Introducing the Proposed IBX
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- čas přidán 18. 05. 2022
- The Interborough Express (IBX) is a proposed new transit line that would connect Brooklyn and Queens. Taking advantage of a 14 mile existing freight rail line, the IBX would offer new service to up to 900,000 people that live within a half-mile of the line. To find out more, and provide feedback on the project, visit new.mta.info/ibx.
*Update: video reposted to correct errors. We apologize for any confusion.
Conventional rail is the way to go. Much more scalable capacity, the possibility to through run to the Bronx if an extension is built, and much lower infra costs are what makes it desirable. Honestly, light rail isn't the best, but still better than BRT, which just is the overall worst (lowest capacity, makes the least sense given it's a *rail* line already).
i agree simulationnerd the guard manager of stepford county railway
Why would I trust Stalin?
based stalin as usual
based and redpilled stalin
that's interesting, considering this could be NYC's first option and chance to incorporate light rail
Whatever it turns into, it HAS to be part of a single swipe metro card system. Keep it IN network. And you have to get out ahead of the transit oriented development gentrification issue. Some of the neighborhoods you are going to be connecting to are traditionally car oriented and may be hostile to that change. Plan for tough conversations about how important projects like this are for the future of the city.
I dont see why not if it's staying within NYC.
Yes, fares and ticketing for MNR/LIRR/NJT are a hot mess compared to the subway. Keep it in the system with OMNY.
MetroCard will be LONG gone by the time this is open
The MTA should also rebuild several subway stations along the IBX route as part of the project like the Flatbush Ave terminus for the 2 and 5. It was NEVER designed to be a side platform terminal station.
You could redesign the station with additional storage tracks and provisions for a long planned extension down Nostrand Ave to Sheepshead Bay or Marine Park as part of integrating the IBX with the subway. And Brooklyn College would gain a front door entrance to the expanded station.
The same could be said for Avenue H on the Q line and many other stations that the IBX happens to miraculously pass by.
@@DDELE7 given that this is supposed to be something that can be implemented much more quickly than your typical project, I believe there will at least initially be a number of well signposted out of system connections
I'm a Londoner and I'm begging you guys to learn from us. Use conventional rail. The IBX is so often compared to the London Overground which has been a huge success here for circumferential journeys. Its fast, comfortable, and relatively frequent at 5-10 minute all day headways. The best mode to achieve this in conventional rail. This will be a core line of the system as long as the MTA exists. For a city the size of New York, its core dedicated infrastructure HAS to be a step above Light Rail and especially BRT. Buses and low floor trams just can't compare to the capacity, speed, or comfort of conventional rail.
This is what I love about the internet, and living in this time, because someone from London can give us advise here in New York with just a click of a button. I agree, as a person who grew up around this freight right-of-way in Brooklyn.
I’m starting to think of moving to London.
I WILL TRY IT ONCE THE PROHECTS ARE DONE.
@@amazing50000 globalization
Thanks for the tip Londoner us New Yorkers will forward that to the MTA let's hope they accept
I hope the Conventional Rail option is chosen. It's the best choice for reactivating the Bay Ridge Line. I love that this is going to be something similar to the London Overground, using Commuter-type stock, however, modified for higher capacity operations. I can't wait to see this service in operation, and I hope it doesn't take too long for this line to be completed.
Yoooo mystic
I agree, commuter rail would be the best
Backed on the overground commuter rail
It should use modified M8 railcars (New haven line E.M.Us). This way the service could interstate with Metro North and or Lirr, plus it opens up the possibility of extending to the Bronx in the future!
Aye, good to see you. I agree with conventional rail, it would require less track construction.
I agree, but Lightrail tbh does not sound like a bad idea overall. Its just more expensive.
The LIRR-style cars with more doors is absolutely the way to go with this, Especially with future Bronx expansion in mind! Bus Rapid Transit idea IS REDICULOUS!! Rails are already there, upgrade and use them!! Its already designed FRA, Keep it that way!! And Bonus, Freight Can still be run on it too!! 3 track with center express/freight would be perfect!
Exactly, buses will cost more in the long run. Trains are the way to go.
Not to mention there's already an abandoned Hunts Point station that would just need to be renovated as well as an abandoned Whitlock Ave station that could also be renovated.
REDICULOUS.
@@jacoblopez6046 Hunts Point is part of Penn Station Access
@@JBS319 I guess the MTA will never truly connect the BX to other boros.....
This should 100% be extended to the Bronx IF this ever gets approved and built by the city. It is an absolute necessity that it be extended to the Bronx. Conventional Rail would be the way to go for the IBX
The ONLY problem about extending to The Bronx, especially if they stupidly go for Light Rail or BRT, is Amtrak's busy Northeast Corridor whose very nitpicky over what runs over the Hell Gate Bridge. Though with Penn Acess being built, and if they are smart enough to do conventional rail, they MIGHT have a shot of getting IBX to Co-Op City.
