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"Main DPS" is a BAD term. Here's why.
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- čas přidán 15. 08. 2024
- I stream almost every day over at / zajef77
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Timestamps:
0:00 Intro
0:28 How DPS is used in other games
1:12 Main reason why I don't like it
1:35 Combat system in Genshin
4:47 About quick-swap teams
5:22 About Off-field characters
6:55 On-field buffer
9:25 Main DPS isn't necessary in Genshin
11:25 4 star "main dps" characters
12:36 5 star "main dps" characters
13:51 4 star teams
16:33 Team roles perception by general community
16:59 About investment differences
19:38 The alternative
22:34 Taser example
24:05 TLDW
24:50 Doc sheet and twitch
25:25 Outro
"Who's your main DPS?"
Sucrose taser: Yes.
It's kinda complicated-
YES. -a sucrose main
"I make everyone's dps to MY dps"
-Certain shy psychopathic assistant alchemist with green hair
Sucrose Taser is criminally underrated (outside of TC-related communities). I don't think the greater community understands that not only is it a top tier team, it's also one of the easiest teams to play
@@finebook281 The greater community cannot play a team without a healer, that is why Zhongli is so popular and Kokomi taser sees more use than other taser variants.
I’m glad Zajeff brought up the difference in investment into 1 vs 4 characters, at earlier ARs it’s definitely a dilemma one can have
I’m so glad too, I took off a couple months due to burn out and now that I’ve come back I can see how bad my account is I hyper invested too much into certain units and left my supports to the way side. All in all now I’m hurrying trying to level up and gear my supports because I realize now how important they are. Moderately investing into 4 units is so much more beneficial than hyper investing into one, not only that but it opens so much more team options since a lot of teams share the same cores.
Yup At early game my childe was benched as he was dogshit and i went with diluc but after AR45-50 Diluc got benched and childe revived as i had good gears and a national team for him
@@Ghost-uw2cy yea but also keep in mind not to go over the top with each of them you can settle for decent
@@ashy5808 clilde gaming lessgo, my favorite character to play - killing hordes with him feels just so goooooood...
Building teams is way better
I believe the "main dps" term was adopted at launch mainly because we didn't have enough resources to spread evenly (events actually needed resin to gain rewards), farming scales with AR level and some characters could carry your team while invested with the bare minimum amount of support. It kinda made sense in context, but is very outdated indeed.
Was gonna say the same thing, but also add,
1) transformative reactions were ~2.5 times weaker and scaled with char lvl (higher investment req)
2) less open world chest, less quest; less resources, less AR, longer time at AR lvl caps.
2.5) no easy find gadgets, condensed/fragile resin, resin cap 120... lots of resources grind nerfs since launch. So investment choices at launch/early game was more important then now/late game.
Yea, i had invested a decent bit in jean. Got cucked by tanky substats. But it basically made jean unkillable and she still did an alright amount of damage.
events needed resin?? damn
@@themoetzilla ikr?
@@themoetzilla yep, it happened twice, the elemental crucible in 1.0 and Unreconciled Stars in 1.1, they got too much complains and changed to resinless ever since.
my biggest mistake is not discovering your channel earlier
Same my life would have been so much better
we need to get Zajef to 100k so more people see his guides
@@ehwithaquestionmark facts i keep referencing hyperbloom raiden and thundering furry and people don't understand SMH
YEP me too.
@@yungdumbnbroke6117 omg me tooo
i love how zajef is explaining genshin info, which the chat is on a completely different wavelength OMEGACUMJESTIC
The chat is either Bavardage -ing or talking about balls or something
@@skullzyy22 what is bavardge even?
@@jeremyg2236 it's French for "chatting" and we use it as grammar police
Imagine what it would be like if Wide emotes weren't banned while he was on cam
20:55
" 3 units that's doing damage and 1 unit that buffs them"
This is such a nice wisdom, thank you zajeff
I feel like the concept of Main DPS in genshin has to do with the days of 1.0-1.4 where most players were hard capped by resources, such that hypercarry comps were more efficient. Even thougb Xingqiu does a ton of damage himself, it was better investmentwise to have a fully invested Diluc with a minorly invested Xingqiu than two equally invested Diluc/Xingqiu. Most people were doing abyss with a team of mostly level 60 characters. Now, most people already have well invested characters and they can make quick swap teams. I do think that quick swap is sort of how genshin is "meant" to be played
I love you Zajeff
I love you Freaknifethrower.
i love mr zajorf toooo
@@mighuIDV Bavardage zajorf
Joel
@@hiimapop7755 Nick
It takes a mindset shift of separating the character from the unit to lift the curtain on Genshin combat. Once you look past personality, story and aesthetics, you begin to see units as basically packages of motion values, element types, area of effect, and cooldown timers. Combat in Genshin is fundamentally you selecting these bundles, and combining and deploying them altogether like some kinda rhythm game.
If a perfect AI played Genshin we'd probably see a wild team with no set rotation and just adaptive weaving of Es NAs and Qs, to fit in as much grouping, energy gen and DPS as possible depending on the real time situation. All units, all inputs, all actively contributing to damage, all the time.
we don't have a perfect ai, but we do have speedrunners. and yeah, they basically play as you described (often see teams like ayaka + shenhe + kazuha/venti + hutao/yelan or some shit). even when it's a fixed team like international, they don't follow rotations and use the bare minimum necessary amount of dps so that there's enough energy at all times, ie. usage of xiangling's burst, childe's long range burst, and short range burst should be flexible depending on the enemy hp of the wave and not always used at full throttle
I feel like most people generally understand that though. Personality/story/aesthetics are pretty disinctly separate and irrelavant to combat and how the gameplay functions. (I guess the one exception would be the feel of playing the characters, since it's a bit of both.)
The thing is that most people don't care enough about the gameplay side (since it is rarely that demanding) to sacrifice preferences for characters based on personality/story/aesthetics in favor of pure min/maxing gameplay potential. So at the end of the day the meta in Genshin ends up being a combination of both. Figuring out how to use as many characters you like as effectively as possible.
@@Zeik56 I disagree with that. More players care about the gameplay aspect than you think.
