Could any 40K Factions be REMOVED from the Game? Every Army's Chance Discussed
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- Let's talk about the possibility of removing armies from Warhammer 40K - GW have done it in the past, is there any chance of more in the future?
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0:00 Intro
0:43 Small Disclaimer
1:55 Faction Removal in 40K
3:18 Some PRevious Codexes Removed
5:59 Staple 40K Factions
8:32 Sisters and Admech
9:39 Deity Chaos Legions
11:08 Major Divergent Chapters
13:20 Adeptus Custodes
14:50 Leagues of Votann
16:11 Drukhari
17:59 Grey Knights
19:30 Black Templars
21:26 Genestealer Cults
24:05 Chaos Daemons
26:42 Imperial and Chaos Knights
30:39 Deathwatch
34:16 Outro - Hry
Agent of Imperium, Deathwatch and Grey Knights can be mixed into grand Inquisition faction.
Though what to do with non-inquisition kits, such as Arbites, Imp Navy and RT kill teams plus assassins?
@@Jfk2MrI think GW made the right call making those primarily killteam releases that you can choose to take into a 40k game if you really want, they're very specific niche things, probably not worth making a codex for in the first place, killteam is the best place for them to exist
@@Jfk2Mr Both Assassins and Arbites make sense as Inquisitorial assets. RT and Navy not so much. Maybe roll them in with the Guard?
@@Jfk2MrI say you combine the Arbites and stuff with Imperial Knights as sort of bodyguards / chaperones for the big boys.
@@Jfk2Mr Assassins have their own place in Imperium team; RT could be special hq to give benefits of dealing with xenos enemies; Imperial Navy and Arbites while have their own unique position in kill team they could be conditional battleline for thematic inquisition army
On topic of Deathwatch being not much of a grand army but just small organized squads of killteams, it kind of baffles me how there hasnt been an official Killteam Deathwatch Kit released yet. There exist rules for Deathwatch Veterans as a Kill Team, but it is very barebones and includes potential wargear choices not present in the Deathwatch Veteran KIt (such as Pistols).
Keyword being yet, though they kind of don’t need one. Both the current space marine kill teams are flexible enough to get the flavor in, you just need to give them their shiny shoulder pauldrons
Yeah, isn't the game Kill Team literally NAMED AFTER the Deathwatch? You'd think they would be the headliners ffs
Ikr, they must be picking these kits by dartboard. But I love how a lot of the kits just flesh out the world more.
Killteam actually predates the concept of deathwatch by several years.@@TheCommunistColin
@@TheCommunistColin The term kill team was used for non deathwatch things back into 90s. Long before there was an official list for the watch
Codex Armageddon, and the last chancers novel Kill Team being two good examples.
When I first heard there would be a Knight Codex coming, I envisaged a small number of knights supported by household infantry and armour. More like a Medieval army.
I used to play it that way when I was able to ally things.
yeah same I kinda expected they would get chaff infantry and some armour. I didn't expect full knight armies, which makes things hard to balance
If they expanded it to include cavalrymen on horse back. Human knights with power swords and axes as melee units. And 40K style fusiliers from AoS but with plasma guns I could sell every other one of my armies and play that forever.
yhea same would be more interesting then if you did not bring all your anty tank you are not doing anything against them
That would be so much better.
Sounds fun
I miss the unique Inquisition ordo books. As the Inquisition is so removed from other groups and so powerful within the Imperium, it feels weird that they are relegated to a Guard sub-option.
I would love a new daemon hunter book even if that meant the ordo malleus and grey knights get joined into a single codex, I may think that because I love chaos gate daemonhunters, and wish there were new customisable inquisitors, would make narrative play with grey knights very interesting
@@sebastianyoungit used to be that exact thing years ago, the codex was even called daemonhunters. I like your idea!
They're not a guard only option currently, they can be taken as allies by any imperium army, thought I kinda wish they'd make their rules a lot better and maybe also give us a highly customizable inquisitor kit
@@sebastianyoung I'd like a Inquisition army book where you could choose between the three major ordo and the minoris, and if you choose Malleus, ally a 25% of your forces from the grey knights, I think could add some fluff to the lists coming from it, specially if they add rhinos and land raiders for the inquisitors, something they lost recently
@@thelasteinherjar6115 yeah i know that was what i was referring to it was a much better system and allowed for more interesting armies having both inquisitorial models and grey knights
For context both the Tau and Dark Eldar were the big releases for 3rd Edition, one being a completely new faction (Tau) and the other being in the starter box.
In the 20+ years since however the Tau have had updates to all their kits to add options and to phase out white metal (anyone else remember Broadsides with weak ankles), the Dark Eldar on the other hand seem to have fallen by the wayside both in lore and model range with limited updates.
Its what happens when the DE faction rules were utter crap for 3 whole editions and they had only one viable competitive build, so GW decided the faction wasn't generating enough interest and didn't put much focus on it compared to other factions......
This already poor luck was then combined with a release schedule so bad that when their new codex finally dropped in 5th edition, only half the new unit range came out at the same time, and it took until the next edition for some of the missing models to finally be released, but then in the next codex release in 7th half the newer and interesting characters introduced in 5th ed codex are then dropped without ever getting official models because in the interim, GW lost part of a copyright lawsuit and it got ruled that anything GW didn't already have a model for at time of release could have the model/image copyright sniped by another group if they managed to make and produce it first. RIP Lady Malys, Duke Sliscus, Kheradruakh and Baron Sathonyx........
Not really all that much GW could do for them though - the entire range is plastic now so they don't have pressing need for updates. Maybe they'll finally drop that new Vect model they've been teasing at for nearly a decade now, and perhaps bring back the Mandrakes in plastic form (maybe even do several units for a proper subfaction) since they stopped selling those models a while ago.
We are ready for an "Ordos Imperialis" faction that would combine a lot of these existing models. Overview:
-Imperium models only. Inherits all "Agents of the Imperium" models. Thematically based on the Inquisition.
-Combines Ordo Xenos (Deathwatch), Ordo Malleus (Grey Knights), Ordo Hereticus (Witch Hunters) into one combined army.
