I've tried every different type of swing method I could find and they all seem to work. But when there was any pressure on the course I would struggle. I'm now just working on find my natural swing and feeling the clubhead through impact. I couldn't agree more with what you are saying in this video.
That's a great point about pressure. Pressure doesn't even have to be in a tournament. It can be that the wind is blowing in a direction you don't like and it makes you a bit uneasy about where this ball will end up. Now the pressure is on and your body is going to do something weird.
@@GolfTestDummy @GolfTestDummy Very true. Pressure comes in so many forms. Im striking the ball much more consistently by letting the club follow the way my body wants to move instead of trying to get it into positions. Kind of following the mental concepts of GRF/Zen golf.
I have had many lessons in my life. Every once in a while this is brought up as a technique. Never worked for me. That is until an old school teacher asked me , what is my focus? I said impact. The next words that came out of the teacher was, why on earth are you concerned about impacts, focus on after impact in front of the ball. So I set up normal shifted to impact behind the ball. Then moved the leaned shaft on the target side placing pressure on the bending shaft on the ground in front of the ball. This made the most sense, and I started getting divots after the ball.
It's a valid point you make, because what I'm saying CAN be interpreted as "just swing and stop at impact", or hitting AT the ball, rather than THROUGH the ball. Those are the subtleties that the individual can struggle with. In this video, I think I mentioned a few things that hopefully clarify some of the confusion. A snapshot taken of impact as you swing, the follow through and finish being created by what happened through impact, applying speed down and through, while the grip leads the way, etc.
a perfect example is in Hogans 5 lessons, the image of him at impact with bowed wrist, if you look at it carefully, is actually just after impact because the ball or drawing shows ball just leaving. Mark Evershed video. go to time 3:34 from there on but the complete video is an excellent perspective. czcams.com/video/fGszBC_sF_M/video.html
I start my drives from my finish, set up and get balanced, belt buckle pointed to wher the ball will go and slowly work backwards. I tell my friends but they don't appreciate my brilliance. Your tge first person I ever seen address this. Recent sub btw
I think that’s what Moe Norman was teaching. Set up in a position that you will be in, when you strike the ball. Makes sense but not all that simple to beginners. Thanks for the video!
One of my favorite videos Chad. I've discussed this very thing with a +1 handicap friend. Unless you are trying to become elite keep it as simple as possible. I read comments and wonder what are they trying to accomplish? The game is hard enough without trying to decipher complex biomechanics. I love it, find your preferred ball flight, understand impact and ball flight laws, determine how to get there, and practice/and or get lessons.
Absolutely. It's fine to admire Neimann or Champ, or any of the other top level pros. Hell, I'm the biggest Michael Jordan fan in history, and I'm still destroyed by his highlights to this day, but to think I can do what he can is insanity.
Chad, you nailed it. Everyone of us should start with the end in mind. I struggled when I was starting my golf journey, but really improved when I learned to focus on impact postion and letting my body figure out how to naturally get there. Our bodies, especially our mind, is amazing at figuring out what needs to be done in a movement. It just needs to know what you want done without too much thought. Let the biomechanics work themselve out naturally and your unique swiing will come through, as you said, it'll take some time for the mind and body to figure it out, but with practice, it will. Cheers.
A guy mentioned in one of your videos, this guy Richard Fish. Crazy golf pro. I went and watched it. Enjoyed it. You might too. It's really just a mental approach to Swinging your swing not the golf instructors swing.
Yep, I've watched some of it. Long format, but yeah, I love the simple approach. So much of the instruction I find in the mainstream is geared toward turning a scratch golfer into a plus 3, or a 3 into scratch, and that's just NOT relatable or even achievable for 85 percent of the golfing community. There needs to be instruction broken in to 2 distinct categories, at least. Recreational golf improvement and elite golf improvement.
@@GolfTestDummy I grew up with a guy who is a teaching pro now. He won a few mini tour events back in the day. He developed a swing path alignment board, you hit balls off of. Has the different paths and clubface explanations on it. He gave me one. I passed it on to someone. Have no idea where someone could get one. But it is exactly a visual of paths and clubface positions. I think he sold the rights to it. Not sure. I see some . Not exactly his, on the Internet for sale.
Good stuff Chad......it's a bit dated but very true. This is what Henry Cotton did to teach beginners. First hitting a tire with taps then increasing in length and intensity.
