a second part that factors in types of projects (shelves, cabinets, etc.) and cost-to-performance?
Thank you for this. This answered a whole bunch of questions for me that will help me choose the right material for an upcoming build.
Just had the windows in my home replaced. Pulled off all the wood stained window casing and replaced the casing with 4” (actually 3.5”) MDF with 6” bottom horizontal pieces. It took one coat of primer and two coats of white Valspar semigloss. After install, I gave one more coat of paint with a brush to cover 18 gauge nail holes. Very pleased with the ease MDF was to work with. The wife like the brush stokes on the finish and it looks great.
At 2:25 “Voilà!” 😂. I saw it coming and still laughed. Well done Sir!
You could improve your staining results on the pine by using a softwood pre-conditioner. It helps quite a bit with the blotchiness. (If you're stuck with it for whatever reason…)
Aw man what a great video. You answered some of the questions I’ve been asking for so long. This was extremely helpful. Thank you!
You're welcome!
great video! everything is a compromise!
apart from the dust, my only grumble with MDF is how squishy it gets if it gets damp!
Thanks for taking the time to create, edit, and share! :)
you're welcome!
Great video! Thanks for all the effort!
Please tell me that you’ve got someone there who can call an ambulance in case of emergency! If I crawled up on my bench (AND STOOD ON A WEAK ASS BUTT JOINT!!) I would end up in the emergency room. You are a brave man! Glad you made it out of those tests with both legs (as well as your hips, knees, ankles) still in position. For real though, I appreciate your dedication to show us this information.
Regarding flexing, the more plies the more flex resistant the sheet is. I don't like my 18mm sheets (sorry, live in a metric country) to have 9 to 11 plies.
This is so precise 👀 bravo for the detail my good sir lol amazing video. I learned a lot, thank you!
Your videos are great! Thanks Brad!
5 stars for the Mike Tyson's Punch Out references! Loved that game so much 😁🥊🥊
I totally agree on the MDF and dust issue. It's damn near insidious. Drilling is not an issue but sawing and sanding... Mask every time. Saw dust is bad for your lungs but the glue is super bad for your lungs.
Overall this was a good test. But exhaustive but good. There's a lot you can do to protect MDF from moisture. It's a damn shame moisture resistant MDF isn't common or widely available in the US. It is very common in Europe. Hmmm... I wonder why 🤔 Probably because the plywood industry doesn't want it used in cabinetry. Colored MDF is very hard to get too.
I love these comparison videos! I've been watching Barry Lewis's Cheap vs Steep series where he compares the same recipe with the cheapest ingredients vs the most expensive ingredients. Maybe you could do something similar? Cheap glue vs expensive glue, jigsaw blades, etc
With the water test one thing you didnt take into account is that MDF doesnt dry the same way a plywood does, once water gets in it starts to degrade the glue and the entire thing just starts to rot a lot faster than other materials. This isnt really something you can really test in a day when the stuff you are making with these materials are supposed to last years or decades.
Agreed -- the more important quality is ability to dry without deforming or reducing its strength. Plywood is used for sheathing not just for strength (tho mainly) but also because as a permeable vapour barrier it has great drying properties.
@@tldrftw Its the main reason I never use MDF baseboards in bathrooms or foyers, even when clients insist it be used everywhere else.
Very interesting video Brad & I am with you on the MDF! I have watched so many videos where wood joints are tested. However, if you want to do more of these types of videos, you could test the strength of joinery suck as dowels, biscuits, dovetails, etc.... Anyway, Happy Holidays to you and your family!
Thanks, Steve! Best to your family as well
MDF very good for anything that needs to be really flat. Or easily painted. Also very easy to use a router on.
Great video! Would love to see more tests like this but maybe with a more applied angle. Maybe testing weight capacity for different methods for making drawer bottoms? Strength of different types of joinery/fasteners?
Very nice video showing pros and cons for each. I would've been curious about seeing baltic birch added to the testing!!!
That’s weird, I searched this like two days ago. I need to know what to build my work bench out of. Thank you sir!
Check out the Aluminum Carpenter's 8020 workbench. The price is crazy but the design is really cool. 🤣
Watch his other video where he builds the workbench shown in this video
czcams.com/video/H-nUQLp5oi0/video.html
Happy to help!
Thank you for this video. It is very well made and shows an extraordinary amount of detail. Your attention to detail shows in the finished product!
