For new players I think it's important to point out not only that Darktide has a soft meta, meaning it's realistically possible to complete the hardest difficulty with any combination of weapons, blessings and skills, but that pursuing the meta might be harmful to both their improvement and their enjoyment of the game.
People put too much emphasis on metas and the best gear when it’s not at all necessary to do well at all. I think the harm comes from when people force it on others rather than let them discover it naturally, which is why I hope this video can reach the masses and help some avoid that from happening^^
darktide is not as hard as vermintide 2, you can eff play anything, still there some guns that are so clunky that i find a torture to use, and then you have the combat knifes and columnus mk V, weapons so good and consistent you can play in every possible class (i'm talking about damnation/auric).
Yeah, “love” the speed runners that actively dump aggro on others in quick play, while claiming everyone else is doing it wrong and they’re playing the meta.
I pretty much just tell people to mess around with as many weapons as they can and find one they feel comfortable on. My sister uses chain weapons and does well with them, but I can't stand their attack patterns. We get through missions just as well and she has fun. People play differently as well and sometimes the meta set ups don't work well for them. I feel like simply understanding game mechanics for tide games is about 75% of the difficulty of tide games. The other 25% I would say is the actual applied methods/tactics and gear. Meaning you can basically make anything work. I really don't care what people use.
Playing from the 1st Tide to the current taught me 1 thing, use whatever you feel fits your style. It's more about the skill of the player and the team work. It doesn't matter if you can 1 shot anything, you're always 1 bad dodge from receiving a big hit, getting netted, exploded or dog piled, that or getting matched with some rando-commandos that love to run and consume resources like a headless chicken. Just use whatever build you feel good with and have fun.
Meta items don’t make much of a difference when the majority of the people can’t hold their own in an average damnation scenario. It’s surprising how far you can get with just good dodges and shoves.
It all depends on how fun the meta makes the game, whether it makes the game more or less fun is a big factor in how you enjoy the game, and how strong the meta truly is. Like you said, in the tide games the meta is very different because of the ability to choose what's effective for you, as well as what's the most effective in any given situation, which really helps in making the game feel more "fun"
Another dimension to 'meta' is the "win more" meta versus the "clutch" meta. Mostly what you see people consider meta is stuff that allows them to get the most kills when things are going fine, and they're just competing against their team-mates for most kills. But this is often not the same as the meta which will allow you to hard-carry people through a difficult encounter.
In general, people who're not wholly comfortable in a given difficulty will fixate on one or the other. Usually "win more" types are coasting off the back of someone sheltering them from serious pressure, and "clutch" types are the ones having to pick up the pieces of their "win more" prima donnas. High pressure "clutch" scenarios are necessarily fraught enough that you cannot prepare for them in their entirety, and in trying to prepare for those scenarios you can waste resources by 1) not getting to clutch because things go too well, 2) getting clapped well before you get to clutch, and 3) getting clapped while clutching and wasting most of this hypothetical clutch power. It's simply not worthwhile emphasizing hypothetical clutch power, VS simply putting more build resources into not letting them go to shit in the first place. That said, the people who operate in a pure white room DPS scenario for "win more" optimizing are equally unhinged. A minor nod to "clutch" power is often enough to make a build far more resilient and put the brakes on an encounter that might otherwise be a fail deadly spiral, so much so that it's ridiculous not to. Blitz and class abilities oriented in this direction come to mind: they can often enable more damage and assertiveness by teammates with an injection of courage via CC or resilience. The downside in trying to use such abilities is that they're often highly variable in performance depending on teammates' initiative, and I don't think it's unfair to arrive at the conclusion that you can't really trust rando teammates to make the best use of them.
In a way I agree but in others I dont. Often those who use clutch builds often help create those clutch situations by their very build. The revolver/speed build and invisible builds are good examples. The revolver build can't put out enough ranged fire to help form the base of fire and if no one else can compensate the team can get overrun ... At which point the speed kicks in and they can kite enemies and shoot them for quite some time. They weakened their team but once the team went down this is perhaps the best build to clutch. The invisible builds utilize speed and strategic stealth and tend to be running around the map but where they usually aren't is near the party. This leaves 3 fighting and it's easier to get overwhelmed. If the build is fast enough they can clutch without too much difficulty running and hiding.
my favorite thing about the tide games is just making new builds that i feel are genuinely mine ive looked up build guides and tried youtuber builds sure but it'll never feel the same as making a build that i can call my own even if its probably one someone's come up with before it still just feels like, "look at this cool build i made on my own without a guide or anything" build crafting is just one of my favorite things in any game and personally i just could never follow meta because it just takes away so much in my opinion
This is one of the main reasons I really don’t like making build videos. I enjoy finding my own builds and want to encourage others to do the same, and I don’t want others to feel pigeonholed into running a specific build because “I said so”
Hard-metas are bad, because they limit creativity. Before the class rework and PS nerfs in Darktide I used to play veteran with headhunter (3 tap version) and a shovel in regular damnation runs, since the shovel didn't have enough cleave to make high-intensity fun, so I opted for regular t5. Shovel has great mobility, but you can't handle hordle like at all. Even though I could very well handle myself during a fight in regular damnation, people would leave lobbies when they saw my shovel, because 95% of vets used the same weapon, so why risk it with a shovel maniac. The game is in a decent state. Shovel is still not a horde beast, but it did get significant buffs, it's mediocre at everything, bad at nothing. I'm just happy kantrael XI is no longer meta, because I wish carpal tunnel on no-one. Thanks for the video.
They really just ought to make it automatic. For the sake of people's wrists and fingers. I play tide games with my mouse's autoclicker which makes light spam less taxing, I can't imagine people without that who then have to trigger finger a gun to use it well. One shudders to imagine what chronic and sustained cruelty they endure...
I only use the meta to look for new interesting builds I might enjoy. I generally shape my builds around the general idea of the meta while keeping a personal touch. With that being said, I find a lot of meta builds extremely uncomfortable, because they try to minmax something specific while neglecting the rest, or simply too focused on a playstyle I dislike. Basically, what you have to know about the meta if you want to play Tide games is that you should use it to build something fun for you (another use might be if you want to explore a new class and to experiment with what's considered good for it). On the whole, playing the meta is not bad per se, it's just that people who develop an unhealthy obsession over it tend to make it cringe.
I find a lot of people do that too. Meta weapons are meta for their strengths but also because they just feel really good and satisfying to use. Because of this we usually see a lot of meta weapons across all difficulties, but less of the same meta builds as the difficulty rises as people get good enough to experiment with their builds.
4:23 - "Partially because FatShark tends to overdo it in the nerf department sometimes" By the Emperor you're not joking. I always say, FatShark doesn't adjust numbers and wait to see, they grab a power hammer and beat it until its unrecognizable. So when people want something already strong to be buffed even more, I'm like shhhh "the great lidless eye of FatShark will notice, and you don't want that!" I suspect this is the first tide game for many of them and they don't know what they are dealing with haha.
People forget easily as well that Meta is not only changing but they have to be discovered first as well. I still remember early days of Darktide before this new update during the early release days when people were saying Revolver sucked and the Lasgun and Plasma gun was the best weapon for Veteran. I started using Revolver simply because it was the closest thing to a Bolt Pistol we have in this game. Then I got the Handcannon trait and started popping heads easily. Then words started to spread that Revolver was better than people thought if they get the Handcannon trait and spec into high Crit chance builds. It went from "This gun sucks" to "It is Meta" once people started learn a bit more about build the gun and a bit more self control when it came to ammo.
First time I didn't even look at the revolver. Just somehow didn't appeal to me. Then I got one with crucian roulette and hand cannon from melk and decided to give it a go. Safe to say it's one of my main stay weapons for handling and accuracy alone. Cutting a group of pox to pieces then quick draw the revolver to take out a sniper in a damn near instant never gets old. Being able to take out crushers with it is just the icing on top
Another in-depth and rounded insight on the topics of Tide. I'm curious to hear your thoughts more conversationally, not to the devils-advocate extent, but in contrast! PS; let's see that reverse difficulty meta, more insights I'd love to see!
yeah the melee trait meta is pretty set in stone but at least that’s just one part of a build. opportunist is pretty good on some melees, ranged can be pretty loose, and you can generally swap around charm and trinket traits freely. honestly the one trait that i consider meta 100% of the time is barkskin on necklaces
I wouldn’t necessarily call swift slaying hard meta as there are some weapons that can use other traits better. Barskin though is what I’d call hard meta, no other reason to use anything other than that
@@jtcLIVE i totally on barskin being a hard meta mostly because the other options are not worth it enough. Even though on weapons (not guns as I wrote previously) the main reason why other traits, apart from opportunist, aren't used is that they don't really provide anything interesting and many times they are difficult to activate not fit any weapon in particular, so you can't even build around it. Changing the traits is something I wish they really did to vermentide, it could take not too much effort, but the impact would be enormous.
Glad the Darktide ‘meta’ isn’t as powerful as VT meta Barkskin cough Swift slaying cough Darktide there aren’t really any universal things that you just run cause it’s the best by far
IMO a player shouldn't care that much about Meta in any player-skill-based PvE games, unless you wish to compete with other people in forms of something like speedrunning. In the pure PvE context, any build or playstyle that allows you to enjoy the game, find satisfaction and have fun is YOUR Meta. If your build lets you press one button and wipe out all enemies on the map instantly, is it strong? Is it Meta? Absolutely. Is it fun, though? That depends. Fun and satisfaction isn't composed solely of winning.