@@maraisfan4life517 I'm not saying people don't care at all, but the number of people that ONLY care about the gameplay and don't factor in anything else when choosing characters to play/pull are undeniably and firmly in the minority. (Hell, Keqingmains is one of the most prolific meta analysis communities out there, and its not because Keqing has been remotely meta until recently.)
I'm certain even zajef would concede this, as it something that he regularly brings up when speaking of the value and power of characters.
Absolutely, it is a vast spectrum between ultracasual to speedrun approaches to Genshin, and the game never outright forces the latter. Athough many players will often drift there over time. And yeah I think as that happens, they will start separating characters vs their kit and gameplay. But even thats still structuring thinking in terms of single units. Like we have character videos and guides that are popular, which is where we often see main dps type labels. But we rarely if at all have team archetype guides, or rotation length guides, or enemy category guides, even though those are important to combat.
Its definitely understandable cos that stuff is way more toward the speedrun spectrum, plus because of the gacha and content cycle, where we focus on individual units for pull decisions. But, from a game design/TC POV, the combat loop is really playing teams, not characters. It's like how you play a whole deck of cards, but we make guides for individual cards, and not deck types.
I guess after like...2 years of Genshin you kinda start to see behind the simulation lol. Like how in any game you start to notice weird NPC lines and glitches and the immersion breaks. After hearing bouken da bouken for the Nth time you no longer see bennet, instead you see the circle of a buff, you see the cooldown timer, and you see the team energy flow. And yeah, most people don't intuitively game like this, but I think that underpins a key difference in the way general vs more TC deepdiving playerbase approaches the game, which then leads to confusions like this terminology stuff.
the editor does such a good job as making the video visually engaging. props to them!
Excellent video, my first interraction with this concept was when Kazuha started "supporting" my team by killing everything faster, than my "main dps" 🤡
the exact same thing happened to me, holding his E and everything was already dead, i didn't even have the time to switch to other units
Maybe the Main DPS were the friends we made along the way?
AHAHAHHA
Your point in bringing Mihoyo's business decision making in character balancing is great. I wanted to add some thoughts too.
I see mihoyo nerfing several times a bunch of overworld enemies at world level 1 to 6 and story battle are easy AF. For a while I've been perplexed as to why Mihoyo doesn't make actual hard enemies that have like party wipe mechanics or hit shield or lifesteal or damage reflection but instead increasing the invulnerability time because my 4* teams can already wipe everything out I don't even have content to use my built characters.
My first thought was that Mihoyo just wants to sell bigger numbers. But since I love watching new players join genshin, I noticed the game is already hard enough. They have the statistics, and noticed this game is hard for new players. But not hard in the sense that it needs high apm or inhuman reflex times, it is hard to learn about the game mechanics and how to counter them. And to tell the truth, without watching any of theory crafting videos, I would not and I don't have the time to test out a bunch of the stuff you guys perceive already as common knowledge.
I've seen plenty of casual players who joined genshin because of the story/music/art just anything BUT combat, all they do is advance in the main story quest, gain a bunch of adventure exp because of that, refuses to spend resin because this is the 1st gatcha game they play and they don't have this idea that spending the time-currency in any gatcha game is important, then gatcha (yes they spend, mihoyo need to keep them playing) on the newest characters that they can't farm the materials for, level up the world level because of the notification and rage quit/cry/gets very frustrated/gets stuck in the middle of the quest because they didn't notice the ruin hunter flies up when you use Kazuha's E and you just needed an archer to shoot it down (some of you might know who I'm talking about in this particular example lol).
Not only that, because they are content creators, they want to feel that their way of playing must be special so that it can actually attract views, their ego speaks louder and so they refuse actually use specific characters they have to counter certain mechanic. (like just using amber to shoot down the ruin hunter or using kaeya to take down hydro abyss mage's shield, simple stuff like these).
I also created a 2nd account (one of my rerolled account and doing a challenge of saving up primo for 1 C6R1 5* character) out of nostalgia for the early game and noticed a few interesting things. You get to AR 50 (World level 7, mostly unnerfed stuff) really really fast. All quests you can do really speeds up the adventure rank. So this leaves with so little time to actually farm elites for berserk set or instructor set. (I still remember those early days when I would get around 20 4* artifacts on a map wide elite hunt with friends, some of those 4* ones have the correct elemental dmg bonus with great substats too) And also farm the weekly bosses for 5* artifacts. And you are thrown into AR50 domain with 3 star artifacts and level 40 new region characters... and at best level 70 or 80 weapons... also without a healer. Man... not only you had to dodge all incoming attacks because 2 hits will kill you, the fight takes so long that it challenges your decision making so much with simple mechanics as hydro abyss mage shield restoring after certain time passes and while (pyro electro) hili archers overloads you around.
Take note that this is a challenge I imposed on myself and I'm doing fine 9* until floor 12 but most casual players have it worse. Not in the sense they don't have characters to synergize with. It is that they refuse to use characters that have synergy and can counter enemies. They don't know the simple mechanics, their party is 4 fav characters with no synergy at all (this is why they love qiqi and zhongli so much, because once they swap 1 of those 4 out for a unbreakable shield or infinite healing they feel like they won the game). They are not used to the attack pattern and can't dodge shit. And they refuse or are straight up unable to build their new region characters.
So as much as it pains me, a day 1 genshin player, to see the game mechanics so simple and easy. I've seen how these simple mechanics combined with casual playstyle can totally ruin casual player's experience. I've seen more than enough casual players who refuses to think about artifact out of SPITE of their chat/comment section keep arguing back and forth on the BIS when it is ok to just use anything in overworld/story stuff. People keep bashing their heads as to why Mihoyo keeps building ALL their story trial characters with the exact same 5 nobless pieces (same main stat and sub stats) saying "MihOyo dOSen'T kNoW hOW tO bUiLd tHeIr cHaRacTErS" and fail to realize that that is all any character needs in order to enjoy Genshin Impact's story, visuals, music, ambience. It is so obvious that Mihoyo knows about their own game's mechanics but this is off-topic.
Genshin is such a polished game, not only in the Visuals, also in character movement, music, story, and specially things that are not combat that it attracts a lot of casual players who ignore all in-game tutorials and have misleading pre-concepts of gatcha games that leads to pulling uncontrollably. So in order to cater to these new players casual tendencies (which are the majority), it only make COMPLETE business sense that they don't dare to increase game mechanics and instead lower the difficulty for new players and in order to sell higher numbers, most of the 5* characters are designed in a way that attracts the pre-conceited notion of other games that you NEED a main dps followed by their support.