Conventional rail means a new station to connect with the forthcoming east Bronx branch of the mnrr would have to be constructed somewhere around Northern Blvd and Broadway.
@@CaseysTrains some idiots believe Penn Station Access will be very expensive and that I could agree on, but still. What do you prefer. Non-Frequent Buses that run slower than the Z, or expensive but quick rides to your work place?
Metro North is being proposed to operate via hells gate bridge through co-op city. I don't necessarily know if this is better, but it at least give commuters westside access into Penn station. How they are going to fit all these services, I don't know.
In the feasibility plan they said they wouldn’t be able to bc penn access metro north (future line being designed), amtrack, and freight services dont leave any time for ibx services on the hells gate bridge.
As a civil engineer, now retired, who worked on the CT part of the MTA (New Haven Line) for decades, I would also vouch for the "Commuter Rail" version, mainly due to interoperability with the rest of the LIRR system & potential to tie into the Hell Gate Bridge for single seat service to the Bronx. The vehicles would have to be designed to run on multiple systems (DC 3rd rail & overhead AC catenary), but the New Haven Line M8's already are capable of running on 4 different systems so that is entirely do-able.
I originally thought it should be the same as existing NYC subway (ie "Heavy Rail Metro") but then realized this requires full separation from freight rail. Commuter Rail vehicles can operate with freight traffic on the same routes, a huge advantage for up front costs (no need to construct separated corridors).
Light Rail is usually good but, besides the need for separate corridors from freight, I'd hesitate to introduce an entirely new mode of transit to a heavily unionized & compartmentalized agency. That will just generate a whole slew of duplicated staff who can only work on 1 system or the other. For example, light rail overhead catenary is totally different than the 3rd rail or even the heavy rail catenary on the New Haven Line / Hell Gate Bridge. Thus requiring an entirely separate staff with separate training. Likewise for vehicle maintenance - light rail vehicles are somewhere between trains & buses, very unique. I'm sure all the transit unions are absolutely Salivating over a light rail option.
I won't even Dignify the busway option. Busways have their place, but not here. Use them in outer, less dense corridors.
Conventional Rail is only definite option incase of a possible future expansion to The Bronx and connections to other LIRR Branches. LRT & BRT gets rid of that possibility.
Light Rail is still a good option but is really only needed if they ever plan to extend the line on city streets or extend to Laguardia Airport as one of the alternatives.
Bus Rapid Transit shouldn't be considered since the tracks are already there and constructing roads & new viaduct is a waste of money. But if it's truly the most flexible and other bus routes can use it to speed up time, so be it.
I absolutely agree with you on everything you said. Conventional rail has the most amount of possibilities
To add to that, the LRT option would probably _not_ preclude some level of BRT (more specifically, the ROW-sharing aspect).
"busfanner" dropped on head as child yeah yeah
The people have spoken MTA. Conventional Rail is the smartest way to go on this project.
That won't work. Using a conventional rail like the Lirr and metro north for the ibx is too large and too heavy! Plus, it's difficult to make sharp turns. Light rail is a better option.
Here's my thoughts on the Interborough Express:
- Conventional rail is without a doubt the best option for the proposed IBX since it would not really require that much rebuilding other than the construction of stations and reconstruction of the tracks in some places. If the IBX ends up with dedicated railcars, they should be in similar dimensions to the New York City Subway's B Division cars so they can easily be transferred to surrounding yards if need be, although dedicated yards for the IBX will be constructed for sure.
- Light rail is also a great option for mostly the same reasons, though it will certainly be less expensive than conventional rail. Doesn't mean it's the better choice however. If light rail is chosen, I hope the trams stay off the streets, we already have enough traffic these days.
- Buses is a hell no. While it is indeed the most flexible option compared to both rail types, all I see is cars sneaking onto the dedicated bus lanes at all hours, no matter how many cops are utilized to keep them out.
Ok
@@mocklin74 ok
Subway rolling stock is out of the question thanks to the loading gauge being too narrow, along with possible violations of FRA regulations. Also, the freight situation could lead to the use of well cars, which are too wide to comfortably handle third rail.
Having said that, it's not as if the rolling stock for this _needs_ to be incompatible with anything else. After all, we also have railroads that run to the north and east.
@@sonicboy678 true but I said that just in case the MTA decides to cut costs or connect the IBX to the subway system if they end up running it
@@yuuycockdemnations69420 That decision will depend on if there's going to be grade crossings. Each proposed transportation option (Commuter Rail, Light Rail, and Bus) infer that there's going to be grade crossings, which means Subway B Division stock in passenger service would be out of the question.
I would envision something similar to Tokyo's handling of rolling stock (the standard gauge stock, not the Japanese gauge stock). Consider too, overhead pantograph could be a viable option for electrification.
Conventional Rail is my top pick. Hopefully in the future they would consider an extension to LGA or The Bronx or even both. One route going to LGA and the other going to the Bronx.