Trevor Salzman(TS Golf) talks about this in many of his videos,as well as J Chown golf. I started with that methodology of working backwards and not forwards. Requires reps, like anything, but you do see a quicker result so you know your on the right path.
Exactly! Nothing is gonna come for free. It takes work and time, like anything else. BUT, it seriously cuts down on the chance that you're going to spends years heading down a bad path.
I've heard some coaches say that basically, trying to simply "get into a position" during the swing doesn't work. That a "trick" or something is needed. But to me, if you start slow and small, and you can successfully get the club in the right spot at impact, your body will figure out how to get there.
Another good one Chad, how many times have we heard the swing is as simple as returning your hands to where they started, if you start with the shaft straight up and down and return your hands there you can’t get proper shaft lean, it’s why I’ve played my best golf with JV, because the setup puts me in that position. You’re a some levels ahead of me so you can get those positions with a more traditional swing.
Hey, starting where you wanna finish is really smart, but not EVERYBODY will fall in that category. There's only one real objective, and that's hit the impact position as you go through to the finish. Everything else is negotiable.
@@GolfTestDummy I’d never imply JV is for everyone, I never picked up a club til 17 and never got a lot of golf instruction, now there’s so much available and you can only think about so much in the second it takes to make a swing. Appreciate you making it less complicated
Right on. Same. Didn't start til I was almost 20. Was always self taught, then left the game for 7 or 8 years, came back, looked at a bunch of instruction, hit the absolute skids.
At the age of 70 I went to the single plane swing of Moe Norman and dropped a stroke a hole. Playing 9 holes I went from 49 to 40 consistently. As you know, that's 4 over par. In 2020 I shot a 38. I know now that when I go to the course, I'm going to have a good round.
Judging by the comments, the approach has a lot of fans. I guess that the only thing left is to provide a proof of concept where you play to single or low single digits on a course with only impact in mind for all shots (excluding chips, pitches and putts perhaps?). If this works, then perhaps you can develop or assemble a set of drills to help people become better at working backwards from impact. Cheers.
I've never been high on most drills or most training aids. There are a few drills I've found value in, like the flamingo drill or feet together. The split grip drill is pretty excellent.
Try hitting a reset button mentally, if you can, when you're kind of lost. Start with chip shots. Get the grip to lead the way through impact. Nice, short, chip swings, that are soild as all hell. After a thousand of those, make the swing a little bigger, lol.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there...Grateful Dead? Anyway, sound approach! You want to get the club (face) delivered on the correct path to get the ball to go where you want it to go. Seen this somewhere...what does your impact position look like? That's where you want to go. Work it backwards from there...simple! Of course not really, but I really like what you're doing!
Simple concept, sure, but trial and error, practicing, trying to get the club in the spot, etc., is the hard part. But, a journey of a thousand miles....
I think many golfers don’t realize how different the setup position is to impact position. Do you know of any good golfer that doesn’t have bend in the trail arms at impact?
Well, on the pro and elite level, that's certainly the case, yes. Having some trail arm bend is something you see at that level. "Good" is a relative term, though. To most golfers, playing with someone that's a 6 handicap, they'd say that was a good golfer. And they might not have much trail arm bend at all, but just became skilled at hitting 200 yard drives, solid irons, and dependable short game to shoot decent scores.
Yeah, it is not impossible to be a six handicapper and still be a flipper. But the people who achieve forward shaft lean and have a straight trail arm are in the clear minority. Why make a hard game harder…maintain bend in the trail arm for easier shaft lean.
Just the handle forward part. That visualization in my opinion will work for many just won't work for everyone. Will cause some to raise the handle through impact, lead to blocks and weak push fades. Not all swing thoughts , visualizations work for everyone. That's why they are not fundamentals. The shaft grip leading in itself is. The description of how to achieve it is not. That is going down golf instructor land. Which you are currently trying to avoid.
As far as what I would focus on , ball flight dynamics dictate what that would be as you're saying. So many ways to do that, just never ending. I too, am looking to do what is natural for me. Understanding my own tendencies is what I am working on. Very few rounds of golf are automatic pilot. Have to learn to be your own coach.
I think you’re on to something. It never works to try and train the body to do a certain move during the swing, but rather, you need to give it a task. For Example: Let’s say there was a tree branch that’s horizontal in front of you (about waist high) and a you told a beginner they must hit the ball underneath that branch. Unconsciously, without even knowing it, their body will create forward shaft lean, and they’ll soon be striking it pure.