Two last thing is that Hoyoverse is playing the LONG game... just like any of their other titles. One thing any long lasting gatcha game must have in consideration is the CREEP. Power creep, feature creep, visual creep, mechanic creep... every and any thing creep. Because the game can't and shouldn't be stagnant, so there must be creep, but it can't have too much creep. And since Genshin is such a ambitious project that expands over 7 years, they can't implement more than 1 new mechanic to every new boss, so their default mechanic is the stall mechanic (which is annoying af but understandable in the context Genshin has to also cater to casuals and avoid mechanic creep of dozens of bosses to come).
One proposal to this lack of game combat system mechanic-side depth that I've heard a few times and I do agree myself is the one Honkai does, the breakthrough mechanic. Because clearly world level mechanic isn't enough to satisfy both casuals (too hard for them) and hardcore (too easy for us) at the same time.
Underrated comment. Thanks for sharing
wait are we catering to people who don't want to learn how to play the game?
very insightful. I do see the divide between players who complain about how EASY this game is, and players (mostly silent ones) who have difficulty clearing story content. The matter of fact is, there rly aren't that many people who's willing to understand how the game works, or called gamers.
With the size of genshin and how widespread this game is, there will undoubtedly be a vast majority of players who haven't even played many games, and are thrown with elemental reactions, weapon, artifacts, synergy, etc. These are the people who has real life works, maybe heavy real life responsibilities/pressures, and can only spend some time late at night to play some genshin. You also have people who are 30-40 or maybe even older (fun fact, 30+ players make up a pretty big portion of the player base), who might find the genshin combat system to be quite difficult, and don't have/want to spend time to research on it.
As far as I feel like, Mihoyo is doing a pretty good job to cater to these players, especially in the main story quests and overworld. You don't even have to be that good to be able to enjoy 90%+ of the content.
Just like how lol attracted massive playerbase because it was a lot easier to get hands onto compared to dota, genshin is also doing similiar things as it spreads its playerbase outside of gamers, to complete casuals.
@@zeosummers3984 yes, they make up a good portion of the game's revenue and shouldn't be ignored. Maybe you didn't finish reading, I don't blame you, but I also said what they are doing isn't enough and should really implement breakthrough mechanic that is also in honkai.
@@rayz1310 Yeah, I love watching new players react to the genshin story, character, music and trailers. And it pains me to see them turning away from game mechanics instead of wanting to learn them if the experience is bad.
I really appreciate this video because "needing" a main DPS is one of the biggest myths amongst casuals in this game and it leads to reckless pulling. The only thing I would like to see explained in a quick and concise video are the reasons extending your rotation lowers your damage. I see a lot of people talk about characters like Itto having downtime, or "just" doing an extra skill on Kazuha to get his burst back, and a video that addresses all of that would be nice. I know some of the reasons but releasing a video on it could help grow the understanding of how rotations work in the community.
"IWintoLose Gaming" is part of the speedrunning community (the ones doing rotation optimization), so maybe check some of his videos until Zajef explains how "damage windows" align with Burst rotations and stuff?
@@nara-yana ohno not iwtl
itto, downtime ??? what are these people on
@@Internextion Why not? I reckon that he is one of those who spreads the "DPS" ("Main" and "Per Screenshot") mentality, that his showcases are whale bait and... ... Oh.
@@nara-yana LOL
i was literally contemplating making something like this myself. thank you so much for your service, Mr Zajef.
Now we need the same sort of role breakdown for overworld convenience xD Zhongli for example fills the roles of tall boi for faster movement, having his stele to help clear gaps or height, and being able to rapidly clear stone/mining ores, and for overworld battles his shield helps keep your health up
Bow users are helpful with environmental puzzles and enemies on towers, not having one is a regular 'ugh, I should have brought one' nuisance
Some regions benefit from having specific elements in your teams more. No dendro or electro in Sumeru is a pain, pyro puzzles are plentiful, but you'll rarely require cryo for overworld puzzles. Catalyst users and archers come with the bonus of not having a cooldown (Thoma for example is pointless to bring in for any puzzles where you need to apply pyro four times quickly)
You may want a healer, personally I find Barbara and Qiqi very valuable for overworld as their healing is not Q reliant and works while traveling so you can constantly stay topped up
Having an overworld team short at least one of these conveniences is a pain in the butt - playing XQ/Barbara, dendro MC/Collei, Yae/Raiden and Diona/Bennet combinations for example can be pretty fun and it covers your bases for dendro/electro, a bow if you use Collei or Diona, a more to less efficient healer depending on how much damage you're taking... Leave Bennet and you have no pyro though, leave Diona and you have no shields at all, and if you run into ores, have fun bc none of these can use a claymore or can burst rocks down. Yanfei's charge attack for mining is a thing but if that's all you have...
Overworld team needs and conveniences are very different from 'kill things as fast as possible', finding the perfect blend of being effective in combat and not running into problems every five minutes is trickier than it seems there.
It took me some time to accept the concepts discussed here. I put off building a taser team for the longest time. I always thought I needed a “hyper carry” that’s always on field. Then I realized the units that qualify for that are mostly 5 stars(w/c is not very good for a F2P). So I needed a change of mindset.
The difference is mainly about pouring all your resource into 1 character vs building 3 or more characters at the same time.
For the typical Sucrose taser, you are technically building 3 dps characters because Fischl, Beidou and Xinqiu all need DPS gears. For lower AR players, finding 3 usable elemental goblets is already a challenge. For late game players, they can easily raise a few character on the side because they already have a lot of weapons at lv90, a lot of talent books and exp books laying around.
That's why for newer players, building a hypercarry like Ganyu is gonna give them immediate result and help them with future farming needs, which is better then spreading their resouce for a bunch of level 60 4 star characters trying to force a comp that actually requires everyone being highly invested to work.
You have a point but teams like taser isn't the best example of needing high investment. Just slap 4 piece emblem on Beidou and Xingqiu, and use whatever 2-piece combos you have on Fischl.
Sure before AR-45 it might be hard, but basically as soon as you start to farm artifacts taser team gives you way better returns on your resin investment.