Conventional Rail is 100% the best way to go. The tracks for it are already in place and it will be easy to connect to the Bronx later on. Not to mention the most capacity. It would also feel a lot more integrated with the rest of the system despite it being different as it would be heavy rail rolling stock and have similar frequencies. Light rail is okay, but would have less of a capacity and new tracks would have to be added to a place already with tracks, not to mention less capacity. Conventional Rail is the way. Just make sure it's a free connection and is integrated with the existing system
Using conventional rail is not the best way to use for interborough express. Light Rail is the best option.
Conventional rail is the way to go, great idea as I commute from Astoria to Brooklyn everyday, so I know its needed!
Agreed!
This project has been LONG needed in the city and absolutely shouldn't be anything but conventional rail of these three options. We need to consider the future and potential ease of expansion to both the Bronx and Staten Island absolutely *have* to be on the table.
Conventional rail with trains modeled after and performing like subway rolling stock is an excellent start, but we also need proper single swipe fare integration. Rides can't be overpriced or overcomplicated with things like tickets or MNRR/LIRR pricing. In order to see the highest possible usage potential for this project, you *have* to make sure the users who would benefit the most from this see it as a strong option contemporary with the rest of the NYC subway system especially since this service is already predominantly running through some of the poorest neighborhoods in Brooklyn. You can also aid in adoption of this service by making it have easily understood designations alongside the original subway network (give it an "X" bullet and make it visible on future subway maps).
As for the other options... Throw that bus rapid transit idea out immediately. It's easy to say in a video like this how it'd be flexible and "easy" to implement but it's just begging for people who don't know any better to turn in on this new "exclusive" lane and cause havoc alongside squandering the full potential of a new rail alignment. Light rail is cute, and probably would get attention for the novelty, but this is a once in a generation chance to make something that really addresses a unique issue with modern NYC public transportation while possessing tons of potential to build off of. Let's not go with novelty for novelty's sake here.
I'd love to see this line follow Victory Boulevard in the future.
Definitely go for the conventional rail. Fastest and most reliable option, and no need for extra tracks. BRT just seems ridiculous in this scenario, you literally have tracks already. As many others have said, this should be fully integrated with the subway system with free transfers and metrocard compatible. I use metro north regularly and like their fare system well enough, but it certainly doesn't beat metrocard/OMNY.
After watching the town hall, I gotta say I'm skeptical that the light rail option could be faster than the conventional rail option when you have so many at-grade crossings. In practical operation in NYC, you're going to have issues at the grade crossings. Conventional rail seems much more resilient to prevent interruptions.
The light rail option being fastest is BS
I love this. We are in DIRE need of expansion in our transit system & this looks excellent. I’d prefer it to be a Subway-like thing, commuter or light rail. I just wish this was going to The Bronx like it was supposed to when it was the Triboro RX. It still something needed and very worthwhile & I hope it happens very very soon.
Well that is not to say whatever it ends up being can't be very subway like. If you want good comparisons, for a Commuter rail option the London Overground is a really good example of something like the IBX but on a much larger scale, spanning through the outer boroughs of London with frequent departures and interconnectivity with the Underground.
For light rail, a good comparison would be Stockholm's "Tvärbanan" LRT, whose trams are actually those used in the rendering. That line has been known to carry as many as 108.000 passengers per day and goes circumferentially around Stockholm connecting its various metro and commuter rail lines, serving the same purpose as the IBX proposals
The only one that doesn't really match a subway standard and which feels like a cheapskates solution is of course the BRT, which would likely be too low capacity and unfit for growth.
Personally, I'm hoping they bring it to the Bronx and Staten Island after this succeeds. But we'll see! :)
@@leftylion5291 i hope so too! That would be amazing!
Honestly stuff like this has a lottt of potential, it can be a better way to include communities without building long subway lines and making a new form of commuter express, like what the other person said there can be new lines or extensions to the bronx and new jersey which can be a replacement for busses and trains.
As a Brooklynite who frequents Flushing Queens and hates the drive as well as the parking situation there, this gives me hope for commuting again. Gas prices are getting crazy so this will be a great primary way of getting between Bk and Queens.
Conventional rail is THE only way the Interborough Express will reactivate the LIRR Bay Ridge Branch due to overall historical significance. Light rail & bus rapid transit will be too slow &/or too few riders.
I think that conventional rail is the perfect choice. As for the trains, I suggest to make them all 10-car trains with 10-car stations. Have 2 tracks on each side of the station. And finally, have the new IBX line to be extended to go to the Bronx, because they want to experience what this new line would be like. It's a wonderful new wave of the future in New York!
You never know man. Maybe they might, maybe they might not. Only time can tell.
@@superbrownsheep3777 I feel like it just makes the most sense for them to commit to this project. If they don't then I would be surprised.
I think conventional rail would be the best option. The tracks are already in place, and if that isn’t enough, the space for the tracks are already there. This will be huge for those living in Flatlands and SW Canarsie, as only bus service operates through this area.
Conventional rail is definitely the best option in terms of capacity and speed. The population density of the neighborhoods that IBX will serve, especially Jackson Heights and Bay Ridge, will also justify using a commuter rail like option, hopefully one that accepts MetroCard. I wouldn't mind light rail either, but definitely no BRT.