That's a prime example of your body figuring it out! Perfect. You've gotta know how the tool works first. Then, understand the different scenarios and how they affect the club/ball interaction. Once you have that, you know the position of the club at impact. And then you focus on making that impact position happen with speed. Practice, practice, practice.
Yeah, I'm not saying that muscles have individual brains. The point I'm making, and have made in previous videos, is that we figured out how to walk, how to throw, how to chew, etc. So if we know where we want the club to move, our body, which uses the brain, will figure it out.
GTD: You're not getting enough views. You take a nine iron into the hood and ask if they want instructions and you'll clean up! czcams.com/video/BNV8dmI8vQU/video.html Just a little humor, GTD!
I've tried every different type of swing method I could find and they all seem to work. But when there was any pressure on the course I would struggle. I'm now just working on find my natural swing and feeling the clubhead through impact. I couldn't agree more with what you are saying in this video.
That's a great point about pressure. Pressure doesn't even have to be in a tournament. It can be that the wind is blowing in a direction you don't like and it makes you a bit uneasy about where this ball will end up. Now the pressure is on and your body is going to do something weird.
@@GolfTestDummy @GolfTestDummy Very true. Pressure comes in so many forms. Im striking the ball much more consistently by letting the club follow the way my body wants to move instead of trying to get it into positions. Kind of following the mental concepts of GRF/Zen golf.
I have had many lessons in my life. Every once in a while this is brought up as a technique. Never worked for me.
That is until an old school teacher asked me , what is my focus? I said impact.
The next words that came out of the teacher was, why on earth are you concerned about impacts, focus on after impact in front of the ball.
So I set up normal shifted to impact behind the ball. Then moved the leaned shaft on the target side placing pressure on the bending shaft on the ground in front of the ball.
This made the most sense, and I started getting divots after the ball.
It's a valid point you make, because what I'm saying CAN be interpreted as "just swing and stop at impact", or hitting AT the ball, rather than THROUGH the ball. Those are the subtleties that the individual can struggle with. In this video, I think I mentioned a few things that hopefully clarify some of the confusion. A snapshot taken of impact as you swing, the follow through and finish being created by what happened through impact, applying speed down and through, while the grip leads the way, etc.
a perfect example is in Hogans 5 lessons, the image of him at impact with bowed wrist, if you look at it carefully, is actually just after impact because the ball or drawing shows ball just leaving. Mark Evershed video.
go to time 3:34 from there on but the complete video is an excellent perspective.
czcams.com/video/fGszBC_sF_M/video.html
I start my drives from my finish, set up and get balanced, belt buckle pointed to wher the ball will go and slowly work backwards. I tell my friends but they don't appreciate my brilliance. Your tge first person I ever seen address this. Recent sub btw
Sounds pretty smart to me!
I think that’s what Moe Norman was teaching. Set up in a position that you will be in, when you strike the ball. Makes sense but not all that simple to beginners. Thanks for the video!
Yeah, the concepts can be simple, and that's fine, but even simple concepts can be difficult to execute with consistency and efficiency.
One of my favorite videos Chad. I've discussed this very thing with a +1 handicap friend. Unless you are trying to become elite keep it as simple as possible. I read comments and wonder what are they trying to accomplish? The game is hard enough without trying to decipher complex biomechanics. I love it, find your preferred ball flight, understand impact and ball flight laws, determine how to get there, and practice/and or get lessons.
Absolutely. It's fine to admire Neimann or Champ, or any of the other top level pros. Hell, I'm the biggest Michael Jordan fan in history, and I'm still destroyed by his highlights to this day, but to think I can do what he can is insanity.
Chad, you nailed it. Everyone of us should start with the end in mind. I struggled when I was starting my golf journey, but really improved when I learned to focus on impact postion and letting my body figure out how to naturally get there. Our bodies, especially our mind, is amazing at figuring out what needs to be done in a movement. It just needs to know what you want done without too much thought. Let the biomechanics work themselve out naturally and your unique swiing will come through, as you said, it'll take some time for the mind and body to figure it out, but with practice, it will. Cheers.
Precisely. Most elite golfers have superior coordination and athleticism. Most of us don't. Bend how you know how.