I would argue that taser team actually needs high investment when you are building them from the ground up because you are mostly relying on the raw multipliers from Fischl, Beidou and Xingqiu plus the swirl damage from a level 90 Sucrose.
That means besides from Sucrose, you are gonna need to rank up their talents to at least level 8 or 9. And like you said, you want 2 sets of emblem to hopefully achieve a 60/120 crit ratio while hitting the energy recharge requirement. That's gonna take quite a while but luckily the emblem domain is resin efficient so it doesn't feel as bad.
I am at AR 59 almost AR 60, and I only got roughly 5 sets of emblem on Raiden, Sara, Xingqiu, Xiangling and Yelan with acceptable crit ratios.
I also got an AR 58 alt account and building a taser team there took me quite a long time. While it's a great team no doubt about that, but it did take a while to get it up and running to a level that they can comfortably 36 star abyss. And still, Besides the 4pc VV on Sucrose, everyone is still running 2 + 2 set cause emblem ain't dropping anything useful.
@@davistsang4192 this is 100% true, I’m only able to build my sucrose taser after I got my mono pyro Klee (relatively)built. Plus getting a sac frag on my c0 sucrose is a huge difference. Now I live in the emblem domain for my beidou, xq, and xiangling. The shimenawa pieces helps too(esp. Because klee and fischl uses shim) now if hoyo just give me ONE sac sword. And not three bells.
@@davistsang4192 I agree. I can argue that the taser team is a relatively high investment team(despite only having 4 stars) coz you basically are building 3 dps and 1 support plus sacrificial fragment and sword are gacha weapons that is almost required for xq and sucrose. The difference is very noticeable esp energy requirements. Luckily emblem domain is resin efficient.
Plus having a character like ganyu(for me it was Batman)who heavy lifts your team during early on is probably what I recommend too when dealing with early game stuff(pre-ar45, overworld, story questing)
I've been saying for a long time now to my friends and random people online. These outdated terms just doesn't do a good job at explaining what a unit does in-depth.
And when i said that, ppl called me a blasphemy 😂 just like when i said how Favo > Sac in most of the time
its not that those terms are outdated, its just that they dont apply much to genshin
the amount of people who underrate units just cuz they’re off field is insane
Finally a content creator who addresses this topic... While the rest just say that you should pull for Ayaka because she is the best Main DPS...
Well ayaka isnt really a main dps shes like a really good sub dps use her E then Q then a couple of charged attacks then switch
@@bapzized8559 Ayaka is quick switch DPS not a sub DPS. The entire team buffs her and debuffs the enemy/enemies so she can do 99% of the damage in ~7s every 20s. XL, XQ, and Yelan are sub DPS.
@@bapzized8559 a sub dps is someone that deals damage and provides some support to the team, but they arent the ones that deal the most of the team's damage. ayaka deals pretty much most of the team's damage on the teams she's in, thus she isnt a sub dps
@@GervasiusMC thats true
@@bobjones1934 sarcasm.?
Thanks so much Mr Zajef, as a newer player who's only been around for about 7 months I've been feeling pressured and guilty about not pulling for "main dps" first before other characters that I prefer because that's what's recommended in most genshin circles. Most of the characters I like are mainly seen as "supports" that should be skipped in favour of "main dps". I feel more free from the pressure to pull for them now vs later on a rerun :D
Personally, I feel like the DPS and support mindset only starts to matter once you get more endgame (Endgame being basically just Spiral Abyss and bragging about your damage values on reddit). If you put damage artifacts on a "support" they'll still do good damage. Maybe not full clearing spiral abyss damage, but more than enough to do anything in the game exploration wise. Just look at the madlads who were told Barbara couldn't do damage, so they turned her into a nuke.
Even meta team compositions are kind of overrated. Synergy between characters is definitely important, but there's no need to shoehorn yourself into perfect rotations and specific teams just because that's the meta. I'm AR60, have done everything Genshin has to offer, and I have yet to make any of the meta team comps. And my Bennett is still lvl 1, because I'm just not a big fan and I don't care about how everyone says he's pretty much required to play the game properly.
Pull for characters you like first and foremost, and worry about team dynamics and dps after that. It'll all work out as long as you put some effort into making smart builds on those "supports" you like, because Genshin really that hard a game.
This mindset is honestly important in the abyss. teams where everyone contributes in damage instead of just a hyper carry itto or some sort, will often times do better in terms of faster clears. Unless ofc ur a c6 eula or a super invested dps that makes up for the damage on their own and does a pretty good aoe dmage
Honestly I hadn’t even thought about this but he makes so much sense and I agree with your points too. I hyper invested into itto cause I love him. He can clear his side or abyss with no issues but I do wanna try and expand and try team comps without a ‘main dps’
ive talking about this since the start of childe international discoveries and nobody take me seriously. honestly i think KQM need to step up and make a fixed official guide for character role and various terms, so everyone can follow it.
Apart from dispelling a misconception about some terms, I really do like how the underlying message is that these specific misconceptions have actual implications on our pulls, and that we would be more careful if we're aware of things like this :) Great video as always mr strimmer
I've been using pretty much the same categories as *Zajef* for quite some time, but doing a "political compass" (lewl) for their on/off-field alignment was simply *_chef's kiss._*
Really good and necessary video!
I discovered this early. Genshin can get really boring if you play only one character and I now have a wide cast and therefore a wide range of teams for me to find fun. They don't have optimized damage, but its enough to keep me busy and entertained, and I like feeling like I'm being challenged still.
ive always preferred to use on-field/off-field terms instead of main/sub dps. glad to know someone with a big audience like you to also feel the same way i do. nice vid btw!
this would help curb down the perception of " tartaglia is a bad main dps"
the whole point is to do good on field damage ( and this why you have to invest in your ult as it get get a HEAVY vaporize) along with enabling xiangling to hit pyronado in an aoe capacity .
Someone has to be actual dogshit at the game to consider Tartaglia bad as a DPS lmao
Some people thinks he needed C6 because they just don’t swap characters. That’s why this term “main DPS” really shapes how people perceive Childe. They want him to be longer on field because he’s a “main DPS”, Childe can’t do that, they see how long his cooldown is, proceeds to call him bad.