I can say for sure without a doubt this will NOT accept MetroCard. By the time it opens, neither will the subway.
For the love of God please just use conventional rail. Don’t screw this up MTA, South Brooklyn needs transit
I'm glad the MTA will be using portions of freight right-of-ways for this project. They should go for the conventional rail option and design it similar to CTA's Orange Line, which runs alongside unused freight lines to Chicago's Midway Airport.
I'm not from Brooklyn or Queens, but I'm right next to 'em.
Conventional Rail is the best way to go. Specifically, the proposed LIRR-style regional rail stock.
You wouldn't have to waste money on building over-rail structures for light rail or bus rapid transit. Just make the rolling stock and the stations, and there you are. Freight can still run.
Light Rail would require new tracks, and BRT? Really? Why waste a whole bunch of taxpayer money to build a road above very fine tracks?
Plus, as others have stated, there's the potential of expanding the line to the Bronx via Randalls and Wards, or, what I propose, making a separate branch that's under the same brand, with the two branches connected via the proposed LIRR Sunnyside Station (Please get to that after East Side Access).
One issue, for me, is that the shorthand name should be different. IBX sounds too similar to IBS.
Maybe the InterBo?
Best way to go is conventional rail. This could mean better connections to other lines
Conventional rail is too heavy. This is not going to work for the Interborough Express.
To everyone saying conventional rail is the answer: make sure to attend hearings! Get your voice heard
I am so excited in general! I live pretty close to the Ave. J stop on the Q. This would really help people connect more with friends and family. There are a bunch of people and places I’d visit if there were a better transportation option that didn’t involve Manhattan.
It would actually connect to the Avenue H but hey one stop on the Q. (The freight tracks this line follows actually crosses under Avenue H station at the Coney Island End.)
@@CaseysTrains the station would be 1.5 blocks from J, so still very walkable. I grew up between K&L so the J and M stops were both really close. Now I live in Queens and getting back to Brooklyn to visit friends and family is a pain in the butt. I need this line yesterday!
Long overdue!....the infamous 2hr queens to brooklyn commutes would be finally a thing of the past
Conventional rail seems to be the best option especially when you consider public perception is important and conventional rail tends to be what people perceive the best.
I don't even live in NYC anymore but I'm with the majority on this: conventional rail is the way to go.
Agree that conventional rail is best given the ridership volume and high frequency need. Would be really useful to have several north-south parallel lines running to connect college point and whitestone in queens to jfk and beyond (e.g. Long Beach) as well as several north-south lines to connect Astoria and Jackson Heights to Sheepshead Bay/National Recreation Area via and adjacent to East New York. Please, please make this happen in this decade.
Also, extending to a Bronx-Queens connection
Conventional rail/subway is the way to go as it has right of way and a connection to the Bronx is needed. It makes the most sense allowing possible connections to the other subway lines without needing “new” equipment. The busses are the worst idea. We have the silver line in Boston and once it interacts with street traffic it gets bogged down the green line as well for that matter.
Please add platform barriers if you are going with Conventional Rail or Light Rail.
Light rail sound like a great idea bc it's the shortest end to end time and has the most weekday riders.
They lied to our faces. Light rail crosses streets and runs slower, and they think commuter rail will have lower ridership, but if the experience is like a subway, it will be the same level
Former Mayor DeBlasio made a proposal on a light rail that connects the Crosstown line to Astoria this was long before this.
The conventional rail card is the best option for the new route. For future provisions, it should be extended to St. George in Staten Island for a fast connection to Brooklyn and to ease out traffic on the Verrazano bridge
Buses are a non-starter. Hugely expensive to construct (and maintain) miles of elevated roadway, and a platoon of extra employees to drive them all. Conventional rail makes the most sense: the tracks are already there; all you need are the cars and the stations. Station entry with the existing fare system is trivial to implement, and passengers would hardly notice the difference from the other subway system lines. (I'd love to just transfer at the 36th St. R station!)
The existing tracks are strictly freight-only; mixing freight and passenger service would cost a fortune. So new tracks (but not new RoR) are needed for every option.
@@JohnCowan-rv7ne Freight can move late at night - it's not in a hurry. (Most of what I see being moved is carloads of scrap.)
Conventional Rail is the way to go. Bus and light rail would be a mess at street level.
I hear a lot of people mention the Bronx being left out. A fair temporary compromise could be a station that connects the Northern Blvd M/R lines to the Metro Norths Bronx expansion that will be traveling directly above it. It's already going from Coop City, Morris Park, Parkchester, and Hunts Point across the Hells Gate Bridge through the Sunnyside Yards to Penn Station. A free transfer stop at Northern Blvd would fully integrate the Bronx into a non-Manhattan-centric system.
Also extend it to LaGuardia Airport from Jackson Heights, with plans to spur off to the Bronx in the near future.