-Can use some adjunct Imperial guard models, similar to GSC.
-This army wouldn't come out until the END of 10th edition, or maybe 11th edition.
I think it would be a good idea to go the AoS route and make the chaos gods into their own factions with worshipers. So khorne daemons are in the same book as world eaters, thousand sons and Tzeentch etc
I would be willing to bet they go that route for 11th once EC are released this edition
CSM, Chaos Mortals (Traitors normal humans maybe some of the csm HQs like Dark apostle or MoP), "Dark Mech" with an Admech equivalent + chaos knights under one banner. Then have daemons and god specific legions in a book for each god.
As a Daemon player, please don't. If I wanted to play space marines, there are 11 codexes I can pick. I want to play cosmic horror monsters :(
Sounds awful!
Sincerely, a daemons player
This applies to a few factions in 40k. Custodes should just be a part of Agents of the Imperium, HQ should just be a part of Eldar, etc etc. GW just needs to subfaction rules as a part of larger factions.
As someone who played Renegades and Heretics, and then briefly started harlequins, I'm going to start collecting space marines, that way we can get them out the game as well :P
Nervously sweating while packing my harlequins away as I watch my other armies dangerously top of the polls (knights, Drukhari, daemons)
Your sacrifice will not be in vain
I could see some sort of consolidated Inquisition or Agents of the Imperium army being formed. Could grab inquisition, grey knights, deathwatch, imperial knights, assassins, etc and roll them all into a cohesive faction. Maybe even the rogue traders and some of the other oddball kits like the navy breachers.
Sisters used to be tied to the inquisition too, as the "muscle" of the Ordo Hereticus as well as the Ecclesiarch.
I have no imperial army, but when I do, Agents is my first choice. Weird Inquisitorial gang. Just cooler than most Imperium.
My main faction is Chaos Knights but I can see them being much more effective in the tabletop game as an allied faction available to CSM and Daemons. I hate that our most effective and competitive list is just 13 war dogs w/ daemon allies; I want to use the big knights but using more than 2 of them in a list is just losing the game with extra steps. My second faction is Sisters of Battle and I would quit 40k if they were removed as a faction.
Just add them into a dark mechanicum style army and reward them for running pure knights with unique rules for doing so.
I mean, for most Chaos Knights after a few years with current molds; I would combine the codex and use upgrade sprues for them. Like here are spikes and some unique peices is both more profitable and easier to fulfill demand.
@@keyanklupacs6333 Yeah, I would probably fold them into Dark Mechanicum if they ever get to be a faction. Then again, I'd also fold Imperial Knights into AdMech too.
I would be really sad if they removed chaos knights
to me, it is the complete opposite. I love my chaos knights, I loved them when starting in 9th, and I am so glad that at least for now they kept their flavor in 10th.
Wardogs are my ABSOLUTE favorite model in the entire game they look SO amazing, and I am SO happy they made the stalker a character, really showing me that GW WANTS us to be able to play only wardogs. if you want to play big knights play Imperials, they are diffrent and I like love that ck can just play wardogs and have more than 2 diffrent types as well.
I think there is a very high chance that once the Dark Mechanicus gets rolled out Knights will slowly start to become part of the AdMech and DarkMech factions.
That's my hope too along with "Cults of Chaos" to house Belekor, non-marine chaos mortals and mixed daemon armies along with god specific daemons to sit alongside their god specific legions so stuff like tzeentch daemons benefits from t-sons robust magic rules.
Same here. But i also think the 4 big chaos factions should be restricted to their god ONLY. i hate playing against a deathguard army that has shalaxi helbane because she is amazing against vehicles.
It should be:
The book of Nurgle, all nurgle daemons + deathguard;
The book of Tzentch, all tzentch daemons + thousand sons;
The book of Khorne, all World Eaters + Korne daemons;
The book of Slaanesh, all Emperors Children + Slaanesh daemons;
The Undivided book of Chaos, Black Legion + Bel'akor and friends;
The Dark Mechanicum with ALL daemon engines + corrupted mechanicum.
I do think they should maybe split undivided into a more marine focused army and a more non-marine mortal focused book. So Undivided would break down into three pillars, Chaos Space Marines, "Cults of Chaos" and Dark Mech@@klassensj2Cults of Chaos would also probably encompass more of the intermixed daemon forces too
@@klassensj2 You had me until the Dark Mechanicum. Specific armies should still be able to field their specific daemon engines as part of their army, but Chaos Knights would be fine under that rule.
@@klassensj2 You cant run Shalaxi with Death Guard though....
This might be a hot take, but I believe that space marines should be ONE book with everything included, even if it does become a tome, no other faction besides chaos has multiple books, and I'd be in favor of both getting amalgamated honestly...Also, while I would be sad to see my beloved Deathwatch go away, I'd love to see some sort of inquisition dedicated book with DW integrated into it, as well as rogue traders...Sounds like fun times.
I agree that the loyalist marines should all be one codex with the exception of Grey Knights. But the monogod CSM factions are too fundamentally different to be stuck with the same army rules and such. For example, WE can't take psykers, but TS is defined by psykers.
@@jeffreymonsell659 You may be right, but you can't smoosh the loyalists togeather and not do it to chaos
@intense_pickle That's true, there'd be too much backlash. Though maybe if they mashed Daemons into their respective monogod CSM factions that might placate the loyalist players.
But none of this is likely to happen anyway unless marine sales drop a lot.
@@jeffreymonsell659 This is 40k...No one will ever be placated...
I would lose everything that makes me love world eaters if that were the case.
My least favorite solution for knights is to make them into a single codex. I would prefer them being rolled in as part of another codex, like mechanicus or dark mech or daemonkin or something
Deathwatch is my main faction so I'd be sad to see it go, but I really think taking the "Agents of the Imperium" route would be 100% possible and might even be beneficial, saying "hey, I'm taking 25% of my list as Space Marines, but instead of bringing a hellblaster squad i'm bringing a Fortis Kill Team, it's more exepensive but allows me to take more than just plasma eradicators in my very limited roster" and would allow Agents to be their own thing rather than just a post-it note added to another army
Maybe they ought to merge all the inquisition chambers militant into one big inquisition codex, with datasheets for running a few basic battle sister squads for the ordo hereticus, all primarily aimed at being run as allied forces by other imperial forces.