A guy mentioned in one of your videos, this guy Richard Fish. Crazy golf pro. I went and watched it. Enjoyed it. You might too. It's really just a mental approach to Swinging your swing not the golf instructors swing.
Yep, I've watched some of it. Long format, but yeah, I love the simple approach. So much of the instruction I find in the mainstream is geared toward turning a scratch golfer into a plus 3, or a 3 into scratch, and that's just NOT relatable or even achievable for 85 percent of the golfing community. There needs to be instruction broken in to 2 distinct categories, at least. Recreational golf improvement and elite golf improvement.
@@GolfTestDummy I grew up with a guy who is a teaching pro now. He won a few mini tour events back in the day. He developed a swing path alignment board, you hit balls off of. Has the different paths and clubface explanations on it. He gave me one. I passed it on to someone. Have no idea where someone could get one. But it is exactly a visual of paths and clubface positions. I think he sold the rights to it. Not sure. I see some . Not exactly his, on the Internet for sale.
I like your approach. Will give it a try. Thanks.
Go get it, Gary! More coming.
Brilliantly thought through and delivered. Well done!
I'm so glad you and others agree. 👍🏻
this is the bestest best of golf swing advices. Really learn how the club is designed to work BEFORE making an attempt at swinging it.
Absolutely. Any other way is like dropping an iPhone in the year 1803. No clue.
Good stuff Chad......it's a bit dated but very true. This is what Henry Cotton did to teach beginners. First hitting a tire with taps then increasing in length and intensity.
Yep, I remember seeing that years ago. It's where the impact bag came from, haha. Nothing new in golf.
Another quality video, the basics are important.
You got it. It's a simple concept, that's difficult to execute.
K.I.S.S.
You covered all the bases
Well done GTD
You got it! 👍🏻
Great video, thank you! Hope Mrs. GTD is doing well. Prayers from Texas.
So many thanks for the well wishes. She's doing as well as she can through the side effects, but plenty more treatments to go, so keep sledding.
Trevor Salzman(TS Golf) talks about this in many of his videos,as well as J Chown golf. I started with that methodology of working backwards and not forwards. Requires reps, like anything, but you do see a quicker result so you know your on the right path.
Exactly! Nothing is gonna come for free. It takes work and time, like anything else. BUT, it seriously cuts down on the chance that you're going to spends years heading down a bad path.
@@GolfTestDummy YES! It’s one of those, “Wish I would have known when I was younger.” That’s how I’m going to teach my kids.
I've heard some coaches say that basically, trying to simply "get into a position" during the swing doesn't work. That a "trick" or something is needed. But to me, if you start slow and small, and you can successfully get the club in the right spot at impact, your body will figure out how to get there.
Another good one Chad, how many times have we heard the swing is as simple as returning your hands to where they started, if you start with the shaft straight up and down and return your hands there you can’t get proper shaft lean, it’s why I’ve played my best golf with JV, because the setup puts me in that position.
You’re a some levels ahead of me so you can get those positions with a more traditional swing.
Hey, starting where you wanna finish is really smart, but not EVERYBODY will fall in that category. There's only one real objective, and that's hit the impact position as you go through to the finish. Everything else is negotiable.
@@GolfTestDummy I’d never imply JV is for everyone, I never picked up a club til 17 and never got a lot of golf instruction, now there’s so much available and you can only think about so much in the second it takes to make a swing.
Appreciate you making it less complicated
Right on. Same. Didn't start til I was almost 20. Was always self taught, then left the game for 7 or 8 years, came back, looked at a bunch of instruction, hit the absolute skids.
Great video as always Chad! Many prayers for your wife 🙏 stay strong! 💪
Thanks a bunch, we really appreciate it. She's a trooper. Hanging in there.
At the age of 70 I went to the single plane swing of Moe Norman and dropped a stroke a hole. Playing 9 holes I went from 49 to 40 consistently. As you know, that's 4 over par. In 2020 I shot a 38. I know now that when I go to the course, I'm going to have a good round.
It's a super solid and simple method. I did a whole series of videos on this a while back.
Judging by the comments, the approach has a lot of fans. I guess that the only thing left is to provide a proof of concept where you play to single or low single digits on a course with only impact in mind for all shots (excluding chips, pitches and putts perhaps?). If this works, then perhaps you can develop or assemble a set of drills to help people become better at working backwards from impact. Cheers.