Maybe even a station between Queens Blvd and 51st Ave to capitalize of the two potential Queens LIRR stops after the split going to Woodside.
Ultimate goal should be completing the Owls Head Park Tunnel at the end of the line in Brooklyn and connecting Brooklyn to Staten Island and ultimately opening up a second freight corridor to the mainland US.
I have to disagree with you on the Owl's Head Park tunnel. That should only connect the subway system to the Staten Island Railway.
@@DTD110865 a second dual use Freight corridor would remove thousands of trucks from the roads and highways daily.
One railcar can hold the equivalent of roughly four truck loads. Additionally, one train can haul the equivalent of over 400 trucks. 10 trains a day can take 4000 trucks off the road.
@@victorhernandez1857 I understand that. But you'd have to rebuild the existing tunnel to handle both the subway line and the freight line. Also, you'd have to restore the SIR North Shore Line strictly for freight, and too much of that line is being washed into Kill Van Kull.
Cross Harbor Freight is a big part of this project as well. As the line is constructed, clearances on the entire corridor will be made to allow for double stack intermodal freight trains.
Build it yesterday, using heavy-/conventional rail, closer to the Subway than MetroNorth/LIRR in terms of doors and seating arrangement.
Conventional rail is the way to go👍🏾 maybe you can connect to the LIRR and future Metro North Railroad if they going to the Bronx
The future metro north should run from Long Island city queens or anywhere from northern queens such as bayside to go into the Bronx and the Hudson valley without having to go from grand central
BRT and LRT are way too low capacity for this line, conventional rail is the way to go
Actually LRT ain't too bad of an idea imo. Bus Rapid Transit is ridiculous.
@@aqua2poweros699 no LRT is a pretty bad idea. The capacity definitely would be less than conventional rail. Also less space efficient, more expensive, and slower. Whoever made this video got their information wrong.
@@losh330 Obviously Conventional Rail is the best option but I'm just saying
Conventional rail a la Overground is absolutely the right choice.
If you do bus rapid transit, I would imagine other motorists or bicyclist will try to take advantage and use parts of the line.
Which is why that idea is a full blown👎
Everyone wants rail but which style of rail is the question... and cheapest
@@MarloSoBalJr It should use modified M8 railcars (New haven line E.M.Us). This way the service could interstate with Metro North and or Lirr, plus it opens up the possibility of extending to the Bronx in the future!
@@jamallhayden2512 and if you really wanna be revolutionary then equip the train fleet with some sort of battery operation so you wouldn’t have to deal with electrifying the Bay Ridge branch and you would then recharge trains with existing third rail/catenary power in Queens.
Order more R211S for this. They are FRA-compliant and can run alongside freight trains. They can also be stored & maintained at the Coney Island Shops.
The plan is not to use subway-style cars for this, but rather cars similar to what the LIRR and Metro-North have.
A new yard will be built regardless as existing yards cannot handle additional train storage needs.
@@TheRailLeaguer It should be with subways. Yards are currently storing old rolling stock that has yet to be scrapped. A small portion of the rolling stock on the subway system is completely redundant to say the least. Space can easily be made. the line literally passes the Fresh pond yard and Jamaica.
@@banksrail The subway option was ruled out to have the line compliant with FRA regulations.
In addition, the subway option would also need to provide both a physical separation and a sufficient right of way width for clearance. Think of the DC MetroRail. Meanwhile you can use conventional rail without the need to physically separate the whole thing.
The subway system also has no redundant fleet, and some yards literally have no space to expand. Besides, a new yard would have to be constructed anyway.
@@TheRailLeaguer Literally no Redundant Fleet??? The R32 and R42 are literally the definition of redundancy. The MTA just kept them around in case the R179 failed. It’s literally redundant. The MTA doesn’t keep “THE EXACT AMOUNT OF TRAINS NEEDED.” That’s unheard of and quite comical if they did. I’m sure they could spare 8 four or five car sets to be used on the IBX.
@@banksrail Yes there’s no redundant fleet. The R32 and R42 cars are officially retired and a good majority of them are on work train service and destined for scrap. Those cars are also way too old.
IBX also requires more train sets than you state, especially for frequencies, so the money would be better spent doing conventional rail, and buying brand new commuter rail-like cars with subway style layouts operating very frequently.
So, is it official?... If true, this is gonna be a game changer for the Brooklyn & Queens and hopefully Bronx
Amazing video as well. Very detailed & professional. Like everyone here, conventional/suburban rail would be as effective & cheaper to get on track
I like the train option the most
The MTA is underselling this project. They need to go with the best available technology: a lightweight, high-frequency, automated metro with platform screen doors, identical to Sydney Metro or Montreal REM. This is an orbital rail line that will be around for more than a century. We can't mess around by cementing crewed trains and overbearing FRA compliance into that legacy. It's going to have to reliably operate at minimum possible headways for most of the day, and then add cars to increase capacity over its lifetime. Just spitballing, I'd say the current ridership projections are conservative, and that actual ridership could quickly exceed 20k riders per hour in the peaks. There's no way that heavy M-8's could accomplish that.