Many softer metas increase replayability. Where as hard metas force you into one lane of gameplay. I really like to play the Eviscerator MkXV (with Zealot) so much that I feel like it's not worth it playing something else as melee, even though I would like to change it up. Can someone recommend something else? Is the "devil's claw" Mk4 also worth the try? I would run it with a flamer as a horde-control melee build
Love melee speed Atrox Mk4 Axe, run nothing but light attacks on that with Fury of the Faithful + Momentum and you destroy everything including Crushers and Maulers
Agree with you about Evis Zealot. With the bless gain cleave on hit it become so OP against every enemies type even with monstrosities and deamonhost. Even with High-Intensity shock troops gaunlet on Damnation I just dash left and right and cleave everything.
I agree with other guy the tac axes are surprisingly fun and satisfying to use on zealot, coming from someone who avoided them. They're definitely "off-meta" because of damage, but sprinting around the map towards every enemy and asking, "Will it blend?" is just plain neuron-activating fun. Other good stuff besides Heavy Chainsword are MkXIIIg Chainsword (quicker little brother to MkXV Evis with more versatility) MkIII Knife (massive speed and evasion, crits, crits, crits. both marks are good, honestly) MkIX Heavy Sword (kinda just feel like a boss using this one)
Love me the Heavy Sword, but I switched out to that axe I spoke about earlier since the Mk 9 has no armour damage at all so you'd be reliant on your ranged weapon@@nontologicalbeing
It's a bit of work to get, since you really need the level 4 blessing. But the new mk6 knife with Haymaker is really fun, you sacrifice a good chunk to the mk3's knife armor pen to deal with said knife's one weakness of rager patrols, might want to get uncanny strike or ruthless backstab to compensate. A neat little alternative to the standard bleed knife build
may be more or less obvious to people depending on their skill level but i have never once seen a competent AND toxic player on darktide. i have put a lot of thought and hours into darktide so the only people that are left who are better than me are extremely humble and focused individuals. unsanitary mindsets never last long in this game.
Some things are still overtuned to the point where I just want to leave when I queue into. Multiple plasma shout vets, a trauma staff Psyker nuking the entire map, people who only spam smite and force you to babysit them as you attack stationary enemies that cant fight back etc. I dont get mad at people for running these builds but it does get lame to constantly see the same few setups after awhile.
You could be running a match with all lvl 30s running their respected meta and lose, and later run a match with all mid lvl players and win. Being perceptive, implementing target prioritization, and using teamwork is arguably more important than running the meta. The meta doesn't make you good; YOU make you good. You kind of voiced the same sentiment at 6:20 Metas do however help quite a bit, however they shouldn't be seen as a crutch to stop learning, nor should it be seen at the only way to play.
I have a rule for myself that I cannot use the same weapon on two different builds at the same time and have to switch which build I play after at least three or four wins. Since I have 5 characters with 5 builds per character I am always using different weapons and builds whenever I play. It keeps the game feeling fresh in spite of the 3000 hours I sunk into the vermintide games and the 1000+ I've sunk in Darktide. Yeah, I have some meta builds with meta weapons, but the game play loop in the tide games can get pretty stale if you never mix it up and it means that if one of the weapons I'm using gets nerfed I don't suffer for that nerf because I can either switch it out already adjusted to the new weapon or easily adapt to the new functionality rather than struggling because my main weapon isn't performing how it used to and I don't have any experience using anything else. I have a friend I play with who will always pick one weapon and stick with it no matter what. When the original power sword got nerfed he spent several weeks endlessly failing because he couldn't adjust to the new power sword and had never adjusted to playing anything else.
very well said. I'm running so many different builds and loadouts on my Veteran alone and all work on auric. Can't be bothered to run around with a plasma gun or Columnus Mk5 anymore
You're missing the biggest "meta" weapon, the Columnus Infantry Autogun. Higher damage, stagger, and fire rate than most other guns, insane with crits, deletes even crushers with just a little bit of rending. And it's busted across all three human classes. Yet, this is still "soft meta", I still regularly clear Auric missions with other guns.
Whenever I get a start to get a lil bored of playing a class I switch up my weapons and talents, trying new things and weapons I haven't tried before. I end up finding fun in weapons that I've slept on. I recommend any player explore the huge variety of weapons and builds to get the most enjoyment :) (a surpluss of money and plasteel certainly helps lol). Learning how different talents and weapons support the team will let you play anything you like while still claiming victory! (And there's no shame in playing lower difficulties to learn!)
There is no meta. I've been playing Grai Braced Auto + Heavy Sword Zealot and winning back to back Auric Maelstroms. But an idiot like Tanner Lindberg is going to tell me that I'm bad, my build is bad and I should feel bad because I'm not using a Columnus IA. If you are good at FPS mechanics and are good at dealing with what Darktide throws at you, you can do whatever you want.
I never said you should feel bad lmao. But did you ever stop to think it maybe had something to do with the 3 paragraph long comment you left riddle with insults? And when i said come play a few games with me and prove your build doesnt suck you mysteriously stopped responding. Funny how that part isnt mentioned the fact you went out of your way to be a dick head. Got called out and you know. The fact your on someone elses video bad mouthing me not even being entirely honest about why speaks volumes to your maturity level. And does, in fact, prove you are an idiot. Also, there is a meta in every game ever. The fact you think there isn't a meta in darktide really does show just far into your own delusionals you are
I always impose a challenge on myself where I use the worst weapon, and do my best to make it work effectively. In a fighting game I'd always pick the weakest character, and it's always satisfying when I beat another person who chose a meta pick. At that point it's also undeniable that you're a good player, as you can't be dismissed as someone who's abusing a broken build/weapon/character.
With Darktide I almost feel like there's personal metas too, where certain weapons just feel better to use and seem to work better for some players than others. For instance, in my play group we have a guy that makes the bolter do the Emperor's holy work, and no one else can and often gets frustrated with it.
I agree heavy on the point of some people using the meta as a reason to be mean to other players. Certainly there are some things I look at myself and think "yea this set up is not great, I'm not skilled enough to use it" and simply don't, seeing other people using builds they're seemingly not doing great at running can be frustrating but ultimately working as a team and helping them get comfortable trying new things even for just one match is the nature of the game. If people try to pigeonhold other players from experimenting because in that moment they're "not good enough" then we're affectively gatekeeping the learning curve as well as hundreds of hours from potential long term players. I've seen a lot of people ask what the actual long term goal/incentive of playing Tide games are. The dialogue and banter has always been one reason, the immersive world, great combat too, but its always stood out to me the factor that you present: getting good enough to use whatever I want. I might love the Plasma Gun more than any other ranged in the game and it may be extremely strong to boot, but branching out and trying all kinds of combinations is a big draw of the game. For example: experimenting with Scriers Gaze and Disrupt destiny + kantrael laz pistol and dueling sword has been some of my most enjoyable runs and a build id otherwise not considered as I usually play Psyker least. Now its one of my favourite builds and has led to many maelstrom clutches
If something takes considerable amount of skill to work then there's a good chance that it's not really in the meta, because actual meta provides good damage at little costs, which means you don't have to perform a series of gymnastics to get it working. For example, Columnus IAG is meta because it has such insane DPS that you just point at rager herds and they stop being a problem anymore. Plasma gun is meta because you just throw horde management out of the window and delete everything that's remotely close to your crosshair. Martyrdom is not meta, you need to deliberately sabotage yourself to get the buff and the buff isn't even that great. Shotgun is not meta, you need a lot of setup and the stars to align to make it worth while, and it's a bug, and it's still outclassed by pretty much everything. Also gunpsyker with SG and DD isn't an experiment, it's literally the current psyker meta because it provides insane amount of killing power while requiring little finesse as staff psykers do.
@@KanaKaname “experimenting” was used more in respect to that I don’t usually look up builds I use while making them. I know gunpsyker in concept is very good, but I enjoy learning how each of the nodes/skills/blessings mesh for myself. So when I made my SG and DD build I was personally experimenting. Psyker is my least played character too, so it was a lot of fun stumbling my way into a build I really enjoy for them. Too I don’t run that build as a gunner per se. I play it much more like how I play zealot; crit kantrael lazpistol for popping important targets then spending 70%-80% of my time with my dueling sword out. Maybe that IS how gunpsyker is played, that’s cool. But I personally enjoyed experimenting in my own matches than following how it’s “meant” to be played and set up in order to be meta. I more so followed what felt cool and happened upon something people regard as “really good”. I didn’t think crit kantrael lazpistol built with infernus and +toughness on crit kill was necessarily a meta setup when I did it but it felt nice. If the community regards it as meta then cool, but I still experimented. And that’s much of the fun of the game, and I imagine much of the fun for casual players who also (generalizing probably) don’t always look up their builds. Also yea Plasma gun is undeniably meta, it feels amazing but it could be tuned down a little bit.