And then after each battle your entire army gets nuked by the grey knights strike cruiser in orbit.
I hope once emperor's children come out they roll nurgle daemons together with death guard, khorne daemons with world eaters, etc
It would be nice to put the relevant daemons in the cult marines codexs, even if they kept the daemon codex as a separate book.
It’ll never happen but it would be good for the customer
This makes way more sense and is more old school than pure demon armies. CSM and demons are like PB&J.
When I was doing the survey, I was thinking more in terms of consolidating. It feels like Drukhari might become part of the Aeldari codex, same with genestealers and tyranids
Please no (Drukhari player)
I remember back in the 3rd edition when a single Chaos codex encompassed all five factions of CSMs AND demons. Single page of rules for each legion. GW's desire to sell us multiple codex's is the problem.
Know why Deathwatch are so niche? Its because every model cries out for customization and there are three distinct things to paint on every single model: the silver arm, the black armor and the chapter shoulder pauldron. There's no 'just base paint, layer and highlight and done'. We have to do that three different times per model!
That being said, the Deathwatch are a connoisseur's army for people who buy too many space marines.
I disagree. It takes me much longer to paint Space Wolves than Deathwatch.
But that's pretty much what base paint, layers and highlights are... 😅 Just because you gotta open a different colored paint pot doesn't really make the paint job any different. Other than DW models are usually much faster and easier to paint.
I could see an "Inquisition" army with rules for allying in Deathwatch, Grey Knights and Sisters units. Maybe guard and knights too.
This is what I want.
Hereticus is sisters, maleus is Grey knights and xenos is death watch.
Start supporting Drukhari more GW 😢
Theyre so awesome, and idc if they're not as good in 10th, just play Ynnari. Its hard to find models for them these days, Mandrakes are damn near extint
I think Dark Elves really need to become the main antagonist for the 11th edition and be the second army in the starter box.
I'm a big fan of those bad Elves, but as my main is Craftworlds, I'm so pleased Ynarri exist so I can mix both. I'd prefer a proper mix of Corsairs, but here we are.
As a Knights main, I would LOVE to see questor Mechanicus get rolled into AdMech, maybe as an optional detachment? I love the idea of massive war machines with Skitarii escorts.
Seems to me that we could just have a combined AdMech/IK/Titans codex that could freely ally with other Imperium codices and then re-introduce the Secutarii. Would solve all sorts of problems for those factions imo. Could even do the same thing for Chaos if they ever decide to do Dark Mechanicus.
I'm the opposite. Only play knights, and I love the aesthetic and play, not really drawn to any other army. On the flip side, not interested in Ad Mech in the least. So I'd hate this.
@@apollyon23456 I figure if we had some sort of combined codex with Knights and AdMech, it could be written in such a way that it would allow you to still play the way you wanted - after all, Eldar players can still play Harlequins in a "pure" form somewhat, so I don't see why it couldn't be the same for AM/IK.
@thetherapist53 possibly, but would they then have as many detachments when said codex appeared? I think they'd just have a "knight like" detachment, likely just noble lance, and one less unique Ad Mech one. I don't see anybody being made happy by that.
@@apollyon23456 I guess it would depend upon what sort of ideas they have planned for detachments for IK. I don't think anyone in AdMech would be disappointed to see Data-Psalm or Cybernetica detachments removed or reworked in such a way that could include IK, given that those detachments are just flat-out terrible. It would have to be a complete re-thinking of the two armies into one and their corresponding indices/codices, not just a merging.
Almost guarrenteed Harlequins get a detachment but it still sucks they fucked over my clowns.
On the Craftworlds side of the fence, I can now field my favourite Eldar model the Solitaire without having to add a whole other detachment. Souping in a few Craftworlds models could fill in the gaps until the Quin's get their own detachment rules 🙂.
Also a Harlequins player here, so I feel for you, dude 😪
I'm just trying to figure out if it's a production issue with GW: I'm not a fan of so many hardback books being released. If those are an issue, maybe smaller factions (like Harlequins) could get their own sub-faction rules via White Dwarf magazine?
Already feels bad that Quins went from multiple Masques in 8th, 3 Saedath in 9th (the point that I feel could have been comfortably maintained, if rolled into the Aeldari Codex) and now 1 single Detachment in 10th Edition (if we're lucky).
Definitely feels like they're turning the screw on us as a faction 😡
I'd prefer a unified inquisition faction again for DW and GK with some stormtroopers.
They could roll Deathwatch, Greyknights, Sisters of Battle, and the Inquisition into one codex and fix a lot of the shortcomings of the individual factions, but I think they'd piss off a lot of players (especially Sisters and Grey Knights players who are used to having their own standalone faction).
Took me like 10 minutes to realize you meant deathwatch. I kept thinking, "There's no fucking way this guy means Deathwing..." 😂
From a lore standpoint throwing sisters in there wouldn't make much sense as they are a part of the ecclesiarchy and not the inquisition
@@Alex-mw1uu
I think Sisters should be a stand alone, but lore wise certain inquisitors often do have a few sisters under their direction since their faith is so strong it does prove useful when dealing with Daemons.
More of like a small retinue.
@@dtheraider4336 I think that falls under the 'acolyte' entry for inquisitorial henchman. They make it purposefully vague to allow a bit of creative freedom. (All their weapons are 'acolyte firearm' and 'acolyte melee')
As a GSC lover, I can say that the appeal is small but extremely dedicated. They’re like a hardcore band that people have either never heard of, or devote their life to.
My best games of 40k have been with my GSC army. So many wild momentum shifts. They're all about shenanigans. Had some great games with chaos knights too. I don't like vids like this because i feel like it discourages people from getting into some really fun factions.
Luckily they revealed the codex drop summer time. We at least get 10th boys
And with them going so hard with tyranid as in 10th GSC allow a little bit of lore development outside of the tabletop. GW definitely have caught on to the combined media approach to universe matters. The whole lion returning is a great example of what should be done.