If you make it an automated light metro, you would have to do a SIGNIFICANT amount of construction to separate the line from the freight corridor while remaining grade separated. The construction costs for that would be utterly obscene. And capacity is all how they spec the trains. M8s and M9s can get up and go in a hurry and with a moving-block signaling system, trains can run close together.
@@JBS319 if the goal was to create a transit line with minimal effort or impact, then we'd be better off running DMUs on the existing tracks with ground-level platforms and on-board fare collection. But minimal effort is not the goal; maximizing capacity and speed is the goal. The corridor will still require extensive modification regardless of which mode they choose, so we'd mind as well get the most bang for our buck. A light rail line with grade crossings would be at capacity on day 1 and have debilitating delays. An expansion of the LIRR would burden the new line with all the constraints inherent to FRA compliant rolling stock, despite never sharing track with other LIRR lines. Even an expansion of the Subway using CBTC would be more ideal. Only an automated metro could sustain headways shorter than 2 minutes with minimal delays. We're not only building for today's riders, but for the millions more who will come to use this line over the next century. Big-budget, high quality infrastructure moving the theoretical maximum possible number of riders is the only feasible solution. Anything less would be a disservice to Brooklyn and Queens.
@@JBS319 Sydney could've built their new Metro line as an extension of the current commuter rail network. But instead they chose a rolling stock that abandoned all the constraints of that legacy technology and instead focused on maximizing capacity with obscenely short headways using full automation. They should serve as a model for New York.
@@JBS319 Los Angeles is currently envisioning a metro line through the Sepulveda Pass that would use technology almost identical to what's being built in Sydney. Why can't New York have nice things, too?
@@botmes4044 none of the services you brought up. Not Sydney, not Montreal REM, not LA Metro Sepulveda, have to share a physically constrained corridor with a freight railway that is set to get SIGNIFICANTLY busier with the Cross Harbor Freight Tunnel. Removing all FRA regulated freight traffic from the line is a non-starter as the parallel CHFT project is supposed to significantly reduce truck traffic in and around New York City, something that is just as important as passenger connectivity. THEREFORE: automated light metro would entail extreme engineering challenges. ALM would need to be fully grade separated from both the rail corridor and the streets, which means either a very high elevated line or a subway tunnel. This is a rail line that we needed yesterday and the complications that ALM brings to construction would set the project back a decade and potentially increase the cost by a factor of 10.
The first option is the answer. A train that has more doors then the LIRR, sharing and reconstructing the existed fright rail, and plans (if proposed) to extend the IBX train to the Bronx. Also they should get battery powered trains for the line just like LIRR are planning with that.
For battery powered trains, you still need overhead wires to charge the batteries. It's more cost-efficient and better for the environment to just use electric trains that draw power from the overhead wire all the time.
Hell no, never battery trains. Why replace such an efficient system with an inefficient and dangerous one?
@@sygneg7348 No hate but, LIRR is planning to get battery electric multiple unit (BEMU) trains in the future. Also, if they decided to to extend the IBX to the Bronx, the trains would need to have catenary wires or be battery electric powered. So if you trying to say the IBX trains should run on third rail and catenary wires, ok that's a good idea too, because extending the line to the Bronx, have already catenary wires for Amtrak and future New Haven line proposal.
@@omar.w939 LIRR is planning to get battery electric trains for the non-electrified routes in eastern Long Island. And the battery electric trains would also operate on the third rail in electrified territory. Full battery electric is a poor idea unless they are sharing tracks with freight.
Please go for conventional rail! Amazing project. Circumferential routes are what makes a transit system truly great, like Berlin or Tokyo
Everyone picked conventional rail
I'm all for it. I'm working in Brooklyn now and it's taking me an hour and half to and from
why did they delete this yesterday and reupload this
Wow!! Thank you! You recognized the public's actual needs vs the real estate industry. I hope this can function by end of this decade or better yet...SOONER
As a person who lives near that area, there should definitely be a stop near Linden Boulevard including a possible connection to the L train
I’m glad there’s going to be a rail in Bay Ridge.
I love this idea. Connecting the two boroughs and making trips shorter and easier is the way to go.
If you go with the bus option, it will turn into a regular highway within the decade. Brooklyn and Queens finally have the opportunity to have a dedicated train line. Don't waste it. Commuter rail is the way to go.
Awesome for the Proposed Express to be happening in the MTA. : )
As a new LIRR rail fan this is gonna be so cool! Can’t wait
Remember growing up so close to these tracks. Can't wait to see what happens. Conventional rail is the best approach.
Convential all the way! And since you used the Class 150 as the model for conventional rail, I must add, a Class 150 in the us would be pretty cool
Yeah i noticed that too, never gonna happen tho xD. But maybe they'll use the stadler flirt trains or something like the talent trains
Great job, mta.
So excited for this! Let's make it happen.