I've never intentionally followed any metas in this game and got along just fine with my own builds even on the hardest Auric missions so I feel meta in this game is just more about personal choice and what you like running more than anything
Hm, I like popping heads with lasgun (Mk Ia to be specific). I see how autogun vet is more versatile than lasgun sniper due to autogun being more universal and lasgun being not nearly as effective at clearing hordes and me having to use grenades for that (and thus being useless against Maulers and Crushers; or picking Krack grenades and not pulling my weight against hordes). Basically have to depend on somebody other picking Maulers, or stunning/killing hordes depending on what grenade I choose...
No matter what i pick as a veteran for example.. i always think, yeh.. its fun, but the plasma is better. Whenever i play the ogryn, i try to use different guns and builds.. but nothing beats the Kickback.. everytime i pick something else, its kinda lacking. Also.. when i pick the nuke, i almost never need it. No large groups or clutch moments.. but the second i decide to pick the rock or the box, there are tons of situations where the nuke would have been perfect, or even saved the run..
I prefer the Graia Braced Autogun over the Aggripina, but yeah, the Braced autoguns are in a good place right now. I should maybe try build a maxed aggripiina though to try now that you mentioned it. I see no issues adhering to soft meta as in choosing the best weapons to use, though I avoid the Hard metas of say everlasting shroudfield as it'll be removed by FS as it's an actual bug -if it hasn't already been removed. However I do like chain weapons so I tend to run with those even when they're not optimal gamewise. The new chainsword is in a good place right now though so that's what I prefer. I still have a collection of god rolled axes to fall back on if I feel the need.
The Agri Braced is up there with the plasma gun for me in turning Darktide into a point and click adventure. All you need it a decently high rolled one with maybe a Flak dmg perk anything else is just bonus. After that you just run around blazing away, no need to brace really the only time you need to think about shooting is when something is 25+ meters and you need to either crouch or tap fire. The high level of Punchthrough just makes it so easy to use. Only downside of the weapon is its firing pattern is either a cone shooting normally that gets flattened closer to a horizontal line firing braced so any of the headshot talents lose effectiveness because you should be aiming center mass at anything beyond 10m.
@@BuckRodgers3 Good imput! I can pick off snipers with the Graia if braced now that I've gotten used to it. It takes more of a god roll though for both high stability and damage for it to be good at doing that. I'll give the Aggrippina another go though, to see gow far I can push the envelope on it too. Building these and trying out are fun to me and a motivation to keep playing. :)
@@thunder2434 It does take a while before you get used to the Braced autoguns firing pattern. Next on my list is trying out the Agri Infantry auto, for all that the Colmnus 5 is the meta pick it just doesn't feel good to me due to the lack of punchthrough.
@@BuckRodgers3 I'm going from Autopistol that I was performing long range surgery with and emergency hoardclear with but it's a bit weak in damage, to Braced Autoguns to get more damage. The Graia braced is the most nimble and most similar of the autopistol so it was a natural transition. The Columnus feels like a downgrade as a middle ground. The Aggri is closer to how the bigger guns are. I may work my way up to the Aggri braced over time.
Narrow corridor (most of Darktide), your team in the middle, other sides - 3+ crushers, trappers, maulers, flamers and snipers very close (and just one bomber!). Meta veterans with recon lasguns will just die. On high difficulty preffered diffirent classes with diffirent weapons. (Or a skilled players - i never forget 4 psykers on damnation hight intence game where everything were oneshoted without chances). Some meta don't work without proper blessings (3 lvl ogryn sticky bomb for a granade launcher for example - boss stunlock).
For most people, meta is whats most broken per patch. To me that kind of “meta” is for people who are bad at the game seeking easy way out by exploiting what produces biggest number. To me i like to use what i enjoy til i master it. Then run that on Auric. That gives me a satisfaction of winning the game in my own terms.
Meta not only changes as you increase the difficulty of the game, it also changes as you improve as a player. The weapon that is most emblematic of this imo is the Mk4 Chainaxe which was considered so bad you couldn't take it for a long time (and yes, i know it's very strong now, still underrated somehow tho XD), all the while I and some other players found that by optimizing our gameplay we could take advantage of it's powerful latching attacks making it at times the best weapon for the job. Also some weapons benefit from talents with a high skill requirements like Martyrdom more than others to reach breakpoints consistently or to create synergies between attack speed and buff-on-hit blessings. Simply put I find people who call out others for not using the meta are really showing their ignorance, rather than knowledge, of the game.
I agree to some point. It's true that the game has some sort of "soft meta", but the is a huge problem: CZcams videos with titles like "this build will let you win everything" or "this build let's you win hardest difficulty" and then explain nothing but how they play. And imho, there resides the harm: not everyone has the same playstyle, and thus the build may not suit a lot of people. Or the build is the result of hundreds of hours of gameplay, trial and error, and expecting instant results is naive. And when people try the build and follow the "advice" from these videos and the logical outcome punches them in the face like a brickwall, they put the blame into the team. Other videos blatantly lie to the wiever by telling an especific build is not inly viable, but one of the best (if not the best) but the part they omit on purpose is that the build works because they use mods that are pure cheats (like having infinite dodges), and without those mods the build is a recipe for disaster that will likely lead to a TPK. My advice to newbies: is not "bad" to stay in lower difficulties until you find your playstyle and your combination of weapons and keystones that suits you. I have more than 600 hours and I still have fun trying to find new builds that I find fun to play.
I like dual daggers more than sword and dagger, even though sword and dagger is objectively better. I have a lot more practice on dual daggers and therefore am better with them than sword and dagger. When it comes to Darktide I was running Martyrdom Zealot waaaay before it was cool (and arguably bad) lol
In V2 i went out of my way to play with every weapon until i got 5k kils each on them in cataclysm.(using the mod for counting kills) My conclusion was fatshark was really good at designing weapons in game. Some weapons took more skill and a bit more time to learn but all were useful. Currently in Darktide i just play whatever i feel like playing weapon wise. I just find it annoying when someone is finally putting on big boy pants to play auric and want to try to direct the team. For me when i see someone playing something i don't get i sit back and learn or laugh depending how the perform.
Darktide is one of the few games I've played that is full of soft metas. It's one of the most balanced games I've ever played at this current time. The crafting system sucks ass, yeah, but so what. I'm currently arguing with some CZcamsr about shotguns. He thinks they are garbage, and he's wrong. He just doesn't know how to use them. I love this game.
@@brandenpedersen5127 I can't tell if you are trolling here, but obviously this goes to the hand cannon or one of the kantrael las rifles. But as far as versatility? Yeah, the Dragon's Breath is up there.
I'm interested in giving Infernus and Dumdum on the blessings a go, as I think the combination sounds like fun, but I haven't tried it yet so I can't say for sure how well it works.
I don't expect my teammates to play the meta, but I expect them to be decent and to fulfill their role. I've only called out a fire shotgun veteran that wasn't fulfilling his class role because his build couldn't.
There are no class roles. At best there are build roles. Everyone can do everything and any inability to accomplish something is that person's own failure. All classes can kill monstrosities in 15 seconds or less solo. All classes can kill crushers in 1-3 hits melee or ranged. All classes can pick off trappers, flamers. All classes can horde clear. All classes can clear snipers. This isnt an MMO, the only role is teammate.
Have never been called out for using whatever weapon. I only play pub games and I see people running various kits on Auric Damnation. Experienced players perform well with anything mainly because they're not acting selfishly and know how to play as a team. I'd encourage everyone to try out all weapons and play the ones that are fun and feel good. In the long term, you will figure out the pros and cons of each weapon and will understand which nodes you´should skill for that particular kit you run.
for a PvE game this community is surprisingly toxic to casual players who don't take the game and their build too seriously or just find suboptimal builds fun. Just this week I found a small darktide guide channel dedicated to berating anyone who uses what they didn't consider meta and other channels who promote suboptimal builds, the guy would start recording only to yell at under performing perk nodes and weapons for an hour straight.
Man, just avoid those channels, some people are just sick. Fortunately I've never heard or read in-game anyone berating someone for their build. Other than the typical squeaky kid, I've seen only call outs due to skill but they're usually in a moderate and helpful tone.
There is not really some "Hard meta" like you said right now, maybe the Colomnus MKV at best and it depends a lot around stats and blessing you got. As long as you know how to use it it's very hard to find a "bad" weapon, the only one i think about for a very long time was the Agripinaa Mk IX Headhunter but since they change it recently it's really hard to put it into the trashbin if you have a good talent tree.
People love to throw out the Meta this meta that. But whenever you ask someone where you can find these "Meta" builds there is always silence. I could make a "Meta" build for every weapon combo, it ain't about whatever weapon you want to play, the problem usually arrives when people go into games with talent setups that makes no sense.
They need to rework a lot of things for my taste. Right now there is 3 types or weapon. Good against unarmored good against armor and híbrids. Both the hordes and armored enemies are not strong enough so híbrids weapons are the best right now. Some blessings are busted some are trash some need another blessing to have his full potencial. And the crafting sistem does not help with experimentación. About meta I don't have a clue because I am a ogryn main but I miss some boss that doesn't shout like a shoty. And the combat knife need a nerf in general it gives too much mobility.
Great vid jtc, most people overlook the other end of the conversation and im glad you touched on it. Can you do a video on specific things that are overtuned or counterintuitive, there has been alot of talk about smite and shout lately.