As a Tyranid enjoyer I don't fully get it but I appreciate the in-universe efforts
People don't know GSC?
To me they seem really weird, and I don't personally get the interest, but I 100% respect your choices. I think they should be able to sub into each other easily. It'd be a great rule to be able to kill your own GSC to buff your Nids. Omm nom nom
For Imperial Knights, most of the datasheets can be consolidated into a primary and/or secondary weapon wargear choice; this would then lean towards making them just an allied unit rather than a full army.
Agreed that GSC are unlikely to get many new kits, but I think GW can be much smarter about it TBH. GSC should get rules support for necromunda kits. No centrepiece model? Give us rules for the ridgehauler. Give rules for Ambots while you're at it. Could even release a GSC upgrade sprue for necromunda kits if GW need to make some extra money from it.
The new Necromunda supplement fits into your idea really well.
Genestealers have the rules for Necromunda...
@@marcusflutist1230 I want necromunda to have rules for Genestealers
The objectively correct answer is any faction I collect. Im almost three for three so far. Got into Fantasy with Chaos Dwarfs. They get axed. Swing over to Tomb Kings. Axed again alongside the entire game. Pick up Dark Eldar inbetween all that. Now theyre on life support with a dwindling roster.
If it's any consolation, I really do not see them dropping the Drukhari any time soon. They have been an integral faction for so long. Niche, sure, not highly popular either, but GW should be well aware that they're an important part of the lore, and that they have tons of fans on the tabletop as well.
Stuff like this is one of the many reasons I'll never get into Warhammer.
If I could I'd get a Bretonnia roster and pay a lot of money... if they didn't ask for $60 for 6 friggin plastic toys which I then need to spend another $30 to paint, another $30 to get the rules for, another $30 for terrain, and then have to buy even more plastic toys just to complete a damn army.
Then there's the fact that if you're not space marines or chaos you get a middle finger dildo shoved down your throat if you're a 40K fan because they gotta sell space marines.
Then if course there's the fanbase who acts like 40K is OP when it's really mid lvl at best and is on the same scale as the legends galactic empire (who's arguably stronger). But dear God if they won't shout some nonesense like "one space marine could kill the entire Q Continuum"
And then if you WERE to get into it something like this could happen where they scrap the whole thing altogether.
@@maxmagnus377I've dealt with this twice before and the Dark Eldar are already somewhere along GW's self-perpetuating cycle to oblivion.
Basically, a faction sees a slump in sales, so GW proceeds to ignore them. Said factions get less and less stuff, what stuff they do have gets harder to get, and their rules degrade and become broken or unfun. This, in turn, results in a larger slump in sales, which in turn, prompts GW to continue ignoring the factions.
I'd say the DE are at about the midway point of this process. They currently have THE worst ruleset in the current edition, they're one of the smaller factions in the game, and a third of that already small roster is just outright impossible to purchase for your average consumer.
I would actually like my deathwatch army becoming an agents of the imperium army. It would be on flavor and fleshing out the agents would be pretty cool.
It would make your list better, IMO. An Inquisitor leader, some Navy or Arbites for objectives, more choices with flavour intact.
I could see Death Watch, Grey Knights, Imperial Knights and inquisitors and all thebother random imperium being consolidated into an "allies of the imperium" codex
The deathwatch, inquisition forces and greet knights could be included in a single army book with the assassins as the inquisition codex.
I'll try and keep this as brief as possible, but here's how I could see GW dealing with this going forward:
All "main" codex's fall under individual "races" (Human, Trans-human, Chaos, Mech/Chaos Mech, etc.)
Each of those "mains" would be laid out with core rules for the game, plus one-page-rules(but slightly larger, maybe 2-3x per faction) 60-ish pages (not much lore or pictures).
Each individual faction would then ALSO have their own codex(again, one page rules kind of thing but 40k style) 60-ish pages but with specific rules for your faction (Imp. Fists, Blood Angels, Ultra Marines, Custodes, etc) and there would be lore and pictures in your faction's "codex".
Now, this would allow GW to sell "space marines" as a generic kit (might have to make them interchangable with all "main" codex factions) and then they could sell upgrade sprues for each individual faction.
Obviously, this doesn't work overly well with all the various factions, but there are a few factions that can absolutely be folded under their "parent" faction.
So, essentially, you would buy the first "codex" and it would give you all the rules to play the game and the base way to build your "Space Marine" army (one-page-rules kinda thing). You would then buy the 2nd "codex" for your specific army and it gives you more granular rules for the specific faction. More detachments, characters, vehicles, stratagems, lore, photos, etc.
This could help GW keep the base models in stock and not have to make 500 different factions of almost identical Marines that PLAY differently. This would also help to reinvigorate the "hobby" side of 40k because you have to do some "conversions"/modifications. Would potentially make it far easier for a new player to get in to the game as well? This might even make it easier to build YOUR army as you will have a ton of options. (more granularity?)
Again, you have to look at OPR and then expand it from there in 40k style.
This idea is not without it's problems, but I think it could be a step in the right direction allowing GW to produce the more "niche" things with more regularity as they don't have to double/triple produce similar items.
BTW, this is all written by someone who collects Grey Knights lol. But I do think GK could easily fall under the "trans-human" codex with their own codex to give the army the GK flair. Same as Death Watch, or any other Marine faction.
Iam actually all for them folding in factions in other codexes, eg all Spacemarine variants in 1 dex and Chaos Spacemarine variants in 1 dex. Both versions of Knights in a single dex. And by that token, have a traitor guard detachment option for the Imperial guard/Astra Militarum.
I think GW can give so much more by doing that, and everyone would get their updated army faster.
There needs to be an Inquisition codex. You pick one of the three Ordos when you build your army. You get GK, DW, or SOB allies up to 50% of your points who meaningfully interact with your Detachment rules. You have generic Agent units that any Ordo can take, including Scions and generic Guard sheets. Each Ordo gets 2-3 detachments. Done. And GK, SOB, and DW can keep their own codices. That way, everyone is happy. Basically, the Inquisition codex would equate to CSM "undivided" with the specialty armies as your pure Death Guard etc.