It’s so interesting that I’m not alone in my personal dislike of the Main/Sub DPS distinction. My realisation came when I was playing the International team and just realised how Xiangling was doing equal if not more damage than Childe, who was onfield for most of the rotation. I also started using the term “On-Field” and “Off-field” a lot more when I started getting into TC. I hope your video will help clear some of these misconceptions in the community
i'm more surprised about how many people thought that main dps meant on field. I don't think i ever heard that anywhere.
I thought my Childe slashing 8-12k everytime was nice in that team until pyronado comes by and deals 47k to everyone, with like half the resin sunk into her (all the fishings though).
Great video. I think the key thing to ask when building a team is "Who will take up the majority of the field time?" That's the thing to consider. Usually that character and the "main DPS" are one and the same for many teams.
Amazing vid as always balls
For those wondering, this vid was the result of a chatter on twitch asking if they should pull X character now or save for Y character since they don't have a "main DPS".
Which stream date is this btw?
@@jeremyg2236 It should be 3 days ago, you'll notice in the twitch vids that there were 3 vids 3 days ago because his OPS crashed while recording.
Now i want to question what they think a Main dps is?
omg shoutout to yanfei i love to see my best girl being acknowledged
also love that you mentioned how important it is to make sure you have lots of characters geared up besides your main DPS. i can attest to that because i try and build almost every character in the game for the sake of having options and avoid boredom.
ascending to lvl 80/80+ and leveling up talents is actually quite easy. more often than not i find myself not even needing to farm talent books because sub dps and support units don't need that many of them since just one or two talents need leveling - and the exploration, events and parametric transformer give quite a few of them over time.
as for artifacts, as much as we all love getting perfect substats and rolls, those aren't needed to 36* abyss. I have a bunch of really bad artis on my units and they are still perfectly able to get a perfect 36*. and farming a domain for like a week or two is enough to get mid artifacts that will carry you through just fine.
i definitely think that having a larger roster of characters that are available to be used any time is more valuable (and fun!) than having one or two min-maxed main DPS
very good video!! it's nice to watch someone unpack a topic like this that has led to me enjoying combat in this game far more and has really opened my eyes in endgame.
your videos have been so incredibly enlightening for me. i got linked to your discussion about ICD in your ayato pre-release video from a random genshin video and your videos started getting recommended to me after that. i'm so glad i started watching! you explain concepts in this game so well and it's been so much fun to learn in-depth about mechanics from you. you stream very early for me so they're often difficult for me to catch, but the atmosphere there is also really nice (it's so relieving to see someone so openly LGBT positive).
thank you for creating, mr. zajef! can't believe your content is still somehow this underrated. i hope you have a good day and are taking care of yourself! :)
Just in case, is it from Vars II's best element video ?
@@poochycosme nope! it was from a short video about melt diluc LOL
@@Falthiere ok nevermind
Him and Zy0x (who is friends with Zajeff, and how I found out about Zajeff) are my two “Go Too’s” for anything Genshin related. Zajeff deserves SO MANY MORE subs and I wish there was a way all of us in his community could make that happen.
i personally prefer to play quickswap teams than a team where one carry stays on field for an extended period of time. makes me feel like i'm actually being dynamic and doing something. then again, i can understand when people prefer a unit that stays on field for much longer time.
Could you do a video on at which point to stop artifact farming for a single character and move on to the next one? This will be extremely helpful
arround 30 substats. It Will take arround 2 months at that point(to get a better piece). You could go for 25thats actually kqm standard and build more units. Also depending on the unit some Will require more than others to function properly.25 substat eula hits harder than 25 substat razor, thats why some characters need more investment in order to clear abyss.
@@santiagooctavioserial4705 30 crit substats? What about em, atk, and ER? I need a detailed calculation for each meta unit.
100-200 crit ofc.
@@naud8171 30 substats, as in, substats that are useful for the character you're building. For example energy recharge is a good stat for Raiden but a very not good stat on hu tao
@@naud8171 getting over 30 good substats i meant. And as nau said, some substats are great for some characters and trash on another
Such an excellent video. Since I found your channel it made me *actually* understand the mechanics of this game. Please never stop creating content
Amazing video, essentially each team comp as a whole is a character with abilities, and each units are just those abilities/spells and swapping between character is like a global cooldown..... I played too much Mmo.
very well put
21:46 Bennet: Does all except crowd control
(you can still, however, use charge atks to push enemies in a certian direction. Not optimal, but it works).
Every character/gear has on-field kit, and off-field kit. Like dmg, heal, buff, shield. We just need correct classification for everyone.
The balancing in Genshin is actually kind of brilliant. The 4 star characters are great if you master the game mechanics, but 5 star characters let you ignore things that frustrate you. So there's always the option to just git gud, but a lot of people would rather spend a little bit of money instead. Zhongli, Raiden, Hu Tao, etc. all solve a specific problem, and you get exactly what you pay for.
Yep !
you are giving mhy to much credit. the (early) 4 star characters are great if you master the game mechanics, because mhy had no real grasp about how to balance the game around said mechanics at that point. try building a 4* team without 1.0 units, the performance difference is rough.
@@derdingo Is that actually true? Or is that just because everyone is so used to relying on the 1.0 characters, the newer ones have less research done on them to optimize well? The newer characters require a lot of different thinking. Like building Kuki is more similar to the mindset we use for anemo units.
@@amandaslough125 Or it's because 1.0 characters are just outright better whereas every 4* release after Yanfei is either extremely niche or just downright disappointing. Then there's Thoma who literally only became good with Burgeon by pure coincidence rather than the devs actually intending them to be good with Dendro like Yae or Kuki Shinobu. Actually building a team consisting of newer 4*s is just gonna feel genuinely awful and be barely functional in comparison to a 1.0 team.
@@amandaslough125 well, just give it a shot. the recent addition of dendro opened up a few more potential options. let me know if you can come up with anything that rivals the good old 1.0 teams.
So now it's the ODD
Everyone is the ODD.
On field DPS
Off field DPS
Lel
I'm 59 ar, I thought I couldn't learn anything drastically new, but this vid freaking opened my eyes... I love ur channel so much, the way that you express your thoughts is a chef's kiss :)
I love this topic, my friends would always go "raiden main DPS?" when I recommend them raiden national xD. Its hard to explain to new/ mid players since the term "main DPS" is very easy to co related with other games, and since artifact grind is a pain in the ass people want to only hyper invest into 1 character.