@@jtcLIVE someone asked about how to find out the specific details on certain things, the wiki wasnt updated, and they gave an example like "how many targets does smite hit?" the specific answer was "too many" LUL jokes aside, your great at coming at that type of stuff from all sides, ive never felt the need to grab my pitchfork 💚
OK we need a build for combat axe because it good but I don't think its touching metta level unless I missing something. Mk iii knife I think be a better spot, but then again, I crazy. must be something I am missing.
Once you get good enough with it, especially melee combat, you don't need a META build or META team composition, or God-tier weapons. This is true of every game, but I feel even more so in Darktide. It can punish you of course, but it's more about positioning and game sense than Time-To-Kill and such. Sometimes you enter Crazytown, and the spawns become ridiculous to the point that the game feels broken, but even then, you can push through with good game sense, ammo conservation (never enough), ect... Plus, if you have a Smiter (Palpatine Psycher), the game becomes even more straight forward. Or a Hobo Zealot (knives, backstab, stealth, speed), who can pretty much solo the game. I'm talking Auric Maelstrom, the highest difficulty. I've seen all sorts of team composition, builds, and player skills, and it's all doable. Some builds will make it faster (killing monstrosity, ragers, unyielding or carapace quickly), safer, but skills, game sense, that's what works, and you can't really compensate a lack of skill or awareness with god-tier weapons or a META build you don't know how to use.
The only Meta I want for this game is for people to learn how to react while facing different types of enemies, knowing movement, rotations and maps. Cause, Jesus Christ. Some of these people are so used to people doing the jobs for them that they end up not knowing wtf to do when alone. Ended up having a 40 minute game on Heresy threat. Those people are something to behold when they were left alone. Like what I tell to people. It's OKAY to go back to easier difficulty to learn the game. Not jumping into the pits of hell and risking the experience of others.
Recently had a 1hr game in Malice, even the bots would have been less frustrating, it's one of the few times I really told the guys to play in a lower difficulty. They were lvl 15 to 20, felt someone had been carrying them since they barely used any melee and dodging mechanics. When I play with a friend of mine who is still a noob for Tide mechanics I make sure we stay in Uprising 'til he gets the basics, even in Malice he had a really bad time.
Dark tides meta become the following :play what you want because when the only thing left is aurics and you even find those boring the game is essentially pointless.
There will only be a meta if you bother to watch videos like this or read about it. I personally just play the game. It's pretty easy even on damnation. The auric missions are challenging as they are relentless.
I think i am Ok DT player with mostly standart damnation and, for example, i hate braced autoguns and never use them. Crafted few good rolls, but meh, i can be more accurate with twinlinked stubbers) Buuuut recon lasguns really bad Q_Q. Imo its a heresy maximum.
One can only wonder why Bobby wrote that comment. Does he not like the meta? Does he think himself so superior to everyone to the point that, he takes an innocuous comment and sees a chance to flex his tide skillz? It’s perplexing
@@bigbobrossa8524 Mark 4 power sword, La lasgun, full krak grenade/grenade regen/revive shout/support veteran loadout. Anything that I can't annihilate with krak grenades, power sword, or the lasgun will get obliterated by my team who I make sure is always up and running.
Running the meta doesnt really matter because the game is currently still too easy for high skilled players. If playing DWONS+ in VT2, there definitely is a meta, and not running it will make your team suffer as a result.
New Meta: Do not go into Auric Damnation / Maelstrom if you cannot survive for more than 10 seconds - followed of course by leaving when you permanently go down and need to be rescued. Sounds like I'm joking but I see it all the time. Pick someone up, 10 seconds later, the noise of a player going down. It's ok to learn the game and move up slowly.
TL;DR - OP thinks they can gatekeep new players trying out harder difficulties instead of getting a premade team of experienced players via Discord or having friends.
@@squirrelstar051 The part where you say "don't join if you can't survive for more than 10 seconds", which means you're gatekeeping inexperienced/new players by attempting to forbid them from attempting to try the higher difficulties. Think squirrel, think. How can they find out if they can survive more than 10 seconds if you won't let them join in the first place?
@@PlebNC Well they should see if you could last 10 seconds of Auric Damnation first. That’s like being new to the game and play Expert on L4D2. If they’re competent on the difficulty before it, then They’re competent for the difficulty above. Having a Malice player jump into Auric Maelstrom is stupid, when they should test themselves for Damnation. Also the OP isn’t gatekeeping, he’s just politely calling them bad and suggests they should gitgud on other difficulties instead of skipping primary school towards university when they’re not even that good.
@@cekojuna6930 Well it across, at least to me, as gatekeeping and was driven by concern to lessen the likelihood of high difficulty lobbies becoming hostile to players who just want to try out the higher difficulties.
Ye meta ain't worth shit in a pve game that doesn't even have a scoreboard. For pvp games it's no longer a matter of should u run it or not it becomes mandatory at the highest levels of competition unfortunately and even in pve when u got actual scoreboard it matters if it decides whether to take a player with u or not obviously all factors that don't mean shit in driptide
As with any game with a meta, elitist A-holes who think it's their place to tell others, be it new or even experienced players, how they should play the game, are the actual problem. Now, I have no problem with people using metas. I personally don't see the fun in using it day in and day out. But there is nothing worse than seeing some cocky elitist tall down on people and saying the team is "throwing" running off on their own to try and prove something, dying, berating teammates for "not being good enough" or anything of that varying degree, and then leaving. I fancy myself Deep Rock Galatic. Of course there are elitist there too from time to time. For the most part though, you will have new player and older player interactions that are informational and friendly. There is, of course, the indoctrination that goes on the longer the green beard stays around the grey beard, but we will the RICH-ual out of this discussion for now. Experienced players should be willing to answer questions and give some advice in regards to playing the game and things they might be doing wrong that are harmful to their own experience. For instance, thinking that a perk works one way when it doesn't or using items that don't interact well or common mistakes that lead to going down. However, what should not be done is telling them how to play the game and that unless it is meta, they are playing wrong. Be a good gamer, and have fun at the end of the day. Might even make a new friend. Used to sherpa Destint raids all the time, and I've met a lot of people over the nearly 9 years I played before stopping.
Yes there is Not really a meta-defining build in dark tide. There is only mitigation of possible obstacles. And absolutely garbage tier weapons IM LOOKING AT YOU OGRYN POWER MAUL
The "skill is more important than build" argument falls apart in many maelstroms where you NEED to bring a strong build that can handle the current modifiers or you WILL be overrun. Getting tired of having to deal as much damage as the rest of my team combined and still having way more threats around than there should be
That's the whole point of auric/maelstroms though. They aren't meant to be part of the gameplay loop for the average playerbase but serve as proving grounds for peak performance gear. "Bricked" and off-meta loadouts perform perfectly well on damnation as long as you have a good foundation in gamesense.
Darktide current plasma shouting veteran SUCKS. Don't get me wrong, veteran, plasma or shout ability are not bad by any means. Bad thing is veteran players tend to run this build LITERALLY ANY mission. They don't think what team needs, they don't concider mission specifics or anything else.
as a sidenote to things that are meta in the context of things that encourage you to get good at the game, i would also encourage new players to not become too reliant on an overabundance of "CC" (smite, shields, ect) to carry them through games as this kind of playstyle encourages NOT engaging with the melee/shooting systems and will stunt your growth (and potentially your team's growth) as a player, in addition they are SLOW and not favored by high end players who would much rather you actually do damage and kill things so the mission can be cleared in a timely fashion.
For new players I think it's important to point out not only that Darktide has a soft meta, meaning it's realistically possible to complete the hardest difficulty with any combination of weapons, blessings and skills, but that pursuing the meta might be harmful to both their improvement and their enjoyment of the game.
People put too much emphasis on metas and the best gear when it’s not at all necessary to do well at all.
I think the harm comes from when people force it on others rather than let them discover it naturally, which is why I hope this video can reach the masses and help some avoid that from happening^^
darktide is not as hard as vermintide 2, you can eff play anything, still there some guns that are so clunky that i find a torture to use, and then you have the combat knifes and columnus mk V, weapons so good and consistent you can play in every possible class (i'm talking about damnation/auric).
Yeah, “love” the speed runners that actively dump aggro on others in quick play, while claiming everyone else is doing it wrong and they’re playing the meta.
I pretty much just tell people to mess around with as many weapons as they can and find one they feel comfortable on. My sister uses chain weapons and does well with them, but I can't stand their attack patterns. We get through missions just as well and she has fun.
People play differently as well and sometimes the meta set ups don't work well for them.
I feel like simply understanding game mechanics for tide games is about 75% of the difficulty of tide games. The other 25% I would say is the actual applied methods/tactics and gear. Meaning you can basically make anything work.
I really don't care what people use.
Playing from the 1st Tide to the current taught me 1 thing, use whatever you feel fits your style. It's more about the skill of the player and the team work. It doesn't matter if you can 1 shot anything, you're always 1 bad dodge from receiving a big hit, getting netted, exploded or dog piled, that or getting matched with some rando-commandos that love to run and consume resources like a headless chicken.
Just use whatever build you feel good with and have fun.
Meta items don’t make much of a difference when the majority of the people can’t hold their own in an average damnation scenario. It’s surprising how far you can get with just good dodges and shoves.