As someone who just started their Deathwatch army, I feel a bit biased, but I hope they keep supporting them. I don't need a full codex, but a Detachment and Kill Teams staying in the main SM codex would be nice.
The way I see it, you "could" take a faction like Grey Knights and make them into an "Inquisitor Daemon Hunters" army, with access to Inquisitors(obviously) and "standard" troops(Inquisitorial Stormtroopers). Similar to what they were in the past when they were first introduced. This would allow a broader selection of "utility"-units, like cheap infantry and unique abilities.
But the thing is, you can, more or less, already do that through the Agents of the Imperium list, even if you are limited to only a few picks based on army size.
So if they decide to make "Codex Daemon Hunters(Grey Knights and extras)", "Codex Xenos Hunters(Deathwatch and extras)" and "Codex Witch Hunters(Sisters of Battle and extras)", then they also have to figure out what they intend to do with "Agents of the Imperium".
Otherwise, we still have the same amount of armies, just rebranded, with Agents of the Imperium ending up in a weird spot.
I hope Druhkari dont get scrapped.
As someone with 1500pts of deathwatch(including blackstars, tanks & bikes), I'm worried about a reinterpretation where I'm limited to only take one actual DW unit in an army if they get foldered into some larger force.
You can't just folder everything into the space marines book because then you'd have a 500 page codex, need to have it separate somewhere.
Good thing you made a disclaimer... Grey Knight hardly get any love these days, and I'm worried I wasted all my WH40K time on them only to be useless....
You shouldn't play or collect warhammer over "use". It kills the game as a hobby as it'd cause more stress. My suggestion is to just do what you enjoy.
Gw isnt Mecha Stalin, They cant stop you.
Agree, never feel it's a waste. Use older codex or earlier editions. Man I have played some functions that sucked for years, but I kept going with them.
Combine space marines into two factions, divergent and compliant. Give each chapter 2-3 named characters and one unique mini. Meaning there would be only 2 space marine codexs. Id do something similar with the chaos Marines. Combine them into one codex and have each god get 2 unique units and 3-4 named characters. Undivided exists but they only get named characters that are unique
I wouldn't remove any army, but I might roll some of them into the same book together. Some examples would be (Chaos) Knights, Grey Knights, other Inquisition forces.
As a Deathwatch player, we can't we go back to how 4th ED Imperium Codices worked but copy it for all the races. Build your own chapter/regiment with template examples was the most fun I had playing.
I feel Deathwatch, and Grey Knights should be under a inquisition army. Their are some editions which are already excessive and while I love DW I prefer they be integrated with other agents of the throne like Rogue Traders, Arbites, and Inquisiton.
Otherwise Harelquins should just be Inquisiton agents but for Eldari like Fabius and Vashtor being agents of chaos and the agents of the throne units.
In 8th my soup of choice was Grey Knights/Deathwatch with Sisters added at the end. I’d LOVE the Inquisition to be combined like that officially
Harlequins basically are that now, it's not an army
It would make so much sense for Imperial armies to be able to run a DW kill team in a Xenos-heavy meta or a Grey Knights squad in a Chaos-heavy meta the way you can soup Inquisition units or Freeblades.
As someone who plays Chaos Knights i wouldn't mind seeing both knight codexs go away.
I fully agree with the fact that deathwatch is most likely to get dropped. But i really hope they don't get dropped or at least they get an interesting kind of way to include them in a space marine armies or Imperial armies in general, as an Agents of Imperium type of vibe
As I commented, that Knights could go away and be just allies some people were not happy at all...poll says otherwise though 😊
Deathwatch, Grey Knights, Custodes. Grey Knights used to only come out to fight demons it's flat out weird to see them deal with Orks. And Custodes as the Emeperor's personal bodyguard are just.. weird out there.
I’d like to believe that GSC has a small but die hard set of fans in certainly one of them
tbh I think it would be cool to roll in the chaos armies into one, CSM/Daemons/Knights make daemonkin books instead. That way you get more flexibility and less ally skews. Yes I play all those chaos factions
I think its more likely to roll daemons into chaos allies. Create dark mech roll chaos knights into that. Create "Cults of Chaos" and roll daemons and some of the CSM units like Master of Possession and Dark Apostles into that. So you'd have 3 main pillars of Dark Mech, CSM, and Chaos Cults all of which able to summon daemons and then a book of nurgle, khorne, tzeentch and slannesh.
I'd love to see a return of the daemonkin armies, though I think they would replace the cult marine armies and not the chaos Marines in general.
Glory to the gods. It'd be neat to be able to run a detachment that is just all the Chaos datasheets under one umbrella.
When I got into this hobby I made sure that the money I spent wouldn’t be a waste and chose Tyranids as my first and Sisters as my second. I genuinely don’t see them taking any specific faction away for a long while though.
any astra militarum that's not cadia : i'm in danger
in loving memory of krieg engineers,krieg marshall and many others
I would like to play an unbranded guard army as well.
Oh no, the death corps of cringe fanboys
@@CMTechnica i was just listing some of the models that got terminated.go ahead and cry more.also,it's not just krieg that it's getting wiped out from the game.when was the last time you've seen valhallan ice warriors in a gw store ?
Harlequins were my first army, started them not long after the launch of 9th edition, very sad to see the direction they are going.
I have a bit of hope that they at least get decent rules when the Aeldari codex comes out but the hope of a new unit or new model is super slim.
I quite like the Genestealer cults just brutal costing especially living in Australia. I would actually argue that combining at least the Grey Knights and Deathwatch under an Inquisition book would be a great way to revamp both ranges.
My faction already got removed. Rip glorious clown bois
Deathwatch would be my guess to go as a full army. They are directly contrary to GW's new simplified army lists being able to take stupid stuff like bikes in a squad of infantry with a whole rook of weird weapons. I could see them being rolled back into an agents of the Imperium / Inquisition codex.