Don't cheap out! Go for conventional rail with full grade separation/no level crossings. You have a golden opportunity here. I live in London, so I have no stake in this, but take a look at the London Overground for inspiration. This is a bit of a long comment but the things that will make this a success are:
- Fast, reliable and frequent service. Needs to be a train _at least_ every 15-mins, increasing to subway frequencies in the future. Anything less will kill rather than induce demand.
- Integrated with subway ticketing systems
- Connections to other services - where it isn't possible to provide an in-station connection, allow passengers to connect to subway services or trains that are e.g. a 200m walk away without charging them for a second journey. Add as many connections as possible.
- Lifts, step free access and level boarding of trains from the start (one of the failings of London Overground, IMO)
- Clean and modern trains
- Leave room for it be extended to Staten Island and further into Queens in the future
With Overground, TFL (London's MTA equivalent) has completely transformed outer-London travel by taking over conventional rail lines that either had infrequent/unreliable passenger service or in some cases had closed decades earlier. They upgraded and rebuilt stations, put in new trains and provided regular, frequent services and provided an outer-London orbital service. It's been transformational. Passenger numbers have gone through the roof.
Probably most similar to the IBX, they completely transformed the Gospel Oak to Barking line. It was a line running through outer areas that was mainly used by freight but had a slow diesel passenger service that was super infrequent and unreliable. It was nearly closed several times. Over the years TFL electrified it, renovated stations, increased the length of the trains from 2 cars to 4 and increased the frequency from every 30mins to every 15mins. It's been such a success that it can't keep up with demand.
The East London Line extension took over a rundown minor tube line and extended it over disused rail viaducts and existing conventional rail corridors to made a subway-like service on the cheap. It created so much demand that within a few years they had to extend the trains from four to five cars, and it's still super busy at all times of the day.
If they want the least-expensive option to build, it's gonna end up being conventional rail. So "cheaping out" and going for BRT would cost a huge amount more than just using the existing line.
this will be completed in 2050, if not 2100. good luck getting something like this done in NYC. wont be holding my breath
In a lot of American cities, the total population and population density makes conventional rail not the best option. New York absolutely has the justification for the conventional rail though. I hope they extend it to The Bronx too!
The conventional rail option should use modified M8 railcars (New haven line E.M.Us). This way the service could interstate with Metro North and or Lirr, plus it opens up the possibility of extending to the Bronx in the future!
One of the best ideas for new york in a long time, increase ferry service too please!!!
This is absolutely the way to go and very convenient to !
Go conventional rail - the future needs of the system can always be met better that way, and it’s an investment in the city for the future!
I’ve been hearing about this idea for a long time so I’m glad to see the MTA put out a video. Conventional rail seems like the best. At all costs please avoid busses. Busses just seems like such a waste of infrastructure just to build another road. Hopefully this project gets approved, I don’t really see any downsides to its construction.
The B1M channel did a video about this. Its an interesting project. Perhaps from Bay Ridge through a tunnel to
Staten Island and New Jersey? Of course The Bronx should be the next phase. But after yesterday, get the guns off MTA!
This is a fantastic idea. At some point, we should consider extending it to the Bronx as well.
Conventional Rail! Hands down!
Great. When does ESA start? Schedules? Required yard and track expansion to support peak hour services?
The final stop in Queens should be 74th Street Jackson Heights not 69th Fisk. If the MTA is spending the money build the 3 block tunnel and allow easy transfer to the E,F,R,M and the 7. It would also allow easy transfer to the bus lines terminating at the Jackson Heights (the Victor Moore bus station).
Nah. Plus, for the people who are too lazy to walk 3 blocks to 74st, just take the Q32 or maybe even the Q70 if they are going to make a stop over there.
I like the proposal and think conventional rail would be the best route. Definitely look into stations near existing bus or subway routes so people can make connections as smoothly as possible.
I live on this proposed rail and can't WAIT for the antiquated, insanely loud dumpster freight trains to be replaced. Conventional rail makes the most sense, though the quieter the better! What a huge quality of life upgrade this will be for everyone in NYC.
This sounds great. I always wondered why they never did this.
As someone who lives in the atl metro area I must say I’m jealous of NYC and it’s willingness to expand rail in its city. That’s something we need here in Atlanta desperately
Great news! Have it built!
@MTAinfo Conventional rail would be the best way to go using older train cars from the 6/2/B/D lines making way for newer proposed train cars for those respective lines. It would make sense to expand into the Bronx after completion with the Hells gate bridge section being the most challenging part due to 3 tracks but I assume freight trains can run in the middle track? A "Randall's Island station" could be implemented somewhere on the island, "Hunts Point Ave" already has an abandoned station which could be renovated as well as "Whitlock Ave", "Parkchester station" could be on the Bronxdale Ave and E. Tremont Ave Intersection, a "Eastchester Rd station" could be right by Calvary Hospital and Einstein Hospital, "Pelham Parkway South station" or simply "Pelham Bay Park station" which is right by the PSAC 2 building and could connect to the BX12 with a possible next last stop being "Co-Op City South" (not sure where).