I've never been high on most drills or most training aids. There are a few drills I've found value in, like the flamingo drill or feet together. The split grip drill is pretty excellent.
Love your logic mate......just have to find a way for my brain to connect to that logic....
Try hitting a reset button mentally, if you can, when you're kind of lost. Start with chip shots. Get the grip to lead the way through impact. Nice, short, chip swings, that are soild as all hell. After a thousand of those, make the swing a little bigger, lol.
If you don't know where you're going, any road will get you there...Grateful Dead?
Anyway, sound approach! You want to get the club (face) delivered on the correct path to get the ball to go where you want it to go.
Seen this somewhere...what does your impact position look like? That's where you want to go. Work it backwards from there...simple! Of course not really, but I really like what you're doing!
Simple concept, sure, but trial and error, practicing, trying to get the club in the spot, etc., is the hard part. But, a journey of a thousand miles....
George Harrison
The sweet spot is four grooves up from bottom
You got it, and you can't get there without the club in the right position at impact.
I think many golfers don’t realize how different the setup position is to impact position. Do you know of any good golfer that doesn’t have bend in the trail arms at impact?
Well, on the pro and elite level, that's certainly the case, yes. Having some trail arm bend is something you see at that level. "Good" is a relative term, though. To most golfers, playing with someone that's a 6 handicap, they'd say that was a good golfer. And they might not have much trail arm bend at all, but just became skilled at hitting 200 yard drives, solid irons, and dependable short game to shoot decent scores.
Yeah, it is not impossible to be a six handicapper and still be a flipper. But the people who achieve forward shaft lean and have a straight trail arm are in the clear minority. Why make a hard game harder…maintain bend in the trail arm for easier shaft lean.
Agreed. You get a more efficient power, which means less effort, for the same result, or better results, with the previous effort, lol.
Welcome back to Jim Venetos. Lol
Lol, alllll the coaches I've studied have had some kind of influence, in one way or another.
Good stuff. Only disagree slightly with one thing. Not technically . But visualization and swing thought wise.
Which would you choose to focus on?
Just the handle forward part. That visualization in my opinion will work for many just won't work for everyone. Will cause some to raise the handle through impact, lead to blocks and weak push fades. Not all swing thoughts , visualizations work for everyone. That's why they are not fundamentals. The shaft grip leading in itself is. The description of how to achieve it is not. That is going down golf instructor land. Which you are currently trying to avoid.
As far as what I would focus on , ball flight dynamics dictate what that would be as you're saying. So many ways to do that, just never ending. I too, am looking to do what is natural for me. Understanding my own tendencies is what I am working on. Very few rounds of golf are automatic pilot. Have to learn to be your own coach.
Some of the best scientists in the world use a reverse engineering approach. Makes sense it would work for the golf swing too!
I think so. Pretty convinced at this point.
I think you’re on to something. It never works to try and train the body to do a certain move during the swing, but rather, you need to give it a task.
For Example:
Let’s say there was a tree branch that’s horizontal in front of you (about waist high) and a you told a beginner they must hit the ball underneath that branch. Unconsciously, without even knowing it, their body will create forward shaft lean, and they’ll soon be striking it pure.
That's a prime example of your body figuring it out! Perfect. You've gotta know how the tool works first. Then, understand the different scenarios and how they affect the club/ball interaction. Once you have that, you know the position of the club at impact. And then you focus on making that impact position happen with speed. Practice, practice, practice.
YOUR BODY will figure OUT? >>> YOU mean YOUR MIND! >>>>> Muscles do not have memories! ONLY THE MIND DOES!!
Yeah, I'm not saying that muscles have individual brains. The point I'm making, and have made in previous videos, is that we figured out how to walk, how to throw, how to chew, etc. So if we know where we want the club to move, our body, which uses the brain, will figure it out.
Chad, please, for all that is holy, no more dome close-ups
Oh come on! I might as well just shut the whole thing down then.
@@GolfTestDummy😮
😆
GTD: You're not getting enough views. You take a nine iron into the hood and ask if they want instructions and you'll clean up!
czcams.com/video/BNV8dmI8vQU/video.html
Just a little humor, GTD!
Lol, well, I agree, I need to get more views. 😅 I think my content gets lost in an ocean of videos. Hard to be seen. 5 years of grinding it out.