Honestly Knights could easily be one single faction with Despachments or even be part of Imperial Guard/Space Marines/ Chaos Spacemarines/ Chaos Demons.
I can see World Eaters players voting to have them removed and rolled back into CSM, given that way they'd have an unit list that isn't quite so comically lackluster.
World eaters undivided?
@@hellglaser3450 Call it whatever, I just want Fast Attack back.
Let's just field three Juggerlords and an Invocatus in 500 point games until GW finally gets the message.
@@overlordmarkus No way then they'll just nerf them and we'll have both a tiny roaster and a really bad one.
I think this is always a tricky one to do via poll, as a lot of the results smack of "I don't like this army, I wish they weren't a thing any more"
Certain factions GW have shot themselves in the foot with a bit, anecdotally I know quite a few people who are raring to collect Aeldari - as soon as they're not using 20 year old models etc. I've seen the same, but a lesser extent, with a few people wanting to collect Orks.
Similarly one of my favourite factions from theme and aesthetic is GSC, but I'm just not a fan of the horde army playstyle, combined with how they're one of the more expensive armies to collect, so I've not brought in - but I'd be very sad to see them go. (there's been some talk of a combat patrol league/tournament type thing at my FLGS - so could be a way to play them!). Or as soon as Grey Knights get a "TrueScale" refresh (definitely shouldn't be Primaris though) - then I'll be all over that as another new army for the collection xD
I could see Knights, both Imperial and Chaos, being relegated to allies in a similar way to Imperial Agents. As factions they naturally make skew lists, as their focus is huge warmachines.
You do have to wonder if some people voted for Eldari because they're good and they're sick of losing to them.
Tbh, i wouldn't be surprised if the 'Redacted' cldex is 'Imperial Agents and Deathwatch' get merged with that.
Combining multiple books into single factions is the way to go.
The Skitarii/Mechanicus codexes of 7th edition were just two half-codexes . When I first tried to start an army and went with their starter box, just to find out I was expected to buy two books I thought ooooooh this is a cash grab, and quit then and there. So glad they consolidated that, but the experience put me off of mechanicus for good. I’m glad I got back into the hobby though
We need More! Factions!
-fish space people
-commi Nazi Bear people
-the 5 finger clan
-Gwar
-& the lizard men with light sabers!
I think Drukhari really need to become the main antagonist for the 11th edition and be the second army in the starter box.
I see three things that GW could do:
1) Remove the Chaos Daemons codex. After getting Emperor's Children, GW could have the same system as in AoS (Emperor's Children + Slaanesh Daemons as one army etc.). Undivided entities like Be'lakor could be part of the Chaos Space Marines codex.
2) If we really get the Agents of Imperium army, Deathwatch and Grey Knights could be part of this faction.
3) Perhaps merging Adeptus Mechanicus and Imperial Knights into one big army. The same goes for Dark Mechanicum(after we will get this army) and Chaos Knights.
I wouldn't mind seeing a big consolidation on the imperium side that turns Agents of the Imperium, Gray Knights, Stompy Knights, Custodes, and a new line of inquisition models into a single standalone Agents of the Imperium faction that can be souped in with other Imperium armies.
My first thought was Knights getting removed as Imperial and Chaos flavors but instead putting them under a singular Codex: Knights Questing with subfactions being based around Imperium and Chaos varieties.
i would merge up some books to "slim" numbers but in the bigger book format like how HH uses, and have the addional ways of building armys in them. so for me it would look like:
space marines (includeing all divergent chapters except deathwatch and grey knights)
imperial guard
mechanicus (and knights)
agents of the imperium (inqusition, assassins, GK, DW, sisters of battle, custodies, sisters of silence, rogue traders, imperial navy, arbities)
Chaos marines (includeing the god specific ones) + chaos guard
chaos operatives (deamons, knights, dark mechanicum and other loose agents/squads)
aldari (craftworlds, harlaquins, corcears, drukari, yened)
tyranids (hive fleets and genestealer cults, rues for inducted guard forces)
tau empire (tau, kroot, vespid)
leagues of votan (includes rules for allying with imperial or tau)
necrons
orks
There is no way that the people that voted to drop sisters aren't just people that either really dislike the faction because you know exactly why they dislike the faction, or people that have lost to them recently and think they're OP.
Personally, I find the idea of power armoured pyromaniac Nuns highly entertaining. I have visions of the leader of a Chaos cult saying something like " Right, we shall be facing the Adepta Sororitas. What ever you do, DON'T let them take you alive. Why ? Because they'll spend a day or two praying at you before slowly burning you to death on a bonfire. That's why ! "
The reason why I choose knights as the main faction is because I have watched excellent works such as robot animation, Grendizer, Getter Robo, Mazinger Z, Code Geass, GAOGAIGAR, etc. The feeling of operating a giant robot in tabletop battles is something that other factions cannot provide. I think the knights should have their own codex instead of being affiliated with other factions. The knights are very independent in the background.
I also often participate in tabletop battles, and my usual faction is Chaos Knights, because this faction is very convenient for transforming knights. Both knights are very awkward on the table. I use WTC locally, and my opponent only needs to use targeted units to easily defeat the knight. My opponent only needs to place heavy firepower in the square, and my knight can only move slowly in the building.
As a Chaos Knights and Genestealer cult player who is building a deathwatch army this stung a little.
Since GW love producing giant thick tomes these days:
- Space marines could be rolled into two books, generic and specialist (BA, BT, SW, DA, DW)
- CSM/Daemons can be rolled into two books.
- All variants of Eldar rolled into one book
- Cult Mech/Skittari and Imp Knights all in one book.
- Sisters, Custodes, Agents of Imperium all rolled into one book. .
- Genestealer Cults, Tau, Necrons, Tyranids, Orks, Votaan and Imp Guard all have their own books.
- Throw in the core rulebook and that's a grand total of 15-16 books. Streamlines the whole thing nicely.
IF they drop any faction, I'd love to see Imperial/Chaos Knights go. Despite how cool they look, they really do play an entirely different game style to the rest of 40k armies. They've been unbalanced as all heck in regular 40k ever since they were first introduced. Of all the time playing with and against knights, even though non knight armies could beat them, I found it was almost never a fun game for the non-knight player.