100% should do this 👍🏻
The plan for rolling stock is FRA-complaint railcars similar to commuter rail cars built from scratch rather than inheriting older non-FRA subway cars and undergoing expensive refits for FRA compliance.
However do note that the interior layout will be similar to the subway cars.
We could see something like the London Overground or the recent Elizabeth Line with the conventional rail. Out of all the three options, the conventional rail would be best to run on the preexisting freight tracks just because it offers the most capacity of passengers out of the others and could be done with 10 railcars
Make it a LIRR Branch. It allows for connectivity to the LIRR network and subways/buses. It would work best when OMNY is fully introduced. Not to mention it would be more comfortable than the subway.
no. LIRR is fine as it is plus it is already getting the East Side Access Extension in December.
For everyone who is asking why the Interborough Express isn’t using the subway method, this is why:
Why aren’t you considering regular subway service for the line?
Due to regulatory separation requirements between freight traffic and heavy rail, using subway train cars on the line would require additional width along the corridor, leading to multiple bridge reconstruction, the potential for significant property acquisition and much higher construction costs.
However, the conventional rail alternative would feature vehicles resembling those currently used within the subway system, including more doors than a conventional rail car and subway-like seating configurations. We also expect all three modes under consideration to operate at intervals similar to subway service, with up to five-minute frequencies during peak hours.
READ IT. GOD GAVE YOU TWO EYES AND A BRAIN FOR A REASON!!!!
Yeah, because the way the tracks are they can;t use the R-type cars that the subway uses.
An FRA waiver should be considered if necessary, to permit subway-type cars.
@@johnpegram8889 I think it might be too much of a hassle to get through, especially for an active freight line. If it were easier to get, then everyone would be getting waivers. Besides, getting an FRA waiver (something that can bog down the construction time) is not the plan. Conventional rail can honestly do a much better job without the paperwork,
This is great to see.
I love it! and conventional rail is definitely the way to go
Love this idea! Would make my commute from Staten Island to Sheepshead Bay much easier.
This needs to go to the northeast Bronx and even New Rochelle!
Why would you build an elevated light rail running on top of train tracks when you can just upgrade said train tracks that the MTA already owns and run the IBX on that? Convention rail is the only sensible option.
Facts 💯
It is about money. That is the only reason why the Light Rail & Bus Rapid Transit options are there. We all know that Conventional Rail is the best option.
This is the kind of city planning and zoning that I am talking about, this is awesome! Personal thoughts, that it should not take years to send out drones and LiDAR equipment to scan the proposed areas, including existing transit routes and population density. The two level approach is probably most appropriate but I would recommend, it should be designed/built in a way where it’s mostly enclosed to allow for winter hassle free travel and entertainment throughout the route. As a modern facilities that not only services residents travel but a visitors destination adventure, which mean the neighborhood restaurants, sporting facilities, supermarkets and movie theaters should be part of each station’s consideration.
The MTA has so much opportunity to make 3 new subway lines in queens and brooklyn. A minimum of 3. All based on older plans and unused infrastructure which people forgot about
I think conventional rail is best choice since it can utilize existing tracks and potentially have. More capacity. It also opens possiable. Extensions to the Bronx if. Necessary.
I really hope this is conventional rail and uses the same fare system as the main subway network
Conventional rail for the most interoperability (#MetroNorth, #Amtrak, etc.), FRA compliance, and feasibility for additional future provisions beyond the scope of the project. Also, electrification can be AC like #Amtrak's #NEC and #MTA's #MetroNorth for consistency, minimal maintenance due to the substation spacing distance with AC being longer compared to DC, and safety.
Hopefully the day arrives when the Bronx connects to Queens. Would make the trip way easier. Also conventional rail is the only right answer. Hopefully is sooner than later.
I’m curious how the terminus near Roosevelt Avenue would work… on Google Earth you can see just how close, but still maybe a little too far the freight tracks are to the western end of the 7 station… so would it be an in system transfer or a walking transfer (the dashed lines on the map like between 63rd-Lex and 59th Street)?
I hope light rail is chosen. Here in NJ, the HBLR makes traveling so easy compared to getting on the PATH or subway.
It would be amazing if they could also connect the IBX line with another long Island railroad freight line that meets with the proposed line in ridgewood glendale area ... that would provide direct connection to the JFK airtrain this line already connects directly with the sutphin parson archer station an already existing station that connects LIRR , Airtrain, J , E, Z lines ... it would cut commutes to the airport for thousands or airport workers. And give them the option to forego driving and take a cleaner mode of transport.
So exciting!
I think conventional rail (like the London Overground) would be the best choice, as the capacity will be needed when riders increase over time
The 2nd best option is light rail (like the Purple Line in the DC area); it can handle fewer passengers, however, so it might not be enough for NYC
I don't think BRT can handle future growth on the line, so that is the least preferred option
If we do indeed re-activate the Bay Ridge Branch, conventional rail is the best option. Would provide the best capacity and speed imo during rush hours