Spend too much time in artifact farm is the worst thing a new player can do. Even worse doing for just one character.
First because the natural dimish returns per investment system. That brings a frustration spiral, that slowly takes the joy of playing. Each time is harder to get a improvement and that being random makes the moments you don't get it, just a lost of time and resin, and well, that's actually the truth.
Second, because you end up playing with the same character for months and months, which naturally gets stale and boring. You already mastered this team, and doing way more damage than enough. Another deal breaker.
What I recommend, is to enjoy this game character and gameplay variety, and even easy to beat challenges, to make LOTS of different teams and have way more fun.
I change my teams each 2 updates, trying to use the most different chars I can. Instead of hyper investing in one, I have plenty of options to play even in abyss level.
Sorry for the wall text, with most of it being out topic. Is 2am right now. 👀
Overworld/SubAR 45 content pushes the term of main DPS to most players. This is one reason why you see alot asking for a main-dps advice because they got used to the gameplay of using "main dps". Main DPS is also tied with waifu-husbando favoritism and this is why you see shit like Physical Zhongli, Physical fischl, On-field mona dps and stuff.
Besides the subAR-45 aspect, I think it also has a lot to do with the characters we played around launch, and the quantity of constellations people had as well
Back then, you used Diluc, Klee, Keqing (and used for her E, not her burst, for the most part), or maybe the likes of Razor, physical Fischl, or a physical Xiangling. All of these are long term, on-field types. They essentially were the main DPS. Over time, that shifted. We got Hu Tao, the first of the amped up for a limited period of time characters. And since then, we have gotten a lot more of those. Itto, Raiden, Eula, Yoimiya... these are all characters that are designed, in part, to encourage teams that have multiple "main DPS" types, since they offer damage spikes and valleys.
Furthermore, people got more constellations for the four stars, which also changed things. A prime example would be Xiangling's C4, and the increased uptime it provides on her burst. This led to a lot more of the quick swap teams, that tend to rely pretty heavily on rotating through various bursts. And when you combined with the buff to swirl, suddenly you see an even greater focus on swapping through characters to apply a variety of elemental effects.
Phys Fischl is a bit different in that she actually made perfect sense in the context (1.0).
In 1.0 you have low total account power, generally no constellations and most likely no important characters (I think Bennet first appeared on banner in 1.2 for example). And it gets multiplied by the fact that you have no ER. Because unlike damage, ER has hard thresholds to meet, and most of your artifacts are 4-star (lvl16 5-star at best because lvl20 5-stars are prohibitively expensive at that point) which means much less total stat weight and therefore much less ER.
So in 1.0 you literally could not use the "top" teams because you didn't have enough pieces for them to even start functioning (have fun running national with C0 XL C0 Bennet C0 XQ).
And between all that you have Fischl who doesn't need constellations and is not constrained by artifact thresholds (and also has a phys damage craftable bow). She also isn't hard blocked by elemental slimes on 1.0 F10/F11. Because, duh, physical damage. And on top of that you have Fatui all over the abyss, who conveniently have -20% phys resist. Also with Fischl you can shoot them from outside their range.
Xiangling was in a similar position actually. Because with no ER, at C0, against Fatui, Crescent Pike makes perfect sense.
@@infine-8222 In 1.0, or if you’re a new player it is perfectly sensible to play physical characters. You don’t play abyss, at the beginning not a lot of enemies have high phys res, etc. and of course characters that relies on burst are bad because you don’t have energy/equipment to fully utilize it.
pikeli is still used now since its a convenient way to play zhongli (tho he is mostly a driver and u would ussualy run shielder zhongli)
I like the term 'driver' in cases where your on-field character may not themselves be doing all the damage, but is still functioning to proc all the buffs, off-field attacks, and elemental reactions.
It's not a zajef video if there isn't a 48.9 CV on-set goblet flex
But for me, worse than all this is to see a lot of people calling off filed damage dealer SUPPORT. Like I see many calling Xianling support.
This video exists specifically to sell us all on Sucrose, as usual (she's blessed AF though). Great way of explaining your points throughout the video.
alot of teams want sucrose cuz she's such a flexible anemo unit. you can use her offfield, onfield and in quickswaps, and she also batteries herself, all while being one of the greatest buffers in the game. shes like an anemo bennett but with grouping instead of healing.
THANKS for this! I have been running around and telling people that using the "Main DPS"-terminology is just unfitting for Genshin and imprecise. I have been referring to a total of 7 combat roles for Genshin (On-Field, Off-Field, Burst, Enabler, Battery, Support, Healer) and using that and it feels much more in line with what you're telling in your video.
Hope this video reaches more people to finally clear those things up.
What would you call Driver in this?
@@phantompanda5876 onfield enabler?
@@phantompanda5876 A Driver would be a On-Field Enabler, as Rei Kaze also mentioned :)
Thank u Mr. Editor for using Overwatch heroes around 00:50. I just know he's hyped for OW2
Only 2 functions are in my mind for genshin impact,
dps (on-field or off-field) which also encompasses grouping, energy, buffs, debuffs, and elemental application where more means more dps. If the team dps increase a pure buffer offer is not comparable to a off field dps, it is better to run the latter.
As well as survival which feels less bias of a term than defensive, this includes heals which is a bit worse than shields and dmg reduction as well as CC like freeze and petrify, staggers which also includes pulling and pushing. Lastly, Shortest amount of vulnerability like quick elemental skill cast, Burst I frames where 5 stars are longer but can also be a dps loss like zhongli, tall or short on field so their sprints can cover more distance.
I consider how much survival is required by their fraction of a whole like prototype amber is 1/2, same for freeze, albedo crystallize shields, xingqiu or beidou dmg reduction. This valuation is quite bad as it is tailored to my level of skill in dodging but it works.
Staggering for survival can be like venti for small mobs or klee against big but stagger-able enemies which requires quite a lot of skill.
Edit: stagger immunity is also a dps increase so less dodging.
that's actually really funny, I use the term Damage Dealer everytime. But I guess "On Fielder" is the Best term to use when someone is.. well.. on the field lol
The video doesn't hit the same when you don't give me that little smile and say "hi" at the beginning after saying the hello to the beautiful people part =(
Excellent video, that being said I can't wait to pull for Cyno kekw
Thank you for proposing an alternative system for me to use! Time to invest in my Qiqi battery!