Or just main oggy and have more braincells than an in lore oggy and you’ll go far
also assails make people think they are better than they are imho
It all depends on how fun the meta makes the game, whether it makes the game more or less fun is a big factor in how you enjoy the game, and how strong the meta truly is. Like you said, in the tide games the meta is very different because of the ability to choose what's effective for you, as well as what's the most effective in any given situation, which really helps in making the game feel more "fun"
Another dimension to 'meta' is the "win more" meta versus the "clutch" meta. Mostly what you see people consider meta is stuff that allows them to get the most kills when things are going fine, and they're just competing against their team-mates for most kills. But this is often not the same as the meta which will allow you to hard-carry people through a difficult encounter.
In general, people who're not wholly comfortable in a given difficulty will fixate on one or the other. Usually "win more" types are coasting off the back of someone sheltering them from serious pressure, and "clutch" types are the ones having to pick up the pieces of their "win more" prima donnas.
High pressure "clutch" scenarios are necessarily fraught enough that you cannot prepare for them in their entirety, and in trying to prepare for those scenarios you can waste resources by 1) not getting to clutch because things go too well, 2) getting clapped well before you get to clutch, and 3) getting clapped while clutching and wasting most of this hypothetical clutch power. It's simply not worthwhile emphasizing hypothetical clutch power, VS simply putting more build resources into not letting them go to shit in the first place.
That said, the people who operate in a pure white room DPS scenario for "win more" optimizing are equally unhinged. A minor nod to "clutch" power is often enough to make a build far more resilient and put the brakes on an encounter that might otherwise be a fail deadly spiral, so much so that it's ridiculous not to. Blitz and class abilities oriented in this direction come to mind: they can often enable more damage and assertiveness by teammates with an injection of courage via CC or resilience. The downside in trying to use such abilities is that they're often highly variable in performance depending on teammates' initiative, and I don't think it's unfair to arrive at the conclusion that you can't really trust rando teammates to make the best use of them.
In a way I agree but in others I dont.
Often those who use clutch builds often help create those clutch situations by their very build.
The revolver/speed build and invisible builds are good examples.
The revolver build can't put out enough ranged fire to help form the base of fire and if no one else can compensate the team can get overrun ... At which point the speed kicks in and they can kite enemies and shoot them for quite some time. They weakened their team but once the team went down this is perhaps the best build to clutch.
The invisible builds utilize speed and strategic stealth and tend to be running around the map but where they usually aren't is near the party. This leaves 3 fighting and it's easier to get overwhelmed. If the build is fast enough they can clutch without too much difficulty running and hiding.
my favorite thing about the tide games is just making new builds that i feel are genuinely mine
ive looked up build guides and tried youtuber builds sure but it'll never feel the same as making a build that i can call my own even if its probably one someone's come up with before it still just feels like, "look at this cool build i made on my own without a guide or anything"
build crafting is just one of my favorite things in any game and personally i just could never follow meta because it just takes away so much in my opinion
This is one of the main reasons I really don’t like making build videos. I enjoy finding my own builds and want to encourage others to do the same, and I don’t want others to feel pigeonholed into running a specific build because “I said so”
Hard-metas are bad, because they limit creativity. Before the class rework and PS nerfs in Darktide I used to play veteran with headhunter (3 tap version) and a shovel in regular damnation runs, since the shovel didn't have enough cleave to make high-intensity fun, so I opted for regular t5. Shovel has great mobility, but you can't handle hordle like at all. Even though I could very well handle myself during a fight in regular damnation, people would leave lobbies when they saw my shovel, because 95% of vets used the same weapon, so why risk it with a shovel maniac.
The game is in a decent state. Shovel is still not a horde beast, but it did get significant buffs, it's mediocre at everything, bad at nothing. I'm just happy kantrael XI is no longer meta, because I wish carpal tunnel on no-one.
Thanks for the video.
They really just ought to make it automatic. For the sake of people's wrists and fingers. I play tide games with my mouse's autoclicker which makes light spam less taxing, I can't imagine people without that who then have to trigger finger a gun to use it well. One shudders to imagine what chronic and sustained cruelty they endure...
I only use the meta to look for new interesting builds I might enjoy. I generally shape my builds around the general idea of the meta while keeping a personal touch. With that being said, I find a lot of meta builds extremely uncomfortable, because they try to minmax something specific while neglecting the rest, or simply too focused on a playstyle I dislike. Basically, what you have to know about the meta if you want to play Tide games is that you should use it to build something fun for you (another use might be if you want to explore a new class and to experiment with what's considered good for it). On the whole, playing the meta is not bad per se, it's just that people who develop an unhealthy obsession over it tend to make it cringe.
I find a lot of people do that too. Meta weapons are meta for their strengths but also because they just feel really good and satisfying to use. Because of this we usually see a lot of meta weapons across all difficulties, but less of the same meta builds as the difficulty rises as people get good enough to experiment with their builds.
4:23 - "Partially because FatShark tends to overdo it in the nerf department sometimes"
By the Emperor you're not joking.
I always say, FatShark doesn't adjust numbers and wait to see, they grab a power hammer and beat it until its unrecognizable. So when people want something already strong to be buffed even more, I'm like shhhh "the great lidless eye of FatShark will notice, and you don't want that!"
I suspect this is the first tide game for many of them and they don't know what they are dealing with haha.
"Emperor bless this ravaged recon lasgun."
People forget easily as well that Meta is not only changing but they have to be discovered first as well.
I still remember early days of Darktide before this new update during the early release days when people were saying Revolver sucked and the Lasgun and Plasma gun was the best weapon for Veteran.
I started using Revolver simply because it was the closest thing to a Bolt Pistol we have in this game. Then I got the Handcannon trait and started popping heads easily. Then words started to spread that Revolver was better than people thought if they get the Handcannon trait and spec into high Crit chance builds. It went from "This gun sucks" to "It is Meta" once people started learn a bit more about build the gun and a bit more self control when it came to ammo.
First time I didn't even look at the revolver. Just somehow didn't appeal to me. Then I got one with crucian roulette and hand cannon from melk and decided to give it a go. Safe to say it's one of my main stay weapons for handling and accuracy alone. Cutting a group of pox to pieces then quick draw the revolver to take out a sniper in a damn near instant never gets old. Being able to take out crushers with it is just the icing on top
Another in-depth and rounded insight on the topics of Tide. I'm curious to hear your thoughts more conversationally, not to the devils-advocate extent, but in contrast!
PS; let's see that reverse difficulty meta, more insights I'd love to see!
well there is still a hard meta in vermentide as swift slaying is basically a trait you run on at least 90% of the guns
yeah the melee trait meta is pretty set in stone but at least that’s just one part of a build. opportunist is pretty good on some melees, ranged can be pretty loose, and you can generally swap around charm and trinket traits freely.
honestly the one trait that i consider meta 100% of the time is barkskin on necklaces
I wouldn’t necessarily call swift slaying hard meta as there are some weapons that can use other traits better. Barskin though is what I’d call hard meta, no other reason to use anything other than that
@@jtcLIVE i totally on barskin being a hard meta mostly because the other options are not worth it enough. Even though on weapons (not guns as I wrote previously) the main reason why other traits, apart from opportunist, aren't used is that they don't really provide anything interesting and many times they are difficult to activate not fit any weapon in particular, so you can't even build around it. Changing the traits is something I wish they really did to vermentide, it could take not too much effort, but the impact would be enormous.
appreciate that you’re still calling it barskin despite it all dog bless
Glad the Darktide ‘meta’ isn’t as powerful as VT meta
Barkskin cough
Swift slaying cough
Darktide there aren’t really any universal things that you just run cause it’s the best by far
Stub revolver
meta is an anagram of team, mate and meat. i think this really says a lot about society
Actually, it's an acronym.
Most
Effective
Tactic
Available
IMO a player shouldn't care that much about Meta in any player-skill-based PvE games, unless you wish to compete with other people in forms of something like speedrunning. In the pure PvE context, any build or playstyle that allows you to enjoy the game, find satisfaction and have fun is YOUR Meta.
If your build lets you press one button and wipe out all enemies on the map instantly, is it strong? Is it Meta? Absolutely. Is it fun, though? That depends. Fun and satisfaction isn't composed solely of winning.
We are in the onslaught recon lasgun meta now.
Many softer metas increase replayability. Where as hard metas force you into one lane of gameplay.
I really like to play the Eviscerator MkXV (with Zealot) so much that I feel like it's not worth it playing something else as melee, even though I would like to change it up.
Can someone recommend something else? Is the "devil's claw" Mk4 also worth the try? I would run it with a flamer as a horde-control melee build
Love melee speed Atrox Mk4 Axe, run nothing but light attacks on that with Fury of the Faithful + Momentum and you destroy everything including Crushers and Maulers
Agree with you about Evis Zealot. With the bless gain cleave on hit it become so OP against every enemies type even with monstrosities and deamonhost. Even with High-Intensity shock troops gaunlet on Damnation I just dash left and right and cleave everything.
I agree with other guy the tac axes are surprisingly fun and satisfying to use on zealot, coming from someone who avoided them. They're definitely "off-meta" because of damage, but sprinting around the map towards every enemy and asking, "Will it blend?" is just plain neuron-activating fun.