On this subject you should do a long term test with 80-100ish pounds on a shelf and see how much it sags over time... you could do a second set of shelves and spritz with water ever so often to cover all the bases
You have shared useful tips and tutorials. Thanks.
Thanks for this informational video!! Much appreciated!
Glad it was helpful!
That making of MDF in your hands actually had me laugh out loud! :)
The reason why MDF soaks up water but doesn't move up the block is because wood glue is somewhat water resistant. It keeps the water from running up, but it does weaken considerably after drying cause the fibers will change and delaminate, plywoods will survive better after drying because the grain is so large, it could warp but it will still retain a lot of strength over time. Plywood uses some wood glue between each ply but the fibers will drink up water and move up the grain. Something you didn't try is OSB which is kinda a chip blend version of Plywood and MDF. OSB is also cheap and has some of the properties of MDF and Plywood, it's typically considered a lower end material but a good OSB also has potential to be some of the strongest engineered wood material. If you pick up a nice "specialty OSB" like Advantech or Legacy LP from Home Depot, It's an extremely dimensionally stable and water resistant material and holds screws far better than any MDF or Plywood, It's extremely heavy and strong as well.
great review! thanks!
As a fellow Avalanche owner, I recognized that 2nd Gen Avy at 0:27! Great rig, their versatility is second to none. Always a shame they stopped producing them.
I parted with my 2003 Avalanche when I upgraded to a Duramax Silverado to haul a bigger trailer. The Avalanche was comfy but really buff! Still #1 In our favorite urban haulers. Too bad they never offered the Duramax in the 3/4 ton version! Our 1/2 ton model hauled thousands of pounds of woodworking and remodeling materials and tools.
New to your channel and I'm learning a lot! One comment on this test... I did some consulting at a major Pac NW plywood manufacturer, and at an MDF plant, not relating to the actual manufacturing butt to quality control observation. And I was super impressed with their processes. So I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that I don't think all manufactures are of equal quality. Seems obvious, but I have to point it out. Keep up the good work!
It's horses for courses... there will be use cases for each and it really comes down to knowing the properties of each material and the requirements of the item you are crafting. As such, this is a great video for illustrating the properties of these materials!
I use MDF for jigs, sleds, and when building speaker cabinets and subwoofer boxes. Though i did make a pair of 4' tall Transmission line speakers out of Baltic Birch and they came out amazing.
A tip I heard sometime back for painting plywood (and other wood surfaces) was to take a damp (not wet!) sponge over it before you paint, enough that it sticks around for five minutes or so before drying, and let it raise up the grain. Sand that back down and the final finish will appear much smoother because what is *going* to raise up already has. The MDF may have performed well (apparently) on that wet edge test but take it from me, it is worse than maple. It doesn't travel up but it makes the material expand and lose integrity. That makes it obviously distorted and much more susceptible to damage (especially on the bottom corner of a dresser or something after an aquarium incident or bad weather during driving while moving it).
Wonder how OSB compares...
Good test, no big surprises. I like MDF when I build "Shaker style" cabinet doors and drawer fronts for the insert panel. Solid wood for the frame.
Wow did you ever completely cover your subject! 100% of this video is useful. Thanks for doing this review.
You bet!
In a real world extreme damage scenario. I neglected my shop for over a year. During that year unbeknownst to me the roof was severely damaged over my wood storage area. When I went back to the shop about 18 months later My heart broke and I made some observations. I had MDF (3 sheets), Maple plywood (7 sheets), A random piece of cheap pine, and I had maple and hickory lumber (1x8ish) mostly. All of this wood was exposed about the same. Mainly the bottom 3" of edges were exposed to water over and over throughout the year. The 4x8 pieces of MDF were basically a large pile of goo with about half of the MDF remaining. The plywood had about 5 inches at the bottom that was swollen and twisted. The Hickory and maple had about 1/2 an inch at the bottom and about 1/4" edge damage to the edges. So after many years of crying and gastro intestinal distress. I went back and the MDF was a complete pile of goo with about a 3 inch misshapen swollen piece remaining. The plywood was basically the same and so was the lumber. All of my Delta industrial tools require a bit of restoration and a healthy supply of Evaporust. But the plywood is salvageable and so is the lumber.
@ 11:21 He says "I hate dust!"
Me suddenly noticing how immaculately clean his workspace is.