This remembers me the first time I got 36*, I wasn't able to do 3 stars in 12-3 because in that time, was the 2 abyss pyro lectors, I realize I didn't needed use Ayato in that team, I need to use Barbara because the aura of the lectors hurts you so much that you need real time healing, and Barbara's auto can heal and do hydro aplication to deal with their pyro shields, that team was a taser with her, Fischl, Sucrose and Xingqiu, once I resolved that, the the second half was easy because was 2 abyss herald and Ayaka just freeze them.
Really this game just tricks you on want a main DPS, I was thinking I needed a main hydro DPS, to this day, Ayato is the less I use of my hydro units, because in reality I never needed an hydro on field DPS.
It's funny how different single-player and coop can be when it comes to these rules, because coop throws quickswapping out of the window, punishes taking damage a lot more, pretty much all off field damage dealer units lose their strengths and instead are less favored over an on field dps for obvious reasons. This may also contribute to these misunderstandings that you're referring to, but it's just weird how the game can have two different gameplay mechanics applied in the same environment.
I don't think this video justified its own existence. It doesn't really matter if you think main/sub dps terms are "good" or "bad", because it's not an either/or situation. You can use both main dps and off-field to describe characters (like Xiangling) and in some instances main dps is just a straight up better way of describing certain units than on field dmg dealer (Ganyu, Hu Tao, Ayaka, Raiden in hyper etc.)
It probably would've been better if this video was titled "Why Quickswap teams are underrated" or "why you don't need a main dps" and focused only on those aspects instead of the pointless stuff.
Nah, he makes a very good point. That is also very much observable in the community in general. When trying to build your own team or evaluate some unknown team, the highly-analytical perception of fixed character roles can skew your judgement and limit the ways you approach team building.
The thing with genshin team building is the team is more than a sum of 4 characters. And the characters are not there to fulfill well-defined roles. They aren't even lego bricks. More like each character is a bag of different bricks, and you can build a team by mixing and matching different bricks from different bags (and you aren't required to use all the bricks or use them "as intended").
You can take a character and make different teams where said character performs different "roles".
Because, personally, I think there actually are no roles. As much as I hate the term "social construct", roles are just that - a social construct. That limits the way you think about team building.
The perfect example is Sukokomon and Xiangling position in it. What is she? Is it even possible to describe what she does by just classifying her as some well-defined role? I think the only way to describe Sukokomon is just explain what happens at each exact moment in a rotation. The experience honestly defies any classification.
You summed up my thoughts perfectly. I think half of this video is somewhat useful for newer and casual players, while the other half is just... Dumb lol. It probably sounded better in his head, but not every idea that comes to your head will make for a good video, unfortunately.
Exactly! I agree
hyv didn't foresaw zajef's coming to the scene MEGALUL
I personally think these reaction teams without a "dps" can easily outperform many main dps teams in the abyss or events where you have to fight for a longer period of time. When you use these teams in overworld though, the enemies are dead most of the time before you even get tu use your 4th character. This destroys the rotations because then you might not have your bursts for the next ones and it just feels like a waste to use abilities unless you get much value from your skill or from ONE character or you just give everyone 300% er 😂 That's why I play dps-less teams in abyss and events but overworld I use comfort teams that don't even have to be meta and that go after the regular thing like dps, sub dps, support, support because it's much easier to just use as much as you need for any enemy without being unable to use your full potential in your next fight.
what an insane video, I wish so many more players would know of this channel
Bot
@@Succubus_L0li touch grass ma boi
I just watched this video and the youtube short and got flexed on by the same artifact twice... why am i even here
Based on this i can see now why Kazuha is actually so good;
1) he is on field + off field dmg dealer (ele skill and burst+swirl in both situations)
2) crowd control
3) buffer (ele dmg buffing)
4) debuffer (res shred with vv set)
With pretty little time needed to do all that stuff. But the most important thing is that he does so many things being only 1 unit and on top of it doing all of that very well, not just meh like "a bit of everything". He does a lot and with a good quality. This makes Kazuha such a good unit
Pog new video just before I go to sleep
I basically use Ganyu for freeze comps, I don’t think I’ve ever fired an arrow in the abyss, I can do more DPS with Ayato instead of waiting for charge shots.
for on-field units, the term "main DPS" only really applies to at MOST 4 units
Xiao, Itto, Eula, Hu Tao. (Cyno MAYBE?) These units are, in ALL OF THEIR TEAMS, the main source of a team's (rotational) DPS. (4VV Xiao national is a meme, but it's a fun meme 😂)
Everyone else is (or can be) an on-field driver/enabler.
however, what I said above does not take away the fact that the term "main DPS" is bad/misleading in the first place
Diluc sadge
Yoimiya, Klee, Ayaka, Ganyu
Ayaka?
Cyno 100%, his on field time is insanely high
I don't find that to be the case with Eula, due to the Eula/Raiden comps. In those teams, she shares DPS duties, especially when Raiden is C2+. And you can further split up the damage contributions by running Yelan with those two. Of the various "on field peaks and valleys" dps types, Eula and Raiden are the two most likely to be in teams where they share the DPS spotlight.
I do agree that Eula isn't a driver/enabler, though. If she's on the team, she's there to deliver the pain directly.
20:15 taser team also does a lot of stagger
This video needs to be more popular. Lot of misconceptions out there.
This was a nice topic for discussion. A lot of newer players would benefit from the knowledge imparted. 😉👍🏽
It’s funny because my Yoimiya team only has Yoimiya’s dps to carry it, Yelan doesn’t deal enough dmg to compete there, but she IS Yoimi’s enabler. It may not be meta, or perfect, but it’s fun af. On the other hand, I prefer to use the terms driver and dmg dealer. And I’ll take some from you as well (Buffer is a great concept).
Thx for the food for thought.
The great thing about Genshin is you don’t even have to pick, you can play hypercarrys and main dps traditionally and run reaction teams that don’t have a main dps. It fits whatever your in the mood for which I really love
Man, I'm tired of hearing things like "Xiangling is a support for main DPS Raiden" or "Tartaglia is the weakest main DPS". As always good video
WideBalls
Tartaglia is the weakest main dps because main dps kokomi deals more damage Batchest
Well, cause Childe is extremely nitch, only viable by piggy back the 3 most broken character in the game, on top of unreliable due to having no interruption resistant and tiny AA range.