Other good stuff besides Heavy Chainsword are
MkXIIIg Chainsword (quicker little brother to MkXV Evis with more versatility)
MkIII Knife (massive speed and evasion, crits, crits, crits. both marks are good, honestly)
MkIX Heavy Sword (kinda just feel like a boss using this one)
Love me the Heavy Sword, but I switched out to that axe I spoke about earlier since the Mk 9 has no armour damage at all so you'd be reliant on your ranged weapon@@nontologicalbeing
It's a bit of work to get, since you really need the level 4 blessing. But the new mk6 knife with Haymaker is really fun, you sacrifice a good chunk to the mk3's knife armor pen to deal with said knife's one weakness of rager patrols, might want to get uncanny strike or ruthless backstab to compensate. A neat little alternative to the standard bleed knife build
I like how the characters are nicer to each other than the players.
i like it when most if not all weapons are meta, i hate it when youre trying to squeeze every drop of efficiency though
HardMeta: multiple Ogryns for KarnakHardMode.
hardmeta, 4 ogryns for every mission :P
may be more or less obvious to people depending on their skill level but i have never once seen a competent AND toxic player on darktide. i have put a lot of thought and hours into darktide so the only people that are left who are better than me are extremely humble and focused individuals. unsanitary mindsets never last long in this game.
Some things are still overtuned to the point where I just want to leave when I queue into. Multiple plasma shout vets, a trauma staff Psyker nuking the entire map, people who only spam smite and force you to babysit them as you attack stationary enemies that cant fight back etc.
I dont get mad at people for running these builds but it does get lame to constantly see the same few setups after awhile.
You could be running a match with all lvl 30s running their respected meta and lose, and later run a match with all mid lvl players and win.
Being perceptive, implementing target prioritization, and using teamwork is arguably more important than running the meta. The meta doesn't make you good; YOU make you good. You kind of voiced the same sentiment at 6:20
Metas do however help quite a bit, however they shouldn't be seen as a crutch to stop learning, nor should it be seen at the only way to play.
I have a rule for myself that I cannot use the same weapon on two different builds at the same time and have to switch which build I play after at least three or four wins. Since I have 5 characters with 5 builds per character I am always using different weapons and builds whenever I play. It keeps the game feeling fresh in spite of the 3000 hours I sunk into the vermintide games and the 1000+ I've sunk in Darktide. Yeah, I have some meta builds with meta weapons, but the game play loop in the tide games can get pretty stale if you never mix it up and it means that if one of the weapons I'm using gets nerfed I don't suffer for that nerf because I can either switch it out already adjusted to the new weapon or easily adapt to the new functionality rather than struggling because my main weapon isn't performing how it used to and I don't have any experience using anything else.
I have a friend I play with who will always pick one weapon and stick with it no matter what. When the original power sword got nerfed he spent several weeks endlessly failing because he couldn't adjust to the new power sword and had never adjusted to playing anything else.
Best meta is Vet players without ammo passive begging for more ammo then dying shortly after getting some.
Free ammo after team rescues you
very well said. I'm running so many different builds and loadouts on my Veteran alone and all work on auric. Can't be bothered to run around with a plasma gun or Columnus Mk5 anymore
You're missing the biggest "meta" weapon, the Columnus Infantry Autogun. Higher damage, stagger, and fire rate than most other guns, insane with crits, deletes even crushers with just a little bit of rending. And it's busted across all three human classes. Yet, this is still "soft meta", I still regularly clear Auric missions with other guns.
Stagger is pretty average. Consolidation is that whatever you point at is dead, the best cc
Whenever I get a start to get a lil bored of playing a class I switch up my weapons and talents, trying new things and weapons I haven't tried before. I end up finding fun in weapons that I've slept on. I recommend any player explore the huge variety of weapons and builds to get the most enjoyment :) (a surpluss of money and plasteel certainly helps lol). Learning how different talents and weapons support the team will let you play anything you like while still claiming victory! (And there's no shame in playing lower difficulties to learn!)
If you'll pardon the turn of phrase: Based Tide Twink.
Bro just threw so much shade on the mgxii launch lasgun
There is no meta. I've been playing Grai Braced Auto + Heavy Sword Zealot and winning back to back Auric Maelstroms. But an idiot like Tanner Lindberg is going to tell me that I'm bad, my build is bad and I should feel bad because I'm not using a Columnus IA.
If you are good at FPS mechanics and are good at dealing with what Darktide throws at you, you can do whatever you want.
I never said you should feel bad lmao. But did you ever stop to think it maybe had something to do with the 3 paragraph long comment you left riddle with insults? And when i said come play a few games with me and prove your build doesnt suck you mysteriously stopped responding. Funny how that part isnt mentioned the fact you went out of your way to be a dick head. Got called out and you know. The fact your on someone elses video bad mouthing me not even being entirely honest about why speaks volumes to your maturity level. And does, in fact, prove you are an idiot.
Also, there is a meta in every game ever. The fact you think there isn't a meta in darktide really does show just far into your own delusionals you are
Yeah some of tanner's takes are pretty bad and he acts really harsh sometimes to people who just ask a simple question in his comments
I always impose a challenge on myself where I use the worst weapon, and do my best to make it work effectively. In a fighting game I'd always pick the weakest character, and it's always satisfying when I beat another person who chose a meta pick. At that point it's also undeniable that you're a good player, as you can't be dismissed as someone who's abusing a broken build/weapon/character.
With Darktide I almost feel like there's personal metas too, where certain weapons just feel better to use and seem to work better for some players than others. For instance, in my play group we have a guy that makes the bolter do the Emperor's holy work, and no one else can and often gets frustrated with it.
People in DT community talk a lot about meta builds, but we all know what the real meta is. It's ogryn's rock, because it's meta of fun.
I don't know if I've ever used meta the only thing I think that I used that could be meta is my bolter marksman setup.
I agree heavy on the point of some people using the meta as a reason to be mean to other players. Certainly there are some things I look at myself and think "yea this set up is not great, I'm not skilled enough to use it" and simply don't, seeing other people using builds they're seemingly not doing great at running can be frustrating but ultimately working as a team and helping them get comfortable trying new things even for just one match is the nature of the game.
If people try to pigeonhold other players from experimenting because in that moment they're "not good enough" then we're affectively gatekeeping the learning curve as well as hundreds of hours from potential long term players.
I've seen a lot of people ask what the actual long term goal/incentive of playing Tide games are. The dialogue and banter has always been one reason, the immersive world, great combat too, but its always stood out to me the factor that you present: getting good enough to use whatever I want. I might love the Plasma Gun more than any other ranged in the game and it may be extremely strong to boot, but branching out and trying all kinds of combinations is a big draw of the game. For example: experimenting with Scriers Gaze and Disrupt destiny + kantrael laz pistol and dueling sword has been some of my most enjoyable runs and a build id otherwise not considered as I usually play Psyker least. Now its one of my favourite builds and has led to many maelstrom clutches
If something takes considerable amount of skill to work then there's a good chance that it's not really in the meta, because actual meta provides good damage at little costs, which means you don't have to perform a series of gymnastics to get it working.
For example, Columnus IAG is meta because it has such insane DPS that you just point at rager herds and they stop being a problem anymore. Plasma gun is meta because you just throw horde management out of the window and delete everything that's remotely close to your crosshair. Martyrdom is not meta, you need to deliberately sabotage yourself to get the buff and the buff isn't even that great. Shotgun is not meta, you need a lot of setup and the stars to align to make it worth while, and it's a bug, and it's still outclassed by pretty much everything.
Also gunpsyker with SG and DD isn't an experiment, it's literally the current psyker meta because it provides insane amount of killing power while requiring little finesse as staff psykers do.
@@KanaKaname “experimenting” was used more in respect to that I don’t usually look up builds I use while making them. I know gunpsyker in concept is very good, but I enjoy learning how each of the nodes/skills/blessings mesh for myself. So when I made my SG and DD build I was personally experimenting. Psyker is my least played character too, so it was a lot of fun stumbling my way into a build I really enjoy for them. Too I don’t run that build as a gunner per se. I play it much more like how I play zealot; crit kantrael lazpistol for popping important targets then spending 70%-80% of my time with my dueling sword out. Maybe that IS how gunpsyker is played, that’s cool. But I personally enjoyed experimenting in my own matches than following how it’s “meant” to be played and set up in order to be meta. I more so followed what felt cool and happened upon something people regard as “really good”. I didn’t think crit kantrael lazpistol built with infernus and +toughness on crit kill was necessarily a meta setup when I did it but it felt nice. If the community regards it as meta then cool, but I still experimented. And that’s much of the fun of the game, and I imagine much of the fun for casual players who also (generalizing probably) don’t always look up their builds.
Also yea Plasma gun is undeniably meta, it feels amazing but it could be tuned down a little bit.
I've never intentionally followed any metas in this game and got along just fine with my own builds even on the hardest Auric missions so I feel meta in this game is just more about personal choice and what you like running more than anything
Hm, I like popping heads with lasgun (Mk Ia to be specific).
I see how autogun vet is more versatile than lasgun sniper due to autogun being more universal and lasgun being not nearly as effective at clearing hordes and me having to use grenades for that (and thus being useless against Maulers and Crushers; or picking Krack grenades and not pulling my weight against hordes).