Excellent video Brad!!! I finally got time and I watched the whole thing!!!! We get requests for laser cut door hangers....we are about to think that exterior painted 1/4" MDF is the way to go! I think that will hold up about as good as the ply will.
yeah, I've been hearing about this exterior MDF. I need to check it out
I love that we could clearly see that you are not biased at all by your love loooove for mdf 😂😂😂😂
The water test was super useful for me (as a muralist that paints on board and attaches it to a wall later on) Thanks -
Greetings from South Africa. Really enjoy your channel and all the tips and tricks.
thanks!
I’m a trim carpenter and I can definitely say there are different types or grades of MDF. The MDF baseboards and casing we typically use is junk. Very porous. A small amount of moisture and it swells up huge and molds very fast. It also snaps in half super easy. It’s usually a darker color then the “furniture grade” MDF you’re using here.
Brad, as always, great and informative content! You won me over on the Maple plywood. Agree with you wholeheartedly on the MDF dust! Your shop looks great and you alwasy have interesting tools and gadgets which gives me all kinds of ideas! Keep 'em coming!
That panel cart looked amazing!
awesome testing, would like to see more, thanks! also you can get moisture resistant mdf
I agree, MDF has its place in woodworking but, where weight and flex is a concern it sucks. Car stereo shop installers still use MDF for subwoofer boxes and door speaker installs due to its ability to shape easily, but it weighs a lot and hampers vehicle performance. If you go to shows like Slamology, you’ll see the Pros use multilayer birch, (usually 11-layer Baltic Birch), due to its weight and resistance to flexing. Plus, a lot of higher end furniture is made from Baltic Birch as well. In my bus build I used primarily Baltic Birch, despite its higher cost, due to its strength and weight. On the original build up I used all pine and MDF from HD and my total weight was 23k pounds. After the rebuild with the BB, (and added more cabinets), my total weight dropped to just over 20k.
IMO, paying extra for higher quality plywood, (from a good wood supplier like Woodcraft), is worth the cost as all your projects will both look better and be stronger than anything you get from HD or Lowe’s.
Great video, Brad!
Very interesting comparison.
Like you, I'm not a fan of MDF but you have given me SOME faith in a couple uses for the (evil) fiber product.
NEXT Comparison Video:
Compare strength & longevity of equivalent screws in wood.
Pretty sure i put MDF in my attic for storage space. I didnt know any better but it was nice and smooth which was nice bc it made sliding tubs across it a lot easier
Great video, thank you for doing some in depth comparisons between the 3. Its always fun to see these kind of tests and results. Yea totally agree with you on the MDF, I really loathe making anything out of it thats more than a simple jig becauseof the dust. In my opinion, the only good thing about MDF is that its flat and cheap.
Agree but funny that the only good thing about mdf is exactly what it’s designed for
This was insightful, detailed and fun to watch! I am looking to get a bookshelf made and I couldnt figure out for the life of me if plywood or mdf is better ...this helps make the decision ... I still need to figure.out if a tall narrow bookshelf will hold in flatness or bend..
With MDF I can drill a 5mm hole into the edge (say 40mm deep), tap it M6, and bolt another piece to it, for a rock solid, dissasemble-able joint. Really good for some projects.
omg, i didin't even work with this, but o my so good to watch. made my brain happy, thank you
Love ur vids. Full of infotainments. Keep up the good work. Imma share tis to my social accs
thanks!
Would love to see a MDF specific joint strength comparison. Do tongue and groove or lap joints etc. improve strength? I am particularly interested in seeing different types of screws used, including those made specifically for MDF. I think the results would be very different than those for solid wood or plywood.
Yes! Let's have you do all kinds of tests with MDF!!!
Minor technical quibble: When one board flexes more than another under an identical load, it isn't weaker. It just has lower stiffness, which is calculated with geometry (same in all your test pieces) and elastic modulus. Spring constant. Solid maple has greater elastic modulus than solid pine. Plywood has the lowest of all. That's why it sucks for shelving.
amazing content! subscribed!
Good video bubba, but maybe a revisit on the water penetration test. When allowed to sit on edge in standing water, MDF will start to swell, A lot. Growing two to three times its org thickness. When that happeneds it also destroys the glues and compounds holding all of that saw dust together and it becomes extremely brittle. So much so that you can just break it apart with your hands.
you can save A LOT more money if you just make the whole sheet of MDF yourself. like at 2:21
I can only make small batches at a time unfortunately
In Norway, MDF is primarily used as wall plates for dry rooms. Never seen them used in ceiling/shelves...