I like Knights but I could see them rolling into Mechanicus/Dark Mechanicum (if it drops) and I say this as a fan of all four of those factions.
While I don't think SM will ever actually get removed I'd really like to see them take a back seat for a little bit so that GW can focus on the model ranges that most desperately need updates. Rather than releasing new marine lieutenants every 3 weeks.
You realise space marines are the reason the other ranges even exist. Without marine releases, there are no other releases. They fund the game.
@@kilamandaros That's a bit self-fulfilling, isn't it? If one army gets a huge chunk of the releases, of course they'll drive a huge chunk of the sales.
@@jarrakulyou know how many times that argument gets debunked? Space Marines have outsold every other faction since RT. Y'all need to find another source of cope
@@jarrakul nonsense, space marines have and always will be the face of 40k and the wider hobby in general. There will never be a big edition release or similar without marines because it simply wouldn't sell. They allow other factions their time in the sun like nids in 10th, crons 9th and Deathguard 8th. Without marines none of those big antagonist releases happen. It's also sadly why other existing imperial factions like guard get so little attention as they don't fit the antagonist mould.
Space marines are synonymous with 40k and they are the face of humanity in lore. Most people get interested in 40k because they think space marines are cool, which they are.
@@jarrakul
As primarily a Daemons player I would like to see us go more the way they did in AoS with unique codexes. And then a combined RoR led by Be'lakor. That being said, I'm pretty excited with the new detachments they are doing. I'm guessing our codex will have 5, the current one, and one for each god. If there unique enough I think it will be a good way to give each one their identity.
Id like to see chaos folded into 5 factions, Nurgle, Tzeech, Khorn, Slaanesh, and Undivided, so its the marines and demons together, with Undivided being the standard CSM/Demons.
Ive also seen stuff about adding Dark Mechanicum and folding the Knights into AdMech and DarkMech that seems smart
The most likely way i see an army being removed is if Imperial Knights get combined with Mechanicus.
it is against the lore
@@BloodyArchangelus Y? Because Imperial Houses don’t ever rely on tech priests?
Because we have Mechanicus houses and not Mechanicus houses. By this logic ANYTHING EXCEPT CUSTODES should be in admech codex xD@@falsehero2001
I could 100% see Knights being rolled into their respective codecii, as well as Codex: Inquistion coming back with GK and DW rolled in with Agents and Assassins
. Imperial and Chaos Knights should just be rolled into one codex: Questoris Households.
. Grey Knights, Deathwatch and Agents of the Imperium should all be lumped together as well, just give Deathwatch and Grey Knights a detachment each of you wanna play them pure. I know some would also say Sisters of Battle, but I think they have enough to stand on their own.
Can any former Squats player comment what it was like to lose your whole army? I can't imagine investing that much time and energy to have your stuff become unplayable
About 70% of the space marine chapters could be condensed into "Generic space marine chapter" and I.... don't think most people would notice.
I love Harlequins in the lore, and I was thinking of getting into the tabletop game but if Harlequins are gone than fuck that shit
Can anyone tell me what kit that primaris marine with an open powerfist model is from? About 7:12 in the vid. Or is it a kitbash with a terminator?
If I had control, I would condense as many armies as possible, one of which would be creating Codex: Inquisition.
Inquisition would have sub factions for Ordos Xenos Malleus and Hereticus, which is where I would put Deathwatch, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle.
I would also move all the imperial agents to this faction.
GW needs to do something with Druhkhari. They are very stagnant both in terms of models and lore. Give us a Vect model, updated homunculus coven models, and then make them an actual major player in the 40k setting (right now they are just raiders).
I doubt any faction would get removed from the setting. But as a favour to the customer after realising so many separate codexs are getting annoying and a waste of money, gw might absorbs several armies into one codex
Last time I was this early, Horus was still besieging Terra.
Eh. I would move Chaos to being a second set from Marines. The needed unique units I would still produce. But I would tie most chaos things into upgrade sprues. And I would focus the seperate god legions (like world eaters) by giving them 2 to 4 or 5 units each, give them 2 to 3 detachments each in a single cidex. Same with non- codex astartes. One codex for the Space Marines and One Codex for the non-applicable chapters. More upgrade sprues (so more profit) and 3 to 4 detachments each outside each.
Like GW cannot deliver on actually producing products. So combining Eldar and Drukhari (as well as the sub-facttion). Simple fact is most of the infantry at least for a few subfactions could done with a basic model an additional sprue (obviously character models and some would still need a full unique set).
And given GW's unwillingness to produce enough and focus on just year gains (regardless of leaving money on the table); I think upgrades sprues would be the best option for a number of units.
with the way they treat admech if feels like they do t want to sell any models so they can turn around and say noone plays the faction so we are removing it
Wait there are factions other than Space Marines? I thought it was just Marines and assorted targets for them to shoot at?
I truly believe they're going to drop Space Wolves at some point. They were my first Army I got as a kid I recently thought about Collecting them again but I noticed that None of the unique units that made them a cool army Have been Made big boys No grey hunters no blood claws No long fangs All of their releases Have just been standard space marines with new shoulder pads Which defeats the point of playing Space wolves They're unique in how they lay out their forces. You start as a Blood claw Young ambitious aggressive impetuous As you gain experience you become a Gray hunter Then the best of the best become the old long fang And the squad sizes Use to represent this Twenty to fifteen Blood Claw Ten gray hunters And five long fang. And that's been stripped out of them in recent years
I always figured what they should actually do is sort of get rid of codex: ts, dg,we and just make Codex: Tzeentch, Codex: Nurgle and the like and just roll up heaps of appropriate detachments for both those legions and the relevant daemons into that book, and then perhaps make a supplement chaos daemons codex so you could do mixed stuff.
Speaking as a Deathwatch player, the only way I can describe Deathwatch is it is the Yamcha of marine factions. Always being slept on and the moment it actually does something good on the tabletop GW takes its big black boot and stamps and stamps and stamps it right back into bottom tier so they don't have to remember its existence or maintain anything that makes it unique. To those who think Deathwatch is unnecessary or doesn't even know what they are here are some of the reasons why I and probably some other Deathwatch players like to collect them.