Basically have to depend on somebody other picking Maulers, or stunning/killing hordes depending on what grenade I choose...
No matter what i pick as a veteran for example.. i always think, yeh.. its fun, but the plasma is better. Whenever i play the ogryn, i try to use different guns and builds.. but nothing beats the Kickback.. everytime i pick something else, its kinda lacking. Also.. when i pick the nuke, i almost never need it. No large groups or clutch moments.. but the second i decide to pick the rock or the box, there are tons of situations where the nuke would have been perfect, or even saved the run..
I prefer the Graia Braced Autogun over the Aggripina, but yeah, the Braced autoguns are in a good place right now. I should maybe try build a maxed aggripiina though to try now that you mentioned it.
I see no issues adhering to soft meta as in choosing the best weapons to use, though I avoid the Hard metas of say everlasting shroudfield as it'll be removed by FS as it's an actual bug -if it hasn't already been removed.
However I do like chain weapons so I tend to run with those even when they're not optimal gamewise. The new chainsword is in a good place right now though so that's what I prefer. I still have a collection of god rolled axes to fall back on if I feel the need.
The Agri Braced is up there with the plasma gun for me in turning Darktide into a point and click adventure. All you need it a decently high rolled one with maybe a Flak dmg perk anything else is just bonus. After that you just run around blazing away, no need to brace really the only time you need to think about shooting is when something is 25+ meters and you need to either crouch or tap fire. The high level of Punchthrough just makes it so easy to use.
Only downside of the weapon is its firing pattern is either a cone shooting normally that gets flattened closer to a horizontal line firing braced so any of the headshot talents lose effectiveness because you should be aiming center mass at anything beyond 10m.
@@BuckRodgers3 Good imput!
I can pick off snipers with the Graia if braced now that I've gotten used to it. It takes more of a god roll though for both high stability and damage for it to be good at doing that.
I'll give the Aggrippina another go though, to see gow far I can push the envelope on it too. Building these and trying out are fun to me and a motivation to keep playing. :)
@@thunder2434 It does take a while before you get used to the Braced autoguns firing pattern.
Next on my list is trying out the Agri Infantry auto, for all that the Colmnus 5 is the meta pick it just doesn't feel good to me due to the lack of punchthrough.
@@BuckRodgers3 I'm going from Autopistol that I was performing long range surgery with and emergency hoardclear with but it's a bit weak in damage, to Braced Autoguns to get more damage.
The Graia braced is the most nimble and most similar of the autopistol so it was a natural transition. The Columnus feels like a downgrade as a middle ground. The Aggri is closer to how the bigger guns are.
I may work my way up to the Aggri braced over time.
Narrow corridor (most of Darktide), your team in the middle, other sides - 3+ crushers, trappers, maulers, flamers and snipers very close (and just one bomber!). Meta veterans with recon lasguns will just die. On high difficulty preffered diffirent classes with diffirent weapons. (Or a skilled players - i never forget 4 psykers on damnation hight intence game where everything were oneshoted without chances). Some meta don't work without proper blessings (3 lvl ogryn sticky bomb for a granade launcher for example - boss stunlock).
For most people, meta is whats most broken per patch. To me that kind of “meta” is for people who are bad at the game seeking easy way out by exploiting what produces biggest number. To me i like to use what i enjoy til i master it. Then run that on Auric. That gives me a satisfaction of winning the game in my own terms.
Meta not only changes as you increase the difficulty of the game, it also changes as you improve as a player.
The weapon that is most emblematic of this imo is the Mk4 Chainaxe which was considered so bad you couldn't take it for a long time (and yes, i know it's very strong now, still underrated somehow tho XD), all the while I and some other players found that by optimizing our gameplay we could take advantage of it's powerful latching attacks making it at times the best weapon for the job. Also some weapons benefit from talents with a high skill requirements like Martyrdom more than others to reach breakpoints consistently or to create synergies between attack speed and buff-on-hit blessings. Simply put I find people who call out others for not using the meta are really showing their ignorance, rather than knowledge, of the game.
I agree to some point. It's true that the game has some sort of "soft meta", but the is a huge problem: CZcams videos with titles like "this build will let you win everything" or "this build let's you win hardest difficulty" and then explain nothing but how they play. And imho, there resides the harm: not everyone has the same playstyle, and thus the build may not suit a lot of people. Or the build is the result of hundreds of hours of gameplay, trial and error, and expecting instant results is naive. And when people try the build and follow the "advice" from these videos and the logical outcome punches them in the face like a brickwall, they put the blame into the team.
Other videos blatantly lie to the wiever by telling an especific build is not inly viable, but one of the best (if not the best) but the part they omit on purpose is that the build works because they use mods that are pure cheats (like having infinite dodges), and without those mods the build is a recipe for disaster that will likely lead to a TPK.
My advice to newbies: is not "bad" to stay in lower difficulties until you find your playstyle and your combination of weapons and keystones that suits you. I have more than 600 hours and I still have fun trying to find new builds that I find fun to play.
In your gameplay, how do you see stats? Is it a mod or like a setting?
I like dual daggers more than sword and dagger, even though sword and dagger is objectively better.
I have a lot more practice on dual daggers and therefore am better with them than sword and dagger.
When it comes to Darktide I was running Martyrdom Zealot waaaay before it was cool (and arguably bad) lol
i love a game where i select my guns based off of how good they sound
Most Effective Tactics Available.
In V2 i went out of my way to play with every weapon until i got 5k kils each on them in cataclysm.(using the mod for counting kills) My conclusion was fatshark was really good at designing weapons in game. Some weapons took more skill and a bit more time to learn but all were useful. Currently in Darktide i just play whatever i feel like playing weapon wise. I just find it annoying when someone is finally putting on big boy pants to play auric and want to try to direct the team. For me when i see someone playing something i don't get i sit back and learn or laugh depending how the perform.
Meta this, meta that,
Have you meta girl yet?
Darktide is one of the few games I've played that is full of soft metas. It's one of the most balanced games I've ever played at this current time. The crafting system sucks ass, yeah, but so what. I'm currently arguing with some CZcamsr about shotguns. He thinks they are garbage, and he's wrong. He just doesn't know how to use them. I love this game.
Kantreal Combat shotgun is the best sniper in the game.
@@brandenpedersen5127 I can't tell if you are trolling here, but obviously this goes to the hand cannon or one of the kantrael las rifles. But as far as versatility? Yeah, the Dragon's Breath is up there.
Overdo it in the nerf department? Yea… rip V1D lasgun and antax brutal momentum
Speaking of the recon lasguns, does anyone know of a good build for one?
I'm interested in giving Infernus and Dumdum on the blessings a go, as I think the combination sounds like fun, but I haven't tried it yet so I can't say for sure how well it works.
Darktide has a good soft meta, with many viable builds. However the grind and rng for crafting materials makes experimenting costly and frustrating
I don't expect my teammates to play the meta, but I expect them to be decent and to fulfill their role. I've only called out a fire shotgun veteran that wasn't fulfilling his class role because his build couldn't.
There are no class roles. At best there are build roles. Everyone can do everything and any inability to accomplish something is that person's own failure.
All classes can kill monstrosities in 15 seconds or less solo. All classes can kill crushers in 1-3 hits melee or ranged. All classes can pick off trappers, flamers. All classes can horde clear. All classes can clear snipers.
This isnt an MMO, the only role is teammate.
Have never been called out for using whatever weapon. I only play pub games and I see people running various kits on Auric Damnation. Experienced players perform well with anything mainly because they're not acting selfishly and know how to play as a team. I'd encourage everyone to try out all weapons and play the ones that are fun and feel good. In the long term, you will figure out the pros and cons of each weapon and will understand which nodes you´should skill for that particular kit you run.
Gun psyker is the only build I've seen get flamed consistently, and that's mainly for somehow managing to peril themselves to death
This person sounds like the Watchmojo voice
for a PvE game this community is surprisingly toxic to casual players who don't take the game and their build too seriously or just find suboptimal builds fun. Just this week I found a small darktide guide channel dedicated to berating anyone who uses what they didn't consider meta and other channels who promote suboptimal builds, the guy would start recording only to yell at under performing perk nodes and weapons for an hour straight.
Man, just avoid those channels, some people are just sick. Fortunately I've never heard or read in-game anyone berating someone for their build. Other than the typical squeaky kid, I've seen only call outs due to skill but they're usually in a moderate and helpful tone.
There is not really some "Hard meta" like you said right now, maybe the Colomnus MKV at best and it depends a lot around stats and blessing you got. As long as you know how to use it it's very hard to find a "bad" weapon, the only one i think about for a very long time was the Agripinaa Mk IX Headhunter but since they change it recently it's really hard to put it into the trashbin if you have a good talent tree.
People love to throw out the Meta this meta that. But whenever you ask someone where you can find these "Meta" builds there is always silence. I could make a "Meta" build for every weapon combo, it ain't about whatever weapon you want to play, the problem usually arrives when people go into games with talent setups that makes no sense.
That’s there argument, that hard meta usually is short lived and not the goal of balance changes.
They need to rework a lot of things for my taste.
Right now there is 3 types or weapon. Good against unarmored good against armor and híbrids.
Both the hordes and armored enemies are not strong enough so híbrids weapons are the best right now.