One thing I noticed as well for the strength between the two plywoods, since the radiata pine is a higher-ply wood it will be stronger, more layers will commonly increase strength. Something to consider for strength tests
This was really interesting. I would be interested to see, also, each of the samples dunked in water a day later. To see how/if each shrank back to its original shape or if it was permanently swollen.
Well done bro,...very infomative
💪👍
For the radiata pine if you use prestain conditioner it's gives a fairly uniform look. I kind of like the urithane over pine too especially as it ages that glowing yellow look appeals but it takes a few years to get there. I usually if using pine just get southern yellow pine to start and prefer birch plywood for everything else
That panel cart is slick!
yeah, love it!
What you are calling Maple is actually Poplar core right? With a maple veneer. Would have been better to compare maple on a birch core for some real contrast.
I have found if you use Shellac on MDF, it makes for a very nice surface. Worked well on my workbench and made it heavy!
Thanks for the video. However, what you referred to as the strength test is actually the elasticity test. That is how much a beam deflects under a certain load (and you test it for geometrically identical beams but with different materials).
Strength test, on the other hand, is when you increase the load until the beam fails (which has nothing to do with the elasticity). This way you can determine whether a beam is STRONG enough to bear a certain load or not.
Great video and demonstration, love it 💚💯🔥
Where I live you can buy Medite (MDF V313). It's MDF that is moisture resistant. It's not waterproof of course, but while It's a bit pricier then regular MDF for a lot of applications (like using it in a damp room, it's great. And it's still way cheaper than plywood.
In my experience, plywood handles weather and moisture reasonably well, while MDF rots out very quickly. Direct weather or direct dirt contact makes this difference particularly obvious. MDF doesn't last long if it gets wet, it turns back to sawdust if you leave it in mud. While plywood mostly retains it's dimensions and also doesn't seem to rot too quickly, much slower than solid wood, although a couple coats of danish oil or any penetrating oil will definitely help slow down the rot. I'd only consider MDF for projects that are perfectly dry.
As mentioned before, MDF is sagging over time which is a real big issue. It doesn't feeel like working with wood and when/if you smell it you're probably on the way of getting lung issues. When it comes to painting it's all fine on the flat large surface areas but horrible on the edges. Thanks for a very good video!
After getting wet MDF will be permanently deformed and weaker. Plywood will (usually) dry out and be as good as before. That's why plywood is preferred to MDF for wet exposure situations.
I don't understand why this wasn't discussed. It was obvious from what we could see, that the mdf had swelled up. This does not go back to how it was before. Plywood doesn't deform permanently from water exposure in my experience.
Agreed. This test was more about short term exposure and how much it pulled the water in vs. it's long term effects.
You can get moisture resistant MDF. Of course, the cost is more
Great test
I like the Radiata Pine it's cheap for shop furniture and it holds up over time so i can use hard woods in the house.
great for shop stuff
I need one of those trolleys at the start!
When you said that the MDF was 88lbs (40kg), I scoffed a bit as I normally just man handle them off the ute and into the shed. But sure as sh!t I had a look at the specs on my local hardware and it is indeed 38.9kg 😮. I suppose it doesn't feel as heavy as it's over a large area and not in a clump like 4 bags of concrete would be.
Just a note - MDF performs much better in water applications if it's coated first in either a clear or outdoor primer than no coat at all. There's a lot of folks that make outdoor Christmas decorations out of it and surprisingly holds up well to the outside elements in this case.
Price and stability hands down is the main reason the MDF is used. Most shop fitting is done with MDF, certainly here in the UK.
Am I the only one here that’s glad your knees and ankles held up? Because I am.
Awesome video Brad!
Great video so glade you did this test before I started making a bunch of cabinets. Wanted to ask you what that tilt cart was you used to get the sheets out of your truck. I need one of them asap. Keep the advice coming love them. So what would you use even though you hate DUST to make your cabinets knowing what you know after your test. TY
They also make Ultra Lite a lighter less dense MDF and a water resistant green MDF. Our shop uses the water resistant one in door panels for kitchens baths or anywhere where excessive moisture would be present. Overall it’s a good material when used for the right applications although I personally don’t like it and have been woodworking for 50 years.
Be interesting to see how the three impact a saw blade's life span. I'd guess the mdf will mess up a circular saw blade in short order due to whatever glue/resin/mess is used in it's manufacturing.
But mdf doesn't have knots in it. Mdf is just sawdust and wood glue.