@@cynt4416 and he's the best unit you can put with those broken characters making it arguably the best team in the game. If you only work with one team, but what you do is so good in that one team it automatically makes you really really good.
@@cynt4416 Really depends on how you define "niche". Childe's only place in the meta is in one team, but that team is one of the most flexible teams in the game in terms of the type of content you can use it to steamroll. Childe is niche if you define it as the amount of teams a character can fit in, but Childe is definitely NOT niche if defined as the type of content he excels against. Niche or not niche, Childe has an established place in the meta that he continues to reign supreme in, and at the end of the day, that's what really matters in terms of discussing his power level/meta value.
But he is weak dmg wise, but he is a great driver in his best teams
i hate the term "dps" in general
because it makes no sense!!!! it always makes me so irrationally angry when i hear it
dps stands for damage per second
you can't say "i'm a dps" no!!! you are not damage per second! you DO damage per second!
so it shouldn't be dps... it should be dpsd for damage per second dealer! or dd just for damage dealer!!!
i hate the term dps so much
Yo this is why Diluc is so underrated. I can quick swap in between his E charges. Even when his burst is up, he doesn't lose his infusion. I am constantly throwing Bennett and Kazuha E's mid rotation and it's a lot of fun.
i hecking love taser team.
I get so happy when I see a Zajef upload
17:57 he can't keep getting away with this man
pepeW
With my skills, a more appropriate term would be main damage taker.
Totally agree, I find pretty hard to explain some things to new players because of those terms. I'll be using these new ones instead. Great video!! 👍
This man is a genius.
you're my main dps mr zajorts
D - Thundering
P - Fury
S - Specialist
I totally agree with this video! There was a youtuber called Yelan as bad character because she's not 'Main DPS'. When he learned Yelan as a DPS unit he thought she has to be stay on field and that's why he trashed her a lot. Of course after that people tried to explain this but he didn't wanted to accept this fact.
Danteden mi bahsediyorsun? Lol
@@gloriosadaisy4152 Yup
@@nayto1812 O adam gördüğüm en mal youtuberlardan biri olabilir. Arkadaşlarla gülüp dalga geçmek için videolarını izlerdik eskiden xdd
That ytuber don't know what they're talking about, either that or the char was new at the time
@@gloriosadaisy4152 ben hala yapıyorum onu aklıma geldikçe dafadbadbad
12:08 Feels bad to play Bennett as a carry
Me with C6 Bennett with R1 Mistspltter, 4-piece Crimson Witch, 70:182 crit ratio: Feels bad for the enemy
With 130 er? Lmao
@@chad5115 Anything wrong with that? You're on field catching your particles, Yelan has Favonius Bow, Xingqiu could also use Fav Sword.
17:33 - Why is this artifact locked, broooo
I learned a lot from your videos, thank you so much for making them
7:11 🤣🤣🤣 This was nice.
Imo there are 4 types of main dps though I also most of the time call em on field auto attacker, 1 which is enabeler and kind of off to the side (think sucrose taser or tartaglia international), and then 3 on field main dps's split between quick-swap for those that get a few hits in and leave (keqing aggrevate), standard (think hu toa rev-vape) and hypercarry (think xiao) even if they are not doing the mayority of the damage.... basically I just made a split in my mind between the terms main dps and main damage dealer (which the later would include xiangling for example)
Its easier to look at individual characters in genshin as equipment or perks, and your team being the actual "player character". Then notion of main dps becomes easier to do away with.
applying in real life, using people as tools to achieve success and the company as the player 😂
This video is sponsored by Sucrose.
BatChest I HECKIN LOVE ZAJEF UPLOADS
Zajeff: "Things have a cast time"
C6 Xiao: "Heh."
Good video. I also separate on-field damage dealer to their field time duration. Like less than 12sec are short duration, greater than 12 long duration and can qualify as a driver.
This whole video explained my reason why i didn't use hypercarry team by now. Rotational party always have benefits rather than hyper carry team
11:01 I love how you can tell there is a time skip because day changes to night
Replacing the term "Main DPS" with the term "Damage Dealer" is the exact right thing. Another thing that people sleep on a lot because of the term "Main DPS" is the difference between characters that deal consistent, high damage, compared to characters that deal a massive burst damage, followed by some downtime in damage. The latter often gets underestimated, because having a lot of damage down time means that a character isn't a great DPS per definition, but still a very strong damage dealer in general.
For example, I'm currently in the situation where I'm thinking about whether I should pull for Raiden or for Ayaka, because I'm lacking a strong damage dealer at the moment. I'm way more excited for Raiden's playstyle, but people desperately recommended me to go for Ayaka because she has great DPS, while Raiden doesn't quite because her damage has considerable downtime, so you can't just keep her on field for consistent, high damage. But when you just go with "I don't need a DPS, I need a damage dealer", suddenly Raiden and many other characters (including 4*s) become way more interesting again. Raiden may not be a great DPS because of her damage downtime, but being able to oneshot weekly bosses still makes her one hell of a damage dealer, and to me, that's what really counts in the end. High, on-field DPS with close to zero damage downtime is great, but it's greatly overrated by many players.
I don't even understand the comparison with Ayaka ? She's more of a "burst DPS" (or burst damage dealer) rather than a "traditional" DPS. Most of Ayaka's damage comes from her burst, you only do normal attacks because cooldowns are a thing. They have more or less the same amount of downtime and they're on-field for approximately the same amount of time too.
Maybe what you meant is that in Ayaka's case you can extend your rotation and continue attacking with Ayaka to finish off an enemy whereas you wouldn't be able to with Raiden ? But it wouldn't be "consistent, high damage" like you mentioned, so idk.
So theoretically Zajef is saying don't pull for Cyno this video timing is impeccable
Love the videos! Keep up the great work!
Thanks for putting the unit analysis sheet in the description
I'll also say that the Genshin community's terminology is really bad for new players. Main DPS, sub DPS, driver, trigger, there are tons of terms which aren't very descriptive and don't make much sense to new players.
overthinking in a nutshell
Zajef you’re the 🐐