Some blessings are busted some are trash some need another blessing to have his full potencial. And the crafting sistem does not help with experimentación.
About meta I don't have a clue because I am a ogryn main but I miss some boss that doesn't shout like a shoty.
And the combat knife need a nerf in general it gives too much mobility.
Great vid jtc, most people overlook the other end of the conversation and im glad you touched on it. Can you do a video on specific things that are overtuned or counterintuitive, there has been alot of talk about smite and shout lately.
I’m considering it but not sure if I want to have people come at me with pitchforks and torches yet LMAO
@@jtcLIVE someone asked about how to find out the specific details on certain things, the wiki wasnt updated, and they gave an example like "how many targets does smite hit?" the specific answer was "too many" LUL jokes aside, your great at coming at that type of stuff from all sides, ive never felt the need to grab my pitchfork 💚
OK we need a build for combat axe because it good but I don't think its touching metta level unless I missing something. Mk iii knife I think be a better spot, but then again, I crazy. must be something I am missing.
Once you get good enough with it, especially melee combat, you don't need a META build or META team composition, or God-tier weapons. This is true of every game, but I feel even more so in Darktide. It can punish you of course, but it's more about positioning and game sense than Time-To-Kill and such. Sometimes you enter Crazytown, and the spawns become ridiculous to the point that the game feels broken, but even then, you can push through with good game sense, ammo conservation (never enough), ect...
Plus, if you have a Smiter (Palpatine Psycher), the game becomes even more straight forward. Or a Hobo Zealot (knives, backstab, stealth, speed), who can pretty much solo the game.
I'm talking Auric Maelstrom, the highest difficulty. I've seen all sorts of team composition, builds, and player skills, and it's all doable. Some builds will make it faster (killing monstrosity, ragers, unyielding or carapace quickly), safer, but skills, game sense, that's what works, and you can't really compensate a lack of skill or awareness with god-tier weapons or a META build you don't know how to use.
@tanner where you at?
I’m here because I read Melta and not Meta smh. Wish darktide had proper guardsmen special weapons.
The only Meta I want for this game is for people to learn how to react while facing different types of enemies, knowing movement, rotations and maps. Cause, Jesus Christ. Some of these people are so used to people doing the jobs for them that they end up not knowing wtf to do when alone. Ended up having a 40 minute game on Heresy threat. Those people are something to behold when they were left alone.
Like what I tell to people. It's OKAY to go back to easier difficulty to learn the game. Not jumping into the pits of hell and risking the experience of others.
Recently had a 1hr game in Malice, even the bots would have been less frustrating, it's one of the few times I really told the guys to play in a lower difficulty. They were lvl 15 to 20, felt someone had been carrying them since they barely used any melee and dodging mechanics.
When I play with a friend of mine who is still a noob for Tide mechanics I make sure we stay in Uprising 'til he gets the basics, even in Malice he had a really bad time.
I find games less fun as time goes on, maybe it has somewhat to do with this phenomenon?
Dark tides meta become the following :play what you want because when the only thing left is aurics and you even find those boring the game is essentially pointless.
There will only be a meta if you bother to watch videos like this or read about it. I personally just play the game. It's pretty easy even on damnation. The auric missions are challenging as they are relentless.
As long as I can smash heretics and chaos it's all good
I think i am Ok DT player with mostly standart damnation and, for example, i hate braced autoguns and never use them. Crafted few good rolls, but meh, i can be more accurate with twinlinked stubbers)
Buuuut recon lasguns really bad Q_Q. Imo its a heresy maximum.
I mean I unashamedly run hardcore veteran meta. Always have, always will. Its definitely carried me.
gdamn seconded
You run those Noobie Krak grenades don't ya :p
@@bigbobrossa8524 the meta is the grenade directly above *poop out ammo anytime a gunner is killed* aura so no
One can only wonder why Bobby wrote that comment. Does he not like the meta? Does he think himself so superior to everyone to the point that, he takes an innocuous comment and sees a chance to flex his tide skillz?
It’s perplexing
@@bigbobrossa8524 Mark 4 power sword, La lasgun, full krak grenade/grenade regen/revive shout/support veteran loadout. Anything that I can't annihilate with krak grenades, power sword, or the lasgun will get obliterated by my team who I make sure is always up and running.
Running the meta doesnt really matter because the game is currently still too easy for high skilled players.
If playing DWONS+ in VT2, there definitely is a meta, and not running it will make your team suffer as a result.
Meta? Yeah I'd love a Multi-Melta...
Wait what do you mean no Melta? ... oh Meta. What ever kills the gooderer I guess
The meta is not to type so much in text chat good lord.
This ain't Second Life get your APM up.
for new players：juest use you ear！and kill as fast as you can. thats it
4 ogryns
all rock
the only true meta
Darktide is just too easy, you can play any mid level build and still clear AM in QP pugs.
Strangely over complicated for a 4 letter acronym
New Meta: Do not go into Auric Damnation / Maelstrom if you cannot survive for more than 10 seconds - followed of course by leaving when you permanently go down and need to be rescued. Sounds like I'm joking but I see it all the time. Pick someone up, 10 seconds later, the noise of a player going down. It's ok to learn the game and move up slowly.
TL;DR - OP thinks they can gatekeep new players trying out harder difficulties instead of getting a premade team of experienced players via Discord or having friends.
@@PlebNCAt no point does this comment say not to try higher difficulties how did you derive this from that.
@@squirrelstar051 The part where you say "don't join if you can't survive for more than 10 seconds", which means you're gatekeeping inexperienced/new players by attempting to forbid them from attempting to try the higher difficulties.
Think squirrel, think. How can they find out if they can survive more than 10 seconds if you won't let them join in the first place?
@@PlebNC Well they should see if you could last 10 seconds of Auric Damnation first.
That’s like being new to the game and play Expert on L4D2. If they’re competent on the difficulty before it, then They’re competent for the difficulty above.
Having a Malice player jump into Auric Maelstrom is stupid, when they should test themselves for Damnation. Also the OP isn’t gatekeeping, he’s just politely calling them bad and suggests they should gitgud on other difficulties instead of skipping primary school towards university when they’re not even that good.
@@cekojuna6930 Well it across, at least to me, as gatekeeping and was driven by concern to lessen the likelihood of high difficulty lobbies becoming hostile to players who just want to try out the higher difficulties.
A Rock
Comment for the algorithm
*the point is moot???
Ye meta ain't worth shit in a pve game that doesn't even have a scoreboard. For pvp games it's no longer a matter of should u run it or not it becomes mandatory at the highest levels of competition unfortunately and even in pve when u got actual scoreboard it matters if it decides whether to take a player with u or not obviously all factors that don't mean shit in driptide
As with any game with a meta, elitist A-holes who think it's their place to tell others, be it new or even experienced players, how they should play the game, are the actual problem.
Now, I have no problem with people using metas. I personally don't see the fun in using it day in and day out. But there is nothing worse than seeing some cocky elitist tall down on people and saying the team is "throwing" running off on their own to try and prove something, dying, berating teammates for "not being good enough" or anything of that varying degree, and then leaving.
I fancy myself Deep Rock Galatic. Of course there are elitist there too from time to time. For the most part though, you will have new player and older player interactions that are informational and friendly. There is, of course, the indoctrination that goes on the longer the green beard stays around the grey beard, but we will the RICH-ual out of this discussion for now.
Experienced players should be willing to answer questions and give some advice in regards to playing the game and things they might be doing wrong that are harmful to their own experience. For instance, thinking that a perk works one way when it doesn't or using items that don't interact well or common mistakes that lead to going down. However, what should not be done is telling them how to play the game and that unless it is meta, they are playing wrong.
Be a good gamer, and have fun at the end of the day. Might even make a new friend. Used to sherpa Destint raids all the time, and I've met a lot of people over the nearly 9 years I played before stopping.
Metas a crutches for those who aren't absolute Sigmaroids at slapping rats and heretics🗿
(is joke)
Yes there is Not really a meta-defining build in dark tide.
There is only mitigation of possible obstacles.
And absolutely garbage tier weapons
IM LOOKING AT YOU OGRYN POWER MAUL
The "skill is more important than build" argument falls apart in many maelstroms where you NEED to bring a strong build that can handle the current modifiers or you WILL be overrun. Getting tired of having to deal as much damage as the rest of my team combined and still having way more threats around than there should be
That's the whole point of auric/maelstroms though. They aren't meant to be part of the gameplay loop for the average playerbase but serve as proving grounds for peak performance gear.
"Bricked" and off-meta loadouts perform perfectly well on damnation as long as you have a good foundation in gamesense.
Darktide current plasma shouting veteran SUCKS. Don't get me wrong, veteran, plasma or shout ability are not bad by any means. Bad thing is veteran players tend to run this build LITERALLY ANY mission. They don't think what team needs, they don't concider mission specifics or anything else.
Whole video is a big nothing burger
as a sidenote to things that are meta in the context of things that encourage you to get good at the game, i would also encourage new players to not become too reliant on an overabundance of "CC" (smite, shields, ect) to carry them through games as this kind of playstyle encourages NOT engaging with the melee/shooting systems and will stunt your growth (and potentially your team's growth) as a player, in addition they are SLOW and not favored by high end players who would much rather you actually do damage and kill things so the mission can be cleared in a timely fashion.