1. Kill Teams is a great way to take boring, single weapon primaris squads, makes them fun to use and reminds you of a time when you could actually take wargear on marine units.
2. The Corvus Blackstar is the best looking Imperium flyer model.
3. Out of all the marine chapters Deathwatch is the most friendly to kitbashing and is the most rewarding if you do. They make a great army to collect if you already have a marine army and have a ton of faction bits.
4. They have a very X-COM feel to the faction both in crunch and in the fluff.
5. The diversity of the Deathwatch and the great storytelling potential of brothers of different chapters coming together to fight a common foe which ironically GW likes to keep using in other marine stories but gives very little story/lore presence to Deathwatch.
I don't think I would chomp at the bit to full on remove a faction, but some of these I could definitely see getting rolled together. I've never been a big fan of some Divergent Chapters getting their own book, while other fun options are forced to languish together in one, like White Scars, and Chaos is much the same; will Iron Warriors, or Night Lords, ever really be that good? Yet I could see the I and C Knights getting rolled into a book, and I would love to see a few more factions at least get an option to ally in a squad of something else. GSC and Tau could both easily benefit from some Guard support, and it's there, in the lore. Guard could love a squad of something from the Astartes, GK, Deathwatch, or Custodes, without having to collect a whole second force, and it also appears in lore.
If I did have to drop factions, it would be GSC, AdMech, or Big Knights. Knights are neat, but they tend to feel like someone who remembers Apocalypse, and can't let it go, as well as the idea of "you either brought way too much, or way too little, AT, and that might decide the battle well before skill, or capricious dice, do.
I'll never like the model range for GSC; they are ugly, and while I get that, even in lore, the majority of the cult are ugly mutants, and at the fight stage, even these will be coming out of thecwood work, it's like a whole army of Callidus Assassins; they never actually look like that, and at least should something that says "I can blend in, really!" What GSC unit infiltrated the population, looking like those?
I don't like AdMech as a faction; I rarely imagine ever seeing them take to a field of battle, brimming with combat units, except in the defense of a Forge World, and my biggest grioe over them is the endless clamor for Dark Mechanicus to get its own range. AdMech barely pulls this off, and Dark Mech is even more flimsy. They could be great as support, like Techpriests, in Guard, or Techmarines, in Astartes, but a whole range? And a range separate from AdMech? Please no. On the other hand, if they DID get folded into a future AdMech codex, that eoyld just push me to hope for others, too, like lumping GK, DW, and most Imperial Agents into one book, or the like.
Consolidating Grey Knights into a Daemonhunters book would be a good thing. Would love to get them better integrated with Inquisitors and AM.
I think Grey Knights + Deathwatch + Inquisition would be neat. Then maybe you can have a section of your army be allied Imperial troops? A bit like how Knights can join Imperial armies.
interesting talking points. to pitch in my few cents...
- i'd hate to see Harlequins go, but if GW isnt going to bother supporting them, they might as well fade away instead of being a vestigial 'sort of' faction. roll some of their units into support for aeldari/drukhari. again, dont like it, but if there needs to a cut somewhere, it'd probably be them
- the main chaos legions _have_ to stay. we still need dedicated Emperor's Children to fill out the roster. if anything, i'd ditch generic CSM and force people to pick a god. but thats just me. maybe worship of Chaos undivided should be more established as a thing in those groups instead of just "we're generic chaos"
- as much as i hate primaris, and id love to see at least the OPTION to play real space marines again, its ridiculous that some legions/chapters arent officially supported. Imperial Fists are one of the backbones of the space marine fiction and they dont even have rules. they're also among the most gameplay mechanically unique amongst the SMs. if anything should go, its Ultramarines. they are literally carbon-copy generic "we're good at everything" marines. they have no flavor whatsoever. but thats just me being stuck in my ways. GW wants space marines to all be master chief. slick and cool, with awesome new technology and assault rifles that look like modern guns. i miss when the game was gothic and Space Marines were space monks with overblown quirks and unique traits. remember when Blood Angels were vampires, and not just red space marines that like melee? and dark angels had wings on their helmets?
- as a Drukhari main, it makes me sad to see so many people vote for them. but with how GW has treated them, im not surprised thats what people think. 10th has absolutely _gutted_ their entire personality. the army isnt even a shell of its former self anymore, its nothing. they're just dark green/black aeldari with worse rules at this point. such an absolute shame. they went from being one of the most unique factions in the game to having absolutely nothing. *sigh*
- after that is Grey Knights, which i also love and have some of. Space Paladins are awesome. but now that psychic is gone, they have nothing to make them special. so, again, i would absolutely HATE to see them go, but i wouldnt be surprised to see them get the axe. GW probably doesnt want them around. without psychic, they have no personality. and they are canonically the only true space marines left. im sure GW wants to either primaris them or delete them from the game.
- knights should go. adding them was just dumb. great models. but being an army by themselves is just dumb. i say they should be exclusive allies to admech and darkmech. but for the sake of it, ally them with whatever. just dont waste the time on writing codices for them.
This whole topic hits close to home for me. I finished my 2000 point Harlequins army just in time for 10th edition to make the army functionally dead.
For me, I’ve realised, it’s not a bad thing if factions don’t get lots of new units. Factions should get updated kits for outdated ones, but they don’t need loads of new units. The benefit of not being a SM is that your faction is not a subscription service
😂
Why even include GSC in the thumbnail and introduction? They have a pretty strong range, and are consistently in play. There's no way they'd drop them now.
As a primary Deathwatch player I can see them being taken away but at least not for this edition as we got a confirmation from Warhammer Fest that we are getting a supplement.
No contest on Imperial and Chaos Knights being high on the list of factions to drop. They, along with Harlequins and Deathwatch, don't really have enough going for them as self-sufficient factions insofar as the standard 40k game goes. That's not to say that their ranges should be axed or anything, but none of them seem like they should be the main focus of an army at 2000pts.